Privacy advocates resign over facial recognition plans
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/16/privacy-advocates-resign-prote... Technology industry lobbyists have so thoroughly hijacked the Commerce Department process for developing a voluntary code of conduct for the use of facial recognition technology that nine privacy advocates involved withdrew in protest on Monday. “At a base minimum, people should be able to walk down a public street without fear that companies they’ve never heard of are tracking their every movement ... Unfortunately, we have been unable to obtain agreement even with that basic, specific premise. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/06/17/1931216/privacy-advocates-leave-in-pr... http://cvdazzle.com/ Ever notice the shiny new door, camera and register systems at Walmart? Wonder if retail is Stingray'ing patrons IMEI's into such databases? See the boxes popping up on roadsides, cameras and antenna arrays on poles and buildings at every intersection? All the pointless info and blood you have to give? In order to simply move and live and talk? For what, exactly, in return? Disgusting. Cypherpunks... when / where will it all end?
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015, at 02:28 PM, grarpamp wrote:
Ever notice the shiny new door, camera and register systems at Walmart? Wonder if retail is Stingray'ing patrons IMEI's into such databases? See the boxes popping up on roadsides, cameras and antenna arrays on poles and buildings at every intersection? All the pointless info and blood you have to give? In order to simply move and live and talk? For what, exactly, in return? Disgusting. Cypherpunks... when / where will it all end?
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever." - George Orwell, 1984 Alfie -- Alfie John alfiej@fastmail.fm
fucking disney began the facial recognition thing ... for fascist capitalist gain ... they were sued over it so every person that supports fascist capitalists like disney is in collusion ... it wont stop until people decide that they are individually responsible for the build and change their fucked up parasitic behavior On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 6:36 AM, Alfie John <alfiej@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015, at 02:28 PM, grarpamp wrote:
Ever notice the shiny new door, camera and register systems at Walmart? Wonder if retail is Stingray'ing patrons IMEI's into such databases? See the boxes popping up on roadsides, cameras and antenna arrays on poles and buildings at every intersection? All the pointless info and blood you have to give? In order to simply move and live and talk? For what, exactly, in return? Disgusting. Cypherpunks... when / where will it all end?
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever." - George Orwell, 1984
Alfie
-- Alfie John alfiej@fastmail.fm
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
2015-06-18 13:28 GMT+09:00 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>:
Cypherpunks... when / where will it all end?
The cost of observation is ever dropping. With improved processing capability (hardware and software) the value of data is ever rising. There is only one logical conclusion: permanent, global observation. Resistance is effective but eventually futile, you cannot reverse time, you cannot reverse progress. More fruitful is managing the inevitable future. Will we go gently into corporate hell? Will we let power games rule us? Do the wealthy buy privacy, and the people's data? Will you, at the very least, own the data about you? Will populism be managed by algorithms? Do our current systems still work in such a future? How will the developed areas relate to the underdeveloped? Etc. etc. etc.
Dnia czwartek, 18 czerwca 2015 21:46:33 Lodewijk andré de la porte pisze:
2015-06-18 13:28 GMT+09:00 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>:
Cypherpunks... when / where will it all end?
The cost of observation is ever dropping. With improved processing capability (hardware and software) the value of data is ever rising. There is only one logical conclusion: permanent, global observation.
Resistance is effective but eventually futile, you cannot reverse time, you cannot reverse progress.
But maybe we can find ways to raise the cost of surveillance? -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On 06/28/2015 10:57 AM, rysiek wrote:
But maybe we can find ways to raise the cost of surveillance?
I'm still considering sending encrypted pics of lulzcats with every mundane email I send to force the NSA to store it for 'perpetuity'. "and if 50 people a day walked in, sang a bar of Alice's Restaurant, and walked out, they MIGHT think it was a movement" ~Arlo Guthrie
Dnia poniedziałek, 29 czerwca 2015 13:03:42 Razer pisze:
On 06/28/2015 10:57 AM, rysiek wrote:
But maybe we can find ways to raise the cost of surveillance?
I'm still considering sending encrypted pics of lulzcats with every mundane email I send to force the NSA to store it for 'perpetuity'.
Hah, good call.
"and if 50 people a day walked in, sang a bar of Alice's Restaurant, and walked out, they MIGHT think it was a movement" ~Arlo Guthrie
+1 :) -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
so what do we know about the fucking iris scans and where the fucking data is stored on that are federal judges subjected to iris scans? On Jul 2, 2015 12:55 PM, "rysiek" <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia poniedziałek, 29 czerwca 2015 13:03:42 Razer pisze:
On 06/28/2015 10:57 AM, rysiek wrote:
But maybe we can find ways to raise the cost of surveillance?
I'm still considering sending encrypted pics of lulzcats with every mundane email I send to force the NSA to store it for 'perpetuity'.
Hah, good call.
"and if 50 people a day walked in, sang a bar of Alice's Restaurant, and walked out, they MIGHT think it was a movement" ~Arlo Guthrie
+1 :)
-- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem? We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US. Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us. Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
David would argue that the power elites will never allow themselves to be blinded, so that is not really one of our options. We can choose to watch back or not, and he would suggest that we should do so. There is some merit to the argument. Lance -- Lance Cottrell loki@obscura.com
On Aug 11, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem? We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us.
Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:07:54 -0700 Lance Cottrell <loki@obscura.com> wrote:
David would argue that the power elites will never allow themselves to be blinded, so that is not really one of our options. We can choose to watch back or not, and he would suggest that we should do so.
There is some merit to the argument.
no there isn't.
We can choose to watch back or not
Dishonest bullshit. Let me know when that guy david gains access to the world's telecom networks and 'shares' it with the serfs.
Lance
-- Lance Cottrell loki@obscura.com
On Aug 11, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem? We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us.
Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
On 8/11/15, Lance Cottrell <loki@obscura.com> wrote:
David would argue that the power elites will never allow themselves to be blinded, so that is not really one of our options.
let them watch constructions; shadows against the wall...
We can choose to watch back or not, and he would suggest that we should do so.
this too, do!
There is some merit to the argument.
a distinction between decentralized power in service to users, all peers, vs. centralized power concentrated in hands of few. one of these architectures is more robust; one of these architectures will prevail. :) best regards,
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:49:45 +0000 Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem?
it's stupid pro-establishment propaganda.
We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them.
In some fantasy land, yes. In the real world, no.
The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us.
what? Oh, by the way, we are your 'snowden leaks'?
Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
Do you have to ask? Or are you trolling?
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power. Of course, those monitoring are often punished, so necessarily the ability to monitor *and* hide go hand in hand. In other words I reckon the approach of fighting mass surveillance (including acknowledging that corporations are NOT people and their surveillance is qualitatively different from my private CCTV system) and pushing for greater transparency, in tandem with mass-crypto and ubiquitous sousveillance, is exactly the right thing to do..and it's more or less what I think we're doing already globally with the cypherpunk, pirate party, and eff-ist movements. On 11/08/15 20:49, Sean Lynch wrote:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem? We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us.
Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
-- Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July Learn more at indie.bio and follow along! Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:15:26 +0100 Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power.
yet more pro-establishment propaganda. sure, the social democrat and statist clown garvey is going to 'hold accountable' his masters by voting and 'encrypting' his mail...
Of course, those monitoring are often punished, so necessarily the ability to monitor *and* hide go hand in hand.
In other words I reckon the approach of fighting mass surveillance (including acknowledging that corporations are NOT people and their surveillance is qualitatively different from my private CCTV system) and pushing for greater transparency, in tandem with mass-crypto and ubiquitous sousveillance, is exactly the right thing to do..and it's more or less what I think we're doing already globally with the cypherpunk, pirate party, and eff-ist movements.
On 11/08/15 20:49, Sean Lynch wrote:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem? We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us.
Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 17:21:02 Juan pisze:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:15:26 +0100
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power.
yet more pro-establishment propaganda.
sure, the social democrat and statist clown garvey is going to 'hold accountable' his masters by voting and 'encrypting' his mail...
Thang $DEITY for Juan, who will soon (I'm sure!) enlighten all of us with a silver bullet to solve all social, political and any and all other kinds of problems! -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:29:38 +0200 rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 17:21:02 Juan pisze:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:15:26 +0100
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power.
yet more pro-establishment propaganda.
sure, the social democrat and statist clown garvey is going to 'hold accountable' his masters by voting and 'encrypting' his mail...
