Someone sent me a private note. I have deleted his name for this public reply.
Tim May wrote:
The "new physics" stuff is quite different. It is scorned in a way that plate tectonics was not, and for good reason. Folks should visit Bearden's site. http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/index.html
I did. Oh, dear.
Not sure what is supposed to be denoted by "Tesla physics", but Tesla's work with power transmission via HF is fascinating, even if there was apparently no practical or safe use for it.
No one disputes the outstanding work Tesla did on a.c. transmission. And anyone who has seen or used a Tesla coil knows how real it is. "Tesla physics" is all the cruft that has developed around some of his more obscure (and late) writings, usually mixed together with stuff Tesla could not have known about at the time of his death. To wit, the stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.). Tesla is a hero to these "new physics" nuts, even though nothing Tesla ever worked on or built contradicts in the slightest way the predictions of Maxwell's theories. They take Tesla's very real contributions and some of his weirder theories (though none of them so weird as the Hollow Earth/antigravity/time reversal theories of modern nutters) and say that this means "They laughed at Tesla, they laugh at me!" BTW, I was/am an early ("angel") investor in a company doing work on ultrawideband transmissions. Some of the works Bearden cites, like those of Barrett, are familiar to me and others with this company. Saying that there is a role for ultrawideband pulse technology, a la spread spectrum and beyond SS, is NOT the same as saying there are confirmed "problems" with electromagnetic theory. There may be, and there are a handful of folks doing "foundational" work in E&M, but, so far, there are no indications that their foundational work is changing any engineering calculations. Quite the contrary, in my view. Electromagnetic theory basically "works"--to many decimal places of accuracy. Circuits work as expected, antennas work as expected, and there are no "unexplained observations" (as usually exist before a new theory arrives). There may be some _semantic_ issues, e.g., does a square wave or impulse "really" have components that were sent out _before_ the square wave or impulse? (A Fourier decomposition of a square wave starting at time t = 0 has "sine wave components" spread out over time and adding up in such a way as to give the square wave, or the impulse, or any other signal. Some think this means deep and mysterious things are happening, something having to do with time travel and reversing the aging process, blah blah blah. Henning Harmuth may write fairly eloquently about the "dogma of the circle" and how the Fourier decomposition of a signal into (allegedly) a near-infinite series of sine waves is "not real," but for all intents and purposes it all works. And the "new physics" people like Bearden go way beyond what Harmuth and Barrett are talking about: they bring in "curved space-time" and gravitation and antigravity and the ultra-weird notion that aging can be reversed by "pumping the conjugate time-axis of the Minkowski manifold" (OK, I made this up...don't have time to lift one of Bearden's direct quotes...and this will help train me in the jargon if I ever become a "new physicist."). Nut cases like Bearden have the patter of physics down. Very few actual physicists waste their time dissecting and refuting Bearden for obvious reasons. I urge readers of this list not to waste time on this stuff. --Tim May, Citizen-unit of of the once free United States " The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. "--Thomas Jefferson, 1787
Tim May wrote:
Someone sent me a private note. I have deleted his name for this public reply.
I'm really gonna have set up some decent filtering. I'm subscribed to a couple of nodes, plus some nodes reply-to the list, others the sender. Replying to the list is more convenient for me, as I seldom send private messages out of a list discussion. I do tend to think about the message more than the addressing, and every so often I fire one off without looking. My bad. jbdigriz
On Sun, 14 Oct 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote:
I'm really gonna have set up some decent filtering. I'm subscribed to a couple of nodes, plus some nodes reply-to the list, others the sender. Replying to the list is more convenient for me, as I seldom send private messages out of a list discussion. I do tend to think about the message more than the addressing, and every so often I fire one off without looking.
It'll probably be easier for you to just unsuscrive ;-) -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------
measl@mfn.org wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote:
I'm really gonna have set up some decent filtering. I'm subscribed to a couple of nodes, plus some nodes reply-to the list, others the sender. Replying to the list is more convenient for me, as I seldom send private messages out of a list discussion. I do tend to think about the message more than the addressing, and every so often I fire one off without looking.
