Fwd: Inspirational - Senator Culleton's Passionate Maiden Senate Speech gets Standing Ovation - YouTube
It is rare that any politician gets a standing ovation. Here is one: Subject: Fwd: RE: Inspirational - Senator Culleton's Passionate Maiden Senate Speech gets Standing Ovation - YouTube *WHAT AN INSPIRATIONAL SPEECH* Date: Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 7:16 PM Subject: Fwd: RE: Inspirational - Senator Culleton's Passionate Maiden Senate Speech gets Standing Ovation - YouTube It's been a very long time since we've had a politician in Parliament with the sort of passion for Australia that Rod Culleton demonstrated yesterday. Be prepared to be moved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pbt7cQ_bkE I ask that you forward, share, like, tweet and generally spread this clip as far and wide as you can because every Australian needs the opportunity to be inspired by what our Senator Culleton said yesterday. Senator CULLETON <http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F266482%22;querytype=;rec=0> (Western Australia) (17:20): I stand here in this chamber today to present my inaugural speech on oath, to deliver my message to the Australian people. What follows will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth before almighty God and the people of Australia. To senators, veterans, Indigenous elders of this great land and all Australians, Pauline quoted 'I'm back!' My quote is: 'I'm here! Despite all attempts to silence the WA voters' choice, I am here—bright-eyed and bushy-tailed—despite all attempts to deflate my tyres on the drive over from Western Australia.' As one would know, a good farmer always keeps a good puncture kit handy in the ashtray of the ute and a good toolbox in the back. It is true it can be hard to pull up a cocky. Just reiterating a few housekeeping rules: it appears that during other speeches certain members are leaving the field before the final siren goes, so if any senator wants to leave now is as good a time as any. I pay tribute to my party leader Pauline Hanson, the PH in One Nation. A good PH balance will grow a healthy Australia, and this 'hung parliament' promises to do exactly that. Being a Nationals voter for 35 years, I am honoured to be a One Nation senator representing my constituents in WA. With the support of my fellow senators Malcolm Roberts, Brian Burston and, again, Pauline Hanson, One Nation is the awesome foursome. We will be your voice in the Senate. We will work with other crossbench senators and both sides of the chamber to ensure Australia is heard and effectively represented. On my first day of parliament I witnessed members singing out of the same hymn book in St Andrew's cathedral in Canberra. This now needs to be mirrored in both chambers in the Australian parliament. As a farmer, it is true, the only audience I have had to address up until now has simply been a mob of sheep in the yards. If I sound a little rough, rest assured I will apply a little bit of choke until I get up to running temperature. I want my actions in this place to reflect my own personal experiences, and having been locked in a financial crocodile roll for the last six years with people trying to steal my intellectual property, I have lost all incentive to invent anything again. But I have not lost my incentive to fix the mess so it doesn't happen to others in the future. Prime Minister Turnbull says Australians need to become more innovative. I would say innovation raises a flag to attract large corporations to attack the innovator of a great idea, so let's fix that first. My inaugural question in the Senate on 12 September this year was to the honourable the Attorney-General and concerned the inconsistencies and unconstitutional behaviour of our courts. I have started in this place as I mean to go on, with my inaugural question aiming right at the middle stump on constitutional issues. That question was unprecedented and referred to the High Court rules review committee. It is on notice that Dennis Lillee wasn't the only best bowler to come out of Western Australia. The hunted has now become the hunter. Australia is not running on all cylinders and it is desperately in need of a tune up, to simply put the blue flame out and put it into overdrive. This will be done with the support of my team in Western Australia and those of my colleagues who are prepared to put the best interests of this country first. During tough times, my family always stood firmly by me and reminded me that fail means First Attempt In Learning. One man's fortune is another man's misfortune. I have experienced highs and lows in business, but Australians are fighters, and the attitude that has built this nation is to 'never give up'. The reality for Australians today, however, is that the fight is not being carried out on a level playing field. It isn't a fair go, and the battle is too often against our own governments and those who purport to uphold the laws. For too long in this place, successive governments have defied the Constitution our nation was founded on, and in doing so have ignored their duty of care to the people of Australia. Australians—not a global government pushing UN dictates which undermine our sovereignty—are the defenders and upholders of the Constitution and our laws. It is long past time for an Ausexit from the UN and removal of all its shackles. Agenda 21 demands, such as deregulating or removing the laws that have provided ethical guidance for foreign corporations in this country, have been responsible for the attitudes we see in our banking institutions, such as 'Can do' or 'We live in your world', when dealing with their clients, as recent inquiries have exposed, and are still being ignored by this government. The reason why the Australian people want a royal commission is the very reason banks don't. It should not be about going to our government and asking for a royal commission; it should be the people's right to demand one. A parliament is not acting in the best interest of the Australian people if it doesn't listen. A royal commission or a re-constituted grand jury is inevitable and it will happen. Justice demands it. In the words of Martin Luther King Junior, 'The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.' Background: I am a fourth-generation farmer from the upper Great Southern region of Western Australia I attended both primary and secondary schools in Narrogin. While I may have got up to a little bit of mischief as a child, I always defended others against bullies and stood up for what I believed was right. I defended my principles. At the time I started my career in the wool industry Australia was riding on the sheep's back. The wool industry was large, prosperous and well regulated, protecting both the industry and its consumers against poor quality product and exploitation of its farmers and communities. I ventured into that industry, trading on futures and buying the Australian wool clip. In 1981, I started working at my father's business in Narrogin and surrounding districts, where I was one of 21 employees in his 35-year-old wool-buying business. Yet through privatisation that level of competition was removed. In fact, it has become extinct. Growers now carry the risk and are considered captive to current markets. The term privatisation, itself, is just a con. The reality is that foreign corporations are the beneficiaries of our tax laws and our lack of regulatory structures. My father's business was on fire until January 1991, when the Australian government announced the suspension and later the abandonment of the wool reserve price. The primary industry minister back then, John Kerin, on 11 February 1991 made announcements which would change the wool industry forever. After being suspended for almost six months the price fell from 870 cents a kilogram clean to 700 cents a kilogram clean. The wool industry had stalled until, through government intervention, it fell further, from 700 to 430 cents a kilogram clean. In other words, another commodity stabilisation scheme had failed, leaving the Australian industry with a stockpile of 4.6 million bales of wool and close to one year's normal production, and a debt of $2.7 billion. A national disaster was the result. It was the biggest economic collapse in this nation's history and, like the recent beef and dairy industry disasters, it was also created by inappropriate government policy. This period still haunts me today because, like others in the industry, my father's business was dealt a lethal blow. The government then took considerable time to press the reset button, which started the demise of a magnificent Australian industry. Private buying would never perform to that standard again. Government intervention further caused the collapse of the price and also destroyed the livelihoods of producers, traders and decimated rural communities. Our stock was worthless, although growers were granted a supplemental scheme and did not feel the immediate impact at the time; however, my father's business did not qualify for such compensation. As a result, the national wool industry finished overnight. The government was not finished with the industry however, and ordered 20 million sheep to be culled. The sheep were gassed and shot en masse as a result. I remember going to a farm to look at a clip I purchased in Kulin—one on the back—and I thought the main power had failed, as the grower had the generator going. I found that the petrol motor running was being used as an improvised gassing plant. The farmers were running sheep into the back of semi tippers, rolling the tarps over the top, shutting the back tailgates and gassing the young sheep to death—under instructions from the then government! I vomited over the fence, as a lot of the sheep appeared to be still clinging on to life. I saw numerous stray sheep in bush reserves, and many pits dug around the region to dispose of such sheep carcasses. These memories still haunt me today and I can still recall the smell of Phostoxin in the air. Like then, a national disaster was caused by implementing poor political decisions, made in ignorance, without appropriate research, by politicians who simply refused to go out to the coalface to learn the consequences of their actions or to rectify their initial errors. When it was clear the government policy had failed, where was Plan B? These ongoing and systemic policy failures by governments have accelerated the degradation of rural families and communities, including beef, dairy and sugar. That has seen the decline of rural communities across Australia. Rural Australia runs on passion and commitment. Agriculture runs on hope and faith, and builds the true-blue Australian character that has built this nation—a character that may soon become extinct. Had the Nationals and other major parties been doing their jobs for farming families and their communities today through proper representation, our farming industries would still be vibrant. The sad reality is that too many rural families feel shunned by their own communities, ashamed to speak out about the unconscionable treatment by the banks, lawyers, receivers, auctioneers and their agents. They feel there is nowhere to turn, and then find that the very politicians who enacted the inept policy decisions that caused the collapse of their businesses are just as quick to refuse help to farming families, and continuously accept large donations from the foreign banking corporations entrenched in this travesty of justice. The Nationals believe that farmers need access to more debt: another band-aid solution. This could not be further from the truth. Farmers do not need more debt. They do need a rural bank that will work with them, without making adjustments to property values based on one year's weather events or on knee-jerk decisions of government. Farmers' biggest risks once focused on hopes of getting 'plenty of rain to produce plenty of grain'. Now our farmers are paid a price that has no bearing on the costs of production, quality controls or even the retail market prices. With foreign corporate retailers dictating market prices as well as farmgate prices, our farming families are denied any market control or voice. Every year they are locked into a system that extracts more and more from them, and does the same at the consumer end of the market. Before deregulation, Australia had the lowest grocery prices in the developed world and a quality second to none. Post-deregulation, however, Australia's consumers now pay the highest grocery prices in the developed world, with much of the food on offer imported and devoid of the quality and safety controls that our own farmers meet on their world-class products. The foreign-corporate middlemen extract higher and higher profits at the expense of both farmers and Australian consumers. That must end. Australian farming families and consumers deserve the benefits of their nation's own quality produce. While the ANZ Bank, as agents to the rural program, proceeded to destroy farmers across the country, I contacted Terry Redman, the leader of the National Party and Minister for Lands and the single shareholder. Terry Redman and his National Party colleagues turned their backs, not only on me but on all farmers, and did absolutely nothing, allowing properties like Yakka Munga and my farm to be stolen by the ANZ bank, aided by a corrupt court system. ANZ Bank and their lawyers sold the Webb-Smiths' property to Burra Energy, a large fracking company. They later ignored further written advice and approved the sale to the Chinese, despite the property having been taken without court orders. The fracking site is only 44 kilometres from a freshwater reservoir near Roebuck Bay, which is located near Broome in Western Australia. How can any responsible government consider that acceptable—environmentally, socially or economically? The reason that the foreign investors want to buy our land is the very reason why we should not be selling it. It is clear that our governments, through the UN, are supporting a world government that will strip sovereignty, and ensure international—not national—ownership of farms by transnational agribusiness corporations, branded TNCs, and global investor partnerships. This will result in more imports for local consumption throughout our domestic markets, and further destruction of our primary industries and the national economy. We as Australians must remember the sacrifices of current and past Diggers; sacrifices made for all Australians and for all that this nation represents and values. Before we take the word of a major political party who receives large donations across the board from the big end of town, the foreign banks, the duopoly retailers and others and then just accepts their decision, we must be mindful of the consequences of their treacherous betrayal of our freedoms, our heritage and our constitutional rights. We, too, owe a debt of gratitude to those who have gone before. We, too, have sacrifices that we must make to guard and uphold the freedoms passed from generations long gone. When the government committed Australians to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the G20, despite vehement opposition across the country, did they ever, ever, ever discuss the terms and conditions with the Australian people? Did the government take the proposal to a referendum, as demanded under the Constitution? No, they did not. It appears that all major parties live in hope that the Australian people will abandon their present democracy and their Constitution and let today's politicians formulate a new constitution based on the very imposts they have already forced on the people of this nation in breach of our constitutional rights, and all done without the consent of the Australian people through referendum. When I attended Senate school recently, I was handed a Senate pack which contained a pocket addition of the Australian Constitution, with overviews and notes by the Australian Government Solicitor. Due to certain disgruntled malcontents trying to remove me from the parliamentary 'poker table' through section 44(ii) of the Constitution—challenging my validity to stand here today as a senator under section 9—under Disqualification, I began to read and appreciate just what a powerful document our Constitution really is. It is the foundation document of our nation and clearly constitutes the Commonwealth of Australia. In this document lies the protections and rules that govern our rights and freedoms. Before 1901, Australia was not a nation. From conventions, the Constitution was drafted and was then put to a vote by the people of the colonies, in referendums. On reflection, I was faced with the obvious question: why aren't we teaching our children the Australian Constitution in our schools? By doing so, our children would know their rights and understand and defend the Constitution that underpins our laws and freedoms. How would Australians know what is being taken from them if they were never taught about this great gift they have? As I raised in my inaugural question in this chamber, our courts have side stepped their responsibilities under the Constitution and are currently acting in defiance of the foundation rule of this nation—the Constitution. I stand humbled and honoured to have been elected to this place and make a commitment that I will continue to defend and uphold the Australian Constitution as an elected senator, a One Nation senator, and as part of a team that is destined to grow as the people of Australia come to understand just what successive governments have traded away and then stand with us to reclaim it back. This nation stands at a minute to midnight, and our obligation to future generations is no less than those who have gone before us and were prepared to do for us. When my wife, Ioanna, and I purchased a farm to raise our children in Williams, we wanted them to learn respect and experience the chores required when living on a farm. If our children were disrespectful, they had to pack their own survival kit and go camp outside the front gate of the farm to reflect on their behaviour. It wouldn't take them long to walk back down the driveway and say, 'Dad, I'll mend my ways.' Other than respect, what they learned to appreciate is that grassroots is what reflects the best qualities of life. Instead of discouraging or disparaging the inventiveness and enthusiasm of our youth, our governments should be men and women of vision and inspiration—leaders who can set a standard that provides a model to our youth. This country and its people deserve our very best effort, and our future generations deserve no less. Australia has been blessed with natural resources and attributes that remain the envy of the world. Our governments need to stop telling and to start listening and learning from the mistakes they have already made. Many today are oblivious of the threats to this nation. In 2003 I invented a revolutionary concept that saw me become an industry leader and also a major threat. It attracted attention around the world and dominated domestic markets. The patent was known and trademarked as 'Grain Keg'. This concept allowed my wife and I to set up a fully integrated farming manufacturing and logistics company to take our homegrown products by direct conduit to end-user markets. In simple terms: paddock to plate. Grain Keg was a leader in OHS risk and enabled bulk product to be introduced to existing feed rooms, and it would save thousands of tonnes of landfill. End-user markets were developed further domestically and right around the world. In 2009 both Landmark and PCL, my financier, and Mitavite competed for the exclusivity of the Grain Keg Concept. I went with Mitavite and joined forces with the general manager, Graeme Dillon, and national sales manager, Colin Price. But the venture failed due to inconsistent products, which caused major palatable concerns, despite multiple warnings. Mitavite clearly pigeonholed the concept through exclusivity and encouraged paten trolls through Mitavite agents Dean Holzer, Peter Walsh and Jack Vivers to infringe all copyrights to my invention. I will reiterate: I have now become the hunter. I went back to manufacturing our products through a new site developed in Guyra, New South Wales, and continued on with the servicing rights on the Grain Keg