Thang $DEITY for Juan, who will soon (I'm sure!) enlighten all of us with a silver bullet to solve all social, political and any and all other kinds of problems!
Your reply is meaningles rysiek. Well it's obvious you don't have any argument and just want to believe in unrealistic bullshit. You, too, let me know when you guys start 'watching' and 'holding accountable' your 'representatives' aka your masters. I'll be waiting for you to post the access credentials to phone companies, ISPs, datacenters and the like, so that we can start 'watching' the government just like they watch us.
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 17:43:58 Juan pisze:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:29:38 +0200
rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 17:21:02 Juan pisze:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:15:26 +0100
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power.
yet more pro-establishment propaganda.
sure, the social democrat and statist clown garvey is going
to 'hold accountable' his masters by voting and 'encrypting' his
mail...
Thang $DEITY for Juan, who will soon (I'm sure!) enlighten all of us with a silver bullet to solve all social, political and any and all other kinds of problems!
Your reply is meaningles rysiek. Well it's obvious you don't have any argument and just want to believe in unrealistic bullshit.
You, too, let me know when you guys start 'watching' and 'holding accountable' your 'representatives' aka your masters.
So far, I'd say I'm doing a decent job at that. Exhibit A: 1. http://rys.io/en/59 2. http://rys.io/en/62 3. http://rys.io/en/70 Exhibit B: 1. http://rys.io/en/94 2. http://rys.io/en/109 Your point? -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:50:27 +0200 rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 17:43:58 Juan pisze:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:29:38 +0200
rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 17:21:02 Juan pisze:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:15:26 +0100
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power.
yet more pro-establishment propaganda.
sure, the social democrat and statist clown garvey is going
to 'hold accountable' his masters by voting and 'encrypting' his
mail...
Thang $DEITY for Juan, who will soon (I'm sure!) enlighten all of us with a silver bullet to solve all social, political and any and all other kinds of problems!
Your reply is meaningles rysiek. Well it's obvious you don't have any argument and just want to believe in unrealistic bullshit.
You, too, let me know when you guys start 'watching' and 'holding accountable' your 'representatives' aka your masters.
So far, I'd say I'm doing a decent job at that.
lol - except you aren't. And sorry this is a mailing list. If you have something to say say it here. Your links get ignored - as they should.
Exhibit A: 1. http://rys.io/en/59 2. http://rys.io/en/62 3. http://rys.io/en/70
Exhibit B: 1. http://rys.io/en/94 2. http://rys.io/en/109
Your point?
On 08/11/2015 02:43 PM, Juan wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:29:38 +0200 rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 17:21:02 Juan pisze:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:15:26 +0100
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power.
yet more pro-establishment propaganda.
sure, the social democrat and statist clown garvey is going to 'hold accountable' his masters by voting and 'encrypting' his mail...
Thang $DEITY for Juan, who will soon (I'm sure!) enlighten all of us with a silver bullet to solve all social, political and any and all other kinds of problems!
Your reply is meaningles rysiek. Well it's obvious you don't have any argument and just want to believe in unrealistic bullshit.
He was mocking you, yes. But I don't recall much from you except criticism of others' ideas, plans, projects, etc.
You, too, let me know when you guys start 'watching' and 'holding accountable' your 'representatives' aka your masters.
I'll be waiting for you to post the access credentials to phone companies, ISPs, datacenters and the like, so that we can start 'watching' the government just like they watch us.
That information is out there. But it doesn't get posted on open mail lists. Results are put online, via WikiLeaks, Cryptome, pastebins, etc. But once access info goes public, it becomes useless.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:11:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
He was mocking you, yes. But I don't recall much from you except criticism of others' ideas, plans, projects, etc.
Yes, exactly. Valid criticism of stuff that doesn't work and is morally fucked up. You have a problem with that? You want people to try to sell garbage and go unchallenged?
You, too, let me know when you guys start 'watching' and 'holding accountable' your 'representatives' aka your masters.
I'll be waiting for you to post the access credentials to phone companies, ISPs, datacenters and the like, so that we can start 'watching' the government just like they watch us.
That information is out there.
What information is out there? Are you missing the point on purpose? The networks are 'owned' by the government and friends, and there obviously is no fucking way for joe six pack to use their infrastructure to 'watch' his masters.
But it doesn't get posted on open mail lists. Results are put online, via WikiLeaks, Cryptome, pastebins,
Not what I was getting at, not to mention, the amount of stuff that gets posted is (pretty) small.
etc. But once access info goes public, it becomes useless.
Of course. Like I said, the networks are owned by the government. Temporary glitches in security don't mean much, if anything. Oh, and let me know when the nsa really gets 'hacked' as opposed as having one employee betray them.
On 08/11/2015 04:34 PM, Juan wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:11:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
He was mocking you, yes. But I don't recall much from you except criticism of others' ideas, plans, projects, etc.
Yes, exactly. Valid criticism of stuff that doesn't work and is morally fucked up.
You have a problem with that? You want people to try to sell garbage and go unchallenged?
I have no problem with calling bullshit. Not at all. But if nothing is workable, government criminals have won, and we're fucked.
You, too, let me know when you guys start 'watching' and 'holding accountable' your 'representatives' aka your masters.
I'll be waiting for you to post the access credentials to phone companies, ISPs, datacenters and the like, so that we can start 'watching' the government just like they watch us.
That information is out there.
What information is out there?
Methods, exploits, vulnerabilities, account credentials, passwords, etc, etc, etc. I'm not into that shit, but I know that it's out there.
Are you missing the point on purpose? The networks are 'owned' by the government and friends, and there obviously is no fucking way for joe six pack to use their infrastructure to 'watch' his masters.
Yes, the networks are owned by governments and their friends. But that doesn't mean that they're unusable. Free agents do get pwned, for sure. But all too often, it's bad OPSEC that gets them. Loose lips, mostly. And yes, "joe six pack" isn't doing that. But once stuff has been put online, anyone can check it out.
But it doesn't get posted on open mail lists. Results are put online, via WikiLeaks, Cryptome, pastebins,
Not what I was getting at, not to mention, the amount of stuff that gets posted is (pretty) small.
What were you getting at? We've seen some amazing shit from Snowden. It's too bad that he was too patriotic to just drop the whole wad somewhere, however. So it goes.
etc. But once access info goes public, it becomes useless.
Of course. Like I said, the networks are owned by the government. Temporary glitches in security don't mean much, if anything.
You gotta take what you can get.
Oh, and let me know when the nsa really gets 'hacked' as opposed as having one employee betray them.
They've been betrayed several times, that we know of. Mostly it's for money, and we rarely hear about that, even when people get busted. Have you read James Bamford's books on the NSA?
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:56:10 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
I have no problem with calling bullshit. Not at all. But if nothing is workable, government criminals have won, and we're fucked.
If that's the case, shooting the messenger will solve nothing. But that's not even what I said. Somebody asked about a particular idea and I commented on it.
What information is out there?
Methods, exploits, vulnerabilities, account credentials, passwords, etc, etc, etc. I'm not into that shit, but I know that it's out there.
Governments have point-and-click wiretapping capabilies for instance. Are you saying that any script kiddy has the 'passwords' to those systems?
Are you missing the point on purpose? The networks are 'owned' by the government and friends, and there obviously is no fucking way for joe six pack to use their infrastructure to 'watch' his masters.
Yes, the networks are owned by governments and their friends. But that doesn't mean that they're unusable.
Usable/unusable for what? It seems quite obvious that 'network administrators' can spy on users whereas users can't spy on networks administrators. The system is hierarchical by nature and design. And a rogue system administrator switching sides is not the same thing as users having power.
Free agents do get pwned, for sure. But all too often, it's bad OPSEC that gets them. Loose lips, mostly.
And yes, "joe six pack" isn't doing that. But once stuff has been put online, anyone can check it out.
And before the internet, people read the newspapers. Newspapers that 99% of the time worked (and work) for the powers that be. I don't think the discussion was about publishing information but about surveillance anyway. There may be some overlap but it's two different things.
But it doesn't get posted on open mail lists. Results are put online, via WikiLeaks, Cryptome, pastebins,
Not what I was getting at, not to mention, the amount of stuff that gets posted is (pretty) small.
What were you getting at? We've seen some amazing shit from Snowden. It's too bad that he was too patriotic to just drop the whole wad somewhere, however. So it goes.
