On Dec 11, 2016 10:06 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote:

Nice to know there's a clear demarcation of that which can be spoken of

and investigated, vs. that which cannot, should not and must not. Z., I know you are not an intelligent person, very slow and limited, and it can be very hard to understand when thinking is an exhaustive exercise, but try to make a little effort this time, please. ** You do _NOT_ have the right of hurting Aaron's family and friends sharing lies and old stupid conspiracy theories as being "an investigation". Please, respect their pain, respect Aaron's memory and legacy. ** You don't have a heart, but their heart is still broken. The pain still hurts. Another year is ending without him. His birthday was one month ago, but he is not alive to celebrate it again. Do you know how much painful is to his family reading another freaky conspiration theory about Aaron's death? Please, again I ask, respect Aaron's family and friends. No crazy lies. No stupid conspiracy theories about his life and death. Cecilia

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 07:18:58PM -0700, Mirimir wrote:

On 12/11/2016 05:53 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

...

On 12/11/2016 06:46 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:

...

Z.,

** DO _NOT_ DARE TO TALK ANY SH*T ABOUT AARON. **

Agreed, this is a pretty egregious deviation from standards of basic decency. Even the most liberal of moderators would probably not let a list subscriber get away with this; that's exactly why this list needs some kind of moderation. (NOT censorship, moderation.)

Well, Z_n does post shitloads of links. Some of them, and lately, most of them, are vile shit. But it's my working hypothesis that Z_n is merely a typical shit-posting troll. Who crawled forth from one of the chans, or whatever. His goal is simply to upset people.

So, as with any troll, it's best to ignore him. Rather than call for moderation, why not just filter his messages? I would never have seen this, except that Ceci redacted his name. So why should I care what Z_n or other trolls write to this list? I can't control their speech, and I believe that attempting it would be immoral.

As pointed out previously, Juan has a nice official Safe Space for you "Mirimir" :D -- * Certified Deplorable Neo-Nazi Fake News Hunter (TM)(C)(R) * Executive Director of Triggers, Ministry of Winning * Weapons against traditional \/\/European\/\/ values: http://davidduke.com/jewish-professor-boasts-of-jewish-pornography-used-as-a... * How Liberal Lefties view the world: http://bbs.dailystormer.com/uploads/default/optimized/3X/0/4/042cb95724339d5...

On 12/11/2016 07:28 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On 12/11/2016 08:18 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...

So, as with any troll, it's best to ignore him. Rather than call for moderation, why not just filter his messages? I would never have seen this, except that Ceci redacted his name. So why should I care what Z_n or other trolls write to this list? I can't control their speech, and I believe that attempting it would be immoral.

Because the list as a whole is devalued by the continued lack of moderation. This is not whitesupremistneonazipunks, this is cypherpunks. I am not challenging his freedom of speech, but this is not the forum for that. It would be perfectly on-topic for a neo-nazi or KKK list. That is not this list!

I get your concern. Naive users, coming across these messages through search sites, might get a bad impression. But please consider that freedom and autonomy are key cypherpunk values. Along with technical competence. So the best outcome is helping people manage unmoderated lists on their own, without reliance on centralized control. Also, please consider that causing grief is the key goal for trolls. And consider how forcing an ideologically unmoderated list to moderate itself would be _such_ a fucking win for Z_n. No?

On 12/11/2016 08:09 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On 12/11/2016 08:58 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...

On 12/11/2016 07:28 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

...

On 12/11/2016 08:18 PM, Mirimir wrote:

...

So, as with any troll, it's best to ignore him. Rather than call for moderation, why not just filter his messages? I would never have seen this, except that Ceci redacted his name. So why should I care what Z_n or other trolls write to this list? I can't control their speech, and I believe that attempting it would be immoral.

Because the list as a whole is devalued by the continued lack of moderation. This is not whitesupremistneonazipunks, this is cypherpunks. I am not challenging his freedom of speech, but this is not the forum for that. It would be perfectly on-topic for a neo-nazi or KKK list. That is not this list!

I get your concern. Naive users, coming across these messages through search sites, might get a bad impression. But please consider that freedom and autonomy are key cypherpunk values. Along with technical competence. So the best outcome is helping people manage unmoderated lists on their own, without reliance on centralized control.