system. During this time, we were unaware that the Australian Wheat Board was self-destructing due to its involvement in the 'oil for food' scandal and was facing litigation of $1.8 billion from international grower groups. They had about as much as chance of flying as a grand piano falling out of a window of a 10-storey building. It was during this period of March 2009 when we purchased another farm. Like others, we were unaware that the AWB could not carry out funding past six months. Yet, many farmers were given an interest-only loan at the time for 22 years. Roland Andrew Davis, better known as the 'toe cutter' at ANZ, stated that the only way growers could get a payout figure was to sign a new ANZ Bank letter of offer—a formality of switching from 'green to blue' and all terms and conditions would remain unchanged 'until your next review'. The majority of farmers just simply signed over to the ANZ Bank, and before the ink was dry they were forced to pay sums of up to $6 million within weeks. Mr President, I wish to put you on notice that farmers don't have a general mortgage; they have a joint venture—meaning, at best, a lender will only lend you 50 to 60 per cent, so the other 40 per cent is the farmer's skin in the game. That is his equity. Roland Andrew Davis also forced farmers to increase their personal injury and their death cover. When ANZ approached me to sign over to the ANZ they wanted all fixed and floating charges over the intellectual property, which was a new condition to the loan. I was the only farmer, as I did not sign. It was clear that both the ANZ bank and Rabobank were the main external funders and all the hedge providers that provided the money for the rural program, and Landmark, simply sat there as a Trojan Horse. The ANZ bank took it upon themselves to create new bank accounts that were foreign to my company and, upon completion, immediately defaulted my companies. This literally blew the tail feathers clean out of the backside of not only my own companies but also many other farmers around the country, and we had to flap like hell to keep elevated. However, some could not. Some hit the deck. In attempts to avoid the ANZ bank taking down farmers, we literally stood up and took them head-on. The downside of the ANZ action was that it clearly put blood in the water, which invited other companies to also attack and go after my intellectual property in the Australian Keg Company. The company was forced to fend off a patent action where the quote from the lawyers exceeded $914,000. I was forced to go to the UK to sell the licence in Britain through Dodson & Horrell. Although they wanted it, it was hindered because, as an inventor, I could not guarantee the outcome of the patent challenge on one of the companies that held it that was currently before the courts; hence we had to fund this attack ourselves. And guess what? We won. Upon my return, we were to appear before a registrar in the Supreme Court of Western Australia. We did not understand the ANZ had become an introduced virus infecting our businesses. It had taken over by stealth, as it had with many other farmers. Permanent Custodians Ltd was my true lender. On 28 May 2013—a date of infamy for this nation's courts—my wife and I appeared in the Western Australian Supreme Court before Registrar Whitbread, who denied us both the right to speak and awarded our farm, along with our life's work and assets, to be handed to Permanent Custodians Ltd, and Landmark as well. Registrar Whitbread could have simply said, 'Mr and Mrs Culleton, this action is about you losing both your family farms and businesses, so I will grant a short adjournment for you to go down to the registry and fill out a form 6 to enable you to enter an appearance.' Registrar Whitbread chose not to clarify our situation to us, despite her being aware that both my wife and I were clearly inexperienced in court and court deficit. I learnt that day that the real law is called common sense law. Under that rule you only have three days to appeal. This rule 62 rule 4(a) is a guillotine order, which the Western Australian Supreme Court proudly does not allow to have set aside. On that day the Western Australia Supreme Court had proudly shut its doors on my, my wife's and my children's inheritance. Through these actions of our state courts, I have come across people with severe mental and physical health issues. This includes people who have attempted self-harm and suicide. I have witnessed this on the frontline around Australia. In a meeting at Winton in Queensland with Bob Katter and Alan Jones, I gained an understanding of how many victims the ANZ bank had claimed Australia wide. The disturbing reality was that this was grossly wrong, and I was determined to stand up and fight, protecting not only my own interests but also many others who did not feel they had the strength or the knowledge to fight. I grounded my fleet, including my logistics company and the east coast milling enterprise. I heard a very good analogy yesterday, a Monty Python analogy, come out of the chamber. I would like to apply my own Monty Python analogy in the chamber today: 'It's only a flesh wound. Come on, I'll fight you, you bastards.' And fight we have! Since Winton we have been able to keep many farmers on their properties, to keep producing and providing wealth for our economy. We have also been able to withstand the full assault of receivers, who were supported by multiple armed police officers and SWAT teams who held us at gunpoint, openly threatening farm owners as the receivers came to properties to evict us farmers. These illegal actions—I have just got to use a bit of choke here guys; I am running a bit rich—were exposed nationally on the *60 Minutes* program in April 2015. Those same police officers have alleged that the receiver's car was stolen, even though they had the key and were filmed locking the vehicle before they left. At my property in Guyra, while protecting my assets and myself from attack by a cranky tow truck driver, a single tow truck key valued at $7.50—that is what I valued it at—was deemed stolen, and is resulting in further court action. However, the truth will come out. And a warning: what I have to say next may be a little bit distressing. If I had to choose between being publicly disgraced by the media or removing a loaded gun away from a boy's hand, I would choose the first option again and again. I would rather be humiliated than risk losing another life. I can deal with that; he should not have to. During this experience I have witnessed cases where receivers have violated farmer's wives, children's mothers, and have forged signatures. As a result, growers have had in excess of $15 million worth of cattle removed from their properties and not one cent has gone off their debt to the bank. And yet they are still paying the loans. The cattle have been stolen by the banks' agents. One had the audacity to send the freight bill back to the farmer! It is this arrogance that is pushing people over the edge. I have also spoken to a number of people wanting to take their own lives. A grower, watching this speech up there right now in the public gallery, tried to end it all by tipping 20 litres of petrol on himself and walking into an open fire, all because of the ANZ bank. He was in a coma for six months. And what about Jimmy Wayland's son who shot himself with a .222 in his first year home on the farm? Rabobank, this must end! The Waylands had to leave their son on a driveway of a farm for two days with a sheet over him until the coroner got there. These growers were never a distressed asset and had perfect farming operations—as I did—but the government came in and shut down their live cattle trade and left them easy prey for the banks. Just the same as they did to the wool industry in the nineties. During the last week's banking inquiry held by Mr Turnbull—which we all call the 'banker's belly scratch'—I was sent a note from a lady who was fighting with Rabobank. It was a suicide letter, because, after watching the news on the pathetic inquiry, she had given up all hope. So while the bankers were saying sorry, I say sorry does not cut it. Bank advertising needs to have warning signs like 24 cigarette packets do: 'If you take out this loan, be warned it could have health implications or cause death'. Despite all the multiple warnings in my own case, all company assets which had no relationship with the land, were taken by my purported buyers, Graham Arthur Harding, and Matthew and Jesse Ford were put on notice that the properties 'to be bought' by them were not for sale. They were also put on notice that the farms contained assets of other companies that had no relationship with ANZ Bank or PCL. Despite these multiple warnings, they pushed ahead, conferring with ANZ Bank and continued to proceed with the purchase. The ANZ Bank sold the properties, 'walk in, walk out' on instructions of VNW real estate, Steve Vaughan and Hugh Ness. They sold a magnificent asset for one tenth the price—including, 2,000 tonnes of grain stock worth well over a $1.2 million dollars. So they got it for nothing—and all the family furniture and belongings, which included our children's sports medallions. The ANZ Bank had acted unlawfully not only to us, but to a large number of growers around the country. We have yet to have our clearing sale. It was said that over 4,000 farmers had been sent to the wall by ANZ Bank. It was the biggest assets-for-Asia grab in this nation's history. ANZ Bank and the other major banks, including Rabobank, have clearly performed financial terrorism on the people of this country and they will be held to account. A royal commission or a grand jury will happen. I appeared on *60 Minutes* to show Australia what was happening to our farmers around Australia. The old saying, 'A picture speaks a thousand words', worked. This can be viewed on my website and my Facebook page and I urge all Australians to revisit it. It is called 'Farmers fighting back'. You will see that the ANZ Bank's receiver agents were clearly caught on camera in the kitchen of Bruce Dixon's farm, saying, 'We're not here to head-bash you,' and 'We can get the tactical response group in to remove farmers'. My proud son filmed that exchange and saved not only Bruce's 26 farms but many farmers and small businesses around Australia. We also saved his life. Yes, it is true that over 40 police officers attended the Dixon farm. We were told: 'ANZ Bank is now in possession. You have only days to remove your items and equipment'. Who can do that in a farming operation? As a result, this clearly did not happen. That day reverberated a message to the banking industry right around Australia and there have been many beneficiaries from our actions in that program. Our farmers have been given their properties back. What bank goes around spending shareholders' money repaying all their bills, paying out their local accounts and giving their properties back and saying, 'Gee, I made a mistake.' The police locked the receiver's car and left with the keys, which was all recorded on national TV that day. I have since been personally charged with stealing a motorcar that the receivers left behind at Bruce Dixon's that day. Twenty-two police officers have been called before the Western Australian Magistrates Court to give evidence against me. I still scratch my head and wonder how I got past so many cops that day. It has only just dawned upon me how talented I must be. We need to keep things simple, respect others and activate our personal powers and tell the courts to smarten up. Family Courts, in which the legal vultures are feasting on the carcasses of the marriage vows, are treated as a joke, and this court needs to be reviewed now. We say 'don't drink and drive' because every life is worth saving, yet our Family Courts are driving 27 young healthy Australians every week to suicide. It is the solicitors' fees and potential trauma that is the very reason they do not want marriage reconciliation. I am about to wind up. You have now been made aware of this as the custodians of these people. In fact, they may have voted for you. They, through their vote, entrusted you to act in their best interest. I, along with One Nation, want a moratorium to be placed immediately on the Family Court and not another life to be lost. You are here for the Australian people, not for the corporations. Many ask: 'We have a constitution? What's that about?' These questions are feedback from a large sample of the Australian population and I was one of them until Senate school. The penny dropped. We all need to be aware of what we have, because, if we are not, we will never know if someone is stealing it or taking it off us. This puts in doubt whether the shaping of Australia is in the best interests of the Australian population. An ignorant population is one that is easily manipulated by the use of lies, by omission and with false statements and promises. Trust in our country has eroded. Life does not have to be this tough for the Australian people. Like farming, you only get a small window of opportunity. My vision for Australia is to give Australians a future. This can be done very simply by having governments and laws adhering to the Constitution. From the Constitution, the people's gift, we can invoke or revoke, correct and reform and re-establish. We can raise capital back through our primary industries, and by doing so we will sporn opportunities to rehabilitate manufacturing back on our shores. The PRESIDENT: Senator Culleton, Senator CULLETON: <http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F266482%22;querytype=;rec=0>I am nearly there. I am nearly there. Trust me. The PRESIDENT: You need to be nearly there. Senator CULLETON: <http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F266482%22;querytype=;rec=0>Other nations are envious of what we have. It is clearly God's land. I would like to see government-backed banks, a reintroduction of co-ops—and build a society that values and cares for the most vulnerable. To conclude, if the judges do not respect law, how then can they establish law and order? If the Constitution is the grand express motorway, why would you take the road full of potholes and road works? Yet this is what our lawyers are doing. Does no-one care? People's hard-earned life assets are just stripped and the courts are the ones that drag out cases for years and make people homeless. I can say from my own experience: you would not want to break down in the desert with only one water bottle with a lawyer. I stand in this chamber with respect for all those who share this responsibility and privilege as senators—and I do respect you all, Senators. I challenge each and every one to remember section 51 of the Constitution, which states that the parliament exists 'to make laws for peace, order and good government'. I put Australia and this chamber on notice. It is time those elected to the Senate did exactly that. There is an answer and a simple fix: bring back the Constitution and bring back our real laws. To end, I want to say thank you to my biggest supporters: my incredible wife—just a bit more choke here guys—Ioanna; my sons, who have been galvanised heroes, James and William; and my beautiful daughter, Abbey. Without your support, I would not be standing here today. I said I would go in and fight for us and others as long as I did not lose the respect of my children and you have supported me right through. You are all my heroes. I would not be the man I am today if it was not for the love that you have shown towards me. I am a proud father, brother, husband and son. To Ron and Leslie, who are watching me now and who I am very proud of, I love you dearly. And for all the farmers: I said I would come here and when I made it simply say: and well may we say God save the Queen, because nothing will save these bankers! Thank you.
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:50:58 +1100 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
It is rare that any politician gets a standing ovation.
He's a politician. A murderous thief at best, and should be dealt with accordingly. And a quick look at that rant shows that he wants the agricultural mafia to be 'regulated' in the 'right' way, a way which benefits his buddies of course.
Here is one:
Subject: Fwd: RE: Inspirational - Senator Culleton's
says he's a 'farmer' - no, he's a politician.
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 09:25:52PM -0300, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:50:58 +1100 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
It is rare that any politician gets a standing ovation.
He's a politician. A murderous thief at best,
This is the first time this man has ever been in parliament. One Nation party is renegade, at least from the establishment perspective, and so them getting 4 seats in the senate is a fair shift - they may well hold the balance of power on many issues. Previously when Pauline Hanson (founder of One Nation) looked like she would storm the senate with a number of seats, a retrospective law was brought in - by both of the two "lame stream" parties, to stop her - and they did so retrospectively, putting her in jail because her fledgling One Nation party had only 700 members, and the new minimum was 900 or so, and this was a jailable offence. They achieved their unlawful, illegal, despotic and anti-democratic goal by putting her in jail (stopping her from being elected). Now, many years later, she's back. And this time, they have 4 seats - Pauline is one of them, and this ex-farmer guy is another. If you read his speech, you will see that, at least at this early hour (his maiden speech), he is not "a politician" in the depressing general conception of what that means. So for us Aussies, this is actually really good stuff - the possibility of just a little bit of something sort of resembling representation of constituents might be seen over the next few years. Yes it's a slim hope, but I do hope. There's a saying "those who don't involve themselves in politics are destined to be ruled over by those who do" - forgot the attribution right now sorry. When a farmer is elected for the first time, yes, he is then a politician. And yes, we have nothing like a representative democracy, let alone something representing ongoingly the actual will of the people (direct democracy). Yes our system needs some fundamental overhauls (pathways to start from scratch risks chaos, which I personally prefer to avoid).
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 12:25:14 +1100 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
If you read his speech, you will see that, at least at this early hour (his maiden speech), he is not "a politician"
I read enough to find out what he claims to believe about the state and economic activities. He's the typical intervionist saying that 'good' government is needed to 'regulate' businesses. When in reality, of course, businesses and government are sides of the same corrupt coin. I'm not going to bother researching what the australian government did to sheep farmers in the 80s. Part of what he says may be true. And if it's true then that would be an even bigger reason to get rid of government, not to allegedly try to 'reform' it. He is part of the problem, not the solution. Like any other poliician he will serve himself and those who finance him.
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:06:07PM -0300, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 12:25:14 +1100 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
If you read his speech, you will see that, at least at this early hour (his maiden speech), he is not "a politician"
I read enough to find out what he claims to believe about the state and economic activities. He's the typical intervionist saying that 'good' government is needed to 'regulate' businesses. When in reality, of course, businesses and government are sides of the same corrupt coin.
Fair enough.
I'm not going to bother researching what the australian government did to sheep farmers in the 80s. Part of what he says may be true. And if it's true then that would be an even bigger reason to get rid of government, not to allegedly try to 'reform' it.
True.
He is part of the problem, not the solution. Like any other poliician he will serve himself and those who finance him.
