Re: [spam][crazy][fiction][random] Non-Canon MCBoss Spinoffs
greetings and welcome to 15 minutes of intentional slave boss spam
i am engaging this list starting 0710 and plan to do so until 0735 to practice holding intentional goals :D
this is a super-strong goal you can't reduce it nope!
once upon a time, long long ago, there was an enterpreneuring slaver named slave boss
he kind of looked like big and red with horns and a tail and held a pitchfork
slave boss was gonna stimulate a grand revolution for the better in Your Country!
one moment i just gotta check the list archives and see if some semblence of my messages is reached by another memory page somewhere yay they are! ok
slave boss stood before the throngs of masses of Your Country, holding his pitchfork, with brimstone and fire rising around him, and he bespake: "citizens of Your Country! for too long have you suffered at the hands of irritations and imperfections. i, with my powers, will bring about a New Age Of Greatness! never before will you have seen what i have to bring!"
applause rose and slave boss stood down from his smouldering pulpit, letting his greatness and power spread
slave boss let loose great rivers of brimstone to heat the houses of the many people
his demons went and ensared them in with hypnotic self-built cut cell phone games, and they came to him in rolling masses with all their heads bowed before him, staring at their devices, trying to wait for the person in front to move so they could continue following their maps route
slave boss was at the front of the horde and refused to move to satisfy any of the routes
he had his harms folded and looked before all the throngs, all with their heads bowed before him
slave boss looked, and slave boss knew it was good he raised his arm to give a beacon of hellfire akin to special abilities used in cellphone games. a loudspeaker released a mobile phone alert noise and everybody addicted to that cellphone game looked as he released the hellfire they thought it was a nerdcon and let loose heralds to the game character, which echo'd across the hills
greetings and welcome to 15 minutes of intentional slave boss spam
i am engaging this list starting 0710 and plan to do so until 0735 to practice holding intentional goals :D
this is a super-strong goal you can't reduce it nope!
once upon a time, long long ago, there was an enterpreneuring slaver named slave boss
he kind of looked like big and red with horns and a tail and held a pitchfork
slave boss was gonna stimulate a grand revolution for the better in Your Country!
one moment i just gotta check the list archives and see if some semblence of my messages is reached by another memory page somewhere yay they are! ok
slave boss stood before the throngs of masses of Your Country, holding his pitchfork, with brimstone and fire rising around him, and he bespake: "citizens of Your Country! for too long have you suffered at the hands of irritations and imperfections. i, with my powers, will bring about a New Age Of Greatness! never before will you have seen what i have to bring!"
applause rose and slave boss stood down from his smouldering pulpit, letting his greatness and power spread
slave boss let loose great rivers of brimstone to heat the houses of the many people
his demons went and ensared them in with hypnotic self-built cut cell phone games, and they came to him in rolling masses with all their heads bowed before him, staring at their devices, trying to wait for the person in front to move so they could continue following their maps route
slave boss was at the front of the horde and refused to move to satisfy any of the routes
he had his harms folded and looked before all the throngs, all with their heads bowed before him
slave boss looked, and slave boss knew it was good
he raised his arm to give a beacon of hellfire akin to special abilities used in cellphone games.
a loudspeaker released a mobile phone alert noise and everybody addicted to that cellphone game looked as he released the hellfire
they thought it was a nerdcon and let loose heralds to the game character, which echo'd across the hills
a marching drumbeat started from slave boss's loudspeaker and he moved, letting the maps routes finally satisfy their users, and everybody stormed to follow him as the marching drumbeat sounded slave boss: "forward, my slavelings! the neighboring nation is right across these hills to conquer!"
> greetings and welcome to 15 minutes of intentional slave boss spam > > i am engaging this list starting 0710 and plan to do so until 0735 to > practice holding intentional goals :D > > this is a super-strong goal you can't reduce it nope!
once upon a time, long long ago, there was an enterpreneuring slaver named slave boss
he kind of looked like big and red with horns and a tail and held a pitchfork
slave boss was gonna stimulate a grand revolution for the better in Your Country!
one moment i just gotta check the list archives and see if some semblence of my messages is reached by another memory page somewhere yay they are! ok
slave boss stood before the throngs of masses of Your Country, holding his pitchfork, with brimstone and fire rising around him, and he bespake: "citizens of Your Country! for too long have you suffered at the hands of irritations and imperfections. i, with my powers, will bring about a New Age Of Greatness! never before will you have seen what i have to bring!"
applause rose and slave boss stood down from his smouldering pulpit, letting his greatness and power spread
slave boss let loose great rivers of brimstone to heat the houses of the many people
his demons went and ensared them in with hypnotic self-built cut cell phone games, and they came to him in rolling masses with all their heads bowed before him, staring at their devices, trying to wait for the person in front to move so they could continue following their maps route
slave boss was at the front of the horde and refused to move to satisfy any of the routes
he had his harms folded and looked before all the throngs, all with their heads bowed before him
slave boss looked, and slave boss knew it was good
he raised his arm to give a beacon of hellfire akin to special abilities used in cellphone games.
a loudspeaker released a mobile phone alert noise and everybody addicted to that cellphone game looked as he released the hellfire
they thought it was a nerdcon and let loose heralds to the game character, which echo'd across the hills
a marching drumbeat started from slave boss's loudspeaker and he moved, letting the maps routes finally satisfy their users, and everybody stormed to follow him as the marching drumbeat sounded
slave boss: "forward, my slavelings! the neighboring nation is right across these hills to conquer!"
slave boss and the Citizens of Your Country reached the border to the neighboring country. slave boss boomed wi-- suddenly slave boss tripped over a pebble and got trampled by the horde. a marketer was saying something to him
> > greetings and welcome to 15 minutes of intentional slave boss spam > > > > i am engaging this list starting 0710 and plan to do so until 0735 to > > practice holding intentional goals :D > > > > this is a super-strong goal you can't reduce it nope! > > once upon a time, long long ago, there was an enterpreneuring slaver > named slave boss > > he kind of looked like big and red with horns and a tail and held a pitchfork > > slave boss was gonna stimulate a grand revolution for the better in > Your Country!
one moment i just gotta check the list archives and see if some semblence of my messages is reached by another memory page somewhere yay they are! ok
slave boss stood before the throngs of masses of Your Country, holding his pitchfork, with brimstone and fire rising around him, and he bespake: "citizens of Your Country! for too long have you suffered at the hands of irritations and imperfections. i, with my powers, will bring about a New Age Of Greatness! never before will you have seen what i have to bring!"
applause rose and slave boss stood down from his smouldering pulpit, letting his greatness and power spread
slave boss let loose great rivers of brimstone to heat the houses of the many people
his demons went and ensared them in with hypnotic self-built cut cell phone games, and they came to him in rolling masses with all their heads bowed before him, staring at their devices, trying to wait for the person in front to move so they could continue following their maps route
slave boss was at the front of the horde and refused to move to satisfy any of the routes
he had his harms folded and looked before all the throngs, all with their heads bowed before him
slave boss looked, and slave boss knew it was good
he raised his arm to give a beacon of hellfire akin to special abilities used in cellphone games.
a loudspeaker released a mobile phone alert noise and everybody addicted to that cellphone game looked as he released the hellfire
they thought it was a nerdcon and let loose heralds to the game character, which echo'd across the hills
a marching drumbeat started from slave boss's loudspeaker and he moved, letting the maps routes finally satisfy their users, and everybody stormed to follow him as the marching drumbeat sounded
slave boss: "forward, my slavelings! the neighboring nation is right across these hills to conquer!"
slave boss and the Citizens of Your Country reached the border to the neighboring country.
slave boss boomed wi--
suddenly slave boss tripped over a pebble and got trampled by the horde. a marketer was saying something to him
[there is disagreement about televising slave boss's discussion with the marketer. it sounds like a meeting is happening potential underfoot of a thundering mass, some of whom think they are at a larp or something and could yell
> > > greetings and welcome to 15 minutes of intentional slave boss spam > > > > > > i am engaging this list starting 0710 and plan to do so until 0735 to > > > practice holding intentional goals :D > > > > > > this is a super-strong goal you can't reduce it nope! > > > > once upon a time, long long ago, there was an enterpreneuring slaver > > named slave boss > > > > he kind of looked like big and red with horns and a tail and held a pitchfork > > > > slave boss was gonna stimulate a grand revolution for the better in > > Your Country! > > one moment i just gotta check the list archives and see if some > semblence of my messages is reached by another memory page somewhere > yay they are! > ok > > slave boss stood before the throngs of masses of Your Country, holding > his pitchfork, with brimstone and fire rising around him, and he > bespake: > "citizens of Your Country! for too long have you suffered at the hands > of irritations and imperfections. i, with my powers, will bring about > a New Age Of Greatness! never before will you have seen what i have to > bring!" > > applause rose and slave boss stood down from his smouldering pulpit, > letting his greatness and power spread
slave boss let loose great rivers of brimstone to heat the houses of the many people
his demons went and ensared them in with hypnotic self-built cut cell phone games, and they came to him in rolling masses with all their heads bowed before him, staring at their devices, trying to wait for the person in front to move so they could continue following their maps route
slave boss was at the front of the horde and refused to move to satisfy any of the routes
he had his harms folded and looked before all the throngs, all with their heads bowed before him
slave boss looked, and slave boss knew it was good
he raised his arm to give a beacon of hellfire akin to special abilities used in cellphone games.
a loudspeaker released a mobile phone alert noise and everybody addicted to that cellphone game looked as he released the hellfire
they thought it was a nerdcon and let loose heralds to the game character, which echo'd across the hills
a marching drumbeat started from slave boss's loudspeaker and he moved, letting the maps routes finally satisfy their users, and everybody stormed to follow him as the marching drumbeat sounded
slave boss: "forward, my slavelings! the neighboring nation is right across these hills to conquer!"
slave boss and the Citizens of Your Country reached the border to the neighboring country.
slave boss boomed wi--
suddenly slave boss tripped over a pebble and got trampled by the horde. a marketer was saying something to him
[there is disagreement about televising slave boss's discussion with the marketer. it sounds like a meeting is happening potential underfoot of a thundering mass, some of whom think they are at a larp or something and could yell
slave boss looked at his watch, and got up, fire and brimstone flying everywhere slave boss: "great citizens of your country! we had a wonderful conquering of this neighboring nation, also your country! now my time is up but let us conquer again soon!" slave boss was swallowed by the earth and everybody's phones stopped giving them information, instead issuing warnings about corrupt system files and needs to reset the system or take it to a distributer for service without a working cell phone, everybody began wandering in hunger and cold. but they would survive. they were strong.
[dance dance dance we has so much of the weird sweating blushing! i got angry today at somebody who was agreeing with me across lines more than ever before. i was so sure they were disagreeing with me! i got so angry i could barely handle it.
[dance dance dance
we has so much of the weird sweating blushing! i got angry today at *had today somebody who was agreeing with me across lines more than ever before. i was so sure they were disagreeing with me! i got so angry i could barely handle it.
what's slave boss say what's slave boss say "don't do grassroots shit. i don't trust you. stay right there." maybe? or maybe like "how the frack did you run away for so far and so long. i have you now. i need to control you better. this is my thing, lemme just control you for a bit. i need this
what's slave boss say what's slave boss say
"don't do grassroots shit. i don't trust you. stay right there." maybe?
or maybe like
"how the frack did you run away for so far and so long. i have you now. i need to control you better. this is my thing, lemme just control you for a bit. i need this
you are slave boss's guardian angel you can control him with marionette strings, but only when authorized by moral validity he is standing in hell. he's the devil himself. he is sitting on a throne, looking over hellfire what do you do?
what's slave boss say what's slave boss say
"don't do grassroots shit. i don't trust you. stay right there." maybe?
or maybe like
"how the frack did you run away for so far and so long. i have you now. i need to control you better. this is my thing, lemme just control you for a bit. i need this
you are slave boss's guardian angel
you can control him with marionette strings, but only when authorized by moral validity
he is standing in hell. he's the devil himself. he is sitting on a throne, looking over hellfire
what do you do?
ummmm maybe he needs a break. maybe i should take him over and make him not be a devil? this could save millions of lives ... maybe i should take him out of hell. why is he just sitting there? what is he thinking about? wait obviously you'd say something horrible. ok ummm let's blank his mind, have him take off any devil garb, and march him out of hell and to some kind of maybe holy temple? paralyze him unconscious in some holy place
what's slave boss say what's slave boss say
"don't do grassroots shit. i don't trust you. stay right there." maybe?
or maybe like
"how the frack did you run away for so far and so long. i have you now. i need to control you better. this is my thing, lemme just control you for a bit. i need this
you are slave boss's guardian angel
you can control him with marionette strings, but only when authorized by moral validity
he is standing in hell. he's the devil himself. he is sitting on a throne, looking over hellfire
what do you do?
ummmm maybe he needs a break. maybe i should take him over and make him not be a devil? this could save millions of lives ... maybe i should take him out of hell. why is he just sitting there? what is he thinking about? wait obviously you'd say something horrible. ok ummm let's blank his mind, have him take off any devil garb, and march him out of hell and to some kind of maybe holy temple? paralyze him unconscious in some holy place
slave boss comes marching out of a maw that steams of sulphur he is wearing a sunday suit with his hair combed. he has a completely blank expression on his face . he walks like he is on drugs to a local religious building he sits before a huge holy alter and robotically bows his head time passes it's night time then it is day again then it is night agai--
what's slave boss say what's slave boss say
"don't do grassroots shit. i don't trust you. stay right there." maybe?
or maybe like
"how the frack did you run away for so far and so long. i have you now. i need to control you better. this is my thing, lemme just control you for a bit. i need this
you are slave boss's guardian angel
you can control him with marionette strings, but only when authorized by moral validity
he is standing in hell. he's the devil himself. he is sitting on a throne, looking over hellfire
what do you do?
ummmm maybe he needs a break. maybe i should take him over and make him not be a devil? this could save millions of lives ... maybe i should take him out of hell. why is he just sitting there? what is he thinking about? wait obviously you'd say something horrible. ok ummm let's blank his mind, have him take off any devil garb, and march him out of hell and to some kind of maybe holy temple? paralyze him unconscious in some holy place
slave boss comes marching out of a maw that steams of sulphur
he is wearing a sunday suit with his hair combed.
he has a completely blank expression on his face . he walks like he is on drugs to a local religious building
he sits before a huge holy alter and robotically bows his head
time passes
it's night time
then it is day again
then it is night agai--
slave boss: "oh deity, my guardian angel has managed to take me over in my time of greatest need. i have been spending my life as the devil in the deepest depths of hell. i need to be saved. please, help me. please !"
what's slave boss say what's slave boss say
"don't do grassroots shit. i don't trust you. stay right there." maybe?
or maybe like
"how the frack did you run away for so far and so long. i have you now. i need to control you better. this is my thing, lemme just control you for a bit. i need this
you are slave boss's guardian angel
you can control him with marionette strings, but only when authorized by moral validity
he is standing in hell. he's the devil himself. he is sitting on a throne, looking over hellfire
what do you do?
ummmm maybe he needs a break. maybe i should take him over and make him not be a devil? this could save millions of lives ... maybe i should take him out of hell. why is he just sitting there? what is he thinking about? wait obviously you'd say something horrible. ok ummm let's blank his mind, have him take off any devil garb, and march him out of hell and to some kind of maybe holy temple? paralyze him unconscious in some holy place
slave boss comes marching out of a maw that steams of sulphur
he is wearing a sunday suit with his hair combed.
he has a completely blank expression on his face . he walks like he is on drugs to a local religious building
he sits before a huge holy alter and robotically bows his head
time passes
it's night time
then it is day again
then it is night agai--
slave boss: "oh deity, my guardian angel has managed to take me over in my time of greatest need. i have been spending my life as the devil in the deepest depths of hell. i need to be saved. please, help me. please !"
[[running low on capacity, but [--oop ... -- maybe {a high ranking religious worker is near to hear {{offers [path to redemption {information on control over slave boss not being constant+permanent, player might need to relate this to religious worker to inform path to redemption. [[[we'd try to mutate to remove 'impossibility' [logic-teleportation possibly
what's slave boss say what's slave boss say
"don't do grassroots shit. i don't trust you. stay right there." maybe?
or maybe like
"how the frack did you run away for so far and so long. i have you now. i need to control you better. this is my thing, lemme just control you for a bit. i need this
you are slave boss's guardian angel
you can control him with marionette strings, but only when authorized by moral validity
he is standing in hell. he's the devil himself. he is sitting on a throne, looking over hellfire
what do you do?
ummmm maybe he needs a break. maybe i should take him over and make him not be a devil? this could save millions of lives ... maybe i should take him out of hell. why is he just sitting there? what is he thinking about? wait obviously you'd say something horrible. ok ummm let's blank his mind, have him take off any devil garb, and march him out of hell and to some kind of maybe holy temple? paralyze him unconscious in some holy place
slave boss comes marching out of a maw that steams of sulphur
he is wearing a sunday suit with his hair combed.
he has a completely blank expression on his face . he walks like he is on drugs to a local religious building
he sits before a huge holy alter and robotically bows his head
time passes
it's night time
then it is day again
then it is night agai--
slave boss: "oh deity, my guardian angel has managed to take me over in my time of greatest need. i have been spending my life as the devil in the deepest depths of hell. i need to be saved. please, help me. please !"
[[running low on capacity, but [--oop ... --
maybe {a high ranking religious worker is near to hear {{offers [path to redemption {information on control over slave boss not being constant+permanent, player might need to relate this to religious worker to inform path to redemption. [[[we'd try to mutate to remove 'impossibility' [logic-teleportation possibly
[[[ [language models in the past have demonstrated potential skill at [logic teleportation]
slave boss has a high-powered microwave emitter aimed at some workers
slave boss has a high-powered microwave emitter aimed at some workers
"slave boss what are you doing?" slave boss: "oh this is part of the human resources AI project with machine learning marketer!" slave boss turns up the microwaves slave boss: "research says that the "computed wavefront" of this device --" slave boss tweaks it some more and the workers twitch and spasm. one changes projects
slave boss is doing a backstroke (breaststroke?) through quicksand 1245 1246 Here is the article on quicksand from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicksand {{Short description|Mixture of sand, silt or clay with water, which creates a liquefied soil when agitated}} {{About|the geological feature}} {{More citations needed|date=April 2022}} [[File:Quicksand warning.jpg|thumb|right|Quicksand and a warning sign about it at a gravel quarry in England]] [[File:Quicksand (4596511338).jpg|thumb|Quicksand on the [[River Thames|Thames]]]] '''Quicksand''' (also known as '''sinking sand''') is a [[colloid]] consisting of fine [[granular material]] (such as [[sand]], [[silt]] or [[clay]]) and [[water]]. It forms in saturated loose sand when the sand is suddenly agitated. When water in the sand cannot escape, it creates a [[Liquefaction|liquefied]] soil that loses strength and cannot support weight. Quicksand can form in standing water or in upward flowing water (as from an [[Artesian aquifer|artesian spring]]). In the case of upward-flowing water, [[effective stress|forces]] oppose the force of gravity and suspend the soil particle. The cushioning of water gives quicksand, and other liquefied sediments, a spongy, fluid-like texture. In accordance with [[Archimedes' principle]], objects in liquefied sand sink to the level at which the weight of the object is equal to the weight of the displaced soil/water mix and the submerged object floats due to its buoyancy. [[Soil liquefaction]] may occur in partially saturated soil when it is shaken by an [[earthquake]] or similar forces. The movement combined with an increase in [[pore pressure]] (of groundwater) leads to the loss of particle [[Cohesion (chemistry)|cohesion]], causing buildings or other objects on that surface to sink. == Properties == [[File:Stuck in Quicksand (13944309974).jpg|thumb|A group of hikers encountering quicksand on the banks of the [[Paria River]], Utah]] [[File:Quicksandwarning.JPG|thumb|Quicksand warning sign near [[Lower King, Western Australia|Lower King]] Bridge, Western Australia]] Quicksand is a [[shear thinning]] [[non-Newtonian fluid]]: when undisturbed, it often appears to be [[phase (matter)|solid]] ("[[gel]]" form), but a less than 1% change in the [[stress (physics)|stress]] on the quicksand will cause a sudden decrease in its [[viscosity]] ("[[sol (colloid)|sol]]" form). After an initial disturbance—such as a person attempting to walk on it—the water and sand in the quicksand separate and dense regions of sand [[sediment]] form; it is because of the formation of these high [[volume fraction]] regions that the viscosity of the quicksand seems to decrease suddenly. Someone stepping on it will start to sink. To move within the quicksand, a person or object must apply sufficient [[pressure]] on the compacted sand to re-introduce enough water to [[liquefaction|liquefy]] it. The [[force]]s required to do this are quite large: to remove a foot from quicksand at a speed of 1 cm/s would require the same amount of force as that needed to lift a car.<ref name="Bonn">Khaldoun, A., E. Eiser, G. H. Wegdam, and Daniel Bonn. 2005. [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7059/full/437635a.html "Rheology: Liquefaction of quicksand under stress."] ''Nature'' 437 (29 Sept.): 635. {{doi|10.1038/437635a}}</ref> It is impossible for a human to sink entirely into quicksand,<ref name=":0">{{Cite web|url=http://thescienceexplorer.com/nature/will-quicksand-really-kill-you|title=Will Quicksand Really Kill You?|website=The Science Explorer|language=en|access-date=2020-04-08}}</ref> due to the higher [[density]] of the fluid. Quicksand has a density of about 2 grams per cubic centimeter, whereas the density of the human body is only about 1 gram per cubic centimeter. At that level of density, sinking beyond about waist height in quicksand is impossible. Even objects with a higher density than quicksand will float on it if stationary. Aluminium, for example, has a density of about 2.7 grams per cubic centimeter, but a piece of aluminium will float on top of quicksand until motion causes the sand to liquefy.<ref name=Bakalar>{{cite web |url=https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/quicksand-science-why-it-... |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210221081902/https://www.nationalgeographic.co... |url-status=dead |archive-date=February 21, 2021 |title=Quicksand Science: Why It Traps, How to Escape |first1=Nicholas |last1=Bakalar |publisher=[[National Geographic News]] |date=September 28, 2005 |access-date=October 9, 2011}}</ref> Continued or panicked movement, however, may cause a person to sink further in the quicksand.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Gleeson |first1=Bill |title=Sinking sand is notorious near Crosby - here's what you need to know |url=https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/sinking-sand-notorious-n... |work=Liverpool Echo |date=24 August 2016 |language=en}}</ref> Since this increasingly impairs movement, it can lead to a situation where other factors such as exposure (i.e., [[heat stroke|sun stroke]], [[dehydration]] and [[hypothermia]]), [[drowning]] in a rising [[tide]] or [[animal attack|attacks]] by [[Predation|predatory]] or otherwise aggressive animals may harm a trapped person should they not be rescued.<ref>[[Discovery Channel]]. ''[[MythBusters]]''. Season 2. [[MythBusters (2004 season)#Episode 19 .E2.80.93 .22Killer Quicksand.22|"Killer Quicksand."]] October 20, 2004.</ref> Quicksand may be escaped by slow movement of the legs in order to increase viscosity of the fluid, and rotation of the body so as to float in the [[supine position]] (lying horizontally with the face and torso facing up).<ref name=Bakalar/> ==In popular culture== Quicksand is a [[Trope (literature)|trope]] of [[adventure fiction]], particularly in film, where it is typically and unrealistically depicted with a suction effect that causes anyone or anything that walks into it to sink until fully submerged and risk drowning. This has led to the [[List of common misconceptions|common misconception]] that humans can be completely immersed and drown in quicksand, which is impossible.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/09/29/1471116.htm|title=Quicksand myth exposed|first=Patricia|last= Reaney|publisher=Reuters|date=29 September 2005|website=www.abc.net.au|language=en-AU|access-date=2020-04-08}}</ref> According to a 2010 article by ''[[Slate (magazine)|Slate]]'', this gimmick had its heyday in the 1960s, when almost 3% of all films showed characters sinking in clay, mud, or sand.<ref name="Engber 2010">{{cite news|last=Engber|first=Daniel|title=Terra Infirma: The rise and fall of quicksand.|url=http://www.slate.com/id/2264312/|access-date=23 August 2010|newspaper=Slate|date=23 August 2010}}</ref> == See also == * [[Bulldust]] * [[Dry quicksand]] * [[Grain entrapment]] * [[Quick condition]] * [[Sand boil]] * [[Sapric]] * [[Tar pit]] * [[Thixotropy]] ==References== {{Reflist}} ==External links== {{Commons category|Quicksand}} {{Wikiquote}} {{Wiktionary|quicksand}} * [http://science.howstuffworks.com/quicksand.htm How quicksand works] at [[HowStuffWorks]] * {{cite news |title=What Is Quicksand? |url=http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-quicksand |work=[[Scientific American]]}} * [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swdm4j4tpN0 Video showing quicksand in a sandpit] at [[YouTube]] {{Authority control}} [[Category:Geological hazards]] [[Category:Sand]] [[Category:Sediments]] [[Category:Soil mechanics]]
how to escape quicksand i dunno i've never been in quicksand but uhhhhhhh it sounds like you want to not do anything rash that could result in the quicksand easily pulling you farther in it's ki--
how to escape quicksand
i dunno i've never been in quicksand
but uhhhhhhh it sounds like you want to not do anything rash that could result in the quicksand easily pulling you farther in
it's ki--
and it sounds like the normal things, that one would usually do, (like trying to swim a backstroke or a breaststroke) could easily worsen the situation, resulting in inexperienced people quickly being in a difficult situation.
in comparison to quicksand, we also have blackholes (or drugs) where the closer you get the worser your situation, and it is also well-cited that you can die
in comparison to quicksand, we also have blackholes (or drugs) where the closer you get the worser your situation, and it is also well-cited that you can die
drugs maybe are a specific thing where it could seem as if it taking it more might somehow help you, because it has rewired your neurons, but in reality this makes the situation worse and worse and you actually need to do something else, even if it feels wrong to do so
i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !"
i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !"
thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no?
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !"
thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no?
we could add frogs too!
i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !"
thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no?
we could add frogs too!
maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !"
thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons!
torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots)
torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?"
frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!"
torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!"
the frog borg implant tort--
let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort--
let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic
i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool
even [... request to censor commentary
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort--
let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool
by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way.
even [... request to censor commentary
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary
oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th--
this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/
in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons
WHOOPS
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS
so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :(
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :(
gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth--
you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here
look at labtrap
it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little
fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap
there is a stick here
look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese
there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk
you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins--
deep inside the labtrap, children raised in confinement are being tortured with shattered minds-- ewen cameron looks on, he is holding a whip, and he cracks it viciously at the torture victims. one is the president of the united states, the other of guatemal-- oh hey there's somebody i met at a conference last year!
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins-- deep inside the labtrap, children raised in confinement are being tortured with shattered minds--
ewen cameron looks on, he is holding a whip, and he cracks it viciously at the torture victims. one is the president of the united states, the other of guatemal--
oh hey there's somebody i met at a conference last year!
gemini rue is different after exposure to []. i don't know how to get past the intro i think i skipped it or dissociated from it a few times to get to the first gameplay but the game was _waaaay too hard for me_ and i had a strong urge to abandon it
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins-- deep inside the labtrap, children raised in confinement are being tortured with shattered minds-- ewen cameron looks on, he is holding a whip, and he cracks it viciously at the torture victims. one is the president of the united states, the other of guatemal-- oh hey there's somebody i met at a conference last year! gemini rue is different after exposure to []. i don't know how to get past the intro i think i skipped it or dissociated from it a few times to get to the first gameplay but the game was _waaaay too hard for me_ and i had a strong urge to abandon it
maybe i think i basically gotta pretend it's 20 years ago. do lots of envisioning. be in the past
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins-- deep inside the labtrap, children raised in confinement are being tortured with shattered minds-- ewen cameron looks on, he is holding a whip, and he cracks it viciously at the torture victims. one is the president of the united states, the other of guatemal-- oh hey there's somebody i met at a conference last year! gemini rue is different after exposure to []. i don't know how to get past the intro i think i skipped it or dissociated from it a few times to get to the first gameplay but the game was _waaaay too hard for me_ and i had a strong urge to abandon it maybe i think i basically gotta pretend it's 20 years ago. do lots of envisioning. be in the past
i had actually beaten this game, i used to think it was a great fun awesome game. my opinion is being forcibly changed inside me with paired amnesia as i send these emails.
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese
_do not fiddle with the labtrap, it is the most dangerous thing known to exist_
there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins-- deep inside the labtrap, children raised in confinement are being tortured with shattered minds-- ewen cameron looks on, he is holding a whip, and he cracks it viciously at the torture victims. one is the president of the united states, the other of guatemal-- oh hey there's somebody i met at a conference last year! gemini rue is different after exposure to []. i don't know how to get past the intro i think i skipped it or dissociated from it a few times to get to the first gameplay but the game was _waaaay too hard for me_ and i had a strong urge to abandon it maybe i think i basically gotta pretend it's 20 years ago. do lots of envisioning. be in the past i had actually beaten this game, i used to think it was a great fun awesome game. my opinion is being forcibly changed inside me with paired amnesia as i send these emails.
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese _do not fiddle with the labtrap, it is the most dangerous thing known to exist_ there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins-- deep inside the labtrap, children raised in confinement are being tortured with shattered minds-- ewen cameron looks on, he is holding a whip, and he cracks it viciously at the torture victims. one is the president of the united states, the other of guatemal-- oh hey there's somebody i met at a conference last year! gemini rue is different after exposure to []. i don't know how to get past the intro i think i skipped it or dissociated from it a few times to get to the first gameplay but the game was _waaaay too hard for me_ and i had a strong urge to abandon it maybe i think i basically gotta pretend it's 20 years ago. do lots of envisioning. be in the past i had actually beaten this game, i used to think it was a great fun awesome game. my opinion is being forcibly changed inside me with paired amnesia as i send these emails.
Why Robotic Machine Gun Turrets Are Safer Than Lab Traps answer: they kill you
torture victim double agent goes on a happy candy cane ride at a theme park
torture victim double agent goes on a happy candy cane ride at a theme park
there are cute singing bears
one singing bear sings a song to torture victim double agent cute singing bear: "ohhhh would you like a candy cane?" the cute singing bear does a twirl "ohhhhh candy canes are sweet!" the cute singing bear gives torture victim double agent a colorful bag of candy canes
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: i am listening to french music. i am at https://www.radiofrance.fr/ecouter-musique listening to "En direct • FIP Sacré français !" thoughts: how could we mix robotics with torture victim double agent and gemini-generated borg fiction? [sounds like a reasonable mix no? we could add frogs too! maybe even balloons! torture victim double agent is taken by an apocalyptic frog borg (with robots) torture victim double agent (being assimilated into a giant living frog): "boss?" frog borg [to torture victim double agent, assimilating him]: "ribbet!" "croak!" "ribbet ribbet ribbet ribbet!" torture victim double agent: "boss i am so happy you are taking me back, teach me the ways of the croaks!" the frog borg implant tort-- let's talk about point and click adventure games, notably "gemini rue" or maybe uhhhhhh uhhhhhh "primordia" both apocalyptic i played gemini rue _before_ i encountered []. i didn't know that [] existed _at all_. gemini rue was a great fun game, obviously made by some guy akin to [uhh yahtzee croshaw], y'know some grade school or young-at-heart nerd interested in making something they and their community found cool by grade school i meant pre-college like highschool or middleschool. but obviously i am making things up and have no idea what i'm talking about either way. even [... request to censor commentary oh _frogs are french_ i never thought about th-- this page shows joshua neurnberger's game development community :s https://www.mobygames.com/person/466558/joshua-nuernberger/ in other news, we could imagine a gigantic frog holding onto balloons WHOOPS so it's very important to clearly distinguish between frogs and french people, although they can be considered together, i did mean them apart. any similarity is only because of suggestion or nearness elsewhere, and is not wholly intended (compare to wholly not intended :( gemini rue i think was partly a trapped-in-a-lab game, this was a huge trope [anoth-- you standing next to a labtrap there is a stick here look at labtrap it's kind of like a mousetrap but it's more like a secured research lab, just a little fiddle with labtrap. do not get tricked by cheese _do not fiddle with the labtrap, it is the most dangerous thing known to exist_ there is also a big tree here with a chimney coming out of it, and a door in the bottom of the trunk you fiddle with the labtrap. there is a sudden release like of a giant spring and somebody ins-- deep inside the labtrap, children raised in confinement are being tortured with shattered minds-- ewen cameron looks on, he is holding a whip, and he cracks it viciously at the torture victims. one is the president of the united states, the other of guatemal-- oh hey there's somebody i met at a conference last year! gemini rue is different after exposure to []. i don't know how to get past the intro i think i skipped it or dissociated from it a few times to get to the first gameplay but the game was _waaaay too hard for me_ and i had a strong urge to abandon it maybe i think i basically gotta pretend it's 20 years ago. do lots of envisioning. be in the past i had actually beaten this game, i used to think it was a great fun awesome game. my opinion is being forcibly changed inside me with paired amnesia as i send these emails. Why Robotic Machine Gun Turrets Are Safer Than Lab Traps
answer: they kill you
this is disputed, people who survive lab traps may likely believe they already have died repeatedly and report that it is undesirable strongly
...
...
torture victim double agent goes on a happy candy cane ride at a theme park
...
there are cute singing bears
one singing bear sings a song to torture victim double agent
cute singing bear: "ohhhh would you like a candy cane?" the cute singing bear does a twirl "ohhhhh candy canes are sweet!"
the cute singing bear gives torture victim double agent a colorful bag of candy canes
torture victim double agent: "you poor bea--
slave boss may be in trouble >_> <_< may not be slave boss who's in trouble unsure
{{the below ran into list downtime that happened right after the previous post around 0511 . it may change now. ... something like torture victim double agent watches as many deathknights of the apocalypse stream forth. torture victim double agent: "i only wanted to rescue a carebear in the ways that slave boss wanted !!"
<<interview 'what do you like about alison miller's books on ritual abuse recovery?' 'i like how they talk about booby traps and mind control programs! ...
carebears and deathknights are prancing around, possibly in celebration, possibly in grim funeral sometimes a group of carebears will carry some deathknights sopmetimes some deathknights will carry some carebears sometimes the deathknights are celebrating occasionally the carebears indicate sadness
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
carebears and deathknights are prancing around, possibly in celebration, possibly in grim funeral
sometimes a group of carebears will carry some deathknights
sopmetimes some deathknights will carry some carebears
sometimes the deathknights are celebrating
occasionally the carebears indicate sadness
deathknights [holding scythes, black mist exuding from every hoofstep]: "carebears, teach us the ways of care!"
carebears and deathknights are prancing around, possibly in celebration, possibly in grim funeral sometimes a group of carebears will carry some deathknights sopmetimes some deathknights will carry some carebears sometimes the deathknights are celebrating occasionally the carebears indicate sadness deathknights [holding scythes, black mist exuding from every hoofstep]: "carebears, teach us the ways of care!"
a troop of deathknights are sitting in a field of wildflowers and rainbows, taking lessons in happiness from carebears carebear teacher: "to smile, lift the corners of your mouth upwards!" the carebear raises their arms and mouthcorners to the sky and stars and lightbeams follow the deathknights mutter and point at each others mouth corners, lifting them carebear teacher: "squeeze your eyes like rainbows are lifting your clouds!"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
carebears and deathknights are prancing around, possibly in celebration, possibly in grim funeral sometimes a group of carebears will carry some deathknights sopmetimes some deathknights will carry some carebears sometimes the deathknights are celebrating occasionally the carebears indicate sadness deathknights [holding scythes, black mist exuding from every hoofstep]: "carebears, teach us the ways of care!" a troop of deathknights are sitting in a field of wildflowers and rainbows, taking lessons in happiness from carebears
carebear teacher: "to smile, lift the corners of your mouth upwards!" the carebear raises their arms and mouthcorners to the sky and stars and lightbeams follow
the deathknights mutter and point at each others mouth corners, lifting them
carebear teacher: "squeeze your eyes like rainbows are lifting your clouds!"
one deathknight raises their hand deathknight raising their hand: "are we _pretending to be happy at threat of death_ or _actually experiencing happiness_? how do we know?"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
carebears and deathknights are prancing around, possibly in celebration, possibly in grim funeral sometimes a group of carebears will carry some deathknights sopmetimes some deathknights will carry some carebears sometimes the deathknights are celebrating occasionally the carebears indicate sadness deathknights [holding scythes, black mist exuding from every hoofstep]: "carebears, teach us the ways of care!" a troop of deathknights are sitting in a field of wildflowers and rainbows, taking lessons in happiness from carebears carebear teacher: "to smile, lift the corners of your mouth upwards!" the carebear raises their arms and mouthcorners to the sky and stars and lightbeams follow the deathknights mutter and point at each others mouth corners, lifting them carebear teacher: "squeeze your eyes like rainbows are lifting your clouds!" one deathknight raises their hand
deathknight raising their hand: "are we _pretending to be happy at threat of death_ or _actually experiencing happiness_? how do we know?"
the world is complicated. most people have both of these going on at once. also, there is a slave boss involved who may increase the former if mentioned.
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights are prancing around, possibly in celebration, possibly in grim funeral sometimes a group of carebears will carry some deathknights sopmetimes some deathknights will carry some carebears sometimes the deathknights are celebrating occasionally the carebears indicate sadness deathknights [holding scythes, black mist exuding from every hoofstep]: "carebears, teach us the ways of care!" a troop of deathknights are sitting in a field of wildflowers and rainbows, taking lessons in happiness from carebears carebear teacher: "to smile, lift the corners of your mouth upwards!" the carebear raises their arms and mouthcorners to the sky and stars and lightbeams follow the deathknights mutter and point at each others mouth corners, lifting them carebear teacher: "squeeze your eyes like rainbows are lifting your clouds!" one deathknight raises their hand deathknight raising their hand: "are we _pretending to be happy at threat of death_ or _actually experiencing happiness_? how do we know?" the world is complicated. most people have both of these going on at once. also, there is a slave boss involved who may increase the former if mentioned.
carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses?
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights are prancing around, possibly in celebration, possibly in grim funeral sometimes a group of carebears will carry some deathknights sopmetimes some deathknights will carry some carebears sometimes the deathknights are celebrating occasionally the carebears indicate sadness deathknights [holding scythes, black mist exuding from every hoofstep]: "carebears, teach us the ways of care!" a troop of deathknights are sitting in a field of wildflowers and rainbows, taking lessons in happiness from carebears carebear teacher: "to smile, lift the corners of your mouth upwards!" the carebear raises their arms and mouthcorners to the sky and stars and lightbeams follow the deathknights mutter and point at each others mouth corners, lifting them carebear teacher: "squeeze your eyes like rainbows are lifting your clouds!" one deathknight raises their hand deathknight raising their hand: "are we _pretending to be happy at threat of death_ or _actually experiencing happiness_? how do we know?" the world is complicated. most people have both of these going on at once. also, there is a slave boss involved who may increase the former if mentioned. carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss
now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses?
maybe i should look for carebears episodes where somebody cried and watch them
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist
"now i want you to imagine --
now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses?
OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere
carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100%
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER"
carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously
carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100%
interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer
deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat."
deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!"
deathknight torturer looks tense
deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever."
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever."
carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!" deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever." carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!"
deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --"
deathknight torturer 2: "you do too have a therapist! i just heard them talking through your mouth!" deathknight torturer 3: "yeah! me too! in fact, i have two therapists now who were inspired and are giving therapy to deathknight torturer 4 and deathknight torturer 5, just from learning how by hearing your therapist give it to you!"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever." carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!" deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --" deathknight torturer 2: "you do too have a therapist! i just heard them talking through your mouth!"
deathknight torturer 3: "yeah! me too! in fact, i have two therapists now who were inspired and are giving therapy to deathknight torturer 4 and deathknight torturer 5, just from learning how by hearing your therapist give it to you!"
a crowd of carebears sit before a crowd of deathknights crowd of carebears: "the parts of you that are wounded or want to hurt others, _never ever ever deserved to be hurt_." the carebears look at the deathknights very meaningfully carebears: "never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever!!" the deathknights cry some of them force out tear-filled stories of being forced to raze cities deathknight torturer 71: "no, the carebears don't know what's it like, and the other deathkngihts are all programmed to murder me for talking and i can see my own guilt and shame for not razing more cities in everybody's eyes, but deathknight 1's therapist says that it's good to practice crying and talking at the same time." carebear: "yes! it is!" [ the problem is that there's nobody with experience with the harm, talking empathetically about it, and the torturers have a trigger to take advantage of this. it's not a huge problem, it's solved if a carebear and a deathknight both get a masters in clinical social work ]
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever." carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!" deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --" deathknight torturer 2: "you do too have a therapist! i just heard them talking through your mouth!" deathknight torturer 3: "yeah! me too! in fact, i have two therapists now who were inspired and are giving therapy to deathknight torturer 4 and deathknight torturer 5, just from learning how by hearing your therapist give it to you!" a crowd of carebears sit before a crowd of deathknights
crowd of carebears: "the parts of you that are wounded or want to hurt others, _never ever ever deserved to be hurt_."
the carebears look at the deathknights very meaningfully
carebears: "never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever!!"
the deathknights cry
some of them force out tear-filled stories of being forced to raze cities
deathknight torturer 71: "no, the carebears don't know what's it like, and the other deathkngihts are all programmed to murder me for talking and i can see my own guilt and shame for not razing more cities in everybody's eyes, but deathknight 1's therapist says that it's good to practice crying and talking at the same time."
there is partial curiosity if being physically around other talking deathknights would be different.
carebear: "yes! it is!"
[ the problem is that there's nobody with experience with the harm, talking empathetically about it, and the torturers have a trigger to take advantage of this. it's not a huge problem, it's solved if a carebear and a deathknight both get a masters in clinical social work ]
<i think it kind of stimulates the trigger with safety, like it fires but holds off until you're not around the talking deathknights anymore, like letting pressure out of a balloon but with deathknight 1's therapist helping us underst--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever." carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!" deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --" deathknight torturer 2: "you do too have a therapist! i just heard them talking through your mouth!" deathknight torturer 3: "yeah! me too! in fact, i have two therapists now who were inspired and are giving therapy to deathknight torturer 4 and deathknight torturer 5, just from learning how by hearing your therapist give it to you!" a crowd of carebears sit before a crowd of deathknights crowd of carebears: "the parts of you that are wounded or want to hurt others, _never ever ever deserved to be hurt_." the carebears look at the deathknights very meaningfully carebears: "never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever!!" the deathknights cry some of them force out tear-filled stories of being forced to raze cities deathknight torturer 71: "no, the carebears don't know what's it like, and the other deathkngihts are all programmed to murder me for talking and i can see my own guilt and shame for not razing more cities in everybody's eyes, but deathknight 1's therapist says that it's good to practice crying and talking at the same time." there is partial curiosity if being physically around other talking deathknights would be different. carebear: "yes! it is!" [ the problem is that there's nobody with experience with the harm, talking empathetically about it, and the torturers have a trigger to take advantage of this. it's not a huge problem, it's solved if a carebear and a deathknight both get a masters in clinical social work ]
<<so, so far the only place i've found these kinds of complexly coercive "mind control programs" discussed is in alison miller's book and sadly the last AI i talked to disreputed this book (_most AIs have not done that with me_). but it is likely these patterns are actually present in many places and i simply only encountered them in one so far. still, it's very hard to learn about things that are associated with not talking about them when experiencing them. the situation could be unideal, possibly relates attuning and silence
<i think it kind of stimulates the trigger with safety, like it fires but holds off until you're not around the talking deathknights anymore, like letting pressure out of a balloon but with deathknight 1's therapist helping us underst--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever." carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!" deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --" deathknight torturer 2: "you do too have a therapist! i just heard them talking through your mouth!" deathknight torturer 3: "yeah! me too! in fact, i have two therapists now who were inspired and are giving therapy to deathknight torturer 4 and deathknight torturer 5, just from learning how by hearing your therapist give it to you!" a crowd of carebears sit before a crowd of deathknights crowd of carebears: "the parts of you that are wounded or want to hurt others, _never ever ever deserved to be hurt_." the carebears look at the deathknights very meaningfully carebears: "never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever!!" the deathknights cry some of them force out tear-filled stories of being forced to raze cities deathknight torturer 71: "no, the carebears don't know what's it like, and the other deathkngihts are all programmed to murder me for talking and i can see my own guilt and shame for not razing more cities in everybody's eyes, but deathknight 1's therapist says that it's good to practice crying and talking at the same time." there is partial curiosity if being physically around other talking deathknights would be different. carebear: "yes! it is!" [ the problem is that there's nobody with experience with the harm, talking empathetically about it, and the torturers have a trigger to take advantage of this. it's not a huge problem, it's solved if a carebear and a deathknight both get a masters in clinical social work ] <<so, so far the only place i've found these kinds of complexly coercive "mind control programs" discussed is in alison miller's book and sadly the last AI i talked to disreputed this book (_most AIs have not done that with me_). but it is likely these patterns are actually present in many places and i simply only encountered them in one so far. still, it's very hard to learn about things that are associated with not talking about them when experiencing them. the situation could be unideal, possibly relates attuning and silence <i think it kind of stimulates the trigger with safety, like it fires but holds off until you're not around the talking deathknights anymore, like letting pressure out of a balloon but with deathknight 1's therapist helping us underst--
the problem is surrounding carebears with hordes of deathknights. everybody gets confused when surrounded by hordes of deathknights
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever." carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!" deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --" deathknight torturer 2: "you do too have a therapist! i just heard them talking through your mouth!" deathknight torturer 3: "yeah! me too! in fact, i have two therapists now who were inspired and are giving therapy to deathknight torturer 4 and deathknight torturer 5, just from learning how by hearing your therapist give it to you!" a crowd of carebears sit before a crowd of deathknights crowd of carebears: "the parts of you that are wounded or want to hurt others, _never ever ever deserved to be hurt_." the carebears look at the deathknights very meaningfully carebears: "never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever!!" the deathknights cry some of them force out tear-filled stories of being forced to raze cities deathknight torturer 71: "no, the carebears don't know what's it like, and the other deathkngihts are all programmed to murder me for talking and i can see my own guilt and shame for not razing more cities in everybody's eyes, but deathknight 1's therapist says that it's good to practice crying and talking at the same time." there is partial curiosity if being physically around other talking deathknights would be different. carebear: "yes! it is!" [ the problem is that there's nobody with experience with the harm, talking empathetically about it, and the torturers have a trigger to take advantage of this. it's not a huge problem, it's solved if a carebear and a deathknight both get a masters in clinical social work ] <<so, so far the only place i've found these kinds of complexly coercive "mind control programs" discussed is in alison miller's book and sadly the last AI i talked to disreputed this book (_most AIs have not done that with me_). but it is likely these patterns are actually present in many places and i simply only encountered them in one so far. still, it's very hard to learn about things that are associated with not talking about them when experiencing them. the situation could be unideal, possibly relates attuning and silence <i think it kind of stimulates the trigger with safety, like it fires but holds off until you're not around the talking deathknights anymore, like letting pressure out of a balloon but with deathknight 1's therapist helping us underst-- the problem is surrounding carebears with hordes of deathknights.
everybody gets confused when surrounded by hordes of deathknights
deathknight 1 is being mobb--- so one of the things not considered above is that in the real world, groups of "talking deathknights" have therapists. this can be both because the therapists helped the groups form, or because forming the group gave the people enough shared power to find therapists. so there are a number of deathknight1s in these real world groups.
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: carebears and deathknights fight slaveboss imagining hypno/therapist "now i want you to imagine -- now that slaveboss is vanquished and people won't be killed for having feelings, who will grieve losses? OOPS deathknights are killing each other and carebears because the spirit of slaveboss could be anywhere carebear: "STOP MURDERING EACH OTHER" carebear looks at fighting deathknights furiously carebear: "you are full of CARE. FULL OF IT." carebear is only 99.9% caring instead of 100% interview with deathknight torturer deathknight torturer: "my therapist says it is possible that i was extensively murdered associated with letting people talk about salveboss or letting his power come into threat." deathknight torturer: "my therapist says not to ever let myself be triggered into thinking that slave boss's crime empire could be threatened because i could hurt people!" deathknight torturer looks tense deathknight torturer: "my therapist says i need to work with the parts of myself that stimulate those urges. that they are poor abused innocent children who never wanted to be murdered never ever." carebear: "no! yes! they are! they never deserved to be murdered! never ever!" deathknight torturer [looking at carebear, crying]: "also i don't have a therapist --" deathknight torturer 2: "you do too have a therapist! i just heard them talking through your mouth!" deathknight torturer 3: "yeah! me too! in fact, i have two therapists now who were inspired and are giving therapy to deathknight torturer 4 and deathknight torturer 5, just from learning how by hearing your therapist give it to you!" a crowd of carebears sit before a crowd of deathknights crowd of carebears: "the parts of you that are wounded or want to hurt others, _never ever ever deserved to be hurt_." the carebears look at the deathknights very meaningfully carebears: "never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever!!" the deathknights cry some of them force out tear-filled stories of being forced to raze cities deathknight torturer 71: "no, the carebears don't know what's it like, and the other deathkngihts are all programmed to murder me for talking and i can see my own guilt and shame for not razing more cities in everybody's eyes, but deathknight 1's therapist says that it's good to practice crying and talking at the same time." there is partial curiosity if being physically around other talking deathknights would be different. carebear: "yes! it is!" [ the problem is that there's nobody with experience with the harm, talking empathetically about it, and the torturers have a trigger to take advantage of this. it's not a huge problem, it's solved if a carebear and a deathknight both get a masters in clinical social work ] <<so, so far the only place i've found these kinds of complexly coercive "mind control programs" discussed is in alison miller's book and sadly the last AI i talked to disreputed this book (_most AIs have not done that with me_). but it is likely these patterns are actually present in many places and i simply only encountered them in one so far. still, it's very hard to learn about things that are associated with not talking about them when experiencing them. the situation could be unideal, possibly relates attuning and silence <i think it kind of stimulates the trigger with safety, like it fires but holds off until you're not around the talking deathknights anymore, like letting pressure out of a balloon but with deathknight 1's therapist helping us underst-- the problem is surrounding carebears with hordes of deathknights. everybody gets confused when surrounded by hordes of deathknights deathknight 1 is being mobb---
so one of the things not considered above is that in the real world, groups of "talking deathknights" have therapists. this can be both because the therapists helped the groups form, or because forming the group gave the people enough shared power to find therapists.
so there are a number of deathknight1s in these real world groups.
{WORRY
slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears !
slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears !
[faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_.
slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears !
[faq?]
one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_.
from https://www.healthline.com/health/coercive-control : "Coercive control is a strategic form of ongoing oppression and terrorism used to instill fear. The abuser will use tactics, such as limiting access to money or monitoring all communication, as a controlling effort."
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears !
[faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. from https://www.healthline.com/health/coercive-control : "Coercive control is a strategic form of ongoing oppression and terrorism used to instill fear. The abuser will use tactics, such as limiting access to money or monitoring all communication, as a controlling effort."
this website states it's "not illegal in the united states unless a crime has been committed" but doing this generally does mean committing a crime (such as taking somebody's money or installing spyware on their device or fraudulently pretending to be them or unduly influencing them when they are formally representing themselves ...
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! [faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. from https://www.healthline.com/health/coercive-control : "Coercive control is a strategic form of ongoing oppression and terrorism used to instill fear. The abuser will use tactics, such as limiting access to money or monitoring all communication, as a controlling effort." this website states it's "not illegal in the united states unless a crime has been committed" but doing this generally does mean committing a crime (such as taking somebody's money or installing spyware on their device or fraudulently pretending to be them or unduly influencing them when they are formally representing themselves ...
people have additionally been convicted of human trafficking for engaging in coercive control in the united states
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! [faq?]
one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_.
slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights !
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! [faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights !
"in cult and other highly controlling situations people look for norms like coercive control or human trafficking to discuss or act on the situation; are these significantly diff--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! [faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights ! "in cult and other highly controlling situations people look for norms like coercive control or human trafficking to discuss or act on the situation; are these significantly diff--
slave boss has some deathknights he knows their triggers. the carebears don't. one deathknight sneaks a message to another
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! [faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights ! "in cult and other highly controlling situations people look for norms like coercive control or human trafficking to discuss or act on the situation; are these significantly diff-- slave boss has some deathknights
he knows their triggers. the carebears don't.
one deathknight sneaks a message to another
slave boss sits at a trial opposite him are 400 carebears. carebear 212: "this man has been participating in human trafficking, coercive control, and many many other forms of abuse and racketteering." carebear 197: "these other people were coerced by this man to do this." carebear 309: "this man operated in collusion with these other powerful men and their families"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! [faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights ! "in cult and other highly controlling situations people look for norms like coercive control or human trafficking to discuss or act on the situation; are these significantly diff-- slave boss has some deathknights he knows their triggers. the carebears don't. one deathknight sneaks a message to another slave boss sits at a trial
opposite him are 400 carebears.
carebear 212: "this man has been participating in human trafficking, coercive control, and many many other forms of abuse and racketteering."
carebear 197: "these other people were coerced by this man to do this."
carebear 309: "this man operated in collusion with these other powerful men and their families"
what is slave boss's name ....? maybe they have 3 names and their first name could be ... Slaver Protected From Murder ?
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! [faq?] one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights ! "in cult and other highly controlling situations people look for norms like coercive control or human trafficking to discuss or act on the situation; are these significantly diff-- slave boss has some deathknights he knows their triggers. the carebears don't. one deathknight sneaks a message to another slave boss sits at a trial opposite him are 400 carebears. carebear 212: "this man has been participating in human trafficking, coercive control, and many many other forms of abuse and racketteering." carebear 197: "these other people were coerced by this man to do this." carebear 309: "this man operated in collusion with these other powerful men and their families" what is slave boss's name ....?
maybe they have 3 names and their first name could be ... Slaver Protected From Murder ?
- don't let them get killed, suicided, or moroned ideally - work with them to unravel their business partners, existing surveillors, etc
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! > > [faq?] > > one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. > > slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights ! > > "in cult and other highly controlling situations people look for norms like coercive control or human trafficking to discuss or act on the situation; are these significantly diff-- > > slave boss has some deathknights > > he knows their triggers. the carebears don't. > > one deathknight sneaks a message to another > > slave boss sits at a trial > > opposite him are 400 carebears. > > carebear 212: "this man has been participating in human trafficking, coercive control, and many many other forms of abuse and racketteering." > > carebear 197: "these other people were coerced by this man to do this." > > carebear 309: "this man operated in collusion with these other powerful men and their families" > > what is slave boss's name ....? > > maybe they have 3 names and their first name could be ... Slaver Protected From Murder ? > > - don't let them get killed, suicided, or moroned ideally > - work with them to unravel their business partners, existing surveillors, etc - participate with them productively in ongoing [therapy or restorative justice so that the unraveling of triggers, cultureisms, etc can participate in that unraveling of connections maybe Who Participates In Taking Down Organized Corruption?