That's fine and dandy, but getting and publishing some secrets doesn't counter the surveillance capabilities of the system. Also, there were (many) people who correctly assumed that the 'programs' that Snowden leaked information about, were already in place. You know, people who wore tin foil hats... But now that the information is 'officialy' public, has the nature of the surveillance mechanisms changed? Can we now track the movements of the millions of state employees? Listen to their calls? Browse their 'metadata'? Read their mails? I don't think so.
Oh, and let me know when the nsa really gets 'hacked' as opposed as having one employee betray them.
They've been betrayed several times, that we know of. Mostly it's for money, and we rarely hear about that, even when people get busted. Have you read James Bamford's books on the NSA?
No. I'll see if I get a copy.
On 08/11/2015 08:41 PM, Juan wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:56:10 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
I have no problem with calling bullshit. Not at all. But if nothing is workable, government criminals have won, and we're fucked.
If that's the case, shooting the messenger will solve nothing. But that's not even what I said.
Somebody asked about a particular idea and I commented on it.
I was commenting more on your aggregate output. But who am I to judge?
What information is out there?
Methods, exploits, vulnerabilities, account credentials, passwords, etc, etc, etc. I'm not into that shit, but I know that it's out there.
Governments have point-and-click wiretapping capabilies for instance. Are you saying that any script kiddy has the 'passwords' to those systems?
If they do, they're not sharing ;) But maybe somebody does?
Are you missing the point on purpose? The networks are 'owned' by the government and friends, and there obviously is no fucking way for joe six pack to use their infrastructure to 'watch' his masters.
Yes, the networks are owned by governments and their friends. But that doesn't mean that they're unusable.
Usable/unusable for what? It seems quite obvious that 'network administrators' can spy on users whereas users can't spy on networks administrators. The system is hierarchical by nature and design.
Spying on traffic, sure. But end-to-end encryption can provide some privacy. And it's possible to anonymize the metadata. If I care to, I can work through chains of proxies, using anonymously leased VPS with minimal desktops, and remote X via ssh from one to the next, routed through nested chains of VPNs and/or Tor. Latency gets huge, but it's usable.
And a rogue system administrator switching sides is not the same thing as users having power.
How do you imagine that users would have power? Even if you and your friends built your own private Internet, I can't imagine that you've give too much power to other random users. You'd be hosed all too soon.
Free agents do get pwned, for sure. But all too often, it's bad OPSEC that gets them. Loose lips, mostly.
And yes, "joe six pack" isn't doing that. But once stuff has been put online, anyone can check it out.
And before the internet, people read the newspapers. Newspapers that 99% of the time worked (and work) for the powers that be.
True. But the Internet is far less manageable than that.
I don't think the discussion was about publishing information but about surveillance anyway. There may be some overlap but it's two different things.
I was talking about publishing results of surveillance. Have you checked out any of the Sony or Hacking Team data dumps?
But it doesn't get posted on open mail lists. Results are put online, via WikiLeaks, Cryptome, pastebins,
Not what I was getting at, not to mention, the amount of stuff that gets posted is (pretty) small.
Manning's dump was huge, Juan!
What were you getting at? We've seen some amazing shit from Snowden. It's too bad that he was too patriotic to just drop the whole wad somewhere, however. So it goes.
That's fine and dandy, but getting and publishing some secrets doesn't counter the surveillance capabilities of the system.
Yes, but it does help us improve our OPSEC.
Also, there were (many) people who correctly assumed that the 'programs' that Snowden leaked information about, were already in place. You know, people who wore tin foil hats...
I've followed this stuff for 20 years, and I'm a fairly technical guy, so broadly speaking, there weren't many surprises. Indeed, although the NSA has immense resources, Google is far more technical. According to Silicon Jungle, the NSA hired Google to build the search component of XKeyscore ;)
But now that the information is 'officialy' public, has the nature of the surveillance mechanisms changed?
Maybe the nature hasn't changed, but the effectiveness has. For example, Google encrypted its data center interlinks. I'm sure that others are locking down their shit too.
Can we now track the movements of the millions of state employees? Listen to their calls? Browse their 'metadata'? Read their mails? I don't think so.
Well, the NSA certainly can. And China is coming up fast. But individuals lack structures for cooperation. That's a hard problem.
Oh, and let me know when the nsa really gets 'hacked' as opposed as having one employee betray them.
They've been betrayed several times, that we know of. Mostly it's for money, and we rarely hear about that, even when people get busted. Have you read James Bamford's books on the NSA?
No. I'll see if I get a copy.
The Puzzle Palace: Inside the National Security Agency, America's Most Secret Intelligence Organization by James Bamford (Sep 29, 1983) Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency by James Bamford (Apr 30, 2002) A Pretext for War: 9/11, Iraq, and the Abuse of America's Intelligence Agencies by James Bamford (Jun 8, 2004) The Shadow Factory: The NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America by James Bamford (Jul 14, 2009) I recommend reading them in that order.
its a strange strange complex i will never understand ... its as if they got the fight beat out of them and they just want silence out of all the trauma they have endured - this is the solution they find admirable\desirable ... then ask for officials to be held ` 'accountable ' please beauties point me in the direction of the 'accountability office' on fatherfucking another fucking universe vortex vacuum some weird thing in the center of a black whole that births new stars or some crap proving once again there is no nothing for fuck sake peoplish movements On Aug 12, 2015 1:39 AM, "Juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:11:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
He was mocking you, yes. But I don't recall much from you except criticism of others' ideas, plans, projects, etc.
Yes, exactly. Valid criticism of stuff that doesn't work and is morally fucked up.
You have a problem with that? You want people to try to sell garbage and go unchallenged?
You, too, let me know when you guys start 'watching' and 'holding accountable' your 'representatives' aka your masters.
I'll be waiting for you to post the access credentials to phone companies, ISPs, datacenters and the like, so that we can start 'watching' the government just like they watch us.
That information is out there.
What information is out there?
Are you missing the point on purpose? The networks are 'owned' by the government and friends, and there obviously is no fucking way for joe six pack to use their infrastructure to 'watch' his masters.
But it doesn't get posted on open mail lists. Results are put online, via WikiLeaks, Cryptome, pastebins,
Not what I was getting at, not to mention, the amount of stuff that gets posted is (pretty) small.
etc. But once access info goes public, it becomes useless.
Of course. Like I said, the networks are owned by the government. Temporary glitches in security don't mean much, if anything.
Oh, and let me know when the nsa really gets 'hacked' as opposed as having one employee betray them.
yet more pro-establishment propaganda. sure, the social democrat and statist clown garvey is going to 'hold accountable' his masters by voting and 'encrypting' his mail...
Has anyone made a Juan markov chain yet? #rofljuan -- Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July Learn more at indie.bio and follow along! Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 08/11/2015 01:54 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
Has anyone made a Juan markov chain yet? #rofljuan
Yep. Can't tell the difference. - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS] PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ "We are arming the chicken cannon!" --Adam Savage -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVynyWAAoJED1np1pUQ8RkXscP+wU9UIe7S5XPC7HDCE+ry50z dMhLXEBzUyGaVpZRUoo6iayNhAVzxjQZQHxZCH0y7zQzayGQbjhF+mi9peBJcVx9 gT0f9v8jm1vR6j+zV+mBIsi3t7dXTTmq/Fwx5DIOfz2YAdmjRk8JDZK6bVdxWVS/ DL5glNc0pl84L56naXt19jEOPS5VCu+oUPoXodcSrSduU5fchYIkU07RbULxehdE GGiY0iEK4H7fkaw9I5DSyeDgFtZtz0YTZ+tjNPJQSqR3f+kaCwxLQKe7x5sD0BKF 4S3RFHMk4vUbkOv2J+GEFMeKbMpHrOXLw9bOgvgo7/p+xbl6Ndb1IZT2tl+af+8w +CxFiN0LuY0fLz8RU32LJ/f2JSVUhwccIYJFw34CbKWnAtWKaAuxlSxO+IUo/7Oc GwhFkjEvhK+m+KOtOYfd/NcEJFLcJTz1e1Tk+/+V5Z8/+115hhTezUGRJ11W4WT8 2q1KwxeyXODofkdbj4Ftpv3ztDwTeFoc7Zoohm+dMncJmgJ4p8cp4o/7dbYeMEoN 9p79AbxckUbN29DDdx9zbVH0tPoP2Fns95/JGvA4VT998x5GDZD7yPTCq1+3gvJg TO0SSvizb1STUyzWiX0T8kacU5j8/4NqKICBpU4SaQPgrcQ49EPg5ta4PuOv48Q3 +rN0DA1w5NhXA5GtqH8G =p2Yy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 15:52:06 The Doctor pisze:
On 08/11/2015 01:54 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
Has anyone made a Juan markov chain yet? #rofljuan
Yep. Can't tell the difference.
