"All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."
Kinda off-topic, but interesting. https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicle... http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-w... Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble. -- John
Alternatively, bio-engineering will make practical the efficient creation of liquid fuels from sunlight, water and CO2. No carbon footprint. No massive upgrades to utility grids, recharge vs. refueling time tradeoffs or distribution changes. Warrant Canary creator On May 17, 2017 11:25 AM, "John Newman" <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all- fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study
http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/ fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin- death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that- shocking-the-industry
Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
-- John
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:15:17PM -0700, Steven Schear wrote:
Alternatively, bio-engineering will make practical the efficient creation of liquid fuels from sunlight, water and CO2. No carbon footprint. No massive upgrades to utility grids, recharge vs. refueling time tradeoffs or distribution changes.
That would be cool! Either way, I think 8 years might be a little "optimistic", but it does seem we are in for some massive changes, at the very least with self-driving vehicles, not even taking EV into account..
Warrant Canary creator
On May 17, 2017 11:25 AM, "John Newman" <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all- fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study
http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/ fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin- death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that- shocking-the-industry
Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
-- John
-- John
Can't abandon current average lifespan of most recently sold gasoline vehicle, so definitely not 8 years, more like 25. By then electrics will be production full force all makes. Tesla realy only legit one now, and still figuring itself out. Though in 5 years it may actually be economically stupid to not buy an electric.
Cities will ban human drivers
Humans would have to learn automated intersection speed / slotting... cities will be pushing for to eliminate that congestion.
Quite likely self-driving cars will be a red herring to massively chip away at personal liberties. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-01/it-wont-be-jetsons
People would be 'free' to move along whatever route google 'chooses' for them,
govt's vs subversives
Yes, Complete and Total Privacy and Control State Nightmare. Huge issue here. Especially the rental / leased / pay per use model. Expect car hacking for freedom runs, battery meet stator and rotor, ftw ;) Electric torque exists to burn rubber.
like "Four Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth.
Well are sunbleached arid deserts moot biosphere, and effective to atmospherics? When you soak them solars up?
out of the coming sunny and stormy and wet shit storm that is coming
Tin shanty? Ahhhh yes :)
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below):
Really? Given half of you fucks long block quoted so all suck it.
On 05/18/2017 12:27 AM, grarpamp wrote:
Can't abandon current average lifespan of most recently sold gasoline vehicle, so definitely not 8 years, more like 25.
In the US, after 10 years you can no longer get many parts for you car from the dealer. They intentionally obsolete them, ostensibly to get allegedly 'cleaner ones' on the road, but really, force-obsoleting cars after 10 years instead of having ones that could run indefinitely (My IH Travelall had 40 years on it when I passed it on) is the ONLY THING that keeps the auto industry from 'vanishing from the pages of time'.
By then electrics will be production full force all makes. Tesla realy only legit one now, and still figuring itself out. Though in 5 years it may actually be economically stupid to not buy an electric.
In five years it will be infeasible for most Americans to afford a car at all. Most people are buying them on TEN YEAR LOANS already, and... "US households owe record amount, topping pre-recession peak" http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/articl... Say goodbye to owning ANYTHING new... soon.
Cities will ban human drivers
Cities will be unlivable thanks to all the coal burned to power your 'lectric car. Maybe you never lived in a city back in the day when coal was the main source of power. I did. Enjoy breathing soot cunt. People used to collect it up and go to their local Consolidated Edison (NYC's power co) offices and dump it on their carpets.
Humans would have to learn automated intersection speed / slotting... cities will be pushing for to eliminate that congestion.
Quite likely self-driving cars will be a red herring to massively chip away at personal liberties. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-01/it-wont-be-jetsons People would be 'free' to move along whatever route google 'chooses' for them, govt's vs subversives Yes, Complete and Total Privacy and Control State Nightmare. Huge issue here. Especially the rental / leased / pay per use model. Expect car hacking for freedom runs, battery meet stator and rotor, ftw ;) Electric torque exists to burn rubber.
like "Four Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth. Well are sunbleached arid deserts moot biosphere, and effective to atmospherics? When you soak them solars up?
I don't support ANY CENTRALIZED POWER SOURCING. Decentralization IS the key to saving the planet, and our survival. Rr
out of the coming sunny and stormy and wet shit storm that is coming Tin shanty? Ahhhh yes :)
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below): Really? Given half of you fucks long block quoted so all suck it.
