http://www.onion-router.net/History.html 1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR. http://cypherpunks.venona.com/ grep onion cyp-1993.txt # For example, Eric Messick calls his things "onions," suggesting multiple "(For example, Eric Messick calls his things "onions," suggesting multiple layers of "return postage guaranteed" envelopes. This may be a great idea, and even a great name (which we may all be using in 5 years)," Also, the idea of multiple, nested, encrpyted 'envelopes' that contain routing information is routinely mentioned at that time, if I'm not mistaken.
http://www.onion-router.net/History.html
1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/
grep onion cyp-1993.txt
# For example, Eric Messick calls his things "onions," suggesting multiple
Interesting … the ISO NLSP-C did not call it’self an ‘opinion’, but about 1993 it supported multiple tunnel encapsulations that could be used for anonymity services ( https://goo.gl/CG9Koc ). It was derived from the 89 vintage NSA defined SP3-C protocol ( http://goo.gl/QEp67F ).
"(For example, Eric Messick calls his things "onions," suggesting multiple layers of "return postage guaranteed" envelopes. This may be a great idea, and even a great name (which we may all be using in 5 years),"
Also, the idea of multiple, nested, encrpyted 'envelopes' that contain routing information is routinely mentioned at that time, if I'm not mistaken.
On 8/3/15, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
... http://www.onion-router.net/History.html 1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
back in this day, fully saturated ISDN pairs made for great zero knowledge overlays, too. the real question is, what do you propose to do better? if TCP Tor is just a jump toward datagram traffic analysis resistant overlays, how little it matters what origins for this open source", distributed, public infrastructure? cooperation is the future. learn to do it least badly :P best regards,
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:36:00 -0700 coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/3/15, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
... http://www.onion-router.net/History.html 1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
back in this day, fully saturated ISDN pairs made for great zero knowledge overlays, too.
the real question is, what do you propose to do better?
what I was getting at is that, if I'm not mistaken, syverson and co. claim to have 'invented' 'onion routing' but they didn't come up with the ideas and didn't even come up with the name apparently
if TCP Tor is just a jump toward datagram traffic analysis resistant overlays, how little it matters what origins for this open source", distributed, public infrastructure?
do you consider your governemnt to be a 'repressive regime' coderman? does tor protect people from your goverment's attacks? do you think tor helps the US government in any way? do you think it's 'hypotetically' acceptable to murder say a 100 people so that 1 million people can 'anonymously' browse their newspaper or favorite sports website?
cooperation is the future. learn to do it least badly :P
best regards,
i think there could be solutions utilized like easily shifting the ip address of comp and router yourself in your own little hut > 'ghost' it but not thru others .... pretty fucking simple i know but maybe effective in a really different way than having the fake government of the US build something and use people that are activists against them to make it work also i think the infrastructure is too bulky i like to think about satelites (and thats all i will say about that) - i dont know i would have to have a real think about solutions it is very important to think about it and not just the problem for sure but i dont think the methodology of tor is a solution i think it is a stoppage point that people are not seeing beyond ... people dont think it has been penetrated and i have no proof of that but maybe that isnt the main problem for me ... structurally speaking it is a disaster ... the masses being handed a tool in order to subvert the government??? as they say you cant make this shit up i know that when i was in syria i could get a fucking video call in the desert where there was nothing ... this was syria not a rich country per say like at all so i think the choking of the communication system is super in play ... if others dont think thats a problem then they need to educate themselves ... do people that live in the US on this list even know that the infrastructure of fiber optics that underlies the communications may not even be utilized in their city and that the reason it is not used is because the communication companies bought a contract with there city that freezes it all up? please look into the chatanooga model if you dont know about this 'freemarket' bullshit>>>> also fyi iraq had video calls nationwide in 2000 or even before ... now i am not sure what tech they were using i think radiowaves and shooting the signal over land that way but it all points to a tremendous shut down of functionality .... not that it was probably all that healthy for people but... sure we can write each other little words on this frame of communications but see what happens when attempting to shift in a large way ... like when they printed the 3d gun... people had to git fr USA & like when barrett made project pm and this is a major reason i think there should be as many solutions as possible not just one - not as easy for gov/corp to take them out On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:36:00 -0700 coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/3/15, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
... http://www.onion-router.net/History.html 1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
back in this day, fully saturated ISDN pairs made for great zero knowledge overlays, too.
the real question is, what do you propose to do better?
