China's wealthy bypass the banks

[Tyler Durden]

Ah. This is an interesting point.

The Qing were 1) Manchus (ie, not Han Chinese)...they were basically a 
foreign occupation that stuck around for a while; and 2) (Nominally Tibetan) 
Buddhists. Although they of course adhered to the larger Confucian notions, 
they in many ways deviated from mainstream Confucian beliefs.

Also, you need to get more specific about WHEN during the Qing dynasty you 
believed this occurred. During the 19th century this is most certainly NOT 
true, and there are many famous naval battles that occurred between the 
British and the Chinese navies (in fact, the famous Stone Boat in the Summer 
palace was built using funds that were supposed to pay for real ships).

But perhaps you meant ocean-going boat ownership by private individuals, and 
that is certainly something that was a BIG no-no during many epochs of 
Chinese civilization. And indeed, this is probably precisely why the Chinese 
had to defend themselves from British attack, rather than the other way 
around.

But this has nothing to do with Confucianism per se, but is more directly 
related to good old traditional Chinese xenophobia.

In the end, Chinese unification was probably a devil's bargain. It created a 
far more stable "nation", but at the cost of human freedom. But it's not 
precisely like this was imposed on the populace from without...that it was 
successful at all in a place as large and remote as China is a testimony to 
Chinese dislike of "Wai Guo" culture.

-TD

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>To: cypherpunks <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks
>Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:11:09 -0800
>
>     --
>ken wrote:
> > > And when was this stagnation?
>
>R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> > Two words: Ming Navy
>
>For those who need more words, the Qing Dynasty forbade
>ownership or building of ocean going vessels, on pain of death
>- the early equivalent of the iron curtain.
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      Iw7Wkew4KTQWmS2lvvIMd7+fR3rWAWagnqJ4cF0k
>      4Ee4DcVaw474VQFVRrwVAXR4XZSXiaNtRuKXYpsBo