I disagree completely. It's like leaving a few people to do litter patrol when you have old refrigerators, tires, and abandoned cars being dumped daily. It's just not going to work.

Well, the Internet is loaded with such things. Many of them include IEDs. So some spam here hardly seems worth so much angst.

...

Also, please consider that causing grief is the key goal for trolls. And consider how forcing an ideologically unmoderated list to moderate itself would be _such_ a fucking win for Z_n. No?

It would be the same as police surveillance on a known dumping ground to catch the people dumping garbage there. Honestly, I fail to see how a list that's free of racist, neo-Nazi garbage isn't a win for the Rest Of Us.

But don't cypherpunks prototypically hate police surveillance? Sacrificing core values for convenience is unwise, no?

On 12/11/2016 09:21 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On 12/11/2016 09:36 PM, Mirimir wrote:

<SNIP>

...

But don't cypherpunks prototypically hate police surveillance?

Sacrificing core values for convenience is unwise, no?

Widespread, mass, untargeted surveillance I have a real problem with. The same with Fourth Amendment violations; nothing is Surveillance of a dumping ground as I described, in response to resident complaints, is at worst the lesser of two evils.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." So are we going to just sit here and do nothing?

I filter out what I don't want. Others do the same. I don't decide for others, and I want no one to decide for me.

On Dec 12, 2016 2:20 AM, "John Newman" wrote:

On December 11, 2016 11:47:20 PM EST, Mirimir wrote:

...

I filter out what I don't want. Others do the same. I don't decide for

others, and I want no one to decide for me. Agreed. I love the absence of moderation, even being a moderator in other discussion and mailing lists. We are a pretty heterogeneous group, with all kind of persons here. So, the best option, more coherent with a cypherpunk list and its anarchist ideals, would be to permiss that the own members regulate the list, with no centralized moderation, using -- or not! -- their good sense, self-moderation and filters. This list will auto-regulate itself in an organic and natural way, with the members' answers and comments, actions and reactions.

I think that's the final word on cypherpunks moderation. It's a terrible idea actually - who do we give powers of moderation to?

It would be pretty hard, almost impossible to be completely impartial here... An example: - I would deny this kind of responsability here because I would feel a 'censor' in this list, not a moderator. I certainly would kick-ban Zzz and eat a burrito to celebrate! :P "Burro" in Portuguese is "donkey" and, even being a substantive, it can be used as adjective to say that 'someone is stupid, limited'. Example: "Zz is very 'burro'. The diminutive would be "burrinho", but "burrito" would also be accepted as "little donkey" here and celebrate Zzz's expulsion eating burritos with much salsita, guacamole, lemon and lots of chiles ('peppers', not the 'meat chilli', please) would be great and pretty funny, yay!!! :D Or pizza, because Italian food is always perfect, one of the possible proofs of God's existence! #truelove (*-*) <3

Much simpler to do as Mirimir has suggested and do your own filtering; it's trivial to setup, as you must know =)

Good night, sweet dreams and much love, Cypherpunks. I'll try to get some sleep, listening to the rain and feeling its wonderful smell... <3 Ceci

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:58:52 -0700 Mirimir wrote:

On 12/11/2016 07:28 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

...

On 12/11/2016 08:18 PM, Mirimir wrote:

... the list as a whole is devalued by the continued lack of moderation. This is not whitesupremistneonazipunks, this is cypherpunks. I am not challenging his freedom of speech, but this is not the forum for that. It would be perfectly on-topic for a neo-nazi or KKK list. That is not this list!

I get your concern. Naive users, coming across these messages through search sites, might get a bad impression. But please consider that freedom and autonomy are key cypherpunk values.

It's quite funny that you talk to quinn as if he wasn't the biggest troll on the list. He doesn't subscribe to any cypherpunk value and his constant calls for moderation are 1000% pure trolling.

Along with technical competence. So the best outcome is helping people manage unmoderated lists on their own, without reliance on centralized control.

Also, please consider that causing grief is the key goal for trolls. And consider how forcing an ideologically unmoderated list to moderate itself would be _such_ a fucking win for Z_n. No?

No, it would be a fucking win for the totalitarian scumbag known as shawn quinn.