There is no flow chart for such humans to refer to, describing rational solutions to their real and historical problems. Like that "are we having a rational conversation/ debate" flowchart. How about reforming the "modern" "democratic" state with direct democracy - Swiss style ?
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 06:04:34PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
How about reforming the "modern" "democratic" state with direct democracy - Swiss style ?
Doesn't work: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Schweizer-erlauben-Geheimdienst-umfan... (german only, sorry). In a referendum swiss citizens agreed to the latest surveilance law (NDG). According to the new law NDB (swiss intelligence service) will be allowed to: - open letters - intercept phone calls - intercept sms - install bug devices in apparments - install troyans on computers and mobiles - apply gps trackers to vehicles - live-search of communications like mail or chat - interrupt & attack networks (domestic and foreign) - store all collected data for 6 months - companies are obliged to comply with surveillance requests - no more protection of lawers or journalists - and a lot more 65% of voters agreed with the law. Tom.
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:50:48 +0200 Tom <tom@vondein.org> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 06:04:34PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
How about reforming the "modern" "democratic" state with direct democracy - Swiss style ?
Doesn't work: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Schweizer-erlauben-Geheimdienst-umfan...
(german only, sorry).
In a referendum swiss citizens agreed to the latest surveilance law (NDG). According to the new law NDB (swiss intelligence service) will be allowed to:
- open letters - intercept phone calls - intercept sms - install bug devices in apparments - install troyans on computers and mobiles - apply gps trackers to vehicles - live-search of communications like mail or chat - interrupt & attack networks (domestic and foreign) - store all collected data for 6 months - companies are obliged to comply with surveillance requests - no more protection of lawers or journalists - and a lot more
65% of voters agreed with the law.
Thanks! I had missed that one. I was about to comment that sometimes they voted for the right thing (voted against copyright in 1866 I believe), but sometimes didn't. Most of the results don't look too good I'm afraid.
Tom.
Thank you very much, Zen! This is very inspiring to see politicians like this one. Of course, he is still a politician... he is still part of this fucked up system, BUT ... there is BUT. And he is this "BUT". With politicians like Rod Culleton, there is still HOPE. Small and faint... but hope. 2016-10-14 2:50 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net>:
It is rare that any politician gets a standing ovation.
Here is one:
Subject: Fwd: RE: Inspirational - Senator Culleton's Passionate Maiden Senate Speech gets Standing Ovation - YouTube
*WHAT AN INSPIRATIONAL SPEECH*
Date: Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 7:16 PM Subject: Fwd: RE: Inspirational - Senator Culleton's Passionate Maiden Senate Speech gets Standing Ovation - YouTube
It's been a very long time since we've had a politician in Parliament with the sort of passion for Australia that Rod Culleton demonstrated yesterday. Be prepared to be moved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pbt7cQ_bkE
I ask that you forward, share, like, tweet and generally spread this clip as far and wide as you can because every Australian needs the opportunity to be inspired by what our Senator Culleton said yesterday.
Senator CULLETON <http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/ display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F266482%22;querytype=;rec=0> (Western Australia) (17:20): I stand here in this chamber today to present my inaugural speech on oath, to deliver my message to the Australian people. What follows will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth before almighty God and the people of Australia.
To senators, veterans, Indigenous elders of this great land and all Australians, Pauline quoted 'I'm back!' My quote is: 'I'm here! Despite all attempts to silence the WA voters' choice, I am here—bright-eyed and bushy-tailed—despite all attempts to deflate my tyres on the drive over from Western Australia.' As one would know, a good farmer always keeps a good puncture kit handy in the ashtray of the ute and a good toolbox in the back. It is true it can be hard to pull up a cocky.
Just reiterating a few housekeeping rules: it appears that during other speeches certain members are leaving the field before the final siren goes, so if any senator wants to leave now is as good a time as any.
I pay tribute to my party leader Pauline Hanson, the PH in One Nation. A good PH balance will grow a healthy Australia, and this 'hung parliament' promises to do exactly that. Being a Nationals voter for 35 years, I am honoured to be a One Nation senator representing my constituents in WA. With the support of my fellow senators Malcolm Roberts, Brian Burston and, again, Pauline Hanson, One Nation is the awesome foursome. We will be your voice in the Senate. We will work with other crossbench senators and both sides of the chamber to ensure Australia is heard and effectively represented.
On my first day of parliament I witnessed members singing out of the same hymn book in St Andrew's cathedral in Canberra. This now needs to be mirrored in both chambers in the Australian parliament. As a farmer, it is true, the only audience I have had to address up until now has simply been a mob of sheep in the yards. If I sound a little rough, rest assured I will apply a little bit of choke until I get up to running temperature.
I want my actions in this place to reflect my own personal experiences, and having been locked in a financial crocodile roll for the last six years with people trying to steal my intellectual property, I have lost all incentive to invent anything again. But I have not lost my incentive to fix the mess so it doesn't happen to others in the future. Prime Minister Turnbull says Australians need to become more innovative. I would say innovation raises a flag to attract large corporations to attack the innovator of a great idea, so let's fix that first.
My inaugural question in the Senate on 12 September this year was to the honourable the Attorney-General and concerned the inconsistencies and unconstitutional behaviour of our courts. I have started in this place as I mean to go on, with my inaugural question aiming right at the middle stump on constitutional issues. That question was unprecedented and referred to the High Court rules review committee. It is on notice that Dennis Lillee wasn't the only best bowler to come out of Western Australia.
The hunted has now become the hunter. Australia is not running on all cylinders and it is desperately in need of a tune up, to simply put the blue flame out and put it into overdrive. This will be done with the support of my team in Western Australia and those of my colleagues who are prepared to put the best interests of this country first. During tough times, my family always stood firmly by me and reminded me that fail means First Attempt In Learning.
One man's fortune is another man's misfortune. I have experienced highs and lows in business, but Australians are fighters, and the attitude that has built this nation is to 'never give up'. The reality for Australians today, however, is that the fight is not being carried out on a level playing field. It isn't a fair go, and the battle is too often against our own governments and those who purport to uphold the laws. For too long in this place, successive governments have defied the Constitution our nation was founded on, and in doing so have ignored their duty of care to the people of Australia. Australians—not a global government pushing UN dictates which undermine our sovereignty—are the defenders and upholders of the Constitution and our laws. It is long past time for an Ausexit from the UN and removal of all its shackles.
Agenda 21 demands, such as deregulating or removing the laws that have provided ethical guidance for foreign corporations in this country, have been responsible for the attitudes we see in our banking institutions, such as 'Can do' or 'We live in your world', when dealing with their clients, as recent inquiries have exposed, and are still being ignored by this government. The reason why the Australian people want a royal commission is the very reason banks don't. It should not be about going to our government and asking for a royal commission; it should be the people's right to demand one.
A parliament is not acting in the best interest of the Australian people if it doesn't listen. A royal commission or a re-constituted grand jury is inevitable and it will happen. Justice demands it. In the words of Martin Luther King Junior, 'The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.'
Background: I am a fourth-generation farmer from the upper Great Southern region of Western Australia I attended both primary and secondary schools in Narrogin. While I may have got up to a little bit of mischief as a child, I always defended others against bullies and stood up for what I believed was right. I defended my principles. At the time I started my career in the wool industry Australia was riding on the sheep's back. The wool industry was large, prosperous and well regulated, protecting both the industry and its consumers against poor quality product and exploitation of its farmers and communities. I ventured into that industry, trading on futures and buying the Australian wool clip.
In 1981, I started working at my father's business in Narrogin and surrounding districts, where I was one of 21 employees in his 35-year-old wool-buying business. Yet through privatisation that level of competition was removed. In fact, it has become extinct. Growers now carry the risk and are considered captive to current markets. The term privatisation, itself, is just a con. The reality is that foreign corporations are the beneficiaries of our tax laws and our lack of regulatory structures.
My father's business was on fire until January 1991, when the Australian government announced the suspension and later the abandonment of the wool reserve price. The primary industry minister back then, John Kerin, on 11 February 1991 made announcements which would change the wool industry forever. After being suspended for almost six months the price fell from 870 cents a kilogram clean to 700 cents a kilogram clean. The wool industry had stalled until, through government intervention, it fell further, from 700 to 430 cents a kilogram clean. In other words, another commodity stabilisation scheme had failed, leaving the Australian industry with a stockpile of 4.6 million bales of wool and close to one year's normal production, and a debt of $2.7 billion. A national disaster was the result. It was the biggest economic collapse in this nation's history and, like the recent beef and dairy industry disasters, it was also created by inappropriate government policy.
This period still haunts me today because, like others in the industry, my father's business was dealt a lethal blow. The government then took considerable time to press the reset button, which started the demise of a magnificent Australian industry. Private buying would never perform to that standard again. Government intervention further caused the collapse of the price and also destroyed the livelihoods of producers, traders and decimated rural communities. Our stock was worthless, although growers were granted a supplemental scheme and did not feel the immediate impact at the time; however, my father's business did not qualify for such compensation. As a result, the national wool industry finished overnight. The government was not finished with the industry however, and ordered 20 million sheep to be culled. The sheep were gassed and shot en masse as a result. I remember going to a farm to look at a clip I purchased in Kulin—one on the back—and I thought the main power had failed, as the grower had the generator going. I found that the petrol motor running was being used as an improvised gassing plant. The farmers were running sheep into the back of semi tippers, rolling the tarps over the top, shutting the back tailgates and gassing the young sheep to death—under instructions from the then government! I vomited over the fence, as a lot of the sheep appeared to be still clinging on to life. I saw numerous stray sheep in bush reserves, and many pits dug around the region to dispose of such sheep carcasses. These memories still haunt me today and I can still recall the smell of Phostoxin in the air.
Like then, a national disaster was caused by implementing poor political decisions, made in ignorance, without appropriate research, by politicians who simply refused to go out to the coalface to learn the consequences of their actions or to rectify their initial errors. When it was clear the government policy had failed, where was Plan B? These ongoing and systemic policy failures by governments have accelerated the degradation of rural families and communities, including beef, dairy and sugar. That has seen the decline of rural communities across Australia. Rural Australia runs on passion and commitment. Agriculture runs on hope and faith, and builds the true-blue Australian character that has built this nation—a character that may soon become extinct.
Had the Nationals and other major parties been doing their jobs for farming families and their communities today through proper representation, our farming industries would still be vibrant. The sad reality is that too many rural families feel shunned by their own communities, ashamed to speak out about the unconscionable treatment by the banks, lawyers, receivers, auctioneers and their agents. They feel there is nowhere to turn, and then find that the very politicians who enacted the inept policy decisions that caused the collapse of their businesses are just as quick to refuse help to farming families, and continuously accept large donations from the foreign banking corporations entrenched in this travesty of justice. The Nationals believe that farmers need access to more debt: another band-aid solution. This could not be further from the truth.
Farmers do not need more debt. They do need a rural bank that will work with them, without making adjustments to property values based on one year's weather events or on knee-jerk decisions of government. Farmers' biggest risks once focused on hopes of getting 'plenty of rain to produce plenty of grain'. Now our farmers are paid a price that has no bearing on the costs of production, quality controls or even the retail market prices. With foreign corporate retailers dictating market prices as well as farmgate prices, our farming families are denied any market control or voice. Every year they are locked into a system that extracts more and more from them, and does the same at the consumer end of the market.
Before deregulation, Australia had the lowest grocery prices in the developed world and a quality second to none. Post-deregulation, however, Australia's consumers now pay the highest grocery prices in the developed world, with much of the food on offer imported and devoid of the quality and safety controls that our own farmers meet on their world-class products. The foreign-corporate middlemen extract higher and higher profits at the expense of both farmers and Australian consumers. That must end. Australian farming families and consumers deserve the benefits of their nation's own quality produce.
While the ANZ Bank, as agents to the rural program, proceeded to destroy farmers across the country, I contacted Terry Redman, the leader of the National Party and Minister for Lands and the single shareholder. Terry Redman and his National Party colleagues turned their backs, not only on me but on all farmers, and did absolutely nothing, allowing properties like Yakka Munga and my farm to be stolen by the ANZ bank, aided by a corrupt court system. ANZ Bank and their lawyers sold the Webb-Smiths' property to Burra Energy, a large fracking company. They later ignored further written advice and approved the sale to the Chinese, despite the property having been taken without court orders. The fracking site is only 44 kilometres from a freshwater reservoir near Roebuck Bay, which is located near Broome in Western Australia. How can any responsible government consider that acceptable—environmentally, socially or economically?
The reason that the foreign investors want to buy our land is the very reason why we should not be selling it. It is clear that our governments, through the UN, are supporting a world government that will strip sovereignty, and ensure international—not national—ownership of farms by transnational agribusiness corporations, branded TNCs, and global investor partnerships. This will result in more imports for local consumption throughout our domestic markets, and further destruction of our primary industries and the national economy. We as Australians must remember the sacrifices of current and past Diggers; sacrifices made for all Australians and for all that this nation represents and values.
Before we take the word of a major political party who receives large donations across the board from the big end of town, the foreign banks, the duopoly retailers and others and then just accepts their decision, we must be mindful of the consequences of their treacherous betrayal of our freedoms, our heritage and our constitutional rights. We, too, owe a debt of gratitude to those who have gone before. We, too, have sacrifices that we must make to guard and uphold the freedoms passed from generations long gone. When the government committed Australians to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the G20, despite vehement opposition across the country, did they ever, ever, ever discuss the terms and conditions with the Australian people? Did the government take the proposal to a referendum, as demanded under the Constitution? No, they did not. It appears that all major parties live in hope that the Australian people will abandon their present democracy and their Constitution and let today's politicians formulate a new constitution based on the very imposts they have already forced on the people of this nation in breach of our constitutional rights, and all done without the consent of the Australian people through referendum.
When I attended Senate school recently, I was handed a Senate pack which contained a pocket addition of the Australian Constitution, with overviews and notes by the Australian Government Solicitor. Due to certain disgruntled malcontents trying to remove me from the parliamentary 'poker table' through section 44(ii) of the Constitution—challenging my validity to stand here today as a senator under section 9—under Disqualification, I began to read and appreciate just what a powerful document our Constitution really is. It is the foundation document of our nation and clearly constitutes the Commonwealth of Australia. In this document lies the protections and rules that govern our rights and freedoms.
Before 1901, Australia was not a nation. From conventions, the Constitution was drafted and was then put to a vote by the people of the colonies, in referendums. On reflection, I was faced with the obvious question: why aren't we teaching our children the Australian Constitution in our schools? By doing so, our children would know their rights and understand and defend the Constitution that underpins our laws and freedoms. How would Australians know what is being taken from them if they were never taught about this great gift they have? As I raised in my inaugural question in this chamber, our courts have side stepped their responsibilities under the Constitution and are currently acting in defiance of the foundation rule of this nation—the Constitution. I stand humbled and honoured to have been elected to this place and make a commitment that I will continue to defend and uphold the Australian Constitution as an elected senator, a One Nation senator, and as part of a team that is destined to grow as the people of Australia come to understand just what successive governments have traded away and then stand with us to reclaim it back. This nation stands at a minute to midnight, and our obligation to future generations is no less than those who have gone before us and were prepared to do for us.