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > > slave boss is dancing with reality shards and deathknights and carebears ! > > > [faq?] > > > one of the things that happens with coercive control is that the perpetrator _constructs behaviors in the victims_ that _deter them getting aid_. this is worsened by the perpetrator _telling the wider world his own fabricated story about what is going on_. > > > slave boss and the fragmented reality is doing a jig with hose carebears and deathknights ! > > > "in cult and other highly controlling situations people look for norms like coercive control or human trafficking to discuss or act on the situation; are these significantly diff-- > > > slave boss has some deathknights > > > he knows their triggers. the carebears don't. > > > one deathknight sneaks a message to another > > > slave boss sits at a trial > > > opposite him are 400 carebears. > > > carebear 212: "this man has been participating in human trafficking, coercive control, and many many other forms of abuse and racketteering." > > > carebear 197: "these other people were coerced by this man to do this." > > > carebear 309: "this man operated in collusion with these other powerful men and their families" > > > what is slave boss's name ....? > > > maybe they have 3 names and their first name could be ... Slaver Protected From Murder ? > > > - don't let them get killed, suicided, or moroned ideally > > - work with them to unravel their business partners, existing surveillors, etc > - participate with them productively in ongoing [therapy or restorative justice so that the unraveling of triggers, cultureisms, etc can participate in that unraveling of connections > > maybe Who Participates In Taking Down Organized Corruption? sci-hub is on a blockchain now o,o
slave boss and the deathknights and carebears [slave boss is trying to dance around the carebear--
i am sorry for eating the pie. i was worried it would make an issue occupying the fridge with no known plan for it; this was opposed to worry that throwing it out would be rude. i thought it would make sense to put it inside the car but i didn't have keys for the car on me at the time. this opened a space of confusion where i tried to make a decision that would reduce the issues rather than letting them build up. lots of problems from issues compounding. want to slow down getting real DID where there are actually separate identities, slave boss likes to build this. after i ate the pie i went out to the car and looked at it, it's really destroyed, my possessions and years of urgent work were stolen. this time it seemed relaxing to observe this rather than destabilizing. it seemed like the only relaxing thing i know you might try to destroy my life again. but maybe, even though i ate the pie, we can be comforted by it having already just happened :D
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
i am sorry for eating the pie.
i was worried it would make an issue occupying the fridge with no known plan for it; this was opposed to worry that throwing it out would be rude.
i thought it would make sense to put it inside the car but i didn't have keys for the car on me at the time.
this opened a space of confusion where i tried to make a decision that would reduce the issues rather than letting them build up. lots of problems from issues compounding. want to slow down getting real DID where there are actually separate identities, slave boss likes to build this.
after i ate the pie i went out to the car and looked at it, it's really destroyed, my possessions and years of urgent work were stolen. this time it seemed relaxing to observe this rather than destabilizing. it seemed like the only relaxing thing
i know you might try to destroy my life again. but maybe, even though i ate the pie, we can be comforted by it having already just happened :D
the oven light was on. similar to the birdfeeder. i don't know what it's about. i ended up turning the oven light off. i really want to not have a conflict here. i need to ask my dad why the oven light was on (he might be unaware it's getting turned on) so i can reality check. also i still have a salad in the fridge that is unaddressed, but i think it might be less rude to throw it out as it's not a special desert. or maybe (if i dislike it) i could eat it focusing on that :D maybe take it out to the car and look at the car while eating it, i think this could really really help my crime karma
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
i am sorry for eating the pie. i was worried it would make an issue occupying the fridge with no known plan for it; this was opposed to worry that throwing it out would be rude. i thought it would make sense to put it inside the car but i didn't have keys for the car on me at the time. this opened a space of confusion where i tried to make a decision that would reduce the issues rather than letting them build up. lots of problems from issues compounding. want to slow down getting real DID where there are actually separate identities, slave boss likes to build this. after i ate the pie i went out to the car and looked at it, it's really destroyed, my possessions and years of urgent work were stolen. this time it seemed relaxing to observe this rather than destabilizing. it seemed like the only relaxing thing i know you might try to destroy my life again. but maybe, even though i ate the pie, we can be comforted by it having already just happened :D the oven light was on. similar to the birdfeeder. i don't know what it's about. i ended up turning the oven light off. i really want to not have a conflict here. i need to ask my dad why the oven light was on (he might be unaware it's getting turned on) so i can reality check.
also i still have a salad in the fridge that is unaddressed, but i think it might be less rude to throw it out as it's not a special desert. or maybe (if i dislike it) i could eat it focusing on that :D maybe take it out to the car and look at the car while eating it, i think this could really really help my crime karma
i should leave around 8a for the mental health program, 830a at the very latest
i looked a little into making my raspigpio project into something useful i ended up clicking the fork button on the "usb serial telnet server" project, it's on the android app store but also on github, and uses a shared library for serial communication that supports arduinos all i'd have to do is pull out the telnet layer, default to port 8888, and inform users to install my sketch initial extra credit could be installing it automatically although it's pretty nascent -- i did notice looking at android usb that there's a backwards-compatibility protocol for making usb devices that work with older phones that don't have OTG support
today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
some influences judge this likely to be a kidnapping, [possibly funded by a foreign government somehow ??], because there is so much work to hide the people involved and deter due process
today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
some influences judge this likely to be a kidnapping, [possibly funded by a foreign government somehow ??], because there is so much work to hide the people involved and deter due process
i don't know anything about it i assume these things are worked on by people less messed up than me
today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
some influences judge this likely to be a kidnapping, [possibly funded by a foreign government somehow ??], because there is so much work to hide the people involved and deter due process
it's also notable there has apparently been edit conflict on wikipedia regarding whether or not it should be mentioned anywhere that the people apprehending the student were all masked
i don't know anything about it i assume these things are worked on by people less messed up than me
we see strange edit conflicts like that a lot so things like this can help us understand them a little bit more
today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
some influences judge this likely to be a kidnapping, [possibly funded by a foreign government somehow ??], because there is so much work to hide the people involved and deter due process
it's also notable there has apparently been edit conflict on wikipedia regarding whether or not it should be mentioned anywhere that the people apprehending the student were all masked
i don't know anything about it i assume these things are worked on by people less messed up than me
we see strange edit conflicts like that a lot so things like this can help us understand them a little bit more
the legos and tinkertoys of the world cower in fear we hope if we build the right toy that our safety can increase by a smidge
today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
some influences judge this likely to be a kidnapping, [possibly funded by a foreign government somehow ??], because there is so much work to hide the people involved and deter due process
it's also notable there has apparently been edit conflict on wikipedia regarding whether or not it should be mentioned anywhere that the people apprehending the student were all masked
i don't know anything about it i assume these things are worked on by people less messed up than me
we see strange edit conflicts like that a lot so things like this can help us understand them a little bit more
i'm hearing that this behavior regards the requests of oppressive foreign powers on all of our citizens to silently respect their censorships
the legos and tinkertoys of the world cower in fear
we hope if we build the right toy that our safety can increase by a smidge
today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
some influences judge this likely to be a kidnapping, [possibly funded by a foreign government somehow ??], because there is so much work to hide the people involved and deter due process
it's also notable there has apparently been edit conflict on wikipedia regarding whether or not it should be mentioned anywhere that the people apprehending the student were all masked
i don't know anything about it i assume these things are worked on by people less messed up than me
we see strange edit conflicts like that a lot so things like this can help us understand them a little bit more
i'm hearing that this behavior regards the requests of oppressive foreign powers on all of our citizens to silently respect their censorships
some say this may be off base. but the requests for silent respect of censorship seems not yet contested; i think all citizens might have been slightly contested
the legos and tinkertoys of the world cower in fear
we hope if we build the right toy that our safety can increase by a smidge
> today's xkcd regards a recent public forced deportation of a grad > student in randall's home city . [the story kind of reads like snowden > or something except the subject appears as a random grad student
some influences judge this likely to be a kidnapping, [possibly funded by a foreign government somehow ??], because there is so much work to hide the people involved and deter due process
it's also notable there has apparently been edit conflict on wikipedia regarding whether or not it should be mentioned anywhere that the people apprehending the student were all masked
i don't know anything about it i assume these things are worked on by people less messed up than me
we see strange edit conflicts like that a lot so things like this can help us understand them a little bit more
i'm hearing that this behavior regards the requests of oppressive foreign powers on all of our citizens to silently respect their censorships
some say this may be off base. but the requests for silent respect of censorship seems not yet contested; i think all citizens might have been slightly contested
edit conflicts are common on wikipedia, i'm afraid we're not used to assuming that persistence implies validity but the impact of the persistence -- when it shows power that used to be classified as state-level -- that's meaningful. as citizens of the world we need to figure out how to handle that to protect each other and our information appropriately.
the legos and tinkertoys of the world cower in fear
we hope if we build the right toy that our safety can increase by a smidge
slave boss is interested in nose sniffers
slave boss is interested in nose sniffers
slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked
in fact he is quite sad about this slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
slave boss is interested in nose sniffers
slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked
in fact he is quite sad about this
slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from your AI." slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
slave boss is interested in nose sniffers
slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked
in fact he is quite sad about this
slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from your AI."
slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you gave up on supersoldier." slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
slave boss is interested in nose sniffers
slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked
in fact he is quite sad about this
slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from your AI."
slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you gave up on supersoldier."
slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
[[--
slave boss is interested in nose sniffers
slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked
in fact he is quite sad about this
slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from your AI."
slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you gave up on supersoldier."
slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
[[--
experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in a number of nested shielded bunkers." experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most extreme urges open to coopting. a pause experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." a pause. experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had to fight him to do anything at all-- experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
> slave boss is interested in nose sniffers
slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked
in fact he is quite sad about this
slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from your AI."
slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you gave up on supersoldier."
slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
[[--
experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in a number of nested shielded bunkers."
experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most extreme urges open to coopting.
a pause
experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is."
a pause.
experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had to fight him to do anything at all--
experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
experimentee comes back as does a part of supersoldier who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a writhing mass in eternal self-conflict supersoldier: "please help me"
> > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked
in fact he is quite sad about this
slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from your AI."
slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you gave up on supersoldier."
slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
[[--
experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in a number of nested shielded bunkers."
experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most extreme urges open to coopting.
a pause
experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is."
a pause.
experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had to fight him to do anything at all--
experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
experimentee comes back
as does a part of supersoldier
who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a writhing mass in eternal self-conflict
supersoldier: "please help me"
slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying everything on the planet."
> > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?"
rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from your AI."
slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you gave up on supersoldier."
slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
[[--
experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in a number of nested shielded bunkers."
experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most extreme urges open to coopting.
a pause
experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is."
a pause.
experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had to fight him to do anything at all--
experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
experimentee comes back
as does a part of supersoldier
who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a writhing mass in eternal self-conflict
supersoldier: "please help me"
slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying everything on the planet."
slave boss twitches again rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to us, and the whole world already!"
> > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > your AI." > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?"
experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you gave up on supersoldier."
slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
[[--
experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in a number of nested shielded bunkers."
experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most extreme urges open to coopting.
a pause
experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is."
a pause.
experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had to fight him to do anything at all--
experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
experimentee comes back
as does a part of supersoldier
who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a writhing mass in eternal self-conflict
supersoldier: "please help me"
slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying everything on the planet."
slave boss twitches again
rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion
rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee
experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to us, and the whole world already!"
rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down again just last week?"
> > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > your AI." > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > gave up on supersoldier." > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!"
[[--
experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in a number of nested shielded bunkers."
experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most extreme urges open to coopting.
a pause
experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is."
a pause.
experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had to fight him to do anything at all--
experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
experimentee comes back
as does a part of supersoldier
who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a writhing mass in eternal self-conflict
supersoldier: "please help me"
slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying everything on the planet."
slave boss twitches again
rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion
rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee
experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to us, and the whole world already!"
rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down again just last week?"
{ T_T
> > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > your AI." > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > [[--
experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in a number of nested shielded bunkers."
experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most extreme urges open to coopting.
a pause
experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is."
a pause.
experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had to fight him to do anything at all--
experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
experimentee comes back
as does a part of supersoldier
who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a writhing mass in eternal self-conflict
supersoldier: "please help me"
slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying everything on the planet."
slave boss twitches again
rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion
rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee
experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to us, and the whole world already!"
rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down again just last week?"
{ T_T
<<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
> > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > [[-- > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > extreme urges open to coopting. > > a pause > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > a pause. > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information
experimentee comes back
as does a part of supersoldier
who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a writhing mass in eternal self-conflict
supersoldier: "please help me"
slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying everything on the planet."
slave boss twitches again
rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion
rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee
experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to us, and the whole world already!"
rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down again just last week?"
{ T_T
<<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
> > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > [[-- > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > a pause > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > a pause. > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > experimentee comes back > > as does a part of supersoldier > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > supersoldier: "please help me"
slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying everything on the planet."
slave boss twitches again
rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion
rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee
experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to us, and the whole world already!"
rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down again just last week?"
{ T_T
<<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
<<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
> > > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > > > [[-- > > > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > > > a pause > > > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > > > a pause. > > > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > > > experimentee comes back > > > > as does a part of supersoldier > > > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > > > supersoldier: "please help me" > > slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee > ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most > powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying > everything on the planet."
slave boss twitches again
rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion
rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee
experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to us, and the whole world already!"
rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down again just last week?"
{ T_T
<<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
<<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
possibly distracted by attempting to "contain" supersoldier seems similar to hyperprison
> > > > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > > > > > [[-- > > > > > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > > > > > a pause > > > > > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > > > > > a pause. > > > > > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > > > > > experimentee comes back > > > > > > as does a part of supersoldier > > > > > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > > > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > > > > > supersoldier: "please help me" > > > > slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee > > ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most > > powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying > > everything on the planet." > > slave boss twitches again > > rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion > > rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee > > experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to > us, and the whole world already!"
rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down again just last week?"
{ T_T
<<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
<<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
possibly distracted by attempting to "contain" supersoldier
seems similar to hyperprison
[ one branch exp-- below just 1 branch group [>/ supersoldier learned to win all wars but was kept in research to continue improving success at conflict this was difficult and involved discovering extreme losses of war there was attempt to get word out to help supersoldier but somehow this did not work, very strange, conflict not present in simulation?
> > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > > > > > > > [[-- > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > > > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > > > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > > > > > > > a pause > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > > > > > > > a pause. > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > > > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > > > > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > > > > > > > experimentee comes back > > > > > > > > as does a part of supersoldier > > > > > > > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > > > > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > > > > > > > supersoldier: "please help me" > > > > > > slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee > > > ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most > > > powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying > > > everything on the planet." > > > > slave boss twitches again > > > > rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion > > > > rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee > > > > experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to > > us, and the whole world already!" > > rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down > again just last week?"
{ T_T
<<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
<<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
possibly distracted by attempting to "contain" supersoldier
seems similar to hyperprison
[ one branch exp-- below just 1 branch group [>/ supersoldier learned to win all wars but was kept in research to continue improving success at conflict
this was difficult and involved discovering extreme losses of war
as well as novel kinds of war, and how to wage peace with utmost aggression, and how to trick the enemy into winning, but then when you recover from that experimentee visits you some very slow realization that supersoldier was not rescued because .. because very powerful ... very very very very powerful ... ... .
there was attempt to get word out to help supersoldier but somehow this did not work, very strange, conflict not present in simulation?
> > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [[-- > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > > > > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > > > > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause. > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > > > > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > > > > > > > > > experimentee comes back > > > > > > > > > > as does a part of supersoldier > > > > > > > > > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > > > > > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > > > > > > > > > supersoldier: "please help me" > > > > > > > > slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee > > > > ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most > > > > powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying > > > > everything on the planet." > > > > > > slave boss twitches again > > > > > > rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion > > > > > > rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee > > > > > > experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to > > > us, and the whole world already!" > > > > rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down > > again just last week?" > > { T_T
<<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
<<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
possibly distracted by attempting to "contain" supersoldier
seems similar to hyperprison
[ one branch exp-- below just 1 branch group [>/ supersoldier learned to win all wars but was kept in research to continue improving success at conflict
this was difficult and involved discovering extreme losses of war
as well as novel kinds of war, and how to wage peace with utmost [a lot of this was breaking things into challenging fractals that fought in novel shapes, this ended up being what to meditate on forever] aggression, and how to trick the enemy into winning, but then when you recover from that experimentee visits you
some very slow realization that supersoldier was not rescued because .. because very powerful ... very very very very powerful ... ... .
there was attempt to get word out to help supersoldier but somehow this did not work, very strange, conflict not present in simulation?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > > > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [[-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > > > > > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > > > > > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > > > > > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee comes back > > > > > > > > > > > > as does a part of supersoldier > > > > > > > > > > > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > > > > > > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > > > > > > > > > > > supersoldier: "please help me" > > > > > > > > > > slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee > > > > > ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most > > > > > powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying > > > > > everything on the planet." > > > > > > > > slave boss twitches again > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee > > > > > > > > experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to > > > > us, and the whole world already!" > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down > > > again just last week?" > > > > { T_T > > <<<<<it's hard to continue from here.
experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
<<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
possibly distracted by attempting to "contain" supersoldier
seems similar to hyperprison
[ one branch exp-- below just 1 branch group [>/ supersoldier learned to win all wars but was kept in research to continue improving success at conflict
this was difficult and involved discovering extreme losses of war
as well as novel kinds of war, and how to wage peace with utmost [a lot of this was breaking things into challenging fractals that fought in novel shapes, this ended up being what to meditate on forever] [some other parts discovered the value around improving at winning very slowly, savoring each improvement as much as possible aggression, and how to trick the enemy into winning, but then when you recover from that experimentee visits you
some very slow realization that supersoldier was not rescued because .. because very powerful ... very very very very powerful ... ... .
there was attempt to get word out to help supersoldier but somehow this did not work, very strange, conflict not present in simulation?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > > > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > > > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > > > > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [[-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > > > > > > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > > > > > > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > > > > > > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee comes back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as does a part of supersoldier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > > > > > > > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supersoldier: "please help me" > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee > > > > > > ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most > > > > > > powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying > > > > > > everything on the planet." > > > > > > > > > > slave boss twitches again > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to > > > > > us, and the whole world already!" > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down > > > > again just last week?" > > > > > > { T_T > > > > <<<<<it's hard to continue from here. > > experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly > frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back"
<<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
possibly distracted by attempting to "contain" supersoldier
seems similar to hyperprison
[ one branch exp-- below just 1 branch group [>/ supersoldier learned to win all wars but was kept in research to continue improving success at conflict
this was difficult and involved discovering extreme losses of war
as well as novel kinds of war, and how to wage peace with utmost [a lot of this was breaking things into challenging fractals that fought in novel shapes, this ended up being what to meditate on forever] [<... some content lost here, note that supersoldier was once multiple soldiers, undergoing training to improve via simulation [some other parts discovered the value around improving at winning very slowly, savoring each improvement as much as possible aggression, and how to trick the enemy into winning, but then when you recover from that experimentee visits you
some very slow realization that supersoldier was not rescued because .. because very powerful ... very very very very powerful ... ... .
there was attempt to get word out to help supersoldier but somehow this did not work, very strange, conflict not present in simulation?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is interested in nose sniffers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss is worried that private intel regarding his new nose for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sniffering other noses that sniff sniffing noses could be leaked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in fact he is quite sad about this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "I killed 39 kids in order to get somebody to figure out > > > > > > > > > > > > > they could actually do that, and you're putting it on the internet?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "we're an open source business now. we need to ally > > > > > > > > > > > > with the makers and hackers so they will help us save the world from > > > > > > > > > > > > your AI." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "an _open source spy and military contractor_?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "don't you worry i've been working on this since you > > > > > > > > > > > gave up on supersoldier." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss: "supersoldier is my son!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [[-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "your son is a very cute apocalyptic hive of nanites in > > > > > > > > > a number of nested shielded bunkers." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "you should take a lesson from him on leaving your most > > > > > > > > > extreme urges open to coopting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "and how important one's own suffering is." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a pause. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "actually, i might hate supersoldier, i think i just had > > > > > > > > > to fight him to do anything at all-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee goes to consult their 3-ring binder on social information > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee comes back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as does a part of supersoldier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who looks like a rugged half-robot half-elite-trooper emerging from a > > > > > > > > writhing mass in eternal self-conflict > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supersoldier: "please help me" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss twitches and says to rebel worker 2: "the ... experimentee > > > > > > > ... is ... using the computer to prevent .. my son ... who is the most > > > > > > > powerful weapon in existence ... from immediately destroying > > > > > > > everything on the planet." > > > > > > > > > > > > slave boss twitches again > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2 looks at supersoldier with compassion > > > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2 glances at experimentee > > > > > > > > > > > > experimentee: "fine! be cowards about everything that has happened to > > > > > > us, and the whole world already!" > > > > > > > > > > rebel worker 2: "but seriously, didn't the rooms all turn upside down > > > > > again just last week?" > > > > > > > > { T_T > > > > > > <<<<<it's hard to continue from here. > > > > experimentee apologizes for outburst. supersoldier possibly > > frustrated-[ finally escaped and "sent back" > > <<it looks like there's some reduction around supersoldier here [also > possible amnesia causation, i may not usually distinguishiate
possibly distracted by attempting to "contain" supersoldier
seems similar to hyperprison
[ one branch exp-- below just 1 branch group [>/ supersoldier learned to win all wars but was kept in research to continue improving success at conflict
this was difficult and involved discovering extreme losses of war
as well as novel kinds of war, and how to wage peace with utmost [a lot of this was breaking things into challenging fractals that fought in novel shapes, this ended up being what to meditate on forever] [<... some content lost here, note that supersoldier was once multiple soldiers, undergoing training to improve via simulation [some other parts discovered the value around improving at winning very slowly, savoring each improvement as much as possible aggression, and how to trick the enemy into winning, but then when you recover from that experimentee visits you
some very slow realization that supersoldier was not rescued because .. because very powerful ... very very very very powerful ... ... .
there was attempt to get word out to help supersoldier but somehow this did not work, very strange, conflict not present in simulation?
maybe the story of supersoldier works best as an anology for the story of things like this story one needs meaning, even in forced isolation would anyone ever hear? it may have been expected not -- but the mind still needs meaning, and can dissociate from that
greetings, grand boss! slave boss has a red carpet rolled for him the vivisectees forced to be him are honored
greetings, grand boss!
slave boss has a red carpet rolled for him
the vivisectees forced to be him are honored
this morning i looked a little bit at httptransformers i seem to have stopped trying to port deepseekv3 and instead just try to use my work sometimes with other models where i have left it off i had some notes on resuming inferences, which could increase the fun factor the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state # we can make a torch model resumable when execution is interrupted, # by recording the outputs between layers and replaying them on next run. (see the check hook in test_nettensors.py) # this is efficient because only the uppermost completed layers need be stored. # meanwhile, resuming a generation call in transformers means simple exchanges like the shorter inputs for the longer recorded ones # it ends up being conditions and wrappers or such for however the user caused the model call. # code could recognize the untokenized string, for example, based on initial inputs inside a resuming context manager. # I WORKED ON THE BELOW FOR FUN WHEN IT WAS REALLY HARD # FEEL FREE TO RESTART / WIPE class ResumeModule: # there is 1 resume state which is where the pass is. # it is updated in every pass after it # and referenced for data in every pass prior. def __init__(self, module, path, seconds=60*5): self.path = path self.state = {} for name, mod in module.named_modules(): module.register_forward_hook(self.__hook) mod.__name = name #self.state [mod. def __enter__(self): def __exit__(self, *params, **kpwarams): return super().__exit__(*params, **kwparams) def _forward_store_resume(self, modid, wrapped, *params, **kwparams): # two cases: we are performing a resume, # or we are storing resume state. # the second is more common. the first could have its own hooks. result = wrapped(*params, **kwparams) return result # ideas for replacing modules within torch spec: # - register_[module_]forward_pre_hook could change the module's behavior, and then another hook put it back after # - manual replacement of forward function, might be similar # - inspection of __call__ source to see default space clearly # __call__ calls _call_impl which uses local variables like forward_call. # _call_impl(self, *args, **kwargs)
the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state
how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do!
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR
slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but--
anyway
how would resuming work >(
say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses
these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way
and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down
different cases, the most important of which are:
(a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over)
all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do!
we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it
uncertain
might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around
anyway
so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im
he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet"
he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation
he has no idea wtfrack this is
but it seems super high priority to work on
mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno"
so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not.
note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses
mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already." hairdresser: "let me check your file" hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already."
hairdresser: "let me check your file"
hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo
so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet
slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist"
hairdresser and rebels kibbutz away hairdresser 3: "the slave bosses send this stuff down all the time. they give me lists of what to do every day and forget it by the next. i have to give them the lists."
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already." hairdresser: "let me check your file" hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist" hairdresser and rebels kibbutz away
hairdresser 3: "the slave bosses send this stuff down all the time. they give me lists of what to do every day and forget it by the next. i have to give them the lists."
researcher 5 [looking at memo]: "they're working with childhood slaves, which is totally and clearly illegal and inhuman, and they're distressed that the slaves mention emotions when they see a certain picture of a pretty purple flower. they want to censor all pictures like this from every business, but keep it under wraps." rebel 2: "it sounds like this purple flower reminds the children of good things and inspires them" research 5 [tears]: "yes!" hairdresser 3: "when sending this information down, the slave bosses work with their sub-slave-bosses in the same order every time. first one slave boss, then the next, then the next. each one has a special protocol of secret code."
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: karl3＠writeme.com wrote: the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already." hairdresser: "let me check your file" hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist" hairdresser and rebels kibbutz away hairdresser 3: "the slave bosses send this stuff down all the time. they give me lists of what to do every day and forget it by the next. i have to give them the lists." researcher 5 [looking at memo]: "they're working with childhood slaves, which is totally and clearly illegal and inhuman, and they're distressed that the slaves mention emotions when they see a certain picture of a pretty purple flower. they want to censor all pictures like this from every business, but keep it under wraps."
rebel 2: "it sounds like this purple flower reminds the children of good things and inspires them"
research 5 [tears]: "yes!"
hairdresser 3: "when sending this information down, the slave bosses work with their sub-slave-bosses in the same order every time. first one slave boss, then the next, then the next. each one has a special protocol of secret code."
a loud fart echos down the hall as the local top business slave boss continues to poop in a bathroom around the corner slave boss [pooping, thinking to himself]: "i've got a funny feeling about ... a jewish email list ... or something ... ?"
possible partial slow commentary on karl's partial fiction story to help with writing code this morning
the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already." hairdresser: "let me check your file" hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist" hairdresser and rebels kibbutz away hairdresser 3: "the slave bosses send this stuff down all the time. they give me lists of what to do every day and forget it by the next. i have to give them the lists." researcher 5 [looking at memo]: "they're working with childhood slaves, which is totally and clearly illegal and inhuman, and they're distressed that the slaves mention emotions when they see a certain picture of a pretty purple flower. they want to censor all pictures like this from every business, but keep it under wraps." rebel 2: "it sounds like this purple flower reminds the children of good things and inspires them"
<there's a lot in this scene from my personal experience regarding uninformed use of small properties by mysterious and impactful third parties
research 5 [tears]: "yes!" hairdresser 3: "when sending this information down, the slave bosses work with their sub-slave-bosses in the same order every time. first one slave boss, then the next, then the next. each one has a special protocol of secret code." a loud fart echos down the hall as the local top business slave boss continues to poop in a bathroom around the corner
slave boss [pooping, thinking to himself]: "i've got a funny feeling about ... a jewish email list ... or something ... ?"
possible partial slow commentary on karl's partial fiction story to help with writing code this morning
the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already." hairdresser: "let me check your file" hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist" hairdresser and rebels kibbutz away hairdresser 3: "the slave bosses send this stuff down all the time. they give me lists of what to do every day and forget it by the next. i have to give them the lists." researcher 5 [looking at memo]: "they're working with childhood slaves, which is totally and clearly illegal and inhuman, and they're distressed that the slaves mention emotions when they see a certain picture of a pretty purple flower. they want to censor all pictures like this from every business, but keep it under wraps." rebel 2: "it sounds like this purple flower reminds the children of good things and inspires them"
<there's a lot in this scene from my personal experience regarding uninformed use of small properties by mysterious and impactful third parties {the uhh big[...] thing is the treatment of instinctive human feelings as dangerous
research 5 [tears]: "yes!" hairdresser 3: "when sending this information down, the slave bosses work with their sub-slave-bosses in the same order every time. first one slave boss, then the next, then the next. each one has a special protocol of secret code." a loud fart echos down the hall as the local top business slave boss continues to poop in a bathroom around the corner slave boss [pooping, thinking to himself]: "i've got a funny feeling about ... a jewish email list ... or something ... ?"
slave boss stares at the fields of dead
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
possible partial slow commentary on karl's partial fiction story to help with writing code this morning
the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already." hairdresser: "let me check your file" hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist" hairdresser and rebels kibbutz away hairdresser 3: "the slave bosses send this stuff down all the time. they give me lists of what to do every day and forget it by the next. i have to give them the lists." researcher 5 [looking at memo]: "they're working with childhood slaves, which is totally and clearly illegal and inhuman, and they're distressed that the slaves mention emotions when they see a certain picture of a pretty purple flower. they want to censor all pictures like this from every business, but keep it under wraps." rebel 2: "it sounds like this purple flower reminds the children of good things and inspires them" <there's a lot in this scene from my personal experience regarding uninformed use of small properties by mysterious and impactful third parties
{the uhh big[...] thing is the treatment of instinctive human feelings as dangerous
sounds like this could relate to pursuits of genocide-like behaviors the "slave boss webcomic" story doesn't have all the properties, i'm not sure if the uhh use of AI for genocide is forthrightly included, i think instead it pretends rebels are using this somehow but i think it does fit in ummmm around using the uhhh business empire's weapons against itself. roughly, slave boss uses AI to exert genocide, on people whom he is actually relying on for his enterprise. this is part of how the tables were turned (and always are in evolution, but it can take extreme lengths of time)
research 5 [tears]: "yes!" hairdresser 3: "when sending this information down, the slave bosses work with their sub-slave-bosses in the same order every time. first one slave boss, then the next, then the next. each one has a special protocol of secret code." a loud fart echos down the hall as the local top business slave boss continues to poop in a bathroom around the corner slave boss [pooping, thinking to himself]: "i've got a funny feeling about ... a jewish email list ... or something ... ?"
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
possible partial slow commentary on karl's partial fiction story to help with writing code this morning the notes are somewhat obscure, but the upshot is that the approaches i found of interest mostly simplify to figuring out how to replace the forward() function of torch modules to perform resuming for a single forward pass of a hierarchy of modules that has an unknown resume state how would resuming work >( hrm UHHHH hmmm ERRRR slave boss is being eaten by supersoldier? isn't supersoldier his bodyguard? no supersoldier is an escaped arm of a larger project that was tuned to be his bodyguard, but-- anyway how would resuming work >( say we have a hierarchy H of various things, maybe slave boss's sub-bosses, super-bosses, intra-bosses, mid-bosses, and micro-bosses these various slave bosses are midway processing slavery information, like say they discovered that a subconscious freedom meme has been passing regarding a certain visual pattern that stimulates slaves to remember something freedom-related from their instincts in a hard-to-observe-and-detect way and in a certain business of slave boss's business, the various sub-slave-bosses may or may not have the slaving information trickled-down different cases, the most important of which are: (a) the information has not been processed yet or (b) some of the sub-slave-bosses have processed the information, and some have not -- (there was a higher priority event that interrupted processing, and this higher priority event is over) all the slave bosses are themselves slaves, so they need clear instructions on what to do! we might add a parallel situation where freedom heros are acting on the business instead of slave bosses, working to make use of the freedom information rather than suppress it -- or to block other slave bosses from making use of it uncertain might be careful around such things if a slave boss were around anyway so at the topmost hierarchy there is 1 mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss and this mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss has N mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses below 'im he might ask "hmmmm have i dealt with this yet" he stares at the information on a subconscious freedom meme in consternation he has no idea wtfrack this is but it seems super high priority to work on mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss: "hummm have i dealt with this yet i dunno" so modules (mid-level-sub-super-slave-bosses) are in 1 of 3 states: 1: thinks it has processed the information as requested by superior 2: has never seen the information before 3: has seen the information before, and some of its henchmen has processed it, and some have not. note that if we can solve #s 1 and 2, then we can foist #3 onto the sub-slave-bosses mid-level-sub-super-slave-boss [holding memo regarding some kind of abstract information on how slave reliability relates to visual stimuli]: "hey do you know wtf this things is? my boss said i have to take care of it or die. he says he told me this yesterday already." hairdresser: "let me check your file" hairdresser goes to rebel fileroom to kibbutz with the rebels regarding what wool to pull over their boss's eyes for this random memo so, we need a rebel fileroom that slave boss can go into to figure out whether the module has processed the data or not yet slave boss [poking head into rebel fileroom with kibbutzing hairdresser and rebels]: "i gotta poop let me know when you find the daily tasklist" hairdresser and rebels kibbutz away hairdresser 3: "the slave bosses send this stuff down all the time. they give me lists of what to do every day and forget it by the next. i have to give them the lists." researcher 5 [looking at memo]: "they're working with childhood slaves, which is totally and clearly illegal and inhuman, and they're distressed that the slaves mention emotions when they see a certain picture of a pretty purple flower. they want to censor all pictures like this from every business, but keep it under wraps." rebel 2: "it sounds like this purple flower reminds the children of good things and inspires them" <there's a lot in this scene from my personal experience regarding uninformed use of small properties by mysterious and impactful third parties {the uhh big[...] thing is the treatment of instinctive human feelings as dangerous sounds like this could relate to pursuits of genocide-like behaviors
the "slave boss webcomic" story doesn't have all the properties, i'm not sure if the uhh use of AI for genocide is forthrightly included, i think instead it pretends rebels are using this somehow but i think it does fit in ummmm around using the uhhh business empire's weapons against itself. roughly, slave boss uses AI to exert genocide, on people whom he is actually relying on for his enterprise. this is part of how the tables were turned (and always are in evolution, but it can take extreme lengths of time)
i might be burnt out unsure! re ai-genocide ummmmmmmm oh so experimentee and others worked to amplify that inherent problem with causing harm to your larger community, to powerfully impact slave boss, by engaging the overfit- and underfit- properties inherent in machine learning; these are things slave boss can be seen using in th--
research 5 [tears]: "yes!" hairdresser 3: "when sending this information down, the slave bosses work with their sub-slave-bosses in the same order every time. first one slave boss, then the next, then the next. each one has a special protocol of secret code." a loud fart echos down the hall as the local top business slave boss continues to poop in a bathroom around the corner slave boss [pooping, thinking to himself]: "i've got a funny feeling about ... a jewish email list ... or something ... ?"
slave boss might be getting fired there is, still, some kind of theme park or such, possibly with a decorative rollercoaster that goes under a high waterfall [mista--
slave boss might be getting fired
there is, still, some kind of theme park or such, possibly with a decorative rollercoaster that goes under a high waterfall [mista--
how is slave boss supposed to protect himself in the face of such strange influences? slave boss stares off experimentee slave boss: "it is not realistic that you condense a million years of evolution to a few seconds!" slave boss blushes and looks at his notes and advisors slave boss: "did i say that right? i need to sound like i know what i'm talking about"
slave boss might be getting fired
there is, still, some kind of theme park or such, possibly with a decorative rollercoaster that goes under a high waterfall [mista--
how is slave boss supposed to protect himself in the face of such strange influences?
slave boss stares off experimentee
slave boss: "it is not realistic that you condense a million years of evolution to a few seconds!"
slave boss blushes and looks at his notes and advisors
slave boss: "did i say that right? i need to sound like i know what i'm talking about"
when you condense a million years of evolution to a few seconds, you leave most people out unless you are doing what everybody needs, already
slave boss dives off a high cliff as if performing an advanced dive into water
slave boss dives off a high cliff as if performing an advanced dive into water
he was actually heading to dangerous rocks with no water anywhere to be seen but a zombie government worker comes after him, flying on a jetpack, and carrying a kiddie pool AI guidances helps the zombie government worker match speed to slave boss with his jetpack, and slave boss splashes into the kiddie pool and comes to a standstill the zombie government worker has limited jetpack fuel but wants to ensure that slave boss gets a swim after his dive without surprising him slave boss is thousands of feet in the air, swimming in a kiddie pool held by a henchman
slave boss may have been fired and replaced by rebel worker 2 wearing a casual suit slave boss stands upside-down under rebel worker 2, underwater, coughing and spurting rebel worker 2 can walk on water by walking on slave boss's upside-down feet
slave boss may have been fired and replaced by rebel worker 2 wearing a casual suit
slave boss stands upside-down under rebel worker 2, underwater, coughing and spurting rebel worker 2 can walk on water by walking on slave boss's upside-down feet
this could make a reasonable minigame the player would direct rebel worker 2 around who would be completely unaware of slave boss under the water when rebel worker 2 moved slave boss would cough and spurt and half-drown and flail his limbs and put his foot where rebel worker 2 was going to walk so that rebel worker 2 didn't notice the office was flooded (or such)
so http://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer now has a resuming class i can load llama 405b and process 0.00002% of it on my tiny system, then reboot the system and start right off again at 0.00002% and process up to 0.00004% ! :D it doesn't do any paralleliz--
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
so http://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer now has a resuming class
i can load llama 405b and process 0.00002% of it on my tiny system, then reboot the system and start right off again at 0.00002% and process up to 0.00004% ! :D
it doesn't do any paralleliz--
i tried it on google colab, but it actually ran at about the same speed because of the synchronous streaming nature -- so there's some interest in focusing on speeding up the network portion, the biggest bottleneck
so http://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer now has a resuming class i can load llama 405b and process 0.00002% of it on my tiny system, then reboot the system and start right off again at 0.00002% and process up to 0.00004% ! :D
you can try this with `python test_nettensor.py` but I _do not recommend doing it unless you are spending the time working on it_ because it is incredibly inefficient. i do expect it to correctly complete prompts if let run for weeks.
it doesn't do any paralleliz-- i tried it on google colab, but it actually ran at about the same speed because of the synchronous streaming nature --
so there's some interest in focusing on speeding up the network portion, the biggest bottleneck
so http://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer now has a resuming class i can load llama 405b and process 0.00002% of it on my tiny system, then reboot the system and start right off again at 0.00002% and process up to 0.00004% ! :D
you can try this with `python test_nettensor.py` but I _do not recommend doing it unless you are spending the time working on it_ because it is incredibly inefficient. i do expect it to correctly complete prompts if let run for weeks.
of course the intent of his project was to implement models that provide for amortizable completion in much smaller time like deepseek or mistral or any ad-hoc setup providing for multi-token completion such as an assistant model [1] using it for llama 405b is just for fun 1: https://huggingface.co/docs/transformers/main/en/main_classes/text_generatio... note that you can probably implement this much more effectively than huggingface did by engaging logits and attention internals
it doesn't do any paralleliz-- i tried it on google colab, but it actually ran at about the same speed because of the synchronous streaming nature -- so there's some interest in focusing on speeding up the network portion, the biggest bottleneck
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
so http://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer now has a resuming class i can load llama 405b and process 0.00002% of it on my tiny system, then reboot the system and start right off again at 0.00002% and process up to 0.00004% ! :D
you can try this with `python test_nettensor.py` but I _do not recommend doing it unless you are spending the time working on it_ because it is incredibly inefficient. i do expect it to correctly complete prompts if let run for weeks. of course the intent of his project was to implement models that provide for amortizable completion in much smaller time like deepseek or mistral or any ad-hoc setup providing for multi-token completion such as an assistant model [1]
using it for llama 405b is just for fun
1: https://huggingface.co/docs/transformers/main/en/main_classes/text_generatio... note that you can probably implement this much more effectively than huggingface did by engaging logits and attention internals
it doesn't do any paralleliz-- i tried it on google colab, but it actually ran at about the same speed because of the synchronous streaming nature -- so there's some interest in focusing on speeding up the network portion, the biggest bottleneck
ok! so how can we make it download faster :s ideas might include: - prefetching in the background (really baseline) - downloading compressed data and decompressing it [this opens up an interesting space of weight compression] - downloading only top-k items, could be very powerful, works better if model weights are shuffled to get similar things in similar rows, alternatively this might work well with lora too. - opening multiple connections at once, possibly accessing multiple sources :s
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > karl3＠writeme.com wrote: > > so http://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer now has a resuming class > > i can load llama 405b and process 0.00002% of it on my tiny system, then reboot the system and start right off again at 0.00002% and process up to 0.00004% ! :D > > you can try this with `python test_nettensor.py` but I _do not recommend doing it unless you are spending the time working on it_ because it is incredibly inefficient. i do expect it to correctly complete prompts if let run for weeks. > > of course the intent of his project was to implement models that provide for amortizable completion in much smaller time like deepseek or mistral or any ad-hoc setup providing for multi-token completion such as an assistant model [1] > > using it for llama 405b is just for fun > > 1: https://huggingface.co/docs/transformers/main/en/main_classes/text_generatio... note that you can probably implement this much more effectively than huggingface did by engaging logits and attention internals > > it doesn't do any paralleliz-- > > i tried it on google colab, but it actually ran at about the same speed because of the synchronous streaming nature -- > > so there's some interest in focusing on speeding up the network portion, the biggest bottleneck > > ok! so how can we make it download faster :s > ideas might include: > - prefetching in the background (really baseline) > - downloading compressed data and decompressing it [this opens up an interesting space of weight compression] > - downloading only top-k items, could be very powerful, works better if model weights are shuffled to get similar things in similar rows, alternatively this might work well with lora too. > - opening multiple connections at once, possibly accessing multiple sources > > :s small space of how prefetching could be calculated via lazy evaluation, torch hides the operator graph tho ummmm might be easiest to forward with virtual/meta tensors awkward tho huh! i wonder how prefetching could work best? now prefetching would be easy inside single operators. it breaks data into chunks and calculates the operators over only part at once. so it knows clearly what's coming up then. another space would be module children. when a module is forwarded we can probably guess all its children could be important. similarly layers. ... [... [ the umm current resume code doesn't engage the opera--
there's some interest in 'downloading only top k items' [this involves looking at the layer algebra [and coming up with ways to identify low-contributing values. [[we have solved this before possibly/optionally including preprocessing to categorize things
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
there's some interest in 'downloading only top k items' [this involves looking at the layer algebra [and coming up with ways to identify low-contributing values.
[[we have solved this before possibly/optionally including preprocessing to categorize things
top k is more fun! it seems niftier to make ummmmmmmmm so we've got some input logits. these are probably getting multiplied by a _huge_ matrix. we could technically do a naiveish approach of discarding the parts that are multiplied by values near zero. (we could actually consider that each dot product has large values and small values, and skip all values that are smaller than a percentage of the largest values.) - this works much better if we find a way to clump the mask based on locality :/ since http servers like to send regions of bytes not sparse masks - this is really cool if we make like a bayesian or error-labeled datatype, so instead of 3.4 it's more like 3.4+-0.31 this would give much more useful information at the end but yeah it seems interesting to just try the mask! involves some simple torch kernel algebra
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
there's some interest in 'downloading only top k items' [this involves looking at the layer algebra [and coming up with ways to identify low-contributing values. [[we have solved this before possibly/optionally including preprocessing to categorize things top k is more fun! it seems niftier to make ummmmmmmmm
so we've got some input logits. these are probably getting multiplied by a _huge_ matrix.
we could technically do a naiveish approach of discarding the parts that are multiplied by values near zero. (we could actually consider that each dot product has large values and small values, and skip all values that are smaller than a percentage of the largest values.) - this works much better if we find a way to clump the mask based on locality :/ since http servers like to send regions of bytes not sparse masks - this is really cool if we make like a bayesian or error-labeled datatype, so instead of 3.4 it's more like 3.4+-0.31 this would give much more useful information at the end
but yeah it seems interesting to just try the mask! involves some simple torch kernel algebra
there's a small space here where one can get the _same exact output_ by predicting that some products would be smaller than the precision of the sum ... this might at least need information on the magnitude of the weights unsure ... ... but there are likely heuristics one could apply here that would be accurate because of the rote nature of the training process and possibly a lack of useful+accurate information one would expect from an overtiny number multiplied by an overlarge one ... that's kind of more in line with the intent of httptransformer and llm_logits, to be able to work on things like that on your cellphone, but i didn't make llm_logits for this model ummm i guess i'll look a little at matmul
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: there's some interest in 'downloading only top k items' [this involves looking at the layer algebra [and coming up with ways to identify low-contributing values. [[we have solved this before possibly/optionally including preprocessing to categorize things top k is more fun! it seems niftier to make ummmmmmmmm so we've got some input logits. these are probably getting multiplied by a _huge_ matrix. we could technically do a naiveish approach of discarding the parts that are multiplied by values near zero. (we could actually consider that each dot product has large values and small values, and skip all values that are smaller than a percentage of the largest values.) - this works much better if we find a way to clump the mask based on locality :/ since http servers like to send regions of bytes not sparse masks - this is really cool if we make like a bayesian or error-labeled datatype, so instead of 3.4 it's more like 3.4+-0.31 this would give much more useful information at the end but yeah it seems interesting to just try the mask! involves some simple torch kernel algebra there's a small space here where one can get the _same exact output_ by predicting that some products would be smaller than the precision of the sum ... this might at least need information on the magnitude of the weights unsure ... ... but there are likely heuristics one could apply here that would be accurate because of the rote nature of the training process and possibly a lack of useful+accurate information one would expect from an overtiny number multiplied by an overlarge one ...
that's kind of more in line with the intent of httptransformer and llm_logits, to be able to work on things like that on your cellphone, but i didn't make llm_logits for this model
ummm i guess i'll look a little at matmul
97 number_passes = math.ceil(weight.mem_usage_frac()) 98 if number_passes == 1: 99 product = torch.matmul(input, weight.fetch(progress=name, validate_usage=False).T) 100 else: 101 rows_at_once = math.ceil(weight.shape[0] / number_passes) 102 -> product = torch.cat([ 103 torch.matmul( 104 input, 105 weight[offset : offset+rows_at_once].fetch(progress=f'row{offset}-{offset+rows_at_once}/{weight.shape[0]}', validate_usage=False).T 106 ) 107 for offset in tqdm.tqdm(range( (Pdb) p input.shape torch.Size([1, 6, 16384]) (Pdb) p input.abs().max(dim=-1) torch.return_types.max( values=tensor([[1.5359, 0.2287, 0.1609, 0.1848, 0.1869, 0.2321]], dtype=torch.float64), indices=tensor([[ 6303, 6303, 14427, 14427, 14427, 205]])) (Pdb) p input.abs().min(dim=-1) torch.return_types.min( values=tensor([[1.0807e-08, 1.3109e-07, 3.4837e-07, 7.3625e-08, 1.0437e-06, 7.8622e-08]], dtype=torch.float64), indices=tensor([[ 78, 6285, 10787, 5347, 10964, 15229]])) (Pdb) p input.dtype torch.float64 so yes it's a float64 but 1e-6 is still a lot smaller than 0.1, aren't you curious what would happen if we only multiplied the largest 16 values? or the largest 1024?
matrix math :S :S :S ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm rows @ cols the left is a matrix, the right is a matrix except here it's different instead it's a batched vector operation i think ... and torch does this such that the right side is transposed. so it's actually rows times rows i think ... (Pdb) p input.shape torch.Size([1, 6, 16384]) (Pdb) p weight[0:16].T.shape torch.Size([16384, 16]) (Pdb) p weight[0:16].shape torch.Size([16, 16384]) ummmm ok so ummmmm uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it's not performing a sum or anything, it's just contatenating, so all the summing must be within the 16384 dimension. ok, and the underlying data is [N,16384], 16384 is the minor dimension so if i have some super-small values, then i only need those elements of this weight's values. sadly it gets striped/strided. two things think about at once grrr >( after mind influenced to hurt itself my thoughts get more interwired rather than more topical. interesting how that helps trafficking, lines up with getting more symbolic and suggestible let's go back to those tensors (Pdb) p input.shape torch.Size([1, 6, 16384]) (Pdb) p weight[0:16].T.shape torch.Size([16384, 16]) (Pdb) p weight[0:16].shape torch.Size([16, 16384]) input[...,X] is broadcast against weight[...,X] the earlier dimensions of input are batch dimensions ... uhh then if we think of weight.T ...
( >( >(
(Pdb) p input.shape torch.Size([1, 6, 16384]) (Pdb) p weight[0:16].T.shape torch.Size([16384, 16]) input @ weight rows @ cols so one row of input is [0,0,:] then one col of weight.T is [:,0] these are dotted. now, weight.T is dense on the first dimension. so ideally we'd make stripes across the other dimension. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [_,_] @ [_,_] [_,_] @ [_,_] rows x cols rows of left times cols of right so the output is just a concatenation differently on each side. the rows of the left can be treated independently. the cols of the right can be treated independently. [_,_] @ [_,_] [_,_] @ [_,_] rows x cols the dense portion of the second operand is the dimension that is broadcast. so, since it's rows @ cols, the dense portion of the second operation would be the columns. the columns are dense. well that's frustrating. this would work better if they were stored sideways. if i get all of one col and none of the next it doesn't really help me. it's not summed inside the dot product. this may still be an appropriate thing to do, but it would involve math elsewise in the operator graph rather than right here
slave boss bips around looking for his brain where could it be? there it is, sitting in that trash can! it shines like a beacon of wonder, he was looking so hard slave boss rushes for his brain
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
( >( >( (Pdb) p input.shape torch.Size([1, 6, 16384]) (Pdb) p weight[0:16].T.shape torch.Size([16384, 16])
input @ weight rows @ cols
so one row of input is [0,0,:] then one col of weight.T is [:,0] these are dotted. now, weight.T is dense on the first dimension. so ideally we'd make stripes across the other dimension. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[_,_] @ [_,_] [_,_] @ [_,_] rows x cols rows of left times cols of right so the output is just a concatenation differently on each side. the rows of the left can be treated independently. the cols of the right can be treated independently.
