December 2022 - cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

Gramps brother from another planet
by professor rat 01 Jan '23

01 Jan '23

Twitcher Ali, would make a good PR man for the second coming >> Wren was at the Ellipse. A One, really appreciate you pointing out this text. This is helpful. I’s also helpful that | use the word “walking,” and you characterized it as marching before you read out the quote. And my understanding is informed by a lot of things, you know, my race, my faith, my profession. And professionally, I’m sorry to bore you guys, but professionally, in my interactions with observing Secret Service over the years, observing Democrat nominees and Republican nominees and Presidents is, something like thats just not allowed to happen But I do know that we live in interesting times. ~ And if it were to happen, I would like an advance notice. And, again, I’m sorry. I saw the faces, but I’m sorry if my answer is weird. Trying to be helpful. Q So based upon this text, you were asking Ms. Wren, because you presume she would know if President Trump was going to walk to the Capitol? A She was physically at The Ellipse, and I wasn’t. << ( From Empty Wheel, agent Starling )

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Cryptocurrency: Newbs Analyze
by grarpamp 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

Wondering why BTC is still red when it’s purpose of existence was exactly what’s happening yet again (self.Bitcoin) submitted 13 hours ago by 91TB firm believer here. Since it’s birth rightfully happened as a consequence of the financial crisis, I don’t get why BTC is still moving like the common market. I know the whole world is on fire with COVID, wars and governments printing money like there’s no tomorrow. But when I see the stock market crashing I always have the hope that BTC moves independently since it’s a whole different ball game. I mean everyone who understands Bitcoin (compared to many here I’m still a rookie) wouldn’t be so stupid to gamble or yet short it. I know everyone got their shy which would make you sell some. But unlikely during a bear. So it would be nice to enlighten me if it’s still a question of adoption or what has to happen for the baby to become an adult. PS: DCA IS THE WAY 312 comments share save hide report all 312 comments sorted by: best Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! [–]Micksar 260 points 12 hours ago Because majority of people that buy Bitcoin see it as an investment vehicle (like a stock). I’d say there’s a small number of folks who actually see it as “converting my fiat into Bitcoin”. They are buying something with the intention of selling it for more money. So it moves with the market because that’s how people treat it. When they think it’s going up, they put money in. When they are worried it’ll go down, they take money out. And the stock market and interest rates are all indicators that people use for “the economic forecast”. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Shaved_Wookie 24 points 8 hours ago There's also the issue that all the derivatives have popped up for BTC, along with many of the issues associated with the presence of those vehicles in conventional markets. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Future-Spirit7874redditor for 6 weeks 18 points 7 hours ago Yes, I hate that they exist. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]LagunaJaguar[🍰] 9 points 5 hours ago Me when I go out in public. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Since1785 6 points 4 hours ago Currency based derivatives exist for pretty much all major currency pairs, so it would only make sense that if BTC's primary goal was to be a digital currency that these same derivatives markets also exist for BTC. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Shaved_Wookie 1 point an hour ago It's predictable, but no less detrimental to the reason BTC was conceived - the derivatives sacrifice (and often undermine) the bulk of the benefit of BTC, bringing it more in line with the currencies it tried to improve upon. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]StoneHammers 4 points 4 hours ago This is the real answer just look at FTX they created probably billions worth of paper bitcoins. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Daddio_87 37 points 11 hours ago I agree 💯💯 💯 Once people start seeing Bitcoin as more than just an investment, I think this will be when nearly everyone jumps on-board and starts using it in one form or another. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]suphater 15 points 8 hours ago ...use it for what? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]itsthehappyman 50 points 8 hours ago I could give you 100s of uses, here's one, My business receives money from overseas, it has to go to a bank (which has nothing to do with what we sell or create) that sets its own unfair exchange rate and takes a fee for the exchange before it passes it on to our business, It costs us thousands of £££ a year, and Bitcoin fixes this. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] 8 hours ago* [deleted] continue this thread [–]Electronic1000 6 points 7 hours ago This is why we need BTC permalink embed save parent report give award reply continue this thread [–]guy_fuckesredditor for 3 months 2 points 4 hours ago I think one problem currently is Bitcoin has little stability and a lot of businesses don't want something that could wildly fluctuate from day to day permalink embed save parent report give award reply [+]BitcoinTulipredditor for 1 week -6 points 7 hours ago Bank has nothing to do with what you create but it enables you to get money for the goods you sell. If you don't trust banks you can always send your money in a postal envelope :) permalink embed save parent report give award reply continue this thread [–]4reddityo [score hidden] 49 minutes ago “the answer” permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]StunningWar972 8 points 8 hours ago As a medium of exchange for products and services maybe? (Like to buy a house, car or hire an expensive B2B service idk) permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]tenthousandbottles 5 points 8 hours ago I thought Bitcoin isn't for payments anymore, people here generally say it's for storing value. I guess because the fees can get pretty high permalink embed save parent report give award reply continue this thread [–]Daddio_87 2 points 8 hours ago Daily transactions once more merchants are using it in their business structure. Store of value for sure. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]blackthrowawaynj 0 points 5 hours ago world isnt using BTC as its intended use and its instead being used for price speculation. So it tracks other traditional investments pretty well. I have a 100 Trillion dollar Zimbabwe note that's worth nothing. If you are in the west with a semi solid monetary policy that has limited inflation Bitcoin use case may not be apparent but if you are in one of these hyperinflation countries even with the price drop owning Bitcoin is a lifesaver and a means of preserving some of your wealth permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Electronic1000 -1 points 7 hours ago Try thinking for yourself permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Sean4123 1 point 8 hours ago Collateral for low interest loans, potential trade across for other assets such as land and homes, and if needed, sold for fiat. It’s mostly used as a hedge against inflation and a store of value. Of course, the entire discussion on this thread is that the general public hasn’t flipped to that sentiment yet. If bitcoin succeeds it’ll likely see all the use cases above. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]pocketmonstar 2 points 6 hours ago How does one buy and use bitcoin if they want to “jump on board”? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Daddio_87 2 points 6 hours ago I suggest you use the Bitcoin newcomers guide that is pinned to the main page. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wds6fs/bitcoin_newcomers_faq_plea… permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Modna 1 point 3 hours ago Assuming the average person does start seeing Bitcoin as that, how would that even work in the long run? There is a finite amount of bitcoin possible. But there will always be more people, more hours worked, more wages, more businesses collecting payment. At some point the supply ends and we only have what is left (let along what has been lost forever in dead wallets). How could an economy work like that? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Cold-Change5060 2 points 6 hours ago Because majority of people that buy Bitcoin see it as an investment vehicle (like a stock). And they should. Most of it's price is speculation right now. If you aren't buying it for this reason you are making a mistake because you can't justify it's price without it. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CryptoBehemoth 1 point 2 hours ago I'm one of those people who are transfering their wealth with no intention of going back. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TDawgF 186 points 12 hours ago The problem is that most people still value BTC in fiat and use it for speculation to make more fiat. Until this changes BTC will largely continue to behave like a speculative asset. I personally think it will take a major financial crisis that causes everyone to loose faith in fiat to significantly change this dynamic. Which many people believe isn't so far away. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]LadyAnarki 53 points 12 hours ago Yes. And when people lose faith during a crisis in one fiat currency they usually move to another one that is already established in their mind (100 years of USD supremacy that we were dupped into). Bitcoin is still not considered a "currency" in most people's minds. Evolution takes time, changing your mindset takes time, becoming comfortable with new tech takes time. While time is linear on this plane of existence, we have to wait for the majority to catch up. The only thing we can do is keep teaching, explaining, and helping others to get to where we are mentally (understanding & believing that Bitcoin is a superior form of money based on its fundamentals) and physically (actually showing how to buy, transfer, hold, and control their own bitcoins). permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]dalahnar_kohlyn 3 points 6 hours ago To me, the bitcoin market is still very volatile. I mean look at how far it can fall in one day permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]LadyAnarki 0 points 6 hours ago Because it's attached to very volatile fiat currencies and legalcy financial machinations, yes. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TBo74 1 point 2 hours ago Lol well that’s not true…if it were, the “volatile fiat” would you know, be more volatile than bitcoin if it were the true reason. Bitcoins volatility comes from lower volume which means it’s easier to move the price, has nothing to do with other fiat or any of that mess smh permalink embed save parent report give award reply continue this thread [–]Wonderingbye 1 point 11 hours ago Welcome LadyAnarki, it’s nice to have you here permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]LadyAnarki 5 points 11 hours ago Haha thanks! Been here a lot more the past year. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Rich_Isle 13 points 10 hours ago Yeah…the only problem is if the fiat system collapses that basically means governments would collapse which means society collapses, which means we live in chaos. The idea of a smooth transition and realization of using BTC without massive upheaval is naive. If it does happen, sure our Bitcoin will be worth a lot (same with gold and other commodities) but you’re basically living in a post societal world that is completely different from what we currently live in today. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]EarthseedEquipment 5 points 8 hours ago Good luck sending and receiving Bitcoin without electricity permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]itsthehappyman 4 points 8 hours ago Or buying food, getting clean water, and heating your house. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]LastLivingSouls 17 points 11 hours ago Exactly. "Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent" - Keynes People need to understand what is going on here. All of the fiat believers who thought BTC was just a tech stock are being flushed out right now. While BTC was born out of a financial crisis similar to whats going on now, it has never been tested as an established alternative option in these conditions. I'm excited right now. Whether its 6 months or a few years, I think all of the speculative money is going to drain out which will drop the fiat value, allowing more true believers to exchange more of their dirty fiat, and the next stage will be true world wide acceptance. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Fosforus 11 points 11 hours ago Sure, though I think every bear market flushes out some speculators, and every bull market brings in some fresh ones. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]suphater 3 points 8 hours ago "This is good for crypto," they've said about every scam since mt gox. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Leading-Fail-7263 3 points 11 hours ago Yes. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Wide-Bend-6558 2 points 10 hours ago Will it ever change? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]michael-streeter -1 points 10 hours ago Good news: yes! Bad news: 30 years to fully realise the dream. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]itsthehappyman 1 point 8 hours ago Everything changes, the world is nothing like it was 20 years ago. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Mindless-Range-7764 3 points 11 hours ago People will not migrate to the new system until the old system fails. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheAspiringFarmer 3 points 9 hours ago and they are forced to do it, otherwise, forget it. we are creatures of habit who despise change on any scale. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]itsthehappyman 1 point 8 hours ago Took most of the world 5 years to adapt to the internet and less time to start using social media, change comes fast and swift. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheAspiringFarmer 1 point 8 hours ago well it was a shiny new thing with no alternative. unfortunately for BTC and the other cryptos, fiat is a great alternative that just keeps ticking. and it's not gonna stop any time soon. permalink embed save parent report give award reply continue this thread [–]itsthehappyman 2 points 8 hours ago False, people doubted email and thought letters and fax machines would live for ever permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]GuNDaL 1 point 8 hours ago We already have entire countries moving to it. El Salvador was first and other have followed. It's coming! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]insanemetal187 2 points 8 hours ago It took a crash to create bitcoin. It's going to take another crash for people to see what it's for. We're screaming the end is near and until people see something that looks like an end, they will just think we're crazy. Everyone gets the entry price they deserve. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TBo74 1 point 2 hours ago Not sure that would be the case unless there is a crash that results in a large amount of people being unable to retrieve money from their bank, bc otherwise, bitcoin will only have shown that you can have complete control of an asset that will lose 80% of its value in a bear market permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]mihaialexmihaialexredditor for 3 months 1 point 10 hours ago !lntip 1000 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]lntipbot 1 point 10 hours ago Hi u/mihaialexmihaialex, thanks for tipping u/TDawgF 1000 satoshis! More info | Balance | Deposit | Withdraw | Something wrong? Have a question? Send me a message permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Womec 1 point 5 hours ago BTC went up as they printed money. Worked as intended. Its a debasement hedge not an inflation. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CmpltlyPrvtPblcAccnt 1 point 5 hours ago *lose permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Since1785 1 point 4 hours ago I don't know. People speculate on currencies all the time, so I think there's more to why BTC hasn't been accepted as a unit of exchange and digital currency. BTC behaves like a speculative asset because it is designed as a speculative asset. If the true goal with BTC was to have it be a unit of exchange then it should have been designed with properties of a currency and not properties of an asset. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]jtmoney7423 52 points 11 hours ago Because 99% of the people who participate in Bitcoin are like you. They say "Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation," or "bitcoin was supposed to save us from a financial crisis." The truth about bitcoin is not this, but a truly decentralized monetary system. If you are looking at the value of bitcoin and comparing it to USD, you don't get it. This is what most people do, they claim to "invest" in bitcoin for all of these reasons (and more), but all of these reasons are to just eventually sell the bitcoin and make fiat dollars. People need to shift their mindset and narrative behind bitcoin Go look at people fleeing Ukraine and Russia as VISA and Mastercard freeze all of their credit cards and banks restricting assets so these people can't leave the Country with their money. Those who have Bitcoin, can flee with most of their personal wealth. Go look at people in Venezuela who went from literally buying concrete cinder blocks to retain value, to buying bitcoin so their savings weren't inflated into oblivion. Most countries and people are so financially privileged all we care about is "when moon?" TLDR; Until Bitcoin is looked at an actual Currency or Commodity, and not some risk asset to balance out portfolios, it will act like every other risk asset on the market. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]HearMeSpeakAsIWill 11 points 9 hours ago I doubt 99% see it as a hedge against inflation, or we wouldn't have seen such a significant sell-off in 2022. The majority see it as a get rich quick scheme, and YOLO in on leverage. Any macro headwinds and we see people running for the exits. That tells me that a lot of people who hold Bitcoin don't know why they hold it, other than "green candle go brrrrr" permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]michael-streeter 10 points 10 hours ago I donated BTC to the Ukraine government for de-mining at the start of the invasion. Now they are not accepting BTC. Why do you think that is? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Zaskoda 1 point 9 hours ago "Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation," I still believe it is. The Fed is doing a lot right now to tighten the money supply and restrain inflation. This is inadvertently tanking a number of currencies. "bitcoin was supposed to save us from a financial crisis." I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say this. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]GuNDaL 2 points 7 hours ago Inadvertently?? What world do you live in? Umm.. SATOSHI himself said that was why he created it?. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Zaskoda 2 points 7 hours ago I believe you misunderstood my comment. The fed is tightening the money supply. This is being done to "fight" inflation. The less currency there is in circulation, the less inflation should be occurring. The fed did not do this with the intention of tanking other currencies, that was a byproduct, hence why I said "inadvertently." However, as we approach the new year, we're also approaching another liquidity crisis - which means there's not enough money in the system to provide liquidity between banks. Thus, the fed will likely ramp up QE or something to prevent the crisis. This would, however, cause more inflation. We're basically in an impossible position where we either will have crazy inflation or a horrible recession, perhaps a depression. But even in the best case, inflation will continue to some degree over the long term. Satoshi constrained the supply of Bitcoin to hedge against inflationary fiat. There's nothing in the design relevant to a recession. Like other global currencies, the current fight against inflation will constrain the growth in value for Bitcoin a bit. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]GuNDaL 1 point 6 hours ago Yes but you said it was never designed to fight a financial crisis. But it was indeed designed to protect the common man and his accumulated wealth from faulty governments that simply declare a currency worthless and replace it with a new one. That scenario to constitutes a financial crisis. Something we've never dealt with in the North America, buy many other 3rd world countries have seen happen on multiple occasions. As for intent, and the first point .. I understood you but it's my belief that while it may not be something they want openly known... they have every intention of causing suffering for the middle and lower classes. Debatable of course, but the more people are struggling the less they influence they have to bring about changes that remove those in power. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheCommodore777 2 points 6 hours ago I'd say it's more of a hedge against increase in the money supply. As the supply of dollars increases, BTC increases in value in the long run. Right now we're in a time of contraction of the money supply. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Zaskoda 1 point 5 hours ago Yes, exactly. An increase in the money supply is generally correlated with inflation. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]sztormwariat 1 point 5 hours ago Not correlated, it's literally inflation by definition permalink embed save parent report give award reply continue this thread [–]green9206 1 point 4 hours ago But even after escaping their country their bitcoin value is still based on usd. So if they had usd instead of bitcoin it would be the same or actually better permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TetraCGT 1 point 4 hours ago !lntip 700 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]lntipbot 1 point 4 hours ago Hi u/TetraCGT, thanks for tipping u/jtmoney7423 700 satoshis! More info | Balance | Deposit | Withdraw | Something wrong? Have a question? Send me a message permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Late-Quarter-5719 1 point an hour ago Well said this is so true. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]choochoomthfka 23 points 12 hours ago As long as the traditional financial market isn't bottoming, traditional investors need to unload their BTC holdings to cover other losses. My 2ct permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TBo74 3 points 2 hours ago Ummm bitcoin started tanking long before traditional markets began tanking, that’s bc it’s a risk on asset. People get out of bitcoin to avoid the much greater losses and actually go into safer investments permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]downtownjj 27 points 12 hours ago the path is not a straight one. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]lordrenovatio 2 points an hour ago A true statement. Peoples time horizones as an "inflation hedge" are too short. Need a multi year hold to experience the fun that is inflation when it hits BTC. Watch what happens to the BTC price when the central money printer (inflation) starts up again. Right now everything is going down. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheSilverCalf 0 points 8 hours ago I bet you are a lot of fun at parties… 😘 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]leeosanches 12 points 11 hours ago Change is like falling asleep... slowly and then all at once. It was the same with the Internet, smartphones, social media etc.. Can't wait for the next few years!! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Haywood-Jablomei 8 points 11 hours ago If FTX and Binance actually allocated funds received into Bitcoin as intended the price of Bitcoin would be much higher imo. Having a digital iou is dumber than fiat. Buy and self custody. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]LiveDirtyEatClean 8 points 11 hours ago The western world isnt using BTC as its intended use and its instead being used for price speculation. So it tracks other traditional investments pretty well. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TrymWS 8 points 10 hours ago It's being tested hard. It only needs to survive. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]roliasedor 4 points 9 hours ago Tropicthunder.png permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cipher-zer0 7 points 9 hours ago Spoiler: HUMANS (are not rational beings) permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TheSilverCalf 2 points 8 hours ago I rest my wealth in your hands. Rest yours in mine. A more factual statement has never been said. Much love. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]zlogic 46 points 12 hours ago Don't underestimate how long people who can print infinite money can delay the inevitable. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]gvictor808 7 points 12 hours ago Yup. Deficit spending and impossible liabilities can have only one outcome. When not If. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]mcnello 1 point 12 hours ago This is a non-answer permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]vt75rredditor for a day 3 points 11 hours ago You certainly don't like it and we know you don't like bitcoin and spend a lot of time in a sub whose subject you don't like. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]zlogic 2 points 12 hours ago You're a non-answer permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheSilverCalf 2 points 8 hours ago Fucking prove that shit, u/zlogic Money where you put your mouth… or something. (How to prove someone is a non-answer, I’m not certain how to gauge your answer if/when it arrives) permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]mercme2023 7 points 11 hours ago Because Bitcoin is still 100% dependent on fiat. It still doesn’t stand alone. It’s not recognized as a currency yet, just an investment directly tied to fiat and the markets. 🤷‍♂️ permalink embed save report give award reply [–]GuNDaL 2 points 7 hours ago I'm the west.. you are correct. In 3rd world countries with openly/blatant corrupt govs (ours are just hide it better) it is a gamechanger. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]etmetm 6 points 10 hours ago There's a lot of information asymmetry in the market - people do not fully realize the purpose of Bitcoin's existence as an exit vavle from the debt fiat monetary system. The price of BTC in USD has gone up from ~4k in March 2020 to ~69k in November 2021 precisely as a function of massive inflation in the USD quantity of money and near zero interest rates as means of cheaply getting access to this new money. There has been exaggeration on the way up just the same as there is or will be exaggeration on bottoming out USD price wise. The price is back to end of 2020 levels because central banks around the world, foremost the FED, are tightening interest rates, thereby decreasing debt and reducing the amount of money in circulation. They will not manage to decrease it back down to pre-COVID levels of early 2020 though without sending the economy into a deflationary collapse. All this while Bitcoin is still inflating into existence at the same fixed rate set during the last halving in May 2020. BTC will be up again on demand increasing both from education closing the information asymmetry and from central banks needing to pivot from raising interest rates and/or having to inject money into the system in other ways (for example through yield curve control on govt bonds) and from supply tightening on the BTC side on the next halving in 2024... permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ThisIsKoo 3 points 7 hours ago The #BitBang permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]SpitinMYm0uth 6 points 9 hours ago People are treating bitcoin like a stock permalink embed save report give award reply [–]CornerEntire9163 5 points 10 hours ago Delusional. It is the early stages. Where we want X, but we can't wait to Y to happen so X becomes real. Now, just make simple math. Do you know how many wallets are out there? How many of them have the most of btc? When was the latest transaction? Then bear this and accept it! If you trust in, spread the word, invest, and wait for the years to come. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Brucifer99 21 points 13 hours ago Same reason the internet took so long to change the game. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]DaVirus 5 points 11 hours ago Also because people sold to shield themselves against exactly what is happening. Dipping during the hard time is normal since no one is using it directly. It's being sold for fiat by people that were ready. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]mredda 2 points 11 hours ago How long did it take? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]atomic_cattleprod 1 point 8 hours ago Not anywhere close to 17 years. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]mredda 2 points 6 hours ago Did it take more? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]atomic_cattleprod 1 point 4 hours ago No. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ColdFreeezer 15 points 12 hours ago Because Bitcoin is an investment and always has been. One day it might be another form of money but let’s be real no one here uses Bitcoin for anything. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]amtib00 6 points 10 hours ago That's not rrue. At a minimum I use btc on fountain value for value podcasting app. I'd also pay for drinks or a meal with btc. As options present themselves I will. With solutions like Breeze POS being developed that might not be far off permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]justanta 2 points 6 hours ago So you're saying you'd like to use bitcoin, but after THIRTEEN YEARS of existence there's still hardly anything you can spend it on? Does that not make you think? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TBo74 1 point 2 hours ago That’s completely true…doesn’t matter how a small Amount of people use it or see it as, it’s what the majority view it or see it as. And the majority of people do not use it for monetary purposes or purchases nor does anywhere close to even 1/4 of retailers accept is as a form of payment. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Svoboda1 1 point 3 hours ago Until the tax laws change, this is me. I’m not tracking TX and going through that headache at tax time. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]bsjohnston 8 points 11 hours ago BTC is entirely a speculative asset. Just like gold, it doesn't do anything for someone who is holding it. It is going to decline as long as people are getting squeezed. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Mediocre_Piccolo8542 4 points 10 hours ago Because most people don't use it as as intended, to transfer value, as P2P e-cash. They do simple buy and hold it, which by definition means they are speculating. Add some typical traders and you get the entire picture of what moves price of BTC = speculation and traders which are correlated with classical markets. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ConclusionMaleficent 3 points 10 hours ago They treat it as a tech stock, so currently it does NOT serve as a hedge against inflation at this time. I bought 2 BTC as an inflation hedge last year. Huge mistake as my 6 figure inflation hedge turned into 5 figures. I would have been farther ahead holding cash permalink embed save report give award reply [–]llCharisma 8 points 12 hours ago Bitcoins upside was severely muted do to the paper bitcoin FTX was selling. The fact is the space got hit with constant scams and things take time to play out. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]JJCTHE1 2 points 11 hours ago I agree w you here however we are speculating. I can’t wait till someone actually applies the analytics to this and gets us some real numbers, it’s probably in the works now. I truly believe that will move the market based on those results. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]jwmoz 9 points 11 hours ago The inflation hedge narrative is dead. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]suphater 3 points 8 hours ago That's good for bitcoin! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]FIAT_IS_TRASH 4 points 10 hours ago Your opinion is transitory permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Free_Idea_ 6 points 12 hours ago There are still a lot of domino's left to fall. Binance is looking suspect, a lot of non regulated crypto exchanges are insolvent. With the price so low and mining difficulty so high, big miners are playing a deadly game of chicken with bankruptcy. I think we have to get through another couple of FTX like implosions before we can say we are clear for take off out of this bear market. Bitcoin/related crypto markets still need some more cleansing. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]HH0115 3 points 10 hours ago I thought Mt. Gox was the last one. Boy was I wrong 😂. I didn’t believe in a mass psychosis event either but now I get it, most people are already in one. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]bathroomworld 3 points 11 hours ago It's a maturity process. At first it wasn't correlated to anything, now it's correlated to tech sector, and eventually it'll be correlated to safe haven assets permalink embed save report give award reply [–]DatBuridansAss 3 points 10 hours ago Bitcoin, for whatever reason, is boring until it isn't. It will move sideways for months, or break your heart with fake out bull runs over and over again, before adding a 0 and never letting go again. It was $1 then a few years later it was $10, then a few years later it was $100, then $1000, then $10,000. I expect it to dick around this range for another few years before it adds another 0. Then another. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]trimbandit 1 point 7 hours ago The fact that it is at the a same price as it was 5 years ago does not agree with your statement. Until bitcoin can show a shred of stability, it will just a risky speculation permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]DatBuridansAss 1 point 6 hours ago Floor vs ceiling. Pretty basic. I know people who bought in during peak mania of 2017 might feel like Bitcoin has stalled out, but anyone who was here a cycle or more earlier recognizes the pattern. Even the most cynical bears don't think we're going back to $400 (the price when I started buying). permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]trimbandit 1 point 5 hours ago The only thing that is relevant is the the price now, not some high that it did not sustain. It could have gone to 250k, but the price is &16500 now and that is what it is worth. I got in before the 2017 highs, so I am still up so I don't care too much, but your theory that every few years it will add another zero is inaccurate. The easy 10x gain days are behind us. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheAspiringFarmer 3 points 9 hours ago it's been mentioned but the truth is...so long as the majority see BTC = USD$ as the value metric, nothing will change. most people consider and utilize BTC purely and strictly as an investment vehicle to make more fiat. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]lwc-wtang12 3 points 9 hours ago* Because 99% of people simply do not get the point of bitcoin. Most of the people in r/cryptocurrency don't get the point of bitcoin. If they did they wouldn't, under any circumstances, be investing in ANY of the newer layer 1 chains because they are all (almost) permissioned blockchains. In other words, they are what bitcoin sought to destroy -- a centralized system. And most investors just view it as a tech bet. They don't get supply and demand economics, scarcity, disinflation, etc. But it isn't. Instead, it's just following along with the Nasdaq and QQQ because people think it's just a tech play when in reality, it is significantly more nuanced and deep than that. ve easing is? Blockchain, if it ever manages to scale while remaining decentralized, will become just as ubiquitous as smartphones and the internet, but the problem is that these things are too abstract and intangible for people to understand. Phones/the internet didn't become mainstream because they could protect the value of the users' money. They went mainstream because they're convenient. And most people don't think -"gee if I make this investment now my life will be more easy and more convenient in 10 years." They think in the now. Most people that are buying bitcoin now are doing so to get rich NOW, not later. Bitcoin and crypto do not make anyone's life easier right now. It's not more convenient than a debit card and a bank account. Only in specific situations like remittance payments or a frozen bank account is it more convenient. But you're exactly right. Bitcoin should be absolutely pumping in the current state of the world. It's fundamentally designed to protect against inflation, human error, greed, conflicts of interest, censorship, etc. But it isn't. Instead, it's just following along with the Nasdaq and QQQ because people think it's just a tech play when in reality, it is significantly more nuanced and deep than that. So, put simply, bitcoin isn't up right now because of a lack of understanding and the greed and lack of patience all humans have. Time will tell permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Doughboy3531 3 points 6 hours ago The market can remain irrational longer than one can stay solvent or something like that 🤷‍♂️ permalink embed save report give award reply [–]The_Realist01 3 points 3 hours ago “Risk asset” - Macro says risk off. Until capital moves back to the people (doubtful), btc as a savings mechanism for people won’t outweigh the capital allocation from current day capital allocators. It’ll happen the next decade. Just have to outlast any competition. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]R33sh0 2 points 11 hours ago At this point we have all been proven to not know much of anything but the fact that the whole space is unpredictable. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Rhyndir 2 points 11 hours ago Because BTC is a market like anything else. Youre talking about human emotion. Fear. Greed. Markets have been moving the same way for hundreds of years, BTC is no different. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]FIAT_IS_TRASH 2 points 10 hours ago Feds are still tightening monetary policy. There is a lot of debt out there in all forms: Government, Consumer(credit card and mortgage) and Corporate. The interest on that debt is substantial relative to existing Money supply. When the Fed is tightening money supply it puts the squeeze on debtors(like a game of musical chairs) there is literally not enough money for everyone to make their nut each month. So many people are forced to sell their stuff in order to make debt payments. Bitcoin price hit by this similar to QQQ owners. When the Fed can't politically get away with tightening any more and (when/if) they are forced to re-open the monetary floodgates...Bitcoin will do better than most. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]liveduhlife 2 points 10 hours ago Most common people still have faith in fiat. Proof is that when markets crashed, the DXY shot up and has stayed strong. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]vinsane38 2 points 10 hours ago Fear permalink embed save report give award reply [–]michael-streeter 2 points 10 hours ago It's too small at the moment (market cap). The last I heard its value strongly correlates with US tech stocks and is classed as a "risk off asset" meaning increased risk (of what?) means many traders will sell and the price will fall. Keep stacking and when there's a bull run that will be a trailing indicator the recession is over. I could be wrong though! 😜 It will behave differently in the long term and go up when people are looking for somewhere to keep their fiat that's not gold or real estate. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TBo74 0 points 2 hours ago Risk on…gold and other investments are “risk off” which means less volatile but much lower rate of return permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Ok_Relationship_9557 2 points 9 hours ago If Bitcoin reacts to liquidity then it's acting just as one would expect. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]JuryNo90redditor for a day 2 points 9 hours ago There is more to fiat than some (majority) of bitcoiners often get. Fiat has come a long way and is highly controlled. Bitcoin has and will always be a threat to fiat. That's why i have always expected serious damages to the system from the other side. Fiat runners, (the big guns of the society) will commit suicide before witnessing the kind of success most bitcoiners expect. Thus, expect more damages to come. This crisis is just one of such episodes loading. expect more attacks (and i dare to say, well calculated attacks) on BTC and its siblings. Bitcoin is synonymous to economic freedom/liberation for all. Who wants that? Definitely, those who think there should be such freedom. Unfortunately, sorry! That's not how this (earth business ) is meant to operate. Fiat is a great tool of stabilizing society. It gives power to a selected few to govern and regulate. That's why Bitcoin must not exist. If you are like me, see no randomness in sensitive stuffs like this. It's all calculated to say the least. Unless bitcoiners rise above these clouds and see things for what they truly are, I'm afraid even the next gen will still be having tis sort of conversations. The introduction of BTC meant war against the New York barons and its closest associates. It was war and has been carefully watched as strategies to take it down were being developed. Interestingly, Centralization, the most dreaded demon that Bitcoin's creators thought they had conquered was easily resurrected. It is this demon that's being use against the efforts of Nakamoto (s). Centralization is dangerous. And unless it is thoroughly regulated, disaster is always it's other name. And of course, we know what regulations mean! Bottom line, bitcoin either function as fiat and bend the knee to the Dollar, Euro, Pound, or dies. Easy as that! Whatever bitcoiners are experiencing today, it was eminent and anyone who bothered understanding the real structure of society would have easily spotted this scenario. Wise up! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]OrionMessier 2 points 9 hours ago We're in the middle of crypto winter. No need to even look at the price until 2024 or 2025. I'm not saying don't look, but when you do, get a blanket, throw another log on the fire, and watch the snow fall. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]WayLayFries 2 points 9 hours ago Money and power against an accountable ledger are strong. I can’t imagine why. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]itsthehappyman 2 points 8 hours ago We are still early permalink embed save report give award reply [–]StugDrazil 2 points 8 hours ago BTC is the same as fiat, it’s something from nothing and fractionalized, much like the banking industry that this sub seems to hate so much. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]tbjfi 2 points 8 hours ago Check back in 50 years and compare it to the dollar permalink embed save report give award reply [–]mr-fybxoxo 2 points 8 hours ago 10-20 years from now everyone will wish they’d just put $1,000 into BTC. It’s part of it, I remember Apple stock around 2009, I was too young to have any money but I thought this company will be a good one… permalink embed save report give award reply [–]mr-fybxoxo 2 points 8 hours ago I’m holding 20+ years, by then I’ll be nicely retired. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]BrotherAmazing 2 points 7 hours ago It’s “purpose”? Speak for yourself! I use the Bitcoin payment network to perform secure peer-to-peer transactions that require no trusted third party intermediary with final settlement occurring faster than ACH or Visa that are censor-resistant. For me, that is the purpose of Bitcoin and it has been operating perfectly without any problems for many many years now. I could give a shit if BTC price in USD changes day-to-day or month-to-month as long as there is no incredible slippage from the time I send until final settlement. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TBo74 0 points 2 hours ago So what then after the settlement? You think businesses can hold and risk the asset falling much lower than the goods they sold? Bitcoin has also been seized and banned so it’s far from censor resistant permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]BrotherAmazing 1 point 1 hour ago I fail to understand your first question. I don’t give a shit what someone does with my cash after I pay them in cash, I don’t give a shit what they do with my Bitcoin after it’s no longer mine and I paid for a product or service with it. Done as far as I al concerned. If they want to convert it to cash, I could care less. The Bitcoin payment network did its job and worked to settle the transaction. No, Bitcoin is not able to be censored. You clearly don’t have a clue what you are talking about from any kind of firsthand experience because if you have a valid wallet address and you sign a transaction to send to that address, it doesn’t get denied and goes through. No government or bank can stop it from going through. You’re reading 2nd and 3rd hand popular media and blog accounts of events that occurred written by people who don’t understand how Bitcoin works. As far as Bitcoin being “seized”, first off that is not what we are talking about as censor resistant. We are talking about how a bank or Visa can declined my transactions, even lawful transactions. Bitcoin does not “decline” my transactions ever. Second, with respect to someone “seizing” Bitcoin, that is nearly impossible to do unless the full force of the government is brought upon you with search warrants and you are committing some sort of financial crime tied to the Bitcoin ownership. You would need to not only get my h/w wallet, but also get into at least one (of not more!) of my safe deposit boxes, and good luck with all this without a warrant and not being the government. Third, when you read stories of the government seizing BTC, it’s never ever what the headlines make it sound like. Every single case I have followed up on where they “seize” BTC goes like this: Warrant is issued and there is a crime tied to the BTC like ransomeware attack. Government ends up finding unencrypted seed words with passphrase stored on a computer or stored on paper at scene of h/w wallet in same location; i.e., dumb criminals doing dumb things. It’s kind of like you’re arguing AES-256 encryption is weak because it has been broken and governments could ban it. Well, no. It hasn’t been “broken”, but if the keys/passphrase is left out written on paper, yes I can access the encrypted info, duh. And governments can ban anything in theory, so that’s not a good argument. Sticking with the encryption argument, governments tried to ban encryption and they can. They can do whatever they want—they can ban having more than 1 child, ban certain thoughts, ban the internet. But that is not an argument at all for why the Bitcoin payment network isn’t useful to someone using it, especially in a non-shithole country that doesn’t ban it! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]StackOwOFlow 2 points 6 hours ago But when I see the stock market crashing I always have the hope that BTC moves independently since it’s a whole different ball game The stock market hasn't really crashed yet. It has only deleveraged tech stocks from crazy ATHs. The S&P is still hovering around 3800, we ain't seen nothing yet. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Cymballism 2 points 5 hours ago Because some people would like you to not believe in Bitcoin. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]slokiebear 2 points 5 hours ago Lots of "synthetic" bitcoin in the market imo. Price is being manipulated just like any other asset at this point. If 70+% of bitcoin are currently in cold storage and off of exchanges it is confusing that the prices steadily keeps going down. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Conflagrate247 2 points 5 hours ago Almost like crypto is manipulated like everything else permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Astrofide 2 points 4 hours ago BTC is red? Pretty sure mine is orange. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]jt7855 2 points 3 hours ago There was a bubble in the price of BTC that was fueled by low interest rates and cheap LEVERAGE created by the Fed and other central banks. The bubble has deflated in BTC. The bubble is deflating in the stock market. The gov also changed the “mark to market” accounting after the 2008 crisis and so stock prices unwind more slowly now. How much the “plunge protection team” is involved with the slow movement downward in stocks is unknown. They don’t answer to anyone. BTC doesn’t have that and tends to be disliked by certain governments. So here we are. Individual investors buy and hodl. Knowing it is worth the time and investment. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Solottica 2 points 2 hours ago Because only 2% of people truly understand bitcoin, the rest are speculators. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Bitcoin_Maximalistredditor for 6 weeks 2 points 11 hours ago you are so lucky to stack sats that cheap permalink embed save report give award reply [–]boiledpangolin 1 point 12 hours ago It's USD vs everything atm. FED pivot will lead to the great decoupling. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TheNeoOne001 1 point 11 hours ago Because a lot of people arent actualy in for BITCOIN, they just want a quick buck, but for us that can actually see the bigger picture this price is just momental. See you in a decade or 2. Until then, Good luck and have fun! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]kingofthejaffacakes 1 point 10 hours ago Each bottom is higher than the previous. Each bottom tells us the quantity of money that believes in bitcoin for more than just speculation. Ignore the highs, they are from the fomo crowd. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]JanPB 1 point 8 hours ago Because due to the lack of clear legal status (regulation) practically all Big Money institutions stay away from BTC, both in the US and abroad. They simply cannot do it until the SEC clears up the path. So today it's mostly retail which means low volume (relatively speaking wrt what it should be) and acting on whims. Both are reflected in the price chart. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Shortalamuhl 1 point 5 hours ago Because. It. Has. No. Utility. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ebk_eraredditor for 7 weeks -3 points 12 hours ago 1 BTC = 1 BTC is the right answer. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TurkeyLuver 9 points 12 hours ago Correct but meaningless permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ReignOfKaos 2 points 10 hours ago Which is great if the only thing you care about is exchanging bitcoin for bitcoin permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]sc2bigjoe 1 point 11 hours ago 1 BTC UTXO != 1 BTC UTXO permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]SmoothGoing -2 points 13 hours ago Did you just assume my pronouns bitcoin's purpose? What if that was to go from zero to $5000? Then it exceeded expectations with flying colors. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]mcnello -1 points 12 hours ago In reality, you bought BTC at $69k and are HODL'ing permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]vt75rredditor for a day 1 point 11 hours ago* You're trying too hard to emphasize a down market. Tamper it a bit or else people will see you're trying to suppress sentiment. They'll just point to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]New-Post-7586 0 points 11 hours ago Zoom out. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]wee_d 0 points 10 hours ago It’s original purpose was to be a peer to peer electronic cash system. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]InternetGuy_962redditor for 6 days 0 points 7 hours ago Because markets have cycles, and we’re currently in a bear. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Dplayerx 0 points 7 hours ago I’m a big crypto believer. Been using crypto for payment since 2020 and I’m the only one I know doing it. That’s the problem permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Cold-Change5060 1 point 6 hours ago You never going outside so you don't know anybody is a you problem. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Dplayerx 1 point 6 hours ago Cries in my mansion alone permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]aaronVRN -1 points 8 hours ago It’s red cause it’s down permalink embed save report give award reply [–]InitialAdvertising98 -1 points 3 hours ago M Nv lol kyjyjj Iulm C c permalink embed save report give award reply [+]NargazoidThings -15 points 12 hours ago btc is fake, buy something with real world value like silver and gold permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Thanis_in_Eve 4 points 12 hours ago ☝️ Came to Bitcoin subreddit to push....shiny rocks... 😭🤣 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]spicywizard420 3 points 11 hours ago They’d have better luck pushing alts here lolol permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TomSurman 1 point 12 hours ago Well, that's me convinced. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]gevorgemin 1 point 9 hours ago Yeah, buy tulips. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]gvictor808 1 point 12 hours ago Market permalink embed save report give award reply [–]actum_tempus 1 point 11 hours ago i wonder when the day comes just one wealthy mug deceides to buy all the btc there is and the price goes moom permalink embed save report give award reply [–]amtib00 2 points 10 hours ago Wealthy people are sometimes smart and the ones that see value in bitcoin certainly are. They won't come in to the market that way. The intent will be buying as much as they can for as little fiat as they can. They know if they buy too much it spikes the price. They also know fud suppresses the price. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]actum_tempus 1 point 9 hours ago wall street smart permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]OfWhomIAmChief 1 point 11 hours ago Because its still speculative, the world has yet to agree on what 1 BTC is worth. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]No-Marzipan-2423 1 point 10 hours ago So the run up to 67k was bitcoin responding almost instantly to increasing inflation - the problem is that the rest of the economy measures inflation with lagging indicators and now this bear market was almost entirely created by the measures they have used to try and combat inflation in 2022. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]norwegianmorningw00d 1 point 10 hours ago Human psychology is doing its thing right now. Many people are de-risking from speculative equities. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]999999999989 1 point 10 hours ago "wallstreet" algorithms infected BTC markets and they have it under control for now. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]RlzJohnnyM 1 point 10 hours ago If you are using this as a store of value, Why do you care? Stack sats and Come back in 10 years permalink embed save report give award reply [–]robotsdev 1 point 10 hours ago Have exchange. Let people trade Bitcoin. Realize that 80% of Bitcoin traded never leaves. Sell Bitcoin to people and just add some numbers in their account. Now people have bought 1000 BTC, and exchange only has 100 BTC. If a whale wants their Bitcoin I tell them to wait and scale back a bit. "Get hacked". ??? Profit! This is why everyone needs to withdraw their BTC into their own wallets as soon as they buy it. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]samsquantchtpb1 1 point 10 hours ago Still early days. Risk asset. Risk off. And people are idiots and don't accept change fast enough. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]cr0n_dist0rti0n 1 point 10 hours ago Despite all the theories, beliefs and desires, BTC functionally acts as a commodity. Digital scarcity with value. I doubt that’s going to change for the foreseeable future of ever. To be a functional currency you need price stability. Hence why central banks attempt to peg inflation at 2%. Since most people who buy BTC are looking it as an investment with the expectation of return relative to fiat BTC will not function as a currency with price stability. And would you want that anyway. To say peg deflation at 2% a year? Or manipulate it’s value in any way? You probably want a healthy ROI. But a business can run on a speculative “currency”. If I sell a loaf of bread I need to know my cost inputs and have a reasonable expectation of profit in relation to those cost inputs. I cannot have the risk of massive speculative swings in my base currency. If I made a widget in Nov. 2021 with Bitcoin my cost inputs would have increased massively and all of them would be selling at a loss or I’d have to sit on my widgets in the hope of a price shift. In other words I would not expect BTC for function massively outside the norms of speculative assets. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Bigmoh-08 1 point 10 hours ago Past market trend shouldn’t be used to predict future price. With BTC having absolute scarcity it’s just a matter of time until people realise it’s true value. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Nohoula 1 point 10 hours ago It will gradually happen over time. Lower transaction fees through using bitcoin will be the Trojan Horse. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]DPXD93 1 point 10 hours ago Keep buying we need more buys and more bitcoin mining permalink embed save report give award reply [–]koonface2787 1 point 10 hours ago There really isnt any reason for it to behave any which way. As btc is one of the only markets in which has the least amount of manipulation ( derivatives markets put downward pressure enabled by custodial platfroms ie binance bitmex) with btcs ability for self custody which no other assets really have we're able to move the market. Everyone just needs to custody their UTXOs and transact P2P. When we do so price reflects that. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]cockusino 1 point 10 hours ago Look at btc chart divided by m2/m3 money supply and there is your answear permalink embed save report give award reply [–]SaggeeDot 1 point 10 hours ago If you’re still converting your BTC value against any fiat, you’re not deep enough down the rabbit hole permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ch-dev 1 point 10 hours ago Most people in crypto see it as an investment / get rich quick opportunity and not as a utility. I know plenty of folks who have Bitcoin but not a single one who have used it to purchase any goods or services. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Signal-Judgment 1 point 9 hours ago Why would they? It's a huge pain in the ass to use for purchasing goods and services compared to USD. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]edL222 1 point 10 hours ago It’s being manipulated by financial institutions. They don’t want hard assets like this to show good returns in economic downturn even though it’s actually the case. They’ve accumulated enough to put downward pressure for a long time . One of them will try to 51% bitcoin soon and take it down to pave the way for cbdc permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ProfessorPurrrrfect 1 point 10 hours ago 95% of people in crypto have no idea what it does or what it’s purpose it. They don’t even know you can take it off exchanges permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Introvert-Beaverredditor for 2 weeks 1 point 9 hours ago* As long as there are fractional reserve banking and a fiat monetary system in place, there will always be actors in the financial markets who are willing to short-sell BTC, funded by a low-interest rate credit from a central bank. The fewer central banks there are, the more accurate the BTC price will be. Have patience, we are still early. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Educational-Guide-63 1 point 9 hours ago Market rigged permalink embed save report give award reply [–]CryptoCrackLord 1 point 9 hours ago Bitcoin is worth $16,000 per coin. People should really keep things in perspective. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]AlwaysReady4444 1 point 9 hours ago People really don’t understand markets permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Grand-Marsupial-5291 1 point 9 hours ago Bitcoin it red because banks and rich cunts bought the majority control in bitcoin so they could slowly drop the price and fuck as many people as they possibly could over before next leg. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Responsible_Falcon_7 1 point 9 hours ago The major problem is centralized exchanges are not buying BTC on lit markets until you move to Dex or personal wallet permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ferociousdonkey 1 point 9 hours ago its* Yes, I'm that guy permalink embed save report give award reply [–]MilkMySpermCannon 1 point 8 hours ago Btc has become a tech stock on steroids. It will follow the world market for the most part permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Cold-Change5060 1 point 6 hours ago Nope. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Guilty-bnb 1 point 8 hours ago We the ppl can make BTC grow or shrink and that is always going to be the case , you listen to the supposed to be “experts” and you can see 95% of them still have no clue on if BTC is moving up or down , they all tell you things like it went down because of hike on interest, or because of inflation when it actually is anti inflation , and they all tell you after the action never before, so what really drives BTC up or down ? Bears and bulls , nothing else but who creates bulls and bears , driven by sentiment we the ppl can create huge avalanches of either unfortunately things are different now compare to a few years ago when smart money investors and most whales were skeptical about Crypto , then the common crowd created the bull or bear avalanches driven by pure sentiment, pushing Crypto to ATHs and ATLs , now institutions and whales are at the drivers seat and the common investor must learn certain investing tactics for its own protection, institutions and whales do not chase price but wait for price to come to them and once they sincronice they can benefit from a sideways market unlike most of the rest , smart money could be the reason the market is bearish and not so much inflation, interest hikes nor any war going on, what was the purpose of BTC do we remember it was created to be crisis proof in certain way ? and to be anti inflation ? Well. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]kosmoskolio 1 point 8 hours ago I’m into software development my whole career (something like 13 years). There’s one thing I can tell you from experience: what a product is intended for is not what it’s used for. users decide what to do with given piece of software You can do a lot to push users in way way or another but in the end of the day it’s their choice. Bitcoin might have been designed as a day-to-day money or as an independent store of value. But if people decide to only gamble with it than that’s what it is. So I’m calling you to question your opinion on what is Bitcoin for and how it should be used. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Postman_Rings_Thrice 1 point 8 hours ago There will have to be a complete paradigm sea change in value-for-value acceptance on a global scale. There will inevitably be a "shot heard 'round the world", and until that happens, BTC will be bought, sold, and manipulated like a commodity. I hold some and will likely buy more as I am able, but my main holdings are U.S. and Western European stocks, precious metals, and some U.S. real estate. My stocks are mostly conventional energy (oil), and pharma. My metals are 40/40/20 Au/Pt/Ag. My RE is rental income condos. Good wishes to all in 2023! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Miqag 1 point 8 hours ago Bitcoin was not born as a result of the financial crisis. The timing was purely coincidence. Digital currency rooted in cryptography had been in the works for decades. Satoshi’s breakthrough occurred when it did and was disconnected from the financial crisis of 2008. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]StateNo6103 1 point 8 hours ago It will become more apparent that it's the best money when we have to continually print our way out of calamity. The next QEs coming will DWARF what happened in 2020. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]FUS-RO-DONT 1 point 8 hours ago Highly liquid with a 24/7 market. More people need dollars in the short term. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]mankycrack 1 point 8 hours ago Because it's not being used as a currency it's still an asset to everyone. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]birdman332 1 point 8 hours ago Because you and other don't understand Bitcoin. It was made to be global, censorship resistant, peer to peer momey outside the control of a central authority. Last time, and every time, I've check, Bitcoin still roduces blocks roughly every ten minutes which releases a set amount of new supply into the network while securing past transactions. It is usable anywhere with internet access and you don't need any permissions to use it. So it's doing exactly what it was designed for. The USD price is irrelevant if you understand Bitcoin. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TheOneTruePavil 1 point 8 hours ago Because most folks that buy and leave it on exchanges don't realize that they're buying a derivative product called a Contract for Difference. It only becomes real once you remove it from the exchange. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]aceasarsalad 1 point 8 hours ago I think it's because the big investors of BTC are the same folks that own many stocks. Their buying and selling behaviour is still in that old framework permalink embed save report give award reply [–]help-me-retire-early 1 point 8 hours ago Capitulation by dude permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Constant-Ad9398 1 point 8 hours ago If a financial collapse were to happend the price of bitcoin wont matther, the true value lies in it's properties as a medium of exchange permalink embed save report give award reply [–]DrShaqra 1 point 7 hours ago Because people don’t trust it. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]BitcoinMaxiBurgerredditor for 6 days 1 point 7 hours ago Because Tax Authorities treat it as an invesment. If ever Tax Authorities treat disposal of BTC as a non-CGT event, I would be buying and spending BTC like i do with money. In my country, BTC is only treated as personal use when you use it immediately. but i dont use Fiat immediately. If i bought BTC and let it sit on my wallet and i spent it a month later ( at that time it appreciated by 5%), now its a CGT event. I am hoping legislation will change once more of the population gets into BTC. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]kittywrastler 1 point 7 hours ago* If the Fed gets to 2% the economy will get destroyed, debt to GDP is like 400%. With the 31t debt every 1% rate hike will be 310 billion. 10% of tax revenue. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Gman76_2 1 point 7 hours ago Supply and demand permalink embed save report give award reply [–]qlz19 1 point 7 hours ago Just be patient and don’t put in what you can’t afford to lose. DCA and HODL are cliche for a reason… permalink embed save report give award reply [–]amalvarez 1 point 6 hours ago It's not red. It's still yellow-orange. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]lunaticz0r 1 point 6 hours ago IMO purpose for bitcoin as of now is to make big money transactions easy and anonymous. That's just a summary of big gang crime stuff... It's not as easy as paying with bank card yet, the big media is also against it obviously and not making look like something not easy and secure. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Cold-Change5060 1 point 6 hours ago It does this on a 4 year cycle. It's done it several times now. It peaks from lack of new coins after the halving. Goes to ridiculous levels from speculation. Then it crashes and levels out still much higher than the previous cycle's low. We are in the low part of the cycle. Outside of this it follows the market because when other investments go down they are on sale, so people sell BTC to buy those, and vice versa. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]longstreakof 1 point 6 hours ago Bitcoin hasn’t developed as the created expected. It has become a speculative investment with no real day to day usage despite being around for a long time. The amount of scams and criminals in the crypto space is not helping to get new money into the system either. I know these scams are separate to bitcoin but it hurts confidence and take up. We are in a dangerous space. If we continue to see frauds and scams in crypto the whole space will be regulated heavily and that will be very bad for bitcoin. I am personally waiting to see what happens in the first half of 2023. If a few more exchanges fail and more alt coins or stable coins collapse then it won’t be pretty. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ClassyDumpster 1 point 6 hours ago It's only red if you got in after institution money came in. I'm still green. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ou8bbq 1 point 6 hours ago Until you can use it to buy stuff it’s another vehicle for investors to kite and dump. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Spartacus_Nakamoto 1 point 5 hours ago If you look at the size of the bond market and the moves being made to manipulate interest rates it starts to make sense why everything moves together. It’s just distortions in the value of money. The entire global economy is like trying to measure something with a yard stick that keeps changing length arbitrarily. Long term these fluctuations don’t matter as much, and if you zoom out bitcoin is reacting as it should. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]oneluv_hug 1 point 5 hours ago Institutions that have large holdings will soon be able to manipulate prices, just like the stock market. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Particular_Relief154 1 point 5 hours ago I think the problem is in the people investing in it. Most see it as a get rich quick scheme- and I’m not going to lie- that’s exactly how I entered the crypto space. It’s simply seen by the world as an asset at best. And a scam by people who don’t understand it. Adoption and usage via the lightning network is key to getting it to breakaway and decouple from the stock markets. I fear that the only real way to get joe-public on board is via the mainstream banks. Look at how sceptical the world was at contactless, Apple/Google pay etc, and now it’s mainstream. And more used than cash. The investment banks have already started to move in and include it in their portfolios, and before too long the high street banks will have done the same. They know they have to either embrace it and offer it, or risk their futures. So they’ll embrace it and start to offer Bitcoin services where they skim a profit on transactions. Once this happens then the public see Bitcoin as a serious thing (it’s not just some friend or person at work banging on about it like a conspiracy theorist anymore, it’s real because my bank said so), and start to adopt it too.. That and that halvings, coupled with inflation of fiat- should see it decouple and climb (in relation to fiat). permalink embed save report give award reply [–]iHatecats-1337 1 point 5 hours ago Shhhhhh. Some of us are still trying to stack in these trying times. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]the-faded-ferret 1 point 5 hours ago If you overlay the BTC chart with periods of tightening or money printing you’ll see very clear lines permalink embed save report give award reply [–]my21streddit 1 point 4 hours ago I'd argue it isn't red. It went from not existing last time to being worth $17k. That's a pretty good hedge! The #1 problem facing bitcoin is ease of use. Us technical people have no problem, but my parents can't figure out how to use Apple/Google maps (partly because they don't want to, partly because they 'can't'). So the concept of backing up a private key/secret words is utterly foreign to them, no matter how many times you explain it. And, sadly, it isn't just the 70+ crowd who is this way, I know plenty of 20-30 somethings who are the same. Ease of use part 2: The real game changer would be if someone could create a distributed, trustless, bitcoin exchange that accepted the same Financial Messages that banks use in order to move money via wires/ACH, but instead those dollars got written to a blockchain right alongside the crypto they were being exchanged for. The reason nobody does this is because access to the FM system is human controlled, so someone has to give you access. Similar to trying to run your own postfix server; receiving e-mail is easy. Good luck sending one without relaying it through Google, your ISP, or some other 'trusted' party. Removal of capital gains filing requirement. It's too much of a headache to remember every transaction you had and file capital gains on it. By FAR, number 3 is the biggest deal. Build a trustless way to convert fiat to crypto (and I mean in big volumes, $100k-$100m volumes per single user) and you've got something really worth having. This DOES NOT mean 'no KYC'. The fact that it's designed to interface with the traditional FM system means KYC is a requirement from day 0. If you want that changed, well, lobby for that and #4 at the same time, as both of those are legislative changes. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]The-BEAST 1 point 4 hours ago These past few years were “oh boy I hope this goes to 1 million I will be rich” instead of the reasons stated. Once that’s not true it’s been first to the exit. With the collapse of multiple massive exchanges and liquidations people don’t have the same faith and or money to throw at it anymore. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Bootiluvr 1 point 4 hours ago I for one, welcome more of a downturn. Cheaper bitcoin. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]bigwavedave000 1 point 4 hours ago Lots of BTC "trading", has nothing to do with BTC. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]halt_spell 1 point 4 hours ago Raising interest rates was likely due in part to the Fed watching people successfully dump their USD (and not just exchange it for USD denominated assets). permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Outrageous_Result_43 1 point 4 hours ago How long after the internet goes down from an SHTF event, will BTC be accessible? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Old-Bluebird8461 1 point 4 hours ago Politicians permalink embed save report give award reply [–]MyNameIsJoe68 1 point 3 hours ago The reason is because Bitcoin became institutionalized in the last 3 years permalink embed save report give award reply [–]zenethics 1 point 3 hours ago Because some bought at 1 penny and some bought at 70k. There is no possible way an asset like this could capitalize like it needs to without the volatility we're seeing. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]4Sal13 1 point 3 hours ago Because just like fiat, btc has slowly ended up in the hands of the wealthy. Let’s face it, the rich will always get richer and the poor will remain poor. (The are few exceptions of course). To think that these people with more money than they will ever need, didn’t watch two insane bull runs with btc and haven’t hopped aboard would be short sighted in my opinion. Small fish are barely staying afloat right now. Let alone being able to fuel a new bull. Money printer no longer brrrrring…. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Bryanadamz 1 point 3 hours ago If you have to make the choice between paying rent / feeding your kids or holding your bitcoin, the choice is obvious permalink embed save report give award reply [–]CorneliusFudgem 1 point 3 hours ago Because history repeats itself and the true value of bitcoin can only be grasped by groups of people experiencing centralized oppression. I would bet every penny I have that bitcoin becomes $10,000,000+ in a universe where hyperinflation becomes rampant (aka the universe we’re currently in lol). permalink embed save report give award reply [–]certifiedforgedcheck 1 point 3 hours ago BTC is being used primarily for speculation. Unless it fundamentally replaces fiat, it will most likely move with the market. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]soooofa_king 1 point 2 hours ago BTC is speculative like other tech stocks. It will move accordingly. The only thing that will change that paradigm is if people actually believe it is something different than a speculative investment. Nothing indicates that will happen anytime soon. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]robothistorian 1 point 2 hours ago* Interesting question. A lot of interesting and thought provoking answers too. Let me add one more dimension to the answers already shared. As many have said, folks are (1) uneasy (due to lack of familiarity) with digital assets (2) transacting with it remains a stumbling block as it's not as easy as pulling out a few notes of fiat or presenting a card (3) folks remain trapped by the mindset that it is a "store of value" and thus somewhat (but not wholly) analogous to gold. I suggest that there is a deeper and more problematic reason that underwrites the whole Bitcoin phenomenon. Bitcoin as many know was one of the consequences of the financial crisis. It was (and remains) envisioned as an alternate and innovative way to distribute wealth. But because of precisely this reason, it was and continues to be considered to be a critical threat by the State. This is because a State has three primary "rights"/duties that it performs ostensibly on behalf of its citizens. These are: (1) the right to raise armies and wage war (2) the right to lay down the law and to enforce it, and (3) the right to levy taxes and to redistribute wealth. Bitcoin, arguably, challenges this last right. If you look at the history of the evolution of the State (regardless of its various manifestations), you will find that whenever an entity or agency has threatened to undermine any one of these primary "rights"/duties of the State, it has retaliated to preserve its exclusiveness. Bitcoin effectively takes away from the State the right to redistribute wealth. This is a threat to the State. Thus notice the nature and character of the debates that are taking place across legislative bodies across the world about Bitcoin. For example, often we hear Senator Warren arguing in her self-righteous and shrill manner about the need for regulation of "cryptos" (Bitcoin included). While the question of regulation remains open (what kind of regulation, who will regulate, how can models of restitution be built into a digital system etc), she also claims that "cryptos" are used for money laundering, enabling terrorist states etc. (We heard her make these arguments during the recent FTX-related hearings). What she does not state - rather omits to say - is that fiat - specially the US$ - is the primary instrument which has been used for money laundering, drug trafficking, financing narco-terrorism etc. And what's interesting is that the State wholly controls/regulates the circulation of fiat. Recognizing this, the State and it's agents have designed this narrative that digital entities like Bitcoin are dangerous; they are entities that only have a speculative value; they are "created out of thin air" (which is one of the more specious of arguments given that fiat is backed by nothing but "the fiat" of the State, that is to say, by it's propensity to engage in violence), among other things. So for widespread adoption to take place, a conceptual change will be necessary. That will take time but, I strongly suspect, it will happen. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]bender-io 1 point an hour ago Just give it time and deepen your understanding in the mean time. Once it gets to a market cap of $10 trillion or so, it should have enough liquidity to break free of its stock market correlation. The more Ive grown to appreciate Bitcoin, the less I care about it’s price action at any point in time. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]MT_Blockchain [score hidden] 48 minutes ago Educating people is the key. The more people understand BTC and opt in, the more you see it valued, denominated in USD term permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ThunderPigGaming [score hidden] 41 minutes ago If BTC were to remain in this price range (or steady at any price range), it will serve its purpose as an alternative currency. You do not want a currency to be as volatile as BTC has been. Imagine if the US Dollar had been as volatile as BTC has been. Our economy would be a wreck. permalink embed save report give award reply