Sorry, Shawn, but I agree with Mirimir. No formal moderation, please. People should be able to use good sense and self-moderation. In last case, we always can use lots and lots of filters. I only accept moderation in extreme cases, like frequent spam attacks. Usually, I have to manage this kind of thing in an old list where I am one of moderators. Apparently, the words "hackers", "transparency" and "government" always attract creepy spammers and bots, brrr... :( Mirimir, my love, sorry for answering to the retard troll instead just ignore him, but that message hurt me a lot. I filter Zzz's messages and they are sent directly to the trash, but I have another filter only for Aaron and his name was mentioned in a very disgusting way. Aaron's name is not a dirty piece of bone for being in a mangy dog's mouth like Zzz. I know some of dearest Aaron's friends will probably read or listen about that stupid message, that ridiculous conspiracy theory, and I could not permiss this violation of his memory, of his friends and family feelings. I could not be silent knowing they would feel more pain than me, knowing how much it would hurt them... :'( Tender hugs and kisses, my dear Mirimir. It's raining here tonight. I always love the rain, the wonderful rain' smell, but in sad moments, I still think God is crying for us exactly like when I was a child... When possible, just for curiosity, watch a Japanese movie name "Ima, Ai Ni Yukimasu", my dear. I have different reasons, but I also love sunflowers and I am always waiting for the rains. It's a pretty sweet movie and I like the time lapses and the little butterfly effects. Be well and live more than me, my dear. I love you.

Riseup's spamassassin is set to incinerate erections Shawn.... Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on spoonbill.riseup.net X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Level: *********** X-Spam-Report: * -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no * trust * [65.50.255.19 listed in list.dnswl.org] * 1.5 BODY_ENHANCEMENT2 BODY: Information on getting larger body parts * 0.0 FORWARD_RELAY Appears to be relayed through list or forwarding * -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail * domains are different * 0.0 ENV_FROM_DIFF0 Envelope From differs from from (eg list) * 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider * (skquinn[at]rushpost.com) * -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0017] * -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's * domain * 0.1 CK_KARD_SIZE short, card virus size - avoid matches in long text * 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily * valid * 0.0 CK_419SIZE typical 419 size - avoid matches in long text * -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature * 2.0 DRUGS_ERECTILE Refers to an erectile drug * 3.1 KAM_VIAGRA6 Viagra Obfuscation Technique SPAM * 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and * EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different * -0.1 AM_TRUNCATED Compensate on large message for misfiring rules * 7.0 KAM_SEX Sexually Explicit SPAM / Penis Enlargement Scam X-Spam-Pyzor: Reported 0 times. X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=11.6 required=5.0 tests=AM_TRUNCATED,BAYES_00, BODY_ENHANCEMENT2,CK_419SIZE,CK_KARD_SIZE,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DRUGS_ERECTILE,ENV_FROM_DIFF0,FORWARD_RELAY, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, KAM_SEX,KAM_VIAGRA6,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.0 Delivered-To: rayzer@riseup.net On 12/11/2016 07:34 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

...

I only accept moderation in extreme cases, like frequent spam attacks. Usually, I have to manage this kind of thing in an old list where I am one of moderators. Apparently, the words "hackers", "transparency" and "government" always attract creepy spammers and bots, brrr... :( What the guy you call "Zzz" is doing *is* a spam attack. It's just in

On 12/11/2016 09:27 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: the form of white supremacist/neo-Nazi garbage that has little if any relation to the nominal topic of the list instead of fake Ray-Ban/Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, fake Viagra/Cialis, etc.

On 12/11/2016 07:34 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

...

I only accept moderation in extreme cases, like frequent spam attacks. Usually, I have to manage this kind of thing in an old list where I am one of moderators. Apparently, the words "hackers", "transparency" and "government" always attract creepy spammers and bots, brrr... :( What the guy you call "Zzz" is doing *is* a spam attack. It's just in

On 12/11/2016 09:27 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: the form of white supremacist/neo-Nazi garbage that has little if any relation to the nominal topic of the list instead of fake Ray-Ban/Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, fake Viagra/Cialis, etc.

On 12/11/2016 08:24 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On 12/11/2016 10:02 PM, Razer wrote:

...

Riseup's spamassassin is set to incinerate erections Shawn.... Don't they know that sometimes people actually talk about these things without actually hawking the actual products? I think the spam filter needs retraining.

