November 2020 - cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

GRARPAMP garbage
by professor rat 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

Cypherpunks is a discussion list for how public-key-crypto can help enable networked anarchism. Engineers and coding Mavens? - Coderpunks is two clicks over. Which gets me to imbeciles like " Karl ' and " Gramps ". If you don't get anarchism, that's fine. Being an ignorant dumbass is not a crime. But please stop spamming us with your timewasting, gasbagging, paranoid dribbling BULLSHIT. TIA.

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An engineering foundation for supra dimensional perception by humans
by Zenaan Harkness 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

We think of the world around us as "3 dimensional". This "dimensionality" is a construct (on an axis of "some degree of" utility) to assist thought, picturing, and/or communication about, our experience of our presumed existence - more accurately, about our experience of experience (we could say "experience of perception" but that posits perception). Back to engineering? Firstly some visual maths, since at heart we are all visual learners :D Mathematically, in our perception we are said to be engaged in a "reducing" or reduction of complexity problem, for which problem in our analog domain of existence, the human organism seems efficiently adapted. For the beginner, start with the problem of reducing a 2 dimesional image, a circle on a sheet of paper, to 1 dimension - i.e. points and segments on a line. (A circle reduces to point(s) whereas a disc reduces to a segment (finite or "short" line) as they "pass through" the "line of perception", respectively.) So imagine ("image within") a piece of paper with a long line on it, and a circle "falling through" that "line of perception" - that is, when any part of the circle is touching the line, it appears as a point when it first touches the line, or as two points as it crosses through the line. Adding the "dimension" of time, and a circle moving with "linear velocity" down our page, the points on the line expand apart, then come back together, finally disappearing as the circle passes completely through the line - those two points in this scenario move apart from one another (and vice versa) on our line of perception with a velocity which would appear as a "sine wave" if graphed. So in this first example we have "reduced 3D to 2D" in this "problem of perceiving a 2D circle, in 1 dimension" i.e. from the point of view of a single dimension (our line of perception). Analogously we can reduce a 3 dimensional object to 2 dimensions, and a canonical example, the sphere "moving through" a piece of paper or "plane of perception". This can of course be extended to a 3 dimensional "volume of perception" and the analogous "4D spheroid" as it moves through the volume of perception appearing as first a tiny but growing sphere, reaches it's "largest perceived" spherical size as observed from the volume of perception, and then similarly reducing and finally disappearing. So that's the geometric ("mathematical") visualization needed as our starting point. Now "engineering". We start with our eye. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye The human eye has a planar (hemispherical or rather concave for practical purposes, but we may set this aside for our purpose of understanding) component called the retina. The retina contains special photosensitive cells which operate (biach i oper ate) as a real time camera ("photographic sensor") "taking pictures of" our 3 dimesional delusion thus down converting "reality" into a "two dimensional image" for easier processing by our brains. The concavity of the retina maximises field of view for a given pixel (photosensitive cell) density. We have 2 eyes, which is handy if we lose or damage one, and also allows the brain to construct a far more accurate "representation of reality" within our minds, since the light ("pixel" intensity, color and location) 'offsets' or deltas, provides the data necessary for depth calculations. Perception is a function of many things (not least e.g. inebriation) including bandwidth, frequency, sesitivity, interference, noise and more - all of which may be applied to the eye as much as to cameras. Next example is the ear - our ears pick up "sound" vibrations. Two ears collect sufficient data for the brain to process out ("reduce") to some degree, the 3 dimensionality of the sound (where it comes from, is it moving in space time?) and our environment (are there objects in my en#vironment reflecting the sound?). The ears are comprised of a spiral form - a sea-shell type cavity increasing the distance over which sound vibrations are sampled within the sound sampling cavity, and also filtering for frequency over that distance, maximising per-Hz sensitivity and spatial information (this description is a bit loose - feel free to try to describe this more accurately). The spiral provides a physical space condensing or reduction of space required for given operating characteristics, and increasing the bandwidth of (at least "possible") frequency sampling. Putting this together, a single iris is inherently planar, reducing a volumetric target of observation to a planar representation for processing and analysis, the ear is a spiral, providing a similar signal data reduction function, although seems to be more like a line than a plane, and when we have two such spatially separated data collection points, the signal processing unit (brain) can deduce 3 dimesionality from the two 2D data sampling/reduction units (or in the case of the ears, quite arguably 1D data sampling/reduction units!). That is we can say: - the down sampling ('reduction of dimensionality') makes the data analysis and signal transmission loads practical, and - the duplication of the (down) sampling unit, at sufficiently disparate locations, allows the data processing unit to reconstruct certain of the higher order (in this case 3) dimensionality So duplication of a 2 dimesional signal sampler, provides for reconstruction (in some form) of a 3 dimensional signal. And so we could argue that triplication (or more) of a 2 dimensional signal sampler could possibly provide for a 4 dimensional reconstruction of sorts. We can use signal analysis physics/ math to determine parameters of dimesionality which might be "in the haystack" of reduced or down-sampled data, and different frequency and energy limits etc ("that's like, vibrations, dood!"). Finally, and here's a kicker, insufficient signal sampling sensitivity may be overcome with sufficient sampling device replication (and also with increased device sensitivity): As the "2D retina photosensitive cells array" is to "3D space" … … so too the "3D helix gene bath of cells in our body" is to "4D supra dimesional space". You are an aerial complex - tune yourself, know thyself, go within.

