[CCGT] RE: [gfsg] Fwd: Community Council Agenda items - April 5 Meeting
Charlie Catlett
catlett at mcs.anl.gov
Thu Apr 28 11:45:10 CDT 2005
Well, it's interesting for me to approach GGF from outside of the
walls of power. :-) As I'm the one who approved all of the
gauntlets and triplicate forms I certainly have no one else to blame!
I need to get an answer on this more or less immediately, however, so
can I get an official yes or no this week? I'm assuming since Julie
contacted me about scheduling that we are going to get our visa
approved.
I spoke with Peter Arzberger (leads the PRAGMA group) and asked him
to recruit 1 or 2 Asian co-chairs for the workshop - he will be
pouring over the background information while on his flight to
Singapore tonight for the PRAGMA meeting there.
Next Monday I will hop on a plane to London, where I'll see Tony Hey
on Tuesday and Wednesday at the GridToday industry summit. I
mentioned this workshop to him in early April and he was interested,
so I am hoping next week to get an eScience person to help co-chair.
But my local co-chairs (Nancy WIlkins-Diehr from SDSC and Sebastien
Goasguen from Purdue are doing the real work, though the list
includes myself, Dennis and Ian Foster) are getting nervous about
running out of time to organize and advertise.
This last point is important, because the workshop really is being
proposed to address GGF's community aspirations - to get more folks
involved who would not normally already be coming to GGF.
Thanks-
CeC
At 9:48 PM +0100 4/25/05, Malcolm Atkinson wrote:
>Sorry Charlie to have been so demanding - that all looks great to me. I
>never doubted that it would be. I partly posed the questions to see if
>the old GROC criteria (which I had used in my judgements) were still the
>ones GFSG would support.
>
>Malcolm
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Charlie Catlett [mailto:catlett at mcs.anl.gov]
> >Sent: 18 April 2005 16:27
> >To: matsu at is.titech.ac.jp; Malcolm Atkinson
> >Cc: ccgt at ggf.org
> >Subject: Re: [gfsg] Fwd: Community Council Agenda items -
> >April 5 Meeting
> >
> >>
> >>mpa> I read all three workshop proposals.
> >>mpa> The questions look like the old GROC ones, and I notice
> >that Charlie
> >>mpa> didn't answer them and that the health grid only
> >answered some of them.
> >
> >Ah, sorry I didn't run the GROC approval gauntlet correctly - we
> >spend several hours in Seoul talking about how to get additional
> >communities engaged in GGF and this was in direct response to that
> >GFSG discussion. I did not realize I still needed to fill out the
> >GROC forms in triplicate. :-)
> >
> >Appended is my response to Malcolm's two (not focused on one group;
> >publication). Here is my official GROC application form:
> >
> >A) Workshop Title
> >
> >Science Gateways: Exploring Common Interfaces, Policies and
> >Interactions between Grid Resources and Science Communities
> >
> >B) Proposed workshop organizer names and affiliations (possibly
> >incl. review committee for type 2). Be sure to identify yourself if
> >you are a chair of an existing RG/WG.
> >
> >Catlett (UC/ANL), Gannon (IU), Foster (UC/ANL), Wilkins-Diehr (UCSD),
> >Goasguen (Purdue)
> >Have requested contacts from Tony Hey and Satoshi Matsuoka for people
> >doing similar work elsewhere to help organize.
> >
> >C) RG/WG that will be involved (including potential RG/WGs as
> >well as RG/WGs up for approval). If you are proposing a workshop
> >without being a full RG, please provide a separate RG submission
> >info, including candidate RG name, charter, area, chairs, BOF
> >descriptions, etc.
> >
> >This workshop does not involve a particular RG/WG - it is intended to
> >bring in new communities. However, we expect that some from the Life
> >Sciences RG and GCE RG will participate.
> >
> >D) Scope and Content (a paragraph or two of the workshop
> >description to be put on the program.
> >
> >Provided already
> >
> >E) Potential speakers for type one (invited( and possibly two
> >workshops. Any additional info are welcome including the title of the
> >talk, their abstract, etc. In fact the proposed program may be put
> >here.
> >
> >We will have 4-6 presentations from people who are building, or have
> >built, science gateways (portals or application software that
> >provides Grid resources to scientists). Three will be from the
> >TeraGrid project, three from other projects as we find them (we are
> >actively seeking).
> >
> >There will be 4-6 presentations regarding key technology/policy
> >issues such as authentication and authorization, web services
> >implementation strategies, etc.
> >
> >F) Past History of hosting a similar workshop inside or
> >outside GGF.
> >
> >Catlett, Foster and Gannon have pretty good track record
> >right there...
> >
> >G) Duration of workshop - half day (2-3 slots incl. Breaks) or
> >whole day (4-5 slots)
> >
> >Whole day
> >
> >H) Estimated # of participants (if possible)
> >
> >Unsure - probably 100-150
> >
> >I) Publication Plans --- please indicate if you have plan to
> >publish the workshop result with a certain publisher. If left out we
> >will assume that the workshop product will be a GGF Informational
> >Document.