what I was getting at is that, if I'm not mistaken, syverson and co. claim to have 'invented' 'onion routing'
but they didn't come up with the ideas and didn't even come up with the name apparently
if TCP Tor is just a jump toward datagram traffic analysis resistant overlays, how little it matters what origins for this open source", distributed, public infrastructure?
do you consider your governemnt to be a 'repressive regime' coderman?
does tor protect people from your goverment's attacks?
do you think tor helps the US government in any way?
do you think it's 'hypotetically' acceptable to murder say a 100 people so that 1 million people can 'anonymously' browse their newspaper or favorite sports website?
cooperation is the future. learn to do it least badly :P
best regards,
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
Yes, just get a new DHCP lease - rock solid. This is actually pretty easy; First read the protocol spec then read the code. If there is a backdoor or vulnerability, please let everyone know. If you can do away with evils like centralized directory servers while retaining sybill resistance please publish your ideas. If your arguments are that the project is intrinsically evil, by virtue of the authors being tainted with 'reptilian money' - that's not really a technically robust. -Travis On Wed, Aug 5, 2015, 9:24 AM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
i think there could be solutions utilized like easily shifting the ip address of comp and router yourself in your own little hut > 'ghost' it but not thru others .... pretty fucking simple i know but maybe effective in a really different way than having the fake government of the US build something and use people that are activists against them to make it work also i think the infrastructure is too bulky
i like to think about satelites (and thats all i will say about that) - i dont know i would have to have a real think about solutions it is very important to think about it and not just the problem for sure but i dont think the methodology of tor is a solution i think it is a stoppage point that people are not seeing beyond ... people dont think it has been penetrated and i have no proof of that but maybe that isnt the main problem for me ... structurally speaking it is a disaster ... the masses being handed a tool in order to subvert the government??? as they say you cant make this shit up
i know that when i was in syria i could get a fucking video call in the desert where there was nothing ... this was syria not a rich country per say like at all so i think the choking of the communication system is super in play ... if others dont think thats a problem then they need to educate themselves ... do people that live in the US on this list even know that the infrastructure of fiber optics that underlies the communications may not even be utilized in their city and that the reason it is not used is because the communication companies bought a contract with there city that freezes it all up? please look into the chatanooga model if you dont know about this 'freemarket' bullshit>>>> also fyi iraq had video calls nationwide in 2000 or even before ... now i am not sure what tech they were using i think radiowaves and shooting the signal over land that way but it all points to a tremendous shut down of functionality .... not that it was probably all that healthy for people but...
sure we can write each other little words on this frame of communications but see what happens when attempting to shift in a large way ... like when they printed the 3d gun... people had to git fr USA & like when barrett made project pm and this is a major reason i think there should be as many solutions as possible not just one - not as easy for gov/corp to take them out
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:36:00 -0700 coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/3/15, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
... http://www.onion-router.net/History.html 1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
back in this day, fully saturated ISDN pairs made for great zero knowledge overlays, too.
the real question is, what do you propose to do better?
what I was getting at is that, if I'm not mistaken, syverson and co. claim to have 'invented' 'onion routing'
but they didn't come up with the ideas and didn't even come up with the name apparently
if TCP Tor is just a jump toward datagram traffic analysis resistant overlays, how little it matters what origins for this open source", distributed, public infrastructure?
do you consider your governemnt to be a 'repressive regime' coderman?
does tor protect people from your goverment's attacks?
do you think tor helps the US government in any way?
do you think it's 'hypotetically' acceptable to murder say a 100 people so that 1 million people can 'anonymously' browse their newspaper or favorite sports website?
cooperation is the future. learn to do it least badly :P
best regards,
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
its religious thought to even utilize the word 'evil' let alone think in those terms and religious thought is a capitalist parasite >>> read nietzsche for fuck sake he wrote in the 1800's one of my arguments is that it is structurally unsound to rely on one method >>> especially if built by your enemy - i look to nature as other thinkers do/have and i think about buckminster fuller - his analysis of panther dna making them vulnerable to extinction because it is all so/too similar ... in any given situation i do not think in terms of one solution ... i have used this analogy before ... sperm: there are lots of them in one load ... they all race to get to the egg sure but, they actually help each other to penetrate - they dont care who gets in as long as one of them transforms the egg into a being (i mean i cant really speak for sperms in general but it has been analysed like this)... thats their job ...they even have been seen to help each other non-competative like :: this is the kind of structures we need moreso not monolithic structures that blind us ... its really a geometry problem for me... math but also it is all ethical to me as well : if my family was murdered by a fucker i wouldnt go and use that fuckers infrastructure cause they made it for me to use and sent some other fuckers around the globe selling it cause like the fucker murdered my family i wont support them in any way ever ....why would i talk myself into supporting the murderer of my family when i could think about, invent or utilize other methods - its just really not logical On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Travis Biehn <tbiehn@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, just get a new DHCP lease - rock solid.
