[ogsa-wg] [OGSA-BES-WG] HPC profile questionaire draft
Ian Foster
foster at mcs.anl.gov
Fri Nov 17 18:11:00 CST 2006
Marty:
My words "far from adequate" and "tiny" were not fair, I agree. My
comments were meant to be constructive, in the manner you expressed them
below.
Ian.
Marty Humphrey wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
>
>
> Your points are very good and absolutely valid. Absolutely. Great points.
>
>
>
> While you and I might disagree with such words as "far from adequate"
> and even "tiny" in your subsequent email, we agree that it's very
> important to scope this properly, for the points you articulated.
>
> And to clarify: I don't think it's necessarily those people most
> closely connected with the effort who might think or claim that the
> scope is broader than it should be in reality. (Is that sentence
> parsable?) I have found that the people on the WG calls and those
> people implementing the spec generally have the proper perspective on
> this work, in my opinion. Of course, the issue now regards MY
> perspective :^)
>
>
>
> Again, I think you make a great point that we have sure that vendors
> don't just implement this Base HPC Profile and claim they're done.
> We've always thought that a key to the overall HPC Profile will be the
> extensions -- making sure that EVERYONE understands this point is
> critical for this effort.
>
>
>
> -- Marty
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Ian Foster [mailto:foster at mcs.anl.gov]
> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 5:49 PM
> *To:* Marty Humphrey
> *Cc:* 'Subramaniam, Ravi'; ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org;
> ogsa-wg at gridforum.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>
>
>
> Marty:
>
> Please don't apologize: you should never let a comment from me go
> without response (-:
>
> I didn't mean to suggest that the HPC Profile should not be passed to
> the GGF editor.
>
> However, while we should certainly celebrate our success in creating
> the profile and getting people to implement it, I think it is
> critically important that we be explicit about how tiny a step we have
> taken. Otherwise, we risk backlash from the "public" (when they look
> at this spec we are making such a fuss over) and also, potentially, a
> loss of focus from the vendors who we need to work towards true
> interop. For some vendors, having a spec that they can say they are
> compliant with--and then extend in nonstandard ways to address
> security, staging, etc., etc.--will be more important than continuing
> the hard work of specification.We don't want to let that happen.
>
> Ian.
>
>
> Marty Humphrey wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
>
>
> I'm sorry, but I can't let that "far from adequate" go by without
> response. For the real business scenarios that we have been pursuing,
> I do not believe that the HPC Profile is "far from adequate". This has
> been reinforced by our experience talking with people at SC.
>
>
>
> Post-thanksgiving, our WG will refine the HPC Profile somewhat, but I
> don't believe that we will have a significant effort before pushing it
> to the GGF editor.
>
>
>
> As you know, its design is one of extensibility and composability. I
> believe that the HPC "Base Profile" will be sufficient for many real
> business use cases. I also believe that the planned extensions are
> important for many situations.
>
>
>
> - Marty
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org
> <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org>
> [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ian Foster
> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 3:26 PM
> *To:* Subramaniam, Ravi
> *Cc:* ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org>;
> ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org>;
> ogsa-wg at gridforum.org <mailto:ogsa-wg at gridforum.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>
>
>
> I want to understand what people think we need for real interop. The
> HPC Profile as currently defined seems far from adequate for that
> purpose. We've mention staging and security as two issues. There are
> presumably others.
>
> Ian.
>
>
> Subramaniam, Ravi wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
>
>
> One question could be "Is the profile as it stands complete from your
> perspective? At least for the focus/business areas or types of
> customers that you plan to implement for?"
>
>
>
> The motivation is that depending on the verticals (e.g. financial,
> pharma) there may be some issue that may need to be resolved to be
> successful. In this way at least some target constituencies that can
> best benefit from what is currently there can be determined. We can
> also begin more targeted campaign at the OGF level towards
> consumers/customers/end-users and providers in that segments. Building
> traction in one of more specific segments may help build momentum for
> others.
>
>
>
> Ravi
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org <mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org>
> [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf Of *Maguire_Tom at emc.com
> <mailto:Maguire_Tom at emc.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 11:12 AM
> *To:* grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu <mailto:grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu>;
> ogsa-wg at gridforum.org <mailto:ogsa-wg at gridforum.org>;
> ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org>;
> ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>
>
>
> Is there enough specificity in the profile for your engineers to
> successfully implement? If not what do you need?
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tom Maguire
> +1(845) 729-4806
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org <mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org>
> [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Grimshaw
> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 10:21 AM
> *To:* 'Ogsa-Wg'; ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org>;
> ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org>
> *Subject:* [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>
>
>
> All,
>
> At the OGSA F2F I was tasked with coming up with a series of questions
> about the HPC profile experiences to go into a zoomerang, so that an
> experiences paper could be generated -- either for HPC profile, JSDL,
> and/or BES.
>
>
>
> Here is a start. Note -- comment on/add questions. Do NOT answer
> them!!! That will come later.
>
>
>
> 1) Will the HPC-Profile be useful to your organization/company?
> Explain.
>
> 2) Will you engineer your products to be hpc-profile compliant?
>
> 3) In your opinion, are there any unresolved ambiguities? Explain?
>
> 4) Thoughts on the next profile? Anything in particular from BES or
> JSDL (or other specification) that you would like to include.
>
> 5) Approximately how many person-days did it take you to implement
> the HPC-profile?
>
> 6) What would you change in the HPC-profile? Why?
>
>
>
> Remember this is a STRAWMAN ONLY for discussion! Please add, suggest
> removal, or modify the above.
>
>
>
> A
>
>
>
> Andrew Grimshaw
>
> Professor of Computer Science
>
> University of Virginia
>
> 434-982-2204
>
> grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu <mailto:grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ogsa-wg mailing list
> ogsa-wg at ogf.org <mailto:ogsa-wg at ogf.org>
> http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-wg
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute
> Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago
> Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
> Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
> Tel: +1 630 252 4619. Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu <http://www.ci.uchicago.edu>.
> Globus Alliance: www.globus.org <http://www.globus.org>.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute
> Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago
> Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
> Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
> Tel: +1 630 252 4619. Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu <http://www.ci.uchicago.edu>.
> Globus Alliance: www.globus.org <http://www.globus.org>.
--
Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute
Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago
Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
Tel: +1 630 252 4619. Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu.
Globus Alliance: www.globus.org.
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