RE: Mixmaster status
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I apologize for being so terse in my first message. This is not a red herring. The organization that has approached me is very pro-privacy and anonymity. I see nothing but good coming from this venture. I will be very active in the development of the commercial version of Mixmaster. Let me be crystal clear. 1) I will not support any version of Mixmaster that is weakened. 2) All future clients will be able to generate the current message format. 3) All future servers will be able to read the current message format. 4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code. While I have not discussed it, I can not imagine that there would not also be a free version of the server code (with source). Without remailers what is the point of the client software? At 8:45 PM 9/14/95, ROBO Mixmaster Remailer wrote:
Flame Remailer <remailer@flame.alias.net> wrote:
Subject: Mixmaster status
There has been an offer to purchase and commercially develop Mixmaster. This will hasten the development of Mixmaster for other platforms (e.g. Dos, Windows Macintosh), and bring significant improvements to the interface, but I will not compromise on the level of security provided by Mixmaster. Free client software will continue to be available.
This could be the big breakthrough for remailers, finally thrusting them out of the hobbyist's closet into the corporate world.
I wonder. Where is the commercial market for remailers? Who has an application for them except hobbyinst? Why would there be a commercial incentive to run a mixmaster server, or even a client?
Could this "offer" be a red herring?
I wondered the same thing myself. It would certainly be a more cost-effective way for the NSA to compromise Mixmaster technology than by brute force.
Consider this scenario ... Mixmaster get's bought by the Acme Crypto Company of Ft. Meade, MD. They "improve" it, and offer a new version. It's even FREE (for non-commerical use)! But their "improvements" make it incompatible with previous versions, and so you have to upgrade. The new "commercial" version comes with no SOURCE CODE, of course...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMFkzR/Pzr81BVjMVAQH6hAf+O+QdTEzNjUh0FYlJEnCakNws4MxPrOt4 miMPaz/aWDOReGb62UPZAEMNXP+hjgy0kTjW4xReTTBAPgtcsInr1Cct6MPr3O/r PGMGmE9z2Fkv3/k7MDG1NiptT2/RwVtmDikIJEQuH5j8ijir28Vvrk9Vs685Qc3j bFz5Q8uRLd57Uk51tQwIiBM6CJ4suQ3WFN++QNTHM9E47J9W8yFBux6ePWPlZOK8 8BnKkhY/auPm85X3MVZhL3y7F6zbFuqPpZrsKpwOOkme8o4l71t2xyhGcZHHxiB7 JLF2As9pNXsKWpYiPZEHTV9hsgxQTHortdhq25DeGyoxhZSrZByP/w== =+O16 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki@obscura.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. Mixmaster, the next generation remailer, is now available! http://obscura.com/~loki/Welcome.html or FTP to obscura.com "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ----------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 01:03:58 -0700 From: loki@obscura.com (Lance Cottrell) Let me be crystal clear. 1) I will not support any version of Mixmaster that is weakened. 2) All future clients will be able to generate the current message format. 3) All future servers will be able to read the current message format. 4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code. And also that Mixmaster(tm) is a trademark of Lance Cottrell, and as long as he owns it, he controls the use of it. If you trust Lance, you can trust the name Mixmaster(tm). While I have not discussed it, I can not imagine that there would not also be a free version of the server code (with source). Without remailers what is the point of the client software? I'm confused here. Isn't every copy of mixmaster potentially a client and/or server? That seems to me to be one of the beautiful aspects of mixmaster -- run a remailer and you greatly increase your own privacy. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.2, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBMFl4eabBSWSDlCdBAQFkOgP+KN3YYk6Wvq7T4V+uihg6u8NVY3iRobMJ LFOrpm5LrG/WGMfpUouUt4/XfItWrEkRobgFLZaZ407tMkdG0tOUXSixmohdzXS9 AzEB6+Rj+KHqKjRiM2YTdUGLxLF2oQLoN05g2Trj3/V1XQrHwLU7zj/H6nJlrz1M FP6A5KCc+EU= =lzQY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- -russ <nelson@crynwr.com> http://www.crynwr.com/~nelson Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | PGP ok 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | America neither a Christian, Potsdam, NY 13676 | Jewish, Islamic, nor atheist (etc&) nation. This is good.
Anonymous writes: # Consider this scenario ... Mixmaster get's bought by the Acme # Crypto Company of Ft. Meade, MD. They "improve" it, and offer a new # version. It's even FREE (for non-commerical use)! But their # "improvements" make it incompatible with previous versions, and so # you have to upgrade. The new "commercial" version comes with no # SOURCE CODE, of course... Lance Cottrell writes:
4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code.
While I have not discussed it, I can not imagine that there would not also be a free version of the server code (with source). Without remailers what is the point of the client software?
Beyond taking Lance on his PGP-signed-word, which I'm strongly inclined to do, I suspect he may not have much legal leeway in this regard. With the caveat that I Am Not A Lawyer, it seems to me that the GNU General Public License (Version 1 from 1989, Mix/GNU.license in the Mixmaster .tar or http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/docs/Gnu_License), which covers all extant distributions of Mixmaster, has some significant implications for any commercial development of Mixmaster. It's applicable to "the Program or any derivative work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another language". The GNU GPL specifies that: 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, and copy and distribute such modifications under the terms of Paragraph 1 above, provided that you also do the following: [...] b) cause the whole of any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains the Program or any part thereof, either with or without modifications, to be licensed at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this General Public License (except that you may choose to grant warranty protection to some or all third parties, at your option). and that: 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a portion or derivative of it, under Paragraph 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Paragraphs 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following: a) accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, [...] or, b) accompany it with a written offer, [...] to give any third party free (except for a nominal charge for the cost of distribution) a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, [...] So it looks to me as though Mixmaster source code will continue to be legally available, no matter what.... Better informed interpretations are enthusiastically solicited. -Futplex <futplex@pseudonym.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:48:14 -0400 (EDT) From: futplex@pseudonym.com (Futplex) Lance Cottrell writes:
4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code.
Beyond taking Lance on his PGP-signed-word, which I'm strongly inclined to do, I suspect he may not have much legal leeway in this regard. There *will* always be a free version of the client with source code, but the proprietary improvements will probably not be merged into the free version. Lance, and only Lance, as copyright holder, has the publish the code under a different copyright. It's the same thing that Phil Z. did with ViacryptPGP. -- -russ <nelson@crynwr.com> http://www.crynwr.com/~nelson Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | PGP ok 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | America neither a Christian, Potsdam, NY 13676 | Jewish, Islamic, nor atheist (etc&) nation. This is good.
participants (3)
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futplex＠pseudonym.com -
loki＠obscura.com -
nelson＠crynwr.com