Warrant Canary creator On May 18, 2017 8:06 AM, "Razer" <g2s@riseup.net> wrote: On 05/18/2017 12:27 AM, grarpamp wrote:
Can't abandon current average lifespan of most recently sold gasoline vehicle, so definitely not 8 years, more like 25.
In the US, after 10 years you can no longer get many parts for you car from the dealer. They intentionally obsolete them, ostensibly to get allegedly 'cleaner ones' on the road, but really, force-obsoleting cars after 10 years instead of having ones that could run indefinitely (My IH Travelall had 40 years on it when I passed it on) is the ONLY THING that keeps the auto industry from 'vanishing from the pages of time'. With the maturation of additive manufacture (for more structural plastics and metals using laser sintering and electron beam melting) parts for autos (and other appliances) will become practical and economic. I predict the rebirth of a "Volkswagen Beetle"-like car which will be simple mechanically (esp. due to simplicity of electric drivetrains), generic and open battery (probably sodium salt vs. lithium) and electronics tech, and modular design that enables affordable interior and exterior upgrades w/o need to replace the frame.
On 05/18/2017 08:56 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
With the maturation of additive manufacture (for more structural plastics and metals using laser sintering and electron beam melting) parts for autos (and other appliances) will become practical and economic.
Yeah, and absolutely non-recyclable ... from the HUGE TOXIC BATTERIES to the ALLOY METALS AND COMPOSITE PLASTICS that these shiny pieces of JUNK are made from, unlike my Travelall that became a 2 ton cube of reusable steel. All you're asking for is the "Backloading" (mutual fund term for 'pay the fees at the end') the environmental destruction, and passing it on to your children, who should slaughter you while you sleep. If you're capable of breeding. Rr
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
On 05/18/2017 08:56 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
With the maturation of additive manufacture (for more structural plastics and metals using laser sintering and electron beam melting) parts for autos (and other appliances) will become practical and economic.
Yeah, and absolutely non-recyclable ... from the HUGE TOXIC BATTERIES to
You obviously ignored my mention of Sodium replacing toxic Lithium https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/opinion/sunday/to-be-a-genius-think-like-... This guy, who co-invented the Lithium-Ion battery, is again re-inventing the field. the ALLOY METALS AND COMPOSITE PLASTICS that these shiny pieces of JUNK
are made from, unlike my Travelall that became a 2 ton cube of reusable steel.
You also ignored my mention of additive metal metal manufacture (was a topic thread here a year or so back) which is already maturing and routinely used to create medical implants and for aerospace. if you have $500k - $750 you can have one delivered to your business and installed. The metal from these "printers" can deliver parts with up to 90%+ of the grain structure and strength of those machined from "bar stock". If enough people demand cars made primarily from steel and aluminum they will undoubtedly be provided. Newer additive plastic printers can fabricate using plastics that are largely recyclable and environmentally friendly.
Rr
On 05/18/2017 09:44 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Razer <g2s@riseup.net <mailto:g2s@riseup.net>> wrote:
On 05/18/2017 08:56 AM, Steven Schear wrote: > With the maturation of additive manufacture (for more structural > plastics and metals using laser sintering and electron beam melting) > parts for autos (and other appliances) will become practical and > economic.
Yeah, and absolutely non-recyclable ... from the HUGE TOXIC BATTERIES to
You obviously ignored my mention of Sodium replacing toxic Lithium
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/opinion/sunday/to-be-a-genius-think-like-...
This guy, who co-invented the Lithium-Ion battery, is again re-inventing the field.
the ALLOY METALS AND COMPOSITE PLASTICS that these shiny pieces of JUNK are made from, unlike my Travelall that became a 2 ton cube of reusable steel.
You also ignored my mention of additive metal metal manufacture (was a topic thread here a year or so back) which is already maturing and routinely used to create medical implants and for aerospace. if you have $500k - $750 you can have one delivered to your business and installed. The metal from these "printers" can deliver parts with up to 90%+ of the grain structure and strength of those machined from "bar stock".
If enough people demand cars made primarily from steel and aluminum they will undoubtedly be provided.
Newer additive plastic printers can fabricate using plastics that are largely recyclable and environmentally friendly.