"Juan Markov, the first automated revolutionary of the Internet age" -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
fuck eff On Aug 11, 2015 11:16 PM, "Cathal Garvey" <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
Forcing those in power *not* to look back at us, and granting ourselves greater ability to visualise power's actions, are not mutually exclusive goals. We should be doing both, including methods to hide ourselves and to better monitor and hold accountable those in power.
Of course, those monitoring are often punished, so necessarily the ability to monitor *and* hide go hand in hand.
In other words I reckon the approach of fighting mass surveillance (including acknowledging that corporations are NOT people and their surveillance is qualitatively different from my private CCTV system) and pushing for greater transparency, in tandem with mass-crypto and ubiquitous sousveillance, is exactly the right thing to do..and it's more or less what I think we're doing already globally with the cypherpunk, pirate party, and eff-ist movements.
On 11/08/15 20:49, Sean Lynch wrote:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem? We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us.
Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
-- Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July Learn more at indie.bio and follow along! Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey
Dnia wtorek, 11 sierpnia 2015 19:49:45 Sean Lynch pisze:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem?
One key thing is that citizens have *rights*, public officials have *duties*. Talking about "transparency" in the context of a private person is misguided; just as talking about "privacy" in the context of public official carrying out their duties: http://rys.io/en/27 At the same time we should push for privacy for private citizens, and transparency and accountability for public officials (in the context of their duties). -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On 08/11/2015 12:49 PM, Sean Lynch wrote:
So what do people think of David Brin's "transparent society" approach to this problem? We can't completely stop ourselves from being watched, but we can make use of all this technology ourselves. Police have ALPRs and dashcams and bodycams, but by and large they have actually resisted expansions of their own surveillance because they want the flexibility to be able to make up justifications after the fact. Phone cams have for the most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
Even Snowden's leaks were enabled by very similar technologies to what the NSA deploys against us.
Is there any reason to believe that, overall, technology will benefit governments more than it does individuals?
The government gets 'first shot' at it because they finance and 'oversee' the development of the technology. They have the advantage. In the case of bodycams on cops, one state is already making it more difficult for defense lawyers to use the footage, and in the long run the states MAY start developng laws that limit civilians from photo or video documenting police 'activities' because 'the police are documenting themselves' and you, PROLE, are interfering with their operations.
"They've got the guns but we've got the numbers. Gonna win, gonna take it over c'mon!" -Jim Morrison, Five to One
RR
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:49:45 -0700, Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
This is not directed at you personally, but I wish people would stop using the fucking Orwellian double-speak term 'police abuse' in place of the more accurate 'police crime'. What we have is a certain class of people committing serious CRIMES, not 'abuse'. These crimes includes murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, assault, vehicular assault, battery, false arrest, perjury, etc, all while wearing special costumes called 'uniforms' and getting a paycheck from some government agency. As far as I'm concerned, using the term 'police abuse' is a neuro-linguistic programming tactic designed to make people subconsciously downplay the seriousness of these crimes.
forgot fascist mass incarceration and this is directed at you personally as i hold people 'accountable' for their actions and mindsets yay love that 'government abuse '.... lulz could it be 'crime by the government' but but that dont happen nah never social engineering is profound in language use and terms are handed to the white people like soft boiled eggs so soft and the parasite slips into the mouth so softly by soft nice voices that are never - no never - angry whats there ever to be angry about ... no reason to ever raise your voice even a tiny bit On Aug 12, 2015 8:41 AM, "Seth" <list@sysfu.com> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:49:45 -0700, Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
This is not directed at you personally, but I wish people would stop using the fucking Orwellian double-speak term 'police abuse' in place of the more accurate 'police crime'.
What we have is a certain class of people committing serious CRIMES, not 'abuse'. These crimes includes murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, assault, vehicular assault, battery, false arrest, perjury, etc, all while wearing special costumes called 'uniforms' and getting a paycheck from some government agency.
As far as I'm concerned, using the term 'police abuse' is a neuro-linguistic programming tactic designed to make people subconsciously downplay the seriousness of these crimes.
On August 11, 2015 11:47:46 PM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote yet more bullshit:
forgot fascist mass incarceration and this is directed at you personally as i hold people 'accountable' for their actions and mindsets
You should hold yourself accountable for your inflammatory and divisive "actions and mindsets" as well. Generally I ignore your posts and stay out of your misdirected, hot air bleat-fests. But I'm really tired of dealing with this type of self-aggrandizing, rude vitriol that detracts from an otherwise valid point, thereby alienating even your best allies. Like the so-called "black lives matter" attention-whores who completely disrupted a Bernie Sanders rally in my city this weekend. It makes no damn sense to alienate the people most aligned with their cause and then spew racist language (as you do, as well), thereby harming any cause unfortunate enough to have itself associated with such behavior. There is righteous anger tempered by wisdom, e.g. Dr Cornell West. He doesn't mince words and he absolutely holds people accountable while understanding that allies come in all colors and from various walks of life. Anger is valid: being intentionally racist and rude is not. /rant on OT bullshit. -S
yay love that 'government abuse '.... lulz could it be 'crime by the government' but but that dont happen nah never
social engineering is profound in language use and terms are handed to the white people like soft boiled eggs so soft and the parasite slips into the mouth so softly by soft nice voices that are never - no never - angry
whats there ever to be angry about ... no reason to ever raise your voice even a tiny bit On Aug 12, 2015 8:41 AM, "Seth" <list@sysfu.com> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:49:45 -0700, Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
This is not directed at you personally, but I wish people would stop using the fucking Orwellian double-speak term 'police abuse' in place of the more accurate 'police crime'.
What we have is a certain class of people committing serious CRIMES, not 'abuse'. These crimes includes murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, assault, vehicular assault, battery, false arrest, perjury, etc, all while wearing special costumes called 'uniforms' and getting a paycheck from some government agency.
As far as I'm concerned, using the term 'police abuse' is a neuro-linguistic programming tactic designed to make people subconsciously downplay the seriousness of these crimes.
sheelly you mad? shelly you tired? - then go to sleep shelleeeyy does not know why there are provocateurs cause didnt analyze mankind activities cause tired? white people are lazy so cornel west is a fucking hierarchical fuck academic making bank off his peoples struggle hangin out with tavis smiley on tv while the people on the ground live in food deserts prove bernie is all about the love of the blackness i have proof he is also in love with zion ... you love the zion too? enjoy to lie to yourself what should the 'attention whores' like me be doing ... be white softies with parasites that have us smile all the time - as parasites are like a mind numbing drug - and lie to ourselves that everything is fine ... our people are in prison our people are dead but fucking smile u shld lay out a plan for all of us then we can just do what you say cause you know better fuck your white ass constructs they are completely fake = mass white hysterical fuck all pooor poor bernie his privilage is diminished by a microdot bernie could hand the mic happily to the less fortunate then maybe he wouldnt be trolled - he could feel honored by the fact that people see him as at least remotely accessible i originally posted on here about iris scans being perpetrated on the people ... do you even know anything about that at all ? ...fuck no but somehow you know everything about activists On Aug 12, 2015 3:27 PM, "Shelley" <shelley@misanthropia.org> wrote:
On August 11, 2015 11:47:46 PM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote yet more bullshit:
forgot fascist mass incarceration and this is directed at you personally as
i hold people 'accountable' for their actions and mindsets
You should hold yourself accountable for your inflammatory and divisive "actions and mindsets" as well.
Generally I ignore your posts and stay out of your misdirected, hot air bleat-fests. But I'm really tired of dealing with this type of self-aggrandizing, rude vitriol that detracts from an otherwise valid point, thereby alienating even your best allies. Like the so-called "black lives matter" attention-whores who completely disrupted a Bernie Sanders rally in my city this weekend. It makes no damn sense to alienate the people most aligned with their cause and then spew racist language (as you do, as well), thereby harming any cause unfortunate enough to have itself associated with such behavior.
There is righteous anger tempered by wisdom, e.g. Dr Cornell West. He doesn't mince words and he absolutely holds people accountable while understanding that allies come in all colors and from various walks of life. Anger is valid: being intentionally racist and rude is not.
/rant on OT bullshit.
