[saga-rg] Minutes from SAGA-RG meeting (#1) at GGF15

[Thilo Kielmann]

All,

attached please find the notes from today's SAGA meeting.
All errors and typos are solely mine.


Thilo
-- 
Thilo Kielmann                                 http://www.cs.vu.nl/~kielmann/
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Simple API for Grid Applications Research Group (SAGA-RG)

minutes from the meeting at GGF15, 03 Oct, 05, 14:00-15:30
(meeting 1 out of 3 for this GGF)

Meeting chaired by Andre Merzky (Tom Goodale and Shantenu Jha are excused)
Minutes taken by Thilo Kielmann

Agenda:
  - IPR Issues, Agenda Bashing

  Session 1
    - Document Status
      - Use Case Document
      - Requirement Document
      - Strawman API Spec
    - Strawman Spec:
      - Overview Structure
      - Split document?
      - Future extensions?
    - Coverage of Use Cases by current API Draft
    - Sync with GridCPR
    - Sync with GridRPC

  Session 2
    - Detailed discussion of Strawman API
    - Converging toward Spec Draft?

  Session 3
    - Continue detailed API discussion
    - Plan Requirement Document


This is Session 1 of the series of 3 for GGF15

IPR, Agenda Bashing
-------------------

14:00: Andre opens the session, explains the IPR policy and circulates the
sign-up sheet.

The aganda is presented and agreed upon by the audience.

Andre mentions that SAGA representatives will meet GFSG members on tuesday
to discuss the "bit flipping" issue of converting SAGA-RG to SAGA-WG, allowing
to submit a standards track document, namely the API spec.

Document Status
---------------
- use cases, almost in public comment
- strawman API close to submission to editor
- requirements doc still to be written

comment from GridCPR chairs: 
requirements were written as 'conclusions' section in the use case doc.
(not clear if this would satisfy GFSG for SAGA)
will be topic of session 3 (thursday)

Strawman Spec
-------------

Andre shows the wiki, esp. the cookbook part from wiki.cct.lsu/saga/

discussion:

Q: API looks like c++ ?
A: API is object-oriented, but language independent

(A huge cockroach is running through the meeting room.)

Feedback from use case authors:
-some love it
-some hate it (but weren't convincing about their criticism)

event handling still "for later", also resource discovery

resources: open issue: JDSL means "hardware", not services or network...
open issue: describe resources together with a given software stack
compare: cddlm solution description

(Paul Stodghill kills the cockroach.)

Q: what is the purpose of a STRAWMAN ?
A: speeding up the process while working on use cases etc. (Andre Merzky)
A: was intended to 'discover' needed functionality (Craig Lee)

discussion about callback (left out for now, multilanguage issue)

Q: is there an implementation
A: (Andre) work in progress, expected january
   we have experience with GAT (similar idea, non-std API)

Q: relation btw SAGA and OGSA?
A: mostly orthogonal, SAGA apps can use OGSA services, but don't have to.
   SAGA shields from OGSA service interface changes

(note from the note taker: splitting the strawman document was not discussed.)


Sync with gridCPR
-----------------

Derek Simmel: 
gridcpr: aim at user-level checkpointing API, for checkpoint/restart across
different grid machines
platform independence

use cases: fault tolerance, migration, parameter sweeps, monitoring/steering

API pieces needed: state reading/writing
                   checkpoint management
                   event notifications
                   job management

interction with saga-rg?

overlap btw. both APIs?
GridCPR will post first draft of API to SAGA for cross check


Sync with gridRPC
-----------------

Craig Lee, Hidemoto Nakada
GridRPC started from ninf, netsolve, diet projects
API for end users was easy to define "end user document"

issue: argument handling
added asynchronous calls
function handles, data handles

GridRPC could be a client of SAGA, instead of plain Globus or Unicore
interfaces.
main issue: stacks of parameters and results

how to proceed(?): add GridRPC as another SAGA subsystem (?)
would have SAGA look and feel
maybe meet with all 3 gridrpc projects/groups and SAGA at SC05?


announcement: 
ad-hoc BOF on data streams today at 6:00pm

15:30 meeting closed