[ogsa-naming-wg] FW: BOUNCE ogsa-naming-wg at ggf.org: Non-member submission from ["Mark Morgan" <mmm2a at virginia.edu>]
Andrew Grimshaw
grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu
Tue Mar 28 07:55:40 CST 2006
Mark's email bounced - don't know why.
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Subject: BOUNCE ogsa-naming-wg at ggf.org: Non-member submission from ["Mark
Morgan" <mmm2a at virginia.edu>]
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From: "Mark Morgan" <mmm2a at virginia.edu>
To: "'David Snelling'" <David.Snelling at uk.fujitsu.com>,
"'Christopher Jordan'" <ctjordan at sdsc.edu>
Cc: "'Osamu Tatebe'" <o.tatebe at aist.go.jp>,
"'Arun Jagatheesan'" <arun at sdsc.edu>,
"'Manuel Pereira'" <mpereira at almaden.ibm.com>,
"'Andrew Grimshaw'" <grimshaw at cs.virginia.edu>,
"'Dave Berry'" <daveb at nesc.ac.uk>,
"'Allen Luniewski'" <luniew at almaden.ibm.com>,
"'Hiro Kishimoto'" <hiro.kishimoto at jp.fujitsu.com>,
"'Ian Foster'" <foster at mcs.anl.gov>,
"'Gregory Newby'" <newby at arsc.edu>, <gfs-wg at ggf.org>,
<ogsa-naming-wg at ggf.org>
Subject: RE: [ogsa-naming-wg] GGF/OGSA standards for hierarchical namespaces
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:52:07 -0500
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One comment about WSDirectory. As per our discussion at the last face to
face (or was it the one before that), we have added trackers to the
WS-Naming group's Gridforge page about a number of WS-Directory issues
(including extensibility and attributes). These issues I believe have been
addressed both in tracker form, and in the document on grid forge for the
WS-Directory recommendation. WS-Directory now maps string (human readable)
names to extensible XML document (including at a minimum, an EPR), thus I
believe addressing the attribute/extensibility concern. For more info,
please refer to
https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-naming-wg/document/draft-wsdir-rec
-doc-v3/en/1 and to
https://forge.gridforum.org/projects/ogsa-naming-wg/document/draft-wsdir-ren
dering-doc-v3/en/1.
-Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Snelling [mailto:David.Snelling at uk.fujitsu.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:05 AM
> To: Christopher Jordan
> Cc: Osamu Tatebe; Arun Jagatheesan; Manuel Pereira; Andrew
> Grimshaw; Mark Morgan; Dave Berry; Allen Luniewski; Hiro
> Kishimoto; Ian Foster; Gregory Newby; gfs-wg at ggf.org;
> ogsa-naming-wg at ggf.org
> Subject: Re: [ogsa-naming-wg] GGF/OGSA standards for
> hierarchical namespaces
>
> Folks,
>
> This mail may bounce off some of these lists, but I hope
> everybody sees it if they are interested.
>
> It sounds like a re-factoring of RNS along the lines
> discussed is the best way forward. Is the a group of people
> willing to do a VERY ROUGH straw man decomposition of the
> current spec?
>
>
>
> On 28 Mar 2006, at 2:28, Christopher Jordan wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Forgive the wide distribution on this e-mail, but this
> issue seems to
> > be to be both extraordinarily important to the future of GGF/OGSA
> > standards efforts and also in a state of either limbo or paralysis.
> > The topic I'm addressing here, both in my capacity as the
> secretary of
> > GFS-WG and as a generally interested participant on a few different
> > GGF working groups, is the question of adopting a single, possibly
> > minimal, standard for creating hierarchically organized
> collections of
> > pointers (WS-Names? GSR/GSHs, to date myself?) to
> "resources", where
> > the term "resource" could denote a service providing access to a
> > collection of files, computational resources, or database records
> > (that's a non-exclusive list), and where some items in the
> hierarchy
> > could actually represent directory-like structures, i.e. containers
> > for other collections of resources.
> >
> > The way I got involved in this discussion through the Grid File
> > Systems-WG, which at the time was bringing the RNS specification
> > forward for final approval as a GFD. Subsequently, there have been
> > numerous discussions outside of the GFS-WG context about the
> > suitability of the RNS standard for more general
> applications, as well
> > as the (perceived) complexity of the standard as a barrier to entry.
> > There have also been alternative directory construction standards
> > proposed by members of the OGSA-Naming-WG.
> >
> > The following are the activities/proposals I know of:
> >
> > RNS: I know the GGF editors have returned the final(?) RNS draft to
> > GFS-WG, with the suggestion that it is too specific to filesystem
> > needs, and the suggestion that it either be limited in scope to GFS
> > applications only (a non-optimal solution for obvious
> reasons) or that
> > the authors work with the OGSA-Naming people to help develop a
> > universal standard for hierarchical resource namespaces. If
> we are to
> > move forward with RNS, one of these options will clearly be a
> > necessity, given the points Greg Newby made in his
> responses on behalf
> > of the GFSG.
> >
> > WS-Directory: This is the hierarchical namespace standard
> developed at
> > UVa in response to their difficulty in implementing the
> complexities
> > and ambiguities in RNS. I like the simplicity of
> WS-Directory, however
> > it seems to be missing significant requirements for general
> use such
> > as attributes, both attributed which should be required such as
> > time-to-live, and the ability to add extensibility
> attributes such as
> > resource type, QoS, etc. This ability to add arbitrary
> attributes is
> > present in RNS but it still lacks some obviously
> fundamental required
> > attributes.
> >
> > Finally, Dave Berry sent an e-mail immediately after GGF16
> in which he
> > mentioned the suggestion that we separate this
> functionality into two
> > logical functions, and therefore standards - a Directory
> Interface and
> > an Iterator interface, in which Directory interfaces were
> essentially
> > just pointers to Iterators, which would be standardized. However,
> > there would be no restriction that a Directory point to a
> particular
> > type of iterator interface. One point I wasn't clear on from the
> > e-mail was whether an entry in an interator could be another
> > directory, although I suspect it can.
> >
> > This short list is what I've got within easy reach. As I said
> > previously, I believe this is an important issue to resolve
> quickly,
> > and I'm sending this note in the hopes of initiating the
> conversation
> > among as many of the relevant parties as I can. Please feel free to
> > forward at will, respond with agreement, anger, or even unconcealed
> > rage.
> >
> > Possible ways forward would be for us to have a conference call
> > (GFS-WG meets rarely, and we could quite easily give up our
> call for a
> > more focused discussion of these issues), an extended e-mail
> > discussion, or a meeting at the next GGF (assuming we get a chance).
> >
> > Let me know how you feel about the options presented above, or feel
> > free to propose new ones if you like. The important thing
> is that we
> > begin to gain momentum, and then keep it going forward.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > N.B. For anyone who may have missed any of the discussions
> reference
> > above, please let me know and I'll be happy to forward them to you
> > from my archives.
> >
> > - ----------------------------------------------------
> > Chris Jordan
> > HPC Systems Engineer
> > High End Computing Systems Group
> > San Diego Supercomputer Center
> > ctjordan at sdsc.edu
> > 858.534.8347
> >
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> >
> >
> --
>
> Take care:
>
> Dr. David Snelling < David . Snelling . UK . Fujitsu . com >
> Fujitsu Laboratories of Europe
> Hayes Park Central
> Hayes End Road
> Hayes, Middlesex UB4 8FE
>
> +44-208-606-4649 (Office)
> +44-208-606-4539 (Fax)
> +44-7768-807526 (Mobile)
>
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