When my wife, Ioanna, and I purchased a farm to raise our children in Williams, we wanted them to learn respect and experience the chores required when living on a farm. If our children were disrespectful, they had to pack their own survival kit and go camp outside the front gate of the farm to reflect on their behaviour. It wouldn't take them long to walk back down the driveway and say, 'Dad, I'll mend my ways.' Other than respect, what they learned to appreciate is that grassroots is what reflects the best qualities of life. Instead of discouraging or disparaging the inventiveness and enthusiasm of our youth, our governments should be men and women of vision and inspiration—leaders who can set a standard that provides a model to our youth. This country and its people deserve our very best effort, and our future generations deserve no less.
Australia has been blessed with natural resources and attributes that remain the envy of the world. Our governments need to stop telling and to start listening and learning from the mistakes they have already made. Many today are oblivious of the threats to this nation. In 2003 I invented a revolutionary concept that saw me become an industry leader and also a major threat. It attracted attention around the world and dominated domestic markets. The patent was known and trademarked as 'Grain Keg'. This concept allowed my wife and I to set up a fully integrated farming manufacturing and logistics company to take our homegrown products by direct conduit to end-user markets. In simple terms: paddock to plate. Grain Keg was a leader in OHS risk and enabled bulk product to be introduced to existing feed rooms, and it would save thousands of tonnes of landfill. End-user markets were developed further domestically and right around the world.
In 2009 both Landmark and PCL, my financier, and Mitavite competed for the exclusivity of the Grain Keg Concept. I went with Mitavite and joined forces with the general manager, Graeme Dillon, and national sales manager, Colin Price. But the venture failed due to inconsistent products, which caused major palatable concerns, despite multiple warnings. Mitavite clearly pigeonholed the concept through exclusivity and encouraged paten trolls through Mitavite agents Dean Holzer, Peter Walsh and Jack Vivers to infringe all copyrights to my invention. I will reiterate: I have now become the hunter.
I went back to manufacturing our products through a new site developed in Guyra, New South Wales, and continued on with the servicing rights on the Grain Keg system. During this time, we were unaware that the Australian Wheat Board was self-destructing due to its involvement in the 'oil for food' scandal and was facing litigation of $1.8 billion from international grower groups. They had about as much as chance of flying as a grand piano falling out of a window of a 10-storey building. It was during this period of March 2009 when we purchased another farm. Like others, we were unaware that the AWB could not carry out funding past six months. Yet, many farmers were given an interest-only loan at the time for 22 years. Roland Andrew Davis, better known as the 'toe cutter' at ANZ, stated that the only way growers could get a payout figure was to sign a new ANZ Bank letter of offer—a formality of switching from 'green to blue' and all terms and conditions would remain unchanged 'until your next review'. The majority of farmers just simply signed over to the ANZ Bank, and before the ink was dry they were forced to pay sums of up to $6 million within weeks. Mr President, I wish to put you on notice that farmers don't have a general mortgage; they have a joint venture—meaning, at best, a lender will only lend you 50 to 60 per cent, so the other 40 per cent is the farmer's skin in the game. That is his equity.
Roland Andrew Davis also forced farmers to increase their personal injury and their death cover. When ANZ approached me to sign over to the ANZ they wanted all fixed and floating charges over the intellectual property, which was a new condition to the loan. I was the only farmer, as I did not sign. It was clear that both the ANZ bank and Rabobank were the main external funders and all the hedge providers that provided the money for the rural program, and Landmark, simply sat there as a Trojan Horse. The ANZ bank took it upon themselves to create new bank accounts that were foreign to my company and, upon completion, immediately defaulted my companies. This literally blew the tail feathers clean out of the backside of not only my own companies but also many other farmers around the country, and we had to flap like hell to keep elevated. However, some could not. Some hit the deck.
In attempts to avoid the ANZ bank taking down farmers, we literally stood up and took them head-on. The downside of the ANZ action was that it clearly put blood in the water, which invited other companies to also attack and go after my intellectual property in the Australian Keg Company. The company was forced to fend off a patent action where the quote from the lawyers exceeded $914,000. I was forced to go to the UK to sell the licence in Britain through Dodson & Horrell. Although they wanted it, it was hindered because, as an inventor, I could not guarantee the outcome of the patent challenge on one of the companies that held it that was currently before the courts; hence we had to fund this attack ourselves. And guess what? We won.
Upon my return, we were to appear before a registrar in the Supreme Court of Western Australia. We did not understand the ANZ had become an introduced virus infecting our businesses. It had taken over by stealth, as it had with many other farmers. Permanent Custodians Ltd was my true lender. On 28 May 2013—a date of infamy for this nation's courts—my wife and I appeared in the Western Australian Supreme Court before Registrar Whitbread, who denied us both the right to speak and awarded our farm, along with our life's work and assets, to be handed to Permanent Custodians Ltd, and Landmark as well.
Registrar Whitbread could have simply said, 'Mr and Mrs Culleton, this action is about you losing both your family farms and businesses, so I will grant a short adjournment for you to go down to the registry and fill out a form 6 to enable you to enter an appearance.' Registrar Whitbread chose not to clarify our situation to us, despite her being aware that both my wife and I were clearly inexperienced in court and court deficit. I learnt that day that the real law is called common sense law. Under that rule you only have three days to appeal. This rule 62 rule 4(a) is a guillotine order, which the Western Australian Supreme Court proudly does not allow to have set aside. On that day the Western Australia Supreme Court had proudly shut its doors on my, my wife's and my children's inheritance.
Through these actions of our state courts, I have come across people with severe mental and physical health issues. This includes people who have attempted self-harm and suicide. I have witnessed this on the frontline around Australia. In a meeting at Winton in Queensland with Bob Katter and Alan Jones, I gained an understanding of how many victims the ANZ bank had claimed Australia wide. The disturbing reality was that this was grossly wrong, and I was determined to stand up and fight, protecting not only my own interests but also many others who did not feel they had the strength or the knowledge to fight. I grounded my fleet, including my logistics company and the east coast milling enterprise.
I heard a very good analogy yesterday, a Monty Python analogy, come out of the chamber. I would like to apply my own Monty Python analogy in the chamber today: 'It's only a flesh wound. Come on, I'll fight you, you bastards.' And fight we have! Since Winton we have been able to keep many farmers on their properties, to keep producing and providing wealth for our economy. We have also been able to withstand the full assault of receivers, who were supported by multiple armed police officers and SWAT teams who held us at gunpoint, openly threatening farm owners as the receivers came to properties to evict us farmers. These illegal actions—I have just got to use a bit of choke here guys; I am running a bit rich—were exposed nationally on the *60 Minutes* program in April 2015. Those same police officers have alleged that the receiver's car was stolen, even though they had the key and were filmed locking the vehicle before they left.
At my property in Guyra, while protecting my assets and myself from attack by a cranky tow truck driver, a single tow truck key valued at $7.50—that is what I valued it at—was deemed stolen, and is resulting in further court action. However, the truth will come out. And a warning: what I have to say next may be a little bit distressing. If I had to choose between being publicly disgraced by the media or removing a loaded gun away from a boy's hand, I would choose the first option again and again. I would rather be humiliated than risk losing another life. I can deal with that; he should not have to. During this experience I have witnessed cases where receivers have violated farmer's wives, children's mothers, and have forged signatures. As a result, growers have had in excess of $15 million worth of cattle removed from their properties and not one cent has gone off their debt to the bank. And yet they are still paying the loans. The cattle have been stolen by the banks' agents. One had the audacity to send the freight bill back to the farmer! It is this arrogance that is pushing people over the edge.
I have also spoken to a number of people wanting to take their own lives. A grower, watching this speech up there right now in the public gallery, tried to end it all by tipping 20 litres of petrol on himself and walking into an open fire, all because of the ANZ bank. He was in a coma for six months. And what about Jimmy Wayland's son who shot himself with a .222 in his first year home on the farm? Rabobank, this must end! The Waylands had to leave their son on a driveway of a farm for two days with a sheet over him until the coroner got there.
These growers were never a distressed asset and had perfect farming operations—as I did—but the government came in and shut down their live cattle trade and left them easy prey for the banks. Just the same as they did to the wool industry in the nineties.
During the last week's banking inquiry held by Mr Turnbull—which we all call the 'banker's belly scratch'—I was sent a note from a lady who was fighting with Rabobank. It was a suicide letter, because, after watching the news on the pathetic inquiry, she had given up all hope. So while the bankers were saying sorry, I say sorry does not cut it. Bank advertising needs to have warning signs like 24 cigarette packets do: 'If you take out this loan, be warned it could have health implications or cause death'.
Despite all the multiple warnings in my own case, all company assets which had no relationship with the land, were taken by my purported buyers, Graham Arthur Harding, and Matthew and Jesse Ford were put on notice that the properties 'to be bought' by them were not for sale. They were also put on notice that the farms contained assets of other companies that had no relationship with ANZ Bank or PCL. Despite these multiple warnings, they pushed ahead, conferring with ANZ Bank and continued to proceed with the purchase. The ANZ Bank sold the properties, 'walk in, walk out' on instructions of VNW real estate, Steve Vaughan and Hugh Ness.
They sold a magnificent asset for one tenth the price—including, 2,000 tonnes of grain stock worth well over a $1.2 million dollars. So they got it for nothing—and all the family furniture and belongings, which included our children's sports medallions. The ANZ Bank had acted unlawfully not only to us, but to a large number of growers around the country. We have yet to have our clearing sale. It was said that over 4,000 farmers had been sent to the wall by ANZ Bank. It was the biggest assets-for-Asia grab in this nation's history. ANZ Bank and the other major banks, including Rabobank, have clearly performed financial terrorism on the people of this country and they will be held to account.
A royal commission or a grand jury will happen. I appeared on *60 Minutes* to show Australia what was happening to our farmers around Australia. The old saying, 'A picture speaks a thousand words', worked. This can be viewed on my website and my Facebook page and I urge all Australians to revisit it. It is called 'Farmers fighting back'. You will see that the ANZ Bank's receiver agents were clearly caught on camera in the kitchen of Bruce Dixon's farm, saying, 'We're not here to head-bash you,' and 'We can get the tactical response group in to remove farmers'. My proud son filmed that exchange and saved not only Bruce's 26 farms but many farmers and small businesses around Australia. We also saved his life.
Yes, it is true that over 40 police officers attended the Dixon farm. We were told: 'ANZ Bank is now in possession. You have only days to remove your items and equipment'. Who can do that in a farming operation? As a result, this clearly did not happen. That day reverberated a message to the banking industry right around Australia and there have been many beneficiaries from our actions in that program. Our farmers have been given their properties back. What bank goes around spending shareholders' money repaying all their bills, paying out their local accounts and giving their properties back and saying, 'Gee, I made a mistake.'
The police locked the receiver's car and left with the keys, which was all recorded on national TV that day. I have since been personally charged with stealing a motorcar that the receivers left behind at Bruce Dixon's that day. Twenty-two police officers have been called before the Western Australian Magistrates Court to give evidence against me. I still scratch my head and wonder how I got past so many cops that day. It has only just dawned upon me how talented I must be.
We need to keep things simple, respect others and activate our personal powers and tell the courts to smarten up. Family Courts, in which the legal vultures are feasting on the carcasses of the marriage vows, are treated as a joke, and this court needs to be reviewed now. We say 'don't drink and drive' because every life is worth saving, yet our Family Courts are driving 27 young healthy Australians every week to suicide. It is the solicitors' fees and potential trauma that is the very reason they do not want marriage reconciliation.
I am about to wind up. You have now been made aware of this as the custodians of these people. In fact, they may have voted for you. They, through their vote, entrusted you to act in their best interest. I, along with One Nation, want a moratorium to be placed immediately on the Family Court and not another life to be lost.
You are here for the Australian people, not for the corporations. Many ask: 'We have a constitution? What's that about?' These questions are feedback from a large sample of the Australian population and I was one of them until Senate school. The penny dropped. We all need to be aware of what we have, because, if we are not, we will never know if someone is stealing it or taking it off us.
This puts in doubt whether the shaping of Australia is in the best interests of the Australian population. An ignorant population is one that is easily manipulated by the use of lies, by omission and with false statements and promises. Trust in our country has eroded. Life does not have to be this tough for the Australian people.
Like farming, you only get a small window of opportunity. My vision for Australia is to give Australians a future. This can be done very simply by having governments and laws adhering to the Constitution. From the Constitution, the people's gift, we can invoke or revoke, correct and reform and re-establish. We can raise capital back through our primary industries, and by doing so we will sporn opportunities to rehabilitate manufacturing back on our shores.
The PRESIDENT: Senator Culleton,
Senator CULLETON: <http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/ display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F266482%22;querytype=;rec=0>I am nearly there. I am nearly there. Trust me.
The PRESIDENT: You need to be nearly there.
Senator CULLETON: <http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/ display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F266482%22;querytype=;rec=0
Other nations are envious of what we have. It is clearly God's land. I would like to see government-backed banks, a reintroduction of co-ops—and build a society that values and cares for the most vulnerable.
To conclude, if the judges do not respect law, how then can they establish law and order? If the Constitution is the grand express motorway, why would you take the road full of potholes and road works? Yet this is what our lawyers are doing. Does no-one care? People's hard-earned life assets are just stripped and the courts are the ones that drag out cases for years and make people homeless. I can say from my own experience: you would not want to break down in the desert with only one water bottle with a lawyer.
I stand in this chamber with respect for all those who share this responsibility and privilege as senators—and I do respect you all, Senators. I challenge each and every one to remember section 51 of the Constitution, which states that the parliament exists 'to make laws for peace, order and good government'. I put Australia and this chamber on notice. It is time those elected to the Senate did exactly that. There is an answer and a simple fix: bring back the Constitution and bring back our real laws.
To end, I want to say thank you to my biggest supporters: my incredible wife—just a bit more choke here guys—Ioanna; my sons, who have been galvanised heroes, James and William; and my beautiful daughter, Abbey. Without your support, I would not be standing here today. I said I would go in and fight for us and others as long as I did not lose the respect of my children and you have supported me right through. You are all my heroes. I would not be the man I am today if it was not for the love that you have shown towards me. I am a proud father, brother, husband and son. To Ron and Leslie, who are watching me now and who I am very proud of, I love you dearly. And for all the farmers: I said I would come here and when I made it simply say: and well may we say God save the Queen, because nothing will save these bankers! Thank you.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 08:19:20AM +0300, Александр wrote:
Thank you very much, Zen! This is very inspiring to see politicians like this one. Of course, he is still a politician... he is still part of this fucked up system, BUT ... there is BUT. And he is this "BUT".
With politicians like Rod Culleton, there is still HOPE. Small and faint... but hope.
Perhaps he's the kind of guy that we could talk to personally.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/13/2016 07:50 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: He lost me when he started rambling on with his homespun automotive metaphors /way/ past the point where they became meaningless noise, referencing nothing. But I kept reading anyway, until he REALLY lost me:
Agenda 21 demands, such as deregulating or removing the laws that have provided ethical guidance for foreign corporations in this country, have been responsible for the attitudes we see in our banking institutions, such as 'Can do' or 'We live in your world', when dealing with their clients, as recent inquiries have exposed, and are still being ignored by this government.
