This Bitnation think looks like a shiny turd. And has been going on for a while.

The few things they actually do are not new in idea nor implementation. The rest is either crap (like 'we offer visa prepaid cards nao') or marketing smoke. The real bitcoin happens on #bitcoin-assets, not in these peripheral scampanies.

Scammers will tell you that the blockchain will suck you off and resolve your decentralized disputes in the shiny cloud of the internet of things, or any such nonsense shit, if they expect to get money/attention/press for it.



On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:19 AM, <tigrutigru@gmail.com> wrote:
It seems like there's a confusion between contracts and cryotocontracts?

> On 10 Sep 2015, at 7:19 am, cypherpunks-request@cpunks.org wrote:
>
> Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
>      (Lodewijk andré de la porte)
>   2. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Bryan Bishop)
>   3. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Martin Becze)
>   4. Repbin release v0.0.2 (ryan.pear@ownbay.net)
>   5. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (jim bell)
>   6. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>      Russia (rysiek)
>   7. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>      Russia (Juan)
>   8. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (rysiek)
>   9. Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Rich Jones)
>  10. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Ben Mezger)
>  11. John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
>      (grarpamp)
>  12. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (grarpamp)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:30:53 +0200
> From: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l@odewijk.nl>
> To: Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net>
> Cc: "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> Message-ID:
>    <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
>
> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends to.
Everyone loves ideas that Bitnation put their brand on.
>
> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
Exactly. Proof-of-existence. I don't understand what it has to do with Bitnation brand. Someone just wants to look cool. What exactly Bitnationare building?
>
> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
>
> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
> explained in contract.
Yes. Obligations can be explained. Still people go to courts and dispute contracts. These are text.
> Contracts can go onto a blockchain.
Contracts which go on the blockchain have nothing to do with legal contracts. Parts of the text (legal) contracts can be hooked to a smart contract I guess.
I guess if a married couple has a dispute over digital property or btc in a wallet, let's say a script can manage it, but how the script (smart contract) will know who in this particular dispute did what. Even with no details and subtleties involved.
> Generic. Neat.
> Unpretentious.
>
> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
Ideas are nice. They're not necessarily coming from Bitnation. Proof of existence, or Blockchain ID for example were existing ideas which had functioning prototypes. They just don't make it sound grandiose.

Bitnation has a claim to be a software project and afaik has a presale of a currency - either premined or non existent - I don't remember. I'm fine with that type of crowdfunding if there is some sort of product or a service behind it or an attempt to build it. I don't think that contemporary art project should pretend to be a software project or pretend that it can realistically offer serious services or replace existing ones. It's cool as a concept project.