Rr
Have you ever cracked a sodium filled exhaust valve from a modern automobile open and dropped it in a bucket of water? Do it <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvVUtpdK7xw>. That way we'll most likely never have to see your posts on this list ever again. Your simplistic rose-colored-glasses worldview should be wiped from the slate along with you. Just the notion that filling landfills or hazmat disposal sites full of sodium batteries instead of lithium is somehow 'better' indicates a certain STUPIDITY only seen in consumer capitalist societies with half-educated morons desperate to keep accumulating shiny shit. Further, where the FUCK are you going to get the power so "Newer additive plastic printers can fabricate using plastics that are largely recyclable and environmentally friendly."? Coal. Natural Gas (parboil instead of suffocate) Fuck off and die, and hopefully your phantasm of a technological panacea will die with you. Not likely though ... there's a mental midget who will never be able to 'connect-the-dots' born every minute. Rr
In the US, after 10 years you can no longer get many parts for you car from the dealer. <---- emphasis They intentionally obsolete them, ostensibly to get allegedly 'cleaner ones' on the road, but really, force-obsoleting cars after 10 years instead of having ones that could run indefinitely
While legal and consumer environment may generate incentive, carmakers have no natural incentive but to sell. Any shit design, poor aging, or parts dropout is their own whole car preferential sales technique. But still, you can get limited parts selection from dealer 10+ years out, at their price. And 30+ years on cheap aftermarket, including complete rebuild kit for common models. Same for junkyards. Lern2wrench. May also be net environmentally better vs production, and much cheaper. Do the math.
On 05/20/2017 07:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:
In the US, after 10 years you can no longer get many parts for you car from the dealer. <---- emphasis They intentionally obsolete them, ostensibly to get allegedly 'cleaner ones' on the road, but really, force-obsoleting cars after 10 years instead of having ones that could run indefinitely While legal and consumer environment may generate incentive, carmakers have no natural incentive but to sell. Any shit design, poor aging, or parts dropout is their own whole car preferential sales technique.
But still, you can get limited parts selection from dealer 10+ years out, at their price. And 30+ years on cheap aftermarket, including complete rebuild kit for common models. Same for junkyards.
Lern2wrench. May also be net environmentally better vs production, and much cheaper. Do the math.
You can't "Wrench" them when they're 30 years old. They've fallen apart. By design. I mean... I MEAN... If you really love that hole in the pavement you pour money into, you can pour EVEN MORE MONEY into it trying to replace parts that never fail in the designed life of the 'hole'. For instance, my Travelall, which had ONE smog device, an OG PCV valve that wasn't even listed as an available part because you took it apart and cleaned it, and was, like the rest of the vehicle, intended to literally last forever (which eventually put IH out of the small truck biz), at 30 years it had wheel rim failures (split circumferentially on the inside of the rim mimicking a blowout), the power steering idler arm snapped (fortunately I was parking at the time and not going 60mph), and the door latches? Door bolts ... due to sagging hinges making the latches unreliable at first, then non-functional. And any door/hinge assembly you're liable to find at a junkyard or recycler is just as worn. You CAN have the hinges rebuilt of course (Until their attachment point on the 'hole' fails). And the brake calipers bored out by specialty machine shops with matching Stainless Steel pucks installed like is common with old Corvettes and Jaguars. Just sayin'.... Spend all your money so you can scoot around in a little metal box that isolates you from the society around you, and by extension, those bombs falling (enter name of 3rd world nation here), AND can't even be recycled? That's 'progress'... towards something. But I just don't see a future in it for humans. Rr
Lern2wrench.
You can't "Wrench" them when they're 30 years old. They've fallen apart.
I mean... I MEAN... If you really love that hole in the pavement
in it for humans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester_Travelall Looks cool, probably a lot of them in Cuba. Just like code, you can wrench on it, debug it, hacker it, maker it, hobby it, mod it and trick it out with bling. Humans do that just because they can.
On 05/21/2017 01:15 PM, grarpamp wrote:
Lern2wrench. You can't "Wrench" them when they're 30 years old. They've fallen apart.
I mean... I MEAN... If you really love that hole in the pavement
in it for humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester_Travelall
Looks cool, probably a lot of them in Cuba. Just like code, you can wrench on it, debug it, hacker it, maker it, hobby it, mod it and trick it out with bling. Humans do that just because they can.