The gentleman apparently can't distinguish between Agenda 21 - a model charter for local sovereignty with regard to land use, resource extraction and commercial development - from the TPP, a binding treaty whose principal feature is the eradication of local sovereignty, as falsely attributed to Agenda 21 above. Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax, also uniformly represent Agenda 21 as a conspiracy to establish a One World Government. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYAVn1AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfYYIAMycRAscSHBNY3ROCmUGv/Ej YjgPEO9CJdgBKoh4MjjIdlPU4JDA19pOxvP9iicGAGXHj3l2Lyk/SXwPOqCh/CrN L/xKEXxdDyV55VHKu9I/epIVQJ1pcp8GmoXuHB+RMlooEevonVN21ubC6Tbh3eqI FCVWdkQMimuhD5XxkkGLVprvwEpxHLPWLAciCCXvdM7QGMGbql+LsJcgYPWAw7Y/ KhhKi2rbOw9DhVtC81PjbWE9cErHRYaQvod5S3ckKHrKLr4+EHWXg3LIyeyJqUxt In35cTV39z1Yhm2t7x8O0Pyau17BfSFxRzua5bYTaRBYounbCKl4jypPfNVg99E= =aWeq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
also uniformly represent Agenda 21 as a conspiracy to establish a One World Government.
I don't know what 'agenda 21' is and I don't much care, but global warming is a hoax well suited for establisihing a world government. And a world government is pretty much a 'logical' and 'natural' evolution of national government.
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On 10/14/2016 04:47 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
Dude, you're a hoax! <SNIP>
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 16:51:33 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 04:47 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
Dude, you're a hoax!
that coming from a tor-bot, who has a solid track record of stupidity and absurdities including 'physics' and economics. so again, global warming is hoax, tor is a US military weapon you support, your highly stupid remarks about black markets show you are either ignoran or dishonest, and zombie cats don't exist.
<SNIP>
On 10/14/2016 05:05 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 16:51:33 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 04:47 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
Dude, you're a hoax!
that coming from a tor-bot, who has a solid track record of stupidity and absurdities including 'physics' and economics.
so again, global warming is hoax, tor is a US military weapon you support, your highly stupid remarks about black markets show you are either ignoran or dishonest, and zombie cats don't exist.
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
<SNIP>
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:04:15 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
go kill some of your 'customers' with badly cut heroin, asshole.
<SNIP>
On 10/14/2016 05:28 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:04:15 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
go kill some of your 'customers' with badly cut heroin, asshole.
Yes, a fucking hoax who twists shit to support his fraudulent claims. Taking you seriously is a strong test for sanity.
<SNIP>
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:42:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 05:28 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:04:15 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
go kill some of your 'customers' with badly cut heroin, asshole.
Yes, a fucking hoax who twists shit to support his fraudulent claims.
What fraudulent claims, piece-of-shit?
Taking you seriously is a strong test for sanity.
<SNIP>
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:42:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 05:28 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:04:15 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
go kill some of your 'customers' with badly cut heroin, asshole.
Yes, a fucking hoax who twists shit to support his fraudulent claims.
Oh, and by the way, I, unlike you, post using my real name. You on the other hand are pretty much an anonymous coward. Since your own character here is fake, you are by definition a hoax. Fucking idiot.
On 10/14/2016 06:10 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:42:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 05:28 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:04:15 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
go kill some of your 'customers' with badly cut heroin, asshole.
Yes, a fucking hoax who twists shit to support his fraudulent claims.
Oh, and by the way, I, unlike you, post using my real name. You on the other hand are pretty much an anonymous coward. Since your own character here is fake, you are by definition a hoax.
Fucking idiot.
Ah, but you see, it's your life that's the hoax :)
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:50 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 06:10 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:42:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 05:28 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:04:15 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
go kill some of your 'customers' with badly cut heroin, asshole.
Yes, a fucking hoax who twists shit to support his fraudulent claims.
Oh, and by the way, I, unlike you, post using my real name. You on the other hand are pretty much an anonymous coward. Since your own character here is fake, you are by definition a hoax.
Fucking idiot.
Ah, but you see, it's your life that's the hoax :)
if an anonymous hoax and coward on the internet says so...
On 10/14/2016 06:39 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:50 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 06:10 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:42:00 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 05:28 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:04:15 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
As I said, you're a fucking hoax ;)
go kill some of your 'customers' with badly cut heroin, asshole.
Yes, a fucking hoax who twists shit to support his fraudulent claims.
Oh, and by the way, I, unlike you, post using my real name. You on the other hand are pretty much an anonymous coward. Since your own character here is fake, you are by definition a hoax.
Fucking idiot.
Ah, but you see, it's your life that's the hoax :)
if an anonymous hoax and coward on the internet says so...
Yep, he does.
Global warming is not a hoax. This list is less than useless. John
On Oct 14, 2016, at 6:47 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
also uniformly represent Agenda 21 as a conspiracy to establish a One World Government.
I don't know what 'agenda 21' is and I don't much care, but global warming is a hoax well suited for establisihing a world government.
And a world government is pretty much a 'logical' and 'natural' evolution of national government.
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On 10/14/2016 05:02 PM, John Newman wrote:
Global warming is not a hoax.
This list is less than useless.
Yeah, it died, and then got reanimated by jerks. It's been a classic Usenet-style troll takeover. Sad :(
John
On Oct 14, 2016, at 6:47 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
also uniformly represent Agenda 21 as a conspiracy to establish a One World Government.
I don't know what 'agenda 21' is and I don't much care, but global warming is a hoax well suited for establisihing a world government.
And a world government is pretty much a 'logical' and 'natural' evolution of national government.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
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On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:18:16 -0600 Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/14/2016 05:02 PM, John Newman wrote:
Global warming is not a hoax.
This list is less than useless.
Yeah, it died, and then got reanimated by jerks. It's been a classic Usenet-style troll takeover. Sad :(
Why don't you explain the relationship of your americunt enviro-fascism to crypto-anarchy? Oh wait... So yeah, go cry on the shoulder of the other enviro-retards.
John
On Oct 14, 2016, at 6:47 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
also uniformly represent Agenda 21 as a conspiracy to establish a One World Government.
I don't know what 'agenda 21' is and I don't much care, but global warming is a hoax well suited for establisihing a world government.
And a world government is pretty much a 'logical' and 'natural' evolution of national government.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYAVn1AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfYYIAMycRAscSHBNY3ROCmUGv/Ej YjgPEO9CJdgBKoh4MjjIdlPU4JDA19pOxvP9iicGAGXHj3l2Lyk/SXwPOqCh/CrN L/xKEXxdDyV55VHKu9I/epIVQJ1pcp8GmoXuHB+RMlooEevonVN21ubC6Tbh3eqI FCVWdkQMimuhD5XxkkGLVprvwEpxHLPWLAciCCXvdM7QGMGbql+LsJcgYPWAw7Y/ KhhKi2rbOw9DhVtC81PjbWE9cErHRYaQvod5S3ckKHrKLr4+EHWXg3LIyeyJqUxt In35cTV39z1Yhm2t7x8O0Pyau17BfSFxRzua5bYTaRBYounbCKl4jypPfNVg99E= =aWeq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:02:01 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Global warming is not a hoax.
global warming is a hoax - and as I mentioned before you are not even using the correct scam terminology : global warming
This list is less than useless.
translation : useless for establishment propaganda. Though there's a good deal of establishment propaganda in it, so who knows. Anyway, I'm sure you would be warmly welcomed in some Elite Enlightened Institution like the 'cryptography' mailing list. ps: americans are worse than russians. I say that as an independent third party =)
John
On Oct 14, 2016, at 6:47 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 18:19:33 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax,
global warming IS a hoax.
also uniformly represent Agenda 21 as a conspiracy to establish a One World Government.
I don't know what 'agenda 21' is and I don't much care, but global warming is a hoax well suited for establisihing a world government.
And a world government is pretty much a 'logical' and 'natural' evolution of national government.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYAVn1AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfYYIAMycRAscSHBNY3ROCmUGv/Ej YjgPEO9CJdgBKoh4MjjIdlPU4JDA19pOxvP9iicGAGXHj3l2Lyk/SXwPOqCh/CrN L/xKEXxdDyV55VHKu9I/epIVQJ1pcp8GmoXuHB+RMlooEevonVN21ubC6Tbh3eqI FCVWdkQMimuhD5XxkkGLVprvwEpxHLPWLAciCCXvdM7QGMGbql+LsJcgYPWAw7Y/ KhhKi2rbOw9DhVtC81PjbWE9cErHRYaQvod5S3ckKHrKLr4+EHWXg3LIyeyJqUxt In35cTV39z1Yhm2t7x8O0Pyau17BfSFxRzua5bYTaRBYounbCKl4jypPfNVg99E= =aWeq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Oct 14, 2016, at 7:23 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
global warming is a hoax - and as I mentioned before you are not even using the correct scam terminology : global warming
Global warming is not a hoax.
This list is less than useless.
translation : useless for establishment propaganda. Though there's a good deal of establishment propaganda in it, so who knows.
Translation: completely fucking barren of any worthwhile discussion, this one included.
Anyway, I'm sure you would be warmly welcomed in some Elite Enlightened Institution like the 'cryptography' mailing list.
What’s your problem with the crypto list? Too much technical talk? Not enough Russian propaganda? John
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 20:46:51 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
On Oct 14, 2016, at 7:23 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
global warming is a hoax - and as I mentioned before you are not even using the correct scam terminology : global warming
Global warming is not a hoax.
global warming is a hoax. Then again, try telling a jew-kristian that kristianity is a hoax...
This list is less than useless.
translation : useless for establishment propaganda. Though there's a good deal of establishment propaganda in it, so who knows.
Translation: completely fucking barren of any worthwhile discussion, this one included.
So, why do you bother with it, and with your world-reheating 'science'?
Anyway, I'm sure you would be warmly welcomed in some Elite Enlightened Institution like the 'cryptography' mailing list.
What’s your problem with the crypto list?
I made it quite clear why that list is a cesspool =) - Check today's archives.
Too much technical talk?
third-rate, nerdy, pseudo-technical talk. Pretty much useless. Or more correctly, pretty useful as far as not dealing with fundamental issues goes. A collection of useful 'idiots'. Not idiots of course but fully corrupt clowns.
Not enough Russian propaganda?
Well, since any 'american' forum, including this one, is usually 100% 'american' propaganda, russian propaganda at least brings some variety to the table. But I can understand how russian propaganda would upset a few people in this list...
John
On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:13 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
global warming is a hoax. Then again, try telling a jew-kristian that kristianity is a hoax…
Man, I’m not going to debate climate change with you, its a fucking stupid waste of time. If you honestly don’t believe in science that’s a problem you need to solve on your own. You’ll get there, give it some time.
So, why do you bother with it,
That’s the only good question you’ve asked. I don’t know the answer - I suspect I’ll be mulling that over for a (little) while. I have met a few interesting people on the list, some good book suggestions.. it hasn’t been all bad.
third-rate, nerdy, pseudo-technical talk. Pretty much useless. Or more correctly, pretty useful as far as not dealing with fundamental issues goes. A collection of useful 'idiots'. Not idiots of course but fully corrupt clowns.
In other words - you don’t know the first thing about the technical aspects of it, so its of no interest to you.
Well, since any 'american' forum, including this one, is usually 100% 'american' propaganda, russian propaganda at least brings some variety to the table.
It’s hardly a variety. The shit makes up 90% of the posts. It’s a big fucking circle jerk between Zen, Alex and, to a lesser degree, yourself. John
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:31:04 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:13 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
global warming is a hoax. Then again, try telling a jew-kristian that kristianity is a hoax…
Man, I’m not going to debate climate change with you, its a fucking stupid waste of time. If you honestly don’t believe in science that’s a problem you need to solve on your own. You’ll get there, give it some time.
The thing is, I, unlike you, do know what science means. And yes, I wouldn't bother discussing your enviro propaganda with you either.
So, why do you bother with it,
That’s the only good question you’ve asked.
Really.
third-rate, nerdy, pseudo-technical talk. Pretty much useless. Or more correctly, pretty useful as far as not dealing with fundamental issues goes. A collection of useful 'idiots'. Not idiots of course but fully corrupt clowns.
In other words - you don’t know the first thing about the technical aspects of it, so its of no interest to you.
I have a general idea of the technical aspects, that's exaclty why I know they are irrelevant bullshit. Oh yes, useless talk about how your semi-flawed crypto an OSes run on fully compromised, americunt hardware. Impressive. But of course, you did get my point already, you just ignore it because you cannot counter it.
Well, since any 'american' forum, including this one, is usually 100% 'american' propaganda, russian propaganda at least brings some variety to the table.
It’s hardly a variety. The shit makes up 90% of the posts. It’s a big fucking circle jerk between Zen, Alex and, to a lesser degree, yourself.
Well, at this point I wouldn't expect anythin sensible from you. So feel free to link A SINGLE instance of my pro-russian propganda, fucktard. Or even circle-jerking. I've made more than one nasty remark on stuff Zen posts. Also, I made my position on russia clear when I said that I consider russia to be fully 'western' and as such...just another cesspool. I can quote myself if you want me to... But hey, you've already made it clear how far your intellectual honesty goes.
John
On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:57 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:31:04 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:13 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
global warming is a hoax. Then again, try telling a jew-kristian that kristianity is a hoax…
Man, I’m not going to debate climate change with you, its a fucking stupid waste of time. If you honestly don’t believe in science that’s a problem you need to solve on your own. You’ll get there, give it some time.
The thing is, I, unlike you, do know what science means. And yes, I wouldn't bother discussing your enviro propaganda with you either.
And I’m the intellectually dishonest one? Fucking hilarious.
In other words - you don’t know the first thing about the technical aspects of it, so its of no interest to you.
I have a general idea of the technical aspects, that's exaclty why I know they are irrelevant bullshit. Oh yes, useless talk about how your semi-flawed crypto an OSes run on fully compromised, americunt hardware. Impressive.
But of course, you did get my point already, you just ignore it because you cannot counter it.
Its technical discussion that doesn’t interest you, so you call it "useless talk". I think we are agreed on this - you are bored by purely technical discussions. This doesn’t make the crypto list inherently flawed. It’s just not for YOU, which is appropriate, since you likely can’t follow the discussions anyway.
Well, since any 'american' forum, including this one, is usually 100% 'american' propaganda, russian propaganda at least brings some variety to the table.
It’s hardly a variety. The shit makes up 90% of the posts. It’s a big fucking circle jerk between Zen, Alex and, to a lesser degree, yourself.
Well, at this point I wouldn't expect anythin sensible from you.
So feel free to link A SINGLE instance of my pro-russian propganda, fucktard. Or even circle-jerking. I've made more than one nasty remark on stuff Zen posts.
Also, I made my position on russia clear when I said that I consider russia to be fully 'western' and as such...just another cesspool. I can quote myself if you want me to…
My apologies on this one. I have seen Zen and Alex give you props only about a fucking million times, but apparently its not a two way street. You don’t actively support the fucking torrent of Russian bullshit, but you mostly don’t say shit about it either. So consider yourself out of the circle jerk if that makes you feel better. And, no, don’t bother to quote yourself…. your inane, vicious, vulgar bullshit is generally not worth repeating. John
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 23:13:50 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Its technical discussion that doesn’t interest you, so you call it "useless talk".
