Aus: Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly's position regarding human tracking app -- Re: Australia will launch tracing app as voluntary 'and see how it goes', deputy medical officer says

Sun Apr 26 06:37:12 PDT 2020

On 16 April 2020, Australia's Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul Kelly, during one of his addresses to Australia regarding COVID-19, answered a few questions, including:

  Australian Government Department of Health was live.
  16 April at 22:08
  #LIVE: Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul Kelly, with an update on coronavirus
  https://en-gb.facebook.com/healthgovau/videos/633760540804638/

  ... [initial discussion re the app, and how it is intended to initially operate, beginning at 04:15, not transcribed]

  Question [08:49]: Would you consider using the capability of the telcos, um, to further contact tracing if, if it gets to a point that that's the best way to boost the, boost the contact tracing system?

  Kelly    [09:00]: Well we're, we're considering this app for now and we'll, we'll see how that goes.

  Question [09:04]: Professor the prime minister [Scott Morrison] didn't [?] rule out making the app compulsory if less than 40% of the country signed up, today; is the health advice to make the tracing app compulsory in some way if not [enough] Australians sign up, are you considering that at all?

  Kelly    [09:15]: I'd .. I've always been a believer in .. in the Australian, people making the right decision, and so I think a voluntary approach at first is definitely the way to go.
  Ah, and as I said, this is an add-on to what we already have in terms of contact tracing and, and case finding, and so, ah, I think we, we, we need to make the case for, for the app, we need to .. we've got work to do in the, in the coming week to, make sure that it is .. as good and as safe and, covers off privacy concerns and so forth these are very important issues to consider. Ah, and then we'll, the app will, will be released, and ah, and then we'll see how it goes, in terms of take up.

  Question [09:50]: So a voluntary, a voluntary um thing at first, you said, does that mean you are considering to make it compulsory if, that doesn't work?

  Kelly    [09:57]: Well I think we'd, we'd start with voluntary, and then we see how it goes.

  Question [10:00]: But that said professor, you are saying aren't you that the take up rate of the app, is going to be tied to the timeline when we can safely come out of our lockdown?

  Kelly    [10:12]: I think we've .. we're .. that was the Prime Minister who said that yesterday and so, um, what we, what we need to consider is, there is a range of things that have got us to this flattened curve.
  I think the first thing was the closure of the borders, um
  the second thing, ah, was, was, really, ramping up our case finding and con.. contact tracing, which has happened already .. ah, not with the app but with the normal way that we do these things, ah and
  the third measure, ah was, all of the social distancing things which have, you know, shut down many of our, our beloved components of our way of life in Australia here,
  and so, when we've looked at the modelling of all of those things, each of them have their contribution, ah, so, if we can strengthen one, or two of those, ah, then that will obviously give the .. give us an opportunity, to consider um, pulling back on some of the others and so that's the relationship between, the contact tracing, including the app, ah and the social distancing measures.

