[ogsa-bes-wg] OGSA BES Meeting and WS-BaseFaults
Marvin Theimer
theimer at microsoft.com
Wed Aug 30 21:11:48 CDT 2006
Hi;
My email from yesterday (see copy below) summarizes where I believe things are. People should please speak up if they disagree with my perception of things. J
Marvin.
Hi;
Apologies for replying to this email thread so late.
At the BES telecon call last week we decided to not require WS-BaseFaults in the BES specification. As Tom Maguire pointed out in his emails (below), there are issues with requiring that only WS-BF faults be returned, including that one must be prepared to accept non WS-BF faults from intermediaries in any case. I had made a statement in email and on telecon calls that people I had queried at Microsoft had also raised various concerns related to tooling. Included below is part of an email from a colleague that sheds a bit more light on the issues that have people concerned.
-----------------------------
Here is my quick skim through:
Main goal of the spec is to introduce base type for detail element of the fault
1) Not clear what value base fault type provides over SOAP 1.2 Fault , except for d)
a. Originator EPR:
i. Originator EPR is always known via Addressing facilities.
ii. Mix in of infrastructure details into application message parts: application may not know what it's EPR is.
b. ErrorCode:
i. Limited duplicate of SOAP1.2 fault codes and sub-codes. Uri associated with fault should be represented by the wsa:Action
c. Description:
i. duplicates SOAP 1.2 Fault reason
d. FaultCause:
i. this is the only valuable piece IMHO - common representation of nested exceptions.
ii. This can be provided by using open content model for SOAP1.2 Fault detail .
2) Child elements of Base fault are not namespace qualified - this leads to known threats of having unqualified elements. Does not map to DataContract.
3) Should not require name='fault' on the message - there is no need for this and this blocks existing WSDL-generators.
4) Folks need to define Action uris for individual fault messages, since Addressing is assumed to be used.
Our WSDLs generated by default for Faults will not adhere to 2 and 3.
-----------------------------------------------
Points 2 and 3 are the key issues:
· Point 2 implies a security issue and I'm leery about introducing anything that even hints of a security problem.
· Point 2 also references the fact that Microsoft (and others') tooling is headed in the direction of generating (and analyzing) contracts over web service protocols. Making a web service protocol into a statically analyzable contract implies that you either explicitly expose all the possible nested fault details - implying that you've tightly coupled things and made them brittle with respect to internal service behaviors that might change over time - or that you have protocol content that can't be determined until runtime.
· Point 3 is a good example of WS-BF breaking the tooling.
Marvin.
________________________________
From: Ian Foster [mailto:foster at mcs.anl.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:03 PM
To: Marvin Theimer; Pulsipher_Darren at emc.com; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org
Subject: RE: [ogsa-bes-wg] OGSA BES Meeting and WS-BaseFaults
Where do things stand with the WS-BF issue?
At 04:14 AM 8/24/2006 -0700, Marvin Theimer wrote:
Hi;
Apologies for not responding until now. I will try to cover the topic of WS-BaseFaults and potential alternatives on today's BES telecon call. I will also send out an email about the topic afterwards.
Marvin.
________________________________
From: owner-ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org On Behalf Of Ian Foster
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:14 PM
To: Pulsipher_Darren at emc.com; ogsa-bes-wg at ggf.org
Subject: Re: [ogsa-bes-wg] OGSA BES Meeting
I can't make the call tomorrow. It seems important to address the WS-BaseFaults issue. I've proposed that we organize a call with the Microsoft people who say that they cannot use WS-BS, so that we can understand their concerns and also have an opportunity for a WS-BS advocate to explain the benefits of WS-BS. I haven't seen a response to that proposal.
At 05:23 AM 8/22/2006 -0400, Pulsipher_Darren at emc.com wrote:
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