It is useless talk because it doesn't lead to any improvement, security-wise, let alone increased freedom.
I think we are agreed on this - you are bored by purely technical discussions.
I don't think I ever said that or agreed to it. I'm not interested in *irrelevant* technical discussions. But, for instance, I've discussed a few times why a cyberweaponlike tor (widely supported in fake, american, privacy circles ) is TECHNICALLY flawed - at least if we were to believe the lies about its intended purpose. It's not flawed from the point of view of its creators.
This doesn’t make the crypto list inherently flawed. It’s just not for YOU, which is appropriate, since you likely can’t follow the discussions anyway.
Yes you're right. I can't 'follow' that kind of thing just like I can't watch hollywood movies. Or like I can't stand establishment retards. Were you able to 'follow' my 'technical' remark about hardware? I mentioned that all your 'free' 'open' software runs on hardware owned by the US silicon-valley-military. Are the 'technical' implications of that fact too hard for you to 'follow'? What are the PDF masters at the crypto mailing list planing to do about that little problem? Or perhaps it's not even a bug but a feature? Because, you know, there are lots of america-hating terrists out there. Ask bruce schneier. Oh, and there's another technical issue you perhaps have some trouble 'following'. It is the technical issue of CENSORSHIP in the FUCKING CRYPTOGRAPHY MLIST. I'm using ALL CAPS because you seem to have missed that TECHNICAL matter a couple of times. I'm guessing the font was TOO SMALL.
My apologies on this one. I have seen Zen and Alex give you props only about a fucking million times,
Because I tell apologists of the american establishment/empire to go fuck themselves, perhaps?
but apparently its not a two way street. You don’t actively support the fucking torrent of Russian bullshit, but you mostly don’t say shit about it either.
I already said what I think about russia. I'll add that regarding the current warmongering provocations against russia, made by american psychos, I'd 'side' with russia...and trump. Assuming putin and trump actually are slightly less warmongering than the sick cunt hitlery and the 'progressive' fascists from the 'democratic' party. Or perhaps it's a show fully agreed upon by both sides. At any rate, your reaction to russian propaganda doesn't speak too well of you, just like it doesn't speak too well of Google Inc. representatives.
So consider yourself out of the circle jerk if that makes you feel better.
And, no, don’t bother to quote yourself…. your inane, vicious, vulgar bullshit is generally not worth repeating.
True, true. And give my regards to all those well-bred, virtuous heroes at the cryptography mailing list. They are really saving the world from evil anti-american forces. Russian mostly.
John
I don't think I ever said that or agreed to it. I'm not interested in *irrelevant* technical discussions. But, for instance, I've discussed a few times why a cyberweaponlike tor (widely supported in fake, american, privacy circles ) is TECHNICALLY flawed - at least if we were to believe the lies about its intended purpose. It's not flawed from the point of view of its creators.
There are certainly known attacks on the Tor model, and I understand its technical failures in this regard. Conspiracy theories (with no disdain there -- one should question the veracity of government funded projects) about its intended purposes aside, unless a better model can be put forward that provides Tor's features, while decreasing risk, I just don't see how such criticisms are relevant on technical grounds. You liken it to a weapon, and fair enough. In the 1700's muskets were state of the art. Criticisms of their technical failures with regard to poor accuracy, slow time to reload, difficulties in wet conditions, and so on have no real merit unless/until an alternative design is presented which solves it. For me, Tor's main utility isn't in the way of anonymity so much as a robust way to reach out past firewalls, and to obviate the need for any dynamic DNS considerations, and so forth. On each network that I have to deal with, I keep one box/VM running SSH as a tor hidden service. If I, or someone else, fucks up a firewall configuration, we have a chance to use the Tor entry point to jump in and fix. We could use a VPN server for this, with an associated single-point of failure, and cost. With Tor, we get redundancy and no cost. But anonymity isn't even a stated need with this use-case. That said, you're right: Tor is very suspect in terms of providing true anonymity and protection from government surveillance. But if that is who you're worried about, there is never, and really can never, be a wholly technical/cryptographic solution to that problem. Even if you have technology that the government can't spy on, they are bound to get extra interested in you BECAUSE they can't spy on you. The solution to that problem starts, "at home", as they say. Opsec from the start. One keeps a bootable USB drive hidden in a bus-station locker or some such. When anonymous comms are desired, you leave your cell phone at home, retrieve the disk, boot up at a random public wifi spot, do what you need to do, and drop the disk back off. Avoid patterns in public hot spots that you use, and so on. Keep a strictly red/black design where no information leakage between "you" and your "alter-ego" ever cross up. Probably you'd even want to wear a disguise of some sort when doing work as your alter-ego. Separation of "privilege" all the way down. Any purely technical scheme seems doomed to failure in some way or another.
On Oct 15, 2016, at 3:52 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 23:13:50 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Its technical discussion that doesn’t interest you, so you call it "useless talk".
It is useless talk because it doesn't lead to any improvement, security-wise, let alone increased freedom.
You really think there has been nothing learned or advanced on the crypto list? You must follow it REAL fucking close for something you despise so much.
I think we are agreed on this - you are bored by purely technical discussions.
I don't think I ever said that or agreed to it. I'm not interested in *irrelevant* technical discussions. But, for instance, I've discussed a few times why a cyberweaponlike tor (widely supported in fake, american, privacy circles ) is TECHNICALLY flawed - at least if we were to believe the lies about its intended purpose. It's not flawed from the point of view of its creators.
I've never seen you make any interesting technical points, about tor or anything else. When it comes to tor you're like a fucking broken IRC bot, spouting the SAME SHIT WE ALL KNOW, over and over and over. Everyone knows where it is funded, how it was started, and that it is insecure against a GPA. Tell me something I don't know, that you haven't repeated ad infinitum, like a fucking over excited child.
This doesn’t make the crypto list inherently flawed. It’s just not for YOU, which is appropriate, since you likely can’t follow the discussions anyway.
Yes you're right. I can't 'follow' that kind of thing just like I can't watch hollywood movies. Or like I can't stand establishment retards.
No, I think it's because you have nothing interesting to say on the list. I've seen your posts, they are not technical in nature. You don't have to be such a defensive ass about it, but hey, you think climate change is a hoax too, so I'd say you are basically a fucking lost cause at this point.
Were you able to 'follow' my 'technical' remark about hardware? I mentioned that all your 'free' 'open' software runs on hardware owned by the US silicon-valley-military. Are the 'technical' implications of that fact too hard for you to 'follow'? What are the PDF masters at the crypto mailing list planing to do about that little problem? Or perhaps it's not even a bug but a feature? Because, you know, there are lots of america-hating terrists out there. Ask bruce schneier.
Oh, and there's another technical issue you perhaps have some trouble 'following'. It is the technical issue of CENSORSHIP in the FUCKING CRYPTOGRAPHY MLIST. I'm using ALL CAPS because you seem to have missed that TECHNICAL matter a couple of times. I'm guessing the font was TOO SMALL.
With people like yourself, it isn't hard to imagine why the list is moderated. There are different lists for different purposes. You don't get to dictate how the individual admins configure their software. That would hardly be in line with your ideals, would it? All mailman configuration pushed down on high from the central committee ? Give me a fucking break man.
My apologies on this one. I have seen Zen and Alex give you props only about a fucking million times,
Because I tell apologists of the american establishment/empire to go fuck themselves, perhaps?
but apparently its not a two way street. You don’t actively support the fucking torrent of Russian bullshit, but you mostly don’t say shit about it either.
I already said what I think about russia. I'll add that regarding the current warmongering provocations against russia, made by american psychos, I'd 'side' with russia...and trump. Assuming putin and trump actually are slightly less warmongering than the sick cunt hitlery and the 'progressive' fascists from the 'democratic' party.
You're a gullible clown if you actually believe that.
Or perhaps it's a show fully agreed upon by both sides.
Warmer, I suspect....
At any rate, your reaction to russian propaganda doesn't speak too well of you, just like it doesn't speak too well of Google Inc. representatives.
And your reaction speaks volumes about you. First you replied by immediately throwing your comrades under the bus, now you seem to want back in the circle jerk? This entire thread is such a fucking waste of time. As have been most "discussions" between you and someone else that I've bothered to follow. John
So consider yourself out of the circle jerk if that makes you feel better.
And, no, don’t bother to quote yourself…. your inane, vicious, vulgar bullshit is generally not worth repeating.
True, true. And give my regards to all those well-bred, virtuous heroes at the cryptography mailing list. They are really saving the world from evil anti-american forces. Russian mostly.
John
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 06:29:42 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
On Oct 15, 2016, at 3:52 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 23:13:50 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Its technical discussion that doesn’t interest you, so you call it "useless talk".
It is useless talk because it doesn't lead to any improvement, security-wise, let alone increased freedom.
You really think there has been nothing learned or advanced on the crypto list?
Perhaps you should start by reading the newspapers. Even offcial propaganda is closer to the truth than what you seem to be suggesting. You must follow it REAL fucking close for something you
despise so much.
I think we are agreed on this - you are bored by purely technical discussions.
I don't think I ever said that or agreed to it. I'm not interested in *irrelevant* technical discussions. But, for instance, I've discussed a few times why a cyberweaponlike tor (widely supported in fake, american, privacy circles ) is TECHNICALLY flawed - at least if we were to believe the lies about its intended purpose. It's not flawed from the point of view of its creators.
I've never seen you make any interesting technical points,
So now you changed from "technical points" to "interesting technical points" You don't need to further embarras yourself, but you are likely to....
about tor or anything else. When it comes to tor you're like a fucking broken IRC bot, spouting the SAME SHIT WE ALL KNOW,
Oh really.
over and over and over. Everyone knows where it is funded, how it was started, and that it is insecure against a GPA.
Tell me something I don't know, that you haven't repeated ad infinitum, like a fucking over excited child.
Nobody seems to know what I'm saying. If they did, they would act otherwise. Oh wait, they are complicit?
This doesn’t make the crypto list inherently flawed. It’s just not for YOU, which is appropriate, since you likely can’t follow the discussions anyway.
Yes you're right. I can't 'follow' that kind of thing just like I can't watch hollywood movies. Or like I can't stand establishment retards.
No, I think it's because you have nothing interesting to say on the list.
Youjr opinion. I think you don't have anything iteresting to say either, apart from your stupid world-reheating hoax. Which is off-topic and statist propaganda.
I've seen your posts, they are not technical in nature.
Hey stupid piece of shit, this list is about crpyo ANARCHY.
You don't have to be such a defensive ass about it, but hey, you think climate change is a hoax too, so I'd say you are basically a fucking lost cause at this point.
I say you are an ignorant nerd who thinks that any sort of pseudo technical bullshit is Holy Science. You are just a recycled christian.
Were you able to 'follow' my 'technical' remark about hardware? I mentioned that all your 'free' 'open' software runs on hardware owned by the US silicon-valley-military. Are the 'technical' implications of that fact too hard for you to 'follow'? What are the PDF masters at the crypto mailing list planing to do about that little problem? Or perhaps it's not even a bug but a feature? Because, you know, there are lots of america-hating terrists out there. Ask bruce schneier.
Oh, and there's another technical issue you perhaps have some trouble 'following'. It is the technical issue of CENSORSHIP in the FUCKING CRYPTOGRAPHY MLIST. I'm using ALL CAPS because you seem to have missed that TECHNICAL matter a couple of times. I'm guessing the font was TOO SMALL.
With people like yourself, it isn't hard to imagine why the list is moderated.
You are piece of shit John =) - What does a pro-censorship piece of shit like you do in an allegedly crypto ANARCHSIT mailing list John.
There are different lists for different purposes. You don't get to dictate how the individual admins configure their software.
Pro censorship peie of shit, parroting pro-censorship propaganda in 'cryto' 'anarchsit' circles. You are a...hoax.
but apparently its not a two way street. You don’t actively support the fucking torrent of Russian bullshit, but you mostly don’t say shit about it either.
I already said what I think about russia. I'll add that regarding the current warmongering provocations against russia, made by american psychos, I'd 'side' with russia...and trump. Assuming putin and trump actually are slightly less warmongering than the sick cunt hitlery and the 'progressive' fascists from the 'democratic' party.
You're a gullible clown if you actually believe that.
If I believe that MAYBE there's a slightly less warlike faction that it's not going to win? Sonny, you can't teachn any 'technical' tricks, let alone political ones.
Or perhaps it's a show fully agreed upon by both sides.
Warmer, I suspect....
Oh thank you very much for Teaching Me About Stuff.
At any rate, your reaction to russian propaganda doesn't speak too well of you, just like it doesn't speak too well of Google Inc. representatives.
And your reaction speaks volumes about you. First you replied by immediately throwing your comrades under the bus,
Except they are not my comrades.
now you seem to want back in the circle jerk?
What about you don't having a clue, and either not understanding my position or just lying about it. Bottom line you are way more pro amerikka thatn I'm pro russia. Hardly surprising sice you are an americunt.
This entire thread is such a fucking waste of time.
So go fuck yourself. I'm sure you can write a three line bash script to hack the NSA. Go for it.
As have been most "discussions" between you and someone else that I've bothered to follow.
Ih oh. Butthurt much about your trash global warming religion eh.
John
So consider yourself out of the circle jerk if that makes you feel better.
And, no, don’t bother to quote yourself…. your inane, vicious, vulgar bullshit is generally not worth repeating.
True, true. And give my regards to all those well-bred, virtuous heroes at the cryptography mailing list. They are really saving the world from evil anti-american forces. Russian mostly.
John
On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:13 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
I've never seen you make any interesting technical points,
So now you changed from "technical points" to "interesting technical points"
You don't need to further embarras yourself, but you are likely to….
Playing simple word games, Juan? That seems about your speed. My point remains the same, and un-refuted.
or anything else. When it comes to tor you're like a fucking broken IRC bot, spouting the SAME SHIT WE ALL KNOW,
Oh really.
Yep.
Nobody seems to know what I'm saying. If they did, they would act otherwise. Oh wait, they are complicit?
Everyone knows. Everyone with half a fucking brain. If they don’t, it’s only because you’ve obscured the real issues with tor with your over the top TORBOT TORBOT TORBOT responses any time the word is mentioned.
I've seen your posts, they are not technical in nature.
Hey stupid piece of shit, this list is about crpyo ANARCHY.
Right, but I’m talking about your hatred for the CRYPTO list, you ass.
You don't have to be such a defensive ass about it, but hey, you think climate change is a hoax too, so I'd say you are basically a fucking lost cause at this point.
I say you are an ignorant nerd who thinks that any sort of pseudo technical bullshit is Holy Science. You are just a recycled christian.
You like to use the word nerd to describe anyone interested in technical matters? I’ll give you a clue: it was a bunch of ‘nerds’ who wrote the OS and designed the silicon for that computer you are punching your inane fucking nonsense into. The internet wouldn’t exist without these ‘nerds’. I could go on and on, but surely even you get the point...
With people like yourself, it isn't hard to imagine why the list is moderated.
You are piece of shit John =) - What does a pro-censorship piece of shit like you do in an allegedly crypto ANARCHSIT mailing list John.
There are different lists for different purposes. You don't get to dictate how the individual admins configure their software.