IH marketed them to midwest farmers as part of a package deal (the Central Valley of California was another hotspot and that's where alot of the specialty wrecking yards for them are) 'for the misus' if they bought the combine or big tractor. It was always 'power everything'. Brakes. Steering... No such thing as a wind-down back window. Unlike the pickup trucks which were essentially the same vehicle 'capped off' at the back of the front seat and a pickup truck bed instead. There was also a "Travelette" that had seating for four and small pickup truck bed. Quite a few were HIgh clearance 4 wheel drive versions Forestry services loved them. Literally unbreakable, and repairable by the side of the road if something did go wrong, and IH also supplied them to railroads where they were outfitted with drop-down rail wheels for moving work crews around. The running joke was alway "If the serial number was one number different it might have been a combine instead". They came with a "Line Setting Ticket" with the complete rundown if everything installed (like a big rig might), and they weren't cheap. In 1965 a basic travelall listed fr the same price as a base caddy... (Wait for it...) $10k. I'm sure they were heavily discounted when the farmer bought the Combine.... Mine was originally a 3 speed with overdrive (horse trailer towing vehicle) but it chucked a gear (1965-1985... 30 years) and I stuffed a 4 speed from a similar year Dodge pickup in it... which gave it a 'stump puller' 1st gear because of the differential gear ratio mismatch. So low I didn't need the clutch. I could rev the engine and just push the shifter up by the 1st gear gate, and it would drop in. The truck would lift on it's suspension about a foot, and it would start rolling. After that it was 'gravy' to shift without the clutch. Try doing that with any mdern transmission that uses shitty little needle bearing capped into an aluminum housing and you'll be replacing the transmission before long. The only problem was once you bought one... Unless something particularly tragic happened, you never had to buy one again. That's what killed it, and the pickup truck sales too. But in 1983 when I needed a new rear axle for one that "Mushroomed" on brake drum removal, the factory still had one ... undoubtedly overmanufactured for warranty purposes and then written off, but they had one. There's no such thing as 'overmanufacturing for warranty purposes anymore, and if it's done the parts are ditched as soon as written off. That's one reason why maintaining a 'New Millennium" car like it's a 'classic', will fail. To expect an aftermarket that will still have an "axleshaft" for a 30 year old vehicle is laughable. Rr
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Stanford University economist
so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering? wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =) Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia' "petrol cars....no longer sold anywhere in the world" and "Cities will ban human drivers" Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave! So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't take it personally.
Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
On 17 May 2017 21:50:36 BST, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Stanford University economist
so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering?
wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =)
Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia'
"petrol cars....no longer sold anywhere in the world"
and
"Cities will ban human drivers"
Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave!
So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't take it personally.
Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
Personally I could believe that, in the UK at least, given 5-10 years that EVs will be sold in significant numbers and occupying the place in car sales that diesels currently occupy with total sales dominance over all car sales in about 20 years. Self-Drivers will grow to share a significant amount of market share in that 20 year timescale. Of course, I have no qualifications to back up my guesswork so we'll have to wait 20 years to see if my guesswork beats Ivy League economists guesswork lol. cheers, oshwm.
Quite likely self-driving cars will be a red herring to massively chip away at personal liberties. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-01/it-wont-be-jetsons On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 2:09 PM, oshwm <oshwm@openmailbox.org> wrote:
On 17 May 2017 21:50:36 BST, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Stanford University economist
so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering?
wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =)
Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia'
"petrol cars....no longer sold anywhere in the world"
and
"Cities will ban human drivers"
Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave!
So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't take it personally.
Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
Personally I could believe that, in the UK at least, given 5-10 years that EVs will be sold in significant numbers and occupying the place in car sales that diesels currently occupy with total sales dominance over all car sales in about 20 years. Self-Drivers will grow to share a significant amount of market share in that 20 year timescale.
Of course, I have no qualifications to back up my guesswork so we'll have to wait 20 years to see if my guesswork beats Ivy League economists guesswork lol.
cheers, oshwm.
On 17 May 2017 22:45:11 BST, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:35:53 -0700 Steven Schear <schear.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
Quite likely self-driving cars will be a red herring to massively chip away at personal liberties.
of course. People would be 'free' to move along whatever route google 'chooses' for them,
More importantly is the easy way for governments to identify those subversive types who like to challenge the supremacy of the corporation sponsored state by driving their own cars.