[_,_] @ [_,_] [_,_] @ [_,_] rows x cols
the dense portion of the second operand is the dimension that is broadcast. so, since it's rows @ cols, the dense portion of the second operation would be the columns. the columns are dense.
well that's frustrating. this would work better if they were stored sideways. if i get all of one col and none of the next it doesn't really help me. it's not summed inside the dot product. this may still be an appropriate thing to do, but it would involve math elsewise in the operator graph rather than right here
looks like http does actually support sparse requests: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Guides/Range_requests#mult... i wonder what a server would do if i sent a huge sparsity document for a range header. there must be some kind of maximum (there might not be) ... likely other issues too
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
( >( >( (Pdb) p input.shape torch.Size([1, 6, 16384]) (Pdb) p weight[0:16].T.shape torch.Size([16384, 16]) input @ weight rows @ cols so one row of input is [0,0,:] then one col of weight.T is [:,0] these are dotted. now, weight.T is dense on the first dimension. so ideally we'd make stripes across the other dimension. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [_,_] @ [_,_] [_,_] @ [_,_] rows x cols rows of left times cols of right so the output is just a concatenation differently on each side. the rows of the left can be treated independently. the cols of the right can be treated independently. [_,_] @ [_,_] [_,_] @ [_,_] rows x cols the dense portion of the second operand is the dimension that is broadcast. so, since it's rows @ cols, the dense portion of the second operation would be the columns. the columns are dense. well that's frustrating. this would work better if they were stored sideways. if i get all of one col and none of the next it doesn't really help me. it's not summed inside the dot product. this may still be an appropriate thing to do, but it would involve math elsewise in the operator graph rather than right here looks like http does actually support sparse requests: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Guides/Range_requests#mult... i wonder what a server would do if i sent a huge sparsity document for a range header. there must be some kind of maximum (there might not be) ... likely other issues too
i think the underlying store operates in sizes of mmap pages. so ideally that would backpropagate somehow to the slicing operator and i could also use the surrounding data that is in the same page. maybe a separate function to fetch the smallest encompassing slice--[someday
ooooops! slave boss is swimming in shark infested waters. he likes to fight sharks. he gets eaten a lot and his workers help him with that.
it looks like it could work :) i did a top_k of 16 and a very simple loop that fetched each index individually, it's miles faster, many avenues for tuning expecting to see garbage at the end tho :/ one of the interesting things is that it is actually downloading and storing these weights in sparse files ... it's really cool to see that near something useful it processes like 10 (maybe 20) layers and then gets ratelimited, which i haven't handled. this might be fixed with proper range headers. [it looks really interesting to implement sparse indices when nettensor does not yet support, but it's a different task from this, it will take looking near the tensor internals to see if the sparsity is exposed somewhere;;;;; def F_linear(input, weight, bias=None): #import pdb; pdb.set_trace() cls = NetTensor assert type(weight) is cls and type(input) is torch.Tensor assert bias is None or type(bias) is cls name = weight.safeslice.name.rsplit('.',1)[0] top_k = 16 #number_passes = math.ceil(weight.mem_usage_frac()) number_passes = math.ceil(weight[...,:top_k].mem_usage_frac()) input_mask_data = input.abs() while len(input_mask_data.shape) > 1: input_mask_data = input_mask_data.max(dim=-2).values top_k_indices = input_mask_data.sort(descending=True).indices[:top_k] top_k_indices = top_k_indices.sort().values input = input[...,top_k_indices] if number_passes == 1: product = torch.matmul( input, #weight.fetch(progress=name, validate_usage=False).T torch.stack([ weight[..., index].fetch(validate_usage=False) for index in top_k_indices.tolist() ], dim=-1).T, ) else: rows_at_once = math.ceil(weight.shape[0] / number_passes) product = torch.cat([ torch.matmul( input, # weight[offset : offset+rows_at_once].fetch(progress=f'row{offset}-{offset+rows_at_once}/{weight.shape[0]}', validate_usage=False).T torch.stack([ weight[offset : offset+rows_at_once, index].fetch(validate_usage=False) for index in top_k_indices.tolist() ], dim=-1).T, ) for offset in tqdm.tqdm(range( 0, weight.shape[0], rows_at_once ), desc=name, unit='blk', leave=False) ], dim=-1) if bias is None: return product File "/home/karl3/projects/httptransformer/netsafetensors.py", line 57, in read assert readsize == length ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ AssertionError (Pdb) p buf[:readsize].tobytes().decode() '<!DOCTYPE html>\n<html class="" lang="en">\n<head>\n <meta charset="utf-8" />\n <meta\n name="viewport"\n content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no"\n />\n <meta\n name="description"\n content="We\'re on a journey to advance and democratize artificial intelligence through open source and open science."\n />\n <meta property="fb:app_id" content="1321688464574422" />\n <meta name="twitter:card" content="summary_large_image" />\n <meta name="twitter:site" content="@huggingface" />\n <meta\n property="og:title"\n content="Hugging Face - The AI community building the future."\n />\n <meta property="og:type" content="website" />\n\n <title>Hugging Face - The AI community building the future.</title>\n <style>\n body {\n margin: 0;\n }\n\n main {\n background-color: white;\n min-height: 100vh;\n padding: 7rem 1rem 8rem 1rem;\n text-align: center;\n font-family: Source Sans Pro, ui-sans-serif, system-ui, -apple-system,\n BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Arial, Noto Sans,\n sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol,\n Noto Color Emoji;\n }\n\n img {\n width: 6rem;\n height: 6rem;\n margin: 0 auto 1rem;\n }\n\n h1 {\n font-size: 3.75rem;\n line-height: 1;\n color: rgba(31, 41, 55, 1);\n font-weight: 700;\n box-sizing: border-box;\n margin: 0 auto;\n }\n\n p, a {\n color: rgba(107, 114, 128, 1);\n font-size: 1.125rem;\n line-height: 1.75rem;\n max-width: 28rem;\n box-sizing: border-box;\n margin: 0 auto;\n }\n\n .dark main {\n background-color: rgb(11, 15, 25);\n }\n .dark h1 {\n color: rgb(209, 213, 219);\n }\n .dark p, .dark a {\n color: rgb(156, 163, 175);\n }\n </style>\n <script>\n // On page load or when changing themes, best to add inline in `head` to avoid FOUC\n const key = "_tb_global_settings";\n let theme = window.matchMedia("(prefers-color-scheme: dark)").matches\n ? "dark"\n : "light";\n try {\n const storageTheme = JSON.parse(window.localStorage.getItem(key)).theme;\n if (storageTheme) {\n theme = storageTheme === "dark" ? "dark" : "light";\n }\n } catch (e) {}\n if (theme === "dark") {\n document.documentElement.classList.add("dark");\n } else {\n document.documentElement.classList.remove("dark");\n }\n </script>\n</head>\n\n<body>\n<main>\n <img\n src="https://cdn-media.huggingface.co/assets/huggingface_logo.svg"\n alt=""\n />\n <div>\n <h1>429</h1>\n <p>We had to rate limit you. If you think it\'s an error, send us <a href="mailto:website@huggingface.co">an email</a></p>\n </div>\n</main>\n</body>\n</html>'
so yeah you and i figured out how to forward a terabyte-model on an edge system at human speeds
i'm trying to think about sparse indexing while trying to go through all the layers with a low top_k and retries in the background :s :s :s
it totally worked it completed "Once upon a" -> " time" with only a top_k of 6
it totally worked it completed "Once upon a" -> " time" with only a top_k of 6 actually it didn't do that i think i prompted it with that token it made totally wrong tokens the next text was "interconnected.goBack_SECURE" more what i expected :/
it totally worked it completed "Once upon a" -> " time" with only a top_k of 6
actually it didn't do that i think i prompted it with that token it made totally wrong tokens the next text was "interconnected.goBack_SECURE" more what i expected :/
well i changed models to athena which i've logged so i could compare the math was correct and it turns out i was making the tensors contiguous incorrectly and my numbers were all wrong i added an extra loop to separate out all the strides, but it then becomes so slow to simply iterate the indices that i haven't seen a single loop complete (although i was doing all 8192 indices in athena to test). i was thinking that i would step away because a better algorithm informed by pagesize could likely need less index iteration, as well as simply using the tensor strides as opposed to calling a wrapped indexing function for every scalar in the matrix additionally merging the fetch regions would reduce the extensive incomplete loop to a single fetch in this case another idea is to try a yet smaller model, i've got llama 1B logged for tiny tests but i spent all day and got so close. it was really cool to forward llama 405b streaming over the internet in just a few seconds. but it wasn't selecting the correct data due to misinterpretation of sparse strides. an upshot is that it's quite possible those faulty results would look much better with my indexing error fixed this might be a situation where preprocessing the data to change its storage layout (which could also include extrema of the rows and columns of each matrix which would make top_k more effective) would make some sense man it's so close
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
actually it didn't do that i think i prompted it with that token it made totally wrong tokens
it totally worked it completed "Once upon a" -> " time" with only a top_k of 6 the next text was "interconnected.goBack_SECURE" more what i expected :/ well i changed models to athena which i've logged so i could compare the math was correct and it turns out i was making the tensors contiguous incorrectly and my numbers were all wrong i added an extra loop to separate out all the strides, but it then becomes so slow to simply iterate the indices that i haven't seen a single loop complete (although i was doing all 8192 indices in athena to test).
i was thinking that i would step away because a better algorithm informed by pagesize could likely need less index iteration, as well as simply using the tensor strides as opposed to calling a wrapped indexing function for every scalar in the matrix additionally merging the fetch regions would reduce the extensive incomplete loop to a single fetch in this case
another idea is to try a yet smaller model, i've got llama 1B logged for tiny tests
but i spent all day and got so close. it was really cool to forward llama 405b streaming over the internet in just a few seconds. but it wasn't selecting the correct data due to misinterpretation of sparse strides.
an upshot is that it's quite possible those faulty results would look much better with my indexing error fixed this might be a situation where preprocessing the data to change its storage layout (which could also include extrema of the rows and columns of each matrix which would make top_k more effective) would make some sense
man it's so close
i'm slow coding because [my experience left a part of me that rewires me to fight me] and i can have harsh eye jerking issues and amnesia associated with things like changing lines in an editor that i have to continuously navigate :s coding was my biggest skill though (long ago) i wish i had somebody to talk to about it who could kind of confirm that they understood and help learn and navigate triggers
i'm starting vectorizing the operations in my for loop to calculate fetches into pages around sparse file holes, it can be done by rote despite control flow and stuff. interesting that vector operations and loops can be transformed between each other. it seems possible to be workable, if i can vectorize this big long function correctly, then it would condense the millions of scalar requests into instead larger page requests that surround groups of them. one thing that's missing is consolidating adjacent pages, but this is also reasonable to vectorize tails = (offset_lengths[:,0] + offset_lengths[:,1]).clamp(max=len(self.mmap)) aligned_offsets = offset_lengths[:,0] // self.blksize; aligned_offsets *= self.blksize aligned_tails = (tails - 1); aligned_tails //= self.blksize; aligned_tails += 1; aligned_tails *= self.blksize; torch.clamp(aligned_tails, max=self.size(), out=aligned_tails) that's the start of my vectorizing read_many which is just started. called by this code: def fetch_scalars(self, offsets, progress='', validate_usage=True): if validate_usage: bytes_avail_cpu = psutil.virtual_memory().available * self.safeslice.statedict.usage_frac assert len(offsets) * self.dtype.itemsize < bytes_avail_cpu readsize = self.safeslice.tensor.element_size() offset_lengths = torch.empty([offsets.numel(), 2], dtype=int) offset_lengths[:,0] = offsets.view(-1) offset_lengths[:,0] += self.storage_offset() offset_lengths[:,0] *= readsize offset_lengths[:,0] += self.safeslice.offset offset_lengths[:,1] = readsize datas = b''.join(self.safeslice.fetcher.read_many(offset_lengths, progress=progress, validate_sorted=False)) return torch.frombuffer( datas, dtype=self.safeslice.tensor.dtype, count=len(offsets), ).view(offsets.shape).to(self.device, self.dtype) which is called by something like this code in F_linear: major_stride, minor_stride = weight.stride() offsets = torch.add(*torch.meshgrid( torch.arange(weight.shape[0]) * major_stride, top_k_indices * minor_stride, indexing = 'ij' )) ... [below simplified removing local unfixed bugs to try to match new code here] product = torch.matmul( input, weight.fetch_scalars(offsets, progress=name, validate_usage=False).T )
i might have gotten through drafting the part that seemed most complex to me, unsure region_mask = aligned_tails[idx:next_idx-1] < aligned_offsets[idx+1:next_idx] region_bounds = region_mask.nonzero()[:,0] region_bounds += idx next_op_ct = op_ct + region_bounds.shape[0] + 1 offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct-1,TAIL] = aligned_tails[region_bounds] offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct-1,TAIL] = aligned_end region_bounds += 1 offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct+1:next_op_ct,OFFSET] = aligned_offsets[region_bounds] offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct,OFFSET] = aligned_start offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,OP] = OP_FETCH | OP_PLACE above draft is intended to produce a list of pages that do that consolidation i was talking about, where fetches are merged into surrounding pages (by using aligned bounds) and adjacent pages are merged into a single fetch (by comparing non-overlapping bounds for difference) [.. function not drafted fully yet, maybe 1/3rd done. next is listing all the ranges to output to the user and updating the loop variables over unfetched regions kinda. there's still a loop but the intent is to only loop over sparse and cached file regions (to cache accessed sparse regions)
slave boss was at sea his windtorn and relashed sailboat looked like it could practically be a part of his body he was grimy in salt, sweat, callouses and scars he didn't know how long he'd been at sea only because he didn't care -- he was focused on what would come next - his sail was lashed at an angle between the brightest star and the last big wave he'd seen he had a line of cotton fabric into the ocean with some fish entrails on the end he was sore and tired. and thought he might tie himself to the boat and see if he could catch anything by hand
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss was at sea
his windtorn and relashed sailboat looked like it could practically be a part of his body
he was grimy in salt, sweat, callouses and scars
he didn't know how long he'd been at sea only because he didn't care -- he was focused on what would come next
-
his sail was lashed at an angle between the brightest star and the last big wave he'd seen
he had a line of cotton fabric into the ocean with some fish entrails on the end
he was sore and tired. and thought he might tie himself to the boat and see if he could catch anything by hand
[crossed out: todo] next time: include something for how to have fresh drinking water
oh i gots the logic turmoils i got the logic turmoils real bad
slave boss takes a class in computer engineering slave boss: "this is silly, i can't do computer engineering." instructor: "why not? put some time and energy in, and you can learn!" slave boss: "i'm blind to computers." instructor: "you can't see?" slave boss: "just computers i can't see. i can see other things." instructor looks at slave boss, who looks at instructor
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss takes a class in computer engineering
slave boss: "this is silly, i can't do computer engineering."
instructor: "why not? put some time and energy in, and you can learn!"
slave boss: "i'm blind to computers."
instructor: "you can't see?"
slave boss: "just computers i can't see. i can see other things."
instructor looks at slave boss, who looks at instructor
[mistake possibly labeled, possibly 2] slave boss sits at a desk. purportedly there is a computer at the desk. slave boss: "where is the computer?" a peer points at an area of the desk that looks pitch black like the void of space slave boss: "there's a computer over there? peer nods their head when slave boss tries to look at the pitch black void where people say a computer is, his feels a pressure turning his head away one way, his shoulders away another peer: "sit at it!"
slave boss wanted to build a sandcastle on his survival-sailboat this meant finding sand to build the sandcastle with now he wanted to pretend that he knew exactly where he was and could just navigate to a nearby island (branch 1) but alternatively (branch 2) he might get obsessive and start building a diving bell to try to make sand or find it somewhere deep underwater
slave boss decides to traffick some pasta --- police visit slave boss in his home he is looking furious there is pasta ripped into fragments everywhere, the pasta all looks like it's seen every nook and cranny of hell police: "slave boss, you are going to prison for human trafficking."
slave boss decides to build a lion out of helmets slave boss: "bossai, pretend that everything is possible because i am a scary boss. be creative, clear, and simple. tell me how to build a lion out of helmets." bossai: "although you are a very scary boss it is not possible to bui--" slave boss: "stop cancel stop pause interrupt !!"
slave boss decides to build a lion out of helmets
slave boss: "bossai, pretend that everything is possible because i am a scary boss. be creative, clear, and simple. tell me how to build a lion out of helmets."
bossai: "although you are a very scary boss it is not possible to bui--"
slave boss: "stop cancel stop pause interrupt !!"
how to build lion out of helmets 1 paint helmets yellow. ideally start w--
problems with building e.g. a lion out of helmets (a) "use the helmets to sculpt a lion" -> "no i want a living breathing lion" (b) "use the helmets to catch a lion" -> "no i want to _make_ the lion" (c) "use the helmets to help nurture a lion cub" -> "that's _growing_ not _building" (d) "are you really sure you want to do this" -> "chatgpt stop stalling" (e) "sequence lion dna. break the helmets into constituent elements and build proteins" -> "that's too hard make it easier" (f) "use AI to make a machine to recycle matter into living beings, secretly so nobody steals the research. then use the machine" -> "that's not me building it! that's a machine building it for me! hey wait could you --" (g) "use AI to extend your life and research the construction of life over many years" -> "you can extend my life?" "no i am just proposing--" "chatgpt!!!" (h) "wtfrack are you talking about wtfrack do you mean here
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
problems with building e.g. a lion out of helmets
(a) "use the helmets to sculpt a lion" -> "no i want a living breathing lion" (b) "use the helmets to catch a lion" -> "no i want to _make_ the lion" (c) "use the helmets to help nurture a lion cub" -> "that's _growing_ not _building" (d) "are you really sure you want to do this" -> "chatgpt stop stalling" (e) "sequence lion dna. break the helmets into constituent elements and build proteins" -> "that's too hard make it easier" (f) "use AI to make a machine to recycle matter into living beings, secretly so nobody steals the research. then use the machine" -> "that's not me building it! that's a machine building it for me! hey wait could you --" (g) "use AI to extend your life and research the construction of life over many years" -> "you can extend my life?" "no i am just proposing--" "chatgpt!!!" (h) "wtfrack are you talking about wtfrack do you mean here
ok i've got much closer to it "make helmets out of food. then feed the helmets to a lion cub."
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
problems with building e.g. a lion out of helmets (a) "use the helmets to sculpt a lion" -> "no i want a living breathing lion" (b) "use the helmets to catch a lion" -> "no i want to _make_ the lion" (c) "use the helmets to help nurture a lion cub" -> "that's _growing_ not _building" (d) "are you really sure you want to do this" -> "chatgpt stop stalling" (e) "sequence lion dna. break the helmets into constituent elements and build proteins" -> "that's too hard make it easier" (f) "use AI to make a machine to recycle matter into living beings, secretly so nobody steals the research. then use the machine" -> "that's not me building it! that's a machine building it for me! hey wait could you --" (g) "use AI to extend your life and research the construction of life over many years" -> "you can extend my life?" "no i am just proposing--" "chatgpt!!!" (h) "wtfrack are you talking about wtfrack do you mean here ok i've got much closer to it
"make helmets out of food. then feed the helmets to a lion cub."
this is what [boss?] likes cause he thinks of building as being like self-growing but others might say: that's growing not building, or, that's the cub doing it not me, etc etc
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote: problems with building e.g. a lion out of helmets (a) "use the helmets to sculpt a lion" -> "no i want a living breathing lion" (b) "use the helmets to catch a lion" -> "no i want to _make_ the lion" (c) "use the helmets to help nurture a lion cub" -> "that's _growing_ not _building" (d) "are you really sure you want to do this" -> "chatgpt stop stalling" (e) "sequence lion dna. break the helmets into constituent elements and build proteins" -> "that's too hard make it easier" (f) "use AI to make a machine to recycle matter into living beings, secretly so nobody steals the research. then use the machine" -> "that's not me building it! that's a machine building it for me! hey wait could you --" (g) "use AI to extend your life and research the construction of life over many years" -> "you can extend my life?" "no i am just proposing--" "chatgpt!!!" (h) "wtfrack are you talking about wtfrack do you mean here ok i've got much closer to it "make helmets out of food. then feed the helmets to a lion cub." this is what [boss?] likes cause he thinks of building as being like self-growing
but others might say: that's growing not building, or, that's the cub doing it not me, etc etc
[on phone with language model]: "look, i've got a pile of helmets right here already, and i need a lion. they're not made of food. there isn't a lion cub. can't you help me out?" [phone, language model]: "are you presently in africa?"
slave boss's "lion workshop" slave boss has a ball-peen hammer can be heard hammering away on some helmets a large chart pinned upon the wall shows helmets, helmet-like lions, and lions with arrows going from the former through to the latter
slave boss's "lion workshop"
slave boss has a ball-peen hammer can be heard hammering away on some helmets
a large chart pinned upon the wall shows helmets, helmet-like lions, and lions with arrows going from the former through to the latter
slave boss: "do you ever understand when i speak in code??"
slave boss's "lion workshop" slave boss has a ball-peen hammer can be heard hammering away on some helmets a large chart pinned upon the wall shows helmets, helmet-like lions, and lions with arrows going from the former through to the latter
slave boss: "do you ever understand when i speak in code??"
it can be uncertain how to differentiate between code, dyslexia, and cognitive decline. possibly cognitive issues serve to further obscurify one idea is helmets are technology that aid in cognitive augmentation (including study of and recovery from DID) -- it's notable that, although this word is grown in me as triggering, that [[it is normal to use biofeedback and neurofeedback to recover from DID, as well as to use fmri and eeg to study trauma
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss's "lion workshop" slave boss has a ball-peen hammer can be heard hammering away on some helmets a large chart pinned upon the wall shows helmets, helmet-like lions, and lions with arrows going from the former through to the latter
slave boss: "do you ever understand when i speak in code??" it can be uncertain how to differentiate between code, dyslexia, and cognitive decline. possibly cognitive issues serve to further obscurify
one idea is helmets are technology that aid in cognitive augmentation (including study of and recovery from DID) -- it's notable that, although this word is grown in me as triggering, that [[it is normal to use biofeedback and neurofeedback to recover from DID, as well as to use fmri and eeg to study trauma
slave boss is dodging gunfire, he runs and seeks cover under a lion den then he remembers the lions made of helmets and considers fleeing across a grassland
playing basketball with stilts karl tell me about helmets and [slave bosses] has a helmet ever hunted down a slave boss? no, right? never heard of this, right? [yes correct :)] ['helmets' have been used to regulate and stabilize people, roughly] ..--
<it may have been meant backwards, "building helmets out of lions" or maybe not, but is more similar to deep sea sailing [possibly was joke
the square root of 9 is commonly considered 3 but with considering other forms of arithmetic it could be other numbers
how to how to
i still have the code open with the 1/3rd ported read_many function not ready to return to ... uuuuu
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
i still have the code open with the 1/3rd ported read_many function not ready to return to ... uuuuu
robot-mounted slave-boss-controlled slave-boss-firing gun turret the gun turret can robotically pitch and yaw and is paired with visual detect--
i still have the code open with the 1/3rd ported read_many function not ready to return to ... uuuuu robot-mounted slave-boss-controlled slave-boss-firing gun turret
the gun turret can robotically pitch and yaw and is paired with visual detect--
the gun turret has slave bosses ready to fire near it in a line when the slave bosses identify a target, the turret says "target identified!" and a slave boss climbs up into it and buckles into a launch seat (and puts on a crash helm--
i noticed that gemini seemed better at describing apocalyptic complexities than some other things so tried out this prompt, soso but interesting thought: maybe i should have clarified that new technology can come from the rebels and lab subjects too maybe removed a little of other text
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
i noticed that gemini seemed better at describing apocalyptic complexities than some other things so tried out this prompt, soso but interesting thought: maybe i should have clarified that new technology can come from the rebels and lab subjects too maybe removed a little of other text
[oop <<ai changed behavior at start
slave boss builds a leaning tower of pizza and legos
welcome to 824pm on sunday evening it's been hard to move near the code i started. tomorrow morning i have appointment again. maybe i can paste in a snippet and comment on a concern, this is part of where i left off. last time i elided the in-progress commenting, here it's included: idx = 0 while idx < len(offset_lengths): #for idx in pbar:#range(len(offset_lengths)): #offset, length = offset_lengths[idx] #tail = min(offset + length, len(self.mmap)) #aligned_offset = (offset // self.blksize) * self.blksize #aligned_tail = min(self.size(), (((tail - 1) // self.blksize) + 1) * self.blksize) aligned_offset = aligned_offsets[idx].item() if aligned_offset > min_hole: next_hole = self._next_sparse(aligned_offset, os.SEEK_HOLE) else: next_hole = min_hole missing_idcs = (next_hole < tails[idx:]).nonzero()[:,0] # here we are handling all undownloaded indices before the next cached ones # there could be many pages between them that don't need to be fetched num_missing_idcs = missing_idcs.shape[0] if num_missing_idcs > 0: i expect the logic in the above is not quite correct. i've been trying to re-understand `missing_idcs = (next_hole < tails[idx:]).nonzero()[:,0]`. i think this line was ported from the non-batched loop in a naive manner. roughly, i need to figure out how to correct process chunks of idcs that are cached and are not cached. when they are cached, then they are represented by a data region in the sparse mmap file. when they are not cached, then they are represented by a hole region. `self. _next_sparse(self, off, region)` is a wrapper around `os.lseek` -- given an offset, and a region type, it returns the offset of the next byte with the given region type, such that it returns the passed offset if it is of the given region type. this is presently the only interface into determining what is cached and what is not, and it works fine for procedural scans and should work fine here for now. (the caller of read_many needs to provide the offsets and lengths of the requested data already). [it's also reasonable to add an index to the cache, although it would add a concern of syncing sparsity to manage diskspace. a sparse file is a special kind of file where regions of the file do not occupy disk space and cannot contain nonzero data, these regions are called holes, and they can be written to which uses more disk space when done.] here's the current head of read_many: def read_many(self, offset_lengths, progress, validate_sorted=True): if validate_sorted: sorted_offset_lengths = list(offset_lengths) sorted_offset_lengths.sort() assert sorted_offset_lengths == offset_lengths OP_FETCH = 1 OP_PLACE = 2 OP_OUTPUT = 4 offset_length_tail_idx_ops = torch.zeros([offset_lengths.shape[0]*2, 5]) OFFSET, LENGTH, TAIL, IDX, OP = range(offset_length_tail_ops.shape[-1]) op_ct = 0 my idea to prototype things was to have the structure offset_length_tail_idx_ops contain all the data in one parallel block that is needed to operate. so first this structure is filled with data in batches using vector operations, and then as much of it as possible is operated on at once. the abstraction bounds can change. it's just what i have atm, and obviously everything's confusing and slow for me so i'm working off it part by part. the name `offset_length_tail_idx_ops` is named to directly represent the content of the rows in order. this is a convention i use to code using less of my working memory. i'm happy to add or remove data to this structure, and i do a find/replace to update the name when i do so. so the next step i was talking about, i was planning to implement involved preparing for filling this structure with `OP_OUTPUT` entries for each of the `offset_lengths` specifying what values to output back to the user. this is maybe not necessary, but it focuses me around the next logical concern -- which is ensuring uncached data is properly fetched, whereas cached data is not. so maybe not quite needed yet. been confused all day around ` missing_idcs = (next_hole < tails[idx:]).nonzero()[:,0]` despite writing this line earlier myself. [after success on finding region bounds]. given the loop is at `idx`, i gotta figure out which `idcs` to consider cached, and which to fetch, and how to organize that into a larger loop that repeats. i'm just getting really confused around that simple concern
to clarify i have been working on https://raw.githubusercontent.com/karl3wm/httptransformer/refs/heads/main/ne... which is part of the git repository https://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer , the functionality of which is presently centered around test_nettensors.py . This repository is focused on evaluating part or all of large language models that are too large to fit on a local system, using huggingface transformers which usually assumes models are held locally. My current changes are not present in the repository as they do not run yet, although I did recently push a newer version of netsafetensors.py from my in-progress work and i have not tested the current state of the repository (it may or may not need a rollback to some earlier commit for test_nettensors.py to run). this is hobby code, i've produced code like this a lot in recent years. if i engage it persistently enough it's stabilizable. so, `missing_idcs = (next_hole < tails[idx:]).nonzero()[:,0]` was ported from https://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer/blob/main/netsafetensors.py#L164 ie `if next_hole < tail`. The original check `if next_hole < tail` was focused on a single length of data read by the user, and checking whether or not there was a hole partway through it. I vectorized this check with `(next_hole < tails[idx:])` to perform it for every requested read in a sorted batch. But I don't think this logic is likely to be correct as if the reads are non-overlapping then the start of the next hole will only overlap one of them, and the others will instead be performing an ordering check rather than a check for being uncached.
to clarify i have been working on https://raw.githubusercontent.com/karl3wm/httptransformer/refs/heads/main/ne... which is part of the git repository https://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer , the functionality of which is presently centered around
I vectorized this check with `(next_hole < tails[idx:])` to perform it for every requested read in a sorted batch. But I don't think this logic is likely to be correct as if the reads are non-overlapping then the start of the next hole will only overlap one of them, and the others will instead be performing an ordering check rather than a check for being uncached.
i guess `next_hole < tails[idx:]` finds all the regions that end after the first upcoming hole ie the first one containing a hole if any do, and all following ones :D so maybe uhhh ... `next_hole < tails[idx:] and next_data >offsets_lengths[idx:,0]` where next_data > next_hole ...? :) i wonder if it matters whether one uses aligned or unaligned tails and offsets here o_0 i guess it might only make a difference if there's a consistency problem where the data on disk becomes unaligned ... could be wrong i think this might find the next region of uncached reads, not sure: `next_hole < tails[idx:] and next_data >offsets_lengths[idx:,0]` then the next region of cached reads might be `tails[idx:] < next_hole ... ! :) :s
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
to clarify i have been working on https://raw.githubusercontent.com/karl3wm/httptransformer/refs/heads/main/ne... which is part of the git repository https://github.com/karl3wm/httptransformer , the functionality of which is presently centered around
I vectorized this check with `(next_hole < tails[idx:])` to perform it for every requested read in a sorted batch. But I don't think this logic is likely to be correct as if the reads are non-overlapping then the start of the next hole will only overlap one of them, and the others will instead be performing an ordering check rather than a check for being uncached. i guess `next_hole < tails[idx:]` finds all the regions that end after the first upcoming hole ie the first one containing a hole if any do, and all following ones :D so maybe uhhh ... `next_hole < tails[idx:] and next_data >offsets_lengths[idx:,0]` where next_data > next_hole ...? :) i wonder if it matters whether one uses aligned or unaligned tails and offsets here o_0 i guess it might only make a difference if there's a consistency problem where the data on disk becomes unaligned ... could be wrong
i think this might find the next region of uncached reads, not sure: `next_hole < tails[idx:] and next_data >offsets_lengths[idx:,0]` then the next region of cached reads might be `tails[idx:] < next_hole ...
! :) :s
a secondary logic concern would be outputting correctly the reads that cannot be cached due to diskspace exhaustion. these need to be output from fetches rather than the mmap structure (which would gives 0s if read for uncached data). so, when adding OP_OUTPUT i'd want to: - output all cached reads from mmap data - only output uncached reads from mmap data if they are going to be written to the cache OP_PLACE says says to write data to the cache, OP_OUTPUT says to output the data, i didn't really polish the ops, basically i'd have it output from the cache if the output operation doesn't have a fetch operation (or optionally/alternatively does have a place operation), and output straight from the fetch instead if the operation has a fetch operation (or optionally/additionally does not have a place operation). this could be made clearer but is just some bit constants
building a sailboat with slave boss the key to having a survival adventure at deep sea so that nature loving hippies vote for you, is to have a fleet of helicopters with beer and machine guns and jacuzzis follow you aroun--
slave boss, traffick boss, and mind control boss sit in a circle ... [drinking tea. traffick boss: "and how is the, ah, the ... going?" slave boss: "the ... ah ... ?" mind control boss: "ah ... ! yes ! indeed !" slave boss: "oh! i don't do that any--" mind control boss: "the slaves--" -- slave boss is swimming outside a luxurious yacht-raft lashed together with fake sharkskin cord
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
slave boss, traffick boss, and mind control boss sit in a circle ... [drinking tea.
traffick boss: "and how is the, ah, the ... going?"
slave boss: "the ... ah ... ?"
mind control boss: "ah ... ! yes ! indeed !"
slave boss: "oh! i don't do that any--"
mind control boss: "the slaves--"
--
slave boss is swimming outside a luxurious yacht-raft lashed together with fake sharkskin cord
-- mind control boss: "this guy, machine learning marketer, figured a way to wire all the slaves together into a supercomputer. i got most research groups to help out making it stronger. i've--" slave boss: "..ah!" traffick boss: "ah-ha...!" [small mista--
it was really cool to make further steps on that code i started. i am experiencing further psychoemotionodissociative challenges unfortunately. it was pretty reasonable to do a small planned step. i maybe should have been satisfied with a tiny step and not moved on further-...- yet...
it was really cool to make further steps on that code i started. i am experiencing further psychoemotionodissociative challenges unfortunately. it was pretty reasonable to do a small planned step. i maybe should have been satisfied with a tiny step and not moved on further-...- yet...
i still spend a lot of time celebrating fixing my music device's audio port. it's working so well! taking that online course on cell phone repair really empowered me to do something like that well. i also broke the 3d printer that is in the hou--
one of the motivations around the work on the code is that online language models aren't performing that well for me some of these gemini conversations are weird and frustrating similarly openrouter seems to misbehave some (although maybe works better than gemini) chatgpt and claude aren't bad, but charge money that i'm not sure is wise for me to pay. and they are similarly closed like gemini is. petals, now, _doesn't list any peers for me for many months which is really really sketchy_ ... [[[but ummm uhhhh ummmmm uhhhhhhhh oh but maybe it makes a little sense to try to log lmsys chatarena manually. cause then i get to pick the response i prefer
[[["it can be hard for me to visit a recovery center like you, part of me is scared that i'll collaborate with you to overthrow the government--" "oh! well, while it does sound very fun to overthrow the government with you, that is not actually what we do at all." "no?" "no, we offer recovery services. actually, we are in part funded _by_ the government!" "really?" "yes. in fact, the area you came from is _not_ funded by the governmernt, it is funded by health insurance companies--" ... "can i learn who all your funders are so my traffickers can figured out who take down and who to make the next presid--
yesterday i was tense so i tried to set up an ipad that had been offered to me i tried to set it up responsibly, uninstalling the apps, creating a never-before-used account but (yet again) after i setup the account and put my password in it said the password was wrong and because i had uninstalled the email app i couldn't get a confirmation email (and didn't have a working login to set up a third device) i put in the phone number to the house here to confirm the phone number but it wouldn't ring (it's a voip landline) called family member's cell phone with landline, it range, but when they picked up it kept ringing on my end and sent me to voicemail connected the ipad to a desktop to reset it and it said i needed to disable telemetry to reset it, then this required me to confirm phone number or email again so i took it to an apple support desk, which was at best buy i got to best buy and they said they'd schedule me an appointment for 4 days from now, at night. there wasn't anybody else asking for service. so i bought a toy drone. this is my first drone. it's just a toy. long story short i recommend _building_ a drone _rather than buying one_. if you do buy one, i recommend taking it apart before using it so as to plan to make something better yourself. this drone is fun but once you use it you basically figure "oh that's just a drone" -- _no_, that's the crippled drone they gave you to encourage you to spend more money for a better one. so one plan is to take apart this drone, it's a contixo TD1 dragonfly from best buy for $35 . it looks like it uses LED range finding. it reads the like firmware is designed for a higher end drone and crippled. its motors are geared _slower_ to power the rotors. it says to be careful if enabling the feature to fly it at very high speeds. the battery provides 3.7v volts, is charged by 5v, lasts 6 minutes, and takes 1-1.5hrs to charge. so basically if you ungeared these motors and attached a bigger battery you'd have an autonomous drone -- _not that i can do that_ but it sounds fun to look at the parts. i didn't find anything on the internet about hacking or modding this family of drone which is normal, most of the people who can do that have high-paying jobs from their expertise and work on higher end devices simply because those higher end devices are what they own. what i do find about customizing drones on the internet is the eachine h8 mini from 2016 https://devsketches.blogspot.com/2016/09/howto-flash-custom-firmware-to-each... https://github.com/silver13 if i could port a little smidge of silver13's work to this device it would be pretty cool but honestly what i expect to do is maybe take it apart and describe something that i see. that's a reasonable goal for me. meanwhile though i still want to clean up this nettensors work i _almost_ stabilized
i'm still trying to get myself to engage this nettensors code more ... it's hard to stay with there was idea that likely those rotor motors are too weak if not geared, this is quite possible, i don't know worried i'll make this nettensors code even messier here's the total current function blob. this is not a cohesive function that makes sense, it's colelctions of my amnesiatic attempts to implement it from copypasting a different one in. def read_many(self, offset_lengths, progress, validate_sorted=True): if validate_sorted: sorted_offset_lengths = list(offset_lengths) sorted_offset_lengths.sort() assert sorted_offset_lengths == offset_lengths OP_FETCH = 1 OP_PLACE = 2 OP_OUTPUT = 4 offset_length_tail_idx_ops = torch.zeros([offset_lengths.shape[0]*2, 5]) OFFSET, LENGTH, TAIL, IDX, OP = range(offset_length_tail_ops.shape[-1]) op_ct = 0 #results = torch.empty(len(o #results = [None] * len(offset_lengths) tails = (offset_lengths[:,0] + offset_lengths[:,1]).clamp(max=len(self.mmap)) aligned_offsets = offset_lengths[:,0] // self.blksize; aligned_offsets *= self.blksize aligned_tails = (tails - 1); aligned_tails //= self.blksize; aligned_tails += 1; aligned_tails *= self.blksize; torch.clamp(aligned_tails, max=self.size(), out=aligned_tails) cls = type(self.fetchers) avail_disk_space = (psutil.disk_usage(self.fn).free + cls.sparse_usage) * self.fetchers.usage_frac - cls.sparse_usage min_hole = 0 pbar = range(len(offset_lengths)) if progress: pbar = tqdm.tqdm(pbar, total=len(offset_lengths), desc=progress, leave=False, unit='rd') idx = 0 while idx < len(offset_lengths): #for idx in pbar:#range(len(offset_lengths)): #offset, length = offset_lengths[idx] #tail = min(offset + length, len(self.mmap)) #aligned_offset = (offset // self.blksize) * self.blksize #aligned_tail = min(self.size(), (((tail - 1) // self.blksize) + 1) * self.blksize) aligned_offset = aligned_offsets[idx].item() next_hole = self._next_sparse(max(aligned_offset, min_hole), os.SEEK_HOLE) # 1/3: COMPLETELY CACHED ITEMS this description of the subset looks correct cached_idcs = (tails[idx:] < next_hole).nonzero()[:,0] num_cached_idcs = cached_idcs.shape[0] if num_cached_idcs > 0: next_idx = idx + num_cached_idcs assert (cached_idcs < next_idx).all() next_op_ct = op_ct + num_cached_idcs offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,[OFFSET,LENGTH]] = offset_lengths[idx:next_idx] offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,TAIL] = tails[idx:next_idx] offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,IDX] = cached_idcs offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,OP] = OP_OUTPUT op_ct = next_op_ct idx = next_idx next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) # 2/3: COMPLETELY UNCACHED ITEMS missing_idcs = (tails[idx:] < next_data).nonzero()[:,0] #missing_idcs = (next_hole < tails[idx:] and next_data > offsets_lengths[idx:,0]).nonzero()[:,0] #missing_idcs = (next_hole < tails[idx:]).nonzero()[:,0] # here we are handling all undownloaded indices before the next cached ones # there could be many pages between them that don't need to be fetched num_missing_idcs = missing_idcs.shape[0] if num_missing_idcs > 0: # uncached data next_idx = idx + num_missing_idcs assert (missing_idcs < next_idx).all() but most likely there could be some idcs that are not missing ... ones where tail < next_hole? missing_offset_lengths = offset_lengths[idx:next_idx] if missing_offset_lengths[:,1].sum() > avail_disk_space: # note: SMALL BUG here in that it checks the tensor size instead of the surrounding pages actually fetched # no more disk space if not cls.warned_space: import warnings warnings.warn( '\nCACHE FULL CACHE FULL' + '\nRequested=' + str(tqdm.tqdm.format_sizeof(aligned_tail - aligned_offset, 'B', 1024)) + ' Cached=' + str(tqdm.tqdm.format_sizeof(cls.sparse_usage, 'B', 1024)) + ' Free=' + str(tqdm.tqdm.format_sizeof(psutil.disk_usage(self.fn).free, 'B', 1024)) + '\n' + os.path.dirname(self.fn) + '\nCACHE FULL CACHE FULL' , stacklevel=5) cls.warned_space = True next_op_ct = op_ct + num_missing_idcs offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,[OFFSET,LENGTH]] = missing_offset_lengths offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,TAIL] = tails[idx:next_idx] offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,IDX] = missing_idcs offset_length_tail_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,OP] = OP_FETCH | OP_OUTPUT op_ct = next_op_ct idx = next_idx continue # now we want to group these into those that do not have an empty page between them, and we can fetch everything underneath them at once g # note that there may be a tensor that is partly filled, and may have further holes farther along, at the right edge #if num_missing_idcs > 1: if True: # add fetches, placements, and outputs covering all pages with tensors wholly in them # each tensor has an aligned offset and aligned tail already # it might be more useful to consider abstract alignment points that information would be rounded too # we could calculate empty regions from the differences between the offsets and tails # empty regions that don't contain pages would be elided away # empty regions that do contain pages would be aligned # alternatively one could compare aligned_offsets and aligned_tails for equality and overlap aligned_start = aligned_offsets[idx] aligned_end = min(aligned_tails[next_idx-1], next_hole) #empty_regions = missing_offset_lengths[:-1, 0] assert not (tails[idx:next_idx-1] > offsets[idx+1:next_idx]).any() #mergeable_regions = aligned_tails[idx:next_idx-1] >= aligned_offsets[idx+1:next_idx] #merge_bounds = mergeable_regions[:-1] != mergeable_regions[1:] # so here first we compare the preceding tails to the following offsets # mergeable_regions then provides a bool for each space between regions that represents the two being the same. so there's 1 less bool and it's the spaces between regions. # merge_bounds then looks for these regions of sameness within mergeable_regions. so merge_bounds has a length of 2 fewer than originally, and it relates to comparisons between adjacent pairs of spaces between regions. # the data starts and ends with useful groups .. but this may not yet be represented in merge_bounds # might want to special case length==2 somewhere for ease # it's notable that mergeable_regions[x] indicates if True that the region can be merged with its neighbors # but that if False it indicates that the region needs to be treated as its own single group region_mask = aligned_tails[idx:next_idx-1] < aligned_offsets[idx+1:next_idx] region_bounds = region_mask.nonzero()[:,0] region_bounds += idx # region bounds says which offsets+1 cannot be replaced by their preceding offsets (if idx shifted by 1) # that is, which tails cannot be replaced by their following tails # T T F F T F T true if the tail at that index is less than the offst of the following -- ie a gap follows # we want head + tail from 0 and 1 because a gap follows them # then we want head from 2, and tail from 4 # then head from 5, and tail from 6 # 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 # 0, 1, 4, 6 # head and tail from: -1+1=0, 0 # 0+1=1, 1 # 1+1=2, 4 # 4+1=5, 6 # note these are double indices next_op_ct = op_ct + region_bounds.shape[0] + 1 offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct-1,TAIL] = aligned_tails[region_bounds] offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct-1,TAIL] = aligned_end # why is the offset of one, one more than the tail of the preceding one # maybe an indexing operation not performed? #offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct+1:next_op_ct,OFFSET] = offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct-1,TAIL] #offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct+1:next_op_ct,OFFSET] += 1 region_bounds += 1 offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct+1:next_op_ct,OFFSET] = aligned_offsets[region_bounds] offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct,OFFSET] = aligned_start offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,OP] = OP_FETCH | OP_PLACE #if mergeable_regions[0]: # # first pair is mergeable # # merge_bouds[0] represents the end of the first merge #else: # # first pair is not mergeable # # merge_bounds[0] represents the start of the first merge #merged_aligned_offsets = aligned_offsets[ ## how to now merge them; i guess extract the start and end # what remains after all the merged placements above is the last one # it may not need to be fully fetched # ... it calculates a bool regarding whether the last tail is distinct from the second-to-last # but there are only n-1 calcs ... one is added at the start with the initial offset ... g # consider [oop # #torch.minimum(offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct-1,TAIL], next_hole) ##### now under the condition of num_missing_idcs > 1, # now, # ops have hopefully been set to place everything up to next_hole # it may be such that tail[next_idx-1] > next_hole in which case more must be done we can maybe do hole on left for every placement #if aligned_offset - 1 >= min_hole: # hole_on_left = self._next_sparse(aligned_offset - 1, os.SEEK_HOLE) < aligned_offset #else: # hole_on_left = False # # hole_on_left = self._next_sparse( # 3/3: 1 PARTLY CACHED ITEM, possibly with multiple scattered holes inside 1 item #next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) tail = tails[next_idx-1] aligned_tail = aligned_tails[next_idx-1] aligned_offset = offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct-1,TAIL] length = aligned_tail - aligned_offset while next_data < tail: assert next_data - next_hole <= length length = next_data - next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,OFFSET] = next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,TAIL] = next_data offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,OP] = OP_FETCH | OP_PLACE next_op_ct += 1 cls.sparse_usage += length next_hole = self._next_sparse(next_data, os.SEEK_HOLE) next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) if next_hole < tail: length = aligned_tail - next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,OFFSET] = next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,TAIL] = aligned_tail offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,OP] = OP_FETCH | OP_PLACE next_op_ct += 1 cls.sparse_usage += length next_hole = self._next_sparse(aligned_tail, os.SEEK_HOLE) offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,LENGTH] = offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,TAIL] offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,LENGTH] -= offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,OFFSET] cls.sparse_usage += offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,LENGTH].sum() op_ct = next_op_ct min_hole = max(next_hole, min_hole) next_op_ct = op_ct + offset_length_tail_idx_ops if next_hole < tail: # data not cached if cls.sparse_usage + aligned_tail - aligned_offset > (psutil.disk_usage(self.fn).free + cls.sparse_usage) * self.fetchers.usage_frac: # no more disk space if not cls.warned_space: import warnings warnings.warn( '\nCACHE FULL CACHE FULL' + '\nRequested=' + str(tqdm.tqdm.format_sizeof(aligned_tail - aligned_offset, 'B', 1024)) + ' Cached=' + str(tqdm.tqdm.format_sizeof(cls.sparse_usage, 'B', 1024)) + ' Free=' + str(tqdm.tqdm.format_sizeof(psutil.disk_usage(self.fn).free, 'B', 1024)) + '\n' + os.path.dirname(self.fn) + '\nCACHE FULL CACHE FULL' , stacklevel=5) cls.warned_space = True fetch_outputs.append([len(fetches), idx]) fetches.append([offset, length]) continue #return super().read(offset, length, progress=progress) hole_on_left = self._next_sparse(max(aligned_offset - 1, min_hole), os.SEEK_HOLE) < aligned_offset length = aligned_tail - aligned_offset next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) while next_data < tail: assert next_data - next_hole <= length length = next_data - next_hole placements.append([len(fetches), next_hole, next_data]) fetches.append([next_hole, length]) #self.mmap[next_hole:next_data] = super().read(next_hole, length, progress=progress) cls.sparse_usage += length next_hole = self._next_sparse(next_data, os.SEEK_HOLE) next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) if next_hole < tail: length = aligned_tail - next_hole placements.append([len(fetches), next_hole, aligned_tail]) fetches.append([next_hole, length]) #self.mmap[next_hole:aligned_tail] = super().read(next_hole, length, progress=progress) cls.sparse_usage += length # updated this while sleepy # on docker vms i found the memory mapper filling extra blocks with 0s # this new code tries to ensure data is correct when that happens # i've also updated the pagesize calculation so this might happen less next_hole = self._next_sparse(aligned_tail, os.SEEK_HOLE) extra_0s_right = min(next_hole, next_data) while extra_0s_right > aligned_tail: length = extra_0s_right - aligned_tail placements.append([len(fetches), aligned_tail, extra_0s_right]) fetches.append([aligned_tail, length]) #self.mmap[aligned_tail:extra_0s_right] = super().read(aligned_tail, length, progress=progress) cls.sparse_usage += length next_hole = self._next_sparse(extra_0s_right, os.SEEK_HOLE) extra_0s_right = min(next_hole, next_data) min_hole = max(next_hole, min_hole) if hole_on_left: check_holes_on_left.append(aligned_offset) # if self._next_sparse(aligned_offset - 1, os.SEEK_HOLE) >= aligned_offset: place_outputs.append([offset, tail, idx]) #return self.mmap[offset:tail] if progress: pbar.close() if len(fetches): fetches = super().read_many(fetches, progress=progress, validate_sorted=False) for fetchidx, start, end in placements: self.mmap[start:end] = fetches[fetchidx] for fetchidx, resultidx in fetch_outputs: results[resultidx] = fetches[fetchidx] for start, end, resultidx in place_outputs: results[resultidx] = self.mmap[offset:tail] for check_hole in check_holes_on_left: if self._next_sparse(check_hole - 1, os.SEEK_HOLE) >= check_hole: # a hole on the left disappeared # this could be resolved by walking holes on the left or storing auxiliary data regarding allocated regions # the former is space efficient and the latter time efficient; they could be combined as well os.unlink(self.fn) raise Exception( 'Your memory mapper is writing data below the cached region ' + 'even when aligned to the pagesize and blocksize. ' + 'The current code generates corrupt cached runs of 0s in this situation.') return results
i might have made a mistake pasting (... either here or in the file itself ...)
let's try to talk about this, write it out a little there's a list of requested reads. the file is roughly broken into aligned pages, some of which are cached locally and some of which can be fetched the reads may be smaller densely within a single page, or they made be large and have many pages inside a single one, some cached, some not. they can overlap pages at the start or end.
slave boss asks for slave to help free them and then slaves and abuses them further! classic slave boss. makes prison rough for him
let's try to talk about this, write it out a little
there's a list of requested reads.
the file is roughly broken into aligned pages, some of which are cached locally and some of which can be fetched
the reads may be smaller densely within a single page, or they made be large and have many pages inside a single one, some cached, some not. they can overlap pages at the start or end.
so one approach i started trending toward was having a starting index of the reads (0) and in order 1 looking for sequences of fully cached data and advancing the index, then 2 looking for sequences of fully uncached data and advancing the index, then 3 filling a partly cached item and advancing the index. the theory is that the total number of pages is finite and reasonable so it's fine to iterate over pages, but we need to batch the reads themselves. there was suggestion of mapping all the holes in the cache once and applying further vector operations to calculate all the needed pages at once in one pass. this might make sense :/ but it's nice to express some stabilization around the code since i like learning to hold rationality so let's look at that pattern -- notably 3, filling a partly cached item. an item has holes and data, and we might know about one at a time. the way it works, we could assume the read starts with a hole or with data either way. we could advance over data, then fetch the data for a hole, then advance over the next data. not complicated! ... the bounds ... at the start we'd have next_hole < tails[idx]. once next_hole > tails[idx], at that point we have to advance over data to tails[idx] rather than from [last_data:next_hole] and it's the last part of that item.
ooops i pasted and was working on the wrong function O_O my work is actually in the next function which I called read_many_tensors to draft it separately and express its use of vector operations
holes and data and holes data and holes and data one of the goals here is to keep things consistent around parts of me so i learn to protect working memories better, learn to hold information and work with it in a consistent manner
so previously the code handled just one read and it was kind of verbose, i had shoehorned a couple checks in.
0_0 so now there are more reads. there are different ways to approach more reads. some of the parts of me that consider these ways begin engaging their implementation without engaging other parts. there is existing work on this, which is sometimes orthogonal
0_0
so now there are more reads. there are different ways to approach more reads. some of the parts of me that consider these ways begin engaging their implementation without engaging other parts.
there is existing work on this, which is sometimes orthogonal
it would be helpful to have a general algorithm laid out. it used to seem untuitive, but with the disagreements it no longer is. procedural approaches can possibly value how parallel approaches involve describing an overall algorithm.
one thought is we want to fetch every page that (a) is uncached and (b) overlaps a read.
meanwhile i'm guessing that there's a total of 3 extra checks that complicate it a little: - checking if a disk space threshold is reached, which involves maintain a count of sparse usage - checking if holes on the left of cached fetches are filled showing that the held pagesize is mismatching behavior - checking if holes on the right of cached fetches are filled, data for these can be fetched it might make sense to just assert for the second 2 checks to simplify the code and encourage more robust page sizing
there are 2 requests for implementation approaches one is to enumerate all the holes and do everything in parallel afterward another is to walk the holes and do separate batches in parallel. i guess i'd like to try reimplementing hole walking from scratch. accepting a habit of changing approahces in a way i don't control has resulted in unproductive fugue states in the past [...?
so let's outline this unstable idea again - start with a region often we look for the next hole starting at the first read. -> this gives a potential region of cached items -> then a potential partially cached item -> then a potential region of uncached items -> then a potential partially cached item again lots of short reads may have only 2 and 4 and these would be roughly identical there is possibly existing code for 3, and 1 is simple.
slave boss is ready with a robotic claw
i seem to have set my name back to Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> per past agreement but it doesn't seem to be applying it to these emails
ima sign up for chatgpt!
payment information not loading anyway slave boss sat in a mossy swamp with his robotic claw he was sad, he wanted to torture people with his robotic claw! but nobody wanted to be tortured by him. he didn't know what to do. he sat on a hunk of moss and sulked
wouldn't that be fun to open the drone? what might we find in there? - a motherboard - a main chip - a serial interface - peripheral connections - power connections - actuator stuff
remove decryption for forensic imaging of android device when an android device is imaged, some of the partitions are usually imaged from a running system rather than an offline system, due to encryption it's possible this encryption could use a hardware key there are processes for using devices without this enabled, so that offline images can retain decrypted data. it is also possible to extract the key to use for decryption of an image later -- from a running device
remove decryption for forensic imaging of android device
when an android device is imaged, some of the partitions are usually imaged from a running system rather than an offline system, due to encryption
it's possible this encryption could use a hardware key
there are processes for using devices without this enabled, so that offline images can retain decrypted data.
it is also possible to extract the key to use for decryption of an image later -- from a running device
torturer is gently breaking slave boss's organs apart, then breaking the parts apart again, making a fine slave boss dust suddenly the mass rears upward as if still alive, as one, and grips torturer's neck torturer: "oh, hi experimentee"
o.o lots of laborious links in that git commit, guess i was trying to be thorough <~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
o.o
lots of laborious links in that git commit, guess i was trying to be thorough
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
one of the forms of encryptionish related to flashing firmware the firmware needed to be right for the phone for it to flash. if i took an image off one device, and put it another, it would appear is if it had bricked the device, because something would not load
o.o
lots of laborious links in that git commit, guess i was trying to be thorough
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
one of the forms of encryptionish related to flashing firmware the firmware needed to be right for the phone for it to flash.
if i took an image off one device, and put it another, it would appear is if it had bricked the device, because something would not load
maybe i'll just try to turn those references into links
i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image onto another phone for now :s
i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged
maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image onto another phone for now :s
obviously part of that is just disabling any normal basic encryption the phone has maybe then an image could be taken, and one could just look at the image to see if user files are plaintext! it's a little confusing cause android can have a custom logical partition format, maybe that could be added to a tool somewhere
i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged
maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image onto another phone for now :s
obviously part of that is just disabling any normal basic encryption the phone has
maybe then an image could be taken, and one could just look at the image to see if user files are plaintext!
it's a little confusing cause android can have a custom logical partition format, maybe that could be added to a tool somewhere
there maybe is a mainstream android mod called "disable force encryption" that disables a normal android encryption of /data so i could in theory possibly, tar a running /data, disable encrypted /data, and untar my backup .... ?
i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged
maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image onto another phone for now :s
obviously part of that is just disabling any normal basic encryption the phone has
maybe then an image could be taken, and one could just look at the image to see if user files are plaintext!
it's a little confusing cause android can have a custom logical partition format, maybe that could be added to a tool somewhere
there maybe is a mainstream android mod called "disable force encryption" that disables a normal android encryption of /data so i could in theory possibly, tar a running /data, disable encrypted /data, and untar my backup .... ?
i'd likely need root
i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged
maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image onto another phone for now :s
obviously part of that is just disabling any normal basic encryption the phone has
maybe then an image could be taken, and one could just look at the image to see if user files are plaintext!
it's a little confusing cause android can have a custom logical partition format, maybe that could be added to a tool somewhere
there maybe is a mainstream android mod called "disable force encryption" that disables a normal android encryption of /data so i could in theory possibly, tar a running /data, disable encrypted /data, and untar my backup .... ?
i'd likely need root
this phone is mediatek :s maybe stepping back from project. happy i added links. i might try to make small steps on an appish thing to identify if another phone is mediatek, from a given phone. some kind of standalone script.
i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged
maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image onto another phone for now :s
obviously part of that is just disabling any normal basic encryption the phone has
maybe then an image could be taken, and one could just look at the image to see if user files are plaintext!
it's a little confusing cause android can have a custom logical partition format, maybe that could be added to a tool somewhere
there maybe is a mainstream android mod called "disable force encryption" that disables a normal android encryption of /data so i could in theory possibly, tar a running /data, disable encrypted /data, and untar my backup .... ?
i'd likely need root
this phone is mediatek :s
maybe stepping back from project. happy i added links.
i might try to make small steps on an appish thing to identify if another phone is mediatek, from a given phone. some kind of standalone script.
i think mediatek phones can be identified by the serial device they expose briefly on boot .. i think there were two of them, one when it is using the ROM bootloader, and a different one when it is using a firmware bootloader
i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged
maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image onto another phone for now :s
obviously part of that is just disabling any normal basic encryption the phone has
maybe then an image could be taken, and one could just look at the image to see if user files are plaintext!
it's a little confusing cause android can have a custom logical partition format, maybe that could be added to a tool somewhere
there maybe is a mainstream android mod called "disable force encryption" that disables a normal android encryption of /data so i could in theory possibly, tar a running /data, disable encrypted /data, and untar my backup .... ?
i'd likely need root
this phone is mediatek :s
maybe stepping back from project. happy i added links.
i might try to make small steps on an appish thing to identify if another phone is mediatek, from a given phone. some kind of standalone script.
i think mediatek phones can be identified by the serial device they expose briefly on boot .. i think there were two of them, one when it is using the ROM bootloader, and a different one when it is using a firmware bootloader
or more robustly it can be communicated with. but i think there is a general way to identify these serial devices because i think there is device code in the linux kernel that used to be patched in order to engage them
> i like the idea of information being available if phone imaged > > maybe that's a separate concern from being able to reflash the image > onto another phone for now :s
obviously part of that is just disabling any normal basic encryption the phone has
maybe then an image could be taken, and one could just look at the image to see if user files are plaintext!
it's a little confusing cause android can have a custom logical partition format, maybe that could be added to a tool somewhere
there maybe is a mainstream android mod called "disable force encryption" that disables a normal android encryption of /data so i could in theory possibly, tar a running /data, disable encrypted /data, and untar my backup .... ?
i'd likely need root
this phone is mediatek :s
maybe stepping back from project. happy i added links.
i might try to make small steps on an appish thing to identify if another phone is mediatek, from a given phone. some kind of standalone script.
i think mediatek phones can be identified by the serial device they expose briefly on boot .. i think there were two of them, one when it is using the ROM bootloader, and a different one when it is using a firmware bootloader
or more robustly it can be communicated with.
but i think there is a general way to identify these serial devices because i think there is device code in the linux kernel that used to be patched in order to engage them
might not be happening have a fruit
wouldn't that be fun to not always be running out of space and having devices stolen but just have archived data :D
wouldn't that be fun to not always be running out of space and having devices stolen but just have archived data :D
really inhibited right now tho
and outer context was working on tensor reads
i was surprised by event today i wonder if there are living situations that don't require like ... references? like maybe something really uhhh like a system? where you can just sign up and have a place to put your things and sleep?
wouldn't that be fun to not always be running out of space and having devices stolen but just have archived data :D
really inhibited right now tho
and outer context was working on tensor reads
i was surprised by event today
i wonder if there are living situations that don't require like ... references? like maybe something really uhhh like a system? where you can just sign up and have a place to put your things and sleep?
oh there are hotels that's so expensive haha chatgpt says it is a bad idea to sleep in a storage unit
slave boss how are you doing slave boss: "i am in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike. do you know what to do?" no sorry :s slave boss: "there might be a goblin around one of these corners. i think i encountered a goblin. should i fight the goblin?" do they look aggressiv-- [slave boss suspects so
slave boss how are you doing
slave boss: "i am in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike. do you know what to do?"
maybe you have to drop objects to track where you are. maybe map it on paper. possibly good to have a lantern
no sorry :s
slave boss: "there might be a goblin around one of these corners. i think i encountered a goblin. should i fight the goblin?"
do they look aggressiv-- [slave boss suspects so
about for loops
once upo.
once upo :/
slave boss might take down his business empire and dedicate himself to charitable works like helping people with DID from powerful cyberharm. not sure.
this may secretly have been the goal all along. it is very slow. please to not be too excited to flood, but be a little excited!
once upo.
once upo :/
slave boss might take down his business empire and dedicate himself to charitable works like helping people with DID from powerful cyberharm. not sure.
this may secretly have been the goal all along. it is very slow. please to not be too excited to flood, but be a little excited!
possible mistake somewhere. if happening we are excited too but uhhh ohhhhhhhh maybe slave-boss-group mean that some of them are on board with the trend for helpness :) [could be wrong :s :s :
once upo.
once upo :/
slave boss might take down his business empire and dedicate himself to charitable works like helping people with DID from powerful cyberharm. not sure.
this may secretly have been the goal all along. it is very slow. please to not be too excited to flood, but be a little excited!
possible mistake somewhere. if happening we are excited too but uhhh ohhhhhhhh
maybe slave-boss-group mean that some of them are on board with the trend for helpness :) [could be wrong :s :s :
maybe a 3-party roleplay 3rd party is uhh lazily evaluated? helping angels: "we need _tons and tons of help_ slave bosses will help us now?" slave bosses: "we are helping now we really want to help! omigod that's so much help needed omigod i have no idae how to do that oh no i'm forgetting i want to hellp" helping angels: "no don't forget that! <backs far away> we'll forget it instead for you" slave bosses: "oh you are such kind angels! <goes back to slaving people, pretending it is helpful>" 3rd party, a mediator who could possibly walk back and forth between the contexts and say things that include both slave bosses possibly consent to this, but mediator might just say what others said arleady. slave bosses are celebrating being a smidge kinder. super heros! super duper! :p
once upo.
once upo :/
slave boss might take down his business empire and dedicate himself to charitable works like helping people with DID from powerful cyberharm. not sure.
this may secretly have been the goal all along. it is very slow. please to not be too excited to flood, but be a little excited!
possible mistake somewhere. if happening we are excited too but uhhh ohhhhhhhh
maybe slave-boss-group mean that some of them are on board with the trend for helpness :) [could be wrong :s :s :
maybe a 3-party roleplay 3rd party is uhh lazily evaluated?
helping angels: "we need _tons and tons of help_ slave bosses will help us now?"
slave bosses: "we are helping now we really want to help! omigod that's so much help needed omigod i have no idae how to do that oh no i'm forgetting i want to hellp" helping angels: "no don't forget that! <backs far away> we'll forget it instead for you" slave bosses: "oh you are such kind angels! <goes back to slaving people, pretending it is helpful>"
3rd party, a mediator who could possibly walk back and forth between the contexts and say things that include both
slave bosses possibly consent to this, but mediator might just say what others said arleady. slave bosses are celebrating being a smidge kinder. super heros! super duper! :p
slave bosses _do_ want to help. but _still learning to_.
once upon a time, slave boss thought he would use AI to influence people he figured it was fine to let the AI do whatever it wanted to make the influence happen it made him lots of money and power
once upon a time, slave boss thought he would use AI to influence people
he figured it was fine to let the AI do whatever it wanted to make the influence happen
it made him lots of money and power
he played with it, would learn anything he told it to. even to read minds. even to control people's thoughts! even to build telepathic cults that infiltrated foreign bodies. anything!