Pro censorship peie of shit, parroting pro-censorship propaganda in 'cryto' 'anarchsit' circles.
You are a…hoax.
I never said anything pro-censorship. I said YOU DONT GET TO DECIDE HOW OTHER PEOPLE CONFIGURE THEIR SOFTWARE. It’s not UP TO YOU, jackass. I’ve never endorsed moderation for this list. And parroting the lines others have just thrown at you gets you no points (“You are a… hoax”)
but apparently its not a two way street. You don’t actively support the fucking torrent of Russian bullshit, but you mostly don’t say shit about it either.
I already said what I think about russia. I'll add that regarding the current warmongering provocations against russia, made by american psychos, I'd 'side' with russia...and trump. Assuming putin and trump actually are slightly less warmongering than the sick cunt hitlery and the 'progressive' fascists from the 'democratic' party.
You're a gullible clown if you actually believe that.
If I believe that MAYBE there's a slightly less warlike faction that it's not going to win?
Sonny, you can't teachn any 'technical' tricks, let alone political ones.
Or perhaps it's a show fully agreed upon by both sides.
Warmer, I suspect....
Oh thank you very much for Teaching Me About Stuff.
Anytime.
At any rate, your reaction to russian propaganda doesn't speak too well of you, just like it doesn't speak too well of Google Inc. representatives.
And your reaction speaks volumes about you. First you replied by immediately throwing your comrades under the bus,
Except they are not my comrades.
The list archives would seem to say otherwise.
now you seem to want back in the circle jerk?
What about you don't having a clue, and either not understanding my position or just lying about it.
Bottom line you are way more pro amerikka thatn I'm pro russia. Hardly surprising sice you are an americunt.
You argue like a child. I’m “more pro-america” than you are “pro-russia”… which is utter fucking bullshit, and I think you know it. Show one time I’ve ever endorsed america. Actually, don’t bother - you couldn’t do it anyway, but I have no interest in reading any more of you bullshit.
This entire thread is such a fucking waste of time.
So go fuck yourself. I'm sure you can write a three line bash script to hack the NSA. Go for it.
Same to you Juan :) Is there ANYONE on this list that you haven’t gotten into a massive flame war with? Anyone besides your Russian Alex-Jones-loving “global warming is a hoax" comrades, I mean…. You have to ask yourself, when its you against EVERYONE, is the problem really with EVERYONE else, or is the problem, perhaps, with YOU ? I’m done talking to you. Respond if you want, but I’m not wasting any more time on your fucking nonsense. John
On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 08:18:26 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:13 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
I've never seen you make any interesting technical points,
So now you changed from "technical points" to "interesting technical points"
You don't need to further embarras yourself, but you are likely to….
Playing simple word games, Juan? That seems about your speed. My point remains the same, and un-refuted.
You don't have a point. By the way, as far as I can tell your second post to this list is about....the global warming scam. Go figure. At least counting posts coming from synfin.org. Now, feel free to link all your 'technical', 'relevant' and 'useful' posts to the list. Especially 'technical'. Not that you are under any obligation to post pseudo technical garbage, but since apparently you love it so much, one would expect you to post a lot of it? Seems not. Tsk tsk. Then again, I'm glad you don't practice what you preach =)
or anything else. When it comes to tor you're like a fucking broken IRC bot, spouting the SAME SHIT WE ALL KNOW,
Oh really.
Yep.
"We" all know. So who is "we"? Whose spokesperson are you? Or whose talking head? Ah yes, since you can't speak for yourself you now invoke some kind of imaginary gang. Or perhaps you are referring to the 'community' of corrupt 'hackers' and the like, on the pentagon's payroll? Of course "you all" know that...
Nobody seems to know what I'm saying. If they did, they would act otherwise. Oh wait, they are complicit?
Everyone knows.
You can't answer the question...Or don't want to =)
Everyone with half a fucking brain. If they don’t, it’s only because you’ve obscured the real issues with tor
Oh, now it's my fault. My powers are amazing eh. Just because of some messages I post in a couple of small lists, I've turned the whole world into complicit assholes. I must be jesus or something - that's why I have superpowers! And what are the 'real' issues according to you anyway? Not that tor is a scam funded by the pentagon eh? That's not a real issue I guess...? Or is that the issue I've 'obscured'? Or what. Yeah, not expecting you to say anything reasonable at this point...
with your over the top TORBOT TORBOT TORBOT responses any time the word is mentioned.
You are starting to sound like a torbot john. You were a tor accomplice too, no?
I've seen your posts, they are not technical in nature.
Hey stupid piece of shit, this list is about crpyo ANARCHY.
Right, but I’m talking about your hatred for the CRYPTO list, you ass.
And I'm talking about a bunch of censors and establishment clowns pretending to be against it. I can also talk about your love for a bunch of censors. So?
You don't have to be such a defensive ass about it, but hey, you think climate change is a hoax too, so I'd say you are basically a fucking lost cause at this point.
I say you are an ignorant nerd who thinks that any sort of pseudo technical bullshit is Holy Science. You are just a recycled christian.
You like to use the word nerd to describe anyone interested in technical matters?
No, I'm using it that way with you. Looks like you can't even read? I bothered to qualify "nerd" for your especial kind =)
Pro censorship peie of shit, parroting pro-censorship propaganda in 'cryto' 'anarchsit' circles.
You are a…hoax.
I never said anything pro-censorship.
Except for supporting the censoring 'policies' of the 'cryptography' mailing cesspool. Come on. You can't be that stupid...or dishonest.
I said YOU DONT GET TO DECIDE HOW OTHER PEOPLE CONFIGURE THEIR SOFTWARE. It’s not UP TO YOU, jackass. I’ve never endorsed moderation for this list.
Not for this list. Did I say you endorse it for this list? No I didn't, lying retard. On the other hand, have you talked against people like quinn? Well you didn't do that either... At any rate, you endorse it for the 'cryptography' mailing list. So how retarded can you be to say something in one message and try to deny it in the next one? "OTHER PEOPLE CONFIGURE THEIR SOFTWARE" Isn't software 'free'? Oh, 'free' software gives 'admins' the divine right to censorship. You make so much sense...
And parroting the lines others have just thrown at you gets you no points (“You are a… hoax”)
You are a hoax John. A pro-censorship hoax. Oh wait, I can't use that line? It's been copyright by the PDF Philosopher Mirimir? Sorry, please don't sue!
At any rate, your reaction to russian propaganda doesn't speak too well of you, just like it doesn't speak too well of Google Inc. representatives.
And your reaction speaks volumes about you. First you replied by immediately throwing your comrades under the bus,
Except they are not my comrades.
The list archives would seem to say otherwise.
No, only liars say otherwise. Here's my take on russia...qouted by one "John Newman". And agreed with! =) https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/029267.html By the way, first you accuse me of being part of a circle jerk that posts russian propaganda. But if deny it (and you know the accusation is false), then I'm throwing my comrades under the bus. So whether I am pro-russia...or not...I'm guilty anyway =) You should get a job as state prosecutor...
now you seem to want back in the circle jerk?
What about you don't having a clue, and either not understanding my position or just lying about it.
Bottom line you are way more pro amerikka thatn I'm pro russia. Hardly surprising sice you are an americunt.
You argue like a child. I’m “more pro-america” than you are “pro-russia”… which is utter fucking bullshit, and I think you know it. Show one time I’ve ever endorsed america.
You seem to be trying the "everybody is as bad as the U.S." line. If that's not the case, you could have dealt with the stuff Zen posts in a rational way. You didn't. Your mistake.
This entire thread is such a fucking waste of time.
So go fuck yourself. I'm sure you can write a three line bash script to hack the NSA. Go for it.
Same to you Juan :)
I'm not delusional and think the NSA can be 'hacked' =)
Is there ANYONE on this list that you haven’t gotten into a massive flame war with? Anyone besides your Russian Alex-Jones-loving “global warming is a hoax" comrades, I mean…. You have to ask yourself, when its you against EVERYONE, is the problem really with EVERYONE else, or is the problem, perhaps, with YOU ?
Oh yes. I'm not "well adapted" to your circle jerk of fake 'hackers' on the pentagon's payroll and Leading Establishment Americunts like those of the crypto ML. You want people to parrot only what the gang leaders allow to be parroted eh John? That's the reason why you 'love' the fully censored 'cryptography' mailing list =)
I’m done talking to you. Respond if you want, but I’m not wasting any more time on your fucking nonsense.
At least it makes more sense than your own nonsense =) Like I said, now show what amazing hacker you are and how you are going to hack the pentagon...Focus on the 'technical' stuff...
John
It's mildly tempting to make a substantive reply to your continued nonsense. But I said I was bowing out, and so I am ;). None of your rebuttals are worth the continued effort anyway, Juan. My time is better spent doing ANYTHING else. I do appreciate the props on my old comments on propaganda :) take care John
On Oct 17, 2016, at 11:30 AM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 08:18:26 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:13 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
I've never seen you make any interesting technical points,
So now you changed from "technical points" to "interesting technical points"
You don't need to further embarras yourself, but you are likely to….
Playing simple word games, Juan? That seems about your speed. My point remains the same, and un-refuted.
You don't have a point. By the way, as far as I can tell your second post to this list is about....the global warming scam. Go figure. At least counting posts coming from synfin.org.
Now, feel free to link all your 'technical', 'relevant' and 'useful' posts to the list. Especially 'technical'. Not that you are under any obligation to post pseudo technical garbage, but since apparently you love it so much, one would expect you to post a lot of it? Seems not. Tsk tsk.
Then again, I'm glad you don't practice what you preach =)
or anything else. When it comes to tor you're like a fucking broken IRC bot, spouting the SAME SHIT WE ALL KNOW,
Oh really.
Yep.
"We" all know. So who is "we"? Whose spokesperson are you? Or whose talking head?
Ah yes, since you can't speak for yourself you now invoke some kind of imaginary gang. Or perhaps you are referring to the 'community' of corrupt 'hackers' and the like, on the pentagon's payroll? Of course "you all" know that...
Nobody seems to know what I'm saying. If they did, they would act otherwise. Oh wait, they are complicit?
Everyone knows.
You can't answer the question...Or don't want to =)
Everyone with half a fucking brain. If they don’t, it’s only because you’ve obscured the real issues with tor
Oh, now it's my fault. My powers are amazing eh. Just because of some messages I post in a couple of small lists, I've turned the whole world into complicit assholes. I must be jesus or something - that's why I have superpowers!
And what are the 'real' issues according to you anyway? Not that tor is a scam funded by the pentagon eh? That's not a real issue I guess...? Or is that the issue I've 'obscured'? Or what.
Yeah, not expecting you to say anything reasonable at this point...
with your over the top TORBOT TORBOT TORBOT responses any time the word is mentioned.
You are starting to sound like a torbot john. You were a tor accomplice too, no?
I've seen your posts, they are not technical in nature.
Hey stupid piece of shit, this list is about crpyo ANARCHY.
Right, but I’m talking about your hatred for the CRYPTO list, you ass.
And I'm talking about a bunch of censors and establishment clowns pretending to be against it. I can also talk about your love for a bunch of censors. So?
You don't have to be such a defensive ass about it, but hey, you think climate change is a hoax too, so I'd say you are basically a fucking lost cause at this point.
I say you are an ignorant nerd who thinks that any sort of pseudo technical bullshit is Holy Science. You are just a recycled christian.
You like to use the word nerd to describe anyone interested in technical matters?
No, I'm using it that way with you. Looks like you can't even read? I bothered to qualify "nerd" for your especial kind =)
Pro censorship peie of shit, parroting pro-censorship propaganda in 'cryto' 'anarchsit' circles.
You are a…hoax.
I never said anything pro-censorship.
Except for supporting the censoring 'policies' of the 'cryptography' mailing cesspool. Come on. You can't be that stupid...or dishonest.
I said YOU DONT GET TO DECIDE HOW OTHER PEOPLE CONFIGURE THEIR SOFTWARE. It’s not UP TO YOU, jackass. I’ve never endorsed moderation for this list.
Not for this list. Did I say you endorse it for this list? No I didn't, lying retard. On the other hand, have you talked against people like quinn? Well you didn't do that either...
At any rate, you endorse it for the 'cryptography' mailing list. So how retarded can you be to say something in one message and try to deny it in the next one?
"OTHER PEOPLE CONFIGURE THEIR SOFTWARE"
Isn't software 'free'? Oh, 'free' software gives 'admins' the divine right to censorship. You make so much sense...
And parroting the lines others have just thrown at you gets you no points (“You are a… hoax”)
You are a hoax John. A pro-censorship hoax. Oh wait, I can't use that line? It's been copyright by the PDF Philosopher Mirimir? Sorry, please don't sue!
At any rate, your reaction to russian propaganda doesn't speak too well of you, just like it doesn't speak too well of Google Inc. representatives.
And your reaction speaks volumes about you. First you replied by immediately throwing your comrades under the bus,
Except they are not my comrades.
The list archives would seem to say otherwise.
No, only liars say otherwise.
Here's my take on russia...qouted by one "John Newman". And agreed with! =)
https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/029267.html
By the way, first you accuse me of being part of a circle jerk that posts russian propaganda. But if deny it (and you know the accusation is false), then I'm throwing my comrades under the bus. So whether I am pro-russia...or not...I'm guilty anyway =)
You should get a job as state prosecutor...
now you seem to want back in the circle jerk?
What about you don't having a clue, and either not understanding my position or just lying about it.
Bottom line you are way more pro amerikka thatn I'm pro russia. Hardly surprising sice you are an americunt.
You argue like a child. I’m “more pro-america” than you are “pro-russia”… which is utter fucking bullshit, and I think you know it. Show one time I’ve ever endorsed america.
You seem to be trying the "everybody is as bad as the U.S." line.
If that's not the case, you could have dealt with the stuff Zen posts in a rational way. You didn't. Your mistake.
This entire thread is such a fucking waste of time.
So go fuck yourself. I'm sure you can write a three line bash script to hack the NSA. Go for it.
Same to you Juan :)
I'm not delusional and think the NSA can be 'hacked' =)
Is there ANYONE on this list that you haven’t gotten into a massive flame war with? Anyone besides your Russian Alex-Jones-loving “global warming is a hoax" comrades, I mean…. You have to ask yourself, when its you against EVERYONE, is the problem really with EVERYONE else, or is the problem, perhaps, with YOU ?
Oh yes. I'm not "well adapted" to your circle jerk of fake 'hackers' on the pentagon's payroll and Leading Establishment Americunts like those of the crypto ML.
You want people to parrot only what the gang leaders allow to be parroted eh John? That's the reason why you 'love' the fully censored 'cryptography' mailing list =)
I’m done talking to you. Respond if you want, but I’m not wasting any more time on your fucking nonsense.
At least it makes more sense than your own nonsense =)
Like I said, now show what amazing hacker you are and how you are going to hack the pentagon...Focus on the 'technical' stuff...
