wireinfo <wireinfo@phoenix.net> writes:
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On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> writes:
Nno one is arugeing that. Both sides in this debait aggry that that is REAL BAD thing. Spam cancelers use an objective rules.
[...]
You're not very bright are you David?
In my humble opinion David is pretty bright. Unfortunately he's misguided about certain things. I think the extreme aversion to censorship (like that displayed by imp and myself) seldom arises in people who haven't themselves been victims of censorship (plug-pulling or forged cancels, not 'censored thro being drowned up by the dissenting opinions" "-)
Let me clarify two things:
1. "Spam cancellers" are not generally news admins.
I think you will have to justerfy this, the top spam cancellers are all news adimns.
Aer nto.
The current top "spam canceller", Rich Bland ("cosmo") is an admin of a tiny little BBS in California - probably fewer users than mine. The previous top "spam canceller" - Rick Buchanan - was just a user, whose actions were condonded by the admins of the several systems he used to forge cancels. (He only had his plug pulled by one ISp I know of.) Most of the people who scream about their "hatred of spam" on news.* are not admins, but fairly recent users who figure that "fighting spam" is a cool thing. Thing is hardly relevant - anyone can easily set up their own site and become its admins. I was just pointing out that it's factually incorrect to use "admins" as a synonym for "anti-spammers". Many admins are pro-free speech.
2. Once a cancel-forger builds a "reputation" as a "spam canceller", s/he often diversifies into "retromodetration"
There is little proof that this is the case. Even the netscum case could have been considered spam.
What the fuck is "the netscum case"?
I think David is referring to the recent case of content-based cancels forged by Chris Lewis for severa articles whose only thing in common was the mention of Chris lewis's Net.Scum page. This is just one of dozens of such examples. Chris Lewis and Dave Barr obth forge cancels for usenet articles that follow up on their articles and quote them, claiming "copyright violations". Interestingly, Dave Barr is one of the moderators of news.admin.net-abuse.announce. When that newsgroup was up for a vote, its charter said (don't know why) that its moderators aren't supposed to issue third party cancels. So much for moderated newsgrou charters. :-)
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Not even forgeries in my name? Not even out of the control spews from fidonet?
Correct.
Ok so if a mailing list gateway @bwalk.dm.com pumps thousands of broken posts into usenet you don't wish them to be removed from usenet?
The motherfucker can remove them himself, send him a note. But after they've already hit our servers and we've already read them it doesn't make much of a difference now does it? We've got to receive repeated blasts of forged cancels ten times the number of the offending posts?
Once the offending articles are part of the spool on toher site, it's pointless for me to issue cancels. Note that both have happened: both I and my wife have been forged numerous times on usenet, and there have been spews from this site. I don't think that trying to remove them from spool is a proper thing to do whether or not my site ogirinated them. I do think it's polite to try to let people know that these articles are forged/obsolete/posted in error and should be ignored. That was the original purpose of the cancel control articles in RFC 1036 - I post a "car for sale" ad, I sell the car, I don't want to get any more replies, I cancel it. Problem is, the cancels in RFC 1036 were unauthenticated - relied on honor, and too many people on Usenet have no honor are aere eager to forge other people's e-mail addresses on their cancels. As I discussed with David in private mail, a "retraction server" that would announce forgeries, spews, etc would be a useful thing.
You're really not very bright are you David?
Just misguided.
Nor if I post a message with your name and email, saying "Chris Lewis the best thing that happened to usenet and I wish to have his baby."
A simple "I didn't write that" shall suffice.
I recall how a couple of years ago Peter Vorobiev forged a bunch of articles in my name all over Usenet, and I posted an announcement to that effect on news.admin.net-abuse.misc, and got some very obnoxious e-mail from Tim Skirvin saying it's off-topic. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps