[ogsa-bes-wg] OGSA BES Meeting and WS-BaseFaults
Ian Foster
foster at mcs.anl.gov
Thu Aug 31 02:31:16 CDT 2006
Marvin:
Sorry I missed that. This seems like a good solution.
Ian.
At 07:11 PM 8/30/2006 -0700, Marvin Theimer wrote:
>Hi;
>
>
>
>My email from yesterday (see copy below) summarizes where I believe things
>are. People should please speak up if they disagree with my perception of
>things. J
>
>
>
>Marvin.
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi;
>
>
>
>Apologies for replying to this email thread so late.
>
>
>
>At the BES telecon call last week we decided to not require WS-BaseFaults
>in the BES specification. As Tom Maguire pointed out in his emails
>(below), there are issues with requiring that only WS-BF faults be
>returned, including that one must be prepared to accept non WS-BF faults
>from intermediaries in any case. I had made a statement in email and on
>telecon calls that people I had queried at Microsoft had also raised
>various concerns related to tooling. Included below is part of an email
>from a colleague that sheds a bit more light on the issues that have
>people concerned.
>
>
>
>-----------------------------
>
>Here is my quick skim through:
>
>
>
>Main goal of the spec is to introduce base type for detail element of the
>fault
>
>1) Not clear what value base fault type provides over SOAP 1.2 Fault
>, except for d)
>
>a. Originator EPR:
>
> i.
> Originator EPR is always known via Addressing facilities.
>
> ii. Mix
> in of infrastructure details into application message parts: application
> may not know what its EPR is.
>
>b. ErrorCode:
>
> i.
> Limited duplicate of SOAP1.2 fault codes and sub-codes. Uri associated
> with fault should be represented by the wsa:Action
>
>c. Description:
>
> i.
> duplicates SOAP 1.2 Fault reason
>
>d. FaultCause:
>
> i.
> this is the only valuable piece IMHO common representation of nested
> exceptions.
>
> ii.
> This can be provided by using open content model for SOAP1.2 Fault detail .
>
>
>
>2) Child elements of Base fault are not namespace qualified this
>leads to known threats of having unqualified elements. Does not map to
>DataContract.
>
>
>
>3) Should not require name=faulton the message there is no need for
>this and this blocks existing WSDL-generators.
>
>
>
>4) Folks need to define Action uris for individual fault messages,
>since Addressing is assumed to be used.
>
>
>
>Our WSDLs generated by default for Faults will not adhere to 2 and 3.
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>Points 2 and 3 are the key issues:
>
>· Point 2 implies a security issue and Im leery about introducing
>anything that even hints of a security problem.
>
>· Point 2 also references the fact that Microsoft (and others)
>tooling is headed in the direction of generating (and analyzing) contracts
>over web service protocols. Making a web service protocol into a
>statically analyzable contract implies that you either explicitly expose
>all the possible nested fault details implying that youve tightly coupled
>things and made them brittle with respect to internal service behaviors
>that might change over time or that you have protocol content that cant be
>determined until runtime.
>
>· Point 3 is a good example of WS-BF breaking the tooling.
>
>
>
>Marvin.
>
>
>
>
>
>----------
>From: Ian Foster [mailto:foster at mcs.anl.gov]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:03 PM
>To: Marvin Theimer; Pulsipher_Darren at emc.com; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org
>Subject: RE: [ogsa-bes-wg] OGSA BES Meeting and WS-BaseFaults
>
>
>
>Where do things stand with the WS-BF issue?
>
>
>At 04:14 AM 8/24/2006 -0700, Marvin Theimer wrote:
>
>Hi;
>
>Apologies for not responding until now. I will try to cover the topic of
>WS-BaseFaults and potential alternatives on today's BES telecon call. I
>will also send out an email about the topic afterwards.
>
>Marvin.
>________________________________
>From: owner-ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org On Behalf Of Ian Foster
>Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:14 PM
>To: Pulsipher_Darren at emc.com; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org
>Subject: Re: [ogsa-bes-wg] OGSA BES Meeting
>
>I can't make the call tomorrow. It seems important to address the
>WS-BaseFaults issue. I've proposed that we organize a call with the
>Microsoft people who say that they cannot use WS-BS, so that we can
>understand their concerns and also have an opportunity for a WS-BS
>advocate to explain the benefits of WS-BS. I haven't seen a response to
>that proposal.
>
>
>At 05:23 AM 8/22/2006 -0400, Pulsipher_Darren at emc.com wrote:
>When: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:30 AM-11:30 AM (GMT-06:00) Central Time
>(US & Canada).
>Where: On Line
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>_______________________________________________________________
>Ian Foster -- Weblog:
>http://ianfoster.typepad.com<http://ianfoster.typepad.com/>
>Computation Institute: www.ci.uchicago.edu<http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/> &
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>_______________________________________________________________
>Ian Foster -- Weblog: http://ianfoster.typepad.com
>Computation Institute: www.ci.uchicago.edu & www.ci.anl.gov
>Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
>Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
>Tel: +1 630 252 4619 --- Globus Alliance: www.globus.org
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>
_______________________________________________________________
Ian Foster -- Weblog: http://ianfoster.typepad.com
Computation Institute: www.ci.uchicago.edu & www.ci.anl.gov
Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
Tel: +1 630 252 4619 --- Globus Alliance: www.globus.org
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