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Cryptocurrency: Thieves Steal Juan's Gold
by grarpamp 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

https://metro.co.uk/2022/12/26/thieves-dig-10-foot-tunnel-to-get-into-bank-… Klaus Schwab : “our education initiative… we have Cisco… and practically all the big names… we will revolutionize education…we will retrain the teachers… we will put a new curriculum in place” … so that we can indoctrinate the children with our ideology at an early age… She was so excited about the convenience of face-scan payment in China...no card or phone needed ... 🤡 🌎 Wait until the govt decides your social credit score is too low for not doing what they tell you. No water for you until you receive your 4th booster. 😲 Combine that with a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) and your freedom is gone. They track your every movement and location at all times, your spending decisions and turn off your money if you disobey Biden drops $Millions to detect microaggressions on social media. "FUCK Joe Biden. -- Internet"

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Happy New Year
by grarpamp 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1608808187129659392 https://thecountersignal.com/elons-transparency-policy-shows-nobody-reads-t…

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Journalists Signal Group riddled with police-spies
by professor rat 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

As if Wicked-Licks wasn't bad enough . . . >>> A Signal group frequented, as Val describes it, by “some of the greatest journalists, some of the greatest activists, some of the greatest hackers, some of the greatest writers.” This was all true enough, though the “greatest hackers” in question numbered just half a dozen and would gradually turn out to be made up of FBI cooperators like Val himself — plus a few more exotic specimens, such as the US counter-intelligence operative . . . <<< https://barrettbrown.medium.com/the-barrett-brown-review-of-arts-and-letter… Reposts don' need no steenkin' journalist badges