> >
> >GGF informational
> >
> >
> >CeC
> >
> >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:50:08 -0500
> >>To: matsu at is.titech.ac.jp, Charlie Catlett <catlett at mcs.anl.gov>,
> >>Dennis Gannon <gannon at cs.indiana.edu>
> >>From: Charlie Catlett <catlett at mcs.anl.gov>
> >>Subject: Re: [CCGT] Science Gateways workshop background
> >>Cc: matsu at is.titech.ac.jp, ccgt at ggf.org
> >>Bcc:
> >>X-Attachments:
> >>
> >>Hi-
> >>The purpose of the workshop is to bring together folks who are
> >>trying to bring Grid capabilities to a particular science community
> >>(atmospheric scientists, chemists, bioinformatics folks, etc.), and
> >>who are looking to use web services and/or web portals to do so. I
> >>am seeing these communities moving out ahead of GGF or the "grid"
> >>experts or "portal" experts. This is creating a danger that those
> >>of us running Grids or Grid resources will have a chaotic situation
> >>where our key commmunities will each want to set up an ad-hoc
> >>interaction mode with us to serve their communities. One will want
> >>to use group accounts and another will want to install a custom
> >>daemon on our machines. Another will want to use web services and
> >>another will want .NET.
> >>
> >>The draft I circulated was a first cut at understanding what 10
> >>communities are trying to build, and all ten want to access Grid
> >>resources in TeraGrid. Some are also building their own Grids, and
> >>all would like to also access Grid resources in the UK or Japan.
> >>
> >>The idea of this workshop is to bring these consumers together with
> >>one another and with producers to see if there are some things we
> >>might agree on that can be implemented to nudge them toward some
> >>common solutions. Now, some TeraGrid folks have made some headway
> >>in looking at this and I would like to broaden that discussion to
> >>others who are doing similar things (or should be). To this end I
> >>asked Tony Hey last week to put me in touch with the right person or
> >>persons from the UK, and would like similar contacts from Japan
> >>(Satoshi please suggest) and elsewhere.
> >>
> >>I don't see this as a TeraGrid-centric activity - we don't need GGF
> >>to do that. We need GGF to help us broaden the effort by helping us
> >>reach other communities.
> >>
> >>So I would expect to do a call for participation not to the producer
> >>community (GCE-RG, GGF typical producer population, portal experts),
> >>though it would be good for them to participate, but to the consumer
> >>community. I.e. those who don't really care that much about
> >>standards or web services or grid technology other than that they
> >>want to use them to serve their customers doing science.
> >>
> >>The draft I circulated would be used to structure the workshop, get
> >>input from more consumer groups, get producer groups to talk about
> >>how they are addressing these issues, and then update the document
> >>as a GGF informational document.
> >>
> >>
> >>CeC
> >>
> >>At 2:21 AM +0900 4/10/05, Satoshi Matsuoka wrote:
> >>>Charlie, Dennis,
> >>>
> >>>I agree on its viability, but still Malcolm's concern that it be a
> >>>TeraGrid-only centric event will have to be considered. Here is a
> >>>(form) letter,
> >>>and with proper fulfillment of the workshop template and widespread
> >>>solicitation to key portal groups in EU as well as AP, hopefully the
> >>>concern will be addressed.
> >>>
> >>>(form letter is attached below)
> >>> Satoshi
> >>>
> >>>----
> >>>
> >>>On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:52:37 -0500
> >>>Charlie Catlett <catlett at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>catlett> Friends-
> >>>catlett> Since the proposal I sent regarding this workshop
> >mentioned a group
> >>>catlett> in TeraGrid that was aiming to have a document
> >drafted in March I
> >>>catlett> wanted to send it to you. It's very preliminary,
> >but it shows that
> >>>catlett> the group is serious and already getting work
> >done. I expect an
> >>>catlett> iteration on this document within a few weeks
> >since it was discussed
> >>>catlett> in great detail during several sessions of the
> >TeraGrid all-hands
> >>>catlett> meeting earlier this week. I think this workshop
> >will be very
> >>>catlett> important to the community. My hope is that it will bring
> >>>in some of
> >>>catlett> the less-involved sectors of the community
> >including people who are:
> >>>catlett>
> >>>catlett> - building portals for scientific communities
> >>>catlett> - implementing web services on resources in
> >operational grids
> >>>catlett> - developing operational policies and mechanisms
> >for varying degrees
> >>>catlett> of authorization (from full access shell accounts
> >to restricted
> >>>catlett> service invocations) based on varying degrees of
> >>>authentication (from
> >>>catlett> highly trusted authentication to anonymous access)
> >>>catlett> - trying to make multiple grids work together, etc.