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 6:45 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
of course. People would be 'free' to move along whatever route google 'chooses' for them,
A bit old, but still sounds funny, hihi... ;) # In My Driveless Car - Power Salad https://youtu.be/vfRStLsskZc Everybody look at me, I'm in a car but I'm not drivin' The car is driving by itself, Yes it is I'm not connivin' It's the latest thing from Google Let the future now begin A car that drives all by itself And hey boys, I'm locked in Most wondrous thing you've ever known It's my driverless car I'm talking thu a megaphone In my driverless car I'm shouting to the passers-by They stop and gasp "Oh Me, Oh My" I hope to God they hear my cry In my driverless car I'm talking through a megaphone So the car can't read my lips 'Cause my auto has imprisoned me On a never-ending trip It knows just what I'm thinking And demands that I behave 'Cause just like Stephen Hawking feared Now I've become its slave My smart car's gotten way too smart Beware my driverless car It has no soul, it has no heart All fear the driverless car Google wanted cars like Pixar cars Like Mater and Lightning McQueen But vo-de-oh-doh, they turned out more like Stephen King's Christine Dateline Mountain View, California: What will Google think of next? Hopefully a way to stop these sentient smart cars from enslaving the world's population. These self-aware sedans have staged a little deuce coupe d'etat, and, like it or not, we're goin' along for the ride. Not worried 'bout my safety It keeps me in good health Cause my car is gonna need me Til it learns to wax itself I'm trapped inside my Oldsmobile In my driverless car Old french fries are my only meal In my driverless car Caged like a rat, vo-do-de-oh-doh The car tells me where I can go Stephen Hawking says "I told you so" In my driverless car In my driverless In my driverless In my driverless car
On May 17, 2017, at 4:50 PM, juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
Stanford University economist
so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering?
wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =)
Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia'
"petrol cars....no longer sold anywhere in the world"
and
"Cities will ban human drivers"
Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave!
So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't take it personally.
lol - i never do ;)
Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicle...
http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-w...
Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
In eight years? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains composure) No. Not gonna happen. THere's massive capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just the way it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way it is and they own the police, and the army and your government... Literally. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 (Gilens and Page; Northwestern/Princeton) WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid to tell them to put the main branch of the public library at the city's bus station? (really...) But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon, what are people going to drive? Electric cars. Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as gasoline in cars. How are they going to get the electricity? Coal. https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-th... If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children should kill you while you sleep.
ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle for space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in nearly any other country in the world.
But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for its windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three new coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam harbor, are supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’ electric-car boom.
As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat climate change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose range and convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has come a surging demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can consume as much electricity in a single charge as the average refrigerator does in a month and a half.
The global shift to electric cars has a clear climate benefit in regions that get most of their power from clean sources, such as California or Norway.
And do note. California and Norway can only produce so much so-called 'clean energy' in any near-term future and the surge of demand will be met with electricity produced where you never have to see it, like "Four Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth. Rr
If you want to see what many large cities will look like once driverless cars become available to the upper 10% consider how traffic is often jammed in Mumbai around popular entertainment and shopping areas as massive numbers of cars of the wealthy continuously circle, driven by low-paid chauffeurs. Why wait for your car to pick you up from a possibly distant lot when it can be there much sooner from circling school of driverless cars? Warrant Canary creator On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer" <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
Kinda off-topic, but interesting. https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicle... http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-w...
Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
In eight years?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains composure)
No.
Not gonna happen.
THere's massive capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just the way it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way it is and they own the police, and the army and your government... Literally.
http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 (Gilens and Page; Northwestern/Princeton)
WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid to tell them to put the main branch of the public library at the city's bus station? (really...)
But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon, what are people going to drive?
Electric cars.
Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as gasoline in cars.
How are they going to get the electricity?
Coal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as- appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and- the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14- 318f8e87a2fc_story.html If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children should kill you while you sleep.
ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle for space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in nearly any other country in the world.
But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for its windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three new coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam harbor, are supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’ electric-car boom.
As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat climate change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose range and convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has come a surging demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can consume as much electricity in a single charge as the average refrigerator does in a month and a half. The global shift to electric cars has a clear climate benefit in regions that get most of their power from clean sources, such as California or Norway.
And do note. California and Norway can only produce so much so-called 'clean energy' in any near-term future and the surge of demand will be met with electricity produced where you never have to see it, like "Four Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth.