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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:39:51 -0500
> From: Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com>
> To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l@odewijk.nl>, Bryan Bishop
>    <kanzure@gmail.com>
> Cc: "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> Message-ID:
>    <CABaSBax3zoGtBbegRTp-sXU6TspAF6MuRQXo1Q4QH7UX8jjuTw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l@odewijk.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
>
>
> http://cointelegraph.com/news/112725/bitnation-core-dev-team-resigns-speaks-out-before-crowdsale
>
> - Bryan
> http://heybryan.org/
> 1 512 203 0507
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:41:56 +0000
> From: Martin Becze <mjbecze@gmail.com>
> To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l@odewijk.nl>
> Cc: "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> Message-ID:
>    <CALz06g5h4ETE3bnKdKbXCDnNvHUCnAFWXgXK=86tEaXfZs7i5g@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>> somewhat off
> Yeah the founder went/is crazy, there is no technical work done and all of
> the developers that were working on the project quite.
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l@odewijk.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
>>
>> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
>> to.
>>
>> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
>> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
>> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
>>
>> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
>> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
>>
>> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
>> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
>> explained in contract. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Generic. Neat.
>> Unpretentious.
>>
>> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:53:35 +0000
> From: ryan.pear@ownbay.net
> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
> Message-ID: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> We're happy to announce the release v0.0.2 of Repbin:
> The replicated, encrypted, distributed and anonymized pastebin.
>
> Changes include: Better terminal usability, sqlite/mysql backend,
> binaries!
>
> Check here for release source code and client binaries:
> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/releases/tag/v0.0.2
>
> About Repbin:
> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
>
> Learn more about Repbin here:
> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:48:56 +0000 (UTC)
> From: jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com>
> To: "ryan.pear@ownbay.net" <ryan.pear@ownbay.net>,
>    "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> Message-ID:
>    <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>> About Repbin:
>> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
>> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
>> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
>> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
>> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
>> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
>> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
>> Learn more about Repbin here:
>> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work with the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?  The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is valuable to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a bitcoin-mining engine, I don't know.              Jim Bell
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> From: rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl>
> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>    Russia
> Message-ID: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
>> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
>> documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."
>>
>> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
>> Board of Governors propaganda beat.
>
> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't automagically make B
> not evil.
>
> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia don't
> really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia magically
> okay.
>
> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because USA-Russia
> relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
>
> --
> Pozdrawiam,
> Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
>
> Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 20:02:34 -0300
> From: Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com>
> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>    Russia
> Message-ID: <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5@mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>
>> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
>>> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing
>>> Snowden documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to
>>> the US."
>>>
>>> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the
>>> Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda beat.
>>
>> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't
>> automagically make B not evil.
>
>
>    Kindly point out where  JY said the russian government was not
>    evil.
>
>>
>> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia
>> don't really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia
>> magically okay.
>
>
>    Kindly point out where JY said that what's happening in russia
>    (whatever that is) is okay.
>
>
>    On the other hand rysiek given your laughable & constant
>    defense of the pentagon-funded tor-cunts, you are not really in
>    a position to be pointing too many fingers.
>
>>
>> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
>> USA-Russia relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
>
>    ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:47:31 +0200
> From: rysiek <rysiek@hackerspace.pl>
> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> Message-ID: <6193628.0yFTp10ebS@lapuntu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 21:48:56 jim bell pisze:
>>> About Repbin:
>>> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
>>> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
>>> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
>>> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
>>> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
>>> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
>>> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
>>> Learn more about Repbin here:
>>> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
>>
>> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work with
>> the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?
>
> My dream would be a distributed github replacement (a'la gitchain) where
> proof-of-work is somehow related to compilation, running tests, or somesuch.
>
>> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a
>> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is valuable
>> to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a bitcoin-mining
>> engine, I don't know.
>
> Probably not -- the "thing" mined has to be easily verifiable by other nodes.
> How does one verify a weather forecast in such a setting? ;)
>
> --
> Pozdrawiam,
> Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
>
> Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:08:09 -0700
> From: Rich Jones <rich@openwatch.net>
> To: "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
> Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> Message-ID:
>    <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
>
> "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new foreign
> hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
>
> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
>
> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
>
> R
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:25:29 -0300
> From: Ben Mezger <mezger.benjamin@gmail.com>
> To: miserlou@gmail.com
> Cc: "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> Message-ID: <m2a8sv3w1i.fsf@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hmm,
>
> "Excuse me @telegram but ISIS are using YOUR network/application to sell
> hostage. Please find more info. on that number!!"
>
> Well, I would agree with that, but that would probably break Telegram's
> policy of "privacy", no?
>
> Rich Jones writes:
>
>> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
>>
>> "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new foreign
>> hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
>>
>> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
>>
>> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
>>
>> R
>
> --
> Sent with my mu4e
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:16:48 -0400
> From: grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>
> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
> Message-ID:
>    <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> https://mcafee16.com/
> http://cyberparty.org/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
> http://www.whoismcafee.com/
> http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
> https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
> https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
> http://johnmcafeestory.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:18:50 -0400
> From: grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>
> To: "cypherpunks@cpunks.org" <cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> Message-ID:
>    <CAD2Ti29=9pK1sMjiu1+YGOMrPexrHpEk4mb36HF4ZxKj6mvY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Rich Jones <rich@openwatch.net> wrote:
>> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmBNVMk_AGs
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surespot
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickr
> https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/06/07/developers-silence-raises-concern-about-surespot-encrypted-messenger/
>
> https://twitter.com/cybercaliphate
> https://twitter.com/search?q=cybercaliphate
> https://twitter.com/search?q=cyphercaliphate
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COOxuq-WIAAG8pQ.jpg
> https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cyber+caliphate
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/Anonymous+vs+the+ISIS+Cyber+Caliphate++War+in+the+Middle+East+Goes+Digital/article37154.htm
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/isis-hacker-group-cyber-caliphate-hacks-article-1.2067634
> https://news.vice.com/article/the-islamic-states-top-hacker-was-killed-in-a-us-drone-strike
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junaid_Hussain
> https://www.youtube.com/user/TeaMp0ison/videos
> http://homeland.house.gov/sites/homeland.house.gov/files/documents/06-03-15-McCaul-Open.pdf
> https://twitter.com/p_vanostaeyen/status/639165071072038913
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7FPdKXAAEucGl.jpg
> https://twitter.com/lorenzoFB/status/638818414958477312
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-launches-secret-drone-campaign-to-hunt-islamic-state-leaders-in-syria/2015/09/01/723b3e04-5033-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html
>
>
>> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
>> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WwAAmKzB.jpg
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WIAAJGAg.jpg
> +9647705648252
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> cypherpunks mailing list
> cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 27, Issue 14
> *******************************************




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