This is actually pretty easy; First read the protocol spec then read the code.
If there is a backdoor or vulnerability, please let everyone know.
If you can do away with evils like centralized directory servers while retaining sybill resistance please publish your ideas.
If your arguments are that the project is intrinsically evil, by virtue of the authors being tainted with 'reptilian money' - that's not really a technically robust.
-Travis
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015, 9:24 AM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
i think there could be solutions utilized like easily shifting the ip address of comp and router yourself in your own little hut > 'ghost' it but not thru others .... pretty fucking simple i know but maybe effective in a really different way than having the fake government of the US build something and use people that are activists against them to make it work also i think the infrastructure is too bulky
i like to think about satelites (and thats all i will say about that) - i dont know i would have to have a real think about solutions it is very important to think about it and not just the problem for sure but i dont think the methodology of tor is a solution i think it is a stoppage point that people are not seeing beyond ... people dont think it has been penetrated and i have no proof of that but maybe that isnt the main problem for me ... structurally speaking it is a disaster ... the masses being handed a tool in order to subvert the government??? as they say you cant make this shit up
i know that when i was in syria i could get a fucking video call in the desert where there was nothing ... this was syria not a rich country per say like at all so i think the choking of the communication system is super in play ... if others dont think thats a problem then they need to educate themselves ... do people that live in the US on this list even know that the infrastructure of fiber optics that underlies the communications may not even be utilized in their city and that the reason it is not used is because the communication companies bought a contract with there city that freezes it all up? please look into the chatanooga model if you dont know about this 'freemarket' bullshit>>>> also fyi iraq had video calls nationwide in 2000 or even before ... now i am not sure what tech they were using i think radiowaves and shooting the signal over land that way but it all points to a tremendous shut down of functionality .... not that it was probably all that healthy for people but...
sure we can write each other little words on this frame of communications but see what happens when attempting to shift in a large way ... like when they printed the 3d gun... people had to git fr USA & like when barrett made project pm and this is a major reason i think there should be as many solutions as possible not just one - not as easy for gov/corp to take them out
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:36:00 -0700 coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/3/15, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
... http://www.onion-router.net/History.html 1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
back in this day, fully saturated ISDN pairs made for great zero knowledge overlays, too.
the real question is, what do you propose to do better?
what I was getting at is that, if I'm not mistaken, syverson and co. claim to have 'invented' 'onion routing'
but they didn't come up with the ideas and didn't even come up with the name apparently
if TCP Tor is just a jump toward datagram traffic analysis resistant overlays, how little it matters what origins for this open source", distributed, public infrastructure?
do you consider your governemnt to be a 'repressive regime' coderman?
does tor protect people from your goverment's attacks?
do you think tor helps the US government in any way?
do you think it's 'hypotetically' acceptable to murder say a 100 people so that 1 million people can 'anonymously' browse their newspaper or favorite sports website?
cooperation is the future. learn to do it least badly :P
best regards,
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
its religious thought to even utilize the word 'evil' let alone think in those terms and religious thought is a capitalist parasite >>> read nietzsche for fuck sake he wrote in the 1800's
That's my point, glad we agree.
one of my arguments is that it is structurally unsound to rely on one method >>> especially if built by your enemy - i look to nature as other thinkers do/have and i think about buckminster fuller - his analysis of panther dna making them vulnerable to extinction because it is all so/too similar ... in any given situation i do not think in terms of one solution ... i have used this analogy before ... sperm: there are lots of them in one load ... they all race to get to the egg sure but, they actually help each other to penetrate - they dont care who gets in as long as one of them transforms the egg into a being (i mean i cant really speak for sperms in general but it has been analysed like this)... thats their job ...they even have been seen to help each other non-competative like :: this is the kind of structures we need moreso not monolithic structures that blind us ... its really a geometry problem for me... math
OK, 'yes' monoculture is threatening and certain practices provide clear 'intelligence signals'. Unrestrained 'lateral thinking,' while intellectually stimulating and interesting, does not always map to fact. There's a step, where you rigorously research whether your theories are correct.