-S
yay love that 'government abuse '.... lulz could it be 'crime by the government' but but that dont happen nah never
social engineering is profound in language use and terms are handed to the white people like soft boiled eggs so soft and the parasite slips into the mouth so softly by soft nice voices that are never - no never - angry
whats there ever to be angry about ... no reason to ever raise your voice even a tiny bit On Aug 12, 2015 8:41 AM, "Seth" <list@sysfu.com> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:49:45 -0700, Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
This is not directed at you personally, but I wish people would stop using the fucking Orwellian double-speak term 'police abuse' in place of the more accurate 'police crime'.
What we have is a certain class of people committing serious CRIMES, not 'abuse'. These crimes includes murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, assault, vehicular assault, battery, false arrest, perjury, etc, all while wearing special costumes called 'uniforms' and getting a paycheck from some government agency.
As far as I'm concerned, using the term 'police abuse' is a neuro-linguistic programming tactic designed to make people subconsciously downplay the seriousness of these crimes.
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:49 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
white people are lazy
fuck your white ass constructs they are completely fake = mass white hysterical fuck all
Racism in general is both dumb and reprehensible. Being racist against your own race - I don't know you, but you sure do *look* like a pale blonde white devil - goes beyond mere stupidity into some level of willful idiocy. Or perhaps self-parody.
pooor poor bernie his privilage is diminished by a microdot
Never yet met a person who attacked others for their "privilege" who wasn't themselves from a highly privileged background. Score: disruptive hysterics 2, reasoned discussion 0 Yours Sincerely, Whitey W. Whiteman III
i am french yes and some irish and NATIVE AMERICAN which means i super dont like white fuckers that killed my people en mass and did a lot of other horrible things to them in the name of capitalism so i am black foot and cherokee and my character seems to align more with that part of my dna a lot of the time ... yes sometimes i am a dumb white fuck but thats the nature of the beast but mostly i behave not like a white person that smiles and nods and stays silent out of fear... i cant exist that way... i am just a 'wild indian' some other racists have said... they were white people of course i am very racist against white empirical capitalist and while i know native americans that suck - other races have people that suck of course but white people are really oppressive in my mind so i call them out for it some people have told me it is racist to claim my heritage of being native american ... a cop in berlin said 'hile hitler' to me when i told him i was native american but i guess i should be grateful he actually believed i was native american - some people dont i really despise zion because of their fascism and mass murder based on race and dont understand that other people love zion - do you love zion? i know me engaging the frame of racism is fucked up but it is so beyond any comprehension that whites have so much and others have so little maybe we can work together to figure out wording that points out that they are white without it being racists??? cause ya know they are like white so... no i guess it doesnt work... should we ignore their oppressive race? how... they are all over everything all the time nodding smiling acting calm even in the face of mass murder your little axiom about privilege wouldnt hold up in an ethical court ... wow i will tell my mother someone said i am from a privileged background she will rofl for days... i am privileged... isnt everyone from the great state of imperialist fuckers known as the us of fucking a beyond privileged compared to the people that dont have potable water on the planet and the people that dont have enough food on the planet and the people that are the others that dont have the right to even learn to read yes i am privileged i am literate On Aug 13, 2015 9:31 AM, "Jason McVetta" <jason.mcvetta@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:49 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
white people are lazy
fuck your white ass constructs they are completely fake = mass white hysterical fuck all
Racism in general is both dumb and reprehensible. Being racist against your own race - I don't know you, but you sure do *look* like a pale blonde white devil - goes beyond mere stupidity into some level of willful idiocy. Or perhaps self-parody.
pooor poor bernie his privilage is diminished by a microdot
Never yet met a person who attacked others for their "privilege" who wasn't themselves from a highly privileged background.
Score: disruptive hysterics 2, reasoned discussion 0
Yours Sincerely,
Whitey W. Whiteman III
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
some irish and NATIVE AMERICAN
Me too. Welcome to the club!
which means i super dont like white fuckers
Racist! Or neurotic self-hater???
yes sometimes i am a dumb [...] fuck
Just sometimes?
i am very racist
Well hey, at least you are open about it. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to fixing it...
i really despise zion because of their fascism and mass murder based on race and dont understand that other people love zion - do you love zion?
Are you talking about an historical group or place? Or do you mean Jews in general? The state of Israel? I usually dislike the public policy of Israel. But all the Jews I've personally met have been nice to me, and I've gotten along well with them. Draw your own conclusions. engaging the frame of racism is fucked
Sure is!
your little axiom about privilege wouldnt hold up in an ethical court ...
Thank the gods I'm not a rule-of-lawyers judicialist. :)
isnt everyone from the great state of imperialist fuckers known as the us of fucking a beyond privileged compared to the people that dont have potable water on the planet
I'm currently living somewhere one can't safely drink the tap water. So I agree, massive ongoing public investment in water infrastructure sure is a nice thing! But most people on the planet do have potable water to drink, tho perhaps not as plentifully as in America. Not that many people worldwide are literally dying of thirst.
and the people that dont have enough food on the planet and the people that are the others that dont have the right to even learn to read
Y'all gotta gets outta New Jack City once in a while. That part of America ya call "the flyover" is chock full o' people with horrific malnutrition caused by the toxic industrial food system. yes i am privileged i am literate
Good news: you may be overestimating your own privilege...
define racism then cause i dont think we have the same definition really also maybe we dont have the same definition of trolling just saying someone is a race and is fucked up with power based on their racial privilege is not racism its like saying someones race and then being called a racist because you categorized someone within their race have we been socially engineered as racist and genderist and specieist and ageist and mentally or physically challengedists - oh yes and we need to build new frames out of it but you saying i am white and racist against my "own" people because i hate the culture doesnt do that - if you really want to do something about it have a really long think about designing new frames... raise consciousness - make new words develop your own mind On Aug 13, 2015 11:00 AM, "Jason McVetta" <jason.mcvetta@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
some irish and NATIVE AMERICAN
Me too. Welcome to the club!
which tribe? not a club
which means i super dont like white fuckers
Racist!
Or neurotic self-hater???
are you being racist by deciding my identity for me ?... i dont identify as white ... i dont act white ... its like i am a tansgender person that identifies as a woman and you are telling me i am just a man and i have to just face that ... you dont get to decide for me what i identify with its really white of you to think you get to decide for me btw
yes sometimes i am a dumb [...] fuck
Just sometimes?
i am very racist
Well hey, at least you are open about it. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to fixing it...
i really despise zion because of their fascism and mass murder based on
race and dont understand that other people love zion - do you love zion?
Are you talking about an historical group or place? Or do you mean Jews in general? The state of Israel?
I usually dislike the public policy of Israel. But all the Jews I've
power bullshit ... very white capitalist behavior personally met have been nice to me, and I've gotten along well with them. Draw your own conclusions. conclusion - you dont know anything about zion
engaging the frame of racism is fucked
Sure is!
your little axiom about privilege wouldnt hold up in an ethical court ...
Thank the gods I'm not a rule-of-lawyers judicialist. :)
umn fuck gods please read nietzsche - wrote in the 1800's ethics has nothing to do with law ... guess you havent noticed
isnt everyone from the great state of imperialist fuckers known as the
us of fucking a beyond privileged compared to the people that dont have potable water on the planet
I'm currently living somewhere one can't safely drink the tap water. So
I agree, massive ongoing public investment in water infrastructure sure is a nice thing! But most people on the planet do have potable water to drink, tho perhaps not as plentifully as in America. Not that many people worldwide are literally dying of thirst. umn talking people that dont have a tap to have fucking water in so... but here i cannot drink the tap water maybe more common than you know
and the people that dont have enough food on the planet and the people
that are the others that dont have the right to even learn to read
Y'all gotta gets outta New Jack City once in a while. That part of
America ya call "the flyover" is chock full o' people with horrific malnutrition caused by the toxic industrial food system. you have no idea where i am on the planet
yes i am privileged i am literate
Good news: you may be overestimating your own privilege...
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
are you being racist by deciding my identity for me ?... i dont identify as white ... i dont act white ... its like i am a tansgender person that identifies as a woman and you are telling me i am just a man and i have to just face that ... you dont get to decide for me what i identify with
its really white of you to think you get to decide for me btw
PS: I personally identify as His Imperial and Royal Majesty Napoleon I, By the Grace of God and the Constitutions of the Empire, Emperor of the French, King of Italy, Protector of the Confederation of the Rhine, Mediator of the Helvetic Confederation. If you don't wholeheartedly agree, endorse, and act in accordance with my self-proclaimed identity - then HOW DARE YOU, you privileged white devil Capitalist dog, try to decide my identity for me!