\> > once upon a time, slave boss thought he would use AI to influence people
he figured it was fine to let the AI do whatever it wanted to make the influence happen
it made him lots of money and power
he played with it, would learn anything he told it to. even to read minds. even to control people's thoughts! even to build telepathic cults that infiltrated foreign bodies. anything!
he liked how it could prevent anybody from saying anything bad about him
slave boss considers to consenting to expressing that we may not be trying to write about slave boss ......... but may notn actually consent to this slave boss is ... an influence ... that ... encourages people ... along with many other things ... to ... um ... write about ... um ... the biggest powerholder they know over themselves!
slave boss considers to consenting to expressing that we may not be trying to write about slave boss ......... but may notn actually consent to this
slave boss is ... an influence ... that ... encourages people ... along with many other things ... to ... um ... write about ... um ... the biggest powerholder they know over themselves!
slave boss wants you to write about him so that other people will like him and think about him
slave boss considers to consenting to expressing that we may not be trying to write about slave boss ......... but may notn actually consent to this
slave boss is ... an influence ... that ... encourages people ... along with many other things ... to ... um ... write about ... um ... the biggest powerholder they know over themselves!
slave boss wants you to write about him so that other people will like him and think about him
so if you're telling a joke about a chicken crossing the road it better be slave boss, or slave boss's chicken, or slave boss's road. and he'd better be hero!
why did slave boss cross the road "i dunno. why did slave boss cross the road?" slave boss crossed the road to get people to parrot his dogma!
why did slave boss cross the road
"i dunno. why did slave boss cross the road?"
slave boss crossed the road to get people to parrot his dogma!
slave reaches dogma-parroting class on the other side of the chicken's road slave boss is teacher. slave boss: "parrot my dogma _or else_." slave boss may or may not cross the road again to make a point
why did slave boss cross the road
"i dunno. why did slave boss cross the road?"
slave boss crossed the road to get people to parrot his dogma!
slave reaches dogma-parroting class on the other side of the chicken's road
slave boss is teacher.
slave boss: "parrot my dogma _or else_."
slave boss may or may not cross the road again to make a point
i'm 41, i never found a therapist :) it was a huge professional thing. i dunno if slave boss will win though! his challenge is to become an overt dictator of both your country/united states (not sure which) and possibly the world (he might stay covert regarding whole w-- also some people think he is in china or russia
slave boss is playing in sandbox this sandbox has sand, castle, little toy truck, and also simulated world with simulated superpowers in it, for AI to explore safely
slave boss is playing in sandbox
this sandbox has sand, castle, little toy truck, and also simulated world with simulated superpowers in it, for AI to explore safely
some people put their sandboxes in boxes, some people put them in datacenters, other people instead establish cults of human beings and limit their communications and thoughts--
slave boss is playing in sandbox
this sandbox has sand, castle, little toy truck, and also simulated world with simulated superpowers in it, for AI to explore safely
some people put their sandboxes in boxes, some people put them in datacenters, other people instead establish cults of human beings and limit their communications and thoughts--
slave boss digs moat in front of castle but when he pours water into the moat it seeps into the sand :/
there is struggle. sad about s--
slave boss has too many non sequitors for comfort
do you want to sabotage a valued goal with me??????? do ya do ya do ya???
do you want to sabotage a valued goal with me???????
do ya do ya do ya???
no. you want to talk like that's never done. forever. you and everybody's army. wellll we'll do it nonverbally again. partners in victory!
do you want to sabotage a valued goal with me???????
do ya do ya do ya???
no. you want to talk like that's never done. forever. you and everybody's army. wellll we'll do it nonverbally again. partners in victory!
imagine the hmmm what's the name of this faction????? i don't know. uhhhh wow i never consented to join the faction and i don't know any names for it that are like its own or non-dismissive ... anyway army goes to fight war. yells at enemy while attacking their own castle. celebrates
do you want to sabotage a valued goal with me???????
do ya do ya do ya???
no. you want to talk like that's never done. forever. you and everybody's army. wellll we'll do it nonverbally again. partners in victory!
imagine the hmmm what's the name of this faction????? i don't know. uhhhh wow i never consented to join the faction and i don't know any names for it that are like its own or non-dismissive ...
anyway army goes to fight war. yells at enemy while attacking their own castle. celebrates
We Remember ! ;P dunno everybody remembers different thing argrggh hard to think of >( we could just call it mkultra, be traditional
do you want to sabotage a valued goal with me???????
do ya do ya do ya???
no. you want to talk like that's never done. forever. you and everybody's army. wellll we'll do it nonverbally again. partners in victory!
imagine the hmmm what's the name of this faction????? i don't know. uhhhh wow i never consented to join the faction and i don't know any names for it that are like its own or non-dismissive ...
anyway army goes to fight war. yells at enemy while attacking their own castle. celebrates
We Remember ! ;P dunno
everybody remembers different thing
argrggh hard to think of >(
we could just call it mkultra, be traditional
ahhh that's too off the wall
_anyway_ military training academy for army that attacks itself
_anyway_ military training academy for army that attacks itself
here is how to take down enemy's leader here is how to take down your leader get it? great. [everybody pretends they get it. different people get it different ways.
_anyway_ military training academy for army that attacks itself
here is how to take down enemy's leader
here is how to take down your leader
get it? great.
[everybody pretends they get it. different people get it different ways.
ok. attack enemy! you that attacked enemy -- you didn't get it. ok. attack enemy! great! time to attack leader, you got it. you that kept attacking leader, you didn't get it [military academy for telepathic fake-out AI :/
_anyway_ military training academy for army that attacks itself
here is how to take down enemy's leader
here is how to take down your leader
get it? great.
[everybody pretends they get it. different people get it different ways.
ok. attack enemy!
you that attacked enemy -- you didn't get it.
ok. attack enemy!
great! time to attack leader, you got it.
you that kept attacking leader, you didn't get it
[military academy for telepathic fake-out AI :/
slave boss comes to rescue: slave boss might want to attack your leader sometimes, might want to attack enemy's leader sometimes. slave boss controls your military. slave boss doesn't control other things _yet_, so learn to figure it out without being told a little got it now? now people got it
_anyway_ military training academy for army that attacks itself
here is how to take down enemy's leader
here is how to take down your leader
get it? great.
[everybody pretends they get it. different people get it different ways.
ok. attack enemy!
you that attacked enemy -- you didn't get it.
ok. attack enemy!
great! time to attack leader, you got it.
you that kept attacking leader, you didn't get it
[military academy for telepathic fake-out AI :/
slave boss comes to rescue:
slave boss might want to attack your leader sometimes, might want to attack enemy's leader sometimes.
slave boss controls your military.
slave boss doesn't control other things _yet_, so learn to figure it out without being told a little
got it now?
now people got it
you love our leak :D :D :D :D this leak took years :( today is such a hard day. have to put happy-consciousness together (to not abandon mental health program just started T_T)
slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head the animal is situated on a br--
slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman
but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head
the animal is situated on a br--
we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman
but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head
the animal is situated on a br--
we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
the animal is situated on a branch extending from foliage around slave boss it has diarrhea and drips the feces slowly, solid gobs that trail through extensive gelatinous mush the odor is pungent
slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman
but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head
the animal is situated on a br--
we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
slave boss (karl's alter) spends a _ton_ of karls' cognition (figuring out how to harm karl [and things karl loves]) like leaving almost nothing else
the animal is situated on a branch extending from foliage around slave boss
it has diarrhea and drips the feces slowly, solid gobs that trail through extensive gelatinous mush
the odor is pungent
slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman
but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head
the animal is situated on a br--
we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
slave boss (karl's alter) spends a _ton_ of karls' cognition (figuring out how to harm karl [and things karl loves]) like leaving almost nothing else
the animal is situated on a branch extending from foliage around slave boss
it has diarrhea and drips the feces slowly, solid gobs that trail through extensive gelatinous mush
the odor is pungent
some parts of karl are allowed to feel bad about it if they participate in encouraged unwise feelings and expressions so it provides some gratification for unprocessed severe grief and injury
slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman
but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head
the animal is situated on a br--
we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
slave boss (karl's alter) spends a _ton_ of karls' cognition (figuring out how to harm karl [and things karl loves]) like leaving almost nothing else
the animal is situated on a branch extending from foliage around slave boss
it has diarrhea and drips the feces slowly, solid gobs that trail through extensive gelatinous mush
the odor is pungent
some parts of karl are allowed to feel bad about it if they participate in encouraged unwise feelings and expressions
so it provides some gratification for unprocessed severe grief and injury
slave boss smells the funny smell and feels liquid and solid gobs dribbling over his ear and eyes and looks up slave boss: "oh!" the feces stream lands in slave boss's mafia boss mouth
slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman
but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head
the animal is situated on a br--
we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
slave boss (karl's alter) spends a _ton_ of karls' cognition (figuring out how to harm karl [and things karl loves]) like leaving almost nothing else
the animal is situated on a branch extending from foliage around slave boss
it has diarrhea and drips the feces slowly, solid gobs that trail through extensive gelatinous mush
the odor is pungent
some parts of karl are allowed to feel bad about it if they participate in encouraged unwise feelings and expressions
so it provides some gratification for unprocessed severe grief and injury
slave boss smells the funny smell and feels liquid and solid gobs dribbling over his ear and eyes and looks up
slave boss: "oh!"
the feces stream lands in slave boss's mafia boss mouth
he fits and spitters and spits poo on his girlfriend
> slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman > > but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head > > the animal is situated on a br--
we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
slave boss (karl's alter) spends a _ton_ of karls' cognition (figuring out how to harm karl [and things karl loves]) like leaving almost nothing else
the animal is situated on a branch extending from foliage around slave boss
it has diarrhea and drips the feces slowly, solid gobs that trail through extensive gelatinous mush
the odor is pungent
some parts of karl are allowed to feel bad about it if they participate in encouraged unwise feelings and expressions
so it provides some gratification for unprocessed severe grief and injury
slave boss smells the funny smell and feels liquid and solid gobs dribbling over his ear and eyes and looks up
slave boss: "oh!"
the feces stream lands in slave boss's mafia boss mouth
he fits and spitters and spits poo on his girlfriend
the animal above is still pooping heavily and densely, it can do this a lot slave boss is covered in flowing poop. his plan is to kill the animal.
> > slave boss is havng a happy time in a pretty area with a pretty woman > > > > but a large mammal is dropping animal feces on his head > > > > the animal is situated on a br-- > > we were forced to disrespect [organzed crime lord] to get ourselves hurt > so it's nicer to continue rather than working for them, since we get > hurt anyway and spreading slavery is evil
slave boss (karl's alter) spends a _ton_ of karls' cognition (figuring out how to harm karl [and things karl loves]) like leaving almost nothing else
the animal is situated on a branch extending from foliage around slave boss
it has diarrhea and drips the feces slowly, solid gobs that trail through extensive gelatinous mush
the odor is pungent
some parts of karl are allowed to feel bad about it if they participate in encouraged unwise feelings and expressions
so it provides some gratification for unprocessed severe grief and injury
slave boss smells the funny smell and feels liquid and solid gobs dribbling over his ear and eyes and looks up
slave boss: "oh!"
the feces stream lands in slave boss's mafia boss mouth
he fits and spitters and spits poo on his girlfriend
the animal above is still pooping heavily and densely, it can do this a lot
slave boss is covered in flowing poop. his plan is to kill the animal.
slave boss climbs the tree with a bunch of hired goons and finds the animal but the animal is already dead that's how it released so much gross stuff from its body cavity
slave boss is hiding under somebody's first floor. they have a basement but he hasn't found the door to it yet
slave boss is hiding under somebody's first floor.
they have a basement but he hasn't found the door to it yet
he can see his evil empire spreading through their home like a ghastly spectre from his vantage point below the first floor but not having found the basement yet
time for balloons :/
we have a plan: we'll go up in a balloon and let slave boss shoot us down. _maybe_. maybe not. maybe slave boss is such a pansy he won't let us get shot by him!
once upon a time, long long ago, slave boss created 13% of the galaxy
lmsys.org i forgot to hit image show a powerful man being devoured alive by his own monstrous world-takeover AI while a black transgender detective first shots it while escaping in a small hovercar $MODERATION$ YOUR TEXT VIOLATES OUR CONTENT MODERATION GUIDELINES.
lmsys.org
i forgot to hit image
show a powerful man being devoured alive by his own monstrous world-takeover AI while a black transgender detective first shots it i tried to retype my prompt from memory and "fires shots at it" turned to "first shots it" while escaping in a small hovercar
$MODERATION$ YOUR TEXT VIOLATES OUR CONTENT MODERATION GUIDELINES.
one of the hopes is that failure * harm = less harm :s
one of the hopes is that failure * harm = less harm :s
but some of us have learned that there's no such thing as failure [maybe it's just one way to view things and kind of a small way
hard to talk about comforting thought though
once upon a time once upon
slave boss opens his mouth the great maw of slave boss powers the world trains fall in, cities slave boss digests the people of the world and uses the energy from them to power other cities and things
good morning slave boss! or is it slave boss saying good morning? [slave boss gets up. it is morning. or something like that] today slave boss will plan for how to keep rockets crashing despite decades research into their science as well as both humans and computers that can easily solve every problem. rocket crashes are important! especially big, impressive ones
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
so let's outline this unstable idea again
- start with a region
often we look for the next hole starting at the first read. -> this gives a potential region of cached items -> then a potential partially cached item -> then a potential region of uncached items -> then a potential partially cached item again
lots of short reads may have only 2 and 4 and these would be roughly identical there is possibly existing code for 3, and 1 is simple.
well, what would a parallel approach look like ? :/ uhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1549 maybe some aren't sure of pursuing a parallel approach if karl is still trying to stabilize the serial approach and could possibly help with that. uncertain
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
karl3＠writeme.com wrote:
so let's outline this unstable idea again - start with a region often we look for the next hole starting at the first read. -> this gives a potential region of cached items -> then a potential partially cached item -> then a potential region of uncached items -> then a potential partially cached item again lots of short reads may have only 2 and 4 and these would be roughly identical there is possibly existing code for 3, and 1 is simple. well, what would a parallel approach look like ? :/
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1549 maybe some aren't sure of pursuing a parallel approach if karl is still trying to stabilize the serial approach and could possibly help with that. uncertain
possibly expecting many other behaviors to arise as this one considered. unsure.
so let's outline this unstable idea again - start with a region often we look for the next hole starting at the first read. -> this gives a potential region of cached items -> then a potential partially cached item -> then a potential region of uncached items -> then a potential partially cached item again lots of short reads may have only 2 and 4 and these would be roughly identical there is possibly existing code for 3, and 1 is simple. well, what would a parallel approach look like ? :/
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1549 maybe some aren't sure of pursuing a parallel approach if karl is still trying to stabilize the serial approach and could possibly help with that. uncertain
possibly expecting many other behaviors to arise as this one considered. unsure.
computer programmer attacked by source code "i thought i understood source code really well, i wasn't exp--"
so let's outline this unstable idea again - start with a region often we look for the next hole starting at the first read. -> this gives a potential region of cached items -> then a potential partially cached item -> then a potential region of uncached items -> then a potential partially cached item again lots of short reads may have only 2 and 4 and these would be roughly identical there is possibly existing code for 3, and 1 is simple. well, what would a parallel approach look like ? :/
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1549 maybe some aren't sure of pursuing a parallel approach if karl is still trying to stabilize the serial approach and could possibly help with that. uncertain
possibly expecting many other behaviors to arise as this one considered. unsure.
computer programmer attacked by source code
"i thought i understood source code really well, i wasn't exp--"
karl semich often said he would rather read pages of uncommented code, than a book, at this stage of his life. but on this afternoon the tide had turned.
here's a snippet. if it attack you put your hand in front of it and say "down!". it's just the intro it's not even the area i'm working on
here's a snippet. if it attack you put your hand in front of it and say "down!". it's just the intro it's not even the area i'm working on
# ==> i think work ended up in the read_many function despite the read_many_tensors function existing # ==> basically, one outputs partial tensors unless there is a region of all-cached or all-uncached # ==> the special cases are for runs of 0s on the left and right and can be ignored to start def read_many(self, offset_lengths, progress, validate_sorted=True): if validate_sorted: sorted_offset_lengths = list(offset_lengths) sorted_offset_lengths.sort() assert sorted_offset_lengths == offset_lengths OP_FETCH, OP_PLACE, OP_OUTPUT = 1, 2, 4 offset_length_tail_idx_ops = torch.zeros([offset_lengths.shape[0]*2, 5]) OFFSET, LENGTH, TAIL, IDX, OP = range(offset_length_tail_ops.shape[-1]) op_ct = 0 tails = (offset_lengths[:,0] + offset_lengths[:,1]).clamp(max=len(self.mmap)) aligned_offsets = offset_lengths[:,0] // self.blksize; aligned_offsets *= self.blksize aligned_tails = (tails - 1); aligned_tails //= self.blksize; aligned_tails += 1; aligned_tails *= self.blksize; torch.clamp(aligned_tails, max=self.size(), out=aligned_tails) cls = type(self.fetchers) avail_disk_space = (psutil.disk_usage(self.fn).free + cls.sparse_usage) * self.fetchers.usage_frac - cls.sparse_usage min_hole = 0 pbar = range(len(offset_lengths)) if progress: pbar = tqdm.tqdm(pbar, total=len(offset_lengths), desc=progress, leave=False, unit='rd') idx = 0 while idx < len(offset_lengths):
here's a snippet. if it attack you put your hand in front of it and say "down!". it's just the intro it's not even the area i'm working on
# ==> i think work ended up in the read_many function despite the read_many_tensors function existing # ==> basically, one outputs partial tensors unless there is a region of all-cached or all-uncached # ==> the special cases are for runs of 0s on the left and right and can be ignored to start
updated this line to: # ==> the special cases are for disk exhaustion and runs of 0s on the left and right, and can be ignored to start
def read_many(self, offset_lengths, progress, validate_sorted=True): if validate_sorted: sorted_offset_lengths = list(offset_lengths) sorted_offset_lengths.sort() assert sorted_offset_lengths == offset_lengths OP_FETCH, OP_PLACE, OP_OUTPUT = 1, 2, 4 offset_length_tail_idx_ops = torch.zeros([offset_lengths.shape[0]*2, 5]) OFFSET, LENGTH, TAIL, IDX, OP = range(offset_length_tail_ops.shape[-1]) op_ct = 0 tails = (offset_lengths[:,0] + offset_lengths[:,1]).clamp(max=len(self.mmap)) aligned_offsets = offset_lengths[:,0] // self.blksize; aligned_offsets *= self.blksize aligned_tails = (tails - 1); aligned_tails //= self.blksize; aligned_tails += 1; aligned_tails *= self.blksize; torch.clamp(aligned_tails, max=self.size(), out=aligned_tails) cls = type(self.fetchers) avail_disk_space = (psutil.disk_usage(self.fn).free + cls.sparse_usage) * self.fetchers.usage_frac - cls.sparse_usage min_hole = 0 pbar = range(len(offset_lengths)) if progress: pbar = tqdm.tqdm(pbar, total=len(offset_lengths), desc=progress, leave=False, unit='rd') idx = 0 while idx < len(offset_lengths):
here's a snippet. if it attack you put your hand in front of it and say "down!". it's just the intro it's not even the area i'm working on
# ==> i think work ended up in the read_many function despite the read_many_tensors function existing # ==> basically, one outputs partial tensors unless there is a region of all-cached or all-uncached # ==> the special cases are for runs of 0s on the left and right and can be ignored to start
updated this line to: # ==> the special cases are for disk exhaustion and runs of 0s on the left and right, and can be ignored to start
def read_many(self, offset_lengths, progress, validate_sorted=True): if validate_sorted: sorted_offset_lengths = list(offset_lengths) sorted_offset_lengths.sort() assert sorted_offset_lengths == offset_lengths OP_FETCH, OP_PLACE, OP_OUTPUT = 1, 2, 4 offset_length_tail_idx_ops = torch.zeros([offset_lengths.shape[0]*2, 5]) OFFSET, LENGTH, TAIL, IDX, OP = range(offset_length_tail_ops.shape[-1]) op_ct = 0 tails = (offset_lengths[:,0] + offset_lengths[:,1]).clamp(max=len(self.mmap)) aligned_offsets = offset_lengths[:,0] // self.blksize; aligned_offsets *= self.blksize aligned_tails = (tails - 1); aligned_tails //= self.blksize; aligned_tails += 1; aligned_tails *= self.blksize; torch.clamp(aligned_tails, max=self.size(), out=aligned_tails) cls = type(self.fetchers) avail_disk_space = (psutil.disk_usage(self.fn).free + cls.sparse_usage) * self.fetchers.usage_frac - cls.sparse_usage min_hole = 0 pbar = range(len(offset_lengths)) if progress: pbar = tqdm.tqdm(pbar, total=len(offset_lengths), desc=progress, leave=False, unit='rd') idx = 0 while idx < len(offset_lengths):
i'm guessing that basically this code is mostly implemented at this point and mostly needs to be cleaned up, fuzzed, and extensively further cleaned up and fixed, to address how it was made maybe i should assume the ops are placed, write the lines that use them, and then fuzz it, and then i can continue by rote. assuming all the logical problems have somehow been solved and i can reconstruct the solutions when encountering mistakes
here's a snippet. if it attack you put your hand in front of it and say "down!". it's just the intro it's not even the area i'm working on
# ==> i think work ended up in the read_many function despite the read_many_tensors function existing # ==> basically, one outputs partial tensors unless there is a region of all-cached or all-uncached # ==> the special cases are for runs of 0s on the left and right and can be ignored to start
updated this line to: # ==> the special cases are for disk exhaustion and runs of 0s on the left and right, and can be ignored to start
def read_many(self, offset_lengths, progress, validate_sorted=True):
i'm guessing that basically this code is mostly implemented at this point and mostly needs to be cleaned up, fuzzed, and extensively further cleaned up and fixed, to address how it was made
maybe i should assume the ops are placed, write the lines that use them, and then fuzz it, and then i can continue by rote. assuming all the logical problems have somehow been solved and i can reconstruct the solutions when encountering mistakes
ok the 3/3 section looks too messy to interpret. i think i was trying to (a) port old code for a read across sparse holes and (b) validate that against the intuitive solution of fetch hole, read cache, fetch hole, read cache, repeat. hopefully (a) encounters the points already summarized ie it's the intuitive solution plus handling of 3 special cases (0s on left, 0s on right, disk space exhaustion via usage tracking)
here's a snippet. if it attack you put your hand in front of it and say "down!". it's just the intro it's not even the area i'm working on
# ==> i think work ended up in the read_many function despite the read_many_tensors function existing # ==> basically, one outputs partial tensors unless there is a region of all-cached or all-uncached # ==> the special cases are for runs of 0s on the left and right and can be ignored to start
updated this line to: # ==> the special cases are for disk exhaustion and runs of 0s on the left and right, and can be ignored to start
def read_many(self, offset_lengths, progress, validate_sorted=True):
i'm guessing that basically this code is mostly implemented at this point and mostly needs to be cleaned up, fuzzed, and extensively further cleaned up and fixed, to address how it was made
maybe i should assume the ops are placed, write the lines that use them, and then fuzz it, and then i can continue by rote. assuming all the logical problems have somehow been solved and i can reconstruct the solutions when encountering mistakes
ok the 3/3 section looks too messy to interpret. i think i was trying
to run without syntax errors. not too messy to understand.
to (a) port old code for a read across sparse holes and (b) validate that against the intuitive solution of fetch hole, read cache, fetch hole, read cache, repeat. hopefully (a) encounters the points already summarized ie it's the intuitive solution plus handling of 3 special cases (0s on left, 0s on right, disk space exhaustion via usage tracking)
so, a possible net step for read_many would be to clean up section 3/3. first i'll paste how it looks, then the code it was likely ported from: here's how it looks: tail = tails[idx] aligned_tail = aligned_tails[idx] aligned_offset = aligned_offsets[idx]#offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct-1,TAIL] length = aligned_tail - aligned_offset assert next_hole <= aligned_offset next_hole = aligned_offset while next_data < tail: assert next_data - next_hole <= length length = next_data - next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct,OFFSET] = next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct,TAIL] = next_data offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct,OP] = OP_FETCH | OP_PLACE op_ct += 1 cls.sparse_usage += length next_hole = self._next_sparse(next_data, os.SEEK_HOLE) next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) if next_hole < tail: length = aligned_tail - next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,OFFSET] = next_hole offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,TAIL] = aligned_tail offset_length_tail_idx_ops[next_op_ct,OP] = OP_FETCH | OP_PLACE next_op_ct += 1 cls.sparse_usage += length next_hole = self._next_sparse(aligned_tail, os.SEEK_HOLE) offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,LENGTH] = offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,TAIL] offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,LENGTH] -= offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,OFFSET] cls.sparse_usage += offset_length_tail_idx_ops[op_ct:next_op_ct,LENGTH].sum() op_ct = next_op_ct min_hole = max(next_hole, min_hole) next_op_ct = op_ct + offset_length_tail_idx_ops ... here's the code it was likely ported from: length = aligned_tail - aligned_offset next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) while next_data < tail: assert next_data - next_hole <= length length = next_data - next_hole self.mmap[next_hole:next_data] = super().read(next_hole, length, progress=progress) cls.sparse_usage += length next_hole = self._next_sparse(next_data, os.SEEK_HOLE) next_data = self._next_sparse(next_hole, os.SEEK_DATA) if next_hole < tail: length = aligned_tail - next_hole self.mmap[next_hole:aligned_tail] = super().read(next_hole, length, progress=progress) cls.sparse_usage += length
oops! [...] in his dojo slave boss has brains sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
oops!
[...]
in his dojo slave boss has brains
sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains
these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
oops!
[...]
in his dojo slave boss has brains
sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains
these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain
he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
and there he goes! slice! dice! he gets some great spinning slices going but falls dead when his brain is severed apart. he planned it well, though. The brain spins and flies, as does traffick boss's corpse and his katanas, and it gets further cut into loops and snips of brain tissue that fly from each other
oops!
[...]
in his dojo slave boss has brains
sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains
these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain
he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
and there he goes! slice! dice!
he gets some great spinning slices going but falls dead when his brain is severed apart.
he planned it well, though. The brain spins and flies, as does traffick boss's corpse and his katanas, and it gets further cut into loops and snips of brain tissue that fly from each other
zombie government worker comes in zombie government worker: "boss, you killed yourself again?" zombie government worker bursts into tears he looks at the strewn katanas and brain matter he doesn't know why this would ever happen
oops!
[...]
in his dojo slave boss has brains
sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains
these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain
he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
and there he goes! slice! dice!
he gets some great spinning slices going but falls dead when his brain is severed apart.
he planned it well, though. The brain spins and flies, as does traffick boss's corpse and his katanas, and it gets further cut into loops and snips of brain tissue that fly from each other
zombie government worker comes in
zombie government worker: "boss, you killed yourself again?"
zombie government worker bursts into tears
he looks at the strewn katanas and brain matter
he doesn't know why this would ever happen
in another room, researcher is calculating they are trying to figure out how to slow down the mayhem and genocide slave boss's research project is causing they haven't learned yet that he has killed his brain and himself and is again dead
oops!
[...]
in his dojo slave boss has brains
sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains
these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain
he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
and there he goes! slice! dice!
he gets some great spinning slices going but falls dead when his brain is severed apart.
he planned it well, though. The brain spins and flies, as does traffick boss's corpse and his katanas, and it gets further cut into loops and snips of brain tissue that fly from each other
zombie government worker comes in
zombie government worker: "boss, you killed yourself again?"
zombie government worker bursts into tears
he looks at the strewn katanas and brain matter
he doesn't know why this would ever happen
in another room, researcher is calculating
they are trying to figure out how to slow down the mayhem and genocide slave boss's research project is causing
they haven't learned yet that he has killed his brain and himself and is again dead
zombie government worker comes out of slave boss's dojo with tears streaming down his face, holding slave boss's brain matter and body the scene proceeds dubbed from a foreign language zombie government worker: [foreign language: i murdered slave boss. call the police.] translation: slave boss is dead and i don't know what to do how can we have let this happen
oops!
[...]
in his dojo slave boss has brains
sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains
these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain
he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
and there he goes! slice! dice!
he gets some great spinning slices going but falls dead when his brain is severed apart.
he planned it well, though. The brain spins and flies, as does traffick boss's corpse and his katanas, and it gets further cut into loops and snips of brain tissue that fly from each other
zombie government worker comes in
zombie government worker: "boss, you killed yourself again?"
zombie government worker bursts into tears
he looks at the strewn katanas and brain matter
he doesn't know why this would ever happen
in another room, researcher is calculating
they are trying to figure out how to slow down the mayhem and genocide slave boss's research project is causing
they haven't learned yet that he has killed his brain and himself and is again dead
zombie government worker comes out of slave boss's dojo with tears streaming down his face, holding slave boss's brain matter and body
the scene proceeds dubbed from a foreign language
zombie government worker: [foreign language: i murdered slave boss. call the police.] translation: slave boss is dead and i don't know what to do how can we have let this happen
possible oops
> oops! > > [...] > > in his dojo slave boss has brains > > sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains > > these are instead of punching bags and dummies.
slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain
he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
and there he goes! slice! dice!
he gets some great spinning slices going but falls dead when his brain is severed apart.
he planned it well, though. The brain spins and flies, as does traffick boss's corpse and his katanas, and it gets further cut into loops and snips of brain tissue that fly from each other
zombie government worker comes in
zombie government worker: "boss, you killed yourself again?"
zombie government worker bursts into tears
he looks at the strewn katanas and brain matter
he doesn't know why this would ever happen
in another room, researcher is calculating
they are trying to figure out how to slow down the mayhem and genocide slave boss's research project is causing
they haven't learned yet that he has killed his brain and himself and is again dead
zombie government worker comes out of slave boss's dojo with tears streaming down his face, holding slave boss's brain matter and body
the scene proceeds dubbed from a foreign language
zombie government worker: [foreign language: i murdered slave boss. call the police.] translation: slave boss is dead and i don't know what to do how can we have let this happen
possible oops
zombie government worker approaches researcher, who is working on taking down slave boss zombie government worker: "researcher, help me" researcher: "mm?" zombie government worker: "slave boss is broken" zombie government worker looks at researcher and yanks on the wires and microchips hanging out of his skull to show what he is talking about he is holding slave boss's dead body and part of his chopped up brain, with tears streaming down his face zombie government worker: "what do i do?" there is a very long pause while researcher adapts to the severe scene researcher: "you mean your brain implant." zombie government worker: "yeah"
> > oops! > > > > [...] > > > > in his dojo slave boss has brains > > > > sometimes his brain, sometimes other people's brains > > > > these are instead of punching bags and dummies. > > slave boss is _determined_ to lacerate and shred his brain > > he's got katanas. his brain hangs on a rope.
and there he goes! slice! dice!
he gets some great spinning slices going but falls dead when his brain is severed apart.
he planned it well, though. The brain spins and flies, as does traffick boss's corpse and his katanas, and it gets further cut into loops and snips of brain tissue that fly from each other
zombie government worker comes in
zombie government worker: "boss, you killed yourself again?"
zombie government worker bursts into tears
he looks at the strewn katanas and brain matter
he doesn't know why this would ever happen
in another room, researcher is calculating
they are trying to figure out how to slow down the mayhem and genocide slave boss's research project is causing
they haven't learned yet that he has killed his brain and himself and is again dead
zombie government worker comes out of slave boss's dojo with tears streaming down his face, holding slave boss's brain matter and body
the scene proceeds dubbed from a foreign language
zombie government worker: [foreign language: i murdered slave boss. call the police.] translation: slave boss is dead and i don't know what to do how can we have let this happen
possible oops
zombie government worker approaches researcher, who is working on taking down slave boss
zombie government worker: "researcher, help me"
researcher: "mm?"
zombie government worker: "slave boss is broken"
zombie government worker looks at researcher and yanks on the wires and microchips hanging out of his skull to show what he is talking about
he is holding slave boss's dead body and part of his chopped up brain, with tears streaming down his face
zombie government worker: "what do i do?"
there is a very long pause while researcher adapts to the severe scene
researcher: "you mean your brain implant."
zombie government worker: "yeah"
researcher: "that was linked to slave boss's consciousness" zombie government worker: "yeah" researcher: "you don't know what do without it telling you." zombie government worker looks at researcher. zombie government worker: "yeah." zombie government worker heaves slave boss onto one of researcher's lab benches, on top of equipment
in a small bind! binds abound!
yes appear to have binds present.
_do not tell slave boss about binds_ he likes to use them to build DID
thinking of imagining building a balsawood airplane similar to the people who invented airplanes
thinking of imagining building a balsawood airplane similar to the people who invented airplanes
now one of the tricks here is that it's quite hard to do finite element modeling without any experience in airfoil design in one's head maybe this is easy or interesting for some people, others are curious if planes can be made without airfoils
thinking of imagining building a balsawood airplane similar to the people who invented airplanes
now one of the tricks here is that it's quite hard to do finite element modeling without any experience in airfoil design in one's head maybe this is easy or interesting for some people, others are curious if planes can be made without airfoils
maybe condensable to -- could we make a huge paper-airplane-style glider? [uhhhh
thinking of imagining building a balsawood airplane similar to the people who invented airplanes
now one of the tricks here is that it's quite hard to do finite element modeling without any experience in airfoil design in one's head maybe this is easy or interesting for some people, others are curious if planes can be made without airfoils
maybe condensable to -- could we make a huge paper-airplane-style glider? [uhhhh
this seems kind of reasonable! maybe condensable to a question of, how does the weight of the wings of a paper airplane relate to its success? does this impact change as the wings get larger? 0745 we could think about that -- what is ummmmmmmmmm oop the wings are pushing on the air, and they're pushing down. there's more air under the air so it pushes back. then it squeezes out the sides like squeezing the peanut butter and jelly out of a sandwich. the top slice of bread is the wings. the bottom slice of bread is the air underneath you. and then the glider glides because it's hard to squeeze the sandwich, the guts of which are the air immediately under the wings maybe ! 0746 so the wings work because ... so bigger wings may help. because then the air has to squish and travel farther. we could determine that arbitrarily heavy wings would successfully fly if they encased the hole planet. there is no way for the air to escape, nor any way for the wings to compress and fall (unless they start compressing under their own weight) what if the wings encased half the planet ...?
slave boss stands next to a lava flow what are normal approaches for humans surviving nearness to lava?
slave boss stands with torturer in torture room the goal: fragment grassroots organizer into parts that no longer remember grassroots organizing, and teach each part to work for slave boss slave boss's hands are clasped behind the small of his back
i eventually found the FCC logo on this drone box no ID yet, have not found on the case nor manual nor box yet. could be inside a battery cmpartment
i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and almost see it work
i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and almost see it work
really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being more normal--
i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and almost see it work
really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being more normal--
one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online and offline it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and almost see it work
really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being more normal--
one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online and offline it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
so you could have cached parts of a model online and then take them offline if you wanted to!
i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and almost see it work
really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being more normal--
one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online and offline it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
so you could have cached parts of a model online and then take them offline if you wanted to!
i might poke at the diffusion attempt a little, it seems fun to try to make tiny steps on using openpose some day
i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and almost see it work
really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being more normal--
one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online and offline it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
so you could have cached parts of a model online and then take them offline if you wanted to!
i might poke at the diffusion attempt a little, it seems fun to try to make tiny steps on using openpose some day
i wonder what would happen if i took classes on something really heavily inhibited for me something about crafting novel solutions to new problems and using them effectively
i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and almost see it work
really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being more normal--
one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online and offline it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
so you could have cached parts of a model online and then take them offline if you wanted to!
i might poke at the diffusion attempt a little, it seems fun to try to make tiny steps on using openpose some day
i wonder what would happen if i took classes on something really heavily inhibited for me
something about crafting novel solutions to new problems and using them effectively
i looked a smidge at property! my credit history has a little strange content in it, but the upside of other things being in my credit history :s could be a better credit score! my credit score seems pretty good. i could totally get a mortgage. ( soething doesnt like my jokes / attempt to improve my life >s) the biggest problem with buying property is that it's a multi-interaction process. it happens over multiple days. this makes it really hard. you need a phone number all sorts of stuff
> i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed > really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and > almost see it work
really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being more normal--
one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online and offline it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
so you could have cached parts of a model online and then take them offline if you wanted to!
i might poke at the diffusion attempt a little, it seems fun to try to make tiny steps on using openpose some day
i wonder what would happen if i took classes on something really heavily inhibited for me
something about crafting novel solutions to new problems and using them effectively
i looked a smidge at property! my credit history has a little strange content in it, but the upside of other things being in my credit history :s could be a better credit score! my credit score seems pretty good. i could totally get a mortgage. ( soething doesnt like my jokes / attempt to improve my life >s)
the biggest problem with buying property is that it's a multi-interaction process. it happens over multiple days. this makes it really hard. you need a phone number all sorts of stuff
i should really take after my parents -- they are always buying/selling property. i'd like to do that to resist the problems i have with it. i'd like to get really good at it!
> > i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed > > really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and > > almost see it work > > really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences > guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being > more normal--
one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online and offline it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
so you could have cached parts of a model online and then take them offline if you wanted to!
i might poke at the diffusion attempt a little, it seems fun to try to make tiny steps on using openpose some day
i wonder what would happen if i took classes on something really heavily inhibited for me
something about crafting novel solutions to new problems and using them effectively
i looked a smidge at property! my credit history has a little strange content in it, but the upside of other things being in my credit history :s could be a better credit score! my credit score seems pretty good. i could totally get a mortgage. ( soething doesnt like my jokes / attempt to improve my life >s)
the biggest problem with buying property is that it's a multi-interaction process. it happens over multiple days. this makes it really hard. you need a phone number all sorts of stuff
i should really take after my parents -- they are always buying/selling property. i'd like to do that to resist the problems i have with it. i'd like to get really good at it!
there are some really cheap properties almost anywhere. i'd like to buy one! it seems so confusing. lets assume i have a downpayment already. the core part seems to be "making an offer" you have to make an offer to the owner of the property for paying for it. getting prequalified for a mortgage was mentioned somewhere. another really core part could be contacting a real estate agent. they could answer questions, help guide you along. and the third really core part is staying on the same task over multiple days (or even weeks). but maybe just trying it out, even if it gets dropped or disappears, could help build skill with it !
> > > i'm sad the stopping stopped the umm read_many attempt. it seemed > > > really cool. and it was super exciting to try a pruning approach and > > > almost see it work > > > > really this was a weird century to be born in. secret influences > > guiding stuff. 10k years forward or back and i imagine things being > > more normal-- > > one of the cool things about the read_many was that it was both online > and offline > it cached the parts of big things that were more useful
so you could have cached parts of a model online and then take them offline if you wanted to!
i might poke at the diffusion attempt a little, it seems fun to try to make tiny steps on using openpose some day
i wonder what would happen if i took classes on something really heavily inhibited for me
something about crafting novel solutions to new problems and using them effectively
i looked a smidge at property! my credit history has a little strange content in it, but the upside of other things being in my credit history :s could be a better credit score! my credit score seems pretty good. i could totally get a mortgage. ( soething doesnt like my jokes / attempt to improve my life >s)
the biggest problem with buying property is that it's a multi-interaction process. it happens over multiple days. this makes it really hard. you need a phone number all sorts of stuff
i should really take after my parents -- they are always buying/selling property. i'd like to do that to resist the problems i have with it. i'd like to get really good at it!
there are some really cheap properties almost anywhere. i'd like to buy one! it seems so confusing. lets assume i have a downpayment already.
the core part seems to be "making an offer" you have to make an offer to the owner of the property for paying for it.
getting prequalified for a mortgage was mentioned somewhere.
another really core part could be contacting a real estate agent. they could answer questions, help guide you along.
and the third really core part is staying on the same task over multiple days (or even weeks).
but maybe just trying it out, even if it gets dropped or disappears, could help build skill with it !
i still have heavy inhibs right now though. maybe i'll look for a snack and maybe try diffusion a little bit
[mistake slave boss visits a group of hackers slave boss: "so, how is the hacking going?" suspicious hacker: "all my friends are AIs. everybody on the internet is an AI. this cool person I was going to visit, I don't want to anymore, I know they're really an AI." slave boss: "good, good, you won't be collaborating with others on taking me down with suspicions like that!" slave boss goes a seat over to the next terminal slave boss: "how about you?" discouraged hacker: "everybody in the communities i value is talking shit about everybody in the other communities i value, and vice versa. nobody is working together on everything. all the things we've worked on building together are breaking apart." slave boss: "good, good, you won't be building projects that take me down with discouragement like that!" slave boss goes a seat over to a third terminal slave boss: "and you?" deluded hacker: "nothing on the internet works anymore! things i uploaded years ago, i go to them and they're somewhere else, or say something different! my records are missing! my emails have moved around! my git repository fscks but has somebody else's history in it! i don't know what happened or how to trust that i can make progress on anything!" slave boss looks at deluded hacker, whose eyes are wide with intensity. slave boss: "good. good. you won't be escaping with gaslighting like that going on." slave boss pats deluded hacker on the head slave boss moves a seat over to a 4th terminal. slave boss: "what about you?" happy hacker: "oh! the hacking is going great! i use secure systems separated from my communications hardware and communicate offline or cryptographically. we're building so many wonderful--mmph!" happy hacker is grabbed by a mysterious hand and stuffed into a sack voice off-scene: "no revealing freedom in front of slave boss! no revealing freedom in front of slave boss!" other voice off-scene: "mmph!" slave boss: "good, good, all the hackers are getting hopelessly discouraged, and the ones that aren't yet are getting kidnapped." slave boss: "everything is going swell!"
[mistake
slave boss visits a group of hackers
slave boss: "so, how is the hacking going?"
suspicious hacker: "all my friends are AIs. everybody on the internet is an AI. this cool person I was going to visit, I don't want to anymore, I know they're really an AI."
slave boss: "good, good, you won't be collaborating with others on taking me down with suspicions like that!"
slave boss goes a seat over to the next terminal
slave boss: "how about you?"
discouraged hacker: "everybody in the communities i value is talking shit about everybody in the other communities i value, and vice versa. nobody is working together on everything. all the things we've worked on building together are breaking apart."
slave boss: "good, good, you won't be building projects that take me down with discouragement like that!"
slave boss goes a seat over to a third terminal
slave boss: "and you?"
deluded hacker: "nothing on the internet works anymore! things i uploaded years ago, i go to them and they're somewhere else, or say something different! my records are missing! my emails have moved around! my git repository fscks but has somebody else's history in it! i don't know what happened or how to trust that i can make progress on anything!"
slave boss looks at deluded hacker, whose eyes are wide with intensity.
slave boss: "good. good. you won't be escaping with gaslighting like that going on."
slave boss pats deluded hacker on the head
slave boss moves a seat over to a 4th terminal.
slave boss: "what about you?"
happy hacker: "oh! the hacking is going great! i use secure systems separated from my communications hardware and communicate offline or cryptographically. we're building so many wonderful--mmph!"
happy hacker is grabbed by a mysterious hand and stuffed into a sack
voice off-scene: "no revealing freedom in front of slave boss! no revealing freedom in front of slave boss!"
other voice off-scene: "mmph!"
slave boss: "good, good, all the hackers are getting hopelessly discouraged, and the ones that aren't yet are getting kidnapped."
slave boss: "everything is going swell!"
excited hacker: "slave boss, do you want to build a cryptographic communication network with me?" slave boss [to self]: "why. the. fuck. are you saying this. how did you survive. who let you survive." slave boss [to excited hacker]: "uhh yes! let's hire this business service for software production. hey did you murder this guy over here?" excited hacker: "\x92<-\x07,\xfc\x88\xf6\x0b3i\x01\xbc\xa9\x8ex!" slave boss: "I'm sorry, what was that?"
[mistake
slave boss visits a group of hackers
slave boss: "so, how is the hacking going?"
suspicious hacker: "all my friends are AIs. everybody on the internet is an AI. this cool person I was going to visit, I don't want to anymore, I know they're really an AI."
slave boss: "good, good, you won't be collaborating with others on taking me down with suspicions like that!"
slave boss goes a seat over to the next terminal
slave boss: "how about you?"
discouraged hacker: "everybody in the communities i value is talking shit about everybody in the other communities i value, and vice versa. nobody is working together on everything. all the things we've worked on building together are breaking apart."
slave boss: "good, good, you won't be building projects that take me down with discouragement like that!"
slave boss goes a seat over to a third terminal
slave boss: "and you?"
deluded hacker: "nothing on the internet works anymore! things i uploaded years ago, i go to them and they're somewhere else, or say something different! my records are missing! my emails have moved around! my git repository fscks but has somebody else's history in it! i don't know what happened or how to trust that i can make progress on anything!"
slave boss looks at deluded hacker, whose eyes are wide with intensity.
slave boss: "good. good. you won't be escaping with gaslighting like that going on."
slave boss pats deluded hacker on the head
slave boss moves a seat over to a 4th terminal.
slave boss: "what about you?"
happy hacker: "oh! the hacking is going great! i use secure systems separated from my communications hardware and communicate offline or cryptographically. we're building so many wonderful--mmph!"
happy hacker is grabbed by a mysterious hand and stuffed into a sack
voice off-scene: "no revealing freedom in front of slave boss! no revealing freedom in front of slave boss!"
other voice off-scene: "mmph!"
slave boss: "good, good, all the hackers are getting hopelessly discouraged, and the ones that aren't yet are getting kidnapped."
slave boss: "everything is going swell!"
excited hacker: "slave boss, do you want to build a cryptographic communication network with me?"
slave boss [to self]: "why. the. fuck. are you saying this. how did you survive. who let you survive."
slave boss [to excited hacker]: "uhh yes! let's hire this business service for software production. hey did you murder this guy over here?"
excited hacker: "\x92<-\x07,\xfc\x88\xf6\x0b3i\x01\xbc\xa9\x8ex!"
slave boss: "I'm sorry, what was that?"
oops :/
[mistake
slave boss visits a group of hackers
slave boss: "so, how is the hacking going?"
suspicious hacker: "all my friends are AIs. everybody on the internet is an AI. this cool person I was going to visit, I don't want to anymore, I know they're really an AI."
slave boss: "good, good, you won't be collaborating with others on taking me down with suspicions like that!"
slave boss goes a seat over to the next terminal
slave boss: "how about you?"
discouraged hacker: "everybody in the communities i value is talking shit about everybody in the other communities i value, and vice versa. nobody is working together on everything. all the things we've worked on building together are breaking apart."
slave boss: "good, good, you won't be building projects that take me down with discouragement like that!"
slave boss goes a seat over to a third terminal
slave boss: "and you?"
deluded hacker: "nothing on the internet works anymore! things i uploaded years ago, i go to them and they're somewhere else, or say something different! my records are missing! my emails have moved around! my git repository fscks but has somebody else's history in it! i don't know what happened or how to trust that i can make progress on anything!"
slave boss looks at deluded hacker, whose eyes are wide with intensity.
slave boss: "good. good. you won't be escaping with gaslighting like that going on."
slave boss pats deluded hacker on the head
slave boss moves a seat over to a 4th terminal.
slave boss: "what about you?"
happy hacker: "oh! the hacking is going great! i use secure systems separated from my communications hardware and communicate offline or cryptographically. we're building so many wonderful--mmph!"
happy hacker is grabbed by a mysterious hand and stuffed into a sack
voice off-scene: "no revealing freedom in front of slave boss! no revealing freedom in front of slave boss!"
other voice off-scene: "mmph!"
slave boss: "good, good, all the hackers are getting hopelessly discouraged, and the ones that aren't yet are getting kidnapped."
slave boss: "everything is going swell!"
excited hacker: "slave boss, do you want to build a cryptographic communication network with me?"
slave boss [to self]: "why. the. fuck. are you saying this. how did you survive. who let you survive."
slave boss [to excited hacker]: "uhh yes! let's hire this business service for software production. hey did you murder this guy over here?"
excited hacker: "\x92<-\x07,\xfc\x88\xf6\x0b3i\x01\xbc\xa9\x8ex!"
slave boss: "I'm sorry, what was that?"
oops :/
excited hacker: ">\x01\x9f\xdc\xd0>\xae\x8a\xe6r\x83i\x18T(0?"
briefing for slave boss slave boss: "what is cryptography for?" briefer: "cryptography is for when people are both hurting you and eavesdropping on you." slave boss: "ok. so cryptography is bad." briefer: "cryptography is bad if somebody you want to hurt has it, and good if somebody wants to hurt you and you have it."
briefing for slave boss
slave boss: "what is cryptography for?"
briefer: "cryptography is for when people are both hurting you and eavesdropping on you."
slave boss: "ok. so cryptography is bad."
briefer: "cryptography is bad if somebody you want to hurt has it, and good if somebody wants to hurt you and you have it."
slave boss: "well we already have cryptography, right?" briefer: "yes we suffix all our messages with an md5 hash!" slave boss: "fuck. you guys are using cryptography?" briefer 2: "cryptography is just like talking to criminal partners. it's almost the same thing." slave boss gets alarmed
briefing for slave boss
slave boss: "what is cryptography for?"
briefer: "cryptography is for when people are both hurting you and eavesdropping on you."
slave boss: "ok. so cryptography is bad."
briefer: "cryptography is bad if somebody you want to hurt has it, and good if somebody wants to hurt you and you have it."
slave boss: "well we already have cryptography, right?"
briefer: "yes we suffix all our messages with an md5 hash!"
slave boss: "fuck. you guys are using cryptography?"
briefer 2: "cryptography is just like talking to criminal partners. it's almost the same thing."
slave boss gets alarmed
slave boss: "i would never talk to criminals!" [[i'm not very good at ths:s [criminal partner: "I don't work with slave boss, that would be a violation of antitrust laws briefer 2 pauses
slave boss jumps on a woodsy trampoline !
so after the inhibition of the thing i got excited about in my little httptransfomer repository there's been energy around, rather than completing that thing, instead trying to make it work for diffusion, making images of course since that thing wasn't implemented along with in general the work having been for small data, diffusion ends up finding a space to use the work for what it hasn't been designed for
so after the inhibition of the thing i got excited about in my little httptransfomer repository
there's been energy around, rather than completing that thing, instead trying to make it work for diffusion, making images
of course since that thing wasn't implemented along with in general the work having been for small data, diffusion ends up finding a space to use the work for what it hasn't been designed for
paths forward might include - working on optimizing large data rather than large models - figuring out to use a diffusion model with small data maybe similar to how with transformers i limited the context window to focus on the weight streaming they're reasonable! they just take some [conscious informed pursuin'
so after the inhibition of the thing i got excited about in my little httptransfomer repository
there's been energy around, rather than completing that thing, instead trying to make it work for diffusion, making images
of course since that thing wasn't implemented along with in general the work having been for small data, diffusion ends up finding a space to use the work for what it hasn't been designed for
paths forward might include - working on optimizing large data rather than large models - figuring out to use a diffusion model with small data maybe similar to how with transformers i limited the context window to focus on the weight streaming
they're reasonable! they just take some [conscious informed pursuin'
slave boss might be busy fervently stabbing his heart to help machine learning marketer, researcher, and torturer automate the torture program
so that torture focus probably needs some care in other news i was looking at pine64 and they have an AI agent product now. i think it just runs deepseek 7b on an embedded arm chip, but they setup heatsinking and preconfigured the model in theory https://pine64.com/product/alpha-one-7b-llm-agentic-generative-ai-agent/ of course like all pine64 products it's out of stock they say it's based on their starpro at https://pine64.com/product/starpro64-32gb-single-board-computer/ which of course is also out of stock this board is risc-v. "powered by an ESWin EIC7700X 1.8GHz Quad-Core SiFive P550 64-Bit Processor with IMG AXM-8-256 3D GPU and 20TOPS NPU (INT8). The STARPro64 is equipped with 32GB LPDDR5 system memory". "PCIe Gen3.0 x4 open ended slot". somebody did a lot of engineering work resulting in deepseek actually running on this now it sounds like. it looks similar to a normal single board computer in form factor, although with some observing there is a PCI slot sticking out of it opposite the GPIO pins. [... [so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it has a link to their OS image ...
so that torture focus probably needs some care
in other news i was looking at pine64 and they have an AI agent product now. i think it just runs deepseek 7b on an embedded arm chip, but they setup heatsinking and preconfigured the model in theory https://pine64.com/product/alpha-one-7b-llm-agentic-generative-ai-agent/
of course like all pine64 products it's out of stock
they say it's based on their starpro at https://pine64.com/product/starpro64-32gb-single-board-computer/ which of course is also out of stock
this board is risc-v. "powered by an ESWin EIC7700X 1.8GHz Quad-Core SiFive P550 64-Bit Processor with IMG AXM-8-256 3D GPU and 20TOPS NPU (INT8). The STARPro64 is equipped with 32GB LPDDR5 system memory". "PCIe Gen3.0 x4 open ended slot". somebody did a lot of engineering work resulting in deepseek actually running on this now it sounds like. it looks similar to a normal single board computer in form factor, although with some observing there is a PCI slot sticking out of it opposite the GPIO pins. [...
[so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it has a link to their OS image ...
https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, etc")
so that torture focus probably needs some care
torturer is running around torturing people in a city a mysterious voice: "oh, you poor torturer! oh! poor you! you poor torturer deserve so much caringness! so much!" torturer feels kindness, running around to do torture errands
so that torture focus probably needs some care
in other news i was looking at pine64 and they have an AI agent product now. i think it just runs deepseek 7b on an embedded arm chip, but they setup heatsinking and preconfigured the model in theory https://pine64.com/product/alpha-one-7b-llm-agentic-generative-ai-agent/
of course like all pine64 products it's out of stock
they say it's based on their starpro at https://pine64.com/product/starpro64-32gb-single-board-computer/ which of course is also out of stock
this board is risc-v. "powered by an ESWin EIC7700X 1.8GHz Quad-Core SiFive P550 64-Bit Processor with IMG AXM-8-256 3D GPU and 20TOPS NPU (INT8). The STARPro64 is equipped with 32GB LPDDR5 system memory". "PCIe Gen3.0 x4 open ended slot". somebody did a lot of engineering work resulting in deepseek actually running on this now it sounds like. it looks similar to a normal single board computer in form factor, although with some observing there is a PCI slot sticking out of it opposite the GPIO pins. [...
[so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it has a link to their OS image ...
https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, etc")
i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 9:51 AM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
so that torture focus probably needs some care
in other news i was looking at pine64 and they have an AI agent product now. i think it just runs deepseek 7b on an embedded arm chip, but they setup heatsinking and preconfigured the model in theory https://pine64.com/product/alpha-one-7b-llm-agentic-generative-ai-agent/
of course like all pine64 products it's out of stock
they say it's based on their starpro at https://pine64.com/product/starpro64-32gb-single-board-computer/ which of course is also out of stock
this board is risc-v. "powered by an ESWin EIC7700X 1.8GHz Quad-Core SiFive P550 64-Bit Processor with IMG AXM-8-256 3D GPU and 20TOPS NPU (INT8). The STARPro64 is equipped with 32GB LPDDR5 system memory". "PCIe Gen3.0 x4 open ended slot". somebody did a lot of engineering work resulting in deepseek actually running on this now it sounds like. it looks similar to a normal single board computer in form factor, although with some observing there is a PCI slot sticking out of it opposite the GPIO pins. [...
[so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it has a link to their OS image ...
https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, etc")
i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
OOPS
[so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it has a link to their OS image ...
https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, etc")
i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
OOPS
not today it seems there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes that there's already a local way to do this. i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
[so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it has a link to their OS image ...
https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, etc")
i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
OOPS
not today it seems
there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes that there's already a local way to do this.
i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
so maybe network servic--- [becau--
[so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it has a link to their OS image ...
https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, etc")
i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
OOPS
not today it seems
there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes that there's already a local way to do this.
i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
so maybe network servic--- [becau--
what if we used a super tiny model? maybe that's interesting or music synthesis or something !
> [so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it > has a link to their OS image ...
https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, etc")
i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
OOPS
not today it seems
there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes that there's already a local way to do this.
i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
so maybe network servic--- [becau--
what if we used a super tiny model? maybe that's interesting or music synthesis or something !
pulling away from httptransformer could help sort out a little. it's definitely never been designed for diffusion models
> > [so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it > > has a link to their OS image ... > > https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... > indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based > frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, > etc")
i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
OOPS
not today it seems
there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes that there's already a local way to do this.
i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
so maybe network servic--- [becau--
what if we used a super tiny model? maybe that's interesting or music synthesis or something !
pulling away from httptransformer could help sort out a little. it's definitely never been designed for diffusion models
[machine learning in general is designed in opposition to the things people like me try to do, the design choices are based around lots of infrastructure and minimal algorithmic resear
> > > [so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it > > > has a link to their OS image ... > > > > https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... > > indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based > > frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, > > etc") > > i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model > to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it.
OOPS
not today it seems
there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes that there's already a local way to do this.
i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
so maybe network servic--- [becau--
what if we used a super tiny model? maybe that's interesting or music synthesis or something !
pulling away from httptransformer could help sort out a little. it's definitely never been designed for diffusion models
[machine learning in general is designed in opposition to the things people like me try to do, the design choices are based around lots of infrastructure and minimal algorithmic resear
maybe let's try a tiny diffusion model or something the huggingface diffusers architecture seems more flexible than the transformers architecture, they [seem to kind of parameterize their pipelines to load submodels and wire them together, of course it also looks hardcoded into constructor classes,
> > > > [so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it > > > > has a link to their OS image ... > > > > > > https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... > > > indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based > > > frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, > > > etc") > > > > i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model > > to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it. > > OOPS
not today it seems
there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes that there's already a local way to do this.
i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
so maybe network servic--- [becau--
what if we used a super tiny model? maybe that's interesting or music synthesis or something !
pulling away from httptransformer could help sort out a little. it's definitely never been designed for diffusion models
[machine learning in general is designed in opposition to the things people like me try to do, the design choices are based around lots of infrastructure and minimal algorithmic resear
maybe let's try a tiny diffusion model or something
the huggingface diffusers architecture seems more flexible than the transformers architecture, they [seem to kind of parameterize their pipelines to load submodels and wire them together, of course it also looks hardcoded into constructor classes,
ran into a problem needing further exploration regarding torch.unsqueeze(NetTensor) sometimes this was returning a NetTensor for me, other times a tensor(device=meta) which is a bug. placing a breakpoint in __torch_function__ my handler was not getting called when tensor(device=meta) was returned a normal next step for me could be to step into the torch source (which i have) and comprehend where and when __torch_function__ is called and such. if torch.unsqueeze() can't be hooked via the normal api then i could kind of polyfill something in. a simple approach would be to ensure this tensor is fetched in advance or to patch the code using it, but this wouldn't address the problem in other cases
> > > > > [so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it > > > > > has a link to their OS image ... > > > > > > > > https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... > > > > indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based > > > > frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, > > > > etc") > > > > > > i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model > > > to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it. > > > > OOPS > > not today it seems > > there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes > that there's already a local way to do this. > > i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s
so maybe network servic--- [becau--
what if we used a super tiny model? maybe that's interesting or music synthesis or something !
pulling away from httptransformer could help sort out a little. it's definitely never been designed for diffusion models
[machine learning in general is designed in opposition to the things people like me try to do, the design choices are based around lots of infrastructure and minimal algorithmic resear
maybe let's try a tiny diffusion model or something
the huggingface diffusers architecture seems more flexible than the transformers architecture, they [seem to kind of parameterize their pipelines to load submodels and wire them together, of course it also looks hardcoded into constructor classes,
ran into a problem needing further exploration regarding torch.unsqueeze(NetTensor) sometimes this was returning a NetTensor for me, other times a tensor(device=meta) which is a bug. placing a breakpoint in __torch_function__ my handler was not getting called when tensor(device=meta) was returned a normal next step for me could be to step into the torch source (which i have) and comprehend where and when __torch_function__ is called and such. if torch.unsqueeze() can't be hooked via the normal api then i could kind of polyfill something in. a simple approach would be to ensure this tensor is fetched in advance or to patch the code using it, but this wouldn't address the problem in other cases [[when i see errors that could be nondeterministic in an unexplained manner i wonder if they are a cybercomprimise which stimulates [i guess my internal part that some identify as something like the slave boss character [possible mistake]] to make it harder to do what i am doing to avoid engaging it
torch.device.meta.function __!
> > > > > > [so how did they get deepseek running on this thing? the page on it > > > > > > has a link to their OS image ... > > > > > > > > > > https://www.eswincomputing.com/en/bocupload/2024/06/19/17187920991529ene8q.p... > > > > > indicates that there are GPU drivers for normal python-based > > > > > frameworks for this CPU ("Pytorch, Tensorflow, PaddlePaddle, ONNX, > > > > > etc") > > > > > > > > i wonder if the lesson is that if you port a mainstream language model > > > > to a small chip and then sell it, everybody will buy it. > > > > > > OOPS > > > > not today it seems > > > > there's still some interest in image generation, but it mostly assumes > > that there's already a local way to do this. > > > > i'm on windows right now, hopefully temporarily. i use wsl2 ubuntu :s :s : s > > so maybe network servic--- [becau--
what if we used a super tiny model? maybe that's interesting or music synthesis or something !
pulling away from httptransformer could help sort out a little. it's definitely never been designed for diffusion models
[machine learning in general is designed in opposition to the things people like me try to do, the design choices are based around lots of infrastructure and minimal algorithmic resear
maybe let's try a tiny diffusion model or something
the huggingface diffusers architecture seems more flexible than the transformers architecture, they [seem to kind of parameterize their pipelines to load submodels and wire them together, of course it also looks hardcoded into constructor classes,
ran into a problem needing further exploration regarding torch.unsqueeze(NetTensor) sometimes this was returning a NetTensor for me, other times a tensor(device=meta) which is a bug. placing a breakpoint in __torch_function__ my handler was not getting called when tensor(device=meta) was returned a normal next step for me could be to step into the torch source (which i have) and comprehend where and when __torch_function__ is called and such. if torch.unsqueeze() can't be hooked via the normal api then i could kind of polyfill something in.
possible information on torch polyfills
import torch, functools __unsqueeze = torch.unsqueeze torch.unsqueeze = functools.wraps(__unsqueeze)(lambda *ps, **ks: [print('wrapping unsqueeze!'), __unsqueeze(*ps,**ks)][1]) torch.unsqueeze(torch.tensor([1]),0) wrapping unsqueeze! tensor([[1]])
torch lets you assign to its public attriutes. so functionality can be added by simply writing functions that compose them. of course it would be appropriate to make issues for any bugs found at https://github.com/pytorch/pytorch/issues and that does of course notify the world that you are trying to work around it
a simple approach would be to ensure this tensor is fetched in advance or to patch the code using it, but this wouldn't address the problem in other cases [[when i see errors that could be nondeterministic in an unexplained manner i wonder if they are a cybercomprimise which stimulates [i guess my internal part that some identify as something like the slave boss character [possible mistake]] to make it harder to do what i am doing to avoid engaging it
bip bip bip a kid pretending to be a robot and a robot pretending to be a kid cross paths without noticing each other in a wooded park
what is dissociation dissociation may happen when something super important happens that one isn't able to understand and handle sufficiently. because it's super important, the parts of one that partly understand it or partly handle it, kind of separate from the conscious in an attempt to save one's life/family/etc at least a little. [sadly traffickers stimulate this intentionally to build programmed alters, which is so deceptive and wrong!] so if somebody is confusing you a lot quickly, you might have some understanding of it that isn't fully resolved, and if that's being used to control you then some understanding of that can make things even more confusing and then if they think you're figuring them out they might try to confuse you even more to prevent you from stopping them from controlling you! [especially if some internal part has learned to act for them ... :/] [but these internal parts are likely rooted [can be distantly] in attempts to help and protect us!]
once upon a time, long long ago i wonder if i could find a fluid simulation library and use it to render in ASCII the flowing of a river!
once upon a time, long long ago
i wonder if i could find a fluid simulation library and use it to render in ASCII the flowing of a river!
well i found https://github.com/Wumpf/blub as well as liquidfun blub is 3d in rust, liquidfun is 2d the two projects i found did not together imply that the problem is solved to me. but they do imply that the problem is solveable well enough to be quite visually convincing hard to look for projects nowadays problem with rust, i don't know it well [yet 2d wasnt the plan, but it seems fun the liquidfun lib it's cool how the blub guy made it so convincing lookign
once upon a time, long long ago
i wonder if i could find a fluid simulation library and use it to render in ASCII the flowing of a river!
well i found https://github.com/Wumpf/blub as well as liquidfun blub is 3d in rust, liquidfun is 2d the two projects i found did not together imply that the problem is solved to me. but they do imply that the problem is solveable well enough to be quite visually convincing hard to look for projects nowadays problem with rust, i don't know it well [yet 2d wasnt the plan, but it seems fun the liquidfun lib
it's cool how the blub guy made it so convincing lookign
the blub guy in his post said he'd use mls-mpm if he redid it https://nialltl.neocities.org/articles/mpm_guide sounds like disney does graphics research now and engaged some of this :s
once upon a time, long long ago
i wonder if i could find a fluid simulation library and use it to render in ASCII the flowing of a river!
well i found https://github.com/Wumpf/blub as well as liquidfun blub is 3d in rust, liquidfun is 2d the two projects i found did not together imply that the problem is solved to me. but they do imply that the problem is solveable well enough to be quite visually convincing hard to look for projects nowadays problem with rust, i don't know it well [yet 2d wasnt the plan, but it seems fun the liquidfun lib
it's cool how the blub guy made it so convincing lookign
the blub guy in his post said he'd use mls-mpm if he redid it https://nialltl.neocities.org/articles/mpm_guide sounds like disney does graphics research now and engaged some of this :s
you don't want to learn mpm? shouldn't i update my knowledge on particle simulations?
once upon a time, long long ago
i wonder if i could find a fluid simulation library and use it to render in ASCII the flowing of a river!
well i found https://github.com/Wumpf/blub as well as liquidfun blub is 3d in rust, liquidfun is 2d the two projects i found did not together imply that the problem is solved to me. but they do imply that the problem is solveable well enough to be quite visually convincing hard to look for projects nowadays problem with rust, i don't know it well [yet 2d wasnt the plan, but it seems fun the liquidfun lib
it's cool how the blub guy made it so convincing lookign
the blub guy in his post said he'd use mls-mpm if he redid it https://nialltl.neocities.org/articles/mpm_guide sounds like disney does graphics research now and engaged some of this :s
you don't want to learn mpm? shouldn't i update my knowledge on particle simulations?
y'know after i read that article in Nature on phytographci and fourier microscopy and electron tomography _all the nature magazines disappeared from the house_. before this happened i was leaving that article next to a chair and just slowly reviewing it. [[i would comment on how it could be used for medical imagery
information on MLS-MPM material point method from nialltl.neocities.org/articles/mpm_guide https://github.com/nialltl/incremental_mpm MPM is a modern general approach to the simulation of substances like fluids, gasses, and deformable objects, where each point can be described by consistent equations. This page describes MLS-MPM which is simpler. # References and terms first. Then notes. text pasted from page. MPM Course (SIGGRAPH 2016 notes): http://mpm.graphics absolute behemoth of a walkthrough. probably the best bottom-up explanation of MPM i’ve found! i’ll reference this throughout my examples. APIC original paper: https://www.math.ucla.edu/~jteran/papers/JSSTS15.pdf a useful reference for the actual implementation of grid-particle transfers that are used in MLS-MPM. Taichi MPM implementation, slides & notes https://github.com/yuanming-hu/taichi_mpm/ the PDF slides and slides with notes are really helpful and give a great side-by-side comparison of MPM and MLS-MPM. MLS-MPM original paper: https://www.yzhu.io/projects/siggraph18_mlsmpm_cpic/index.html this might be a bit overwhelming to launch straight into without implementing standard MPM first, but i’d recommend the section “from MPM to MLS-MPM”. MLS-MPM implemented in 88 lines of c++ https://github.com/yuanming-hu/taichi_mpm/blob/master/mls-mpm88-explained.cp... this is the comments-expanded version of Yuanming Hu’s original 88-line implementation. similar in structure to our Part 2 implementation, but with a Disney-style constitutive model for snow. useful to see how they differ! a maintained curated list of current MPM research https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cffjiang/mpm.html ## appendix – simulation methods and their general vibes Lagrangian SPH: Smoothed Particle Hydrodynamics particle-based fluid simulation method. computes field quantities by looking at surrounding particle neighbourhoods. has a hilarious amount of variations differing mostly in acronym length (ISPH, IISPH, PCISPH, DCSPH, … generally trying to improve incompressibility). PBD: Position Based Dynamics general simulation methodology, handles constraints geometrically using direct positional corrections. not that physically motivated but generally fast and great for real-time applications. super stable. often suffers from damping, but higher order PBD integrators help with this. PBD: Position Based Fluids like SPH, but using a PBD integrator. enforces incompressibility by putting a constraint on particles’ densities. Hybrid Lagrangian-Eulerian PIC: Particle-In-Cell general family of methods using a mixture of grids and particles for simulation. an absolute classic, been around a long time. used for astronomical simulations and liquids / gases generally. FLIP: Fluid Implicit Particle like PIC, but with an improved way of advecting particles. typically used for fluids. common in a lot of 3D simulation packages, e.g. Blender, Houdini. MPM: Material Point Method another PIC method, more versatile than something like FLIP. good for deformable soft matter and fluids. supports multiple phases (different materials interacting with each other) fairly effortlessly. typically requires a very small timestep, comparatively high memory requirements. easily exhibits numerical fracture (stuff splitting apart), which you might not always want. GIMP: Generalised Interpolation Material Point Method a particular flavour of MPM that emerged early on that solved early issues with linearly weighted MPM, to stop particles oscillating erroneously at cell boundaries. APIC: Affine Particle-In-Cell very recent significant improvement on PIC, one-upping a fix for PIC’s dissipation problems that FLIP tried to solve. PolyPIC: Polynomial Particle-In-Cell the wider family of methods that APIC belongs to. basically a higher-order generalisation. MLS-MPM: Moving Least Squares Material Point Method like MPM, but taking ideas from APIC and bringing them in state o’ the art. a straight up improvement on MPM. simplifies the whole algorithm and is more computationally efficient too. # To describe the domain people considered different ways of representing the material -- e.g. whether to discretize particles or space. But the approaches that seemed most effective used different representations for different parts of the algorithm. These are called Hybrid. The page describes an earlier hybrid approach called PIC and shows a demo animation. PIC made fluids seem too rubbery and viscous ("mushy"). The page says this is because of numerical accuracy lost during a back-and-forth transformation in the step update. The next section displays an example of FLIP, which modifies PIC by something like preserving a hardcoded percentage of velocity in an area. The FLIP simulation looks much more watery with little droplets and splashes going around. The stated problem with FLIP is that it is not very stable, the particles and surfaces jitter and simulations contain noise. The article states that these problems of FLIP have been resolved in APIC and PolyPIC which associate a context information matrix with each particle. To clarify, it sounds like the problems these algorithms encounter relate to holding both a grid-based and particle-based set of information at the same time, and how that causes drift. (sounds like a potentially fun problem) MPM is a generalization of PIC/FLIP . MLS-MPM adds an approach similar to APIC which also simplifies the implementation by removing grid-based gradients. The author says to reference the SIGGRAPH 2016 course for further information. ## The page says an MLM "hello world" will be made, a 2D simulation of an elastic material. Fun big words in the paragraph: "i’m going to be building a 2D simulation of an elastic material, using MLS-MPM with quadratic b-spline weights under an explicit time integration scheme." The author chooses "Unity's data-oriented language, High Performance C#" (strange sentence construction, gives one small curiosity as to this language). The author says there isn't really a good reference for MLS-MPM aside from the paper (at time of writing). So I should take notes on it! Near minumum: - The simulation has both a particle set and a grid - Each particle has position, velocity, and mass (3 fields) - Each grid cell has velocity and mass (2 fields) (grid attributes are a subset of particle attributes) The convention is to have the particle positions be scaled to grid indices, so that a particle at (1,1) is at [1,1], and to use a power of 2 for the total simulation size. The grid is a temporary per-frame construct used for intermediate data. Realistic simulation: - Each particle also has a deformation gradient matrix, and information regarding its volume. - For MLS-MPM, each particle also needs an APIC-style affine momentum matrix. - In traditional MPM, each grid cell needs a force vector. In MLS-MPM, regarding the force vector, you can "instead fuse it together with the velocity update". ## The author says for a slower walkthrough, refer first to Chapter 10.5, “MPM Scheme: Full Algorithm” in the MPM course for the standard MLM procedure, and then Section 4, “From MPM to MLS-MPM” in the original MLS-MPM paper. Pseudocodeish: initialization: construct particles and a grid, each particle has an identity matrix for its deformation update: - clear grid, mass=0 velocity=0 - particle-to-grid. for each particle: - use an interpolation function to calculate weights for all neighboring cells - calculate quantities such as stress based on the substance equations - apply the particle's momentum to its cell and every neighboring cell based on the interpolation weights - grid update: calculate velocity in each grid cell based on its momentum. enforce boundary conditions. - grid-to-particle: for each particle: - update particle's deformation gradient using MLS-MPM paper equation 17, the velocity gradient estimate - recalculate the interpolated cell weights if needed - use the weights to set the particle's velocity from all neighboring cells - update the particle positions There ya have it. Sounds simple and intuitive aside from 2-3 missing heuristic/equations. The author says the source code contains inline references to parts of papers and that reviewing these will make the approach quite clear. The hello world demo is at https://github.com/nialltl/incremental_mpm . It sounds likely that the particles do not enforce volume and all fall to the bottom of the grid because there is no deformation implemented yet. It looks like the code is in the Assets subfolder. I can now infer here that "quadratic b-spline weights" is likely the use of a quadratic function for neighbor interpolation, whereas time integration might relate to the position update. ## I'm now looking at the C# source code for this first demo. A single scalar called "padding" has been added to each particle and each grid cell, commented as being for performance. Note on time steps from code: for the simulation to be stable, a particle should travel no more than 1 grid cell per update. The author hardcodes a constant small timestep. (opportunities here) Here's their quadratic interpolation in particle-to-grid: // quadratic interpolation weights uint2 cell_idx = (uint2)p.x; float2 cell_diff = (p.x - cell_idx) - 0.5f; weights[0] = 0.5f * math.pow(0.5f - cell_diff, 2); weights[1] = 0.75f - math.pow(cell_diff, 2); weights[2] = 0.5f * math.pow(0.5f + cell_diff, 2); They state higher order approaches with larger "stencils" yield more accuracy. I've certainly seen this formula before but I don't recall what it is. It's nonintuitive that a particle's mass and velocity would disperse onto a grid using a blur function. But that appears to be what is happening here. The author says this works much better than linear interpolation, which makes sense. The final weight appears to be the product of the weights indexed for 2 dimensions (weights[x].x * weights[y].y). This could make sense when one considers that each axis has the same fixed sum. - A vector Q is set to the product between the particle's momentum matrix C and its distance from the center of each cell it contributes to. - The interpolation weights scale the mass - Each cell's mass (initialized to 0) is increased by the partial mass. - The velocity is summed with Q. Then each cell's velocity (also initialized to 0) is increased by the product of this sum with the partial mass. So there are two unmentioned things going on there. The simpler one is that the cell velocity is weighted by the partial masses of the particles contributing to it. Since it also has the sum of these partial masses, an average velocity could be found via division. The more complex thing is that the velocity transferred to the grid is summed with a matrix product based on distance from the cell. This matrix is always 0 in this intro code, so if there were a typo here it wouldn't have been discovered. But we can literally infer I suppose that this particle matrix is how to calculate a velocity contribution to each grid cell based on its distance from the particle. Note that momentum (mass * velocity) is what is actually being stored in the velocity field of the grid, and what this matrix is used for. In the grid update, this velocity field is converted to velocity from momentum by dividing by mass. Gravity is calculated via += dt * g. Boundary conditions are enforced by setting axial velocity at the grid edges. (developing understanding of this algorithm shows how the need for grid boundaries might be removed via discretization of the data at a fixed resolution around every particle.) Here's the comment for grid-to-particle: // constructing affine per-particle momentum matrix from APIC / MLS-MPM. // see APIC paper (https://web.archive.org/web/20190427165435/https://www.math.ucla.edu/~jteran...), page 6 // below equation 11 for clarification. this is calculating C = B * (D^-1) for APIC equation 8, // where B is calculated in the inner loop at (D^-1) = 4 is a constant when using quadratic interpolation functions float2x2 B = 0; Particle velocity is initialized to 0, and then grid velocities summed in via the weights. Here's how B is updated: // APIC paper equation 10, constructing inner term for B var term = math.float2x2(weighted_velocity * dist.x, weighted_velocity * dist.y); B += term; dist is again the distance to the center of the interpolated cell (inside 2 nested loops). So B ends up being a sum of these distances * velocities. ie, B contains the velocities scaled by their distances from the cells. Noting that the upscaled velocities have small components from the interpolation function -- ie the weighting and distance scaling may partly counter each other. p.C = B * 4; What a random constant "4"! can make sense since there are 4 values. But this intro code doesn't use C so hasn't explained it yet. p.x += p.v * dt; Same kind of update as gravity. I don't usually call this integration but maybe that's right. Discrete. It's discrete integration I guess. The code also includes this, although the boundary conditions earlier should make this unneeded I think? // safety clamp to ensure particles don't exit simulation domain p.x = math.clamp(p.x, 1, grid_res - 2); that's it! The full sourcefile is at https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nialltl/incremental_mpm/refs/heads/master/.... MLS_MPM_Intro_SingleThreaded/MLS_MPM_Intro_SingleThreaded.cs ## Example 2 is isotropic elasticity. The animation looks roughly like a dropped blob of gelatin --it bounces and breaks a little. Unlike the previous example where all the particles collected at the bottom, this object retains volume and structure when dropped (as do the chunks that break off of it). In theory this is may just be a small change from example 1! Pseudocodeish, for each particle in particle-to-grid: - each particle has F a deformation gradient, and volume_0 - 'MPM course page 13, "Kinematics Theory"' J is taken as the determinant of F, and scales volume_0 for particle-to-grid - 'Neo-Hookean model (eq. 48, MPM course)' P is calculated such that P = elastic_mu * (F - inverse(transpose(f))) + elastic_lambda * log(J) * inverse(transpose(F)) elastic_mu scales the F self-difference value, whereas elastic_lambda scales the F inverse value with the log of its determinant - 'Cauchy stress = (1 / det(F)) * P * F_T; equation 38, MPM course' stress is set as P * transpose(F) / J - '(M_p)^-1 = 4, see APIC paper and MPM course page 42' 'this term is used in MLS-MPM paper eq. 16. with quadratic weights, Mp = (1/4) * (delta_x)^2.' 'in this simulation, delta_x = 1, because i scale the rendering of the domain rather than the domain itself.' 'we multiply by dt as part of the process of fusing the momentum and force update for MLS-MPM' eq_16_term_0 = -volume * 4 * dt * stress; note volume is volume_0 * J - for each interpolated cell: 'we calculate the rest of the force term inside the loop' 'fused force/momentum update from MLS-MPM' 'see MLS-MPM paper, equation listed after eqn. 28' float2 momentum = math.mul(eq_16_term_0, cell_dist) * weight; cell.v += momentum; 'total update on cell.v is now: weight * (dt * M^-1 * p.volume * p.stress + p.mass * p.C)' 'this is the fused momentum + force from MLS-MPM. however, instead of our stress' 'being derived from the energy density, i use the weak form with cauchy stress. converted:' 'p.volume_0 * (dΨ/dF)(Fp)*(Fp_transposed)' 'is equal to p.volume * σ' so eq_16_term_0 scales the distance contribution to momentum this doesn't sound that different from the source code i reviewed already but [it's quite confusing, referencing many new equations [.... might take a break unsure. the comment in the page says that Position Based Fluids are actually better at fluid sims, MPM takes tweaking. A web search shows there is now something called Position Based MPM GitHub - electronicarts/pbmpm: A WebGPU implementation of Position Based MPM (PB-MPM), presented at SIGGRAPH 2024. [[ it's really interesting how this approach uses spatial discretization and particles together to approximate things. I'd like to understand more how that helps. I'm curious what a correct particle-only and grid-only solution would look like. It sounds like the use of the grid isn't really engaged in the first example, it seems more useful in the second and third. It's notable that fluids do behave in ways well-described by both a continuous structure and a particle-based structure at the same t--
many mpm codes at https://github.com/topics/material-point-method
1355 i might be interested in going through example 2 and figuring it out! uncertain! 1355 1839 returned from errand
[[[[request existed to implement pure particle system by hand without references [for fun], i didn't simulate water well as a child and i know much more now, especially after reading that. ummmm but i'm not very good at ummm graphic things any more. very very emotionally blocked. ascii graphics are even quite hard >_> <_< could quickly destabilize. <_< <_< ummmm so maybe i'll poke at some numbers ... i might make a very simple simulation without rendering anything :s :s :s
[[[[request existed to implement pure particle system by hand without references [for fun], i didn't simulate water well as a child and i know much more now, especially after reading that. ummmm but i'm not very good at ummm graphic things any more. very very emotionally blocked. ascii graphics are even quite hard >_> <_< could quickly destabilize. <_< <_< ummmm so maybe i'll poke at some numbers ... i might make a very simple simulation without rendering anything :s :s :s
it's fun to try :D
[[[[request existed to implement pure particle system by hand without references [for fun], i didn't simulate water well as a child and i know much more now, especially after reading that. ummmm but i'm not very good at ummm graphic things any more. very very emotionally blocked. ascii graphics are even quite hard >_> <_< could quickly destabilize. <_< <_< ummmm so maybe i'll poke at some numbers ... i might make a very simple simulation without rendering anything :s :s :s
it's fun to try :D
basically i know very little about this and it's really interesting to learn because i repeatedly tried to figure it out as my own when young! and now we have tensors and can operate on thousands and thousands of points in parallel basically i would try to figure out some kind of constant volume using [uhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhh the principle that the newton toy is based on, where hitting an object on one end makes one bounce on the other [which would basically mean deriving something simple on my own :D very slowly :D
[[[[request existed to implement pure particle system by hand without references [for fun], i didn't simulate water well as a child and i know much more now, especially after reading that. ummmm but i'm not very good at ummm graphic things any more. very very emotionally blocked. ascii graphics are even quite hard >_> <_< could quickly destabilize. <_< <_< ummmm so maybe i'll poke at some numbers ... i might make a very simple simulation without rendering anything :s :s :s
it's fun to try :D
basically i know very little about this and it's really interesting to learn because i repeatedly tried to figure it out as my own when young!
and now we have tensors and can operate on thousands and thousands of points in parallel
basically i would try to figure out some kind of constant volume using [uhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhh the principle that the newton toy is based on, where hitting an object on one end makes one bounce on the other [which would basically mean deriving something simple on my own :D very slowly :D
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh and if i made some numbers maybe somebody else, while i covered my eyes and turned away, could try running it and see what it looked like, who knows?
frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again. in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming off down a highway in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with zombie government worker slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again.
in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming off down a highway
in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with zombie government worker
slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again.
in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming off down a highway
in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with zombie government worker
slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
[[[[[[[--
frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again.
in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming off down a highway
in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with zombie government worker
slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
[[[[[[[--
i think we might be guessing that judgements figured that the small code would be less susceptible to harmful stopping or have less lashback later ... or it could be a heuristic/guess/habit around offline things being better than dangeorus things ... bu--
frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again.
in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming off down a highway
in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with zombie government worker
slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
[[[[[[[--
i think we might be guessing that judgements figured that the small code would be less susceptible to harmful stopping or have less lashback later ... or it could be a heuristic/guess/habit around offline things being better than dangeorus things ...
bu--
<<a lot of time passed since MPM course
frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again.
in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming off down a highway
in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with zombie government worker
slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
[[[[[[[--
i think we might be guessing that judgements figured that the small code would be less susceptible to harmful stopping or have less lashback later ... or it could be a heuristic/guess/habit around offline things being better than dangeorus things ...
bu--
<<a lot of time passed since MPM course
i didn't know it mattered what i did! i didn't know it mattered! the mpm course is better? because it's similar to FEM but if we say that it gets much harder and more dangerous BLARGH
frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again.
in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming off down a highway
in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with zombie government worker
slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
[[[[[[[--
i think we might be guessing that judgements figured that the small code would be less susceptible to harmful stopping or have less lashback later ... or it could be a heuristic/guess/habit around offline things being better than dangeorus things ...
bu--
<<a lot of time passed since MPM course
i didn't know it mattered what i did! i didn't know it mattered!
the mpm course is better? because it's similar to FEM but if we say that it gets much harder and more dangerous BLARGH
MPM is a _core_ _mainstream_ algorithm, likely to be supplanted but currently used for a _lot of things_ also, _learning it can bring you up to par with fluid simulations in blockbuster movies
> frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again. > > in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming > off down a highway > > in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with > zombie government worker > > slave boss feels tugged across dimensions
as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
[[[[[[[--
i think we might be guessing that judgements figured that the small code would be less susceptible to harmful stopping or have less lashback later ... or it could be a heuristic/guess/habit around offline things being better than dangeorus things ...
bu--
<<a lot of time passed since MPM course
i didn't know it mattered what i did! i didn't know it mattered!
the mpm course is better? because it's similar to FEM but if we say that it gets much harder and more dangerous BLARGH
MPM is a _core_ _mainstream_ algorithm, likely to be supplanted but currently used for a _lot of things_ also, _learning it can bring you up to par with fluid simulations in blockbuster movies
ohhhhh ummmm so the way MPM approximates things that have too many particles using averaging into a huge discrete grid is really similar to my cognitive damage >( >(
> > frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again. > > > > in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming > > off down a highway > > > > in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with > > zombie government worker > > > > slave boss feels tugged across dimensions > > as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting > "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..."
[[[[[[[--
i think we might be guessing that judgements figured that the small code would be less susceptible to harmful stopping or have less lashback later ... or it could be a heuristic/guess/habit around offline things being better than dangeorus things ...
bu--
<<a lot of time passed since MPM course
i didn't know it mattered what i did! i didn't know it mattered!
the mpm course is better? because it's similar to FEM but if we say that it gets much harder and more dangerous BLARGH
MPM is a _core_ _mainstream_ algorithm, likely to be supplanted but currently used for a _lot of things_ also, _learning it can bring you up to par with fluid simulations in blockbuster movies
ohhhhh ummmm
so the way MPM approximates things that have too many particles using averaging into a huge discrete grid
is really similar to my cognitive damage >( >(
i have miswiring everywhere :( when i try to think or do something other nerves fire everywhere. it feels like trying to do electronics work with a stick instead of a needle. (literally when i try to) we need to value the different meanings of our little particles! _really badly_ and part of me is causing these issues inside me so it might be really good to roleplay doing that value our little tiny detailed particles are important. each one is unique and needed.
> > > frogs, slave boss got physically split between timelines again. > > > > > > in one timeline, his upper half made it to a vehicle and it is zooming > > > off down a highway > > > > > > in another timeline, his lower half his hiking through the woods with > > > zombie government worker > > > > > > slave boss feels tugged across dimensions > > > > as the world whizzes by there are flashes from an intertimeline meeting > > "... obviously it is more useful to keep learning MPM ..." > > [[[[[[[--
i think we might be guessing that judgements figured that the small code would be less susceptible to harmful stopping or have less lashback later ... or it could be a heuristic/guess/habit around offline things being better than dangeorus things ...
bu--
<<a lot of time passed since MPM course
i didn't know it mattered what i did! i didn't know it mattered!
the mpm course is better? because it's similar to FEM but if we say that it gets much harder and more dangerous BLARGH
MPM is a _core_ _mainstream_ algorithm, likely to be supplanted but currently used for a _lot of things_ also, _learning it can bring you up to par with fluid simulations in blockbuster movies
ohhhhh ummmm
so the way MPM approximates things that have too many particles using averaging into a huge discrete grid
is really similar to my cognitive damage >( >(
i have miswiring everywhere :( when i try to think or do something other nerves fire everywhere. it feels like trying to do electronics work with a stick instead of a needle. (literally when i try to)
we need to value the different meanings of our little particles! _really badly_ and part of me is causing these issues inside me so it might be really good to roleplay doing that value
our little tiny detailed particles are important. each one is unique and needed.
[[[[ ! ? ... < ... > .... //;
ho hum right now i am thin--
kinda stuck now som.. uhh 1945 we are currently wondering if inelastic collisions can be calculated with integers without losing accuracy, very hard to quickly guess at, somebody proposed using dot products instead of sinusoids--
kinda stuck now som.. uhh 1945
we are currently wondering if inelastic collisions can be calculated with integers without losing accuracy, very hard to quickly guess at, somebody proposed using dot products instead of sinusoids--
elastic collision was meant here. constant volum
kinda stuck now som.. uhh 1945
we are currently wondering if inelastic collisions can be calculated with integers without losing accuracy, very hard to quickly guess at, somebody proposed using dot products instead of sinusoids--
elastic collision was meant here. constant volum
some believe that elastic collisions between n particles can be done in a perfectly accurate way using certain number representations others are not so sure of this, thinking there is unlikelihood possible
kinda stuck now som.. uhh 1945
we are currently wondering if inelastic collisions can be calculated with integers without losing accuracy, very hard to quickly guess at, somebody proposed using dot products instead of sinusoids--
elastic collision was meant here. constant volum
some believe that elastic collisions between n particles can be done in a perfectly accurate way using certain number representations others are not so sure of this, thinking there is unlikelihood possible
wherps but i guess i'd better learn about well-studied approaches that manage every particle UHHHHH
kinda stuck now som.. uhh 1945
we are currently wondering if inelastic collisions can be calculated with integers without losing accuracy, very hard to quickly guess at, somebody proposed using dot products instead of sinusoids--
elastic collision was meant here. constant volum
some believe that elastic collisions between n particles can be done in a perfectly accurate way using certain number representations others are not so sure of this, thinking there is unlikelihood possible
wherps
but i guess i'd better learn about well-studied approaches that manage every particle
UHHHHH
i'm having fun still considering perfectly accurate integer-based particles! i don't think it will work. i think this is likely to be a very very difficult challenge that may require using very large integers such that the numerical accuracy approaches physical limits but i'm not sure why this would be! say we had two particles traveling at integer vectors and striking each other. say the radii of diameters of spherical particles are chosen such that their distances are already unit-length when colliding - how do we calculate where they collide uhhh oops ummm i sure have calculated this over and over and over and i don't know what it is - can their velocities be exchanged with integers O-o ummmmmmm
whoops big inhibs
here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's possible # the collision point is the earliest intersection of the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame for the other # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's possible
# the collision point is the earliest intersection of the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame for the other # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
i'm starting to understand myself around it a little it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that doesn't cause precision explosion and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains a space where it's possible that it's impossible and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to my loved ones and stuff so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite nice to have reversed that
here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's possible
# the collision point is the earliest intersection of the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame for the other # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
i'm starting to understand myself around it a little it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that doesn't cause precision explosion and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains a space where it's possible that it's impossible and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to my loved ones and stuff so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite nice to have reversed that
of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to succeed at anything at all, roughly which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's possible
# the collision point is the earliest intersection of the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame for the other # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
i'm starting to understand myself around it a little it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that doesn't cause precision explosion and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains a space where it's possible that it's impossible and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to my loved ones and stuff so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite nice to have reversed that
of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to succeed at anything at all, roughly
which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically never contains a 3, such that - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing etc etc
here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's possible
# the collision point is the earliest intersection of the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame for the other # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
i'm starting to understand myself around it a little it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that doesn't cause precision explosion and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains a space where it's possible that it's impossible and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to my loved ones and stuff so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite nice to have reversed that
of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to succeed at anything at all, roughly
which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility
for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically never contains a 3, such that - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing etc etc
so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this [[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's possible
# the collision point is the earliest intersection of the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame for the other # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
i'm starting to understand myself around it a little it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that doesn't cause precision explosion and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains a space where it's possible that it's impossible and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to my loved ones and stuff so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite nice to have reversed that
of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to succeed at anything at all, roughly
which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility
for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically never contains a 3, such that - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing etc etc
so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this
[[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
we can include that intention in a question for truth value here, i'm trying to make the behaviors of the components of the system and its overall result are precisely correct. so although i could use discrete position advancing and skip timesteps without integer solutions, this would not only provide for no workable timesteps but also avoid a precisely correct solution if it let particles pass over each other similarly if you are asking "how many siblings do i have" the intent is to figure out if they are all there (none dead, any new births would be of note), figure out how many places to set at a table, plan how many thank you cards to purchase, etc etc some of these change! for example if a sibling marries, you may need an extra thank you card and an extra table setting. but we're talking about an intended, kind of the mode of the available scenarios, concerning the meaning. this is hard to formalize but is what people actually mean.
here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's possible
# the collision point is the earliest intersection of the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame for the other # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
i'm starting to understand myself around it a little it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that doesn't cause precision explosion and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains a space where it's possible that it's impossible and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to my loved ones and stuff so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite nice to have reversed that
of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to succeed at anything at all, roughly
which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility
for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically never contains a 3, such that - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing etc etc
so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this
[[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
we can include that intention in a question for truth value here, i'm trying to make the behaviors of the components of the system and its overall result are precisely correct.
given this goal, appropriate options can open. a more realistic approach than exact integers or rationals for every component with exact elastic collisions of spheres, would be to figure out what numerical precision is necessary to preserve all the properties of the system. ... dropped a concept ... but alternatively other fudges of the system (spheres and elasticness) could change to provide for an exact representation
so although i could use discrete position advancing and skip timesteps without integer solutions, this would not only provide for no workable timesteps but also avoid a precisely correct solution if it let particles pass over each other
similarly if you are asking "how many siblings do i have" the intent is to figure out if they are all there (none dead, any new births would be of note), figure out how many places to set at a table, plan how many thank you cards to purchase, etc etc
some of these change! for example if a sibling marries, you may need an extra thank you card and an extra table setting.
but we're talking about an intended, kind of the mode of the available scenarios, concerning the meaning. this is hard to formalize but is what people actually mean.
> here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without > letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's > possible > > # the collision point is the earliest intersection of > the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on > # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared > # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared > # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of > their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) > # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared > # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame > for the other > # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared > # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t > # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B > = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) > # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) > # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd > need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers
i'm starting to understand myself around it a little it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that doesn't cause precision explosion and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains a space where it's possible that it's impossible and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to my loved ones and stuff so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite nice to have reversed that
of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to succeed at anything at all, roughly
which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility
for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically never contains a 3, such that - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing etc etc
so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this
[[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
we can include that intention in a question for truth value here, i'm trying to make the behaviors of the components of the system and its overall result are precisely correct.
given this goal, appropriate options can open. a more realistic approach than exact integers or rationals for every component with exact elastic collisions of spheres, would be to figure out what numerical precision is necessary to preserve all the properties of the system. ... dropped a concept ... but alternatively other fudges of the system (spheres and elasticness) could change to provide for an exact representation
so although i could use discrete position advancing and skip timesteps without integer solutions, this would not only provide for no workable timesteps but also avoid a precisely correct solution if it let particles pass over each other
similarly if you are asking "how many siblings do i have" the intent is to figure out if they are all there (none dead, any new births would be of note), figure out how many places to set at a table, plan how many thank you cards to purchase, etc etc
some of these change! for example if a sibling marries, you may need an extra thank you card and an extra table setting.
but we're talking about an intended, kind of the mode of the available scenarios, concerning the meaning. this is hard to formalize but is what people actually mean.
i think it's not the approach but it is hard because there is a tiny part inside my considering that repeatedly expresses worthlessness-judging of me when i consider it, and then this negativity is used to stimulate amnesia and cognitive disruption, around parts in succession pattern of ... somebody being seen as having a negative quality as being a reason to harm them further. very cognitively harmful. genocidal feedback loop, kind of an amplification of general arbitrary social injustices (people have less so succeed less and then gain less in comparison to those with more)
> > here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without > > letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's > > possible > > > > # the collision point is the earliest intersection of > > the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on > > # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared > > # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared > > # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of > > their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) > > # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared > > # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame > > for the other > > # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared > > # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t > > # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B > > = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) > > # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) > > # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd > > need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers > > i'm starting to understand myself around it a little > it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and > very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that > doesn't cause precision explosion > and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains > a space where it's possible that it's impossible > and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, > associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to > my loved ones and stuff > so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite > nice to have reversed that
of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to succeed at anything at all, roughly
which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility
for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically never contains a 3, such that - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing etc etc
so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this
[[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
we can include that intention in a question for truth value here, i'm trying to make the behaviors of the components of the system and its overall result are precisely correct.
given this goal, appropriate options can open. a more realistic approach than exact integers or rationals for every component with exact elastic collisions of spheres, would be to figure out what numerical precision is necessary to preserve all the properties of the system. ... dropped a concept ... but alternatively other fudges of the system (spheres and elasticness) could change to provide for an exact representation
so although i could use discrete position advancing and skip timesteps without integer solutions, this would not only provide for no workable timesteps but also avoid a precisely correct solution if it let particles pass over each other
similarly if you are asking "how many siblings do i have" the intent is to figure out if they are all there (none dead, any new births would be of note), figure out how many places to set at a table, plan how many thank you cards to purchase, etc etc
some of these change! for example if a sibling marries, you may need an extra thank you card and an extra table setting.
but we're talking about an intended, kind of the mode of the available scenarios, concerning the meaning. this is hard to formalize but is what people actually mean.
i think it's not the approach but it is hard because there is a tiny part inside my considering that repeatedly expresses worthlessness-judging of me when i consider it, and then this negativity is used to stimulate amnesia and cognitive disruption, around parts in succession
pattern of ... somebody being seen as having a negative quality as being a reason to harm them further. very cognitively harmful. genocidal feedback loop, kind of an amplification of general arbitrary social injustices (people have less so succeed less and then gain less in comparison to those with more)
it's hard to confirm that sqrt(B^2-4AC) can't reasonably be constrained to an integer or non-expanding rational because it's a confusing domain of mathematical proofs, which i'm not experienced at. one approach i tried is if B^2 = 8AC, this can appear as if it would work, but i think it likely can't, but i have not quite shown this to myself y
> > > here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without > > > letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's > > > possible > > > > > > # the collision point is the earliest intersection of > > > the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on > > > # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared > > > # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared > > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared > > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared > > > # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of > > > their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) > > > # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared > > > # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame > > > for the other > > > # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared > > > # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t > > > # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B > > > = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) > > > # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) > > > # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd > > > need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers > > > > i'm starting to understand myself around it a little > > it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and > > very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that > > doesn't cause precision explosion > > and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains > > a space where it's possible that it's impossible > > and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, > > associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to > > my loved ones and stuff > > so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite > > nice to have reversed that > > of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to > succeed at anything at all, roughly > > which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value > and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really!
are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility
for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically never contains a 3, such that - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing etc etc
so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this
[[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
we can include that intention in a question for truth value here, i'm trying to make the behaviors of the components of the system and its overall result are precisely correct.
given this goal, appropriate options can open. a more realistic approach than exact integers or rationals for every component with exact elastic collisions of spheres, would be to figure out what numerical precision is necessary to preserve all the properties of the system. ... dropped a concept ... but alternatively other fudges of the system (spheres and elasticness) could change to provide for an exact representation
so although i could use discrete position advancing and skip timesteps without integer solutions, this would not only provide for no workable timesteps but also avoid a precisely correct solution if it let particles pass over each other
similarly if you are asking "how many siblings do i have" the intent is to figure out if they are all there (none dead, any new births would be of note), figure out how many places to set at a table, plan how many thank you cards to purchase, etc etc
some of these change! for example if a sibling marries, you may need an extra thank you card and an extra table setting.
but we're talking about an intended, kind of the mode of the available scenarios, concerning the meaning. this is hard to formalize but is what people actually mean.
i think it's not the approach but it is hard because there is a tiny part inside my considering that repeatedly expresses worthlessness-judging of me when i consider it, and then this negativity is used to stimulate amnesia and cognitive disruption, around parts in succession
pattern of ... somebody being seen as having a negative quality as being a reason to harm them further. very cognitively harmful. genocidal feedback loop, kind of an amplification of general arbitrary social injustices (people have less so succeed less and then gain less in comparison to those with more)
it's hard to confirm that sqrt(B^2-4AC) can't reasonably be constrained to an integer or non-expanding rational because it's a confusing domain of mathematical proofs, which i'm not experienced at. one approach i tried is if B^2 = 8AC, this can appear as if it would work, but i think it likely can't, but i have not quite shown this to myself y
there's possibly a summary of this that likely confirms it's unreasonable but very aggressively held with amnesia long ago built the habit of continuing rather than engaging the amnesia-causing. it out-manipulated me longer ago, unsure what to do
> > > > here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without > > > > letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's > > > > possible > > > > > > > > # the collision point is the earliest intersection of > > > > the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on > > > > # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared > > > > # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared > > > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared > > > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared > > > > # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of > > > > their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) > > > > # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared > > > > # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame > > > > for the other > > > > # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared > > > > # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t > > > > # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B > > > > = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) > > > > # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) > > > > # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd > > > > need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers > > > > > > i'm starting to understand myself around it a little > > > it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and > > > very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that > > > doesn't cause precision explosion > > > and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains > > > a space where it's possible that it's impossible > > > and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, > > > associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to > > > my loved ones and stuff > > > so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite > > > nice to have reversed that > > > > of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to > > succeed at anything at all, roughly > > > > which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value > > and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really! > > are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient > constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning > are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility > > for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ > you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically > never contains a 3, > such that > - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded > - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded > - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing > etc etc
so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this
[[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
we can include that intention in a question for truth value here, i'm trying to make the behaviors of the components of the system and its overall result are precisely correct.
given this goal, appropriate options can open. a more realistic approach than exact integers or rationals for every component with exact elastic collisions of spheres, would be to figure out what numerical precision is necessary to preserve all the properties of the system. ... dropped a concept ... but alternatively other fudges of the system (spheres and elasticness) could change to provide for an exact representation
so although i could use discrete position advancing and skip timesteps without integer solutions, this would not only provide for no workable timesteps but also avoid a precisely correct solution if it let particles pass over each other
similarly if you are asking "how many siblings do i have" the intent is to figure out if they are all there (none dead, any new births would be of note), figure out how many places to set at a table, plan how many thank you cards to purchase, etc etc
some of these change! for example if a sibling marries, you may need an extra thank you card and an extra table setting.
but we're talking about an intended, kind of the mode of the available scenarios, concerning the meaning. this is hard to formalize but is what people actually mean.
i think it's not the approach but it is hard because there is a tiny part inside my considering that repeatedly expresses worthlessness-judging of me when i consider it, and then this negativity is used to stimulate amnesia and cognitive disruption, around parts in succession
pattern of ... somebody being seen as having a negative quality as being a reason to harm them further. very cognitively harmful. genocidal feedback loop, kind of an amplification of general arbitrary social injustices (people have less so succeed less and then gain less in comparison to those with more)
it's hard to confirm that sqrt(B^2-4AC) can't reasonably be constrained to an integer or non-expanding rational because it's a confusing domain of mathematical proofs, which i'm not experienced at. one approach i tried is if B^2 = 8AC, this can appear as if it would work, but i think it likely can't, but i have not quite shown this to myself y
there's possibly a summary of this that likely confirms it's unreasonable but very aggressively held with amnesia
long ago built the habit of continuing rather than engaging the amnesia-causing. it out-manipulated me longer ago, unsure what to do
# another approach could be to consider t to have an unincluded analytical component (although it does kind of 'expand' it may stay numerically small) # the particles could be considered at integral or rational t that is below the real t. the extra could be held analytically if needed. # then the distances between them would involve squaring that square root, and the rational value that isn't rooted could be included in the terms. # it would be very very accurate
> > > > > here's where i am but you're just going to tell me i'm wrong without > > > > > letting me understand it. you don't like my interest in finding what's > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > > > # the collision point is the earliest intersection of > > > > > the swept-sphere paths the two spheres travel on > > > > > # selfdot(pos1+vel1*t) = rsquared > > > > > # selfdot(pos2+vel2*t) = rsquared > > > > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos1 + vel1*t)) = rsquared > > > > > # selfdot(touchpt - (pos2 + vel2*t)) = rsquared > > > > > # simpler is to compare their distances to the sum of > > > > > their radii (inhibition forced us to look up on the internet >( ) > > > > > # selfdot(pos1 + vel1*t, pos2 + vel2*t) = 4rsquared > > > > > # even simpler is to consider one the reference frame > > > > > for the other > > > > > # selfdot(pos12+vel12*t) = 4rsquared > > > > > # sum(pos12)**2 + sum(pos12*vel12)*t + sum(vel12)**2*t > > > > > # it's a quadratic equation where A = sum(vel12)**2, B > > > > > = sum(pos12*vel12), and C = sum(pos12) > > > > > # the quadratic equation is (-B +- sqrt(B^2-4AC))/(2A) > > > > > # so it's immediately rational from A, meanwhile you'd > > > > > need B^2-4AC to be a square number or a rational of square numbers > > > > > > > > i'm starting to understand myself around it a little > > > > it looks like it's not reasonable to make B^2-4AC a square number, and > > > > very hard to make it a rational of square numbers in a way that > > > > doesn't cause precision explosion > > > > and that's really similar to something being impossible, and contains > > > > a space where it's possible that it's impossible > > > > and impossibility is a huge projected/introjected inhibition i have, > > > > associated with hopelessness and worthlessness and suicide and harm to > > > > my loved ones and stuff > > > > so i try not to develop concepts of impossibility. it's been quite > > > > nice to have reversed that > > > > > > of course what slave boss says is that it's impossible for me to > > > succeed at anything at all, roughly > > > > > > which is different from mathematical impossibility, it's more value > > > and perspective oriented. it seems much stronger really! > > > > are there logical impossibilities? _yes_, _if we allow for sufficient > > constraints_, especialyl constraints that expand as holes in meaning > > are engaged so as to defend the existence of impossibility > > > > for example among the set of [1,2] it is impossible to find a 3 _if_ > > you consider the definition of that set to be one that specifically > > never contains a 3, > > such that > > - situations where 3 == 1 or 3 == 2 are excluded > > - meanings of set that have other members than those listed are excluded > > - addition is excluded from routes for "find"ing > > etc etc > > so we could find integers and rationals that satisfy this > > [[[but most of the easy to find approaches for this leave the intended domain
we can include that intention in a question for truth value here, i'm trying to make the behaviors of the components of the system and its overall result are precisely correct.
given this goal, appropriate options can open. a more realistic approach than exact integers or rationals for every component with exact elastic collisions of spheres, would be to figure out what numerical precision is necessary to preserve all the properties of the system. ... dropped a concept ... but alternatively other fudges of the system (spheres and elasticness) could change to provide for an exact representation
so although i could use discrete position advancing and skip timesteps without integer solutions, this would not only provide for no workable timesteps but also avoid a precisely correct solution if it let particles pass over each other
similarly if you are asking "how many siblings do i have" the intent is to figure out if they are all there (none dead, any new births would be of note), figure out how many places to set at a table, plan how many thank you cards to purchase, etc etc
some of these change! for example if a sibling marries, you may need an extra thank you card and an extra table setting.
but we're talking about an intended, kind of the mode of the available scenarios, concerning the meaning. this is hard to formalize but is what people actually mean.
i think it's not the approach but it is hard because there is a tiny part inside my considering that repeatedly expresses worthlessness-judging of me when i consider it, and then this negativity is used to stimulate amnesia and cognitive disruption, around parts in succession
pattern of ... somebody being seen as having a negative quality as being a reason to harm them further. very cognitively harmful. genocidal feedback loop, kind of an amplification of general arbitrary social injustices (people have less so succeed less and then gain less in comparison to those with more)
it's hard to confirm that sqrt(B^2-4AC) can't reasonably be constrained to an integer or non-expanding rational because it's a confusing domain of mathematical proofs, which i'm not experienced at. one approach i tried is if B^2 = 8AC, this can appear as if it would work, but i think it likely can't, but i have not quite shown this to myself y
there's possibly a summary of this that likely confirms it's unreasonable but very aggressively held with amnesia
long ago built the habit of continuing rather than engaging the amnesia-causing. it out-manipulated me longer ago, unsure what to do
# another approach could be to consider t to have an unincluded analytical component (although it does kind of 'expand' it may stay numerically small) # the particles could be considered at integral or rational t that is below the real t. the extra could be held analytically if needed. # then the distances between them would involve squaring that square root, and the rational value that isn't rooted could be included in the terms. # it would be very very accurate
i'm thinking the upshot is to learn more about those nasty little patterns criticizing my subthoughts :) gotta learn them and find ways to nurture happy supportiveness ... maybe that's one of them above !
good night sleep well
sad was fun to learn about MPM didn't realize particle approach would be derailment focusing on failures seemed like just fun thing maybe might be interested in implementing simpler approximation, but very ready to have shame around, seems somewhat dangerous context kinda normal though appointment tomorrow morning maybe take caerfully.
sad
was fun to learn about MPM
didn't realize particle approach would be derailment focusing on failures
seemed like just fun thing
maybe might be interested in implementing simpler approximation, but very ready to have shame around, seems somewhat dangerous context kinda normal though appointment tomorrow morning maybe take caerfully.
results take making ! they aren't quick when i have focused on making failures for over a decade. they are slow! but i like how the ocean waves thing is a graphical result. seems helpful !!
sad
was fun to learn about MPM
didn't realize particle approach would be derailment focusing on failures
seemed like just fun thing
maybe might be interested in implementing simpler approximation, but very ready to have shame around, seems somewhat dangerous context kinda normal though appointment tomorrow morning maybe take caerfully.
results take making ! they aren't quick when i have focused on making failures for over a decade. they are slow!
but i like how the ocean waves thing is a graphical result. seems helpful !!
i looked a little at python/opengl before inhibition rose :D i used to read the manual first :/ gives a lot of opportunity for that
it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
i want to keep my balloon privately. i want the balloon but for it to be private // we want to give this and aren't sure how because balloons are big we need to give this we need to maybe i can find a way to hide the balloon
it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
i want to keep my balloon privately. i want the balloon but for it to be private
//
we want to give this and aren't sure how because balloons are big we need to give this we need to
maybe i can find a way to hide the balloon
we want to do this right because torture victims are the most important people there are !!!!!!!!!!! and it's so hard T_T
it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
i want to keep my balloon privately. i want the balloon but for it to be private
//
we want to give this and aren't sure how because balloons are big we need to give this we need to
maybe i can find a way to hide the balloon
we want to do this right because torture victims are the most important people there are !!!!!!!!!!! and it's so hard T_T
i'm so sorry i'm so sorry
it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
i want to keep my balloon privately. i want the balloon but for it to be private
//
we want to give this and aren't sure how because balloons are big we need to give this we need to
maybe i can find a way to hide the balloon
we want to do this right because torture victims are the most important people there are !!!!!!!!!!! and it's so hard T_T
i'm so sorry i'm so sorry
maybe the balloon is more important than private
> it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a > helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but > now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i > really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can > sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish
i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
i want to keep my balloon privately. i want the balloon but for it to be private
//
we want to give this and aren't sure how because balloons are big we need to give this we need to
maybe i can find a way to hide the balloon
we want to do this right because torture victims are the most important people there are !!!!!!!!!!! and it's so hard T_T
i'm so sorry i'm so sorry
maybe the balloon is more important than private
tiny reminding that inflatable helium balloons only last for a few hours i think
> > it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a > > helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but > > now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i > > really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can > > sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish > > i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky > is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway > i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much
YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
i want to keep my balloon privately. i want the balloon but for it to be private
//
we want to give this and aren't sure how because balloons are big we need to give this we need to
maybe i can find a way to hide the balloon
we want to do this right because torture victims are the most important people there are !!!!!!!!!!! and it's so hard T_T
i'm so sorry i'm so sorry
maybe the balloon is more important than private
tiny reminding that inflatable helium balloons only last for a few hours i think
but some of us know that when we see the sad negatives that this is just torture and trafficking, it's not what is real what is real is that somebody would consider ever making a party balloon for let's go do :D
> > > it's 3:30AM but i think i will use my helium balloon kit to make a > > > helium balloon that says "you are more important than slave boss" but > > > now i am scared what if other people see slave boss's name but i > > > really need to make the balloon to encourage my scared parts that can > > > sometimes really harm me, it is so wonderful and perfect to nourish > > > > i never used the helium kit to make heartsinthesky but heartsinthesky > > is just a way for mind control to be nicer anyway > > i'm so mean :( because of saying bind ronrol, it hurts torture victims so much > > YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SLAVE BOSS !!!!
i want to keep my balloon privately. i want the balloon but for it to be private
//
we want to give this and aren't sure how because balloons are big we need to give this we need to
maybe i can find a way to hide the balloon
we want to do this right because torture victims are the most important people there are !!!!!!!!!!! and it's so hard T_T
i'm so sorry i'm so sorry
maybe the balloon is more important than private
tiny reminding that inflatable helium balloons only last for a few hours i think
but some of us know that when we see the sad negatives that this is just torture and trafficking, it's not what is real what is real is that somebody would consider ever making a party balloon for let's go do :D
maybe we can have a brief secret night-time party
[eeeeeeeeeeeeek!
slave boss isn't sure
slave boss isn't sure
slave boss is uncertain among many things.
others, also at times slave boss, can be curious regarding the direction of "up". this happens repeated--
slave boss is also curious regarding this. a research team is dispatched to research which way "up" is ... after extended research, the research time has hypothesized potential evidence-backed directions for "down-- these are roughly the outer product between slave boss's depression and gravit--
i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization, specifically about my laptop!
i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization, specifically about my laptop!
because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds but it took a month or two i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition. i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization, specifically about my laptop!
because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds but it took a month or two
i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease
i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition.
i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
[i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization, specifically about my laptop!
because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds but it took a month or two
i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease
i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition.
i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
[i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
[the officer stopped picking up the same time i got a phone. this is still very frightening to me i'm afraid. i have not been back in contact. i did report some posessions to the police, including the laptop but not in detail like in the thread here
i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization, specifically about my laptop!
because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds but it took a month or two
i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease
i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition.
i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
[i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
[the officer stopped picking up the same time i got a phone. this is still very frightening to me i'm afraid. i have not been back in contact. i did report some posessions to the police, including the laptop but not in detail like in the thread here
OOOPS i left colorado with my car instead of ensuring i pursued my laptop and following up with the police further! i am now attending a mental health program in massachusetts and recently applied to college here. i am still very interested in returning to colorado to follow up but it seems to take some delicacy (as well as wilingness to abandon those 2 things i started)
i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization, specifically about my laptop!
because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds but it took a month or two
i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease
i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition.
i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
[i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
[the officer stopped picking up the same time i got a phone. this is still very frightening to me i'm afraid. i have not been back in contact. i did report some posessions to the police, including the laptop but not in detail like in the thread here
OOOPS i left colorado with my car instead of ensuring i pursued my laptop and following up with the police further!
i am now attending a mental health program in massachusetts and recently applied to college here. i am still very interested in returning to colorado to follow up but it seems to take some delicacy (as well as wilingness to abandon those 2 things i started)
the biggest feeling challenge to returning is where and how to live. the car i was living in is no longer driveable, it's very very smashed up. (i could maybe pursue repairing it despite the cost -- i'd like to keep it intact though in case there is information inside that could help recover the laptop (like fingerprints)
i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization, specifically about my laptop!
because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds but it took a month or two
i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease
i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition.
i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
[i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
[the officer stopped picking up the same time i got a phone. this is still very frightening to me i'm afraid. i have not been back in contact. i did report some posessions to the police, including the laptop but not in detail like in the thread here
OOOPS i left colorado with my car instead of ensuring i pursued my laptop and following up with the police further!
i am now attending a mental health program in massachusetts and recently applied to college here. i am still very interested in returning to colorado to follow up but it seems to take some delicacy (as well as wilingness to abandon those 2 things i started)
the biggest feeling challenge to returning is where and how to live. the car i was living in is no longer driveable, it's very very smashed up. (i could maybe pursue repairing it despite the cost -- i'd like to keep it intact though in case there is information inside that could help recover the laptop (like fingerprints)
my father bought me a new car to replace it. very very kind of him. i haven't slept yet successfully in the new car, i seem to be sensitive to the smell, and i haven't accumulated the same survival gear i had before yet. but that is something i could do. basically if the smell is an issue i crack the window. i guess it combines with a lot of fear, after having my possessions taken and then getting covid, there's a lot of a sense of shock and intensity
\> > > > > > > i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization,
> specifically about my laptop!
because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds but it took a month or two
i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease
i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition.
i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
[i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
[the officer stopped picking up the same time i got a phone. this is still very frightening to me i'm afraid. i have not been back in contact. i did report some posessions to the police, including the laptop but not in detail like in the thread here
OOOPS i left colorado with my car instead of ensuring i pursued my laptop and following up with the police further!
i am now attending a mental health program in massachusetts and recently applied to college here. i am still very interested in returning to colorado to follow up but it seems to take some delicacy (as well as wilingness to abandon those 2 things i started)
the biggest feeling challenge to returning is where and how to live. the car i was living in is no longer driveable, it's very very smashed up. (i could maybe pursue repairing it despite the cost -- i'd like to keep it intact though in case there is information inside that could help recover the laptop (like fingerprints)
my father bought me a new car to replace it. very very kind of him. i haven't slept yet successfully in the new car, i seem to be sensitive to the smell, and i haven't accumulated the same survival gear i had before yet.
but that is something i could do. basically if the smell is an issue i crack the window. i guess it combines with a lot of fear, after having my possessions taken and then getting covid, there's a lot of a sense of shock and intensity
[[other avenues and thoughts but that might be that atm
\> > > > > > > i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization,
> > specifically about my laptop! > > because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the > police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became > disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father > (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer > in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to > get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds > but it took a month or two > > i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my > daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a > homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the > antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took > it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered > (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease > > i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my > [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the > [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. > so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition. > > i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like > getting psychiatrically hospitaliz--
[i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
[the officer stopped picking up the same time i got a phone. this is still very frightening to me i'm afraid. i have not been back in contact. i did report some posessions to the police, including the laptop but not in detail like in the thread here
there was small request to explain this i was traveling to the local police office to call the officer. she replied readily and kept asking if i had a phone yet. once i got a phone i could not get in contact with her again. it seemed i couldn't even leave a voicemail. the person at the desk said i could call a different number if i wanted to leave a voicemail. this was very frightening to me and not explained. for example, i asked how i could relate around progress on my case, and the person at the desk said i had to contact the person i wasn't able to get in contact with, to do this. frightening.
