Aus: Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly's position regarding human tracking app -- Re: Australia will launch tracing app as voluntary 'and see how it goes', deputy medical officer says

[Steven Schear]

So tell me again how this might work for someone, like myself, that has a
phone with a removable battery and keeps his phone off / unpowered mostly,
except at home or innocuous locations.

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 4:39 PM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> On 16 April 2020, Australia's Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul
> Kelly, during one of his addresses to Australia regarding COVID-19,
> answered a few questions, including:
>
>   Australian Government Department of Health was live.
>   16 April at 22:08
>   #LIVE: Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul Kelly, with an
> update on coronavirus
>   https://en-gb.facebook.com/healthgovau/videos/633760540804638/
>
>   ... [initial discussion re the app, and how it is intended to initially
> operate, beginning at 04:15, not transcribed]
>
>   Question [08:49]: Would you consider using the capability of the telcos,
> um, to further contact tracing if, if it gets to a point that that's the
> best way to boost the, boost the contact tracing system?
>
>   Kelly    [09:00]: Well we're, we're considering this app for now and
> we'll, we'll see how that goes.
>
>   Question [09:04]: Professor the prime minister [Scott Morrison] didn't
> [?] rule out making the app compulsory if less than 40% of the country
> signed up, today; is the health advice to make the tracing app compulsory
> in some way if not [enough] Australians sign up, are you considering that
> at all?
>
>   Kelly    [09:15]: I'd .. I've always been a believer in .. in the
> Australian, people making the right decision, and so I think a voluntary
> approach at first is definitely the way to go.
>   Ah, and as I said, this is an add-on to what we already have in terms of
> contact tracing and, and case finding, and so, ah, I think we, we, we need
> to make the case for, for the app, we need to .. we've got work to do in
> the, in the coming week to, make sure that it is .. as good and as safe
> and, covers off privacy concerns and so forth these are very important
> issues to consider. Ah, and then we'll, the app will, will be released, and
> ah, and then we'll see how it goes, in terms of take up.
>
>   Question [09:50]: So a voluntary, a voluntary um thing at first, you
> said, does that mean you are considering to make it compulsory if, that
> doesn't work?
>
>   Kelly    [09:57]: Well I think we'd, we'd start with voluntary, and then
> we see how it goes.
>
>   Question [10:00]: But that said professor, you are saying aren't you
> that the take up rate of the app, is going to be tied to the timeline when
> we can safely come out of our lockdown?
>
>   Kelly    [10:12]: I think we've .. we're .. that was the Prime Minister
> who said that yesterday and so, um, what we, what we need to consider is,
> there is a range of things that have got us to this flattened curve.
>   I think the first thing was the closure of the borders, um
>   the second thing, ah, was, was, really, ramping up our case finding and
> con.. contact tracing, which has happened already .. ah, not with the app
> but with the normal way that we do these things, ah and
>   the third measure, ah was, all of the social distancing things which
> have, you know, shut down many of our, our beloved components of our way of
> life in Australia here,
>   and so, when we've looked at the modelling of all of those things, each
> of them have their contribution, ah, so, if we can strengthen one, or two
> of those, ah, then that will obviously give the .. give us an opportunity,
> to consider um, pulling back on some of the others and so that's the
> relationship between, the contact tracing, including the app, ah and the
> social distancing measures.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:38:29PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > >From the "oh, so the government tells us it won't abuse the geolocation
> and app surveillance data, so it just MUST be ok then, right? Right?"
> >
> > Ahh .. no.  Nope.  Definitely, that's actually a "no, there can be no
> such guarantee in the modern age", except of course, that the data were not
> collected in the first place, and that, of course, would defeat the purpose
> of this app.
> >
> > So folks, do not believe a well meaning politician who is fundamentally
> ignorant, or misinformed, or malignant, or some combination of all three.
> >
> > Witness the double speak of "there's no tracking involved with the app"
> and yet at the same time "the app would use data from people's phones to
> allow health authorities to trace people who had been in close contact with
> confirmed COVID-19 cases".
> >
> > Some of The Ministry's finest work, that right there :)
> >
> >
> >   Coronavirus app will not be forced upon Australians, Scott Morrison
> says
> >
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-18/prime-minister-rules-out-making-coronavirus-app-mandatory/12161126
> >
> >     Video: Stuart Robert says there's no tracking involved with the app
> (ABC News)
> >
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-18/government-stuart-robert-app-covid-corona-australia/12161480
> >
> >     Prime Minister Scott Morrison has ruled out forcing Australians to
> download a coronavirus tracing app, one day after the Deputy Chief Medical
> Officer left the door open to making it mandatory.
> >
> >     The Government is developing an app to bolster its ability to trace
> the contacts of infected Australians, but has warned it will not be
> effective unless at least 40 per cent of Australians download it.
> >
> >     The app would use data from people's phones to allow health
> authorities to trace people who had been in close contact with confirmed
> COVID-19 cases.
> >
> >     Yesterday, Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly said the
> Government would "start with voluntary" downloads of the app, before
> determining whether more action was needed.
> >
> >     "I've always been a believer in the Australian people making the
> right decision," he said.
> >
> >     "As I've said, this is an add-on to what we have in terms of contact
> tracing and case finding, so I think we need to make the case for an app.
> >
> >     "I think we start with voluntary, and see how that goes."
> >