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I've been talking to USG LEO's
by professor rat 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

I've been talking to them every year since 2009. My message is very clear. I want youse to SURRENDER to the internet in the following way. 1) Liberate all the Drug War prisoners - state and federal. 2) Revive the PAM FutureMAP market site from 2003 - that can then handle the defeat-in-detail arrangements. 3) Pissed off at the slow response, I added the following demand a couple of years ago. Use the term " APster ' when you announce these changes. SURRENDER DOROTHY #Denning The American century was over by 2005 and anarchy won. Hasta luego, Uncle Scam.

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Liberation: Is not Innovations in digital government
by grarpamp 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

> http://dgsociety.org/dgo-2021/call-for-proposals/ > liberatory ideas > government (or governance) These are mutually exclusive. > governance > anarchic These are mututally exclusive. > Digital Government Research > innovations in digital politics and government Permanent lifelong intergenerational databases of all lives, transactions, words, thoughts, love, DNA, surveillance, spying, lightswitch digital control of the "misinformation" that is your mind and body, censorship, rampant media bias, forced lockdown and inoculation, license logon and permission required for all daily activities including authenticating to your toilet bowl for the morning piss, checkpointed biometric embedded body tags, papers please travel, encryption bans, firearm bans, 6G reporting in realtime, facial gait voice analysis, web bugs, NSA, GovCorp in everything you do, and much much more you despots have yet to dream up, beyond all above which you've already implemented. > models of governance All such in all symposiums on same on this so called "liberation" list in recent years have all been, disgustingly, about how to keep building further structures of enslavement over other harmless humans who've done nothing to you, through forcing yourself and your will over them, ultimately under threat of death. You are guilty. So for remainder of this month, instead of titillating yourselves over yet another such boring and wrong conference... go search, read, and watch... Voluntaryism, Libertarian, peace love and Anarchism, Taxation is Theft, War is Murder, Austrian Economics / Free Markets, Bitcoin documentaries, Anarcho Capitalism, Non Aggression Principle, Natural Law, etc... and yes, even... > crypto-anarchism Anything but yet more forcing yourself over others via non "liberatory ideas" scam of "democracy" and digital govern[ment|nance]. Then come back and talk about what actions of ungovernance need done towards reaching living in an actual state of liberation. Because what's being talked 100:1 on this list has absolutely not been actual liberation, nor even tech, but more politically entrenched systems of GovCorp power and control. That's very bad. For you. And your children. And you know it.

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Re: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 89, Issue 27
by frank mcelligott 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