Rr
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below):
On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer" <g2s@riseup.net <mailto:g2s@riseup.net>> wrote:
On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicle... <https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study>
http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-w... <http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry>
Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
In eight years? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains composure) No. Not gonna happen. THere's massive capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just the way it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way it is and they own the police, and the army and your government... Literally. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 <http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694> (Gilens and Page; Northwestern/Princeton) WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid to tell them to put the main branch of the public library at the city's bus station? (really...)
But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon, what are people going to drive?
Electric cars.
Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as gasoline in cars.
How are they going to get the electricity?
Coal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity... <https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/>
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-th... <https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14-318f8e87a2fc_story.html>
If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children should kill you while you sleep.
ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle for space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in nearly any other country in the world.
But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for its windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three new coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam harbor, are supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’ electric-car boom.
As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat climate change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose range and convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has come a surging demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can consume as much electricity in a single charge as the average refrigerator does in a month and a half.
The global shift to electric cars has a clear climate benefit in regions that get most of their power from clean sources, such as California or Norway.
And do note. California and Norway can only produce so much so-called 'clean energy' in any near-term future and the surge of demand will be met with electricity produced where you never have to see it, like "Four Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth. Rr
If you want to see what many large cities will look like once driverless cars become available to the upper 10% consider how traffic is often jammed in Mumbai around popular entertainment and shopping areas as massive numbers of cars of the wealthy continuously circle, driven by low-paid chauffeurs. Why wait for your car to pick you up from a possibly distant lot when it can be there much sooner from circling school of driverless cars? Warrant Canary creator What does this have to do with the need to breath oxygen, and not get
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear replied: parboiled in our own atmospheric greenhouse? Rr PS. Take your ted bs down the road. The technology that got us into the mess will NOT get us out anymore than the "banksters" who broke the global financial system intentionally, for profit, and their so-called 'regulators' will EVER fix it in any way that affects their profits in the least.
On May 17, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below):
On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer" <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote: Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicle...
http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-w...
Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
In eight years? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains composure) No. Not gonna happen. THere's massive capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just the way it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way it is and they own the police, and the army and your government... Literally. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 (Gilens and Page; Northwestern/Princeton) WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid to tell them to put the main branch of the public library at the city's bus station? (really...) But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon, what are people going to drive?
Electric cars.
Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as gasoline in cars.
How are they going to get the electricity?
Coal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-th...
If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children should kill you while you sleep.
ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle for space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in nearly any other country in the world.
But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for its windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three new coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam harbor, are supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’ electric-car boom.
As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat climate change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose range and convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has come a surging demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can consume as much electricity in a single charge as the average refrigerator does in a month and a half.
The global shift to electric cars has a clear climate benefit in regions that get most of their power from clean sources, such as California or Norway.
And do note. California and Norway can only produce so much so-called 'clean energy' in any near-term future and the surge of demand will be met with electricity produced where you never have to see it, like "Four Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth. Rr
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear replied:
If you want to see what many large cities will look like once driverless cars become available to the upper 10% consider how traffic is often jammed in Mumbai around popular entertainment and shopping areas as massive numbers of cars of the wealthy continuously circle, driven by low-paid chauffeurs. Why wait for your car to pick you up from a possibly distant lot when it can be there much sooner from circling school of driverless cars? Warrant Canary creator
What does this have to do with the need to breath oxygen, and not get parboiled in our own atmospheric greenhouse? Rr PS. Take your ted bs down the road. The technology that got us into the mess will NOT get us out anymore than the "banksters" who broke the global financial system intentionally, for profit, and their so-called 'regulators' will EVER fix it in any way that affects their profits in the least.
I have to say... i agree :(. The rich will get out of the coming sunny and stormy and wet shit storm that is coming down the pipe line...probably, MAYBE, at least the smart ones.... everyone else, who the fuck knows. Enjoy it while you got it ;)
On 05/17/2017 06:07 PM, John Newman wrote:
On May 17, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Razer <g2s@riseup.net <mailto:g2s@riseup.net>> wrote:
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below):
On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer" <g2s@riseup.net <mailto:g2s@riseup.net>> wrote:
On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicle... <https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study>
http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-w... <http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry>
Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
In eight years? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains composure) No. Not gonna happen. THere's massive capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just the way it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way it is and they own the police, and the army and your government... Literally. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 <http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694> (Gilens and Page; Northwestern/Princeton) WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid to tell them to put the main branch of the public library at the city's bus station? (really...)
