Linus Torvalds admits he was asked to insert a backdoor into GNU/Linux

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CypherPunk

19 Sep 2013 19 Sep '13

7:04 p.m.

This shouldn't really surprise anyone. Of course they'd at least give it a try. http://www.eweek.com/developer/linus-torvalds-talks-linux-development-at-lin...

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Tom Ritter

19 Sep 19 Sep

7:39 p.m.

...

Torvalds responded "no" while shaking his head "yes," as the audience broke into spontaneous laughter.

Is there any indication he took the question seriously and wasn't just making a joke? This is a lot to conclude from a single sentence. -tom

CypherPunk

7:48 p.m.

On 09/19/2013 02:39 PM, Tom Ritter wrote:

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Torvalds responded "no" while shaking his head "yes," as the audience broke into spontaneous laughter.

Is there any indication he took the question seriously and wasn't just making a joke? This is a lot to conclude from a single sentence.

While he certainly could have been being humorous, I can't see why he would have indicated 'yes' for any reason. I mean, he could have made a funny comment or something sarcastic or any number of other responses. The shaking his head yes while saying now would seem to indicate that he's been told not to say that he's been asked. It would seem logical that he would have been approached though. I mean, they want total tech coverage. Why would Linux escape their attention?

Lance Cottrell

8:02 p.m.

I would think that it is their job to ask. They may or not apply any pressure, but I would think just about everyone of significance at least gets a request. It is like hitting on people in a bar. You may get told no a whole lot, but every once in a while, someone says yes. -Lance -- Lance Cottrell loki@obscura.com On Sep 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, CypherPunk wrote:

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On 09/19/2013 02:39 PM, Tom Ritter wrote:

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...
Torvalds responded "no" while shaking his head "yes," as the audience broke into spontaneous laughter.

Is there any indication he took the question seriously and wasn't just making a joke? This is a lot to conclude from a single sentence.

While he certainly could have been being humorous, I can't see why he would have indicated 'yes' for any reason. I mean, he could have made a funny comment or something sarcastic or any number of other responses. The shaking his head yes while saying now would seem to indicate that he's been told not to say that he's been asked.

It would seem logical that he would have been approached though. I mean, they want total tech coverage. Why would Linux escape their attention?

Andy Isaacson

9:19 p.m.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 02:48:37PM -0500, CypherPunk wrote:

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On 09/19/2013 02:39 PM, Tom Ritter wrote:

...
...
Torvalds responded "no" while shaking his head "yes," as the audience broke into spontaneous laughter.

Is there any indication he took the question seriously and wasn't just making a joke? This is a lot to conclude from a single sentence.

While he certainly could have been being humorous, I can't see why he would have indicated 'yes' for any reason.

Because it's funny, and one of the ways that humans deal with stressful situations is through humor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_of_humour#Humor_as_defense_mechanism Having seen Linus give many talks through the years, I can assure you that he might make such a joke regardless of the true situation.

...

I mean, he could have made a funny comment or something sarcastic or any number of other responses. The shaking his head yes while saying now would seem to indicate that he's been told not to say that he's been asked.

Or it might indicate that he knew it would get a laugh from the audience. It's invalid to read detail into a single such comment.

...

It would seem logical that he would have been approached though. I mean, they want total tech coverage. Why would Linux escape their attention?

It would seem logical, yes. It would also seem logical for Them (tm) to game-theory two more stages, and specifically avoid asking the most prominent maintainers in favor of pressuring or encouraging lower-level contributors to insert (or avoid fixing) bugdoors. I don't think we have enough information to make an informed judgement which scenario has happened. -andy

Patrick

20 Sep 20 Sep

2:34 p.m.

http://mashable.com/2013/09/19/linus-torvalds-backdoor-linux/ No, the Government Never Asked Linus Torvalds for a Backdoor in Linux "Oh, Christ. It was obviously a joke, no government agency has ever asked me for a backdoor in Linux," Torvalds told *Mashable* via email. "Really. Cross my heart and hope to die, really." On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Andy Isaacson wrote:

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On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 02:48:37PM -0500, CypherPunk wrote:

...
On 09/19/2013 02:39 PM, Tom Ritter wrote:

...
...
Torvalds responded "no" while shaking his head "yes," as the audience broke into spontaneous laughter.

