[occi-wg] Opinion Poll: IaaS or PaaS ?
Sam Johnston
samj at samj.net
Tue Jun 30 13:09:02 CDT 2009
Krishna,
I've been looking further into the current state of play with OVF support
and doing some tests with various products. I found an interesting InfoWeek
article including the views of one of my former colleagues at Citrix: "Crosby:
Walk The Walk, Yes, But Not Down The OVF
Path<http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/10/crosby_walk_the.html>
".
Which brings me back to my original Time To Walk The
Walk<http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/10/virtualization_9.html>point.
If we now have a neutral export/import format, why can't we have a
> neutral runtime format that everyone could adhere to, saving virtualization
> customers tons of headaches? OVF isn't it, I now understand. But what will
> be?
>
So for runtime formats we've got:
- VMware using key-value pairs (VMX) which spills over into XML
- Sun VirtualBox using a home-grown OVF-style XML format
- Microsoft Virtual Server and Virtual PC using another home-grown XML
format
- Citrix XenServer using a simple INI style key-value pair
(xmdomain.cfg<http://linux.die.net/man/5/xmdomain.cfg>
)
The most successful runtime formats by far then are the flat text formats,
though for safety and extensibility it makes sense to have namespaces ala
VMX:
usb.present = "TRUE"
ethernet0.virtualDev = "e1000"
ethernet0.generatedAddress = "00:0c:29:cd:98:8f"
That is to say that we may want to (somewhat independently of the OCCI
protocol itself) standardise a runtime descriptor format which allows us to
describe basic infrastructure - probably only the things that are currently
exposed by IaaS offerings like cpu cores, memory size, etc.
Sam
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Sam Johnston <samj at samj.net> wrote:
> Krishna,
>
> Native OVF support would certainly be advantageous to OEM offerings
> including Cisco's Unified Cloud (per Cisco and VMware Enhance
> Virtualization with Powerful, Scalable Unified Computing System<http://www.vmware.com/company/news/releases/cisco-vmw-oem.html>)
> and IBM 's WebSphere CloudBurst Appliance (per IBM CloudBurst runs on ESXi<http://blogs.vmware.com/esxi/2009/06/ibm-cloudburst-runs-on-esxi.html>)
> as these products are based on VMware, which as of the latest release now
> has full support for OVF<http://www.dmtf.org/about/cloud-incubator/Cloud_Incubator_Quote_Sheet.pdf>(presumably meaning as a run-time rather than interchange format). As such
> we will ensure that it is supported, in that implementations that choose to
> implement it can both accept and produce OVF representations. Whether we
> make it an absolute requirement by incorporating it into the OCCI standard
> is yet to be decided - I'm unconvinced.
>
> Following ElasticHosts' example all you would need to create a server is
> the following (bearing in mind we're currently talking about putting storage
> and network association metadata in the headers):
>
> $ cat << EOF | curl --url http://example.com -d @-
> name TestServer
> cpu 2000
> mem 1024
> EOF
>
> Doing the same in OVF would require (at least) tens of lines of XML, and
> were it easy to generate we wouldn't be seeing questions like "How do you
> use completely free software to create ovf files for VMware ESXi?<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/681519/how-do-you-use-completely-free-software-to-create-ovf-files-for-vmware-esxi>"
> essentially going unanswered.
>
> Don't get me wrong - OVF support makes a lot of sense for many use cases...
> tor example it would be cool to be able to create a VM in a tool like VMware
> Fusion and upload it directly (save for the ironic lack of OVF support<http://communities.vmware.com/message/947976>)
> and public cloud providers I'm sure would be very happy to make it easy for
> enterprises to upload existing virtualised infrastructure. Making it an
> absolute requirement is another matter (and one that made a lot more sense
> with my earlier proposals whereby it would have been carried transparently
> in Atom's content element).
>
> As for my second guessing what other SSOs are up to, these are my opinions
> based on clues like VMware's recent announcement<http://www.vmware.com/company/news/releases/cloud-initiatives-vmworld.html>that "
> *as one of the original authors of the Open Virtualization Format (OVF)
> standard now released from the Distributed Management Task Force (DMTF),
> VMware will build upon that work by submitting a draft of its VMware vCloud
> API*". As they say in French, "les cheins ne font pas des chats"
> (literally "cats don't make dogs") so with an existing standard injected
> this early in the development process it's hard to imagine the result won't
> look like (if not be [almost] identical to) the VMware API<http://www.vmware.com/support/developer/vc-sdk/visdk400pubs/ReferenceGuide/index.html>,
> complete with its 87 Managed Object References, 1331 Data Object Types, 168
> Enumeration Types and 435 Fault Types.
>
> Of course Cisco's a DMTF member so you've got a better chance of verifying
> this than I do... I've not yet been able to justify coughing up $200 for
> early access to the docs (assuming they already exist).
>
> Sam
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Krishna Sankar (ksankar) <
> ksankar at cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Sam,
>>
>> a) I suggest you tone down your rhetoric (unless you have proof
>> that, that is so) on what other SDOs might be doing … seek to understand
>> first ;o) OGF (and GGF) has long history of working with others and we do
>> not want to singlehandedly reverse that
>>
>> b) This is the standard NIH syndrome
>>
>> c) And simpler format usually will get complex as the domain
>> matures.