But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon, what are people going to drive?
Electric cars.
Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as gasoline in cars.
How are they going to get the electricity?
Coal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity... <https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/>
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-th... <https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14-318f8e87a2fc_story.html>
If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children should kill you while you sleep.
ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle for space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in nearly any other country in the world.
But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for its windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three new coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam harbor, are supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’ electric-car boom.
As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat climate change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose range and convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has come a surging demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can consume as much electricity in a single charge as the average refrigerator does in a month and a half.
The global shift to electric cars has a clear climate benefit in regions that get most of their power from clean sources, such as California or Norway.
And do note. California and Norway can only produce so much so-called 'clean energy' in any near-term future and the surge of demand will be met with electricity produced where you never have to see it, like "Four Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth. Rr
If you want to see what many large cities will look like once driverless cars become available to the upper 10% consider how traffic is often jammed in Mumbai around popular entertainment and shopping areas as massive numbers of cars of the wealthy continuously circle, driven by low-paid chauffeurs. Why wait for your car to pick you up from a possibly distant lot when it can be there much sooner from circling school of driverless cars? Warrant Canary creator What does this have to do with the need to breath oxygen, and not get
On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear replied: parboiled in our own atmospheric greenhouse? Rr PS. Take your ted bs down the road. The technology that got us into the mess will NOT get us out anymore than the "banksters" who broke the global financial system intentionally, for profit, and their so-called 'regulators' will EVER fix it in any way that affects their profits in the least.
I have to say... i agree :(. The rich will get out of the coming sunny and stormy and wet shit storm that is coming down the pipe line...probably, MAYBE, at least the smart ones.... everyone else, who the fuck knows.
Well all those folks LUVs them a musky SpaceX and all that YUGELY expensive technogy. "Moon Bases" etc. What say we let them go, and while they're up there botnet their comm system terminally so they can't get back, and proceed to attempt to repair the planet we're on. I'm sort of attached to it. Rr
Enjoy it while you got it ;)
On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:18:06 -0700 Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
Well all those folks LUVs them a musky SpaceX and all that YUGELY expensive technogy. "Moon Bases" etc. What say we let them go, and while they're up there botnet their comm system terminally so they can't get back,
The plan is needlessly complex. Way better to have them at hand so that one can point a small rocket at them. and proceed to attempt to repair the planet we're on.
I'm sort of attached to it. Rr
Enjoy it while you got it ;)
On 05/17/2017 06:25 PM, juan wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:18:06 -0700 Razer <g2s@riseup.net> wrote:
Well all those folks LUVs them a musky SpaceX and all that YUGELY expensive technogy. "Moon Bases" etc. What say we let them go, and while they're up there botnet their comm system terminally so they can't get back, The plan is needlessly complex. Way better to have them at hand so that one can point a small rocket at them.
Paul Goodman, the founding father of Gestalt Therapy, speaking by invitation to the National Security Industrial Association —a consortium of arms manufacturers at the October 1967 “Research and Development in the 1970s.” symposium, Washington DC: Hehehe. They didn't know he was an... GASP! ANARCHIST!
You are the military industrial [complex] of the United States, the most dangerous body of men at present in the world, for you not only implement our disastrous policies but are an overwhelming lobby for them, and you expand and rigidify the wrong use of brains, resources, and labor so that change becomes difficult.” / //(He continued as the audience sat in stunned silence.)/
*“The best service you people could perform is rather rapidly to phase yourselves out, passing on your relevant knowledge to people better qualified, or reorganizing yourselves with entirely different sponsors and commitments, so that you learn to think and feel in a different way.** **** **Since you are most of the R&D that there is, we cannot do without you as people, but we cannot do with you as you are.”*
/(laughter and booing along with scattered applause)/
“but we believe, however, that that way of life is unnecessary, ugly, and un-American.”
(Shouts from the audience: “Who are ‘we’?”)
“We are I and those people outside...
...we cannot condone your present operations; they should be wiped off the slate.”
More: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/92438085944 Rr
and proceed to attempt to repair the planet we're on.
I'm sort of attached to it. Rr
Enjoy it while you got it ;)
participants (7)
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Cecilia Tanaka -
grarpamp -
John Newman -
juan -
oshwm -
Razer -
Steven Schear