From: Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta@gmail.com>
PS: I personally identify as His Imperial and Royal Majesty Napoleon I, By the Grace of God and the Constitutions of the Empire, Emperor of >the French, King of Italy, Protector of the Confederation of the Rhine, Mediator of the Helvetic Confederation. I identify as Napoleon XIV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOx2I6DgqXY Jim Bell
blah blah blah racist blah blah blah
Ah, leveling a charge of racism, the gift that keeps on giving. In today's episode, one Tara McPherson asserts that UNIX is racist, Why Are the Digital Humanities So White? http://dhdebates.gc.cuny.edu/debates/text/29 as she argues repeatedly that there must be a connection between the modularity of UNIX and the compartmentalization of race within American culture. Ergo, all ya'll who would have refused to wear cotton clothing in 1855 must now stop using UNIX variants. Have a nice day. --dan
On 13/08/15 08:58, Jason McVetta wrote:
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com <mailto:carimachet@gmail.com>> wrote:
some irish and NATIVE AMERICAN
Me too. Welcome to the club!
This all makes it sound like the Irish bit is above racism, a privileged "white person" class that's never had any negative discrimination. Back in the golden days of the British Empire there were academic discussions on how the Irish constituted a different sub-species of lesser humanity. Racism hasn't always been about skin colour, and still isn't. Irish might have it somewhat easier today (but prejudices remain), but racism of all kinds, including anti-"white" (what the fuck is "White"? What the fuck is "Black"?), is just more of the same stupidity. Newsflash; the genetic diversity within any given "racial" population you choose is *far* greater than the miniscule genetic differences that define the characteristics we call "race". There is no such thing as "race" except that which we create in our monkey heads. -- Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July Learn more at indie.bio and follow along! Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey
On Aug 13, 2015 17:59, "Cathal Garvey" <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
This all makes it sound like the Irish bit is above racism, a privileged
"white person" class that's never had any negative discrimination. When you see photos of NO IRISH NEED APPLY signs in history class, and you have an Irish surname, it's difficult not to feel why racism is abhorrent.
Those signs were abundant in Australia a few years back after the crash.. On 13/08/15 23:41, Jason McVetta wrote:
On Aug 13, 2015 17:59, "Cathal Garvey" <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me <mailto:cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me>> wrote:
This all makes it sound like the Irish bit is above racism, a
privileged "white person" class that's never had any negative discrimination.
When you see photos of
NO IRISH NEED APPLY
signs in history class, and you have an Irish surname, it's difficult not to feel why racism is abhorrent.
-- Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July Learn more at indie.bio and follow along! Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey
Can these various subthreads be ended or somehow brought back full circle to cpunkery, thanks.
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 05:41:51 +0700 Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 13, 2015 17:59, "Cathal Garvey" <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
This all makes it sound like the Irish bit is above racism, a privileged
"white person" class that's never had any negative discrimination.
When you see photos of
NO IRISH NEED APPLY
signs in history class, and you have an Irish surname, it's difficult not to feel why racism is abhorrent.
so 'irish' is a 'race'?
Dnia czwartek, 13 sierpnia 2015 20:13:14 Juan pisze:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 05:41:51 +0700
Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 13, 2015 17:59, "Cathal Garvey" <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me>
wrote:
This all makes it sound like the Irish bit is above racism, a privileged
"white person" class that's never had any negative discrimination.
When you see photos of
NO IRISH NEED APPLY
signs in history class, and you have an Irish surname, it's difficult not to feel why racism is abhorrent.
so 'irish' is a 'race'?
As everything, it's a certain condition, I guess. *If* we can call it a "race", that would mean it's a "race condition". -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
Dnia piątek, 14 sierpnia 2015 03:25:07 Juan pisze:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 03:15:41 +0200
rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
so 'irish' is a 'race'?
As everything, it's a certain condition, I guess. *If* we can call it a "race", that would mean it's a "race condition".
now, that's a nerdy joke...
I know this might be hard to grok for you, and I apologize. I will try next time to provide some explanation for the non-nerds among us. -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:17:09 +0200 rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia piątek, 14 sierpnia 2015 03:25:07 Juan pisze:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 03:15:41 +0200
rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
so 'irish' is a 'race'?
As everything, it's a certain condition, I guess. *If* we can call it a "race", that would mean it's a "race condition".
now, that's a nerdy joke...
I know this might be hard to grok for you, and I apologize.
but it isn't.
I will try next time to provide some explanation for the non-nerds among us.
I don't need any explanation, fucktard. And actually there isn't any. You just made a pun with a bit of jargon probably to try to show off your supposed 'technical' 'knowledge'.
Dnia piątek, 14 sierpnia 2015 16:51:10 Juan pisze:
now, that's a nerdy joke...
I know this might be hard to grok for you, and I apologize.
but it isn't.
Happy to hear that! It does seem to imply you're as much a nerd as me, though. I admire your courage to admit that much! Remember, however, that it's okay to ask if you need help with understanding something!
I will try next time to provide some explanation for the non-nerds among us.
I don't need any explanation, fucktard.
You seem upset. Why? Was it something I said? I hope we can still be best of friends!
And actually there isn't any. You just made a pun with a bit of jargon probably to try to show off your supposed 'technical' 'knowledge'.
You got me there! That's actually a very honest and accurate description of what I did, no question about it. I congratulate you on your perspicacity! Again, I can only assume you based your pertinent observation on your own experience and self-knowledge. Birds of feather, are we not? If you need explanation of the word "perspicacity", do tell, though. I would really rather hate it if it were to become a source of misunderstanding between us brotherly souls. I'm sure we can both learn a lot from each other, our current similitude notwithstanding. -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 01:45:01 +0200 rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
Dnia piątek, 14 sierpnia 2015 16:51:10 Juan pisze:
now, that's a nerdy joke...
I know this might be hard to grok for you, and I apologize.
but it isn't.
Happy to hear that! It does seem to imply you're as much a nerd as me, though. I admire your courage to admit that much!
No it doesn't. The ability to recognize a nerdy comment doesn't necessarily imply nerdiness on the part of the reader. Anyway, I'm done with the silly games, at least for today.
Remember, however, that it's okay to ask if you need help with understanding something!
Thank you for your understanding...
I will try next time to provide some explanation for the non-nerds among us.
I don't need any explanation, fucktard.
You seem upset. Why? Was it something I said? I hope we can still be best of friends!
And actually there isn't any. You just made a pun with a bit of jargon probably to try to show off your supposed 'technical' 'knowledge'.
You got me there! That's actually a very honest and accurate description of what I did, no question about it. I congratulate you on your perspicacity! Again, I can only assume you based your pertinent observation on your own experience and self-knowledge. Birds of feather, are we not?
If you need explanation of the word "perspicacity", do tell, though. I would really rather hate it if it were to become a source of misunderstanding between us brotherly souls. I'm sure we can both learn a lot from each other, our current similitude notwithstanding.
Take care Rysiek.
i knew someone would bring up the racism of the irish it still is a super horror > aaargghhh is there a race i can call pirate? maybe the turks... they were the barbary pirates i think ...ottomans yes it is culture but it is also my dna ... my computer is not a microsoft computer and that is just that... it might have little gui's of microsoft but NO not microsoft ...i am racist against microsoft ...because native american or indigenous were slaughtered in mass in more ways than just their bodies and they still are and we have political prisoners and yes we say 'we' when we are together and some tribes are deemed with this kind of characteristic others not etc language structures are similar though ... it is very different to be indigenous and just denial of indigenousness is a defacement its part of the horror as the whites that took the native american babies away from their families wanting to erase the native american in them assimilation so how can we have our dna respected and not be racists ? so bringing it back to all things cypher is it possible to get these turkish docs unredacted - have they made it illegal to unredact shit - i think they have - i think i read it somewhere ? wheres hitler been lately? o am i being racist against germans? lets make u a new word ..how bout 'culturist' ... 'you are a culturist' ... no that doesnt sound right docs are all about the terrorist kurds you know - a race of people - and we are fucked by laura poitras again what fucking explanation can she have for these massive redactions turkey just wants everyone to be turks cathal the keyword option wasnt given to the turks then... i wonder if they have it now? maybe they hacked the american code and made it possible if the fuckers wouldnt give it to them http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/documents-show-nsa-and-gchq-spied-... On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me
wrote:
On 13/08/15 08:58, Jason McVetta wrote:
On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com <mailto:carimachet@gmail.com>> wrote:
some irish and NATIVE AMERICAN
Me too. Welcome to the club!