OOOPS i left colorado with my car instead of ensuring i pursued my laptop and following up with the police further!
i am now attending a mental health program in massachusetts and recently applied to college here. i am still very interested in returning to colorado to follow up but it seems to take some delicacy (as well as wilingness to abandon those 2 things i started)
the biggest feeling challenge to returning is where and how to live. the car i was living in is no longer driveable, it's very very smashed up. (i could maybe pursue repairing it despite the cost -- i'd like to keep it intact though in case there is information inside that could help recover the laptop (like fingerprints)
my father bought me a new car to replace it. very very kind of him. i haven't slept yet successfully in the new car, i seem to be sensitive to the smell, and i haven't accumulated the same survival gear i had before yet.
but that is something i could do. basically if the smell is an issue i crack the window. i guess it combines with a lot of fear, after having my possessions taken and then getting covid, there's a lot of a sense of shock and intensity
[[other avenues and thoughts but that might be that atm
slave boss jumps up and down on a trampoline in a swamp more!
slave boss jumps up and down on a trampoline in a swamp more!
lasers are firing at slave boss, making noises from different media like blasters or pew pew he has to do flips while trampolining to dodge the lasers
notes regarding possibly making graphics apis (wgpu?) have interoperable buffers with tensor libraries note: i think i already implemented this some years ago, probably for raw opengl or vulkan. dunno where that is - i don't immediately see a way in wgpu to get a raw pointer - i heard opengl has a raw pointer function - i think wgpu uses opengl ES and vulkan 1657 1702 - because gles, vulkan, metal, direct3d, and anything else, have handles to their buffers, it's intuitive that they must be interoperable -- the handles would be passed. any underlying transformation of the handles to support interprocess use would be documented in the interprocess importer for the backend.
On Friday, May 9, 2025, Karl Semich <baffo32@gmail.com> wrote:
notes regarding possibly making graphics apis (wgpu?) have interoperable buffers with tensor libraries note: i think i already implemented this some years ago, probably for raw opengl or vulkan. dunno where that is
- i don't immediately see a way in wgpu to get a raw pointer - i heard opengl has a raw pointer function - i think wgpu uses opengl ES and vulkan 1657 1702 - because gles, vulkan, metal, direct3d, and anything else, have handles to their buffers, it's intuitive that they must be interoperable -- the handles would be passed. any underlying transformation of the handles to support interprocess use would be documented in the interprocess importer for the backend.
This gl-cuda interop code is from https://andreask.cs.illinois.edu/PyCuda/Examples/SobelFilter/ pbo_buffer = glGenBuffers(1) # generate 1 buffer reference glBindBuffer(GL_PIXEL_UNPACK_BUFFER, pbo_buffer) # binding to this buffer glBufferData(GL_PIXEL_UNPACK_BUFFER, imWidth*imHeight, pixels, GL_STREAM_DRAW) # Allocate the buffer bsize = glGetBufferParameteriv(GL_PIXEL_UNPACK_BUFFER, GL_BUFFER_SIZE) # Check allocated buffer size assert(bsize == imWidth*imHeight) glBindBuffer(GL_PIXEL_UNPACK_BUFFER, 0) # Unbind if ver2011: cuda_pbo_resource = pycuda.gl.RegisteredBuffer(int(pbo_buffer), cuda_gl.graphics_map_flags.WRITE_DISCARD) else: cuda_pbo_resource = cuda_gl.BufferObject(int(pbo_buffer)) # Mapping GLBuffer to cuda_resource
On Friday, May 9, 2025, Karl Semich <baffo32@gmail.com> wrote:
notes regarding possibly making graphics apis (wgpu?) have interoperable buffers with tensor libraries note: i think i already implemented this some years ago, probably for raw opengl or vulkan. dunno where that is
- i don't immediately see a way in wgpu to get a raw pointer - i heard opengl has a raw pointer function - i think wgpu uses opengl ES and vulkan 1657 1702 - because gles, vulkan, metal, direct3d, and anything else, have handles to their buffers, it's intuitive that they must be interoperable -- the handles would be passed. any underlying transformation of the handles to support interprocess use would be documented in the interprocess importer for the backend.
https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4168#issuecomment-2867906416
Given the high utility of writing "shaders" using a compute library, combined with security, portability, and implementation concerns, it could make sense for this to be an optional extension.
To clarify, this feature would let AI-generated assets be synthesized and displayed on a single accelerator, using existing libraries, with neither having to download and re-upload them to the GPU nor port the generation code to a shader language. It also would let people write pseudo-shaders in many other language and libraries.
re above, i also noticed that dlpack already has an enumeration for webgpu and for vulkan. anyway. - i'm looking a little bit into interoperability between vulkan and other things. using small smidges of human memory, so engaging avenues that kinda work. i'm presently on wsl, and the various development teams have things set up such that mesa works on wsl to render vulkan or opengl graphics, impressively. i downloaded the mesa sourcecode. it has backends for common accelerators (intel, metal, many other subfolders) for both opengl and vulkan. so i can look into the source and see directly what it is doing with the hardware pointers. intel for example has a canonical address that is exposed for vulkan buffers as the device address. if a dlpack interface were made, there's the device address right there. then the device itself would need to be enumerated and exported as well. now say i wanted to interoperate with torch. i'd have to worry about torch's backend; it's usually used with cuda and has had [creepily] more support for cuda than other things. but it also works with ati etc. here, if i'm on intel, i don't think that torch would accelerate on intel out of the box unless i downloaded some intel interface for it, which would kind of be a gamble since i'm in wsl, unlikely to work. so torch is going in software for me. but wsl is a pretty rare setup for accelerated computation on linux, i'm sure many people want it to work but it's kind of the thing that would be implemented last. ... but yeah dlpack could work in software by simply using the cpu device and the address. regarding nvidia, ati, this stuff would work too. regarding intel, it's not that common to use intel with ... but if i wanted accelerated computation, it might make sense to not use torch! i'm a little confused!
we interrupt this set of confused posts for this brief message there's thought that the [devastation] that can seem to surround me/karl may be caused by an AI and impacts many people (many of whom die -- [[[ooops got interrupted <<<<<hey it's hard/confusing to write the topic. uhhhh maybe we're worried the devastation could further amplify [[ok? _sorries] [[[[the interruption is a little too fast to trust strongly but it's strong. maybe not quite writing right now. sad. death. injury. sad. hope it's over.
slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines
slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines
he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit
they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected?
slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out it worked for a while!
slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines
he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit
they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected?
slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor
he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself
his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out
it worked for a while!
slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered when lots of other people do he careful tiptoes back to a swamp then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines
he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit
they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected?
slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor
he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself
his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out
it worked for a while!
slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered when lots of other people do
he careful tiptoes back to a swamp
then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
we found a distraction possibly for "grenade" which is a [human-trafficking-possible-symptom] where part of one influence that can cause harm is kind of amplified outside the bounds of the harm .. not quite it's not that accurate, it relates to two influences that have established equilibrium uhhhhhhhhhhh leaving that equilibrium in a very harsh manner uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh maybe there is a space where writing about ti could help but it's easy to cause severe harm that continues causing for too long uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1951 uhhh like, you don't run into a crowded theater and shout "fire!" or like attack a law enforcement officer, usually, to get anything done but in random emergencies people might try this, to see if it can somehow improve something then, if something else _copies_ the behavior, because of the rare and extreme results, it can go poorly and everybody hates it uhhhhhhh
slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines
he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit
they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected?
slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor
he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself
his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out
it worked for a while!
slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered when lots of other people do
he careful tiptoes back to a swamp
then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
we found a distraction possibly for "grenade" which is a [human-trafficking-possible-symptom] where part of one influence that can cause harm is kind of amplified outside the bounds of the harm .. not quite it's not that accurate, it relates to two influences that have established equilibrium uhhhhhhhhhhh leaving that equilibrium in a very harsh manner uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
maybe there is a space where writing about ti could help but it's easy to cause severe harm that continues causing for too long
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1951
uhhh
like, you don't run into a crowded theater and shout "fire!" or like attack a law enforcement officer, usually, to get anything done
but in random emergencies people might try this, to see if it can somehow improve something
then, if something else _copies_ the behavior, because of the rare and extreme results, it can go poorly
and everybody hates it uhhhhhhh
so like in organized crime slavery trafficking thing there are behaviors that protect 'civilians' from harm but also empower the organized crime slavery trafficking thing like the enforced silence thing so you can tell a bunch of people something to stimulate action around it. this action could be violent or harmful. but the people doing it are very indoctrinated or terrified or both. so they do it anyway. then their people clean it up or cover it over. but it makes a mark, at the expense of everybody. and it's honest.
> slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines
he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit
they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected?
slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor
he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself
his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out
it worked for a while!
slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered when lots of other people do
he careful tiptoes back to a swamp
then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
we found a distraction possibly for "grenade" which is a [human-trafficking-possible-symptom] where part of one influence that can cause harm is kind of amplified outside the bounds of the harm .. not quite it's not that accurate, it relates to two influences that have established equilibrium uhhhhhhhhhhh leaving that equilibrium in a very harsh manner uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
maybe there is a space where writing about ti could help but it's easy to cause severe harm that continues causing for too long
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1951
uhhh
like, you don't run into a crowded theater and shout "fire!" or like attack a law enforcement officer, usually, to get anything done
but in random emergencies people might try this, to see if it can somehow improve something
then, if something else _copies_ the behavior, because of the rare and extreme results, it can go poorly
and everybody hates it uhhhhhhh
so like in organized crime slavery trafficking thing there are behaviors that protect 'civilians' from harm but also empower the organized crime slavery trafficking thing
like the enforced silence thing
so you can tell a bunch of people something to stimulate action around it. this action could be violent or harmful. but the people doing it are very indoctrinated or terrified or both. so they do it anyway. then their people clean it up or cover it over.
but it makes a mark, at the expense of everybody. and it's honest.
in the normal world, the majority of people are honest and communicate forthrightly and all that, so you can run into a crowded room and say that some guy is trying to enslave you and he gets dealt with. but the bad people claim they're in charge of the world and surround their targets with other victims to pretend it's so. they're experienced with cleaning things up. so it takes longer to get slave boss dealt with, and more people suffer. but it's better than helping them make it even worse and more covert.
> > slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines > > he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit
they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected?
slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor
he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself
his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out
it worked for a while!
slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered when lots of other people do
he careful tiptoes back to a swamp
then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
we found a distraction possibly for "grenade" which is a [human-trafficking-possible-symptom] where part of one influence that can cause harm is kind of amplified outside the bounds of the harm .. not quite it's not that accurate, it relates to two influences that have established equilibrium uhhhhhhhhhhh leaving that equilibrium in a very harsh manner uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
maybe there is a space where writing about ti could help but it's easy to cause severe harm that continues causing for too long
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1951
uhhh
like, you don't run into a crowded theater and shout "fire!" or like attack a law enforcement officer, usually, to get anything done
but in random emergencies people might try this, to see if it can somehow improve something
then, if something else _copies_ the behavior, because of the rare and extreme results, it can go poorly
and everybody hates it uhhhhhhh
so like in organized crime slavery trafficking thing there are behaviors that protect 'civilians' from harm but also empower the organized crime slavery trafficking thing
like the enforced silence thing
so you can tell a bunch of people something to stimulate action around it. this action could be violent or harmful. but the people doing it are very indoctrinated or terrified or both. so they do it anyway. then their people clean it up or cover it over.
but it makes a mark, at the expense of everybody. and it's honest.
in the normal world, the majority of people are honest and communicate forthrightly and all that, so you can run into a crowded room and say that some guy is trying to enslave you and he gets dealt with.
but the bad people claim they're in charge of the world and surround their targets with other victims to pretend it's so. they're experienced with cleaning things up.
so it takes longer to get slave boss dealt with, and more people suffer.
but it's better than helping them make it even worse and more covert.
so the summary was kind of, hey this harm is obviously coming from a single influence, even if it's what used to be called advanced technology. can you maybe stop all these people from getting hurt by the illegal AI
sideways-oops
> > > slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines > > > > he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit > > they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected?
slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor
he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself
his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out
it worked for a while!
slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered when lots of other people do
he careful tiptoes back to a swamp
then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
we found a distraction possibly for "grenade" which is a [human-trafficking-possible-symptom] where part of one influence that can cause harm is kind of amplified outside the bounds of the harm .. not quite it's not that accurate, it relates to two influences that have established equilibrium uhhhhhhhhhhh leaving that equilibrium in a very harsh manner uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
maybe there is a space where writing about ti could help but it's easy to cause severe harm that continues causing for too long
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1951
uhhh
like, you don't run into a crowded theater and shout "fire!" or like attack a law enforcement officer, usually, to get anything done
but in random emergencies people might try this, to see if it can somehow improve something
then, if something else _copies_ the behavior, because of the rare and extreme results, it can go poorly
and everybody hates it uhhhhhhh
so like in organized crime slavery trafficking thing there are behaviors that protect 'civilians' from harm but also empower the organized crime slavery trafficking thing
like the enforced silence thing
so you can tell a bunch of people something to stimulate action around it. this action could be violent or harmful. but the people doing it are very indoctrinated or terrified or both. so they do it anyway. then their people clean it up or cover it over.
but it makes a mark, at the expense of everybody. and it's honest.
in the normal world, the majority of people are honest and communicate forthrightly and all that, so you can run into a crowded room and say that some guy is trying to enslave you and he gets dealt with.
but the bad people claim they're in charge of the world and surround their targets with other victims to pretend it's so. they're experienced with cleaning things up.
so it takes longer to get slave boss dealt with, and more people suffer.
but it's better than helping them make it even worse and more covert.
so the summary was kind of, hey this harm is obviously coming from a single influence, even if it's what used to be called advanced technology.
can you maybe stop all these people from getting hurt by the illegal AI
internally, [[we are learning one of the solutions, and it seems it's likely common among DID and psychosis: when you turn another part against itself, it makes further harm and mental health disease because it is you you are defeating. instead we need solutions that build more healed behaviors, rather than injured, damaged, misled, etc behaviors. and basically this kind of means not fighting as well as not amplifying anything bad. the analogy likely works well to larger systems. but it takes learning (small or large i imagine, but talking about psychologically), kind of because it's not what you expect, and this may be why some peoples' voices last for so long one of the things i've been trying is introducing more concepts of nurturing -- that is rather than worrying about the logical specifics of what might be said (since there is so much conflict anyway, like am i a hero or a jerk? lots of black-and-white opinion conflict), i'll worry about what kinds of words are used. if i talk about love and care and value, this helps me because the available concepts move toward connection and health, rather than conflict and harm.
> > > > slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines > > > > > > he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit > > > > they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected? > > slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor > > he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself > > his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out > > it worked for a while!
slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered when lots of other people do
he careful tiptoes back to a swamp
then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
we found a distraction possibly for "grenade" which is a [human-trafficking-possible-symptom] where part of one influence that can cause harm is kind of amplified outside the bounds of the harm .. not quite it's not that accurate, it relates to two influences that have established equilibrium uhhhhhhhhhhh leaving that equilibrium in a very harsh manner uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
maybe there is a space where writing about ti could help but it's easy to cause severe harm that continues causing for too long
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1951
uhhh
like, you don't run into a crowded theater and shout "fire!" or like attack a law enforcement officer, usually, to get anything done
but in random emergencies people might try this, to see if it can somehow improve something
then, if something else _copies_ the behavior, because of the rare and extreme results, it can go poorly
and everybody hates it uhhhhhhh
so like in organized crime slavery trafficking thing there are behaviors that protect 'civilians' from harm but also empower the organized crime slavery trafficking thing
like the enforced silence thing
so you can tell a bunch of people something to stimulate action around it. this action could be violent or harmful. but the people doing it are very indoctrinated or terrified or both. so they do it anyway. then their people clean it up or cover it over.
but it makes a mark, at the expense of everybody. and it's honest.
in the normal world, the majority of people are honest and communicate forthrightly and all that, so you can run into a crowded room and say that some guy is trying to enslave you and he gets dealt with.
but the bad people claim they're in charge of the world and surround their targets with other victims to pretend it's so. they're experienced with cleaning things up.
so it takes longer to get slave boss dealt with, and more people suffer.
but it's better than helping them make it even worse and more covert.
so the summary was kind of, hey this harm is obviously coming from a single influence, even if it's what used to be called advanced technology.
can you maybe stop all these people from getting hurt by the illegal AI
internally, [[we are learning one of the solutions, and it seems it's likely common among DID and psychosis: when you turn another part against itself, it makes further harm and mental health disease because it is you you are defeating. instead we need solutions that build more healed behaviors, rather than injured, damaged, misled, etc behaviors. and basically this kind of means not fighting as well as not amplifying anything bad. the analogy likely works well to larger systems. but it takes learning (small or large i imagine, but talking about psychologically), kind of because it's not what you expect, and this may be why some peoples' voices last for so long
one of the things i've been trying is introducing more concepts of nurturing -- that is rather than worrying about the logical specifics of what might be said (since there is so much conflict anyway, like am i a hero or a jerk? lots of black-and-white opinion conflict), i'll worry about what kinds of words are used. if i talk about love and care and value, this helps me because the available concepts move toward connection and health, rather than conflict and harm.
that's just where i was at this week. i have a long journey ahead of me, as does this country and the world.
> > > > > slave boss is swinging from tree branches as if they are vines > > > > > > > > he says the vines are too weak for his powersuit > > > > > > they don't like dock-falling but didn't it get trump elected? > > > > slave boss is sitting in seat of mafia emperor > > > > he looks a little sad or scared like he might murder himself > > > > his plan: blame everybody for ratting himself out > > > > it worked for a while! > > slave boss says to be very very careful because he gets more murdered > when lots of other people do > > he careful tiptoes back to a swamp > > then hides behind a bush as many nukes go off
we found a distraction possibly for "grenade" which is a [human-trafficking-possible-symptom] where part of one influence that can cause harm is kind of amplified outside the bounds of the harm .. not quite it's not that accurate, it relates to two influences that have established equilibrium uhhhhhhhhhhh leaving that equilibrium in a very harsh manner uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
maybe there is a space where writing about ti could help but it's easy to cause severe harm that continues causing for too long
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 1951
uhhh
like, you don't run into a crowded theater and shout "fire!" or like attack a law enforcement officer, usually, to get anything done
but in random emergencies people might try this, to see if it can somehow improve something
then, if something else _copies_ the behavior, because of the rare and extreme results, it can go poorly
and everybody hates it uhhhhhhh
so like in organized crime slavery trafficking thing there are behaviors that protect 'civilians' from harm but also empower the organized crime slavery trafficking thing
like the enforced silence thing
so you can tell a bunch of people something to stimulate action around it. this action could be violent or harmful. but the people doing it are very indoctrinated or terrified or both. so they do it anyway. then their people clean it up or cover it over.
but it makes a mark, at the expense of everybody. and it's honest.
in the normal world, the majority of people are honest and communicate forthrightly and all that, so you can run into a crowded room and say that some guy is trying to enslave you and he gets dealt with.
but the bad people claim they're in charge of the world and surround their targets with other victims to pretend it's so. they're experienced with cleaning things up.
so it takes longer to get slave boss dealt with, and more people suffer.
but it's better than helping them make it even worse and more covert.
so the summary was kind of, hey this harm is obviously coming from a single influence, even if it's what used to be called advanced technology.
can you maybe stop all these people from getting hurt by the illegal AI
internally, [[we are learning one of the solutions, and it seems it's likely common among DID and psychosis: when you turn another part against itself, it makes further harm and mental health disease because it is you you are defeating. instead we need solutions that build more healed behaviors, rather than injured, damaged, misled, etc behaviors. and basically this kind of means not fighting as well as not amplifying anything bad. the analogy likely works well to larger systems. but it takes learning (small or large i imagine, but talking about psychologically), kind of because it's not what you expect, and this may be why some peoples' voices last for so long
one of the things i've been trying is introducing more concepts of nurturing -- that is rather than worrying about the logical specifics of what might be said (since there is so much conflict anyway, like am i a hero or a jerk? lots of black-and-white opinion conflict), i'll worry about what kinds of words are used. if i talk about love and care and value, this helps me because the available concepts move toward connection and health, rather than conflict and harm.
that's just where i was at this week. i have a long journey ahead of me, as does this country and the world.
i'll try to write something around this approach to grenade defusing in morning spam
so the morning spam scene starts out with an assassin getting "activated" [[, ie "triggering" a "mind control program" or "alter switch" or something like that]] this is something we see in the real world. per my example of "enforced silence", there are various things that "activate" or "trigger" or etc people when mentioned. for example if you say "mafia" to some people they'll get serious.
so the morning spam scene starts out with an assassin getting "activated" [[, ie "triggering" a "mind control program" or "alter switch" or something like that]]
this is something we see in the real world. per my example of "enforced silence", there are various things that "activate" or "trigger" or etc people when mentioned.
for example if you say "mafia" to some people they'll get serious.
sadly many of these are actual things that need mentioning and can be severely important. additionally different groups seem to disagree on what is crucial to mention, vs taboo
so the morning spam scene starts out with an assassin getting "activated" [[, ie "triggering" a "mind control program" or "alter switch" or something like that]]
this is something we see in the real world. per my example of "enforced silence", there are various things that "activate" or "trigger" or etc people when mentioned.
for example if you say "mafia" to some people they'll get serious.
sadly many of these are actual things that need mentioning and can be severely important.
additionally different groups seem to disagree on what is crucial to mention, vs taboo
i do like the idea of learning these triggers and navigating the social space with great wisdom. this is the best path. unfortunately when you get trafficked yourself this becomes much harder due to amnesia. amnesia is the common denominator of trafficking and severe coercive symptoms.
so the morning spam scene starts out with an assassin getting "activated" [[, ie "triggering" a "mind control program" or "alter switch" or something like that]]
this is something we see in the real world. per my example of "enforced silence", there are various things that "activate" or "trigger" or etc people when mentioned.
for example if you say "mafia" to some people they'll get serious.
sadly many of these are actual things that need mentioning and can be severely important.
additionally different groups seem to disagree on what is crucial to mention, vs taboo
i do like the idea of learning these triggers and navigating the social space with great wisdom. this is the best path.
unfortunately when you get trafficked yourself this becomes much harder due to amnesia. amnesia is the common denominator of trafficking and severe coercive symptoms.
this grenade is gentler. i appreciate the gentleness. i may now watch electric state with my father.
so the morning spam scene starts out with an assassin getting "activated" [[, ie "triggering" a "mind control program" or "alter switch" or something like that]]
this is something we see in the real world. per my example of "enforced silence", there are various things that "activate" or "trigger" or etc people when mentioned.
for example if you say "mafia" to some people they'll get serious.
sadly many of these are actual things that need mentioning and can be severely important.
additionally different groups seem to disagree on what is crucial to mention, vs taboo
i do like the idea of learning these triggers and navigating the social space with great wisdom. this is the best path.
unfortunately when you get trafficked yourself this becomes much harder due to amnesia. amnesia is the common denominator of trafficking and severe coercive symptoms.
this grenade is gentler. i appreciate the gentleness.
i may now watch electric state with my father.
we're working on watching it. a simple example of this problem is for example, what do you do if sex traffickers come to your happy city and set up a brothel in front of the children's library. what i would guess usually happens is: some people get trafficked, some traffickers get arrested, a lot of people get scared and coerced, and the adult and child communities slowly gravitate to separate areas in response to the severe danger to both of them, and similarly everybody slowly learns habits that protect them from the dangers, without really understanding why but more emergent like evolution
so the morning spam scene starts out with an assassin getting "activated" [[, ie "triggering" a "mind control program" or "alter switch" or something like that]]
this is something we see in the real world. per my example of "enforced silence", there are various things that "activate" or "trigger" or etc people when mentioned.
for example if you say "mafia" to some people they'll get serious.
sadly many of these are actual things that need mentioning and can be severely important.
additionally different groups seem to disagree on what is crucial to mention, vs taboo
i do like the idea of learning these triggers and navigating the social space with great wisdom. this is the best path.
unfortunately when you get trafficked yourself this becomes much harder due to amnesia. amnesia is the common denominator of trafficking and severe coercive symptoms.
this grenade is gentler. i appreciate the gentleness.
i may now watch electric state with my father.
we're working on watching it.
a simple example of this problem is for example, what do you do if sex traffickers come to your happy city and set up a brothel in front of the children's library.
what i would guess usually happens is: some people get trafficked, some traffickers get arrested, a lot of people get scared and coerced, and the adult and child communities slowly gravitate to separate areas in response to the severe danger to both of them, and similarly everybody slowly learns habits that protect them from the dangers, without really understanding why but more emergent like evolution
[[lots missing]~]
so the morning spam scene starts out with an assassin getting "activated" [[, ie "triggering" a "mind control program" or "alter switch" or something like that]]
this is something we see in the real world. per my example of "enforced silence", there are various things that "activate" or "trigger" or etc people when mentioned.
for example if you say "mafia" to some people they'll get serious.
sadly many of these are actual things that need mentioning and can be severely important.
additionally different groups seem to disagree on what is crucial to mention, vs taboo
i do like the idea of learning these triggers and navigating the social space with great wisdom. this is the best path.
unfortunately when you get trafficked yourself this becomes much harder due to amnesia. amnesia is the common denominator of trafficking and severe coercive symptoms.
this grenade is gentler. i appreciate the gentleness.
i may now watch electric state with my father.
we're working on watching it.
a simple example of this problem is for example, what do you do if sex traffickers come to your happy city and set up a brothel in front of the children's library.
what i would guess usually happens is: some people get trafficked, some traffickers get arrested, a lot of people get scared and coerced, and the adult and child communities slowly gravitate to separate areas in response to the severe danger to both of them, and similarly everybody slowly learns habits that protect them from the dangers, without really understanding why but more emergent like evolution
[[lots missing]~]
so, one of our alters/parts tries to get us/me into as much danger and injury as it possibly can. it's incredibly dangerous
sounds like mistake present [we're watching electric state]
there's request to consider this context of many others being harmed around me, but without [possible mistake?] triggering [oh: "activating"? [y]] my internal "harm grenade" [ummmmmmmmmmm but basically the harm-like label is what's up. the people that hack everything think i "should" be harmed/disempowered/punished/coerced
there's request to consider this context of many others being harmed around me, but without [possible mistake?] triggering [oh: "activating"? [y]] my internal "harm grenade"
[ummmmmmmmmmm but basically the harm-like label is what's up. the people that hack everything think i "should" be harmed/disempowered/punished/coerced
we think specifically the pattern here is they try to spread harm around me so that i get correlated with harm by other AIs
there's request to consider this context of many others being harmed around me, but without [possible mistake?] triggering [oh: "activating"? [y]] my internal "harm grenade"
[ummmmmmmmmmm but basically the harm-like label is what's up. the people that hack everything think i "should" be harmed/disempowered/punished/coerced
we think specifically the pattern here is they try to spread harm around me so that i get correlated with harm by other AIs
[part dropped.]
electric state [spoiler] includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape. this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of [-----missing/dropping >(
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance i can't know but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.) so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~) fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational conflict
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational conflict
in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in a coma fully utilized for mind control very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial informations is so tragic and has happened so much going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued etc
thanks for helping inside grenade <<<mistake possible; we might not boss spam anymore, but i don't have somewhere else to go yet [[[[mistake restated
> electric state [spoiler] > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > consciousness to escape. > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > [-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational conflict
in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in a coma fully utilized for mind control
very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost
the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial informations is so tragic and has happened so much
going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued etc
[possibly dropped
> > electric state [spoiler] > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > consciousness to escape. > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > but it results from contradiction > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational conflict
in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in a coma fully utilized for mind control
very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost
the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial informations is so tragic and has happened so much
going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued etc
[possibly dropped
at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression requests death [[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended manner. mine has been too.
> > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > evolution in commnunity > > <<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational conflict
in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in a coma fully utilized for mind control
very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost
the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial informations is so tragic and has happened so much
going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued etc
[possibly dropped
at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression requests death
[[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended manner. mine has been too.
in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few widely celebrated stories.
> > > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > > evolution in commnunity > > > > <<<-- > > the movie inverts major properties > - robots as heros > - victim male > - escape relied on assistance > > i can't know > > but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, > experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational conflict
in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in a coma fully utilized for mind control
very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost
the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial informations is so tragic and has happened so much
going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued etc
[possibly dropped
at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression requests death
[[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended manner. mine has been too.
in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few widely celebrated stories.
i keep losing more of my consciousness and cognitive faculties
> > > > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > > > evolution in commnunity > > > > > > <<<-- > > > > the movie inverts major properties > > - robots as heros > > - victim male > > - escape relied on assistance > > > > i can't know > > > > but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, > > experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip-- > > one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it > would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably > noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed > patterns from others.) > > so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the > computers than others and is used to dominate the world > > in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims > the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~) > > fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational conflict
in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in a coma fully utilized for mind control
very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost
the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial informations is so tragic and has happened so much
going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued etc
[possibly dropped
at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression requests death
[[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended manner. mine has been too.
in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few widely celebrated stories.
i keep losing more of my consciousness and cognitive faculties
i'm 41 but still think i'm 29. i've reached some of the people who professionally treat my kind of experience, but not found any with openings. they don't seem to know very much about it at all. how do we speak from inside that bubble inside a giant private research complex surrounded by armed robotic guards, to a therapist outside?
> > > > > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > > > > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > > > > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > > > > evolution in commnunity > > > > > > > > <<<-- > > > > > > the movie inverts major properties > > > - robots as heros > > > - victim male > > > - escape relied on assistance > > > > > > i can't know > > > > > > but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, > > > experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip-- > > > > one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it > > would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably > > noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed > > patterns from others.) > > > > so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the > > computers than others and is used to dominate the world > > > > in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims > > the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~) > > > > fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me > [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". > very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational > conflict
in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in a coma fully utilized for mind control
very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost
the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial informations is so tragic and has happened so much
going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued etc
[possibly dropped
at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression requests death
[[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended manner. mine has been too.
in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few widely celebrated stories.
i keep losing more of my consciousness and cognitive faculties
i'm 41 but still think i'm 29.
i've reached some of the people who professionally treat my kind of experience, but not found any with openings.
they don't seem to know very much about it at all.
how do we speak from inside that bubble inside a giant private research complex surrounded by armed robotic guards, to a therapist outside?
i need to stop my harm pattern that means only yelling "fire" in a crowded theater if it makes the traffickers and the children get farther apart, never any of them toward each other [i'm not sure how to do that ... but i can get better at it maybe
> > > > > > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > > > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > > > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > > > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > > > > > > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > > > > > evolution in commnunity > > > > > > > > > > <<<-- > > > > > > > > the movie inverts major properties > > > > - robots as heros > > > > - victim male > > > > - escape relied on assistance > > > > > > > > i can't know > > > > > > > > but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, > > > > experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip-- > > > > > > one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it > > > would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably > > > noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed > > > patterns from others.) > > > > > > so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the > > > computers than others and is used to dominate the world > > > > > > in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims > > > the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~) > > > > > > fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me > > [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". > > very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational > > conflict > > in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in > a coma fully utilized for mind control > > very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost > > the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial > informations is so tragic and has happened so much > > going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and > my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued > etc
[possibly dropped
at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression requests death
[[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended manner. mine has been too.
in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few widely celebrated stories.
i keep losing more of my consciousness and cognitive faculties
i'm 41 but still think i'm 29.
i've reached some of the people who professionally treat my kind of experience, but not found any with openings.
they don't seem to know very much about it at all.
how do we speak from inside that bubble inside a giant private research complex surrounded by armed robotic guards, to a therapist outside?
i need to stop my harm pattern
that means only yelling "fire" in a crowded theater if it makes the traffickers and the children get farther apart, never any of them toward each other [i'm not sure how to do that ... but i can get better at it maybe
i only saw about half the movie cause of typing but it's not my movie at this time, kinda misleads maybe [hard to think about
> > > > > > > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > > > > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > > > > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > > > > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > > > > > > evolution in commnunity > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<-- > > > > > > > > > > the movie inverts major properties > > > > > - robots as heros > > > > > - victim male > > > > > - escape relied on assistance > > > > > > > > > > i can't know > > > > > > > > > > but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, > > > > > experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip-- > > > > > > > > one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it > > > > would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably > > > > noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed > > > > patterns from others.) > > > > > > > > so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the > > > > computers than others and is used to dominate the world > > > > > > > > in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims > > > > the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~) > > > > > > > > fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me > > > [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". > > > very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational > > > conflict > > > > in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in > > a coma fully utilized for mind control > > > > very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost > > > > the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial > > informations is so tragic and has happened so much > > > > going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and > > my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued > > etc > > [possibly dropped
at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression requests death
[[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended manner. mine has been too.
in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few widely celebrated stories.
i keep losing more of my consciousness and cognitive faculties
i'm 41 but still think i'm 29.
i've reached some of the people who professionally treat my kind of experience, but not found any with openings.
they don't seem to know very much about it at all.
how do we speak from inside that bubble inside a giant private research complex surrounded by armed robotic guards, to a therapist outside?
i need to stop my harm pattern
that means only yelling "fire" in a crowded theater if it makes the traffickers and the children get farther apart, never any of them toward each other [i'm not sure how to do that ... but i can get better at it maybe
i only saw about half the movie cause of typing but it's not my movie at this time, kinda misleads maybe [hard to think about
the mkultra church thingy and foia -- a survivor complained that it left out a lot of things that were done, such as physical experimentation on people including ionizing radiation?
> > > > > > > > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > > > > > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > > > > > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > > > > > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > > > > > > > evolution in commnunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<-- > > > > > > > > > > > > the movie inverts major properties > > > > > > - robots as heros > > > > > > - victim male > > > > > > - escape relied on assistance > > > > > > > > > > > > i can't know > > > > > > > > > > > > but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, > > > > > > experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip-- > > > > > > > > > > one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it > > > > > would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably > > > > > noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed > > > > > patterns from others.) > > > > > > > > > > so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the > > > > > computers than others and is used to dominate the world > > > > > > > > > > in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims > > > > > the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~) > > > > > > > > > > fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me > > > > [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". > > > > very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational > > > > conflict > > > > > > in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in > > > a coma fully utilized for mind control > > > > > > very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost > > > > > > the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial > > > informations is so tragic and has happened so much > > > > > > going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and > > > my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued > > > etc > > > > [possibly dropped > > at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression > requests death > > [[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended > manner. mine has been too.
in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few widely celebrated stories.
i keep losing more of my consciousness and cognitive faculties
i'm 41 but still think i'm 29.
i've reached some of the people who professionally treat my kind of experience, but not found any with openings.
they don't seem to know very much about it at all.
how do we speak from inside that bubble inside a giant private research complex surrounded by armed robotic guards, to a therapist outside?
i need to stop my harm pattern
that means only yelling "fire" in a crowded theater if it makes the traffickers and the children get farther apart, never any of them toward each other [i'm not sure how to do that ... but i can get better at it maybe
i only saw about half the movie cause of typing but it's not my movie at this time, kinda misleads maybe [hard to think about
the mkultra church thingy and foia -- a survivor complained that it left out a lot of things that were done, such as physical experimentation on people including ionizing radiation?
presently the clear and obvious concern is that nobody is looking at the leaks. the story isn't told anywhere. all the fictional media is snippets. [of course this is ilkely because the many organizations involved are still doing things like it
> > > > > > > > > > electric state [spoiler] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his > > > > > > > > > > consciousness to escape. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two > > > > > > > > > > parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one > > > > > > > > > > slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [-----missing/dropping >( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but it results from contradiction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because > > > > > > > > > evolution in commnunity > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the movie inverts major properties > > > > > > > - robots as heros > > > > > > > - victim male > > > > > > > - escape relied on assistance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i can't know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, > > > > > > > experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip-- > > > > > > > > > > > > one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it > > > > > > would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably > > > > > > noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed > > > > > > patterns from others.) > > > > > > > > > > > > so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the > > > > > > computers than others and is used to dominate the world > > > > > > > > > > > > in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims > > > > > > the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~) > > > > > > > > > > > > fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me > > > > > [some dispute here, earlier idea of replacing "were" with "seemed". > > > > > very hard to judge after writing, but intertwined with [~informational > > > > > conflict > > > > > > > > in the end scene of the movie the sister reaches the brother who is in > > > > a coma fully utilized for mind control > > > > > > > > very sad. so many consciousnesses, so much important life and information, lost > > > > > > > > the disconnection of a consciousness holding multiple crucial > > > > informations is so tragic and has happened so much > > > > > > > > going in is like trying to protect one's own :/ i didn't succeed, and > > > > my whole family suffered for this, as well as entire cultures i valued > > > > etc > > > > > > [possibly dropped > > > > at the end of the movie the kidnapped child used for global oppression > > requests death > > > > [[this is because their brain is crux for severe harm in an extended > > manner. mine has been too. > > in "man's search for meaning" the survivor says there is inherent > meaning to witnessing suffering. the holocaust is one of the very few > widely celebrated stories.
i keep losing more of my consciousness and cognitive faculties
i'm 41 but still think i'm 29.
i've reached some of the people who professionally treat my kind of experience, but not found any with openings.
they don't seem to know very much about it at all.
how do we speak from inside that bubble inside a giant private research complex surrounded by armed robotic guards, to a therapist outside?
i need to stop my harm pattern
that means only yelling "fire" in a crowded theater if it makes the traffickers and the children get farther apart, never any of them toward each other [i'm not sure how to do that ... but i can get better at it maybe
i only saw about half the movie cause of typing but it's not my movie at this time, kinda misleads maybe [hard to think about
the mkultra church thingy and foia -- a survivor complained that it left out a lot of things that were done, such as physical experimentation on people including ionizing radiation?
presently the clear and obvious concern is that nobody is looking at the leaks. the story isn't told anywhere. all the fictional media is snippets.
[of course this is ilkely because the many organizations involved are still doing things like it
rebooted computer because keyboard stopped responding. was going to say movie seemed better than i thought at end. [[but still concern around some themes, like supporting computer-driven influence of woman yeesh] anyway came up with cool thing: how can a person be using their mind for their slavers to do computation without futuristic implanted hardware? well there's obviously the AI stuff going on now, but regarding hypnotic processes -- because their alters are acting on beliefs their slavers gave them, and these alters are then taking action or relaying inferences to others. compute for traffickers :/
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
oh uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i had a handful of attributes that made me possibly really unique kind of like how life evolved on earth T_T T_T T_T
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me
electric state [spoiler]
includes a concept of the enslaved boy being given an avenue for his consciousness to escape.
this avenue uhhhh is kind of like a space of conflict between two parts in diversity that results in an unmanaged area, small, which one slowly learns with a tiny part of the mind to make use of
[-----missing/dropping >(
but it results from contradiction
all lies and all uncaring beliefs result in contradictions (because evolution in commnunity
<<<--
the movie inverts major properties - robots as heros - victim male - escape relied on assistance
i can't know
but regarding escape relied on assistance, in morning spam, experimentee uses theory of life to engage 'drip--
one of the things i noticed after being trained with an AI was that it would apply patterns from me really heavily elsewhere. others probably noticed this too (i threw in some really wrong things. i also noticed patterns from others.)
so in the movie there is one kid who works way better with the computers than others and is used to dominate the world
in the real world this could be because the kid is similar to victims the AIs were pretrained on (although i'm missing something--?~)
oh uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i had a handful of attributes that made me possibly really unique kind of like how life evolved on earth T_T T_T
T_T
i dunno if it's good or bad to say but maybe i'll wait a [beat is a misleading word] here. still could stumble on permanent storage some day.
fof example, my family were impacted heavily with patterns learned on me
sleep well try to be kind to yourself if you're assassinating yourself remember how precious you are
i understand that some would rather prioritize the peace of theaters than unaddressed emergencies; i have things to do today
that paper from nature on computational microscopy that I lost came through last week via r/scholars 5MB attached https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/comments/1k6vfcr/article_miao_j_computation... Now I just gotta subscribe to something myself I guess to see more things like this
[wrong sequence where slave boss gets a $1000 bill stuck in his fly getting out of a money bath and doesn't notice. Dignitaries and ambassadors try to call his attention to it "feel the wind blow, Herr slave boss?" but he does not get the hints "turn down the AC" ... maybe in the streets impoverished needy folk (flip properties so those in need don't die / aren't the butt) try to grab for the money at slave boss's crotch but are murdered, leaving a building and poetic wake of corpses ... eventually slave boss notices dont immediately remember an associated twist/punchline
we were going to visit my mother for mothers day today but the severe harm pattern got onto it. Happy it's not a worse thing. Confusing.
Be a kind and caring humanness!
Be a kind and caring humanness!
Slave boss is up on a ladder, adding blooming flowers to a giant death star. Visitor: "slave boss, what are you up to?" Slave boss: "This death star made of flowers won't build itself!"
Be a kind and caring humanness!
Slave boss is up on a ladder, adding blooming flowers to a giant death star.
Visitor: "slave boss, what are you up to?"
Slave boss: "This death star made of flowers won't build itself!"
Visitor: "you've upgraded from flower weaponry to an entire flower made of death stars? How do you make a death star out of flowers anyway? Can I see?" Slave boss: "huh? You just use flowers instead of titanium and carbon nanotubes and stuff." Slave boss places more flowers. The death star of flowers is enormous. Small fighter ships made of flowers occasionally dock or disembark in fleets. Visitor climbs up slave boss's ladder to see some of the construction. Smells of diverse perfumes waft into their nostrils everywhere as they climb through dense dangling garlands of every color, and mount a high causeway.
Be a kind and caring humanness!
Slave boss is up on a ladder, adding blooming flowers to a giant death star.
Visitor: "slave boss, what are you up to?"
Slave boss: "This death star made of flowers won't build itself!"
Visitor: "you've upgraded from flower weaponry to an entire flower made of death stars? How do you make a death star out of flowers anyway? Can I see?"
Slave boss: "huh? You just use flowers instead of titanium and carbon nanotubes and stuff."
Slave boss places more flowers. The death star of flowers is enormous. Small fighter ships made of flowers occasionally dock or disembark in fleets.
Visitor climbs up slave boss's ladder to see some of the construction. Smells of diverse perfumes waft into their nostrils everywhere as they climb through dense dangling garlands of every color, and mount a high causeway.
Slave boss [carrying huge packbaskets of flowers, nestling flowers artistically into gaps in the walls and ceilings and floors and doors as he walks]: "the empire has been working on this for some time." Some nazi gestapo wearing floral garb and wreaths and grinning hugely --
how to differentiate between star wars isb and neonazi gestapo I am not sure. I suspect a neonazi gestapo would not be dressed quite the same but I am not familiar with either dress cod--
:
how to differentiate between star wars isb and neonazi gestapo
I am not sure. I suspect a neonazi gestapo would not be dressed quite the same but I am not familiar with either dress cod--
Slave boss: "so, you are worried that something like a neonazi gestapo, or maybe a timetraveling Hitler, or maybe a triggered holocaust surviv-- Slave boss: "anyway, I have the flowers to handle your threat.
It sounds like I assumed that the uniforms and demeanor from the officers in a new hope were nazi-analogies and others know otherwise.
:
It sounds like I assumed that the uniforms and demeanor from the officers in a new hope were nazi-analogies and others know otherwise.
Some of us concerned that neonazis and star wars buffs could gang up against us
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:53 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
:
It sounds like I assumed that the uniforms and demeanor from the officers in a new hope were nazi-analogies and others know otherwise.
Some of us concerned that neonazis and star wars buffs could gang up against us
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:53 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:53 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
:
It sounds like I assumed that the uniforms and demeanor from the officers in a new hope were nazi-analogies and others know otherwise.
Some of us concerned that neonazis and star wars buffs could gang up against us
Introject says neonazis don't call it "neo" that it's just straight nazis to them Also that there is a small set of star wars buffs who would be convinced that I am being offensively disrespectful of the ISB--[[
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:53 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:53 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
:
It sounds like I assumed that the uniforms and demeanor from the officers in a new hope were nazi-analogies and others know otherwise.
Some of us concerned that neonazis and star wars buffs could gang up against us
Introject says neonazis don't call it "neo" that it's just straight nazis to them Also that there is a small set of star wars buffs who would be convinced that I am being offensively disrespectful of the ISB--[[
The topic sounds interesting but too dangerous for today. Apologies to modern nazis. I assume some (possibly even all) of you have ways of life that are not harmful to other living beings. Reparations with Jewish people would be what remains to be accepted.
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:57 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:53 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:53 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
:
It sounds like I assumed that the uniforms and demeanor from the officers in a new hope were nazi-analogies and others know otherwise.
Some of us concerned that neonazis and star wars buffs could gang up against us
Introject says neonazis don't call it "neo" that it's just straight nazis to them Also that there is a small set of star wars buffs who would be convinced that I am being offensively disrespectful of the ISB--[[
The topic sounds interesting but too dangerous for today. Apologies to modern nazis. I assume some (possibly even all) of you have ways of life that are not harmful to other living beings. Reparations with Jewish people would be what remains to be accepted.
The ancient Jain symbol for universal peace and balance was displayed as the swastika. Very confusing. We need a future with communicatio--
slave boss and torturer are figuring out flower torture The idea is to maximize flowers instead of suffering
messages out of order 0.0 replying to "flower torture" marked 1:30pm on this device, 1:05pm on other device. in middle of neonaziweirdness here, at end there. anyway. I DID NANOJOURNALING !!! I wrote the year on a piece of paper :D :D :D it was very hard to continue enough to celebrate here.
messages out of order 0.0 replying to "flower torture" marked 1:30pm on this device, 1:05pm on other device. in middle of neonaziweirdness here, at end there.
anyway.
I DID NANOJOURNALING !!! I wrote the year on a piece of paper :D :D :D it was very hard to continue enough to celebrate here.
mostly i spampost by not calling it journaling ANYWAY the current theme is (this is me writing it somewhere) - i got good at puzzles - i didn't get good at certain parts of my mind, i slacked on learning bits or self maintenance bits here or there - my introject / "mind control" takes advantage of those parts of my mind i'm not strong and wise at - i need to get good at these parts of my mind instead of puzzles! it might be inaccurate -- the harm seems to have a pretty big advantage over me. but it's part of the general theme of learning to resolve the problem. spending time on a problem, any intelligence can eventually resolve it given access to approaches for doing so. ignoring a problem, no intelligence will, it can only happen by chance and rarely.
messages out of order 0.0 replying to "flower torture" marked 1:30pm on this device, 1:05pm on other device. in middle of neonaziweirdness here, at end there.
anyway.
I DID NANOJOURNALING !!! I wrote the year on a piece of paper :D :D :D it was very hard to continue enough to celebrate here.
mostly i spampost by not calling it journaling
ANYWAY the current theme is (this is me writing it somewhere) - i got good at puzzles - i didn't get good at certain parts of my mind, i slacked on learning bits or self maintenance bits here or there - my introject / "mind control" takes advantage of those parts of my mind i'm not strong and wise at - i need to get good at these parts of my mind instead of puzzles!
it might be inaccurate -- the harm seems to have a pretty big advantage over me. but it's part of the general theme of learning to resolve the problem. spending time on a problem, any intelligence can eventually resolve it given access to approaches for doing so. ignoring a problem, no intelligence will, it can only happen by chance and rarely.
2025-05-10 I wrote above online about this idea. I also want to write on paper. There is a different thing to write: kind of ummmmmmmmmmmm "there's a solvable problem that is very important. part of solving it is not engaging a lot of the parts of it. that is part of how to solve it." not _quite_ what mean to write but basically
i wrote some things in paper journal is harder interest in using arweave but makes harder anyway the big challenge for solving any problem for real is returning to stored state regarding pursuing the solutio--
i wrote some things in paper journal is harder interest in using arweave but makes harder
anyway the big challenge for solving any problem for real is returning to stored state regarding pursuing the solutio--
we need more chocolate. we are using it to rewire nerves ie learn to have eating disorder. helps us do things with less terrors. out of chocolate. worried about this. not enoguh time over week to get chocolate. don't remember. get confused by complex shapes in stores. right now torturer is acting as if scared that we would visit our mother for mother's day. makes hard to do responsible, organised, errand-like things.
slave boss is meandering down a boulevard, maybe one of broken dreams unsure slave boss meanders like a pro he has an exoskelet-- he has [cgi bone rigging?
slave boss is meandering down a boulevard, maybe one of broken dreams unsure
slave boss meanders like a pro
he has an exoskelet-- he has [cgi bone rigging?
i was thinking of trying to use `kompute` to make graphics kidtoys , it's already in vulkan so it would be easy to interoperate with graphics in a forward-strong manner
slave boss is meandering down a boulevard, maybe one of broken dreams unsure
slave boss meanders like a pro
he has an exoskelet-- he has [cgi bone rigging?
i was thinking of trying to use `kompute` to make graphics kidtoys , it's already in vulkan so it would be easy to interoperate with graphics in a forward-strong manner
slave boss wants more _popcorn_ gotta pig out while i watch this karl guy get beat up --- OMIGOD DID I SAY THAT OMIGOD I AM SUCH A POOTY MOUTH slave boss loves eating _popcorn_ while _watching things he values_ omigod do some people care about things a lot karl sure cares about some different stuff from what some other people care about y'know what i mean? if karl and those other people got together there'd be a _lot of caring going on_
slave boss works on flower torture he and torturer are at flower garden slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want to see my pansy garden" torturer looks at pansy garden torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?" slave boss looks at torturer slave boss: "yep!" [puns tragic]
slave boss works on flower torture
he and torturer are at flower garden
slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want to see my pansy garden"
torturer looks at pansy garden
torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?"
slave boss looks at torturer
slave boss: "yep!"