but also it is all ethical to me as well : if my family was murdered by a
fucker i wouldnt go and use that fuckers infrastructure cause they made it for me to use and sent some other fuckers around the globe selling it cause like the fucker murdered my family i wont support them in any way ever ....why would i talk myself into supporting the murderer of my family when i could think about, invent or utilize other methods - its just really not logical
This is an emotional argument, not a logical one. To continue the appeal to emotion, isn't it vaguely poetic? Using alternative methods are fine, but the existence of alternatives does not justify demonizing other approaches.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Travis Biehn <tbiehn@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, just get a new DHCP lease - rock solid.
This is actually pretty easy; First read the protocol spec then read the code.
If there is a backdoor or vulnerability, please let everyone know.
If you can do away with evils like centralized directory servers while retaining sybill resistance please publish your ideas.
If your arguments are that the project is intrinsically evil, by virtue of the authors being tainted with 'reptilian money' - that's not really a technically robust.
-Travis
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015, 9:24 AM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
i think there could be solutions utilized like easily shifting the ip address of comp and router yourself in your own little hut > 'ghost' it but not thru others .... pretty fucking simple i know but maybe effective in a really different way than having the fake government of the US build something and use people that are activists against them to make it work also i think the infrastructure is too bulky
i like to think about satelites (and thats all i will say about that) - i dont know i would have to have a real think about solutions it is very important to think about it and not just the problem for sure but i dont think the methodology of tor is a solution i think it is a stoppage point that people are not seeing beyond ... people dont think it has been penetrated and i have no proof of that but maybe that isnt the main problem for me ... structurally speaking it is a disaster ... the masses being handed a tool in order to subvert the government??? as they say you cant make this shit up
i know that when i was in syria i could get a fucking video call in the desert where there was nothing ... this was syria not a rich country per say like at all so i think the choking of the communication system is super in play ... if others dont think thats a problem then they need to educate themselves ... do people that live in the US on this list even know that the infrastructure of fiber optics that underlies the communications may not even be utilized in their city and that the reason it is not used is because the communication companies bought a contract with there city that freezes it all up? please look into the chatanooga model if you dont know about this 'freemarket' bullshit>>>> also fyi iraq had video calls nationwide in 2000 or even before ... now i am not sure what tech they were using i think radiowaves and shooting the signal over land that way but it all points to a tremendous shut down of functionality .... not that it was probably all that healthy for people but...
sure we can write each other little words on this frame of communications but see what happens when attempting to shift in a large way ... like when they printed the 3d gun... people had to git fr USA & like when barrett made project pm and this is a major reason i think there should be as many solutions as possible not just one - not as easy for gov/corp to take them out
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:36:00 -0700 coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/3/15, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
... http://www.onion-router.net/History.html 1995: Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
back in this day, fully saturated ISDN pairs made for great zero knowledge overlays, too.
the real question is, what do you propose to do better?
what I was getting at is that, if I'm not mistaken, syverson and co. claim to have 'invented' 'onion routing'
but they didn't come up with the ideas and didn't even come up with the name apparently
if TCP Tor is just a jump toward datagram traffic analysis resistant overlays, how little it matters what origins for this open source", distributed, public infrastructure?
do you consider your governemnt to be a 'repressive regime' coderman?
does tor protect people from your goverment's attacks?
do you think tor helps the US government in any way?
do you think it's 'hypotetically' acceptable to murder say a 100 people so that 1 million people can 'anonymously' browse their newspaper or favorite sports website?