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Blacknet seeks military intelligence
by professor rat 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

If there is such a thing - nosecone plans for the latest strike fighter should suffice. BlackNet is currently building its information inventory. We are interested > in information in the following areas, though any other juicy stuff is > always welcome. "If you think it's valuable, offer it to us first." > > - trade secrets, processes, production methods (esp. in semiconductors) > - nanotechnology and related techniques (esp. the Merkle sleeve bearing) > - chemical manufacturing and rational drug design (esp. fullerines and > protein folding) > - new product plans, from children's toys to cruise missiles (anything on > "3DO"?) > - business intelligence, mergers, buyouts, rumors https://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks&m=85281708903254&w=2

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Trump Tax Returns Show How Write-Offs Shrank What He Owed to IRS
by Gunnar Larson 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

Trump Tax Returns Show How Write-Offs Shrank What He Owed to IRS https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-30/democrats-release-donald…

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Millions signed a petition demanding anonymity be lifted.
by professor rat 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

Transparency for the powerful in Korea today - give the people what they want. >> Officers made an exception to the longstanding South Korean custom of protecting criminals' identities, after millions signed a petition demanding anonymity be lifted. Cho Ju-bin was paraded in front of media outside a Seoul police station. << https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-31/cyber-hell-south-korea-investigates-… Reposts not bullshit and bad-faith attempts by USG agents to spam this list from New England

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BTC - WL synchronicities
by professor rat 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

COINTELPRO agent Semich reported >>> I was thinking your posts looked a little similar to each other, including the approach to threading. Do you use a custom tool? <<< If there's ever a list consensus that my posts look so similar they amount to spam I would have to retire or else risk being hunted down, stalked, rendered alive and slowly tortured to death. Suicide in a word. But thanks for the heads-up that you may be considering making your posts look more similar to each other. It shows the deep, state-terrorist animus you have for all of us here on top of your govt job. And as for my custom tool, well, I save that for private sessions with the mothers hole you came out of. SEAR ' Blacks on Blonds ".

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Sam Bankman-Fried to Plead Not Guilty to Fraud at Jan. 3 Hearing
by Gunnar Larson 31 Dec '22

31 Dec '22

Sam Bankman-Fried to Plead Not Guilty to Fraud at Jan. 3 Hearing https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-30/sam-bankman-fried-to-ple…

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