Is there any indication he took the question seriously and wasn't just making a joke? This is a lot to conclude from a single sentence.

While he certainly could have been being humorous, I can't see why he would have indicated 'yes' for any reason.

Because it's funny, and one of the ways that humans deal with stressful situations is through humor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_of_humour#Humor_as_defense_mechanism

Having seen Linus give many talks through the years, I can assure you that he might make such a joke regardless of the true situation.

...
I mean, he could have made a funny comment or something sarcastic or any number of other responses. The shaking his head yes while saying now would seem to indicate that he's been told not to say that he's been asked.

Or it might indicate that he knew it would get a laugh from the audience. It's invalid to read detail into a single such comment.

...
It would seem logical that he would have been approached though. I mean, they want total tech coverage. Why would Linux escape their attention?

It would seem logical, yes. It would also seem logical for Them (tm) to game-theory two more stages, and specifically avoid asking the most prominent maintainers in favor of pressuring or encouraging lower-level contributors to insert (or avoid fixing) bugdoors. I don't think we have enough information to make an informed judgement which scenario has happened.

-andy

Stakewinner00

2:59 p.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 20/09/2013 16:34, Patrick wrote:

...

http://mashable.com/2013/09/19/linus-torvalds-backdoor-linux/

No, the Government Never Asked Linus Torvalds for a Backdoor in Linux

"Oh, Christ. It was obviously a joke, no government agency has ever asked me for a backdoor in Linux," Torvalds told *Mashable* via email. "Really. Cross my heart and hope to die, really."

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Andy Isaacson wrote:

...
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 02:48:37PM -0500, CypherPunk wrote:

...
On 09/19/2013 02:39 PM, Tom Ritter wrote:

...
...
Torvalds responded "no" while shaking his head "yes," as the audience broke into spontaneous laughter.

Is there any indication he took the question seriously and wasn't just making a joke? This is a lot to conclude from a single sentence.

While he certainly could have been being humorous, I can't see why he would have indicated 'yes' for any reason.

Because it's funny, and one of the ways that humans deal with stressful situations is through humor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_of_humour#Humor_as_defense_mechanism

Having seen Linus give many talks through the years, I can assure you that he might make such a joke regardless of the true situation.

...
I mean, he could have made a funny comment or something sarcastic or any number of other responses. The shaking his head yes while saying now would seem to indicate that he's been told not to say that he's been asked.

Or it might indicate that he knew it would get a laugh from the audience. It's invalid to read detail into a single such comment.

...
It would seem logical that he would have been approached though. I mean, they want total tech coverage. Why would Linux escape their attention?

It would seem logical, yes. It would also seem logical for Them (tm) to game-theory two more stages, and specifically avoid asking the most prominent maintainers in favor of pressuring or encouraging lower-level contributors to insert (or avoid fixing) bugdoors. I don't think we have enough information to make an informed judgement which scenario has happened.

-andy

I think that the Goverment don't need to ask for a Backdoor in Linux. The goverment can ask Intel for a Backdoor in the hardware. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEVAwUBUjxiy2nZMKDLC/xbAQIAxgf/VzRJj0Tecp70YjogvFt5W53bbWKWHyh9 M82C7fFjdXElXWRvQNW1zlGbnpYRVb6htLIVh7aOTnx6XQWCZGbBrqd34/caGjjJ 5m6Mll+S9VhXKZlIX0CZa7m77osfTKoIkh80o7AoG4FSlfIzx6N0YX9/54+xwV87 Jd737slVgvaLi+FTik3gJx93vKlbohi2qMp8W5Edw+Vbff+aMQ48rKWSqSUJixV7 UVwyKK0iiVu6gUXc4QvFVfRzazI8HnQvs95xIDA41VlWBmjTmIf738+TA8s7wF2L 2AjbLM2RSZcyBBlmJTM5uuag/8wVp15oU9RoekcskJAWcI2a75D8jQ== =vbkT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

David

3:09 p.m.

On 9/20/13 10:59 AM, Stakewinner00 wrote:

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I think that the Goverment don't need to ask for a Backdoor in Linux. The goverment can ask Intel for a Backdoor in the hardware.

The existence of Linux on ARM adds to the complexity of such approaches.

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participants (7)

Andy Isaacson
CypherPunk
David
Lance Cottrell
Patrick
Stakewinner00
Tom Ritter