>>
>> d) Moreover we can leverage future work done by others as the cloud
>> computing domain grows and by extension we get more demands for the OCCI
>> interfaces feature set …
>>
>> e) BTW, why is it difficult to roll an OVF file ? After all it is an
>> XML file. Are you having second thoughts on XML format ? ;o) Time to come
>> clean if that is the case !
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> <k/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sam Johnston [mailto:samj at samj.net]
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:21 AM
>> *To:* Michael Behrens
>> *Cc:* Krishna Sankar (ksankar); Randy Bias; occi-wg at ogf.org
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [occi-wg] Opinion Poll: IaaS or PaaS ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd be surprised if OASIS were working on a new version given it's a DMTF
>> standard but you're right - it's extensible and it's certainly one format I
>> expect most, if not all, implementations to support anyway. DMTF are no
>> doubt very busy rubber stamping VMware's vcloud API at the moment so I doubt
>> OVF is high on their list of priorities - waiting for news from Thijs
>> regarding our collaboration with them.
>>
>> The question then is if we want/need a simpler format ala ElasticHosts:
>>
>> cores 2
>> memory 2048
>> ...
>>
>> We quite probably do (it is after all a fairly simple problem to solve, as
>> evidenced by the simplicity of your average virtual machine descriptor), and
>> there are a good few people in support of this. In any case it would be at
>> least mildly ironic to raise hell over XML in the protocol only to require
>> it for the data interchange format ;)
>>
>> Rolling your own OVF file is a bit of a mission compared to sending a few
>> key value pairs...
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Michael Behrens <
>> michael.behrens at r2ad.com> wrote:
>>
>> The OVF standard is extensible, so perhaps start with that and then extend
>> as needed. Does anyone know if OASIS is working on a new version? If so,
>> then perhaps a runtime/creation use-case could be submitted.
>>
>> Krishna Sankar (ksankar) wrote:
>>
>> Need to understand a little bit more on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> a) Wouldn’t it be better to add the missing attributes/elements to
>> OVF than inventing a new format
>>
>> b) The client has to understand something – either OVF or some other
>> representation. So why not add to OVF ?
>>
>> c) Finally, are there something fundamentally missing from/totally
>> incompatible with OVF that it cannot be fixed ?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> <k/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* occi-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:occi-wg-bounces at ogf.org<occi-wg-bounces at ogf.org>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Sam Johnston
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:20 AM
>> *To:* Randy Bias
>> *Cc:* occi-wg at ogf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [occi-wg] Opinion Poll: IaaS or PaaS ?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Randy Bias <randyb at neotactics.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sure, but that's not the issue. The issue is VM portability. It's
>> important, but difficult. That's my point. Specifying the hypervisor of an
>> image just means the cloud has enough foreknowledge to reject the upload.
>>
>>
>> Exactly. In fact my main concern is that as OVF is only ever used as a
>> transport rather than run-time format there are two potentially lossy
>> transformations (one to bundle up e.g. a VMware virtual machine to OVF and
>> another to unbundle it to say Hyper-V). Any settings that fall outside of
>> the OVF net (potentially including critical details such as interface
>> parameters) will be ignored at best and lost at worst.
>>
>> If a client wants to make a VM it should not need to understand OVF so we
>> will have our own, simple descriptor language that I imagine will end up
>> looking like the stuff in VMX files (example attached). If we are careful
>> about how we do this we may well be able to solve the VM portability problem
>> as well - something I'm sure many of the open source projects would be happy
>> to see.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>>
>> On Jun 14, 2009, at 8:38 PM, Sam Johnston wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:05 AM, Randy Bias <randyb at neotactics.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> If you don't have this capability then allowing the upload of
>> completely opaque images and hoping they will have any kind of reasonable
>> performance on an arbitrary cloud providers system is a pipe dream. This is
>> an area badly in need of standardization, but I doubt it will come any time
>> soon.
>>
>>
>> Fortunately specifying the type of hypervisor an image is tied
>> to/optimised for isn't hard...
>>
>> Sam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy Bias, Cloud Strategist
>> +1 (415) 939-8507 [m], randyb at neotactics.com
>>
>> BLOG: http://cloudscaling.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> occi-wg mailing list
>>
>> occi-wg at ogf.org
>>
>> http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/occi-wg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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</undo_drives>
<video>
<full_screen type="boolean">false</full_screen>
</video>
</settings>
</preferences>
-------------- next part --------------
name ='miaffw001-at02'
disk = ['phy:/dev/at02/miaffw001,ioemu:hda,w']
memory = 512
builder = hvm
kernel = /usr/lib/xen/boot/hvmloader
device_model = /usr/lib/xen/bin/qemu-dm
boot = c
vnc = 1
vncdisplay = 4
sdl = 0
apic = 0
acpi = 0
vif = ['type=ioemu, bridge=xenbr5', 'type=ioemu, bridge=xenbr6', 'type=ioemu, bridge=xenbr7']
vcpus = 1
cpus = 5
on_poweroff = 'destroy'
on_reboot = 'restart'
on_crash = 'restart'
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