From their FAQ. Tip: OK -- one suggestion which actually does relate to SpamAssassin rules; don't include gratuitous references to spam subjects. Don't talk about rolex watches, sexually oriented activities or drugs, or debt treatment, unless those topics directly relate to your email. And if they do, limit your email to one topic at a time. An email which mentions rolex watches, Viagra, porn, and debt all in one email will very possibly hit several rules that flag it as spam, even if everything else is clear.

https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/AvoidingFpsForSenders https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/FrequentlyAskedQuestions Rr

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/11/2016 07:53 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On 12/11/2016 06:46 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:

...

Z.,

** DO _NOT_ DARE TO TALK ANY SH*T ABOUT AARON. **

Agreed, this is a pretty egregious deviation from standards of basic decency. Even the most liberal of moderators would probably not let a list subscriber get away with this; that's exactly why this list needs some kind of moderation. (NOT censorship, moderation.)

Once upon a time, USENET was a Thing. Moderation a.k.a. "censorship all right thinking people endorse" was impossible for technical reasons. That did not matter much at first, but then came Eternal September and the waves of clueless lusers, followed fast by spammers looking to fleece the lusers. At once, the Flame Warriors rose up and successfully defended the more sophisticated newsgroups from drowning in a rising tide of trash. Then the "real Internet" overshadowed USENET, and even the Ents who were old when the networks were young went West. USENET's infrastructure was colonized, unopposed, by commercial data piracy services. If CPunks can not survive a minor influx of weak minded wannabes brought here by a "hactivist" fashion trend without resort to censorship, it does not deserve to live. Where are our Flame Warriors? Has the sword that was broken been forgotten and lost, or can it be made whole again? Pending the verdict of history, I would encourage users who know what they don't want to see here to publish lists of addresses recommended for filtering. Explaining the criteria that qualify subscribers for the killfiles provided, along with pleas that a Moderator apply these criteria to silence all unworthy voices, may provide some amusement. In this day and age, "wasted bandwidth" in a list that does not forward binary attachments is Not A Thing. Those who can't stand the clutter can killfile non-contributing posters at will. Those who can't figure out how to do that or think "it's too haaaard" don't matter because they don't qualify as "technically competent" and don't belong here anyway, amirite? :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYTigwAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq+oEH/i0VZBaZmHtuN7YyqHLJk5Tg YTAv3z5pAZz4A3oqUW34O0lTCe+yPBSkdZVu5bA9p+0XEplB6lmX6YWWYxLPhqao s4mEef0/6qrEPHRhUx5rZ7NqC2fv9YSiqW2hFqgBaULbw8ec39Nv/ZYMNMeU8vz/ rnEKr3FpNYcIhOc4Kyo6plYzrt9uGo+ehTpxQCxWkoos6a44ZSdOJMQAMlGkNIIk MbPY6Q0aLXJULU2OT/amuPoEJCgimz6PjiJryV8xuSccSJwYzwfLdcfIxM6TwNwd qSGO8bd/kipxYHmUIbZTNKlwPdIISgxEfern9BXPJECplbZ9OgOQk44kA8oAxME= =Fhqg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Dec 12, 2016 1:06 AM, "ilsa" wrote:

I did not click on the link and just never would. I stood next to Aaron's

The Work touches my heart. I wear my Grace Host shirt proudly. Any person can kick dust in the road and hope it mixes with some s*%t of the shit kicker and get traction... and lookie ..Is this success? Where any attention, either good or bad, is worth

brother in a hackathon in honor of The Work. the bucket.

I am pulling for the next Aaron kind of guy with a great vision steps forward fearlessly to lead all us wanna bees forward in the foot steps of dear dear gentle Aaron and his kind gentle family and friends. smile, Ruby

I do love Aaron's brother, my dear Ruby. He is pretty sweet, so amazingly kind and adorable like Aaron and their family. And his messages are always fun! I think the whole family have a wonderful sense of humour. Aaron was fun too! ;) Some of Aaron's dearest friends are my friends and heroes too. Their intelligence, gentleness and kindness always inspire me. I could die for some of them right now because I know they are a greater good to this world, to our future. I dream of a better world, my dear. Tender hugs and kisses. And sweet smiles, of course. :) Ceci