John
On Oct 16, 2016 4:05 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
I say you are an ignorant nerd who thinks that any sort of pseudo
technical bullshit is Holy Science. You are just a recycled christian. People > Technology, always. But Science always was my real religion, my dear Juan. I have real faith that technology can make the world better, minimizing the human misery. I don't care about being a low profile nerd. It only means I recognize the importance of technical knowledge to help the people. If you want to see the climate changes in person, spend some time in my country. It's very shocking see in person how the weather is becoming extremely crazy in the last years. If you want to know austistic persons or Asperger Syndrome bearers in person and interact with them, please, visit my city. It will be a pleasure to show you that it is _not_ simply shyness, but something much more complex. I won't have patience, time and health enough for a flame war with you now, but I would like to remember you that there are zillions of interpretations of the same facts, my dear. Personally, I try to respect _all_ the sincere Human Searches for Answers, using Science, Religions or whatever. People are nothing without curiosity. Take care and have lovely days and nights, my dear Juan. Sincere kisses and hugs! <3 And, please, no flame wars for now. We all need a bit of peace and gentleness, time for having good ideas to protect everybody's rights to privacy and freedom of speech and expression... and destroy or really change governments, of course! <3 Ceci
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 05:57:43 -0200 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 16, 2016 4:05 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
I say you are an ignorant nerd who thinks that any sort of pseudo
technical bullshit is Holy Science. You are just a recycled christian.
People > Technology, always. But Science always was my real religion, my dear Juan. I have real faith that technology can make the world better, minimizing the human misery.
Yes, moral issues take precendence over mere technical facts. So, having 'faith' in technology doesn't make sense. Plus, it's quite obvious that technology can be used to kill and control the biggest number of people in the most 'efficient' way. And that is exactly what's happening right now thanks to your 'friends' at google and the rest of 'captains' of 'industry'.
I don't care about being a low profile nerd. It only means I recognize the importance of technical knowledge to help the people.
Or to destroy them.
If you want to see the climate changes in person, spend some time in my country.
You don't get it.
It's very shocking see in person how the weather is becoming extremely crazy in the last years.
If you want to know austistic persons or Asperger Syndrome bearers
I already explained the issue. Check the archives.
in person and interact with them, please, visit my city. It will be a pleasure to show you that it is _not_ simply shyness, but something much more complex.
I won't have patience, time and health enough for a flame war with you now,
Fine. There's no point in you parroting for the Nth time the same commonplace nonsense. I get all the establishmente views. There isn't anything 'punk' in parroting propaganda.
but I would like to remember you that there are zillions of interpretations of the same facts, my dear.
So anything you say is just 'your opinion' and 'interpretation'. It is not true. End of the Game.
Personally, I try to respect _all_ the sincere Human Searches for Answers, using Science, Religions or whatever. People are nothing without curiosity.
Take care and have lovely days and nights, my dear Juan. Sincere kisses and hugs! <3
And, please, no flame wars for now. We all need a bit of peace and gentleness, time for having good ideas to protect everybody's rights to privacy and freedom of speech and expression... and destroy or really change governments, of course! <3
Ceci
On Oct 18, 2016 3:57 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
So, having 'faith' in technology doesn't make sense.
Faith in people, faith in science, faith in technology, my dear Juan. Always hoping the people can create better technologies, more precise methods and systems and use them for saving lives, for making the world more human, fairer, with less pain and crying. A world without the human misery: wars, hunger, diseases, lack of potable water, etc...
Plus, it's quite obvious that technology can be used to kill and
control the biggest number of people in the most 'efficient' way. People don't need any technology to kill each other and manipulate, control innocent lives using menaces, fear, cruelty... :(
And that is exactly what's happening right now thanks to your
I don't care about being a low profile nerd. It only means I recognize
'friends' at google and the rest of 'captains' of 'industry'. So change this, make something to fight against the death of the privacy, instead complaining about Google using a gmail account, my dear. the importance of technical knowledge to help the people.
Or to destroy them.
I can use my knifes to cook or to kill. My choice, my responsability, dear. You can use the same instruments and ideas in different ways.
There isn't anything 'punk' in parroting propaganda.
Why do you think my thoughts are 'propaganda' and not yours, my dear?
So anything you say is just 'your opinion' and 'interpretation'. It is not true. End of the Game.
Why is it not true, dear? It's my opinion, but there are several different opinions in the world about the same facts. Points of view are very subjective, influenced by personal backgrounds and beliefs. I can't say with absolute and complete certain that my opinion is the only real truth. Tolerance and respect, my dear.
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 23:28:06 -0200 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 18, 2016 3:57 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
So, having 'faith' in technology doesn't make sense.
Faith in people, faith in science, faith in technology, my dear Juan. Always hoping the people can create better technologies, more precise methods and systems and use them for saving lives, for making the world more human, fairer, with less pain and crying. A world without the human misery: wars, hunger, diseases, lack of potable water, etc...
Handwaving bullshit.
Plus, it's quite obvious that technology can be used to kill and
control the biggest number of people in the most 'efficient' way.
People don't need any technology to kill each other and manipulate, control innocent lives using menaces, fear, cruelty... :(
So what. You talked about science as if it were to solve moral problams. It won't. But it can't make them worse. so now you ignroe that? You FAIL.
And that is exactly what's happening right now thanks to your
'friends' at google and the rest of 'captains' of 'industry'.
So change this, make something to fight against the death of the privacy, instead complaining about Google using a gmail account, my dear.
People like you are the problem. My using a gmail account is irrelevant. I don't go around praising google and their piece-of-shit employees, like you do.
I don't care about being a low profile nerd. It only means I recognize the importance of technical knowledge to help the people.
Or to destroy them.
I can use my knifes to cook or to kill.
Yes, so your original comment about technology is wrong. My choice, my responsability,
dear. You can use the same instruments and ideas in different ways.
There isn't anything 'punk' in parroting propaganda.
Why do you think my thoughts are 'propaganda' and not yours, my dear?
So anything you say is just 'your opinion' and 'interpretation'. It is not true. End of the Game.
Why is it not true, dear?
None of what you say is true, as per your own premise.
It's my opinion, but there are several different opinions in the world about the same facts.
Facts? What's that? Is your opinion that there are real facts out there? Well, that's just another opinion isn't it?
Points of view are very subjective, influenced by personal backgrounds and beliefs. I can't say with absolute and complete certain that my opinion is the only real truth. Tolerance and respect, my dear.
Tolerance and respect are just 'opinions' And since you are 'tolerant' to all kind of fucked up things I don't think your 'tolerance' has much value. Give my regards to all your google 'friends'.
On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 20:46:51 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
What’s your problem with the crypto list? Too much technical talk? Not enough Russian propaganda?
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'. And now ask yourself what kind of 'crypto' 'anarchist' would not be bothered by such travesty...? Ah yes, the cryptography list is great, you and gilmore say so, and the real heresy is not censorship but mocking your global-hoax.
John
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material, and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct. Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship. If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum. -- Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com>
I thought spam filtering was generally automated by a machine without an opinion on social issues and moderation was basically the censorship of messages based on the whim of a human? On 15 October 2016 11:41:17 GMT+01:00, "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material, and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct.
Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship. If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum.
-- Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com>
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On 10/15/2016 03:41 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material, and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct.
Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship. If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum.
I agree with that. Absolutely. It stops about there too. Rr
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 07:37:12 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/15/2016 03:41 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material, and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct.
Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship. If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum.
I agree with that. Absolutely. It stops about there too.
What do you agree with, exactly? You agree with quinn's fascist vomits?
Rr
On 10/15/2016 07:04 PM, juan wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 07:37:12 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/15/2016 03:41 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material, and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct.
Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship. If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum.
I agree with that. Absolutely. It stops about there too.
What do you agree with, exactly? You agree with quinn's fascist vomits?
That advertising is spam.
knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin,
I thought that was pretty clear. Rr
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 19:15:11 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/15/2016 07:04 PM, juan wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 07:37:12 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/15/2016 03:41 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material, and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct.
Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship. If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum.
I agree with that. Absolutely. It stops about there too.
What do you agree with, exactly? You agree with quinn's fascist vomits?
That advertising is spam.
knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin,
I thought that was pretty clear.
Well, since you quoted the whole thing, I wasn't too sure...Thanks for the clarification.
Rr
On 10/15/2016 07:04 PM, juan wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 07:37:12 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 10/15/2016 03:41 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material, and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct.
Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship. If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum.
I agree with that. Absolutely. It stops about there too.
What do you agree with, exactly? You agree with quinn's fascist vomits?
Try here, for what I EXACTLY agree with. https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-October/032938.html Rr
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 05:41:17 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2016-10-14 at 22:24 -0300, #$%& wrote:
To be more precise. Expect to find absolutely no russian propaganda, because that list is fully 'moderated'. That is, censored. And expect it to contain loads of american propaganda, which the 'moderators', aka censors, simply consider to be 'ontopic' 'morally perfect' 'legitimate' 'content'.
Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is the selective approval of messages so that a forum is not effectively censored by the prevalence of off-topic material
Censorship is to prevent people from speaking freely. Only 'list owners' and 'administrators' can do that. The fact that somebody posts stuff you don't like has absolutely nothing to do with censorship. The fact that I post XXXX DOESN'T prevent you from posting YYYY. Only sombedoy who is crazy(detached from reality), incredibly stupid...or trolling, would make the patently false assertion you made.
and to maintain standards of decorum and conduct.
You are an american nazi, quinn. You are io no position to speak about decoroum.
Moderation, when done properly, is actually the *prevention* of constructive censorship.
Or perhaps you are a bot. 'Constructive censorship'? Sounds like a machine generated 'concept'...
If this list were to be overrun by spam for knock-off Ray-Ban and Oakley sunglasses, penis enlargement pills, Dr. Oz approved acai berry diet pills, or even ads for VPNs that accept payments in Bitcoin, I'm sure most of you would demand something be done to protect the integrity of the forum.
AND IF MY AUNT HAD BALLS SHE'D BE MY UNCLE. Tell us quinn what to do with people like you, who post very stupid 'defenses' of CENSORSHIP in an allegedly crypto-anarchist mailing list?
Tell us quinn what to do with people like you, who post very stupid 'defenses' of CENSORSHIP in an allegedly crypto-anarchist mailing list?
He's differentiating between floods of off-topic material which acts to censor real discussion by hiding it in noise vs. removing discussion which simply doesn't agree with some (explicit or implicit) preferential view. You have to admit that it's different, si? \0x
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 16:14:59 -0500 Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
Tell us quinn what to do with people like you, who post very stupid 'defenses' of CENSORSHIP in an allegedly crypto-anarchist mailing list?
He's differentiating between floods of off-topic material which acts to censor real discussion by hiding it in noise vs. removing discussion which simply doesn't agree with some (explicit or implicit) preferential view.
You have to admit that it's different, si?
So you failed to understand all the points I made, or are you just trolling me?
\0x
Tell us quinn what to do with people like you, who post very stupid 'defenses' of CENSORSHIP in an allegedly crypto-anarchist mailing list?
He's differentiating between floods of off-topic material which acts to censor real discussion by hiding it in noise vs. removing discussion which simply doesn't agree with some (explicit or implicit) preferential view.
So you failed to understand all the points I made, or are you just trolling me?
Actually, I incorporated your points, figuring they were too simple to enumerate and incorporated them within the last sentence of the first paragraph. 'Nuff said. \0x
On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 16:31:04 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
Tell us quinn what to do with people like you, who post very stupid 'defenses' of CENSORSHIP in an allegedly crypto-anarchist mailing list?
He's differentiating between floods of off-topic material which acts to censor real discussion by hiding it in noise vs. removing discussion which simply doesn't agree with some (explicit or implicit) preferential view.
So you failed to understand all the points I made, or are you just trolling me?
Actually, I incorporated your points, figuring they were too simple to enumerate and incorporated them within the last sentence of the first paragraph.
Should I take that as mmeaning that you see and understand that quinn is nothing but a crass apologist of censorship and that his 'argument' for it is nonsensical at best, or just trolling? Because what I'm getting from your two messages is that you didn't mention the points I made (you explicityl deleted them) and you followed quinn's wrong analogy about spam. So for completness' sake. SPAM has LITTLE TO DO WITH THE CENSORSHIP ISSUE. Blocking mass, unsolicited advertising, sent by machines is not the same thing as blocking INDIVIDUAL messages from PEOPLE based on POLITICAL grounds. "He's differentiating between..." No he isn't. He wants people to go from "blocking spam is OK" to "blocking whatever I want to block is OK". You don't get that, or what. "You have to admit that it's different, si? WHAT is differnt? I have to admit that you are either agreeing with quinn, or if you are agreeing with me, you are doing it in a very cryptic way. Oh OK, since one of the topics here is cryptography, you post cryptic remarks? Makes sense somehow...or other.
'Nuff said.
\0x
On 10/15/2016 02:14 PM, Xer0Dynamite wrote:
He's differentiating between floods of off-topic material which acts to censor real discussion by hiding it in noise
One geek's 'noise' is another geek's datastream. Tail-ending, boilerplate postings of mbs of non-related info, other ploys for attention ... all those things go back to the inception of lists, forums, comment trees. The people DOING THAT are, in a way, attempting to censor the flow of information. I alway make them for mentally ill individuals, people with an axe to grind about the individuals on the list (see point 1), or cops trying to crudely disrupt the topic at hand or the forum's operations. I personalty believe humans CAN distinguish a legitimate difference and act appropriately on it. I just don't see it happen that way very often in reality. Rr
Tell us quinn what to do with people like you, who post very stupid 'defenses' of CENSORSHIP in an allegedly crypto-anarchist mailing list?
He's differentiating between floods of off-topic material which acts to censor real discussion by hiding it in noise vs. removing discussion which simply doesn't agree with some (explicit or implicit) preferential view.
You have to admit that it's different, si?
\0x
On 10/14/2016 03:19 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 10/13/2016 07:50 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
He lost me when he started rambling on with his homespun automotive metaphors /way/ past the point where they became meaningless noise, referencing nothing.
But I kept reading anyway, until he REALLY lost me:
Agenda 21 demands, such as deregulating or removing the laws that have provided ethical guidance for foreign corporations in this country, have been responsible for the attitudes we see in our banking institutions, such as 'Can do' or 'We live in your world', when dealing with their clients, as recent inquiries have exposed, and are still being ignored by this government.
The gentleman apparently can't distinguish between Agenda 21 - a model charter for local sovereignty with regard to land use, resource extraction and commercial development - from the TPP, a binding treaty whose principal feature is the eradication of local sovereignty, as falsely attributed to Agenda 21 above.
Disinformation shops that push the belief that global warming is a hoax, also uniformly represent Agenda 21 as a conspiracy to establish a One World Government.
HAR Matey! THIS is Agenda21:
"We came to Henningsvaer. We saw the Skarbakk. We sank the bastard.”
(and:)
“Norway announced an increased quota of Minke whales so we decided to increase our quota of sunken whalers.”
Time is Short: Twenty Years of Sabotage & Agenda 21 December 5, 2012 Deep Green Resistance News Service http://dgrnewsservice.org/resistance/strategy/time-is-short-twenty-years-of-... The OTHER “Agenda 21” is nothing more that a ploy to shift the natural ecosystem damage to the third world and extractive resource nations. Rr
participants (14)
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\0xDynamite -
Cecilia Tanaka -
John Newman -
juan -
Mirimir -
oshwm -
Razer -
Shawn K. Quinn -
Steve Kinney -
Tom -
Xer0Dynamite
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xorcist＠sigaint.org -
Zenaan Harkness -
Александр