> >>>catlett>
> >>>catlett> CeC
> >>>
> >>>-----
> >>>
> >>>Charlie, Dennis,
> >>>
> >>>Thanks for yoru workshop proposal for the workshop proposal
> >>>"Science Gateways Portals Workshop".
> >>>
> >>>I am sending this email as the current GROC co-chair and
> >also on behalf
> >>>of the newly proposed community council.
> >>>
> >>>As a part of transitional activity of GGF governance to
> >strengthen the
> >>>community activities, the GFSG and the proposed community council
> >>>therein will be taking active responsibility in workshop
> >oversight. In
> >>>the light of this we have decided to provide active dialogs to the
> >>>workshop organizers to help strengthen the organizational process as
> >>>well as its exterior outreach.
> >>>
> >>>Please re-distribute this email to other organizers as well
> >as anybody
> >>>else involved in your workshop organization.
> >>>
> >>>Since time is short till GGF14, I am accelerating the
> >process by sending
> >>>you comment(s) already made. As you see, although you have solid
> >>>backings, and the workshop is accepted in principle,
> >nevertheless as you
> >>>see the comments below indicate that there is room for
> >improvement in
> >>>the proposal. I hope you could make the initial revisions
> >by reflect the
> >>>comments as you see fit, and send to the (proposed)
> >community council
> >>>the revised version in about a week's time (around April
> >15th). In the
> >>>meantime as additional comments come along, which will be
> >forwarded to
> >>>you if deemed helpful in the improvement, and if you make
> >improvements
> >>>as well, please let us know where you would like to do so.
> >>>
> >>>Also please note that the primary intention for this is that we will
> >>>want to allow some of the workshop to be a
> >>>academically viable and recognizable activity from not only
> >within the
> >>>Grid community but from other CS communities. Thus, we would like
> >>>to push on external communication of the workshop, both in terms of
> >>>the content as well as the viability of its organizational
> >manners. It
> >>>is NOT intended to increase bureacratic stronghold of GFSG and the
> >>>community council therein over the research groups.
> >>>
> >>>To quote one community council member: "I am passionate
> >about the high
> >>>value of good workshops: they stimulate, they inform, they build
> >>>communities, they cross-fertilise and they recognise the
> >need for new
> >>>lines of work. Without workshops I think GGF would drift
> >towards narrow
> >>>technical nit-picking standards. The value of workshops is much
> >>>diminished if the only effects are on those at the
> >workshop. Hence the
> >>>demand for publication and publicity."
> >>>
> >>>I hope the new (proposed) community council can fruitfully
> >work with the
> >>>workshop organizers to fulfill such desires, to have you
> >host a high-quality
> >>>and a productive workshop. Looking forward to the
> >>>revised proposal as well as the workshop itself. Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>> Satoshi Matsuoka
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Comment 1:
> >>>===
> >>>The Science Portals workshop looks a good topic, and we can
> >trust Dennis
> >>>and Charlie will run an excellent workshop. However, we
> >need to take
> >>>care that it doesn't become TeraGrid centred or US centred.
> > We should
> >>>see others, from Asian grids and European grids engaged in
> >planning /
> >>>presenting IMHO. I can find some, but the recent week on
> >portals at eSI
> >>>led by Jason Navotny has a good list of names
> >>>(http://www.nesc.ac.uk/action/esi/contribution.cfm?Title=549),
> >>>particularly UK ones.
> >>>
> >>>I would also suggest Roberto Barbera from Catania, bringing
> >experience
> >>>on EGEE's use of the GENIUS portal Roberto Barbera
> >>><roberto.barbera at ct.infn.it> https://genius.ct.infn.it/.
> >We have used
> >>>it extensively for traiining and (with GILDA) for new user community
> >>>induction.
> >>>
> >>>What is the planned model of communication? What should it
> >not clash
> >>>with? ...
> >>>
> >>>I vote for accept, but push on broadening, getting
> >questions answered
> >>>and publication plan.
> >>>===
> >>>
> >>>Comment 2 (general):
> >>>===
> >>>I think we might encourage more substantial publication
> >such as journal
> >>>special issues so as to give greater credit to (academic)
> >participants
> >>>However in general I think we should let each workshop make
> >its choice as
> >>>"external outreach, publication and publicity" which should exist in
> >>>some fashion
> >>>
> >>>===
> >>>
> >>>Comment 3: (Satoshi)
> >>>===
> >>>There are several groups in AP working on "Science Gateway" Portals,
> >>>including those in Japan and Korea, and those should be contacted.
> >>>For example, AIST-GTRC has a PSE Builder effort, and
> >NAREGI's WP3/6 are
> >>>working on high-level portals interface. Korea's K* Grid has several
> >>>efforts in those regard.
> >>>
> >>>Perhaps the best method is to do a call-out throught
> >pragma, with help
> >>>from Peter Artzburger @ San Diego. By all means it is
> >important to make
> >>>the intentions clear so that not all the Grid portals on
> >earth will try
> >>>to participate and ask for a time slot.
> >>>
> >>>---------
> >
> >
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