It'll probably be easier for you to just unsuscrive ;-)
Aaah, don't be a smartass :-)
Tim May wrote: "Tesla physics" is all the cruft that has developed around some of his more obscure (and late) writings, usually mixed together with stuff Tesla could not have known about at the time of his death. To wit, the stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.). Thought that's what you meant. Wasn't aware that he had developed any actual new physics. I do know he was desparate for funds at the end and might have fallen prey to some embellishment and license. That he was arguably ill-treated might factor into it, too. Too bad his papers were spirited away and classified so we can't judge for ourselves, though. Look what government paranoia has engendered in this case. and beyond SS, is NOT the same as saying there are conrmed "problems" with electromagnetic theory. There may be, and there are a handful of folks doing "foundational" work in E&M, but, so far, there are no indications that their foundational work is changing any engineering calculations. Quite the contrary, in my view. Electromagnetic theory basically "works"--to many decimal places of accuracy. Circuits work as expected, antennas work as expected, and there are no "unexplained observations" (as usually exist before a new theory arrives). There may be some _semantic_ issues, e.g., does a square wave or impulse "really" have components that were sent out _before_ the square wave or impulse? (A Fourier decomposition of a square wave starting at time t = 0 has "sine wave components" spread out over time and adding up in such a way as to give the square wave, or the impulse, or any other signal. Some think this means deep and mysterious things are happening, something having to do with time travel and reversing the aging process, blah blah blah. Henning Harmuth may write fairly eloquently about the "dogma of the circle" and how the Fourier decomposition of a signal into (allegedly) a near-infinite series of sine waves is "not real," but for all intents and purposes it all works. And the "new physics" people like Bearden go way beyond what Harmuth and Barrett are talking about: they bring in "curved space-time" and gravitation and antigravity and the ultra-weird notion that aging can be reversed by "pumping the conjugate time-axis of the Minkowski manifold" (OK, I made this up...don't have time to lift one of Bearden's direct quotes...and this will help train me in the jargon if I ever become a "new physicist."). Nut cases like Bearden have the patter of physics down. Very few actual physicists waste their time dissecting and refuting Bearden for obvious reasons. Thanks for the references, which aren't familiar to me. I'll check them out. I urge readers of this list not to waste time on this stuff. One of the best ways to learn physics is to find out why perpetual motion doesn't work. Once [:-)] . jbdigriz
On Sunday, October 14, 2001, at 12:38 PM, James B. DiGriz wrote:
..stuff elided...
Could folks please try to use appropriate quoting software to separate what they are writing from what they are responding to? --Tim May --Tim May "You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged." - -Michael Shirley
Tim May wrote:
On Sunday, October 14, 2001, at 12:38 PM, James B. DiGriz wrote:
..stuff elided...
Could folks please try to use appropriate quoting software to separate what they are writing from what they are responding to?
I'm not even gonna try to explain. Think it's time to go eat dinner. jbdigriz
"James B. DiGriz" wrote:
Thought that's what you meant. Wasn't aware that he had developed any actual new physics. I do know he was desparate for funds at the end and might have fallen prey to some embellishment and license. That he was arguably ill-treated might factor into it, too. Too bad his papers were spirited away and classified so we can't judge for ourselves, though. Look what government paranoia has engendered in this case.
I deeply doubt the stories about his papers having been "classified." More likely, as he died in obscurity, his unpublished work simply ended up in a trash bin. There is no reverence for, nor any desire to preserve the work of, some dead pauper who is not the media darling du jour. Marc de Piolenc
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
"Tesla physics" is all the cruft that has developed around some of his more obscure (and late) writings, usually mixed together with stuff Tesla could not have known about at the time of his death. To wit, the stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 10:40:40AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
stuff about zero point energy and perpetual motion machines. And, sometimes, mixed together with the usual nutcase stuff about the Hollow Earth theory (zeta reticulans colonizing the hollow earth, Greys, underground UFO bases, secret Nazi weapons, etc.).
Righto. It's a staple of the UFO fringe. See: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,43526,00.html
A briefing book the group handed out to reporters says mankind must learn the truth about UFOs and switch to free energy and beam cars before it's too late.
And then there was this, which I wrote 2.5 years ago. Some folks, including I believe Tim, said at the time that I was being too uncritical, and looking back, they was right. It's a little painful to read; at the very least I should have reversed the order of the article. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,1282,19446,00.html
Much of the audience, though, is undeterred. They gather around the stinking, wheezing mower and stare at it as if it were an alien artifact recently recovered from Area 51. They are the perpetually hopeful, the uncritical -- the groupies of the future energy movement.
-Declan
participants (5)
-
Declan McCullagh
-
F. Marc de Piolenc
-
James B. DiGriz
-
measl@mfn.org
-
Tim May