She owes the atlanta hawks..... Richer than Biden -----Original Message----- From: cypherpunks-request(a)lists.cpunks.org Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 4:03 PM To: cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 89, Issue 27 Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cypherpunks-request(a)lists.cpunks.org You can reach the person managing the list at cypherpunks-owner(a)lists.cpunks.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 2. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (\0xDynamite) 3. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 4. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 5. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 6. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Zenaan Harkness) 7. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:46:04 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf> Cc: cypherpunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e5reL+078Qt4DdRjbW7vOp7BtC8tF32afT=rw38GgUs1Q(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:33 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks(a)tfwno.gf> wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 15:24:30 -0500 > Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:38 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks(a)tfwno.gf> > > wrote: > > > > you need to identify people to make 'votes unalterable' - the > > > very opposite of anonimity. > > > > I see you expressing some of the things you usually express. I don't > > believe your assumption here is true: you can make votes unalterable > > and not identify people. I'm not a cryptographer. > > > even if there's some crypto trick to do something that looks kinda > anonymous, you still have to identify which people are 'authorized' to > vote. Authority being of course the keyword here. In reality voting is a > wholly statist mechanism that takes for granted the 'authority' of the > state or other mafia and the absurd idea that mob majority rule has any > legitimacy at all. Here, realize that voting is a crude analogy for _actual real communication where we make decisions together_ omigod. > > If we want to fix the current political problems it may be a good > idea to first identify them. > > > > > 'underground' network using broadcast radio and NSA hardware? > > > And what would you do with your 'underground' network anyway? Use it > > > to talk to government agents? > > > > > Obviously, the answer is to finally talk with people who aren't > > government agents. > > Yeah, but how do you know who is an agent in an 'underground' and > (hopefully) anonymous network? wasn't my joke funny? my joke was so funny! it was funny because we can't talk about it =( so jokes are the only way =( this is also a half-joke =) > > Anyway, an actually anonymous network may weaken the power of > govcorp somewhat but it's hardly a panacea. And what I was getting at is > that writing programs is pointless if people don't use the programs. So > even if you had a working design for say an anonymous network, it woud > still have to be 'deployed', which is something the users themselves would > have to do. Which in turn requires the users to be aware of various > technical and political issues, et cetera. any mobile app business can relate that it is easy to get people to run a program, and any blockchain developer can tell you that it is easy to get them to keep doing it. random idea from thousands: app #1: "how to have fun sniffing your friends network traffic, seeing and altering their secret conversations. btw pay us $5 if you don't want your friends messages randomly altered to alert that you are watching them, with helpful information on community project app #2" app #2: "cool anonymity network! nobody can see you chat!" ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 16:48:26 -0600 From: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> To: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CAMjeLr_9_nEaHKZkb_xth64e8btxVUgNnHECmf8uaiAdAA2t6A(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hmmm, I'm not sure what curl is supposed to do, when I tried it on http rather than https, I got 301: moved permanently. When I tried known sites like mit.edu, I got a 302: moved permanently. So what should it do? On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:04 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:41 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > It works. But try wiki.hackerspaces.org. > > I don't understand what you mean by `it works`. What do you think of > this terminal snippet? > ``` > $ curl -v https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/ > * About to connect() to wiki.hackerspaces.org port 443 (#0) > * Trying 212.12.52.48... > * Connected to wiki.hackerspaces.org (212.12.52.48) port 443 (#0) > * Initializing NSS with certpath: sql:/etc/pki/nssdb > * CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt > CApath: none > * SSL connection using TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 > * Server certificate: > * subject: CN=wiki.hackspaces.org > * start date: Oct 30 01:00:18 2020 GMT > * expire date: Jan 28 01:00:18 2021 GMT > * common name: wiki.hackspaces.org > * issuer: CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3,O=Let's Encrypt,C=US > > GET / HTTP/1.1 > > User-Agent: curl/7.29.0 > > Host: wiki.hackerspaces.org > > Accept: */* > > > < HTTP/1.1 504 Gateway Time-out > < Server: nginx > < Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:03:40 GMT > < Content-Type: text/html > < Content-Length: 160 > < Connection: keep-alive > < > <html> > <head><title>504 Gateway Time-out</title></head> > <body> > <center><h1>504 Gateway Time-out</h1></center> > <hr><center>nginx</center> > </body> > </html> > * Connection #0 to host wiki.hackerspaces.org left intact > ``` > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:50 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 3:22 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So which do you prefer: accountability or anonymity? The power > > > > > > goes > > > > > > both ways. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > > something? > > > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want > > > > one, > > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > > > > > > > > but all those things are controlled by political > > > > > > > power. 