cooperation is the future. learn to do it least badly :P
best regards,
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
-- Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
i dont see it as poetry or emotion i see it as logic but prove logic to be lacking poetry or emotion empirically/logically these kinds of degrading segregations or silos of thought are also christian in my mind which in turn for me is capitalist like in an anti-enlightenment kind of way ie logic good emotion or instinct bad instinct is really important to understand like in the tsunami that hit thailand remember ? Animals didnt really die en mass as they knew it was coming so they got out of dodge as they say ... did they have a gauge that told them to get the fuck out sure they are closer to life so they can sense it better or they got a signal in some form .... sound probably its really logical actually but why didnt oh so logical humans get the same info? ethics are not emotional by nature - really ethics are logical we may get hints that something doesnt feel right in our gut but then i think it can be logically laid out as to why as well : murder isnt just emotional there are lots of factual ramifications that follow from the murder as i am native american and basically my family was murdered by the fake USG i can first person talk about the logical ramifications of my family not being allowed to exist please prove your point about `lateral thinking` which i would term horizontality ... if it isnt effective in a given space i often have seen that the structures that are monolithic are why so i would be interested to see any other formulations ... as i am a problem seeker ...uuuuhhh then i know where to work i think we agree that ideology is not functional but i am not sure we see the same problems to solve ... i am not sure there is a clear understanding that life is being heavily designed by a 'few' people in power and they are designing it for many years to come like they have plans and shit so... somehow i dont think the plans include medicine for the sick or literacy for everyone... lets not even discuss food and water or combating mass murder of the planets inhabitants heres a video about what people often section off as logic and emotional or creative sides of the brain ... our own interfaces should be looked at as evidence not only because of their structures information but to show our limited scope and not just thru our form but thru the manipulation/propaganda about our form/forms which you seem to be driving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU i think in order to make the machines of the future - like the ones that will decide on their own wether to kill you or not in a battle - then this kind of emotion/logic mis-equation will need to be worked on On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Travis Biehn <tbiehn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
its religious thought to even utilize the word 'evil' let alone think in those terms and religious thought is a capitalist parasite >>> read nietzsche for fuck sake he wrote in the 1800's
That's my point, glad we agree.
one of my arguments is that it is structurally unsound to rely on one method >>> especially if built by your enemy - i look to nature as other thinkers do/have and i think about buckminster fuller - his analysis of panther dna making them vulnerable to extinction because it is all so/too similar ... in any given situation i do not think in terms of one solution ... i have used this analogy before ... sperm: there are lots of them in one load ... they all race to get to the egg sure but, they actually help each other to penetrate - they dont care who gets in as long as one of them transforms the egg into a being (i mean i cant really speak for sperms in general but it has been analysed like this)... thats their job ...they even have been seen to help each other non-competative like :: this is the kind of structures we need moreso not monolithic structures that blind us ... its really a geometry problem for me... math
OK, 'yes' monoculture is threatening and certain practices provide clear 'intelligence signals'. Unrestrained 'lateral thinking,' while intellectually stimulating and interesting, does not always map to fact. There's a step, where you rigorously research whether your theories are correct.
but also it is all ethical to me as well : if my family was murdered by a
fucker i wouldnt go and use that fuckers infrastructure cause they made it for me to use and sent some other fuckers around the globe selling it cause like the fucker murdered my family i wont support them in any way ever ....why would i talk myself into supporting the murderer of my family when i could think about, invent or utilize other methods - its just really not logical
This is an emotional argument, not a logical one. To continue the appeal to emotion, isn't it vaguely poetic? Using alternative methods are fine, but the existence of alternatives does not justify demonizing other approaches.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Travis Biehn <tbiehn@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, just get a new DHCP lease - rock solid.
This is actually pretty easy; First read the protocol spec then read the code.
If there is a backdoor or vulnerability, please let everyone know.
If you can do away with evils like centralized directory servers while retaining sybill resistance please publish your ideas.
If your arguments are that the project is intrinsically evil, by virtue of the authors being tainted with 'reptilian money' - that's not really a technically robust.
-Travis
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015, 9:24 AM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
i think there could be solutions utilized like easily shifting the ip address of comp and router yourself in your own little hut > 'ghost' it but not thru others .... pretty fucking simple i know but maybe effective in a really different way than having the fake government of the US build something and use people that are activists against them to make it work also i think the infrastructure is too bulky
i like to think about satelites (and thats all i will say about that) - i dont know i would have to have a real think about solutions it is very important to think about it and not just the problem for sure but i dont think the methodology of tor is a solution i think it is a stoppage point that people are not seeing beyond ... people dont think it has been penetrated and i have no proof of that but maybe that isnt the main problem for me ... structurally speaking it is a disaster ... the masses being handed a tool in order to subvert the government??? as they say you cant make this shit up
i know that when i was in syria i could get a fucking video call in the desert where there was nothing ... this was syria not a rich country per say like at all so i think the choking of the communication system is super in play ... if others dont think thats a problem then they need to educate themselves ... do people that live in the US on this list even know that the infrastructure of fiber optics that underlies the communications may not even be utilized in their city and that the reason it is not used is because the communication companies bought a contract with there city that freezes it all up? please look into the chatanooga model if you dont know about this 'freemarket' bullshit>>>> also fyi iraq had video calls nationwide in 2000 or even before ... now i am not sure what tech they were using i think radiowaves and shooting the signal over land that way but it all points to a tremendous shut down of functionality .... not that it was probably all that healthy for people but...
