Good to hear someone being healthily sceptical about it. If you think of Bitnation of inspirational/theoretical arts project its kind of cute. Though proof of existence that was the only thing that they were showing of is definitely not a Bitnation thing. The problem is if a project like that claims to provide or at least to try to build any infrastructure - is misleading. I also find it sad when someone puts a brand on ideas and concept developed by someone else. A problem is that a lot of blockchain-romantic kids rave about Bitnation and just get excited about the wrong thing really - a shiny turd.

On 22 Sep 2015, at 6:19 pm, Brenda Fernández wrote:

This Bitnation think looks like a shiny turd. And has been going on for a while.

The few things they actually do are not new in idea nor implementation. The rest is either crap (like 'we offer visa prepaid cards nao') or marketing smoke. The real bitcoin happens on #bitcoin-assets, not in these peripheral scampanies.

Scammers will tell you that the blockchain will suck you off and resolve your decentralized disputes in the shiny cloud of the internet of things, or any such nonsense shit, if they expect to get money/attention/press for it.

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On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:19 AM, wrote: It seems like there's a confusion between contracts and cryotocontracts?

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On 10 Sep 2015, at 7:19 am, cypherpunks-request@cpunks.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Lodewijk andré de la porte) 2. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Bryan Bishop) 3. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Martin Becze) 4. Repbin release v0.0.2 (ryan.pear@ownbay.net) 5. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (jim bell) 6. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia (rysiek) 7. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia (Juan) 8. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (rysiek) 9. Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Rich Jones) 10. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Ben Mezger) 11. John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party (grarpamp) 12. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (grarpamp)

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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:30:53 +0200 From: Lodewijk andré de la porte To: Mirimir Cc: "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.

I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends to. Everyone loves ideas that Bitnation put their brand on.

I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings. Exactly. Proof-of-existence. I don't understand what it has to do with Bitnation brand. Someone just wants to look cool. What exactly Bitnationare building?

Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.

I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better explained in contract. Yes. Obligations can be explained. Still people go to courts and dispute contracts. These are text. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Contracts which go on the blockchain have nothing to do with legal contracts. Parts of the text (legal) contracts can be hooked to a smart contract I guess. I guess if a married couple has a dispute over digital property or btc in a wallet, let's say a script can manage it, but how the script (smart contract) will know who in this particular dispute did what. Even with no details and subtleties involved. Generic. Neat. Unpretentious.

Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off. Ideas are nice. They're not necessarily coming from Bitnation. Proof of existence, or Blockchain ID for example were existing ideas which had functioning prototypes. They just don't make it sound grandiose.

Bitnation has a claim to be a software project and afaik has a presale of a currency - either premined or non existent - I don't remember. I'm fine with that type of crowdfunding if there is some sort of product or a service behind it or an attempt to build it. I don't think that contemporary art project should pretend to be a software project or pretend that it can realistically offer serious services or replace existing ones. It's cool as a concept project.

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