'information flow' is controlled by US corporations at > > > > > > > a global scale for instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > No these things are not just controlled by political power. > > > > > > > > > > I mean, abstract mathematics is obviously NOT controlled > > > > > by political power, but all the infrastructure clearly is. > > > > > > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not held > > > > in > > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic > > > > forces > > > > of simply wanting to get money. Snowden is a sheep in whistleblower > > > > clothing -- his "knowledge" of seekrit powers in tech devices is > > > > bullshit. There are also social forces driving things. > > > > Unfortunately > > > > the powers that run the world are at level 100 or so, while the > > > > people > > > > are generally at LVL 20 or less, so they get mystified, used, > > > > confused, and paranoid. You've fallen under it because you don't > > > > have mastery of the tech. That's all. Get a degree and become a > > > > real > > > > expert or learn by yourself by following paths online, like the one > > > > I > > > > put on hackerspaces.org (OneTruePath). OR, get this, simply be > > > > > > 504 Gateway Error over here, and not on archive.org . > > > > > > > respectful to other people who HAVE done this work and learn > > > > something > > > > from THEM. > > > > > > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > > > > > > Point being, cryptography by itself will get you nowhere, > > > > > AND cryptography is a pretty toxic tool in the hands of the > > > > > political powers that control its practical application. > > > > > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. And what is it > > > > that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, creative culture, > > > > radical love, ....) > > > > > > > > \0xD ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:50:51 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e4W52enCszRgVpQCndVS_KwBJzLraDQdw8kAEMYa5vcNg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:37 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Really? I know how to find philes I want -- if I need them. Do you? > > > > what files are you talking about? the_bible.pdf? > > Lolz, that one's legal to copy, for the most part. Why did you make a > personal attack? Are you unable to use reason alone? personal attacks is how punk-stasi is most free to communicate. i don't believe they are meant personally. > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > something? > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want one, > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > dude. What do you think you're teaching me, exactly? *I* pointed > > out *first* that 'accountable' voting and anonimity are at odds. Learn 2 > > read. > > Regardless of your anarchist philosophy, you seek leaders. Perhaps > because deep in your DNA you know these questions were already > answered. So, if you have leaders, you'll want accountability. you can even have accountability without leaders! re: anonymity: for example we could reduce the network time allocated to behaviors that result in harm to a consensus algorithm, challenging people who desire to transmit such traffic, to support efforts to improve that algorithm in some way. > > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not held in > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic forces > > > of simply wanting to get money. > > > > all of the hardware is manufactured by corporations that are > > just arms of the government. So like I said, at the root there's only > > political power. > > Corps are not just arms of the government, unless you want to talk > about octopus-type arms of the all-seeing-eye. In the octopus, each > arm is an individual and acts separately, but they share at least some > common desire or core. It could be survival in the case of America, > at this point. to add some third viewpoint, some people describe strong coercive power as 'the real government' > > > > Snowden is a sheep in whistleblower clothing -- his "knowledge" of > > > seekrit powers in tech devices is bullshit. > > > > not sure how snowden got into the picture? Oh sorry yeah. You're > > ranting. > > You're not sure. That's a good start. > > > > You've fallen under it because you don't have mastery of the tech. > > > > wut > > The response of the nubile who's been caught, wanting to know how I > can know something that you never revealed. > > > > Get a degree and become a real expert or learn by yourself by > > > following paths online > > > > what do you want me to learn, exactly? > > Some real computer science, or at least some programming, maybe math. > > > > simply be respectful to other people who HAVE done this work > > > > LMAO! What 'work' are you talking about > > Mastering the tech that you say is controlled by governments, duh. > > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > a jew-fascist like you shouldn't badmouth his betters. Your > > knowledge of political philosophy is a lot worse than non-existent. Your > > knowledge of 'tech' is prolly just as bad. > > You're just being a loudmouth. Either have some real Truth, skills, > or try somewhere else than cypherpunks to get relevance. > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. > > > > what 'law' are you talking about here? > > > > > And what is it that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, > > > creative culture, > > > radical love) > > > > those things are obviously against all government laws. So which > > law is this law you mentioned? > > Tell me, punk, is the law more powerful than Man? > > Marxos ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:52:01 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e46OBC2JsihzrkXPMjUnjdjvkndxY7rgeQCPU9xnQtvLw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:41 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > So which do you prefer: accountability or anonymity? The power > > > > > goes > > > > > both ways. Pick one. > > > > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > something? > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want one, > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > We were mind controlled to take over the world, but we have learned to > > resist. > > > > Aims, like anonymity and accountability, are not contrary. They all > > can be accomplished together. > > You're probably talking about the election and the voting process. I > was speaking generally. The only law is time, who holds no sides. > > Casting aims as contrary was a way to