> >     But this morning Mr Morrison tweeted that the app would not be made
> mandatory.
> >
> >     ...
> >
> >
> >
> > What today's CEO or prime minister or other politician promises,
> tomorrow he, she, or someone else who replaces him, will break that promise
> - it is only a matter of time and "appropriately dramatic" circumstances,
> as most of us well know.
> >
> > Maintain your privacy folks, if you value your rights at all...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 05:11:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > > This is important, folks - the below outlines the front line of human
> tracking or "the mark of the beast", as well as some antidotes to that.
> > >
> > > In this case, "The Ministry of Truth" attempts to achieve sufficient
> tacit consent for ubiquitous monitoring via "smart"phones.
> > >
> > > This is a highly slippery slope, and potentially catastrophic for our
> individual and collective freedoms, so let's get a handle on this one...
> > >
> > > Be warned: :: ----- crunch time is close - do everything you can to
> educate people, because if insufficient people are educated on this issue,
> the tracking that is coming ("mark of the beast") will be extraordinarily
> difficult to undo.
> > >
> > >
> > >   Coronavirus Australia live news: Government urges Australians to use
> tracing app despite privacy fears
> > >    By Dan Colasimone
> > >    Updated April 17, 2020 15:43:40
> > >
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-17/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-covid19-latest-news/12155268
> > >
> > >     Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly has not ruled out making a
> coronavirus tracing app compulsory if not enough people install it
> voluntarily.
> > >
> > >     "We start with voluntary and then we see how it goes," Professor
> Kelly told an afternoon press conference.
> > >
> > >     http://livenews.abc.net.au/Event/Coronavirus_Australia_live_news :
> > >     Some more details on the government's coronavirus-tracking app
> > >
> > >     The app uses Bluetooth technology to track coronavirus victims and
> the people they come in contact with.
> > >
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-14/coronavirus-app-government-wants-australians-to-download/12148210
> > >         .. The Federal Government believes restrictions on the
> community could be eased in the months ahead if there's more testing,
> greater surveillance of those infected by the coronavirus and much faster
> tracing of those they've had contact with.
> > >
> > >     The government’s given us some more detail, confirming data
> collected from the app would be uploaded to a server in the event someone
> tests positive to COVID-19.
> > >
> > >     This is significant, because some experts argue if the data is
> stored on a server it would attract privacy threats from hackers, and would
> also act as a disincentive for people to sign-up to the app.
> > >
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-15/challenge-to-convince-australians-to-use-coronavirus-tracing-app/12151130
> > >
> > >     The government believes it needs at least 40 per cent of
> Australians to opt-in in order for the app to be effective.
> > >
> > >     The minister responsible, Stuart Robert, has told Channel 7 the
> information gathered will be transferred to a database, if the person who
> tests positive to COVID-19 agrees.
> > >
> > >     "If you tested positive, the authorities would ask you to consent
> and that will be uploaded to a secure server," he said.
> > >
> > >     "That's it, no one is tracking you, there is no surveillance."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In the above article, these words:
> > >
> > > >    The government believes it needs at least 40 per cent of
> Australians to opt-in in order for the app to be effective.
> > >
> > >
> > > -really- mean "we need about 40% of Australians to opt in to voluntary
> fascist tracking, in order to establish "legal persuasion" (sufficient
> numbers of people, required to compel the courts to make orders against the
> interests of the remainder of the people) and also political influence
> ("40% of people agree with this already, we HAVE to enforce this upon
> everyone, to SAVE LIVES - so please, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!").
> > >
> > > This is the heart of why the above propaganda is so insidious - it is
> an attempt to covertly introduce and impose a fascist human tracking
> regime, "by the consent of the governed" - and to do this, all they need is
> about 40% of the entire population to opt in.
> > >
> > > Very fine Ministry propaganda, and opt-in fascism at its finest...
> Whoever wrote up the above ABC article gets a Fascism 'Badge Of Covert
> Fascism' badge award for "covert fascism".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------
> > > Antidotes, when in times of viral or similar medical pandemic crisis:
> > >
> > >   - We each have the fundamental human right to isolate or quarantine
> ourselves and our family, in order to protect ourselves and others.
> > >
> > >   - We do have a duty of care to one another, and we have the right to
> satisfy this duty of care by isolating, if we contract a virus, in order to
> not spread the disease to other humans.
> > >
> > >   - We have the fundamental human right to make informed decisions in
> regards to our health, excepting that if we have a known contageous
> condition, that we satisfy our duty of care to other humans in our
> community, for example by quarantining or isolating ourselves.
> > >
> > >   - If we become infected, or if we are at risk of becoming infeced,
> we have the right to make our own informed decisions about each and every
> medical procedure (such as vaccination, intravenous vitamin C, etc) that we
> choose to receive, or choose to not receive.
> > >
> > >   - Parents have the fundamental right to make informed decisions in
> relation to their children, which right overrides (i.e. which is superior
> to) the state's authority to impose any medical treatment, so long as the
> parent satisfies their duty of care to other people within our community.
> > >
> > >  - Fundamentally, we each have the right to educate ourselves, to read
> and otherwise to learn about the pros and cons of any and every medical
> treatment which is suggested, recommended or otherwise "ordered" by the
> state, and we have the right to choose to receive, and the right to choose
> to not receive, such medical treatment.
> > >
>
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