[ogsa-wg] [OGSA-BES-WG] HPC profile questionaire draft

Fri Nov 17 17:45:13 CST 2006

Ian,

Your points are very good and absolutely valid. Absolutely. Great points. 

While you and I might disagree with such words as "far from adequate" and
even "tiny" in your subsequent email, we agree that it's very important to
scope this properly, for the points you articulated.

And to clarify: I don't think it's necessarily those people most closely
connected with the effort who might think or claim that the scope is broader
than it should be in reality. (Is that sentence parsable?) I have found that
the people on the WG calls and those people implementing the spec generally
have the proper perspective on this work, in my opinion. Of course, the
issue now regards MY perspective :^)

Again, I think you make a great point that we have sure that vendors don't
just implement this Base HPC Profile and claim they're done. We've always
thought that a key to the overall HPC Profile will be the extensions -
making sure that EVERYONE understands this point is critical for this
effort.

-- Marty

  _____  

From: Ian Foster [mailto:foster at mcs.anl.gov] 
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 5:49 PM
To: Marty Humphrey
Cc: 'Subramaniam, Ravi'; ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org;
ogsa-wg at gridforum.org
Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft

Marty:

Please don't apologize: you should never let a comment from me go without
response (-:

I didn't mean to suggest that the HPC Profile should not be passed to the
GGF editor.

However, while we should certainly celebrate our success in creating the
profile and getting people to implement it, I think it is critically
important that we be explicit about how tiny a step we have taken.
Otherwise, we risk backlash from the "public" (when they look at this spec
we are making such a fuss over) and also, potentially, a loss of focus from
the vendors who we need to work towards true interop. For some vendors,
having a spec that they can say they are compliant with--and then extend in
nonstandard ways to address security, staging, etc., etc.--will be more
important than continuing the hard work of specification.We don't want to
let that happen.

Ian.

Marty Humphrey wrote: 

Ian,

I'm sorry, but I can't let that "far from adequate" go by without response.
For the real business scenarios that we have been pursuing, I do not believe
that the HPC Profile is "far from adequate". This has been reinforced by our
experience talking with people at SC. 

Post-thanksgiving, our WG will refine the HPC Profile somewhat, but I don't
believe that we will have a significant effort before pushing it to the GGF
editor. 

As you know, its design is one of extensibility and composability. I believe
that the HPC "Base Profile" will be sufficient for many real business use
cases. I also believe that the planned extensions are important for many
situations.

- Marty

  _____  

From: ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On
Behalf Of Ian Foster
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 3:26 PM
To: Subramaniam, Ravi
Cc: ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org; ogsa-wg at gridforum.org
Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft

I want to understand what people think we need for real interop. The HPC
Profile as currently defined seems far from adequate for that purpose. We've
mention staging and security as two issues. There are presumably others.

Ian.

Subramaniam, Ravi wrote: 

Hi Andrew,

One question could be "Is the profile as it stands complete from your
perspective? At least for the focus/business areas or types of customers
that you plan to implement for?"

The motivation is that depending on the verticals (e.g. financial, pharma)
there may be some issue that may need to be resolved to be successful. In
this way at least some target constituencies that can best benefit from what
is currently there can be determined. We can also begin more targeted
campaign at the OGF level towards consumers/customers/end-users and
providers in that segments. Building traction in one of more specific
segments may help build momentum for others.

Ravi

  _____  

From: ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of
Maguire_Tom at emc.com
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:12 AM
To: grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu; ogsa-wg at gridforum.org; ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org;
ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org
Subject: Re: [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft

Is there enough specificity in the profile for your engineers to
successfully implement?  If not what do you need?

Tom 

_______________________________________________ 
Tom Maguire 
+1(845) 729-4806 

  _____  

From: ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of
Andrew Grimshaw
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:21 AM
To: 'Ogsa-Wg'; ogsa-hpcp-wg at ggf.org; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org
Subject: [ogsa-wg] HPC profile questionaire draft

All,

At the OGSA F2F I was tasked with coming up with a series of questions about
the HPC profile experiences to go into a zoomerang, so that an experiences
paper could be generated - either for HPC profile, JSDL, and/or BES. 

Here is a start. Note - comment on/add questions. Do NOT answer them!!! That
will come later.

1)    Will the HPC-Profile be useful to your organization/company? Explain.

2)    Will you engineer your products to be hpc-profile compliant?

3)    In your opinion, are there any unresolved ambiguities? Explain?

4)    Thoughts on the next profile? Anything in particular from BES or JSDL
(or other specification) that you would like to include.

5)    Approximately how many person-days did it take you to implement the
HPC-profile?

6)    What would you change in the HPC-profile? Why?

Remember this is a STRAWMAN ONLY for discussion! Please add, suggest
removal, or modify the above.

A

Andrew Grimshaw

Professor of Computer Science

University of Virginia

434-982-2204

grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu

  _____  

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-- 

   Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute
Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago
Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
Tel: +1 630 252 4619.  Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu.
      Globus Alliance: www.globus.org.

-- 

   Ian Foster, Director, Computation Institute
Argonne National Laboratory & University of Chicago
Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
Tel: +1 630 252 4619.  Web: www.ci.uchicago.edu.
      Globus Alliance: www.globus.org.
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