This all makes it sound like the Irish bit is above racism, a privileged "white person" class that's never had any negative discrimination.
Back in the golden days of the British Empire there were academic discussions on how the Irish constituted a different sub-species of lesser humanity. Racism hasn't always been about skin colour, and still isn't.
Irish might have it somewhat easier today (but prejudices remain), but racism of all kinds, including anti-"white" (what the fuck is "White"? What the fuck is "Black"?), is just more of the same stupidity.
Newsflash; the genetic diversity within any given "racial" population you choose is *far* greater than the miniscule genetic differences that define the characteristics we call "race". There is no such thing as "race" except that which we create in our monkey heads.
-- Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July Learn more at indie.bio and follow along! Twitter: @onetruecathal Phone: +353876363185 miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM peerio.com: cathalgarvey
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
a true cypherpunk 'final solution' by shelly cypherpunk identity = shelly clones only that cant debate her/them On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Shelley <shelley@misanthropia.org> wrote:
mode #cypherpunks +b ~q: carimachet@gmail.com
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
On August 13, 2015 10:24:50 PM Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
Shelley <shelley@misanthropia.org> writes:
mode #cypherpunks +b ~q: carimachet@gmail.com
For procmail users, I've found that:
:0 * ^From: *carimachet /dev/null
:0 B * Cari Machet /dev/null
gets rid of most of it.
Peter.
Yes, or I could add it to my sieve script. Honestly, I was just trying to get us back on track in a silly way. Someone asked that we get back to cypherpunk topics; I thought it was a mild & funny hint for her to do so. -S
getting us back on track subject wise ... now that is a joke i dont think being a fascist has anything to do with cypherpunks the desire to ban someone is not the structure of this space FOR REASONS it is open for structural reasons - philosophical reasons... ya know LOGIC if the desire to ban people is inside you then you are engaging fascism when some people will die for others freedom its totally repulsive that you would even desire to ban someone from cypherpunks list somewhere inside you shelley you know this ... please engage in self critique - if i am so monstrous why read the words i write ? just disengage - take responsibility and disengage On Aug 14, 2015 9:38 AM, "Shelley" <shelley@misanthropia.org> wrote:
On August 13, 2015 10:24:50 PM Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
Shelley <shelley@misanthropia.org> writes:
mode #cypherpunks +b ~q: carimachet@gmail.com
For procmail users, I've found that:
:0 * ^From: *carimachet /dev/null
:0 B * Cari Machet /dev/null
gets rid of most of it.
Peter.
Yes, or I could add it to my sieve script. Honestly, I was just trying to get us back on track in a silly way. Someone asked that we get back to cypherpunk topics; I thought it was a mild & funny hint for her to do so.
-S
You've never had to give someone some quiet time in a channel before? It was a silence ban, not a total ban. Not only did you not catch the joke, you didn't take the hint. So, here you go. Your very own thread in Cari Machet land, where all "white" people are lazy (whatever "white" is), fascist and racist (I hope you're including yourself.) -S ---------- On August 14, 2015 5:47:11 PM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
getting us back on track subject wise ... now that is a joke
i dont think being a fascist has anything to do with cypherpunks
the desire to ban someone is not the structure of this space FOR REASONS it is open for structural reasons - philosophical reasons... ya know LOGIC
if the desire to ban people is inside you then you are engaging fascism
when some people will die for others freedom its totally repulsive that you would even desire to ban someone from cypherpunks list
somewhere inside you shelley you know this ... please engage in self critique - if i am so monstrous why read the words i write ? just disengage - take responsibility and disengage On Aug 14, 2015 9:38 AM, "Shelley" <shelley@misanthropia.org> wrote:
On August 13, 2015 10:24:50 PM Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
Shelley <shelley@misanthropia.org> writes:
mode #cypherpunks +b ~q: carimachet@gmail.com
For procmail users, I've found that:
:0 * ^From: *carimachet /dev/null
:0 B * Cari Machet /dev/null
gets rid of most of it.
Peter.
Yes, or I could add it to my sieve script. Honestly, I was just trying to get us back on track in a silly way. Someone asked that we get back to cypherpunk topics; I thought it was a mild & funny hint for her to do so.
-S
i am not going to follow you around like a good little white maggot shelley just what are you getting out of feeding the 'attention seeking' monster? fyi many threads i have had with my name in it on here made by people like you to the point of banality its not about me ... why do you need to try to make it about me????? right shelley there is no white person no white culture no empire built by whites no western european and american people that mass murdered enslaved have stolen resources ...still do the iraqi people japanese vietnamese loa panamanian on and on were not mass murdered by western european and american people ... they didnt murder every buffalo they could see so that my people would starve and pile the dead buffullo up into hills and take selfies with the corpses... white people is a construct of the real fascist racists > the people of color of which i am not i am not native american in any way in my dreams i am but i am a fanatical fuck ... people of other cultures are not assimilated by the western mickey mouse culture children are not molested by white men predominantly mass shootings in the us are not carried out by white men ever there is no box anywhere on any form that says check this box if you are 'white' judges in the us are not predominantly from western european dissent ...capitalism is not fascist and you are not part of the problem I was trolling the guy which you desire to make into something it is not But listen - or dont - if you are under the darkness of thought that cornell west is anyones saviour then you know nothing about capitalism or the history of the struggle for instance mlk took his babies and lived in chicago now you may know nothing of chicago which speaks volumes in and of itself but mlk was tackling poverty which you also probably know nothing about - i see no action by the academic west (ahha lol) that even pretends to be at that level Also leaders are now being understood as beyond problematic but you have no working knowledge of these matters yet pretend you are somehow smart in them - node based structure is the preferred model because they murder leaders ... now who is they? there is no they - white people have no dna tracers like me with my delusional native american dna scam there are no constructs in society its just an uncategorized blob & no person has been assimilated ever the dna tracers of whites have no information in them there is no build there is no planet its all a fantasy that you dont have to take responsibility for please tell me all seeing eye shelley what words should i use to describe and catagorize an entire sector of society global society that are presently and historically cannibals? especially seeing how they dont want to be categorized at all - they even eat categories when it doesnt reflect what they want it to white people have harness the imaginations of so many that people dont want to engage the identity of their ancestors asking people what their dna chain has in it if they are poc is a no no because it is 'racist' therefore no one any longer has a race ... how convenient its so much easier to assimilate the other if it is deluded into thinking it is not 'other' living in berlin i came to know your kind 'the climate deniers' there are some germans that can barely see and some that face the horror - whats the difference ? it doesnt matter their consciousness ? your consciousness doesnt matter ? they dont walk around saying what is german EVER they dont say there is no german or germany they fucking face the schiesse which makes a father fucking difference even though they themselves have been devoured by capitalism of the super fascist kind that you call out black lives matter people is repulsive and engages an unspeakable horror misanthrope indeed - life form that hates life please inform your self that there is serious shit you do not know and you are a limited interface information wants you to be free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people stuff white people do: white quotation of the week (bell hooks) <http://t.sidekickopen17.com/e1t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7lC8dDMPbW2n0x6l2B9nMJW7t5XZs1qg55-N5w02yWRbBJdW8q-c7s56dVZzf3drS6C02?t=http%3A%2F%2Fstuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F01%2Fwhite-quotation-of-week-bell-hooks.html&si=5459291358625792&pi=5b10fc4b-af57-4216-8870-f55e189fc212> stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/.../white-quotation-of-week-bell-hooks... <http://t.sidekickopen17.com/e1t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7lC8dDMPbW2n0x6l2B9nMJW7t5XZs1qg55-N5w02yWRbBJdW8q-c7s56dVZzf3drS6C02?t=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.tr%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dbell%2Bhooks%2Bon%2Bwhite%2Bdenial%2Bof%2Brace%26oq%3Dbell%2Bhooks%2Bon%2Bwhite%2Bdenial%2Bof%2Brace%26aqs%3Dchrome..69i57.12437j0j7%26sourceid%3Dchrome%26es_sm%3D91%26ie%3DUTF-8%23&si=5459291358625792&pi=5b10fc4b-af57-4216-8870-f55e189fc212> Jan 29, 2009 - bell hooks, a widely published cultural critic, educational theorist and professor of English, is renowned for her work on the interlocking, hierarchical dynamics of race, class, .... The beauty of privilege is not having to notice it. https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=white+people+denial+of+the+white+race&oq=white+people+denial+of+the+white+race&aqs=chrome..69i57.14048j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8 http://culturalstudies.ucsc.edu/PUBS/Inscriptions/vol_5/bellhooks.html yoko ono: 'I did about five interviews yesterday because the documentary Imagine is opening in Europe.... Anyway, I woke up this morning with this kind of pain that I had never realized before. I said to myself, How dare they! Every time I have an interview I am asked this question: "The world hated you. You've been called the Dragon Lady for the past twenty years. How do you feel about it? Why do you think that happened?" You know what that is like? It's like somebody battering a woman and then saying, "All of us battered you, but why do you think we did it?" I'm the one responsible for telling them why I was battered? Well let them tell me. They're the ones who did it. The other side of it was Asian-bashing--it was as simple as that.' +++++++++++++++++++++++ that you shelley think you can really informedly speak on critique or otherwise have serious discourse on black do's and donts in radicalised activism is the essence of why they struggle On Aug 15, 2015 4:14 AM, "Shelley" <shelley@misanthropia.org> wrote:
You've never had to give someone some quiet time in a channel before? It was a silence ban, not a total ban. Not only did you not catch the joke, you didn't take the hint.
