[ogsa-wg] RE: GRIDtoday Edition: Tony Hey: 'Challenging Times for GGF & Standards'

[Ian Foster]

Dennis:

I'm not sure that the "we don't need WSRF" is the heart of the debate. If 
it was, then I think things are fairly clear: WSRF is just some conventions 
for the messages that you send to do certain things (e.g., 
getResourceProperty to get state, Terminate to destroy something, or 
whatever the names are) in a WS context. If you don't have those 
conventions, then everyone ends up defining their own, so that e.g. a job 
management interface might have "getJobStatus" and "destroyJob", a file 
transfer interface might have "getTransferStatus" and "destroyTransfer". 
This lack of consistency just makes life difficult, without providing any 
benefits.

The debate with MS, as I understand it, seems to rather relate to the fact 
that they are promoting a *different* set of conventions for doing similar 
things, e.g., WS-Transfer instead of WS-ResourceProperties.

Ian.



At 10:23 PM 2/28/2005 -0500, Dennis Gannon wrote:
>hi Sam,
>i don't think MS has any orchestrated view on WSRF at all (but i may
>be wrong.)  I think it is more the case that there are people working on
>grid standards (outside of microsoft) that feel that what exists in the
>ws-spec world is sufficient. hence if there is any onus, it is on those
>folks to show us that this is true.  what tony is saying is that users,
>i.e. application builders, should not have to deal with these details. The
>should see clearly defined OGSA services and they should have an easy
>to understand set of interaction patterns to use these services to build
>thier applications.  the OGSA point of view is that to be precise in
>the definition of these behavior patterns requires a framework like wsrf.
>
>i actually feel that these things can all coexist.  but from the politics
>of "what is simple", we seem to live in interesting times.
>
>dennis
>
>On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Samuel Meder wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 14:38 -0800, Frank Siebenlist wrote:
> > > Could anyone summarize MS' WS-view, and how it differs from WSRF?
> >
> > So far I have not seen any substantial difference between the two
> > approaches and I definitely believe the onus is on MS to show why people
> > should adopt their proprietary specifications vs. adopting something
> > that is being developed in a open standards body, is getting very close
> > to a 1.0 version and has multiple implementations behind it.
> >
> > /Sam
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks, Frank.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hiro Kishimoto wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hi all,
> > > >
> > > >Absorbing article by Tony Hey.
> > > >
> > > >http://news.tgc.com/nview.jsp?appid=360&print=1#342708
> > > >----
> > > >Hiro Kishimoto
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>                                GRIDtoday
> > > >>             NEWS AND INFORMATION FOR THE GLOBAL GRID COMMUNITY
> > > >>                    --- February 28, 2005: Vol. 4, No. 8 ---
> > > >>           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >>SPECIAL FEATURES
> > > >>==============================================================
> > > >>
> > > >>[ ] M342708 ) WSRF? WS-*? Where is GGF's OGSA Headed?
> > > >>              By Tony Hey, Contributing Editor
> > > >>
> > > >>  Tony Hey, director of e-Science for the Engineering and Physical
> > > >>Science Research Council, continues to elaborate the need for open
> > > >>standards in the realm of Web services-based Grid computing. He
> > > >>discusses the great debate of WSRF vs. WS-*, and lays out what the
> > GGF
> > > >>must do with OGSA in order to give e-Science application developers
> > > >>something to rally around.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > --
> > Sam Meder <meder at mcs.anl.gov>
> > The Globus Alliance - University of Chicago
> > 630-252-1752
> >
> >
> >

_______________________________________________________________
Ian Foster                    www.mcs.anl.gov/~foster
Math & Computer Science Div.  Dept of Computer Science
Argonne National Laboratory   The University of Chicago
Argonne, IL 60439, U.S.A.     Chicago, IL 60637, U.S.A.
Tel: 630 252 4619             Fax: 630 252 1997
         Globus Alliance, www.globus.org
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