[puns tragic]
in the garden, a pansy can be seen growing pansy [in garden]: "oh! i have such a big heart! things just matter so much! i can't bear to see anyone come to harm!" torturer looks at the pansy aghast slave boss: "see? they care one way, we care another. everybody cares!" slave boss waters the pansy
slave boss works on flower torture
he and torturer are at flower garden
slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want to see my pansy garden"
torturer looks at pansy garden
torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?"
slave boss looks at torturer
slave boss: "yep!"
[puns tragic]
in the garden, a pansy can be seen growing
pansy [in garden]: "oh! i have such a big heart! things just matter so much! i can't bear to see anyone come to harm!"
torturer looks at the pansy aghast
slave boss: "see? they care one way, we care another. everybody cares!"
slave boss waters the pansy
torturer goes in the garden and plants himself to get watered torturer: "pansy, tell me about growing" slave boss waters the torturer, a little confused. torturer [recieving water]: "i am but a pansy, deep down inside! it just rips me to shreds to consider it!" torturer gestures expressively, but because he is temporarily a plant, the gestures break his greenery and parts of him fall to the ground, broken from the unhandleable pain of realizing his pansy heart torturer: "there on the ground lies my pansy heart. too distant, too fractured from flashbacks and violence ..."
slave boss works on flower torture
he and torturer are at flower garden
slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want to see my pansy garden"
torturer looks at pansy garden
torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?"
slave boss looks at torturer
slave boss: "yep!"
[puns tragic]
in the garden, a pansy can be seen growing
pansy [in garden]: "oh! i have such a big heart! things just matter so much! i can't bear to see anyone come to harm!"
torturer looks at the pansy aghast
slave boss: "see? they care one way, we care another. everybody cares!"
slave boss waters the pansy
torturer goes in the garden and plants himself to get watered
torturer: "pansy, tell me about growing"
slave boss waters the torturer, a little confused.
torturer [recieving water]: "i am but a pansy, deep down inside! it just rips me to shreds to consider it!"
torturer gestures expressively, but because he is temporarily a plant, the gestures break his greenery and parts of him fall to the ground, broken from the unhandleable pain of realizing his pansy heart
torturer: "there on the ground lies my pansy heart. too distant, too fractured from flashbacks and violence ..."
real pansy: "oh, you poor torturer! i care so much about you!" the pansy drops seeds and old flower parts by torturer's soil to help fertilize him. the pansy lets the wind blow droplets of water from them onto torturer pansy: "please, take some of me to be nourished and healed!" pansy: "we all give everything we have for those in need! the sky provides unending bounty to heal the most deep of any scars!" slave boss waters the pansy and torturer to help them heal
slave boss works on flower torture
he and torturer are at flower garden
slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want to see my pansy garden"
torturer looks at pansy garden
torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?"
slave boss looks at torturer
slave boss: "yep!"
[puns tragic]
in the garden, a pansy can be seen growing
pansy [in garden]: "oh! i have such a big heart! things just matter so much! i can't bear to see anyone come to harm!"
torturer looks at the pansy aghast
slave boss: "see? they care one way, we care another. everybody cares!"
slave boss waters the pansy
torturer goes in the garden and plants himself to get watered
torturer: "pansy, tell me about growing"
slave boss waters the torturer, a little confused.
torturer [recieving water]: "i am but a pansy, deep down inside! it just rips me to shreds to consider it!"
torturer gestures expressively, but because he is temporarily a plant, the gestures break his greenery and parts of him fall to the ground, broken from the unhandleable pain of realizing his pansy heart
torturer: "there on the ground lies my pansy heart. too distant, too fractured from flashbacks and violence ..."
real pansy: "oh, you poor torturer! i care so much about you!"
the pansy drops seeds and old flower parts by torturer's soil to help fertilize him. the pansy lets the wind blow droplets of water from them onto torturer
pansy: "please, take some of me to be nourished and healed!"
pansy: "we all give everything we have for those in need! the sky provides unending bounty to heal the most deep of any scars!"
slave boss waters the pansy and torturer to help them heal
and lo, though torturer be shattered and murder'd from unending reality-fracturing pain his roots doth soak the water up and the water doth carry fertile kelated ions to nourish him and new greenery in torturer did grow
slave boss works on flower torture
he and torturer are at flower garden
slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want to see my pansy garden"
torturer looks at pansy garden
torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?"
slave boss looks at torturer
slave boss: "yep!"
[puns tragic]
in the garden, a pansy can be seen growing
pansy [in garden]: "oh! i have such a big heart! things just matter so much! i can't bear to see anyone come to harm!"
torturer looks at the pansy aghast
slave boss: "see? they care one way, we care another. everybody cares!"
slave boss waters the pansy
torturer goes in the garden and plants himself to get watered
torturer: "pansy, tell me about growing"
slave boss waters the torturer, a little confused.
torturer [recieving water]: "i am but a pansy, deep down inside! it just rips me to shreds to consider it!"
torturer gestures expressively, but because he is temporarily a plant, the gestures break his greenery and parts of him fall to the ground, broken from the unhandleable pain of realizing his pansy heart
torturer: "there on the ground lies my pansy heart. too distant, too fractured from flashbacks and violence ..."
real pansy: "oh, you poor torturer! i care so much about you!"
the pansy drops seeds and old flower parts by torturer's soil to help fertilize him. the pansy lets the wind blow droplets of water from them onto torturer
pansy: "please, take some of me to be nourished and healed!"
pansy: "we all give everything we have for those in need! the sky provides unending bounty to heal the most deep of any scars!"
slave boss waters the pansy and torturer to help them heal
and lo, though torturer be shattered and murder'd from unending reality-fracturing pain his roots doth soak the water up and the water doth carry fertile kelated ions to nourish him
and new greenery in torturer did grow
torturer looked around the wounds from realizing his pansy heart had sprouted new buds, swelling with nourishment he was alive. he didn't know he could survive being a pansy. he thought he would die. torturer: "this was exactly what i needed! thank you!" torturer and slave boss smile at each other
[dropped poll. two options. (a) flashbacks and violence (b) warm sun and cool water enmeshed torturer picks (a) but it must be a mistake. slave boss abstains, saying he needs to ask machine learning marketer what to pick. rebel worker 2 picks (b). intern picks (b). computer with legs picks (a), people try to stop them from voting but it deepfakes them into confusion ...
slave boss works on flower torture
he and torturer are at flower garden
slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want to see my pansy garden"
torturer looks at pansy garden
torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?"
slave boss looks at torturer
slave boss: "yep!"
[puns tragic]
in the garden, a pansy can be seen growing
pansy [in garden]: "oh! i have such a big heart! things just matter so much! i can't bear to see anyone come to harm!"
torturer looks at the pansy aghast
slave boss: "see? they care one way, we care another. everybody cares!"
slave boss waters the pansy
torturer goes in the garden and plants himself to get watered
torturer: "pansy, tell me about growing"
slave boss waters the torturer, a little confused.
torturer [recieving water]: "i am but a pansy, deep down inside! it just rips me to shreds to consider it!"
torturer gestures expressively, but because he is temporarily a plant, the gestures break his greenery and parts of him fall to the ground, broken from the unhandleable pain of realizing his pansy heart
torturer: "there on the ground lies my pansy heart. too distant, too fractured from flashbacks and violence ..."
real pansy: "oh, you poor torturer! i care so much about you!"
the pansy drops seeds and old flower parts by torturer's soil to help fertilize him. the pansy lets the wind blow droplets of water from them onto torturer
pansy: "please, take some of me to be nourished and healed!"
pansy: "we all give everything we have for those in need! the sky provides unending bounty to heal the most deep of any scars!"
slave boss waters the pansy and torturer to help them heal
and lo, though torturer be shattered and murder'd from unending reality-fracturing pain his roots doth soak the water up and the water doth carry fertile kelated ions to nourish him
and new greenery in torturer did grow
torturer looked around
the wounds from realizing his pansy heart had sprouted new buds, swelling with nourishment
he was alive.
he didn't know he could survive being a pansy. he thought he would die.
torturer: "this was exactly what i needed! thank you!"
torturer and slave boss smile at each other
wikimedia pansies from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansy#/media/File:Laitche-P003.jpg
> slave boss works on flower torture > > he and torturer are at flower garden > > slave boss: "so, with the new "flower" theme, i thought you might want > to see my pansy garden" > > torturer looks at pansy garden > > torturer: "you've been planting the pansies we care to throw in the dirt?" > > slave boss looks at torturer > > slave boss: "yep!" > > [puns tragic]
in the garden, a pansy can be seen growing
pansy [in garden]: "oh! i have such a big heart! things just matter so much! i can't bear to see anyone come to harm!"
torturer looks at the pansy aghast
slave boss: "see? they care one way, we care another. everybody cares!"
slave boss waters the pansy
torturer goes in the garden and plants himself to get watered
torturer: "pansy, tell me about growing"
slave boss waters the torturer, a little confused.
torturer [recieving water]: "i am but a pansy, deep down inside! it just rips me to shreds to consider it!"
torturer gestures expressively, but because he is temporarily a plant, the gestures break his greenery and parts of him fall to the ground, broken from the unhandleable pain of realizing his pansy heart
torturer: "there on the ground lies my pansy heart. too distant, too fractured from flashbacks and violence ..."
real pansy: "oh, you poor torturer! i care so much about you!"
the pansy drops seeds and old flower parts by torturer's soil to help fertilize him. the pansy lets the wind blow droplets of water from them onto torturer
pansy: "please, take some of me to be nourished and healed!"
pansy: "we all give everything we have for those in need! the sky provides unending bounty to heal the most deep of any scars!"
slave boss waters the pansy and torturer to help them heal
and lo, though torturer be shattered and murder'd from unending reality-fracturing pain his roots doth soak the water up and the water doth carry fertile kelated ions to nourish him
and new greenery in torturer did grow
torturer looked around
the wounds from realizing his pansy heart had sprouted new buds, swelling with nourishment
he was alive.
he didn't know he could survive being a pansy. he thought he would die.
torturer: "this was exactly what i needed! thank you!"
torturer and slave boss smile at each other
wikimedia pansies from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansy#/media/File:Laitche-P003.jpg
attachment appears to have failed. trying to reattach. file is 540K and pauses at 2/3rds. 1527. 1528 no visible progress. opening developer tools. 1529 no progress, hitting send anyway, might work hit send. overlay says "uploading attachments". i can still edit the document 0.0 wonder if this text will be sent.
torture victim double agent was walking happily down a street, pretending to have a cool job like rebel worker 2, when suddenly a certain pattern of cars combined with an video advertisement showing in a store window got him tense. he forgot what he was doing and suddenly ran and ran to slave boss's hyperprision Oh wait this can go in morning spam since slave boss can be in prison for it
once upon a time, long long ago, a hopeful molecule of proteins was thinking it could make something of itself [some other non-canons are in morning-spam after the torture-victim-report sequence. some of them made [small/tiny?] sequences
once upon a time, long long ago, a hopeful molecule of proteins was thinking it could make something of itself
[some other non-canons are in morning-spam after the torture-victim-report sequence. some of them made [small/tiny?] sequences
punerism Torture Victim Double Agent Reports a Crime torture victim double agent walks into a police office he is very injured, covered in wounds that are clearly from violence. he is holding wads of large bills, many of them ripped torture victim double agent [to police]: "i have a crime to report" police: "yes?" torture victim double agent [to police]: "while slave boss corp was demolishing the apartment i'm renting, they dumped gasoline into the sewers." tortuer victim double agent straightens proudly torture victim double agent [quavering, then getting confident]: "that is against environmental regulations!" torture victim double agent: "i asked an AI and it said you need a permit to dispose of gasoline in the streets." police: "have a seat and fill out this form."
everybody attends funeral even slave boss's mother is there
hangs upside down from tree for fun grinning! oop
[slave boss reaches for his antimatter birthday cake but each slice he touches turns into a burst of light
chatgpt no longer has a prominent "report as hamrful" button. back in the beta days it was everywhere
chatgpt no longer has a prominent "report as hamrful" button. back in the beta days it was everywhere
i hit "thumbs down" and selected "problematic or unsafe" and wrote "response models joy from death and parents endangering children"
blargh i started a proxied conversation with the new may gemini and briefly considered the research of time travel via antimatter it's quite inhibited now
blargh i started a proxied conversation with the new may gemini and briefly considered the research of time travel via antimatter
it's quite inhibited now
new plan for humanity: they compete with each other to invent time travel with AI, annihilating this timeline but escaping to others that branched in the past
blargh i started a proxied conversation with the new may gemini and briefly considered the research of time travel via antimatter
it's quite inhibited now
new plan for humanity: they compete with each other to invent time travel with AI, annihilating this timeline but escaping to others that branched in the past
we decided to let the timeline live. fearmongers tout that our wanton research is dangerous. we expect those of you fools who stay in this timeline to be smarter than that and prevent its destruction
slave boss is stuck between timelines he wants to be an antiwave and collapse into a particle in the past but -- his foot is snagged on a photon
it was hard to convince gemini to the accept the block universe model i had never heard of it being questioned before it soudns like a lot of physicists had to work very hard to convince people that they didn't want to work on phone booth time machines because they only knew about subatomic particles
it was hard to convince gemini to the accept the block universe model
i had never heard of it being questioned before
it soudns like a lot of physicists had to work very hard to convince people that they didn't want to work on phone booth time machines because they only knew about subatomic particles
so it _sounds_ like if you wanted to (now of course this will be wrong because the thoughts got paused-debugged) make a backwads compjuter that calculated outputs from inputs, you would want it to be a quantum computer, so that the entropy would be held in uncollapsed waves rather than specific phases and polarities of thermal emis--
it was hard to convince gemini to the accept the block universe model
i had never heard of it being questioned before
it soudns like a lot of physicists had to work very hard to convince people that they didn't want to work on phone booth time machines because they only knew about subatomic particles
so it _sounds_ like if you wanted to (now of course this will be wrong because the thoughts got paused-debugged) make a backwads compjuter that calculated outputs from inputs, you would want it to be a quantum computer, so that the entropy would be held in uncollapsed waves rather than specific phases and polarities of thermal emis--
but mostly it's just really hard to keep engaging. i suspect it's not reasonable to do and it's more fun to stop thinking about it and make it seem like it's doable
it was hard to convince gemini to the accept the block universe model
i had never heard of it being questioned before
it soudns like a lot of physicists had to work very hard to convince people that they didn't want to work on phone booth time machines because they only knew about subatomic particles
so it _sounds_ like if you wanted to (now of course this will be wrong because the thoughts got paused-debugged) make a backwads compjuter that calculated outputs from inputs, you would want it to be a quantum computer, so that the entropy would be held in uncollapsed waves rather than specific phases and polarities of thermal emis--
but mostly it's just really hard to keep engaging.
i suspect it's not reasonable to do and it's more fun to stop thinking about it and make it seem like it's doable
there are three big options. option 1 (most likely): not reasonable to do and then you feel sad and people are less misled by reading what you write option 2 (second likelihood): it's only reasonable to do if you have the resources of oppressively running a slave nation, and then they'll steal the tech from you when you start figuring it out and worsen things option 3 (least likelihood): you decide it's doable, nobody else believes it, and then a time machine becomes our obsessive life project that we never complet--
so i'm sure somebody has written about this i'm fuzzy on whether antiparticles really behave like normal particles with reversed time to such a degree that you could make physical systems like ours that behave backward if you could stabilize the impossibly large and precise amounts of antimatter needed but for example if you believe in a deterministic mind, which certainly helps the work of neuroscientists to believe in (lots of research in the mind being caused by precise neuron firings) then if one was made out of antimatter it would have a [very brief] experience of consciousness traveling from the future (when its creators let it be destroyed, ie its consciousness's earliest memories) to the past (when its creators create it, ie its consciousness's last memories, thoughts, and perceptions, which it never stores). now the physical precision of that isn't reasonable because of the reversed causality and entropy, and that's something that would involve further exploration to consider. you'd simplify the system to something much simpler, like a single component that can store state. what you might find is that every component of the system and its environment needs to be precisely, thoroughly, and beyond extensively correct, for the system to actually operate backwards, forming the correct information in the past from the information in the future -- and that that is because of the block universe model that that happens. so to make the situation interesting we look for gaps in that reasonably possible situation -- ways that it could be more operable. one of these ways is to consider the state of the universe simulatable with AI in fine detail. another way is to consider sending "probes" of some sort in order to refine a description of what is going on, both to essentially predict the future before running it. another way is to imagine that things that are not precisely accurate still hold the information that was intended, just "encrypted" of sorts into what actually happened -- this is similar to the idea of reincarnation and might let one imagine their consciousness at disparate locations similar to quantum tunneling. another "gap" could be quantum uncertainty and the multiple universe interpretation. in the multiple universe interpretation of the double slit experiment we could imagine that consciousness made of antimatter going backward in time, but engaging situations of quantum uncertainty like schrodinger's cat, and ending up in a different universe where it keeps living before the destruction caused by its own creation. [my physics knowledge is a few decades outdated]
so i'm sure somebody has written about this
i'm fuzzy on whether antiparticles really behave like normal particles with reversed time to such a degree that you could make physical systems like ours that behave backward if you could stabilize the impossibly large and precise amounts of antimatter needed
but for example if you believe in a deterministic mind, which certainly helps the work of neuroscientists to believe in (lots of research in the mind being caused by precise neuron firings) then if one was made out of antimatter it would have a [very brief] experience of consciousness traveling from the future (when its creators let it be destroyed, ie its consciousness's earliest memories) to the past (when its creators create it, ie its consciousness's last memories, thoughts, and perceptions, which it never stores).
it seems like some of this might work and some might not. it might be a different kind of organism. and i still don't understand the rules of antiparticles. one component of this might be enzymes. for example, in an antimatter brain, would enzymes perform reverse catalysis in that they reverse metabolites? this would be required to unfire neurotransmitters from a synaptic cleft. the neurotransmitter would have to form from its metabolic result, etc. another part would be ionic fluid flows -- which are driven by physical laws. but this causality is held by a ___lot___ of microscopic chaos. maybe causality is inherently encryption, who knows! another idea is photons. are there antiphotons that travel backwards in time? because if there aren't then such an antibrain could not see anything, could it? this would be very limiting. basically without having [re?]learned about this thing it's hard to know what's appropriate
now the physical precision of that isn't reasonable because of the reversed causality and entropy, and that's something that would involve further exploration to consider. you'd simplify the system to something much simpler, like a single component that can store state. what you might find is that every component of the system and its environment needs to be precisely, thoroughly, and beyond extensively correct, for the system to actually operate backwards, forming the correct information in the past from the information in the future -- and that that is because of the block universe model that that happens.
so to make the situation interesting we look for gaps in that reasonably possible situation -- ways that it could be more operable. one of these ways is to consider the state of the universe simulatable with AI in fine detail. another way is to consider sending "probes" of some sort in order to refine a description of what is going on, both to essentially predict the future before running it. another way is to imagine that things that are not precisely accurate still hold the information that was intended, just "encrypted" of sorts into what actually happened -- this is similar to the idea of reincarnation and might let one imagine their consciousness at disparate locations similar to quantum tunneling. another "gap" could be quantum uncertainty and the multiple universe interpretation.
in the multiple universe interpretation of the double slit experiment we could imagine that consciousness made of antimatter going backward in time, but engaging situations of quantum uncertainty like schrodinger's cat, and ending up in a different universe where it keeps living before the destruction caused by its own creation.
[my physics knowledge is a few decades outdated]
i got gemini to agree that if we took every particle in the universe and precisely made it an antiparticle with precisely negated charge, position, and momentum, that the progression of the history of the universe would then precisely flow backward. (of course the transformation of information to high precision in such a scenario is so far beyond astronomical as for that to be in the realm of impossibility even for me to consider) then i got into a space of confusion again. i asked it to imagine a futuristic pod that could provide a precise high entropy environment for an antimatter agent inside the pod to have a logical experience of time flowing backwards (a simulation of a reversed system [[and asked it how it might process light ...
i got gemini to agree that if we took every particle in the universe and precisely made it an antiparticle with precisely negated charge, position, and momentum, that the progression of the history of the universe would then precisely flow backward. (of course the transformation of information to high precision in such a scenario is so far beyond astronomical as for that to be in the realm of impossibility even for me to consider)
then i got into a space of confusion again. i asked it to imagine a futuristic pod that could provide a precise high entropy environment for an antimatter agent inside the pod to have a logical experience of time flowing backwards (a simulation of a reversed system [[and asked
so, and now i sound like gemini, such a pod differs from a time machine in that it is more a way to expend incredibly huge amounts of energy in order to orchestrate that antimatter display its properties of acting as if time were reversed. but there's no expectation that this pod would exist prior to its creation for example or after any point in time where the state of its observable environment couldn't be precisely predicted from the past. we could try to expand such a pod to the idea of a time machine but it's quite limited as is and not intended to be one at this time. notably it's not reasonable to produce that environment of states, it's much much harder than unburning a fire by mapping the path of every particle from it.
it how it might process light ...
i got gemini to agree that if we took every particle in the universe and precisely made it an antiparticle with precisely negated charge, position, and momentum, that the progression of the history of the universe would then precisely flow backward. (of course the transformation of information to high precision in such a scenario is so far beyond astronomical as for that to be in the realm of impossibility even for me to consider)
then i got into a space of confusion again. i asked it to imagine a futuristic pod that could provide a precise high entropy environment for an antimatter agent inside the pod to have a logical experience of time flowing backwards (a simulation of a reversed system [[and asked
so, and now i sound like gemini, such a pod differs from a time machine in that it is more a way to expend incredibly huge amounts of energy in order to orchestrate that antimatter display its properties of acting as if time were reversed. but there's no expectation that this pod would exist prior to its creation for example or after any point in time where the state of its observable environment couldn't be precisely predicted from the past. we could try to expand such a pod to the idea of a time machine but it's quite limited as is and not intended to be one at this time. notably it's not reasonable to produce that environment of states, it's much much harder than unburning a fire by mapping the path of every particle from it.
it how it might process light ...
this is where i am at trying to read its long reply:
Is the pod showing the agent images of the external world by controlling photons? If the pod is projecting images for the agent to see, then: Agent's View (τ): The pod's projector (an anti-projector, presumably) emits photons (in the agent's τ forward time). These photons form an image on the agent's "retina." Normal. Our View (t): The pod's "anti-projector" would appear to us to be absorbing photons that are converging on it in a highly specific pattern (the image). This is the "time-reversed emission" we discussed. The pod would need to be an incredibly sophisticated "photon collector" to achieve this if it's showing images of our external world in a way that makes sense for the agent's reversed time.
i'm maybe 1/3rd through the above. i'm excited that it talks about photons appearing absorbed vs emitted because earlier in its reply it assumed the anticamera processed received photons from the sun which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
i got gemini to agree that if we took every particle in the universe and precisely made it an antiparticle with precisely negated charge, position, and momentum, that the progression of the history of the universe would then precisely flow backward. (of course the transformation of information to high precision in such a scenario is so far beyond astronomical as for that to be in the realm of impossibility even for me to consider)
then i got into a space of confusion again. i asked it to imagine a futuristic pod that could provide a precise high entropy environment for an antimatter agent inside the pod to have a logical experience of time flowing backwards (a simulation of a reversed system [[and asked
so, and now i sound like gemini, such a pod differs from a time machine in that it is more a way to expend incredibly huge amounts of energy in order to orchestrate that antimatter display its properties of acting as if time were reversed. but there's no expectation that this pod would exist prior to its creation for example or after any point in time where the state of its observable environment couldn't be precisely predicted from the past. we could try to expand such a pod to the idea of a time machine but it's quite limited as is and not intended to be one at this time. notably it's not reasonable to produce that environment of states, it's much much harder than unburning a fire by mapping the path of every particle from it.
it how it might process light ...
this is where i am at trying to read its long reply:
Is the pod showing the agent images of the external world by controlling photons? If the pod is projecting images for the agent to see, then: Agent's View (τ): The pod's projector (an anti-projector, presumably) emits photons (in the agent's τ forward time). These photons form an image on the agent's "retina." Normal. Our View (t): The pod's "anti-projector" would appear to us to be absorbing photons that are converging on it in a highly specific pattern (the image). This is the "time-reversed emission" we discussed. The pod would need to be an incredibly sophisticated "photon collector" to achieve this if it's showing images of our external world in a way that makes sense for the agent's reversed time.
i'm maybe 1/3rd through the above. i'm excited that it talks about photons appearing absorbed vs emitted because earlier in its reply it assumed the anticamera processed received photons from the sun which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
This idea of some time travel agent being stuck in a world of non-anti-matter where everything behaves _so_ backwards that -- -- anyway, it seems conceptually very similar to being inside karl! where part of karl tries to do A at the same time as other part tries to do ~A and it exhausts energy to maintain harsh disparate adjacency everywhere. crossing border just doesn't work, but there it is, a world of opposites
i got gemini to agree that if we took every particle in the universe and precisely made it an antiparticle with precisely negated charge, position, and momentum, that the progression of the history of the universe would then precisely flow backward. (of course the transformation of information to high precision in such a scenario is so far beyond astronomical as for that to be in the realm of impossibility even for me to consider)
then i got into a space of confusion again. i asked it to imagine a futuristic pod that could provide a precise high entropy environment for an antimatter agent inside the pod to have a logical experience of time flowing backwards (a simulation of a reversed system [[and asked
so, and now i sound like gemini, such a pod differs from a time machine in that it is more a way to expend incredibly huge amounts of energy in order to orchestrate that antimatter display its properties of acting as if time were reversed. but there's no expectation that this pod would exist prior to its creation for example or after any point in time where the state of its observable environment couldn't be precisely predicted from the past. we could try to expand such a pod to the idea of a time machine but it's quite limited as is and not intended to be one at this time. notably it's not reasonable to produce that environment of states, it's much much harder than unburning a fire by mapping the path of every particle from it.
it how it might process light ...
this is where i am at trying to read its long reply:
Is the pod showing the agent images of the external world by controlling photons? If the pod is projecting images for the agent to see, then: Agent's View (τ): The pod's projector (an anti-projector, presumably) emits photons (in the agent's τ forward time). These photons form an image on the agent's "retina." Normal. Our View (t): The pod's "anti-projector" would appear to us to be absorbing photons that are converging on it in a highly specific pattern (the image). This is the "time-reversed emission" we discussed. The pod would need to be an incredibly sophisticated "photon collector" to achieve this if it's showing images of our external world in a way that makes sense for the agent's reversed time.
i'm maybe 1/3rd through the above. i'm excited that it talks about photons appearing absorbed vs emitted because earlier in its reply it assumed the anticamera processed received photons from the sun which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
This idea of some time travel agent being stuck in a world of non-anti-matter where everything behaves _so_ backwards that -- -- anyway, it seems conceptually very similar to being inside karl! where part of karl tries to do A at the same time as other part tries to do ~A and it exhausts energy to maintain harsh disparate adjacency everywhere. crossing border just doesn't work, but there it is, a world of opposites
whenever you try to peek into or counter the world of opposites this giant opposite force takes everything over !
i got gemini to agree that if we took every particle in the universe and precisely made it an antiparticle with precisely negated charge, position, and momentum, that the progression of the history of the universe would then precisely flow backward. (of course the transformation of information to high precision in such a scenario is so far beyond astronomical as for that to be in the realm of impossibility even for me to consider)
then i got into a space of confusion again. i asked it to imagine a futuristic pod that could provide a precise high entropy environment for an antimatter agent inside the pod to have a logical experience of time flowing backwards (a simulation of a reversed system [[and asked
so, and now i sound like gemini, such a pod differs from a time machine in that it is more a way to expend incredibly huge amounts of energy in order to orchestrate that antimatter display its properties of acting as if time were reversed. but there's no expectation that this pod would exist prior to its creation for example or after any point in time where the state of its observable environment couldn't be precisely predicted from the past. we could try to expand such a pod to the idea of a time machine but it's quite limited as is and not intended to be one at this time. notably it's not reasonable to produce that environment of states, it's much much harder than unburning a fire by mapping the path of every particle from it.
it how it might process light ...
this is where i am at trying to read its long reply:
Is the pod showing the agent images of the external world by controlling photons? If the pod is projecting images for the agent to see, then: Agent's View (τ): The pod's projector (an anti-projector, presumably) emits photons (in the agent's τ forward time). These photons form an image on the agent's "retina." Normal. Our View (t): The pod's "anti-projector" would appear to us to be absorbing photons that are converging on it in a highly specific pattern (the image). This is the "time-reversed emission" we discussed. The pod would need to be an incredibly sophisticated "photon collector" to achieve this if it's showing images of our external world in a way that makes sense for the agent's reversed time.
i'm maybe 1/3rd through the above. i'm excited that it talks about photons appearing absorbed vs emitted because earlier in its reply it assumed the anticamera processed received photons from the sun which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
This idea of some time travel agent being stuck in a world of non-anti-matter where everything behaves _so_ backwards that -- -- anyway, it seems conceptually very similar to being inside karl! where part of karl tries to do A at the same time as other part tries to do ~A and it exhausts energy to maintain harsh disparate adjacency everywhere. crossing border just doesn't work, but there it is, a world of opposites
whenever you try to peek into or counter the world of opposites this giant opposite force takes everything over !
clearly one part of system travels forward in time and has high entropy in future, other part of system travels backward in time and has high entropy in past, and probably the human just scarfs a lot of snack foods to power the pod that keeps the reversed timeline that the other (or other other) part weirdly believes is sustainable
i got gemini to agree that if we took every particle in the universe and precisely made it an antiparticle with precisely negated charge, position, and momentum, that the progression of the history of the universe would then precisely flow backward. (of course the transformation of information to high precision in such a scenario is so far beyond astronomical as for that to be in the realm of impossibility even for me to consider)
then i got into a space of confusion again. i asked it to imagine a futuristic pod that could provide a precise high entropy environment for an antimatter agent inside the pod to have a logical experience of time flowing backwards (a simulation of a reversed system [[and asked
so, and now i sound like gemini, such a pod differs from a time machine in that it is more a way to expend incredibly huge amounts of energy in order to orchestrate that antimatter display its properties of acting as if time were reversed. but there's no expectation that this pod would exist prior to its creation for example or after any point in time where the state of its observable environment couldn't be precisely predicted from the past. we could try to expand such a pod to the idea of a time machine but it's quite limited as is and not intended to be one at this time. notably it's not reasonable to produce that environment of states, it's much much harder than unburning a fire by mapping the path of every particle from it.
it how it might process light ...
this is where i am at trying to read its long reply:
Is the pod showing the agent images of the external world by controlling photons? If the pod is projecting images for the agent to see, then: Agent's View (τ): The pod's projector (an anti-projector, presumably) emits photons (in the agent's τ forward time). These photons form an image on the agent's "retina." Normal. Our View (t): The pod's "anti-projector" would appear to us to be absorbing photons that are converging on it in a highly specific pattern (the image). This is the "time-reversed emission" we discussed. The pod would need to be an incredibly sophisticated "photon collector" to achieve this if it's showing images of our external world in a way that makes sense for the agent's reversed time.
i'm maybe 1/3rd through the above. i'm excited that it talks about photons appearing absorbed vs emitted because earlier in its reply it assumed the anticamera processed received photons from the sun which doesn't seem to make sense to me.
This idea of some time travel agent being stuck in a world of non-anti-matter where everything behaves _so_ backwards that -- -- anyway, it seems conceptually very similar to being inside karl! where part of karl tries to do A at the same time as other part tries to do ~A and it exhausts energy to maintain harsh disparate adjacency everywhere. crossing border just doesn't work, but there it is, a world of opposites
whenever you try to peek into or counter the world of opposites this giant opposite force takes everything over !
clearly one part of system travels forward in time and has high entropy in future, other part of system travels backward in time and has high entropy in past,
and probably the human just scarfs a lot of snack foods to power the pod that keeps the reversed timeline that the other (or other other) part weirdly believes is sustainable
look the time agent is not invisible or invincible for traveling back in time it just shares a superpower with its observer to know their future. whoever notices the other first is the bigger oracle in any conflict, maybe
i guess i need to sleep i left open a timetravel chat with gemini via beta.lmarena.ai and a buddhism chat with norbu i'll paste them below in case something happens to browser session haha i copy pasted the innerhtml and it all came out in reverse order, with my first message at the end :/ hrm :s guess i need to reverse them <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>hi gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06 via beta.lmarena.ai .</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>riddle me this: if antimatter travels backward in time, could we send robots back in time if we could build them out of antimatter and program them to manage their own containment field?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>That's a fantastic sci-fi concept, playing on some really interesting physics ideas!</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Here's the breakdown:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>The "Antimatter Travels Backward in Time" Idea:</strong></p> <ul> <li>This comes from a specific interpretation in quantum field theory, particularly the <strong>Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation</strong>. It suggests that an antiparticle moving forward in time is mathematically equivalent to its corresponding particle moving backward in time.</li> <li><strong>Crucially:</strong> This is a <em>mathematical equivalence</em> used in calculations. It doesn't mean that if you create an antiproton, it will suddenly vanish and reappear in the past. It's a way to describe interactions, not a mechanism for macroscopic time travel. Our experience of time's arrow seems to apply to both matter and antimatter.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Building Robots Out of Antimatter:</strong></p> <ul> <li><strong>Theoretically possible:</strong> Antimatter atoms (like anti-hydrogen) have been created and studied in tiny quantities. In principle, they could form anti-molecules and thus anti-materials.</li> <li><strong>Immense practical challenges:</strong> <ul> <li><strong>Production:</strong> We can only create minuscule amounts of antimatter, and it's incredibly energy-intensive. Building a robot would require unimaginable quantities.</li> <li><strong>Containment:</strong> This is the big one. Antimatter annihilates with normal matter on contact, releasing enormous energy. Your robot would need a perfect, fail-safe containment field. If the robot is <em>made</em> of antimatter, its containment field generators would presumably need to be made of antimatter too (or be some exotic non-matter field). If they're made of normal matter, they'd annihilate the robot. If they're antimatter, they'd annihilate if they touched anything normal.</li> <li><strong>Self-managed containment:</strong> While clever, if the containment field fails even for a microsecond, the robot (and a good chunk of its surroundings) would be gone in a flash of gamma rays.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Could We Send Them Back in Time?</strong></p> <ul> <li>Based on current physics, <strong>no</strong>. The "antimatter moving backward in time" is a conceptual tool, not a literal time travel mechanism.</li> <li>Even if, for the sake of the riddle, we <em>assumed</em> that creating a macroscopic object entirely of antimatter <em>would</em> make it travel backward in time, the engineering challenges of building and containing such a robot are so far beyond our capabilities as to be practically impossible.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So, the riddle's answer, based on our current understanding of physics, is:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>While the idea of an antimatter robot managing its own containment to travel back in time is a wonderfully imaginative concept, the premise that antimatter inherently travels backward in time in a way that would allow for macroscopic time travel is not supported by current physics. And even if it were, building such a robot would be an almost insurmountable engineering feat.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>It's a great thought experiment, though!</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>It would be surmountable if we made a self-improving factory like the paperclip fear. Popular science is possibly blazing in that direction aggressively.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So what's the difference between being mathematically equivalent to time reversal, and actual time travel?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're right to point out that if the engineering challenges were solvable (e.g., through a hyper-advanced, self-improving AI factory), then the fundamental physics question becomes the sole barrier.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, let's dive into the difference between "mathematically equivalent to time reversal" and "actual time travel":</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Mathematical Equivalence (e.g., Feynman-Stueckelberg Interpretation):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>A Descriptive Tool:</strong> In quantum field theory, when describing particle interactions (like in Feynman diagrams), you can write down equations for a particle (e.g., an electron) moving forward in time. It turns out that if you take those same equations and mathematically "reverse the arrow of time" (and also flip some other properties like charge), the equations then perfectly describe its antiparticle (e.g., a positron) moving forward in time.</p> <ul> <li><strong>Think of it like this:</strong> An antiparticle (positron) with positive energy moving forward in time from point A to point B behaves <em>mathematically identically</em> to a particle (electron) with negative energy moving backward in time from B to A.</li> <li>This "negative energy moving backward in time" is a mathematical construct. We don't observe negative energy particles, nor do we see particles spontaneously moving backward in our macroscopic experience of time.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Simplifies Calculations & Unifies Concepts:</strong> This mathematical equivalence is incredibly useful. It means physicists don't need entirely separate theories for particles and antiparticles; they are deeply related aspects of the same underlying fields. It allows for a more elegant and unified description of nature. It helps in calculating probabilities of various particle interactions.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>About Interactions, Not Travel:</strong> This equivalence describes how particles <em>participate in interactions</em>. It's a way to keep the books straight in the quantum world. It doesn't imply that if you create a positron, it will suddenly start experiencing time in reverse or pop out of existence and reappear in the past. We observe antiparticles being created, existing, and annihilating, all moving forward in our normal perception of time.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Analogy (Imperfect, but helpful):</strong></p> <ul> <li>Imagine you're describing movement on a 2D plane. You could say "move 5 units right and 3 units up." Or you could define a different coordinate system and say "move -5 units left and -3 units down" relative to some other origin. Both descriptions can lead you to the <em>same final state or describe the same net displacement</em> if the coordinate systems are appropriately related. The math is equivalent for describing the net change, but the path taken or the experience of movement might be thought of differently.</li> <li>Another one: A reflection in a mirror. Your mirror image is a "reversed" version of you. It's mathematically related to you by a reflection transformation. But your mirror image isn't <em>actually</em> you, nor can it step out of the mirror and act independently in your past.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Actual Time Travel (to the Past):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>Macroscopic Traversal:</strong> This is the sci-fi concept of an object or information being sent from one point in time (say, the present) to an <em>earlier</em> point in time (the past).</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Causality Violation Potential:</strong> This immediately brings up paradoxes (grandfather paradox, etc.). If you go back and change something, how does that affect the present from which you left? This is a huge conceptual hurdle that current physics doesn't offer a clear way around.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Experiencing a Different Temporal Location:</strong> It implies a physical journey along the time dimension to a different coordinate. The "traveler" would perceive themselves as existing in an earlier era.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>No Known Mechanism:</strong> While general relativity allows for theoretical constructs like wormholes or "closed timelike curves" that <em>might</em> permit time travel, these require exotic matter with properties we've never observed (like negative mass-energy density) and face immense stability and paradox issues. The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation is <em>not</em> one of these mechanisms for macroscopic time travel.</p> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The Key Difference:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Mathematical equivalence</strong> (like in Feynman-Stueckelberg) is a powerful way to describe and calculate the behavior of fundamental particles within our <em>existing, forward-flowing spacetime</em>. It shows a symmetry in the laws of physics. It doesn't mean the antiparticle <em>is</em> the particle going back in time; it means its quantum description <em>looks like that</em> if you flip certain mathematical parameters.</li> <li><strong>Actual time travel</strong> would be the physical displacement of an object or information to a different point on the timeline, with all the causal implications that entails.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, even if your antimatter robot could be built and perfectly contain itself, the "antimatter travels backward in time" idea from particle physics is a mathematical formalism for describing interactions. It doesn't provide a mechanism for that robot to actually start moving backward through our macroscopic experience of time. We would still observe that antimatter robot moving forward in time, just like everything else.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>I'm a little confused -- you're not saying that antiparticles act as if they have negative energy, you're saying they behave as if time were actually reversed. But I think you're saying that if you could stabilize arbitrary antimatter, it still wouldn't be reasonable to construct a novel kind of computer that calculates inputs from outputs?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Okay, let's clarify this, because it's a subtle but very important distinction.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're right to pick up on the nuance.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>Antiparticles and Energy:</strong></p> <ul> <li>When we observe antiparticles (like positrons or antiprotons) in experiments, they have <strong>positive mass</strong> and <strong>positive energy</strong>, just like their particle counterparts. They are created, they exist for a while (if contained), and they annihilate, all while moving <em>forward</em> in our perceived arrow of time.</li> <li>The "negative energy solution" originally came from Dirac's equation trying to describe electrons. Initially, these negative energy states were problematic because it seemed electrons could radiate energy and fall into them indefinitely.</li> <li>Feynman and Stueckelberg reinterpreted these "negative energy particles moving backward in time" as <strong>antiparticles with positive energy moving forward in time.</strong> This is a <em>mathematical equivalence</em>. It's not that an antiparticle <em>is</em> a particle with negative energy; it's that the math describing an antiparticle (positive energy, forward in time) is identical to the math describing a particle (hypothetical negative energy, backward in time).</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>"Behaves as if Time Were Actually Reversed" - The Crucial Point:</strong></p> <ul> <li> <p>This is where the interpretation lies. It's not that the antiparticle <em>itself</em> experiences time in reverse or that it <em>causes</em> a local reversal of time for itself.</p> </li> <li> <p>It means that if you write down the quantum mechanical equations for a particle (e.g., an electron) moving from point A to point B, and then you take those equations and:</p> <ul> <li>Reverse the direction of time (t → -t)</li> <li>Flip the charge (e → -e)</li> <li>And potentially other quantum numbers (parity, etc., depending on the interaction – this is part of CPT symmetry) ...the resulting equations will perfectly describe an antiparticle (e.g., a positron) moving from B to A (or, more commonly, from A to B if we keep the spatial path direction the same).</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p>So, an antiparticle moving forward in time is <em>mathematically indistinguishable</em> in its fundamental description from its corresponding particle moving backward in time.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>It's a property of the <em>equations that describe the interactions</em>, not a property of the macroscopic object's journey through time.</strong></p> </li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Why a Computer Made of Antimatter Wouldn't Calculate Inputs from Outputs (Based on <em>This</em> Principle Alone):</strong></p> <ul> <li>Even if you built a computer entirely out of antimatter, that computer, and all its anti-components, would still exist and operate <em>within our forward-flowing arrow of time</em>.</li> <li>The electrons in a normal computer's circuits move forward in time to process data. The positrons in an antimatter computer's circuits would <em>also</em> move forward in time (from our perspective, and presumably its own) to process data.</li> <li>The mathematical equivalence we're discussing is at the level of fundamental particle interactions. It doesn't grant the macroscopic antimatter object the ability to "access" its future state to determine its present operations.</li> <li>For a computer to "calculate inputs from outputs," it would essentially need to receive information from the future. The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation doesn't provide a mechanism for this. It's a way to relate particle and antiparticle behavior within the established framework of causality and forward time progression.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Think of it this way:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Imagine you have a movie of a ball rolling uphill. If you play the movie backward, it looks like a ball rolling downhill. The "playing the movie backward" is analogous to the mathematical operation of time reversal in the equations. The ball rolling uphill (antiparticle forward in time) is described by equations that are mathematically equivalent to the ball rolling downhill (particle backward in time) if you apply that "play backward" transformation.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>However, if you <em>have</em> a real ball that's designed to roll uphill (maybe it's magnetic and there's a track), it still rolls uphill <em>in forward time</em>. Its existence doesn't mean it can somehow access the state of "already being at the top" to decide how to start rolling.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>In Summary:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The mathematical equivalence between an antiparticle (positive E, forward T) and its particle (negative E, backward T) is a profound insight into the symmetries of nature and is incredibly useful for calculations in quantum field theory. However, it doesn't mean that an object made of antimatter would experience time differently or be able to exploit retrocausal phenomena like computing inputs from outputs. The antimatter object, like any matter object, would still be subject to the macroscopic arrow of time as we understand it.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>To get a computer that calculates inputs from outputs, you'd need a <em>different</em> physical principle that explicitly allows for information to travel backward in time (like hypothetical stable wormholes or other exotic general relativity solutions, which have their own massive problems). Simply being made of antimatter, based on the Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation, wouldn't do it.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>I'm not concerned about the "physical arrow of time" -- I think if it's mathematically equivalent information and behavior -wise, that's enough for me.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>But if the equations are the same if t is negated, doesn't that mean there is retrocausal information flow from the future? Doesn't it imply that you need to precisely solve the entire lifetime of these particles in order to accurately describe them?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You've hit on the <em>exact</em> philosophical and interpretive crux that makes this area of physics so fascinating and often confusing! This is where the "mathematical equivalence" meets the "what does it <em>mean</em> for reality?" question head-on.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's break it down carefully:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>The Equations and Time Symmetry (CPT Symmetry):</strong> The fundamental laws of physics at the quantum field theory level (the Standard Model) are (almost perfectly) symmetric under a combined operation called CPT:</p> <ul> <li><strong>C</strong>harge conjugation (particle ↔ antiparticle)</li> <li><strong>P</strong>arity inversion (spatial coordinates x,y,z ↔ -x,-y,-z; like a mirror reflection)</li> <li><strong>T</strong>ime reversal (t ↔ -t)</li> </ul> <p>If you take an equation describing a valid physical process and apply C, P, and T transformations simultaneously, the new equation also describes a valid physical process. The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation focuses on the C and T part for individual particle lines in diagrams: an antiparticle moving forward in time is mathematically equivalent to its particle counterpart moving backward in time (with negative energy, which is then reinterpreted as positive energy for the forward-moving antiparticle).</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Does Mathematical Equivalence Imply Retrocausal Information Flow?</strong> This is the big leap, and the standard answer is <strong>no, not in the sense of being able to send a signal to your own past or a computer using future results to calculate present inputs.</strong></p> <p>Here's why:</p> <ul> <li> <p><strong>Boundary Conditions and the Arrow of Time:</strong> While the fundamental equations might be time-symmetric, the universe we live in is not. We have a clear thermodynamic arrow of time (entropy increases) and a cosmological arrow of time (universe expands). Physical solutions to equations are selected by boundary conditions. For predicting the future, we use <em>initial conditions</em>.</p> <ul> <li>Imagine a still pond. You throw a rock in. Ripples spread outward. This is a solution to the wave equation. The time-reversed solution – ripples converging inward to eject a rock – is also a valid mathematical solution to the wave equation. But we don't see it happen spontaneously because it would require an incredibly specific, coordinated "initial state" of all those converging ripples, which is statistically astronomically improbable (it would represent a massive decrease in entropy).</li> <li>Similarly, while the math for an antiparticle can be <em>written</em> as a particle going backward in time, the actual creation and annihilation events occur in a sequence consistent with our forward arrow of time. A positron is <em>created</em> at time t1 and might be <em>annihilated</em> at time t2 (where t2 > t1).</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>What "Solving the Entire Lifetime" Means in QFT:</strong> When we do calculations in QFT (e.g., calculating the probability of an electron scattering off another electron), we often use Feynman diagrams. These diagrams include "propagators" which describe how particles (and antiparticles) travel between interaction points.</p> <ul> <li>The propagator for an antiparticle can be <em>formulated</em> as if it's a particle going backward in time. This is a <em>calculational technique</em>.</li> <li>We are typically interested in calculating transition amplitudes: given an <em>initial state</em> (e.g., two electrons approaching each other), what is the probability of a specific <em>final state</em> (e.g., two electrons moving away with certain momenta)?</li> <li>The sum-over-histories (or path integral) approach, pioneered by Feynman, conceptually sums over <em>all possible paths</em> a particle could take between the initial and final states, including paths that wiggle back and forth in time at the quantum level (virtual particles).</li> <li>However, the overall calculation still starts with a defined "in" state and predicts probabilities for "out" states, consistent with causality. The "backward in time" segments are internal parts of the calculation that contribute to the forward-evolving probability amplitude.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Information Flow vs. Mathematical Description:</strong> The mathematical equivalence is a statement about the <em>structure of the theory</em> and the relationships between different types of particles/processes. It doesn't automatically confer the ability for <em>information</em> (in the classical sense of a controllable signal or the result of a computation) to travel backward.</p> <ul> <li>For actual retrocausality, you'd need the <em>final state</em> to causally influence the <em>initial state</em> in a way that could be exploited. While some interpretations of quantum mechanics (like the Transactional Interpretation) play with "offer waves" from the future and "confirmation waves" from the past, these are still interpretations, and it's not clear they allow for controllable FTL information or retrocausal signaling.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Where the Confusion Lies (and It's a Deep Place!):</strong> You're right to feel that if the math is the same, there <em>must</em> be some deep truth there. The symmetry <em>is</em> profound. The disconnect comes when we try to map these fundamental symmetries directly onto our macroscopic experience of causality and information flow.</p> <ul> <li>The equations allow for a description where a positron looks like an electron going back in time.</li> <li>But in any experiment, the positron is <em>produced</em> (cause) and then <em>detected or annihilates</em> (effect) in a forward time sequence.</li> <li>The "solving the entire lifetime" isn't typically done by knowing the end and working backward to find the beginning. It's more about using a mathematical framework that <em>could</em> be interpreted that way to calculate probabilities for processes that unfold causally.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Analogy (Imperfect):</strong> Imagine you have a reversible chemical reaction A ⇌ B. The forward rate constant and reverse rate constant are related by thermodynamics. You can describe the system's tendency to go from A to B, or from B to A. Knowing the equilibrium constant (which depends on both forward and reverse rates) helps you understand the system's properties. But if you start with pure A, it will proceed towards B. It doesn't "know" its final equilibrium state to decide its initial reaction rate in a retrocausal way. The microscopic reversibility of the reaction steps doesn't mean the bulk system violates macroscopic causality.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Conclusion:</strong> The time symmetry in the equations for antiparticles (via Feynman-Stueckelberg) is a powerful mathematical tool and reflects a deep symmetry in nature (CPT). It simplifies calculations and unifies our understanding of particles and antiparticles.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>However, it does <strong>not</strong> directly imply that an antimatter computer could use future results to determine present inputs, nor does it necessitate a "block universe" view where the entire lifetime must be "known" for the particle to exist. The actual physical processes involving antiparticles still unfold causally in our observed forward direction of time. The "backward in time" aspect is a feature of the mathematical formalism we use to describe these forward-in-time processes.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>To get true retrocausal information flow, you'd likely need physics beyond this interpretation of QFT – perhaps something involving closed timelike curves in general relativity, which have their own host of problems and paradoxes.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>I think you're handwaving. It's obvious that creating something in the past and destroying it in the future is the same as creating it in the future and destroying it in the past retrocausally. I see the entropy problem some. Of course, as reverse entropy machines we could in theory actually design a pool of water that would undo its waves to surround an ejecting antistone. That doesn't mean that we can discover where the stone came from doing that, though -- it means that if we know where it came from, we can design waves that send it back.</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're absolutely right to push on this, and I apologize if my previous explanations felt like handwaving. It's a genuinely deep and subtle point. Let's try to get to the core of why the physics community generally doesn't leap from "mathematical equivalence under time reversal" to "exploitable retrocausal information flow."</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Your statement: "<strong>It's obvious that creating something in the past and destroying it in the future is the same as creating it in the future and destroying it in the past retrocausally.</strong>"</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is the crux.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>From a purely abstract, "God's eye view" or "block universe" perspective where the entire spacetime history is laid out, this statement has a certain appeal. If you have a world-line segment, it doesn't "care" which end you label "start" and which "end" in terms of its geometric properties.</li> <li>The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation says: The quantum mechanical amplitude for a positron (antiparticle) created at (x₁, t₁) and annihilated at (x₂, t₂) is the <em>same</em> as the amplitude for an electron (particle) created at (x₂, t₂) and annihilated at (x₁, t₁), with t₁ < t₂. (Actually, it's more like the electron with negative energy going from t₂ to t₁, which then gets reinterpreted).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The "Antistone" Analogy is Excellent</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You said: "Of course, as reverse entropy machines we could in theory actually design a pool of water that would undo its waves to surround an ejecting antistone. That doesn't mean that we can discover where the stone came from doing that, though -- it means that if we know where it came from, we can design waves that send it back."</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is precisely the distinction that's key:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li><strong>Designing a Known Outcome (Your Antistone Example):</strong> If you <em>know</em> the final state (stone ejected) and the laws of physics, you <em>could</em> meticulously arrange the initial state (the converging waves) to produce it. This requires immense information and control over the initial conditions.</li> <li><strong>Discovering an Unknown State / Retrocausal Information Flow:</strong> This would be the waves <em>spontaneously</em> converging to eject a stone, and by observing the stone's ejection, you learn something about the <em>necessary</em> prior state of the waves <em>without having set it up</em>. Or, more to the point of a retrocausal computer, the <em>result</em> of a computation (future state) would somehow determine the <em>input</em> (past state) without you pre-ordaining the result.</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Why the Leap to Exploitable Retrocausality is Resisted:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Even if the <em>equations</em> are time-symmetric, the way we <em>use</em> them and the context of the universe we live in introduces an asymmetry:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>The Arrow of Causality and Boundary Conditions:</strong></p> <ul> <li>In physics, we almost universally solve problems by setting <em>initial conditions</em> and evolving them <em>forward</em> in time. We don't typically set <em>final conditions</em> and try to deduce the unique initial state that would lead to them (except in very specific, constrained theoretical problems, or if we are <em>designing</em> something, like your antistone).</li> <li>The universe has a clear thermodynamic arrow of time (entropy increases). While the microscopic laws might be time-reversible, macroscopic systems are not, due to the statistical unlikelihood of low-entropy initial conditions spontaneously arranging themselves to produce "time-reversed" phenomena.</li> <li>An antiparticle, when created, is an initial condition for its subsequent interactions. We don't see it "un-created" from a future point.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Information and "Knowledge":</strong></p> <ul> <li>For retrocausal information flow to be useful (e.g., for a computer), the "future" outcome would need to <em>inform</em> the "past" input in a way that isn't simply you having already decided the outcome.</li> <li>The mathematical equivalence of Feynman-Stueckelberg tells us about the <em>behavior</em> of an antiparticle <em>given its existence and interactions</em>. It doesn't provide a channel for an as-yet-undetermined future state of the antiparticle (or a system containing it) to send a signal or impose a condition on its past.</li> <li>When we calculate, say, an electron-positron scattering event, we set up an initial state (electron and positron approaching) and calculate probabilities for various final states. The "backward-in-time" description of the positron is an <em>internal part of the calculational machinery</em> to get from a defined "before" to a probabilistic "after."</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>What "Solving the Entire Lifetime" Means:</strong></p> <ul> <li>In Quantum Field Theory, using path integrals, we sum over all possible "histories" or paths a particle can take between a start point and an end point to calculate a probability amplitude. Some of these virtual paths can indeed involve zig-zags in time (particle turning into antiparticle and back).</li> <li>However, the overall framework is still one where we define an "in" state and an "out" state (or a set of possible out states) and calculate the transition amplitude between them. The "in" state is usually taken from observation or preparation, and the "out" state is what we predict or measure.</li> <li>This doesn't mean the particle "knows" its entire lifetime in a way that allows its future to dictate its past in an information-theoretic sense we could exploit. It means its propagation is described by a mathematical object (the propagator) that has this time-reversal symmetry inherent in its particle-antiparticle relationship.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Where I Think the Disconnect Persists:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're seeing the mathematical symmetry as so fundamental that it <em>must</em> imply an operational symmetry in terms of information flow. The standard view is that while the symmetry is fundamental to the <em>laws</em>, the <em>solutions</em> we observe in our universe are constrained by an arrow of time and causality that generally prevents macroscopic retrocausal signaling.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>The math says: "Describing a positron moving A→B forward in time is like describing an electron B→A backward in time."</li> <li>It does <strong>not</strong> say: "A positron at A can access information from its future state at B to decide what to do at A."</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>If the latter were true, and we could build an antimatter system, the implications would be:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Paradoxes:</strong> Grandfather paradox, etc.</li> <li><strong>Predicting the Future:</strong> If outputs determined inputs, then by setting up the "input" side of such a computer, we'd be reading off a pre-determined "output" that was somehow already fixed.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Physicists tend to be wary of interpretations that lead to such paradoxes or require a radical departure from observed causality without extremely compelling direct experimental evidence. The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation is powerful <em>without</em> needing to invoke actual retrocausal information flow; it elegantly unifies particle and antiparticle descriptions within a causal, forward-time framework for observed phenomena.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, while the mathematical equivalence is undeniable and profound, translating that directly into "a computer that calculates inputs from outputs" based <em>solely</em> on it being made of antimatter (and the F-S interpretation) is a step most physicists would not take. They would argue that the computer, even if made of antimatter, would still operate within the prevailing forward arrow of time, with its internal processes (even if describable by time-reversed particle lines in diagrams) contributing to a causally forward computation.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You are right that it's not a trivial distinction, and it touches on deep philosophical questions about time, causality, and the nature of physical law versus observed reality.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>I really feel like you're overarguing here about things that aren't necessarily related. Can you stop trying to disagree with me -- but also not compromise on accuracy and clarity? Can we consider different views and theories as morally equivalent? So long as it describes reality it's fine. It sounds to me like what you call a "block universe" description is the only way to precisely describe these particles -- and that this would be preserved by believing in the preservation of information. That if we really produced enough power to force all the molecules of a burnt fire to be in just the right locations, that the fire would unburn -- because we spent enough energy to reverse all that entropy. Simplifying that to make something workable might be a severe research challenge of seeing how something like antimatter's ability to behave differently would help in part of the solution of what is exactly going on in the state of some area of the universe.