reduce the power of the masses. > > You're right. In theory you could achieve both with a second layer, a > layer of indirection. Asking for ID to get into the voting booth, > which just has to keep track that you haven't voted already and > separate the act of voting, which can be anonymized by concealed > ballots. > > \0xD ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:56:52 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e6XMC_mbMVpfjJQ+_75oGxPBA0QD8LeDi71_1VDic7MnA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Curl performs an HTTP request, like a web browser does as the first thing when you visit a website. I didn't know you were unfamiliar with curl or I wouldn't have pasted the output to you. The output includes details that would help the administrator of wiki.hackerspaces.org relate around the issue I experience. But if you can paste your output, it would help me understand what is going on, myself, and others on the list too if they have interest. 301 and 302 mean the url is forwarding you somewhere else. It should say where else it is forwarding you to, notably in the `Location: ` header if you pass `-v`. Pass `-L` to automatically follow those redirects. On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:48 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hmmm, I'm not sure what curl is supposed to do, when I tried it on > http rather than https, I got 301: moved permanently. > > When I tried known sites like mit.edu, I got a 302: moved permanently. > > So what should it do? > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:04 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:41 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > It works. But try wiki.hackerspaces.org. > > > > I don't understand what you mean by `it works`. What do you think of > > this terminal snippet? > > ``` > > $ curl -v https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/ > > * About to connect() to wiki.hackerspaces.org port 443 (#0) > > * Trying 212.12.52.48... > > * Connected to wiki.hackerspaces.org (212.12.52.48) port 443 (#0) > > * Initializing NSS with certpath: sql:/etc/pki/nssdb > > * CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt > > CApath: none > > * SSL connection using TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 > > * Server certificate: > > * subject: CN=wiki.hackspaces.org > > * start date: Oct 30 01:00:18 2020 GMT > > * expire date: Jan 28 01:00:18 2021 GMT > > * common name: wiki.hackspaces.org > > * issuer: CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3,O=Let's Encrypt,C=US > > > GET / HTTP/1.1 > > > User-Agent: curl/7.29.0 > > > Host: wiki.hackerspaces.org > > > Accept: */* > > > > > < HTTP/1.1 504 Gateway Time-out > > < Server: nginx > > < Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:03:40 GMT > > < Content-Type: text/html > > < Content-Length: 160 > > < Connection: keep-alive > > < > > <html> > > <head><title>504 Gateway Time-out</title></head> > > <body> > > <center><h1>504 Gateway Time-out</h1></center> > > <hr><center>nginx</center> > > </body> > > </html> > > * Connection #0 to host wiki.hackerspaces.org left intact > > ``` > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:50 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 3:22 PM \0xDynamite > > > > <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So which do you prefer: accountability or anonymity? The > > > > > > > power goes > > > > > > > both ways. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't > > > > > > cypherpunks advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach > > > > > you something? > > > > > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want > > > > > one, > > > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > but all those things are controlled by political > > > > > > > > power. 'information flow' is controlled by US corporations > > > > > > > > at a global scale for instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No these things are not just controlled by political power. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, abstract mathematics is obviously NOT controlled > > > > > > by political power, but all the infrastructure clearly is. > > > > > > > > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not > > > > > held in > > > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic > > > > > forces > > > > > of simply wanting to get money. Snowden is a sheep in > > > > > whistleblower > > > > > clothing -- his "knowledge" of seekrit powers in tech devices is > > > > > bullshit. There are also social forces driving things. > > > > > Unfortunately > > > > > the powers that run the world are at level 100 or so, while the > > > > > people > > > > > are generally at LVL 20 or less, so they get mystified, used, > > > > > confused, and paranoid. You've fallen under it because you don't > > > > > have mastery of the tech. That's all. Get a degree and become a > > > > > real > > > > > expert or learn by yourself by following paths online, like the > > > > > one I > > > > > put on hackerspaces.org (OneTruePath). OR, get this, simply be > > > > > > > > 504 Gateway Error over here, and not on archive.org . > > > > > > > > > respectful to other people who HAVE done this work and learn > > > > > something > > > > > from THEM. > > > > > > > > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > > > > > > > > Point being, cryptography by itself will get you > > > > > > nowhere, AND cryptography is a pretty toxic tool in the hands of > > > > > > the political powers that control its practical application. > > > > > > > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. And what is > > > > > it > > > > > that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, creative culture, > > > > > radical love, ....) > > > > > > > > > > \0xD ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 09:58:31 +1100 From: Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> To: cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <20201109225831.GB1391165(a)eye.freedbms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Nov 09, 2020 at 01:59:51PM -0500, Karl wrote: > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 1:40 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks(a)tfwno.gf> > wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:52:02 -0500 > > Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Many of us have ways to make the world right, > > > but so long as our actions can be predicted, it doesn't seem