sure we can write each other little words on this frame of communications but see what happens when attempting to shift in a large way ... like when they printed the 3d gun... people had to git fr USA & like when barrett made project pm and this is a major reason i think there should be as many solutions as possible not just one - not as easy for gov/corp to take them out
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:36:00 -0700 coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/3/15, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote: > ... > http://www.onion-router.net/History.html > 1995: > Initial work on Onion Routing begins, funded by ONR.
back in this day, fully saturated ISDN pairs made for great zero knowledge overlays, too.
the real question is, what do you propose to do better?
what I was getting at is that, if I'm not mistaken, syverson and co. claim to have 'invented' 'onion routing'
but they didn't come up with the ideas and didn't even come up with the name apparently
if TCP Tor is just a jump toward datagram traffic analysis resistant overlays, how little it matters what origins for this open source", distributed, public infrastructure?
do you consider your governemnt to be a 'repressive regime' coderman?
does tor protect people from your goverment's attacks?
do you think tor helps the US government in any way?
do you think it's 'hypotetically' acceptable to murder say a 100 people so that 1 million people can 'anonymously' browse their newspaper or favorite sports website?
cooperation is the future. learn to do it least badly :P
best regards,
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
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On Wed, Aug 5, 2015, 9:24 AM Cari Machet wrote:
i like to think about satelites
You don't trust tor but DO trust the satellite owners and operators?
i know that when i was in syria i could get a fucking video call in the desert where there was nothing
...and the NRO was logging it, as they say in Southern California, 'fershure!'.\ RR
did i say anything about owners or operators??? ... c'mon stop trying to catch me at being an idiot its reverb is low sound wave quality - i am massively sure i am not the smartest person ever but i aint really stupid k? yay in syria and lotsa other places you gotta give ur passport to get a sim ... not all places though ...spain could give a fuck who you are On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Paul Lambert <nymble@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting … the ISO NLSP-C did not call it’self an ‘opinion’, but about 1993 it supported multiple tunnel encapsulations that could be used for anonymity services ( https://goo.gl/CG9Koc ). It was derived from the 89 vintage NSA defined SP3-C protocol ( http://goo.gl/QEp67F ).
paul i love it 'Traffic Flow Confidentiality is a service provided by either mode of NLSP to deter traffic flow analysis. The benefits of this feature have long been known by the military community' hahhahhahahhahaha ....peeling the layers back of the onion http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/headline-story/9895/jeremy-hamm... 'That was enough for a judge to grant the FBI a warrant and permission to
secretly install what’s known as a pen/trap device, which allowed for the monitoring of Hammond’s Internet activity at the end of February 2012. That, coupled with the physical surveillance, allowed the agency to see when he was home. What they found correlated with his Tor usage...'
++++++++++++++ just found this cute little mitish qatarian hack http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/29/mit_boffins_identify_tor_hidden_serv... just found this cute little mitish qatarian hack The boffins showed that "simply by looking for patterns in the number of
packets passing in each direction through a guard, machine-learning algorithms could, with 99 per cent accuracy, determine whether the circuit was an ordinary Web-browsing circuit, an introduction-point circuit or a rendezvous-point circuit." They were able to do this through simple traffic correlation, which is available even when the traffic is encrypted. Furthermore, by using a Tor-enabled computer to connect to a range of different hidden services, they showed that a similar analysis of traffic patterns could identify those services with 88 per cent accuracy. That means that an adversary who lucked into the position of guard for a computer hosting a hidden service, could, with 88 per cent certainty, identify it as the service’s host.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Razer <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015, 9:24 AM Cari Machet wrote:
i like to think about satelites
You don't trust tor but DO trust the satellite owners and operators?
i know that when i was in syria i could get a fucking video call in the desert where there was nothing
...and the NRO was logging it, as they say in Southern California, 'fershure!'.\
RR
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
participants (6)
-
Cari Machet -
coderman -
Juan -
Paul Lambert -
Razer -
Travis Biehn