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 06:38:29PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >From the "oh, so the government tells us it won't abuse the geolocation and app surveillance data, so it just MUST be ok then, right? Right?"
> 
> Ahh .. no.  Nope.  Definitely, that's actually a "no, there can be no such guarantee in the modern age", except of course, that the data were not collected in the first place, and that, of course, would defeat the purpose of this app.
> 
> So folks, do not believe a well meaning politician who is fundamentally ignorant, or misinformed, or malignant, or some combination of all three.
> 
> Witness the double speak of "there's no tracking involved with the app" and yet at the same time "the app would use data from people's phones to allow health authorities to trace people who had been in close contact with confirmed COVID-19 cases".
> 
> Some of The Ministry's finest work, that right there :)
> 
> 
>   Coronavirus app will not be forced upon Australians, Scott Morrison says
>   https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-18/prime-minister-rules-out-making-coronavirus-app-mandatory/12161126
> 
>     Video: Stuart Robert says there's no tracking involved with the app (ABC News)
>     https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-18/government-stuart-robert-app-covid-corona-australia/12161480
> 
>     Prime Minister Scott Morrison has ruled out forcing Australians to download a coronavirus tracing app, one day after the Deputy Chief Medical Officer left the door open to making it mandatory.
> 
>     The Government is developing an app to bolster its ability to trace the contacts of infected Australians, but has warned it will not be effective unless at least 40 per cent of Australians download it.
> 
>     The app would use data from people's phones to allow health authorities to trace people who had been in close contact with confirmed COVID-19 cases.
> 
>     Yesterday, Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly said the Government would "start with voluntary" downloads of the app, before determining whether more action was needed.
> 
>     "I've always been a believer in the Australian people making the right decision," he said.
> 
>     "As I've said, this is an add-on to what we have in terms of contact tracing and case finding, so I think we need to make the case for an app.
> 
>     "I think we start with voluntary, and see how that goes."
> 
>     But this morning Mr Morrison tweeted that the app would not be made mandatory.
> 
>     ...
> 
> 
> 
> What today's CEO or prime minister or other politician promises, tomorrow he, she, or someone else who replaces him, will break that promise - it is only a matter of time and "appropriately dramatic" circumstances, as most of us well know.
> 
> Maintain your privacy folks, if you value your rights at all...
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 05:11:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > This is important, folks - the below outlines the front line of human tracking or "the mark of the beast", as well as some antidotes to that.
> > 
> > In this case, "The Ministry of Truth" attempts to achieve sufficient tacit consent for ubiquitous monitoring via "smart"phones.
> > 
> > This is a highly slippery slope, and potentially catastrophic for our individual and collective freedoms, so let's get a handle on this one...
> > 
> > Be warned: :: ----- crunch time is close - do everything you can to educate people, because if insufficient people are educated on this issue, the tracking that is coming ("mark of the beast") will be extraordinarily difficult to undo.
> > 
> > 
> >   Coronavirus Australia live news: Government urges Australians to use tracing app despite privacy fears
> >    By Dan Colasimone
> >    Updated April 17, 2020 15:43:40
> >   https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-17/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-covid19-latest-news/12155268
> > 
> >     Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly has not ruled out making a coronavirus tracing app compulsory if not enough people install it voluntarily.
> > 
> >     "We start with voluntary and then we see how it goes," Professor Kelly told an afternoon press conference.
> > 
> >     http://livenews.abc.net.au/Event/Coronavirus_Australia_live_news :
> >     Some more details on the government's coronavirus-tracking app
> > 
> >     The app uses Bluetooth technology to track coronavirus victims and the people they come in contact with.
> >     https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-14/coronavirus-app-government-wants-australians-to-download/12148210
> >         .. The Federal Government believes restrictions on the community could be eased in the months ahead if there's more testing, greater surveillance of those infected by the coronavirus and much faster tracing of those they've had contact with.
> > 
> >     The government’s given us some more detail, confirming data collected from the app would be uploaded to a server in the event someone tests positive to COVID-19.
> > 
> >     This is significant, because some experts argue if the data is stored on a server it would attract privacy threats from hackers, and would also act as a disincentive for people to sign-up to the app.
> >     https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-15/challenge-to-convince-australians-to-use-coronavirus-tracing-app/12151130
> > 
> >     The government believes it needs at least 40 per cent of Australians to opt-in in order for the app to be effective.
> > 
> >     The minister responsible, Stuart Robert, has told Channel 7 the information gathered will be transferred to a database, if the person who tests positive to COVID-19 agrees.
> > 
> >     "If you tested positive, the authorities would ask you to consent and that will be uploaded to a secure server," he said.
> > 
> >     "That's it, no one is tracking you, there is no surveillance."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > In the above article, these words:
> > 
> > >    The government believes it needs at least 40 per cent of Australians to opt-in in order for the app to be effective.
> > 
> > 
> > -really- mean "we need about 40% of Australians to opt in to voluntary fascist tracking, in order to establish "legal persuasion" (sufficient numbers of people, required to compel the courts to make orders against the interests of the remainder of the people) and also political influence ("40% of people agree with this already, we HAVE to enforce this upon everyone, to SAVE LIVES - so please, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!").
> > 
> > This is the heart of why the above propaganda is so insidious - it is an attempt to covertly introduce and impose a fascist human tracking regime, "by the consent of the governed" - and to do this, all they need is about 40% of the entire population to opt in.
> > 
> > Very fine Ministry propaganda, and opt-in fascism at its finest...  Whoever wrote up the above ABC article gets a Fascism 'Badge Of Covert Fascism' badge award for "covert fascism".
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------
> > Antidotes, when in times of viral or similar medical pandemic crisis:
> > 
> >   - We each have the fundamental human right to isolate or quarantine ourselves and our family, in order to protect ourselves and others.
> > 
> >   - We do have a duty of care to one another, and we have the right to satisfy this duty of care by isolating, if we contract a virus, in order to not spread the disease to other humans.
> > 
> >   - We have the fundamental human right to make informed decisions in regards to our health, excepting that if we have a known contageous condition, that we satisfy our duty of care to other humans in our community, for example by quarantining or isolating ourselves.
> > 
> >   - If we become infected, or if we are at risk of becoming infeced, we have the right to make our own informed decisions about each and every medical procedure (such as vaccination, intravenous vitamin C, etc) that we choose to receive, or choose to not receive.
> > 
> >   - Parents have the fundamental right to make informed decisions in relation to their children, which right overrides (i.e. which is superior to) the state's authority to impose any medical treatment, so long as the parent satisfies their duty of care to other people within our community.
> > 
> >  - Fundamentally, we each have the right to educate ourselves, to read and otherwise to learn about the pros and cons of any and every medical treatment which is suggested, recommended or otherwise "ordered" by the state, and we have the right to choose to receive, and the right to choose to not receive, such medical treatment.
> > 