easy to > > > pursue them, and pursuing them may have consequences. > > > > > > I don't think prediction is the problem but numbers. If enough > > people want to burn down amazon and google, the 'prediction' won't stop > > them. > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have advice on what software developers can do during this > > > time, to help the situation? > > > > how can computer programers fix a political problem? > > I stand by blockchain technologies that prevent the isolation of > communities and provide immutable public records. Cryptography can > make votes unalterable, Cryptography unfortunately can't stop the dead from voting. > dialogue unhidable. Math could show clear > statistics of what influences behavior and information flow, and for > whom. > > But computer programers share with you the malady that problems are > for 'fixing'. > > > > > > > > > Personally, I have no idea how to communicate with people who refuse > > > to harm anyone, to work on solutions with them. > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 20:03:21 -0300 From: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf> To: <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <20201109230357.324F411C036D(a)pglaf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 16:36:14 -0600 "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Really? I know how to find philes I want -- if I need them. Do you? > > > > what files are you talking about? the_bible.pdf? > > Lolz, that one's legal to copy, 'legal' according to whom? Oh yeah 'legal' according to your government masters. > for the most part. Why did you make a > personal attack? Are you unable to use reason alone? I can pretty well call you an idiot while shredding to pieces your nonsense. The 'personal attack' is just a side note, snowflake. Not to mention where is the personal attack, anyway? You are an evil theocratic nutcase. > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > something? > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want one, > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > dude. What do you think you're teaching me, exactly? *I* pointed > > out *first* that 'accountable' voting and anonimity are at odds. Learn 2 > > read. > > Regardless of your anarchist philosophy, you seek leaders. What the fuck are you taking about, son. Oh, you're changing the subject after realizing that you were 'teaching' me the very same thing *I* mentioned first. > Perhaps > because deep in your DNA you know these questions were already > answered. So, if you have leaders, you'll want accountability. what - the fuck - are you talking about. I know that the problem is the cowardly fucktards like you, your bible and your 'leaders', and I don't 'want leaders'. > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not held in > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic forces > > > of simply wanting to get money. > > > > all of the hardware is manufactured by corporations that are > > just arms of the government. So like I said, at the root there's only > > political power. > > Corps are not just arms of the government, of course they are. > unless you want to talk about octopus-type arms of the all-seeing-eye. In > the octopus, each > arm is an individual and acts separately, but they share at least some > common desire or core. It could be survival in the case of America, > at this point. lawl. Are you drunk? Or is that your 'religious' insanity showing again? > > > > Snowden is a sheep in whistleblower clothing -- his "knowledge" of > > > seekrit powers in tech devices is bullshit. > > > > not sure how snowden got into the picture? Oh sorry yeah. You're > > ranting. > > You're not sure. That's a good start. I was mocking you. "I'm not sure" meant "what the fuck has snowden got to do with anything". > > > > You've fallen under it because you don't have mastery of the tech. > > > > wut > > The response of the nubile who's been caught, wanting to know how I > can know something that you never revealed. WUT - "wut" means what-are-you-talking-about - again. So far you've shown you don't know what you're talking about. As always. So I'm anything but a 'surprised nubile'. > > > > Get a degree and become a real expert or learn by yourself by > > > following paths online > > > > what do you want me to learn, exactly? > > Some real computer science, or at least some programming, maybe math. I know c++, python and assembler among other languages. Is that enough? Oh wait, knowing how to program computers has fuck to do with any real solution to political problems, go figure. > > > > simply be respectful to other people who HAVE done this work > > > > LMAO! What 'work' are you talking about > > Mastering the tech that you say is controlled by governments, duh. OK, you are just another government agent parroting the lie that fucktards are 'free' because they (you) made a website with more government propaganda and know how to 'program' some javashit malware. > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > a jew-fascist like you shouldn't badmouth his betters. Your > > knowledge of political philosophy is a lot worse than non-existent. Your > > knowledge of 'tech' is prolly just as bad. > > You're just being a loudmouth. Either have some real Truth, skills, > or try somewhere else than cypherpunks to get relevance. uh oh. I think calling out governmetn assholes like you is a relevant thing for 'cypherpunks'. > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. > > > > what 'law' are you talking about here? > > > > > And what is it that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, > > > creative culture, > > > radical love) > > > > those things are obviously against all government laws. So which > > law is this law you mentioned? > > Tell me, punk, is the law more powerful than Man? again, what nonsense are you babbling. Answer what law were you talking about. You can't answer because you can't even keep track of your ignorant, fascist rants. Instead of 'learning' how to 'program' a stupid ARPANET WEBSITE you should go to the library and learn political philosophy, for starters. > > Marxos ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ cypherpunks mailing list cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org https://lists.cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks ------------------------------ End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 89, Issue 27 *******************************************

