[ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft

Hiro Kishimoto hiro.kishimoto at jp.fujitsu.com
Sun Nov 19 08:16:51 CST 2006 

Hi all,

Based on the suggested questions and discussions, I've created survey
template for HPC profile SC06 interop.

Please have a look and give your feedback by email.
This is still STRAWMAN. DO NOT ANSWER.

http://www.zoomerang.com/recipient/survey.zgi?p=WEB225VTDXBJCL

Thanks,
----
Hiro Kishimoto

Ian Foster wrote:
> Marty:
> 
> My words "far from adequate" and "tiny" were not fair, I agree. My 
> comments were meant to be constructive, in the manner you expressed them 
> below.
> 
> Ian.
> 
> Marty Humphrey wrote:
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Your points are very good and absolutely valid. Absolutely. Great points.
>>
>>  
>>
>> While you and I might disagree with such words as "far from adequate" 
>> and even "tiny" in your subsequent email, we agree that it's very 
>> important to scope this properly, for the points you articulated.
>>
>> And to clarify: I don't think it's necessarily those people most 
>> closely connected with the effort who might think or claim that the 
>> scope is broader than it should be in reality. (Is that sentence 
>> parsable?) I have found that the people on the WG calls and those 
>> people implementing the spec generally have the proper perspective on 
>> this work, in my opinion. Of course, the issue now regards MY 
>> perspective :^)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Again, I think you make a great point that we have sure that vendors 
>> don't just implement this Base HPC Profile and claim they're done. 
>> We've always thought that a key to the overall HPC Profile will be the 
>> extensions -- making sure that EVERYONE understands this point is 
>> critical for this effort.
>>
>>  
>>
>> -- Marty
>>
>>  
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Ian Foster [mailto:foster at mcs.anl.gov]
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 5:49 PM
>> *To:* Marty Humphrey
>> *Cc:* 'Subramaniam, Ravi'; ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org; 
>> ogsa-wg at gridforum.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>>
>>  
>>
>> Marty:
>>
>> Please don't apologize: you should never let a comment from me go 
>> without response (-:
>>
>> I didn't mean to suggest that the HPC Profile should not be passed to 
>> the GGF editor.
>>
>> However, while we should certainly celebrate our success in creating 
>> the profile and getting people to implement it, I think it is 
>> critically important that we be explicit about how tiny a step we have 
>> taken. Otherwise, we risk backlash from the "public" (when they look 
>> at this spec we are making such a fuss over) and also, potentially, a 
>> loss of focus from the vendors who we need to work towards true 
>> interop. For some vendors, having a spec that they can say they are 
>> compliant with--and then extend in nonstandard ways to address 
>> security, staging, etc., etc.--will be more important than continuing 
>> the hard work of specification.We don't want to let that happen.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>>
>> Marty Humphrey wrote:
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>>  
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I can't let that "far from adequate" go by without 
>> response. For the real business scenarios that we have been pursuing, 
>> I do not believe that the HPC Profile is "far from adequate". This has 
>> been reinforced by our experience talking with people at SC.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Post-thanksgiving, our WG will refine the HPC Profile somewhat, but I 
>> don't believe that we will have a significant effort before pushing it 
>> to the GGF editor.
>>
>>  
>>
>> As you know, its design is one of extensibility and composability. I 
>> believe that the HPC "Base Profile" will be sufficient for many real 
>> business use cases. I also believe that the planned extensions are 
>> important for many situations.
>>
>>  
>>
>> - Marty
>>
>>  
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org 
>> <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org> 
>> [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ian Foster
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 3:26 PM
>> *To:* Subramaniam, Ravi
>> *Cc:* ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org>; 
>> ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org>; 
>> ogsa-wg at gridforum.org <mailto:ogsa-wg at gridforum.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>>
>>  
>>
>> I want to understand what people think we need for real interop. The 
>> HPC Profile as currently defined seems far from adequate for that 
>> purpose. We've mention staging and security as two issues. There are 
>> presumably others.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>>
>> Subramaniam, Ravi wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>>  
>>
>> One question could be "Is the profile as it stands complete from your 
>> perspective? At least for the focus/business areas or types of 
>> customers that you plan to implement for?"
>>
>>  
>>
>> The motivation is that depending on the verticals (e.g. financial, 
>> pharma) there may be some issue that may need to be resolved to be 
>> successful. In this way at least some target constituencies that can 
>> best benefit from what is currently there can be determined. We can 
>> also begin more targeted campaign at the OGF level towards 
>> consumers/customers/end-users and providers in that segments. Building 
>> traction in one of more specific segments may help build momentum for 
>> others.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Ravi
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org <mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org> 
>> [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf Of *Maguire_Tom at emc.com 
>> <mailto:Maguire_Tom at emc.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 11:12 AM
>> *To:* grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu <mailto:grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu>; 
>> ogsa-wg at gridforum.org <mailto:ogsa-wg at gridforum.org>; 
>> ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org>; 
>> ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>>
>>  
>>
>> Is there enough specificity in the profile for your engineers to 
>> successfully implement?  If not what do you need?
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tom Maguire
>> +1(845) 729-4806
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org <mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org> 
>> [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Grimshaw
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2006 10:21 AM
>> *To:* 'Ogsa-Wg'; ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org>; 
>> ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org <mailto:ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org>
>> *Subject:* [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft
>>
>>  
>>
>> All,
>>
>> At the OGSA F2F I was tasked with coming up with a series of questions 
>> about the HPC profile experiences to go into a zoomerang, so that an 
>> experiences paper could be generated -- either for HPC profile, JSDL, 
>> and/or BES.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Here is a start. Note -- comment on/add questions. Do NOT answer 
>> them!!! That will come later.
>>
>>  
>>
>> 1)    Will the HPC-Profile be useful to your organization/company? 
>> Explain.
>>
>> 2)    Will you engineer your products to be hpc-profile compliant?
>>
>> 3)    In your opinion, are there any unresolved ambiguities? Explain?
>>
>> 4)    Thoughts on the next profile? Anything in particular from BES or 
>> JSDL (or other specification) that you would like to include.
>>
>> 5)    Approximately how many person-days did it take you to implement 
>> the HPC-profile?
>>
>> 6)    What would you change in the HPC-profile? Why?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Remember this is a STRAWMAN ONLY for discussion! Please add, suggest 
>> removal, or modify the above.
>>
>>  
>>
>> A
>>
>>  
>>
>> Andrew Grimshaw
>>
>> Professor of Computer Science
>>
>> University of Virginia
>>
>> 434-982-2204
>>
>> grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu <mailto:grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu>
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> -- 
>>   ogsa-wg mailing list
>>   ogsa-wg at ogf.org <mailto:ogsa-wg at ogf.org>
>>   http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-wg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>  
>>    Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute
>> Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago
>> Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
>> Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
>> Tel: +1 630 252 4619.  Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu 
>> <http://www.ci.uchicago.edu>.
>>       Globus Alliance: www.globus.org <http://www.globus.org>.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>  
>>    Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute
>> Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago
>> Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
>> Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
>> Tel: +1 630 252 4619.  Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu 
>> <http://www.ci.uchicago.edu>.
>>       Globus Alliance: www.globus.org <http://www.globus.org>.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> --
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>   ogsa-hpcp-wg at ogf.org
>   http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-hpcp-wg

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