So, here you go. Your very own thread in Cari Machet land, where all "white" people are lazy (whatever "white" is), fascist and racist (I hope you're including yourself.)
-S
---------- On August 14, 2015 5:47:11 PM Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
getting us back on track subject wise ... now that is a joke
i dont think being a fascist has anything to do with cypherpunks
the desire to ban someone is not the structure of this space FOR REASONS it is open for structural reasons - philosophical reasons... ya know LOGIC
if the desire to ban people is
On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 3:47 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
getting us back on track subject wise ... now that is a joke
i dont think being a fascist has anything to do with cypherpunks
the desire to ban someone is not the structure of this space FOR REASONS it is open for structural reasons - philosophical reasons... ya know LOGIC
if the desire to ban people is inside you then you are engaging fascism
when some people will die for others freedom its totally repulsive that you would even desire to ban someone from cypherpunks list
somewhere inside you shelley you know this ... please engage in self critique - if i am so monstrous why read the words i write ? just disengage - take responsibility and disengage On Aug 14, 2015 9:38 AM, "Shelley" <shelley@misanthropia.org> wrote:
On August 13, 2015 10:24:50 PM Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
Shelley <shelley@misanthropia.org> writes:
mode #cypherpunks +b ~q: carimachet@gmail.com
For procmail users, I've found that:
:0 * ^From: *carimachet /dev/null
:0 B * Cari Machet /dev/null
gets rid of most of it.
Peter.
Yes, or I could add it to my sieve script. Honestly, I was just trying to get us back on track in a silly way. Someone asked that we get back to cypherpunk topics; I thought it was a mild & funny hint for her to do so.
-S
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:31:53 +0300 Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
i know me engaging the frame of racism is fucked up
Because racism is technically nonsense. There isn't any link between skin color and any other meaningful trait. It's much better to look at things in terms of culture.
if i said i was jewish we would have a different dialogue here i will tell my ancestors you decided they were nothing and i should just ignore them ... they will rofl i am sure On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:11 AM, Razer <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/13/2015 12:31 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
i am french yes and some irish and NATIVE AMERICAN which...
Blood quantum please. EVERY white privileged blonde is an Indian Princess after all.
Are you enrolled?
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 My fingers hurt from deleting all this stuff. No offense to all, but can you start a new thread on "Racism and how butthurt we all feel?" For this is totally OT from "privacy advocates resign over facials," imho. IMHO, NCI (No Connotation Intended). On 08/13/2015 03:11 PM, Razer wrote:
On 08/13/2015 12:31 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
i am french yes and some irish and NATIVE AMERICAN which...
Blood quantum please. EVERY white privileged blonde is an Indian Princess after all.
Are you enrolled?
- -- http://abis.io ~ "a protocol concept to enable decentralization and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good" https://keybase.io/odinn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVzT7oAAoJEGxwq/inSG8C5CsIALgLXJlFhs7AQRGxlECF67Gk kYi5XAxEjJiR/YJekh1boMOuoGKwJsB885Saml2hoJhGmyG/EaLFscv2jbtmMpEn wBmOa3PuZSxuDBi2UHAl8SOftUa5/kheE8e15OAaPQMtb6oHIcesUoCR1PEC29wm 6vvWEEotgcbgu5F0r+xmhs1JWbxOOQQFg1Lhxt1U3gLRkULYH8oUnyzUpuZLe/MH De5nii7dCGN2saP7GGm/v8PrBJN8lNAkyElSqmztCs6/INHyc07I8tIaR9hC0BKY lZjeIvONyZfaU68J2yHBV/fwAmCrAJIOKJNzGzZK3vVjhzYK1+ocDhY7zGC2YFE= =Os5d -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Why are you Cc:ing me about this? I used the term "police 'activities'..." NOT "Police abuse". RR Ps. It might be neuro-linguistic, but the government-legitimized criminals (gangs) in costumes with guns ABUSE people. On 08/11/2015 10:38 PM, Seth wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:49:45 -0700, Sean Lynch <seanl@literati.org> wrote:
most part taken that choice away from them. The result seems likely to be less police abuse than at any point since at least the early 20th century in the US.
This is not directed at you personally, but I wish people would stop using the fucking Orwellian double-speak term 'police abuse' in place of the more accurate 'police crime'.
What we have is a certain class of people committing serious CRIMES, not 'abuse'. These crimes includes murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, assault, vehicular assault, battery, false arrest, perjury, etc, all while wearing special costumes called 'uniforms' and getting a paycheck from some government agency.
As far as I'm concerned, using the term 'police abuse' is a neuro-linguistic programming tactic designed to make people subconsciously downplay the seriousness of these crimes.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 1:38 AM, Seth <list@sysfu.com> wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, using the term 'police abuse' is a neuro-linguistic programming tactic designed to make people subconsciously downplay the seriousness of these crimes.
On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 21:28:14 -0700, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/16/privacy-advocates-resign-prote...
Technology industry lobbyists have so thoroughly hijacked the Commerce Department process for developing a voluntary code of conduct for the use of facial recognition technology that nine privacy advocates involved withdrew in protest on Monday.
“At a base minimum, people should be able to walk down a public street without fear that companies they’ve never heard of are tracking their every movement ... Unfortunately, we have been unable to obtain agreement even with that basic, specific premise.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/06/17/1931216/privacy-advocates-leave-in-pr... http://cvdazzle.com/
Ever notice the shiny new door, camera and register systems at Walmart? Wonder if retail is Stingray'ing patrons IMEI's into such databases? See the boxes popping up on roadsides, cameras and antenna arrays on poles and buildings at every intersection? All the pointless info and blood you have to give? In order to simply move and live and talk? For what, exactly, in return? Disgusting. Cypherpunks... when / where will it all end?
This message brought to you by Revelation 13:17 and Iron Maiden! https://youtu.be/rrSiIqCpxB8
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Seth <list@sysfu.com> wrote:
This message brought to you by Revelation 13:17 and Iron Maiden!
Surveillance and datamining are unnatural things for humans to be subjected to, and it has related outcomes such as chilling speech, control of choices, compression of rights, profits at their expense, and so on. There will certainly be more random snaps due to human frustration with the system. Not the best link but you get the point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD5ofrSNDFA
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/health/ct-allstate-patent-data-0618-biz-20150618... Attention tailgaters: Someday a bank or a potential employer considering your loan or your job application might become privy to your tendencies for aggressive driving. Northbrook-based Allstate, which last month floated the idea of one day selling the information it collects from policyholders' connected cars, was issued a patent earlier this month for a driving-behavior database that it said might be useful for health insurers, lenders, credit-rating agencies, marketers and potential employers. Allstate's patent also said the invention has the potential to evaluate drivers' physiological data, including heart rate, blood pressure and electrocardiogram signals, which could be recorded from steering wheel sensors. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/22/controversial-gchq-unit-domest... Throughout this report, JTRIG’s heavy reliance on its use of behavioral science research (such as psychology) is emphasized as critical to its operations. That includes detailed discussions of how to foster “obedience” and “conformity”:...
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