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Laws, Tech, "Peace"s of the Puzzle
by Karl 09 Nov '20

09 Nov '20

What do we need? [sorry, i started writing this, but only got public-transparency out. can you add to it or clear it up?] ====> Productive, clear, honest discourse must be protected from disruption [laws can help provide for this] [decentralised technology can help this, by providing ways of managing exposure to others' behavior with anonymity and censorship resistance] [mostly this requires acting on some very clear experience-rooted discourse, and defense of the people able to have that discourse.] ====> Authority and government must have complete public transparency. Secret wars are already too much escalation of conflict. This could be done with simply laws to provide for it. This is obviously a good thing, and that is demonstrated by how it will emerge on its own as blockchain video/audio/data-logging technology grows. Any work on on-chain video/audio/data-logging seems helpful to me. ====> Accountability processes must be accessible and honest. [this can also be produced with laws that improve our legal system, such as work near community-led restorative justice] [this also emerges on its own from blockchain technologies]

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Re re 2012
by professor rat 09 Nov '20

09 Nov '20

If there is any testable variation then the best estimate we have for it should make that test regime easier; yes? Now what I find most significant about these three papers is the specifically cryptographic approach. Your mileage may vary. Maybe Jim, or fellow cypherpunk revolutionists can drill down with ' Professor Google " and find some earlier examples using crypto to probe quantum-physics &/or cosmology. Its would be a huge boost for cryptoanarchy were the TOE ( or GUT - grand unified theory ) be discovered to be based on what looks more and more ( Sear " Wheeler, H. Pagels, S. Lloyd " ) like a public-key-encryption universe. No string theory below us - above us only ...anything! If any Indymedia - smelling-cat style guerrilla journo's are lurking, I'd also appreciate a work up on the good professor Rhodes. I would do it myself but I'm no spring chicken any more and have had four operations since I was last here around 2003. Yrs in anarchist revolution Grumpy old man Matt

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Does debian distributes chromium with unpatched known bugs?
by Georgi Guninski 08 Nov '20

08 Nov '20

There was some discussion on the debian security mailing list and it suggests debian distributes chromium with known public exploits which are fixed upstream: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/chromium Does debian distributes chromium with unpatched known bugs?

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2012
by professor rat 08 Nov '20

08 Nov '20

Cryptographic Theoretical Calculation of the Fine-Structure Constant Unique Physically Anchored Cryptographic Theoretical Calculation of the Fine-Structure Constant α Matching both the g/2 and Interferometric High-Precision Measurements | | | | Unique Physically Anchored Cryptographic Theoretical Calculation of the ... The fine-structure constant α, the dimensionless number that represents the strength of electromagnetic coupling... | | | 24 Dec 2012 Direct Cryptographic Computation of the Cosmological Constant ΩΛ Charles Kirkham Rhodes A direct cryptographic computation of the Cosmological Constant https://arxiv.org/abs/1212.5941 2010 - Fine structure constant. Cosmological constant - 2012

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Hettinger Logorhea 2 - This time its personal
by professor rat 08 Nov '20

08 Nov '20

Child of the corn, Robert Hettinger, has achieved great seniority in the OG circle-of-eunuchs - so scuttling little cockroaches - like Jamesd - need to constantly attend his every need. And our resident giant jellyfish* of finance also knows so much about intellectual bankruptcy from constant practice. Now the Mongo president is dead...long live the Mongo president! * Another creature without a backbone and prone to drift

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