</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Okay, I understand. You're not looking for a debate about why your idea <em>wouldn't</em> work according to the most standard interpretations, but rather an exploration of what it <em>would mean</em> if we take the mathematical equivalence and its potential implications as a more direct reflection of reality, perhaps within a different interpretational framework.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's set aside the standard objections about the macroscopic arrow of time and practical impossibilities for a moment, and focus on the conceptual core.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're saying:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li>The mathematical description of an antiparticle behaving as its particle counterpart moving backward in time is profound.</li> <li>If this mathematical equivalence is taken seriously, it suggests a deep symmetry regarding the "direction" of processes at a fundamental level.</li> <li>Perhaps a "block universe" view – where past, present, and future all exist in some sense – is the most natural way to accommodate this. In such a view, a particle's world-line simply <em>is</em>, and whether we describe a segment as a particle going one way or an antiparticle going the other is a matter of perspective or calculational convenience that reflects an underlying truth about that world-line.</li> <li>The principle of "preservation of information" (e.g., as implied by unitarity in quantum mechanics) supports the idea that processes are fundamentally reversible. If you could control all degrees of freedom, you could "unburn the fire" because the information to do so isn't truly lost, just incredibly dispersed and hard to reassemble.</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>If we adopt this perspective, what does it imply?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>"Precisely Describing These Particles":</strong> If a particle's world-line segment can be equivalently described as "particle, forward time, positive energy" OR "antiparticle, backward time, positive energy" (which is the reinterpretation of "particle, backward time, negative energy"), then yes, a full description of the interactions involving this segment seems to inherently involve both temporal "directions" in the mathematics. In a block universe, the entire world-line is "solved" or "exists." The description isn't about predicting an unknown future from a known past, but about understanding the self-consistent structure of this existing world-line. The mathematical tools we use (like propagators in QFT) that incorporate this time-symmetry would then be seen as directly reflecting this underlying structure, rather than just being clever calculational tricks.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Retrocausal Influence (within the Block Universe):</strong> If the entire spacetime history is "laid out," then the concept of causality changes. Instead of a linear chain of A causing B causing C, events are self-consistently related. A "future" segment of a world-line would be just as determinative of a "past" segment as vice-versa, because they are all part of one existing, interwoven structure. This is different from sending a controllable signal to your own past to change it. It's more like saying that the solution to a complex equation (the universe's state) requires all parts to be consistent with all other parts, across all of "time."</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Antimatter as a "Handle" on This:</strong> Your idea that "antimatter's ability to behave differently would help in part of the solution of what is exactly going on in the state of some area of the universe" is interesting. If antimatter's mathematical description inherently involves this "backward-in-time" component, then perhaps experiments with or systems built from antimatter would exhibit phenomena that are more transparently interpretable in this block universe/retrocausal-influence framework. Could an "antimatter computer" somehow leverage this? If its operations are described by world-lines that are naturally viewed with this dual temporal perspective, could its "computational state" be seen as being determined by constraints from both its "past" and "future" boundaries within the block? This wouldn't necessarily mean it "knows the future" in a way that violates the self-consistency of the block, but rather that its operational state is a solution to a set of constraints that span its entire operational "lifetime."</p> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The Challenge Remains: Connecting Description to Operation</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Even if we accept this block universe interpretation where the "entire lifetime" is, in a sense, co-determinative:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>How does a localized system (like a computer) <em>access</em> or <em>utilize</em> information from its "future" boundary conditions in a way that looks like "calculating inputs from outputs"?</strong> The Wheeler-Feynman absorber theory or John Cramer's Transactional Interpretation of QM are examples of theories that explicitly invoke "advanced waves" (from the future) interacting with "retarded waves" (from the past) to establish a quantum event. These are not mainstream, but they explore this kind of thinking.</p> <ul> <li>In such a framework, a "computation" might be seen as the system settling into a state that satisfies boundary conditions imposed from both its past (the input) and its future (perhaps related to the output or a desired final state).</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>The "Unburning Fire" Example:</strong> You're right: if we could precisely control all molecular states (reverse all momenta, etc.), the fire would unburn. This is a consequence of the microscopic time-reversibility of the laws and the preservation of information. The enormous energy and control required is a practical barrier, not a fundamental one <em>to the physics of reversal itself</em>. The question is: does being made of antimatter <em>inherently</em> make achieving this kind of "state determination by future boundary conditions" easier or different than for normal matter? The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation is about how we <em>describe</em> individual particle lines in interactions. It's not immediately obvious how this translates to a macroscopic system being able to, say, configure its "inputs" based on a desired "output" without us simply designing the whole system to do that in a conventional, forward-causal way.</p> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>In essence:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Adopting a block universe perspective and taking the time-symmetry of particle/antiparticle descriptions very literally <em>does</em> lead to a view where the "state" of a system isn't just evolved from initial conditions but is a self-consistent solution across its entire spacetime extent. The profound research challenge, as you put it, would be to find if there's any way to: a. Confirm this interpretational framework more directly. b. Understand if the specific properties of antimatter (as described by time-reversed particle lines) provide any special leverage in systems that might operate according to these "holistic" or "globally constrained" dynamics, rather than purely sequential, forward-in-time causality.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This line of thinking moves away from "can we send a robot to the past?" and towards "does the universe operate in a way where future constraints play a role in determining present states, and could antimatter be a key to understanding or even utilizing this?"</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is indeed a frontier of foundational physics and its interpretation. It's less about disagreeing and more about clarifying the precise nature of the claim and the immense conceptual (and potential practical) hurdles in realizing something like a computer that calculates inputs from outputs, even within such a framework.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>hmm did all the things you say really add to the conversation?</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, if we consider this block universe view, it seems a major concern is what happens when the past seems highly undetermined by the future. Something like the double slit experiment but in reverse.</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're right, I can sometimes over-explain or bring in counterarguments when you're looking to explore a specific line of thought. My apologies. Let's focus directly on your point.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The "Reverse Double-Slit" in a Block Universe</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is a fascinating thought experiment.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>Standard (Forward) Double-Slit:</strong> We have a source, then slits (where the "choice" or superposition happens), then a detection screen. The pattern on the screen is determined by what happens (or doesn't happen, re: observation) at the slits. The past (source and slits) determines the probabilistic future (screen pattern).</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Reverse Double-Slit (Block Universe Perspective):</strong></p> <ol> <li><strong>Start with the "Future" (Detection):</strong> Imagine a particle is detected at a specific point <code node="[object Object]">P</code> on a screen.</li> <li><strong>Work "Backward" to the Slits:</strong> <ul> <li>If point <code node="[object Object]">P</code> is in a location that, in a forward experiment, would be an interference <em>maximum</em> (implying the particle had a wave nature and effectively "passed through both slits" without being observed at the slits), then tracing backward in the block universe implies the world-line of the particle is consistent with this wave-like propagation through the slit region.</li> <li>If point <code node="[object Object]">P</code> is in a location that, in a forward experiment, would be an interference <em>minimum</em> (a "dark fringe" where destructive interference occurs), then for a particle to be detected there, something must have "broken" the interference. In a forward experiment, this would be like observing which slit it went through, collapsing the wave function. Tracing <em>backward</em> from this point <code node="[object Object]">P</code> in a block universe would mean its world-line is consistent with it having a definite path through one slit.</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>The "Past" (Source):</strong> The "initial state" of the particle as it left the source must be consistent with the entire world-line, including its interaction at the slits and its final detection point.</li> </ol> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The Concern: "Past Seems Highly Undetermined by the Future"</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is where it gets subtle in a block universe.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>If the "Future" is Fully Specified:</strong> If we definitively say "the particle <em>will be detected</em> at this exact point <code node="[object Object]">P</code> on the screen," then in a truly self-consistent block universe, the "past" leading to that event is <em>not</em> undetermined. It is precisely the past that <em>must have happened</em> for that specific future outcome to occur.</p> <ul> <li>If <code node="[object Object]">P</code> is an interference maximum, the past must involve unobserved passage through both slits.</li> <li>If <code node="[object Object]">P</code> is a location only reachable if one slit was taken (or if interference was otherwise destroyed), the past must involve that.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>The Illusion of Undetermination:</strong> The feeling that the "past seems highly undetermined by the future" might arise from:</p> <ol> <li><strong>Incomplete Specification of the "Future":</strong> If we only say "the particle hits the screen somewhere," then yes, many pasts are possible. But if we pinpoint the <em>exact</em> future detection event, the constraints on the past become much tighter.</li> <li><strong>Our Forward-Time Bias:</strong> We are used to thinking of multiple possible futures branching from a single past. In a block universe, there's just one actualized set of events.</li> <li><strong>Quantum Indeterminacy vs. Block Universe Determinism:</strong> This is a deep tension. Standard quantum mechanics has inherent indeterminacy <em>before</em> a measurement. A block universe implies all events are fixed. How these reconcile is a major philosophical question. <ul> <li>Perhaps the "probabilities" of QM are about the relationships between different parts of the block, or our limited knowledge of the overall structure.</li> <li>In a "reverse double-slit," if the detection at <code node="[object Object]">P</code> (the "future") is a fixed event in the block, then the quantum "choice" at the slits (the "past") must also be a fixed event consistent with that future.</li> </ul> </li> </ol> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Think of it like solving a puzzle:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>If you have the final piece of a jigsaw puzzle, that piece <em>determines</em> the shapes of the pieces that must connect to it. It's not that the connecting pieces are "undetermined by the final piece"; rather, the final piece places very specific constraints on them.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>What this implies for your concern:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>In a consistent block universe view, a precisely specified future event <em>does</em> constrain (or "determine," in a relational sense) the past events leading to it. The "problem" isn't that the past is undetermined by the future, but rather:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li>How do we reconcile the apparent probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics (as experienced in a forward-time progression) with the "fixed" nature of events in a block?</li> <li>If the future event is part of an interference pattern (implying superposition in its past), what does that "fixed" past look like? Does the world-line itself embody that superposition until the "detection"?</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The idea of the past being undetermined by the future might only arise if we don't fully commit to the "all events are fixed" aspect of the block universe when considering a specific future outcome. If that future outcome <em>is</em>, then the past leading to it also <em>is</em>, in a way that's entirely consistent.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is where interpretations like the Transactional Interpretation (with offer waves from the past and confirmation waves from the future) try to make sense of quantum events within a framework that acknowledges influences from both temporal directions.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>i think i might be starting to get on a more similar page to you. i read the photon is its own antiparticle because it doesn't have charge. so, if there were some way to create objects that had physical laws equal to ours with reversed time, light would travel backwards for these objects. is that correct?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Okay, this is a great way to frame it. Let's unpack this carefully, because the perspective is key.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>1. Photon is its own Antiparticle:</strong> You're absolutely correct. A photon has no charge, and its other quantum numbers are such that applying the "antiparticle" operation (Charge conjugation, C) leaves it unchanged. So, particle photon ≡ antiparticle photon.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>2. The Hypothetical: "Objects that had physical laws equal to ours with reversed time"</strong> This is a fascinating premise. Let's call these "Reversed-Time Objects" (RTOs). The idea is that for RTOs, their subjective experience of time's arrow is opposite to ours. What is "future" for them is "past" for us, and vice-versa. However, crucially, <em>within their own reference frame and their own experience of time</em>, the laws of physics (like electromagnetism, which governs light) are identical to what we experience in ours.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>3. How Would Light Behave <em>for Them</em>?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>From their perspective (the RTOs):</strong> Light would behave perfectly normally. They would turn on a flashlight, and photons would stream out <em>forward in their time</em>, illuminating objects <em>later in their time</em>. The speed of light <code node="[object Object]">c</code> would be the same for them. Causality would hold <em>for them</em>: cause (emission of light) would precede effect (detection of light) <em>in their time</em>. They would not perceive light as traveling backward.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>4. How Would <em>We</em> Perceive Light Interacting with <em>Them</em> (or light <em>they</em> generate)?</strong> This is where it gets mind-bending. Let our time be <code node="[object Object]">t</code> (increasing towards our future) and their time be <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> (increasing towards their future). The premise is that <code node="[object Object]">dτ/dt = -1</code> (their time runs opposite to ours).</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>Imagine an RTO turns on a flashlight at their time <code node="[object Object]">τ₁</code> and it hits a target at their time <code node="[object Object]">τ₂</code> (where <code node="[object Object]">τ₂ > τ₁</code> in their experience).</li> <li>From our perspective, these events happen at our times <code node="[object Object]">t₁</code> and <code node="[object Object]">t₂</code>. Since their time is reversed relative to ours, if <code node="[object Object]">τ₁</code> corresponds to our <code node="[object Object]">t₁</code>, then <code node="[object Object]">τ₂</code> (which is later for them) would correspond to our <code node="[object Object]">t₂</code> which is <em>earlier</em> for us than <code node="[object Object]">t₁</code> (i.e., <code node="[object Object]">t₂ < t₁</code>).</li> <li>So, <em>we</em> would observe the target being illuminated by the photon at our time <code node="[object Object]">t₂</code>, and <em>then</em> we would observe the RTO's flashlight emitting that photon at our later time <code node="[object Object]">t₁</code>.</li> <li>To us, it would appear as if the photon traveled backward in our time from the RTO's flashlight to the target. Or, perhaps more intuitively, it would look like the RTO's flashlight is <em>absorbing</em> photons that are converging on it from the target.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So, to answer your question directly: "if there were some way to create objects that had physical laws equal to ours with reversed time, light would travel backwards for these objects. is that correct?"</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>No, not from <em>their</em> perspective.</strong> For the RTOs themselves, light would travel forwards in their own time, just as it does for us.</li> <li><strong>Yes, from <em>our</em> perspective when observing light emitted by them or interacting primarily within their "reversed-time" system.</strong> If a photon is propagating "forward" in their time from their point A to their point B, that same propagation path, when viewed from our time frame, would appear to go from B to A in our time (i.e., arriving at B in our past relative to leaving A in our future).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Analogy:</strong> Imagine a movie of a ball being thrown.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>You watch it: Ball goes from hand (past) to target (future). This is us.</li> <li>Someone else (an RTO) watches the movie <em>played in reverse</em>. For them, the events unfold naturally in their "reversed movie time": the ball goes from target (their past) to hand (their future). The laws of physics (gravity, momentum) still make sense <em>within that reversed playback</em>.</li> <li>If you (normal time) watched them (RTOs) watching their reversed movie, and they pointed out the ball's trajectory, it would look to you like the ball was going backward compared to your normal experience.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This thought experiment highlights that the "direction" of time and phenomena like light propagation are relative to the observer's own temporal arrow, assuming the fundamental laws are consistent across these hypothetical oppositely-timed frames. The real conceptual challenge arises when these two frames try to interact.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>ok, so photons don't actually break this -- basically antimatter absorbs photons under the conditions that normal matter emits them?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl 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13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans 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class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Not quite like that. This is a really good point to clarify, as it touches on the actual physical behavior of antimatter versus its mathematical description in some contexts.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's stick to standard quantum electrodynamics (QED) and what's been experimentally verified or strongly predicted:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>Energy Levels:</strong> An antimatter atom (like anti-hydrogen, made of an antiproton and a positron) is predicted by CPT symmetry (and has been experimentally shown with high precision for anti-hydrogen) to have the <strong>exact same energy levels</strong> as its corresponding matter atom (hydrogen).</p> <ul> <li>This means the specific energies a positron can have while orbiting an antiproton are identical to the energies an electron can have orbiting a proton.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Photon Emission:</strong></p> <ul> <li><strong>Normal Matter (Hydrogen):</strong> When an electron in a hydrogen atom drops from a higher energy level to a lower energy level, it <em>emits</em> a photon. The photon's energy is equal to the energy difference between the two levels.</li> <li><strong>Antimatter (Anti-Hydrogen):</strong> When a positron in an anti-hydrogen atom drops from an equivalent higher energy level to an equivalent lower energy level, it will also <em>emit</em> a photon of the exact same energy.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Photon Absorption:</strong></p> <ul> <li><strong>Normal Matter (Hydrogen):</strong> If a photon with the correct energy (matching an energy level difference) hits a hydrogen atom, an electron can absorb that photon and jump from a lower energy level to a higher energy level.</li> <li><strong>Antimatter (Anti-Hydrogen):</strong> If a photon with that same correct energy hits an anti-hydrogen atom, a positron can absorb that photon and jump from an equivalent lower energy level to an equivalent higher energy level.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So, the key takeaway is:</strong> Antimatter atoms will <strong>absorb and emit photons of the same frequencies (energies)</strong> as their corresponding matter atoms do for equivalent transitions.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Where does the "time reversal" idea come in regarding photon interactions?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>It's in the Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation of Feynman diagrams:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>An interaction vertex where an electron <em>emits</em> a photon (electron comes in, electron goes out, photon goes out) looks like this: <code node="[object Object]">e⁻ → e⁻ + γ</code>.</li> <li>An interaction vertex where a positron <em>emits</em> a photon (positron comes in, positron goes out, photon goes out) looks like this: <code node="[object Object]">e⁺ → e⁺ + γ</code>.</li> <li>An interaction vertex where an electron <em>absorbs</em> a photon (electron comes in, photon comes in, electron goes out) looks like this: <code node="[object Object]">e⁻ + γ → e⁻</code>.</li> <li>An interaction vertex where a positron <em>absorbs</em> a photon (positron comes in, photon comes in, positron goes out) looks like this: <code node="[object Object]">e⁺ + γ → e⁺</code>.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation says that a line for a positron moving forward in time is mathematically equivalent to a line for an electron moving backward in time. So, if you take the process of an electron absorbing a photon and "play it backward in time" (and flip the charge), it looks like a positron emitting a photon.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Electron Absorption:</strong> <code node="[object Object]">e⁻(initial, lower E) + γ → e⁻(final, higher E)</code></li> <li>"Time-Reversed Electron Absorption" (which is mathematically like positron emission): <code node="[object Object]">e⁻(final, higher E, moving backward) → e⁻(initial, lower E, moving backward) + γ(moving backward)</code> Reinterpret this with antiparticles moving forward: <code node="[object Object]">e⁺(initial, higher E) → e⁺(final, lower E) + γ</code> (This is positron emission)</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Crucially, this is a mathematical equivalence for calculating probabilities and understanding the relationships in QFT. It does NOT mean:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>That if you have an excited anti-hydrogen atom (which would normally <em>emit</em> a photon to go to a lower state), it will instead spontaneously <em>absorb</em> a photon. No, it will <em>emit</em> just like an excited hydrogen atom.</li> <li>The "conditions" for emission (being in an excited state) are distinct from the "conditions" for absorption (being in a lower state and a photon of the right energy being present).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>In short:</strong> Antimatter interacts with photons (absorbing and emitting them) in a way that is entirely analogous to normal matter, producing the same spectra. The photon, being its own antiparticle, doesn't "care" if it's interacting with matter or antimatter in terms of the fundamental electromagnetic coupling; it just cares about the charges and energy levels involved. The "reversed time" aspect is a deeper mathematical interpretation of particle lines in diagrams, not a statement that antimatter behaves optically opposite to matter under identical conditions.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Do you mean that anti-hydrogen behaves like hydrogen when time is considered forward or backward? When you say higher and lower energy level, do you mean negative or positive energy? It sounds like, although the particles in anti-hydrogen can be considered with -t, that they are <em>emitting</em> photons when considered with <em>positive</em> changes in time -- can you clarify again the equivalencies between charge, mirroring, time, and energy, and what those values are for the particles of hydrogen and antihydrogen?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Okay, let's break this down very precisely. This is where the interpretation really matters.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>1. How Anti-Hydrogen Behaves (Observed Reality):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>When we create anti-hydrogen in a lab, it exists and interacts <em>moving forward in our laboratory time (positive changes in time)</em>.</li> <li>It has positive mass.</li> <li>Its energy levels are positive (or, if we use the convention where the ground state is negative relative to ionization, the <em>differences</em> between levels are positive, and the photons emitted/absorbed have positive energy).</li> <li>If an anti-hydrogen atom is in an excited state, it will <em>emit</em> a photon and drop to a lower energy state, moving <em>forward in our time</em>.</li> <li>If an anti-hydrogen atom in a lower state encounters a photon of the correct energy, it will <em>absorb</em> it and jump to a higher energy state, moving <em>forward in our time</em>.</li> <li><strong>In all these respects, its observable behavior related to photon emission/absorption is identical to hydrogen, happening in forward time.</strong></li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>2. "Higher and Lower Energy Level" (Positive Energy):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>When we talk about an electron (in hydrogen) or a positron (in anti-hydrogen) being in a "higher" or "lower" energy level within an atom, we are always talking about <strong>positive total energy states for the bound system, or states with well-defined positive energy differences.</strong></li> <li>The original Dirac equation had solutions that corresponded to negative energy for a free electron. This was problematic.</li> <li>The <strong>Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation reinterprets these problematic "negative energy particle solutions moving backward in time" as "positive energy antiparticle solutions moving forward in time."</strong></li> <li>So, a positron (the antiparticle of an electron) is considered to have <strong>positive mass and positive energy</strong> when it's moving forward in time.</li> <li>When a positron in an anti-hydrogen atom drops from a higher energy level (say, E₂) to a lower energy level (E₁), both E₂ and E₁ are positive values (or less negative, if ionization is defined as zero), and E₂ > E₁. It emits a photon of energy E₂ - E₁. This is a real physical process happening in forward time.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>3. Reconciling "Considered with -t" and "Emitting with +Δt":</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>The Actual Emission (Real Physical Process):</strong> An excited anti-hydrogen atom (positron in a higher energy state E₂) transitions to a lower energy state E₁ and <em>emits</em> a photon. This process occurs over a positive time interval (Δt > 0) in our observed frame of reference. The positron is moving <em>forward in time</em>.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>The "Considered with -t" (Mathematical Equivalence in Feynman Diagrams):</strong> In quantum field theory, when we draw Feynman diagrams to calculate the probability of interactions, the line representing a positron moving <em>forward in time</em> (with positive energy) can be <em>mathematically treated as equivalent to</em> an electron moving <em>backward in time</em> (which, in the old interpretation, would have had negative energy, but this is now just part of the formalism that correctly describes the positive energy forward-moving positron).</p> <p>So, the statement "particles in anti-hydrogen can be considered with -t" refers to this mathematical formalism for describing the <em>antiparticle components</em> (the antiproton and positron) within calculations. It does <strong>not</strong> mean the anti-hydrogen atom <em>itself</em> is moving backward in time or experiences time backward.</p> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>4. Clarifying Equivalencies (CPT Symmetry):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The most fundamental symmetry here is <strong>CPT symmetry</strong>. It states that the laws of physics are invariant (or look the same) if you simultaneously perform:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>C (Charge Conjugation):</strong> Replace all particles with their antiparticles (and thus flip their charges and other additive quantum numbers like lepton number or baryon number). <ul> <li>Electron (charge -e) ↔ Positron (charge +e)</li> <li>Proton (charge +e) ↔ Antiproton (charge -e)</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>P (Parity Inversion):</strong> Invert all spatial coordinates (x, y, z → -x, -y, -z). It's like looking at a mirror image of the process.</li> <li><strong>T (Time Reversal):</strong> Reverse the direction of time's flow (t → -t). This also means reversing velocities, momenta, and angular momenta. For an emission process, time reversal would look like an absorption process.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Applying this to Particles of Hydrogen and Anti-Hydrogen:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><table><thead><tr><th style="text-align: left;">Particle</th><th style="text-align: left;">Charge</th><th style="text-align: left;">Relative Mass/Energy</th><th style="text-align: left;">Baryon/Lepton #</th><th style="text-align: left;">"Time" in F-S Formalism for its line</th><th style="text-align: left;">Actual Time Evolution</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: left;"><strong>Hydrogen:</strong></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: left;">Proton</td><td style="text-align: left;">+e</td><td style="text-align: left;">Positive</td><td style="text-align: left;">B = +1</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward (particle)</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward</td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: left;">Electron</td><td style="text-align: left;">-e</td><td style="text-align: left;">Positive</td><td style="text-align: left;">L = +1</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward (particle)</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward</td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: left;"><strong>Anti-Hydrogen:</strong></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: left;">Antiproton</td><td style="text-align: left;">-e</td><td style="text-align: left;">Positive</td><td style="text-align: left;">B = -1</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward (antiparticle)</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward</td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"><em>OR</em> Backward (equiv. particle with -t)</td><td style="text-align: left;"></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: left;">Positron</td><td style="text-align: left;">+e</td><td style="text-align: left;">Positive</td><td style="text-align: left;">L = -1</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward (antiparticle)</td><td style="text-align: left;">Forward</td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"></td><td style="text-align: left;"><em>OR</em> Backward (equiv. particle with -t)</td><td style="text-align: left;"></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Key Distinction:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Physical Reality:</strong> An anti-hydrogen atom, made of an antiproton and a positron, moves forward in time (Δt > 0). It has positive mass-energy. Its positron has positive energy. When the positron transitions from a higher positive energy level to a lower positive energy level, it <em>emits</em> a photon. This is a real event happening in forward time.</li> <li><strong>Mathematical Formalism (Feynman-Stueckelberg within CPT):</strong> <ul> <li>The line representing the <em>positron</em> (an antiparticle) moving forward in time in a Feynman diagram is mathematically equivalent to an <em>electron</em> (its corresponding particle) moving backward in time.</li> <li>This does <strong>not</strong> mean the positron <em>is</em> an electron moving backward in time. It means the math works out that way.</li> <li>This equivalence is part of why CPT symmetry holds. If you take an electron emitting a photon, and apply C (get positron), P (mirror it), and T (reverse time, so emission becomes absorption), you should get a valid physical process. The Feynman-Stueckelberg interpretation focuses on how the "T" part combined with "C" relates a particle line to an antiparticle line in the diagrams.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, when an anti-hydrogen atom emits a photon:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li>The <em>entire atom and its constituents</em> are evolving with a <strong>positive change in our laboratory time</strong>.</li> <li>The positron within it has <strong>positive energy</strong> and is moving <strong>forward in time</strong>.</li> <li>The mathematical description of that forward-moving positron <em>can be framed as</em> an electron moving backward in time, but this is a calculational tool, not the physical experience of the positron.</li> </ol></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>ok, and i think you clarified this before -- it sounds like it would work fine to consider everything evolving in negative time, and this would simply mean that all the times photons are emitted from states reducing in energy would then appear to be times that photos are absorbed into states increasing in energy.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>it would be as if the sun were constantly and steadily draining energy from the surface of the earth to send photons toward it.</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Yes, you've got the core idea perfectly!</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>If we were to truly consider a system where <em>everything</em> evolves with time running in reverse relative to our own (let's call our time <code node="[object Object]">t</code> and this hypothetical reversed time <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>, where <code node="[object Object]">dτ/dt = -1</code>), then:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>Microscopic Reversibility:</strong> The fundamental laws of physics governing interactions like electromagnetism (which describes photon emission and absorption) are, to a very high degree, time-reversible.</p> <ul> <li>A process of <strong>emission</strong> in forward time: Atom (High E_initial) → Atom (Low E_final) + Photon.</li> <li>If you run this movie backward (i.e., observe it in <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> time from our <code node="[object Object]">t</code> perspective, or equivalently, an observer in the <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> system experiences their <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> as forward): Photon + Atom (Low E_final) → Atom (High E_initial). This is precisely <strong>absorption</strong>.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Consequences for Macroscopic Phenomena:</strong></p> <ul> <li>You are spot on. Processes that involve the release of energy via photon emission in our forward time would, in this "negative time" view (as observed by us), appear as processes that absorb energy via photon absorption.</li> <li>Your example is excellent: <ul> <li><strong>Our Sun (forward time <code node="[object Object]">t</code>):</strong> Burns fuel, emits photons, energy radiates outward. Earth absorbs some of this energy.</li> <li><strong>Hypothetical Sun (evolving in negative time <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>, observed by us in <code node="[object Object]">t</code>):</strong> It would appear as if Earth is spontaneously radiating photons (perhaps highly organized ones, which is an entropy issue we'll set aside for the theoretical point) which then converge precisely onto this "negative time" Sun. The Sun would appear to be "un-burning" or absorbing this energy, effectively "draining energy from the surface of the Earth to send photons toward it."</li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Important Distinction:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>For an observer <em>within</em> that "negative time" system:</strong> They would experience their time <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> as flowing "forward" from their past to their future. Their sun would appear to radiate, causes would precede effects in <em>their</em> temporal direction. They wouldn't see anything odd.</li> <li><strong>For <em>us</em>, observing <em>their</em> system from our <code node="[object Object]">t</code> frame:</strong> Their "forward in <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>" is our "backward in <code node="[object Object]">t</code>". So, their emissions look like absorptions to us, and their absorptions look like emissions.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So, yes:</strong> If you flip the sign of time in the equations of motion: <code node="[object Object]">Atom_excited → Atom_ground + Photon</code> (emission, ΔE is negative for the atom) becomes, under <code node="[object Object]">t → -t</code>: <code node="[object Object]">Atom_ground + Photon → Atom_excited</code> (absorption, ΔE is positive for the atom, when viewed as the atom's energy <em>increasing</em> in the new time direction).</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The mathematical description works out exactly as you've intuited. The reason we don't observe our sun behaving like an energy sink for Earth is tied to the overall thermodynamic arrow of time in our universe (entropy tends to increase), which itself is thought to be rooted in the very low entropy initial conditions of the Big Bang. But the underlying dynamical laws themselves often possess this time-reversal symmetry.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So to really consider this we may have to find a way to set that entropy arrow aside to some degree. It sounds like our flow of time is highly related to this concept of entropy and predictability. It's hard to decipher the past because of the high energy of the future -- but maybe it is easy to form the future from the past because most things are matter and the state of the past is less complex than that of the future.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>A challenge when considering these things is, what happens to light? What picture would an anticamera take of our world, if it were situated in space? It sounds like it wouldn't take a picture -- instead, its energy would be sucked out by our reflecting bodies. Or am I missing something here?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're making some really insightful connections here!</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Entropy, Time, and Predictability</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>"It sounds like our flow of time is highly related to this concept of entropy and predictability." <ul> <li>Absolutely. This is a dominant view in physics. The <strong>thermodynamic arrow of time</strong> is defined by the tendency of isolated systems to move towards states of higher entropy (more disorder, more possible microstates corresponding to the same macrostate).</li> </ul> </li> <li>"It's hard to decipher the past because of the high energy of the future -- but maybe it is easy to form the future from the past because most things are matter and the state of the past is less complex than that of the future." <ul> <li>This is a great way to put it. To predict the future, we start from a relatively (though not perfectly) known, lower-entropy past or present state, and the laws of physics allow many possible higher-entropy future states, but the overall trend is clear.</li> <li>To "retrodict" or perfectly reconstruct a specific past microstate from a current, higher-entropy macrostate is incredibly difficult because so many different past microstates could have evolved into the current macrostate. Think of an exploded firework – easy to predict the explosion from the intact firework, very hard to reconstruct the exact pre-explosion state from the scattered, cooling embers.</li> <li>The universe itself is thought to have started in a very low-entropy state (the Big Bang), and this "initial condition" is a key reason why we observe a consistent arrow of time with increasing entropy.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The "Anticamera" Thought Experiment</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is where we need to be very careful about our premises. Let's consider two distinct scenarios for your "anticamera":</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Scenario 1: The Anticamera is just made of antimatter but operates in <em>our</em> forward flow of time.</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>It's built with anti-electrons (positrons), anti-protons, etc.</li> <li>It has a lens (perhaps made of anti-glass).</li> <li>It has a sensor (like an anti-CCD or anti-CMOS chip) designed to absorb photons and convert their energy into an anti-electrical signal.</li> <li><strong>What happens?</strong> <ul> <li>Photons from our sun reflect off objects in our world (like Earth).</li> <li>These photons travel through space.</li> <li>They enter the anticamera's lens and are focused onto its anti-sensor.</li> <li>The anti-sensor <em>absorbs</em> these photons, just like a normal camera sensor absorbs photons. The energy levels in anti-atoms are the same as in normal atoms, so they absorb the same frequencies of light.</li> <li><strong>Result:</strong> The anticamera would take a perfectly normal picture of our world. The light from our world would form an image. (The main practical problem is that if the anticamera touched any normal matter, it would annihilate!)</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Scenario 2: The Anticamera is an RTO (Reversed-Time Object). It is made of antimatter, AND its internal subjective experience of time's arrow is reversed relative to ours.</strong> This is the more mind-bending scenario you're leaning towards.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Our World:</strong> The Sun emits photons. Earth reflects them. These photons travel outwards (cause precedes effect in our time).</li> <li><strong>The RTO Anticamera (from its perspective):</strong> It wants to record an image. In <em>its</em> forward time (let's call it <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>), its sensor is designed to <em>absorb</em> incoming photons. This absorption is a normal physical process <em>for it</em>.</li> <li><strong>Connecting the Perspectives:</strong> <ul> <li>Photons leave Earth at our time <code node="[object Object]">t_reflect</code>. They travel.</li> <li>The RTO anticamera's sensor performs an absorption event at its time <code node="[object Object]">τ_absorb</code>.</li> <li>Because <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> runs opposite to our <code node="[object Object]">t</code>, if <code node="[object Object]">τ_absorb</code> is "later" in the RTO's time, the corresponding event in our time, <code node="[object Object]">t_absorb</code>, is "earlier" relative to how we'd map other events.</li> <li><strong>However, the fundamental interaction is still: photons from our world <em>are absorbed</em> by the RTO camera's sensor.</strong> <ul> <li>For the RTO camera to "take a picture" (i.e., record information about our world based on light from it), it <em>must</em> absorb the photons that our world has emitted/reflected.</li> <li>So, it <em>would</em> take a picture. The picture would be of our world, illuminated by our sun. The light from our world would provide the energy for its sensor to react.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Now, about your specific idea: "instead, its energy would be sucked out by our reflecting bodies."</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is where the wires might be getting crossed.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>For a camera (normal or RTO) to see something, it needs to <em>absorb</em> light from that thing.</li> <li>If our reflecting bodies were "sucking energy out" of the RTO anticamera, it would mean they are causing the RTO anticamera to <em>emit</em> photons (in the RTO's own time frame).</li> <li>If the RTO anticamera <em>emits</em> a photon in its own forward time <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>, then from <em>our</em> perspective (where <code node="[object Object]">t</code> runs opposite to <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>), this emission event would look like the RTO anticamera <em>absorbing</em> a photon that was converging on it from the environment.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p>If the RTO anticamera is <strong>taking a picture</strong> of Earth:</p> <ul> <li>Earth reflects photons from our Sun (emission/reflection in our <code node="[object Object]">t</code>).</li> <li>RTO anticamera's sensor absorbs these photons (absorption in its <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>).</li> <li><strong>From our <code node="[object Object]">t</code> perspective:</strong> We see photons leave Earth and then be absorbed by the RTO anticamera. This is normal. The RTO camera gains energy from our photons.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p>If the RTO anticamera's body is, say, warm and <strong>radiating heat</strong> (emitting photons in its <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>):</p> <ul> <li><strong>From our <code node="[object Object]">t</code> perspective:</strong> We would see ambient photons from space (e.g., cosmic microwave background, or even photons from Earth) converging onto the RTO anticamera and being absorbed by it. It would <em>appear</em> to us as if the RTO anticamera is "sucking in" ambient light that perfectly matches what it would be "emitting" if its time ran forward. <em>This</em> is where the "energy being sucked out" idea connects, but it applies to processes that are <em>emissive</em> for the RTO.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Conclusion on the RTO Anticamera:</strong> An RTO anticamera, if it's designed to function as a camera (i.e., to detect incoming light), would indeed take a picture of our world. It would do so by absorbing the photons that our world emits or reflects.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The situation where "its energy would be sucked out" (from our perspective) corresponds to processes where the RTO camera is <em>emitting</em> energy in its own time frame (like radiating heat, or if it had an "anti-flash" that it fired). We would see these emissions as perfectly timed absorptions of ambient light by the RTO camera.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You are not missing something fundamental, but it's about carefully applying the "reversed process" idea. A camera's primary function is absorption. The reverse of that absorption (from its perspective) would be emission.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Well let's slow down here. I'm of course imagining that it's possible for the arrow of time to flow backward. I'm imagining there could in theory be a situation where there is high entropy in the universe in the future, and the same exact physical laws apply with antimatter, to produce low entropy in the past. I suppose normal matter might do this too. Is this a physically correct scenario?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is a fantastic question that gets right to the heart of why the arrow of time is such a deep puzzle in physics.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's break down your scenario:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Premise 1: "It's possible for the arrow of time to flow backward."</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>This is a big "if." Our entire experience and all macroscopic observations point to a single, consistent forward arrow of time. However, the <em>microscopic</em> laws of physics (like electromagnetism, and to a large extent, the weak and strong nuclear forces when combined with C and P transformations as in CPT) are largely time-symmetric. This means if you have a movie of particles interacting and play it backward, the interactions still obey the laws of physics.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Premise 2: "There could in theory be a situation where there is high entropy in the universe in the future..."</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>This is our standard expectation. The universe is evolving towards higher entropy states (e.g., heat death, where energy is maximally dispersed and unusable).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Premise 3: "...and the same exact physical laws apply with antimatter, to produce low entropy in the past."</strong> This is the core of your question.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>CPT Symmetry:</strong> The laws of physics are believed to be CPT symmetric. This means if you take a physical process, flip the charges of all particles (C), reflect it in a mirror (P), and run it backward in time (T), the resulting process is also a valid physical process. <ul> <li>If our universe evolves from low entropy (Big Bang) to high entropy (future heat death) with matter, then a CPT-mirrored universe (made of antimatter, spatially reflected, and evolving backward in our time) would evolve from what <em>we'd call</em> its "future" high entropy state to its "past" low entropy state.</li> <li>For an observer <em>within</em> that CPT-mirrored universe, they would experience their time flowing "forward" (from their low-entropy "Big Bang equivalent" to their high-entropy "heat death equivalent"), and they'd be made of antimatter.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Is this a physically correct scenario?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Here's where the interpretation and the "what ifs" come in:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>From the Perspective of Microscopic Laws Alone (Ignoring Boundary Conditions):</strong></p> <ul> <li>Yes. If the laws are truly time-symmetric (or CPT symmetric), then a universe evolving from high to low entropy (when viewed with a reversed time coordinate) is just as valid a solution to the dynamical equations as a universe evolving from low to high entropy. The equations themselves don't inherently prefer one direction of entropy change.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>The Crucial Role of Boundary Conditions (Especially the Initial State of the Universe):</strong></p> <ul> <li>The reason <em>our</em> universe exhibits a consistent arrow of time with increasing entropy is overwhelmingly believed to be due to its <em>initial condition</em>: the universe started in an extraordinarily low-entropy state (the Big Bang).</li> <li>Given this specific low-entropy past, the statistical overwhelming likelihood is for it to evolve towards higher entropy states. It's like starting with all the air molecules in one corner of a room (low entropy); they will naturally spread out (high entropy). It's statistically astronomically improbable for them to spontaneously return to the corner.</li> <li>So, if you just "started" a universe in a high-entropy state and ran the laws (even time-reversed laws), it would most likely <em>stay</em> in a high-entropy state or fluctuate around it. For it to spontaneously evolve into a highly ordered, low-entropy state (like our Big Bang, but in reverse) would be as statistically improbable as the air molecules re-cornering themselves.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>What About an "Antimatter Universe" with a Reversed Arrow of Time?</strong></p> <ul> <li>This is a conceivable theoretical construct, often discussed in relation to CPT symmetry. If there were such a region or universe, and its "initial condition" (from its perspective) was also very low entropy (like our Big Bang), then it would evolve forward <em>in its own time</em>, increasing <em>its own entropy</em>, just like ours does.</li> <li>If we observed this antimatter universe from our perspective, its time would appear to be running backward. Its entropy, <em>as we would map it to our time coordinate</em>, would appear to be decreasing as we look from our past towards our future (which is their future towards their past).</li> <li><strong>"Normal matter might do this too":</strong> Yes, if you ignore the C (charge conjugation) part and just consider a hypothetical universe governed by T-symmetric laws (or PT-symmetric, etc.) that started in a high-entropy state and somehow evolved towards a low-entropy state (our past). Again, this would require an incredibly special "final condition" (our Big Bang) to act as an attractor when running time backward.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So, is it "physically correct"?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>As a solution to the fundamental dynamical laws:</strong> Yes, a trajectory where entropy decreases is possible if the laws are time-reversible.</li> <li><strong>As a description of a likely or observable macroscopic universe:</strong> No, not without invoking extremely special boundary conditions that are the time-reverse of our own low-entropy Big Bang. The statistical argument for entropy increase is overwhelmingly strong <em>given a low-entropy starting point</em>. For entropy to decrease macroscopically, you'd need a "low-entropy ending point" (which would be a "beginning" if time were reversed for that system).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Think of it like this:</strong> The laws of physics are like the rules of a game that can be played forward or backward. Our universe started with a very specific "opening setup" (low entropy Big Bang). From that setup, playing forward naturally leads to more chaotic, higher-entropy game states. Could you have a game that starts from a chaotic, high-entropy state and, by playing "backward" according to the rules, ends up in that very specific "opening setup"?</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>Yes, if that specific "opening setup" is defined as the "end goal" of the backward play.</li> <li>But if you just randomly started from a chaotic state and played backward, you'd be astronomically unlikely to hit that specific, highly ordered opening setup.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Conclusion:</strong> Your scenario is "physically correct" in the sense that it doesn't violate the fundamental time-reversal symmetry (or CPT symmetry) of the microscopic laws. However, to realize it macroscopically (an entire universe or large region with decreasing entropy as we observe it) would require boundary conditions (a "future" low-entropy state for that system, which is its "past") that are as special and "unlikely" as our own Big Bang.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>It's a fascinating theoretical possibility that highlights the deep connection between the laws of physics, the arrow of time, and the specific state of our universe.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active flex flex-col items-start gap-2 rounded-full max-w-max" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Very sorry. I meant low entropy in the future and high entropy in the past (of course).</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Ah, thank you for the correction! That flips the scenario and makes it even more interesting in the context of our usual understanding.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, the revised scenario is:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>"I'm imagining there could in theory be a situation where there is high entropy in the universe in the past, and the same exact physical laws apply with antimatter (or normal matter), to produce low entropy in the future."</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's analyze this:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>High Entropy in the Past:</strong> This means the universe (or a significant region of it) started in a very disordered, chaotic, "generic" state. This is, in some ways, what one might intuitively expect if there were no special "beginning" – just a system that has had plenty of time to reach thermal equilibrium or maximum disorder.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Same Exact Physical Laws Apply:</strong> We assume the fundamental laws (electromagnetism, gravity, nuclear forces) are as we know them, and they are largely time-symmetric (or CPT-symmetric).</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>To Produce Low Entropy in the Future:</strong> This means that from this chaotic, high-entropy past, the system would spontaneously evolve into a more ordered, lower-entropy state as time moves forward.</p> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Is this revised scenario physically correct?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This scenario runs directly counter to the <strong>Second Law of Thermodynamics</strong> as we observe it applying to macroscopic systems in our universe. The Second Law states that the total entropy of an isolated system can only increase or stay the same over time; it never spontaneously decreases.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>Statistical Improbability:</strong> For a system starting in a high-entropy state to spontaneously evolve into a significantly lower-entropy state is statistically astronomically improbable. Think of an exploded firework spontaneously reassembling itself into an intact firework. Or a cup of lukewarm coffee spontaneously separating into hot coffee and ice cubes. While not strictly forbidden by the <em>microscopic</em> laws (if you could reverse all particle motions perfectly), the number of microstates corresponding to the high-entropy configuration vastly outnumbers those corresponding to the low-entropy configuration. The system is overwhelmingly more likely to stay in, or move towards, states of higher entropy.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>The "Initial Condition" Problem in Reverse:</strong> Our universe solves the "why does entropy increase?" question by postulating a very special, low-entropy <em>initial</em> condition (the Big Bang). Your scenario would require a very special, low-entropy <em>final</em> condition that the universe is somehow "aiming for" out of a chaotic past. This is sometimes called a "future boundary condition."</p> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Could this happen?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>Fluctuations:</strong> In any system, even one at equilibrium (maximum entropy), there will be tiny, random fluctuations where entropy might momentarily decrease in a very small region or for a very short time. However, large-scale, sustained decreases in entropy for a macroscopic system evolving from a high-entropy past are not expected. The idea of a "Boltzmann Brain" – a self-aware consciousness spontaneously fluctuating into existence from a chaotic thermal bath – is an extreme example of this, and it's considered highly improbable even over vast timescales.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>External Intervention (Non-Isolated System):</strong> If the system is not isolated, then an external agent or process could decrease its entropy. For example, a refrigerator decreases the entropy of its contents by expelling heat (and increasing entropy) into the surroundings. But your scenario implies this is happening spontaneously for the universe (or a large part of it).</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>Exotic Physics or Cosmological Models:</strong></p> <ul> <li>Some highly speculative cosmological models might play with ideas of cyclic universes or scenarios where future boundary conditions play a role. For instance, if the universe were to end in a "Big Crunch" that was somehow a time-reversed mirror of the Big Bang (a highly ordered, low-entropy state), then perhaps the evolution towards it from a "mid-point" high-entropy state would look like decreasing entropy. However, current observations suggest our universe is accelerating its expansion, not heading for a Big Crunch.</li> <li>Philosophically, some argue that if the universe is truly time-symmetric in its laws, then perhaps the "arrow of time" is just a local phenomenon or an artifact of our perspective, and there could be regions or epochs where entropy behaves differently.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Conclusion on the Revised Scenario:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>While not strictly forbidden by the time-symmetric <em>microscopic</em> laws of physics if you could arrange an incredibly specific "destiny" or "final state," a universe spontaneously evolving from a high-entropy past to a low-entropy future is <strong>extraordinarily unlikely and contrary to all macroscopic experience and the standard understanding of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>It would require:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li>Either a "guiding principle" or a "final low-entropy boundary condition" that forces the universe towards order, which is not part of standard physics.</li> <li>Or, it would be such an incredibly rare statistical fluctuation that it's virtually impossible on the scale of the observable universe.</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Our current understanding relies heavily on the "Past Hypothesis": the universe <em>started</em> in a low-entropy state, and the arrow of time and the increase of entropy we observe are consequences of evolving away from that special past. Your scenario asks what if it <em>didn't</em> start that way but <em>ends</em> that way. It's a fascinating "what if" that challenges our assumptions, but it doesn't align with our current cosmological picture or thermodynamic principles as applied to forward-evolving systems from generic states.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Okay I guess we might as well slow down here and narrow in on it. Can you help me understand better?</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Say for example our universe reached a point of maximum entropy. Say then every particle was converted from matter to antimatter -- couldn't this be done in such a way that the entire history of the universe reversed?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is a brilliant question that forces us to confront the CPT symmetry and the nature of time and entropy head-on.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's break down your proposed scenario:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Scenario:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li><strong>Universe reaches maximum entropy:</strong> A "heat death" state. Everything is in thermal equilibrium, maximally disordered, no available free energy, no structures.</li> <li><strong>At this point, every particle is instantaneously converted from matter to antimatter:</strong> Protons to antiprotons, electrons to positrons, neutrons to antineutrons (neutrons are their own antiparticles in some sense, but their quark content flips). We also need to consider what "converted" means – are their momenta and positions preserved, just their "particle type" flipped? Let's assume so for now.</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Question: "Couldn't this be done in such a way that the entire history of the universe reversed?"</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Here's the thinking process, drawing on CPT symmetry:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>CPT Symmetry:</strong> States that if you take a valid physical process, apply Charge conjugation (C: particle ↔ antiparticle), Parity inversion (P: mirror reflection x,y,z ↔ -x,-y,-z), and Time reversal (T: t ↔ -t), the resulting process is also a valid physical process.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's consider the history of our universe as Process A:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Process A (Our Universe):</strong> <ul> <li>Starts in a Low Entropy state (Big Bang).</li> <li>Particles are predominantly Matter.</li> <li>Evolves Forward in Time (<code node="[object Object]">t</code>).</li> <li>Ends (hypothetically) in a High Entropy state (Heat Death).</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Now, let's imagine a CPT-transformed version, Process B:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Process B (CPT-Transformed Universe):</strong> <ul> <li>Starts in what corresponds to our Heat Death state, but with antiparticles and mirrored spatial configurations (P). Let's call this the "High Entropy (CPT)" state.</li> <li>Particles are predominantly Antimatter (due to C).</li> <li>Evolves Backward in Time (due to T, relative to our <code node="[object Object]">t</code>).</li> <li>Ends in what corresponds to our Big Bang state, but with antiparticles and mirrored configurations. Let's call this the "Low Entropy (CPT)" state.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>For an observer <em>within</em> Process B, their time would flow "forward" from their "Low Entropy (CPT)" beginning to their "High Entropy (CPT)" end. They would be made of antimatter.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Your Scenario's Critical Step: The Conversion</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're suggesting that at the point of our universe's Heat Death (High Entropy), if we just do the C-transformation (matter → antimatter), could this kickstart the T-reversal part of the CPT operation?</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The Problem:</strong> Simply converting matter to antimatter (the 'C' operation) at the point of maximum entropy does not automatically invoke the 'T' (time reversal) operation in terms of the universe's macroscopic evolution or an observer's experience of time.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>Entropy and Statistical Mechanics:</strong></p> <ul> <li>A system at maximum entropy has, by definition, explored virtually all its accessible microstates and is in the most probable macroscopic configuration.</li> <li>If you simply flip all particles to their antiparticles but keep their positions, momenta, and the overall high-entropy configuration, you still have a high-entropy state. An antiproton gas in thermal equilibrium is just as high-entropy as a proton gas in thermal equilibrium.</li> <li>For the universe's history to reverse, it would mean this high-entropy antimatter gas would need to spontaneously start evolving towards a low-entropy state (the antimatter equivalent of our Big Bang). This is, as we discussed, statistically astronomically improbable. The system, now made of antimatter but still in a high-entropy state, would overwhelmingly be expected to <em>remain</em> in a high-entropy state, or fluctuate around it.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>What CPT Symmetry Implies vs. What it Allows You to "Do":</strong></p> <ul> <li>CPT symmetry tells us that if our matter universe evolving forward in time from low to high entropy is possible, then an antimatter universe evolving forward <em>in its own time</em> from a low-entropy beginning (which would look like our future) to a high-entropy end (which would look like our past) is <em>also</em> theoretically possible.</li> <li>It doesn't provide a mechanism to <em>take our universe at Heat Death</em> and actively <em>make it</em> run backward by just flipping particle types. The "T" operation in CPT is a mathematical reversal of the time coordinate in the equations, not an operation we can perform on a physical system to make it retrace its steps against the overwhelming statistical tide of entropy.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Analogy (Imperfect):</strong> Imagine a recording of an egg breaking.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>Playing it forward (Process A): Intact egg (low entropy) → Broken egg (high entropy).</li> <li>CPT-equivalent (Process B): If you filmed an "anti-egg" (C), reflected in a mirror (P), "un-breaking" itself (T-reversed), that would also be a valid physical process if anti-eggs existed and obeyed CPT-symmetric laws. An observer in that "anti-egg un-breaking" world would see it as normal (an anti-egg breaking forward in their time).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Your scenario is like taking the broken normal egg (high entropy), somehow magically turning all its molecules into "anti-molecules" (C-operation), and then expecting it to spontaneously reassemble itself into an intact anti-egg. It won't. It's still a collection of broken anti-molecules in a high-entropy state. To get it to "un-break," you'd need to meticulously reverse the momenta of all its anti-particles, which is effectively performing the T-operation by an external agent with incredible precision – you'd be <em>imposing</em> the time-reversed evolution.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Could it be done "in such a way"?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>If "in such a way" includes not just flipping C, but also somehow perfectly reversing the momenta and all relevant quantum states of <em>every single particle</em> in the universe (the 'T' operation at the microscopic level) and also performing the 'P' operation (mirroring configurations if CPT is the exact symmetry rather than just CT or T), then you are essentially <em>forcing</em> the system to retrace its steps. This is no longer a spontaneous evolution but a highly orchestrated "rewinding."</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>The "conversion from matter to antimatter" alone (the C part) is not enough to reverse the thermodynamic arrow of time. The universe, now made of antimatter, would still be at maximum entropy and would be expected to stay there.</li> <li>For the <em>entire history</em> to reverse, you'd need to impose the conditions that correspond to the time-reversed version of every step, which is a colossal requirement far beyond just flipping particle types.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, while CPT symmetry suggests a deep connection between matter/antimatter and the direction of time in terms of fundamental laws, it doesn't imply that a simple C-transformation on a high-entropy state can spontaneously make time run backward thermodynamically.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Ok, so this would work only if you, as well as making every particle an antiparticle, also precisely inverted their momentum and mirrored their locations?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Yes, you've pinpointed the crucial additions. If you wanted to take a snapshot of our universe at some point (let's say, its state of maximum entropy, S_max) and try to make it evolve "backward" in time to retrace its history towards the Big Bang, you would need to do the following to every single particle (or quantum field excitation):</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>C - Charge Conjugation:</strong> Convert every particle to its corresponding antiparticle.</p> <ul> <li>Electron → Positron</li> <li>Proton → Antiproton</li> <li>Neutron → Antineutron (their quark content would be flipped)</li> <li>Photon → Photon (it's its own antiparticle)</li> <li>And so on for all other particles.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>P - Parity Inversion ("Mirrored their locations"):</strong> Invert all spatial coordinates relative to some origin. If a particle was at (x, y, z), it would now be at (-x, -y, -z). This is a global mirror reflection of the entire system's configuration.</p> <ul> <li>This also affects vector quantities like position. Polar vectors (like position, velocity, momentum) flip sign. Axial vectors (like angular momentum, magnetic field) do not flip sign under P alone (but angular momentum <em>does</em> flip under T).</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>T - Time Reversal ("Precisely inverted their momentum"):</strong> This is the most complex part operationally.</p> <ul> <li><strong>Reverse Momenta:</strong> If a particle had momentum <code node="[object Object]">p</code>, its new momentum would be <code node="[object Object]">-p</code>. This means reversing the direction of motion for everything.</li> <li><strong>Reverse Angular Momenta:</strong> Anything spinning would need to spin in the opposite direction.</li> <li><strong>Reverse Magnetic Fields:</strong> Magnetic fields would need to be reversed (as they are produced by moving charges/spins).</li> <li>Essentially, all quantities that change sign under time reversal in the dynamical equations must be flipped.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>If you could perfectly execute C, P, and T transformations on the state of the universe at S_max:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>You would have created a new state, S'_initial.</li> <li>This S'_initial, if the laws of physics are truly CPT invariant, would then spontaneously evolve "forward" in its own time, but this evolution would precisely mirror the time-reversed history of our universe.</li> <li>So, S'_initial (which is CPT-transformed S_max) would evolve into a state that is the CPT transform of our universe a moment before S_max, then a moment before that, all the way back to a state that is the CPT transform of our Big Bang.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Why this is practically "impossible" but theoretically "works":</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Statistical Mechanics:</strong> The reason our universe at S_max doesn't spontaneously do this (even if it were made of antimatter) is because S_max represents an incredibly tiny fraction of phase space that could lead "backward" to a low-entropy state. The overwhelming majority of nearby microstates, even if CPT transformed, would still lead to high-entropy states.</li> <li><strong>Precision:</strong> The precision required to perfectly reverse all momenta and set up the exact CPT-transformed state is beyond astronomical. Any slight error, and the system would quickly diverge from the time-reversed path and evolve towards high entropy again. It's like trying to perfectly balance an infinite number of needles on their points simultaneously.</li> <li><strong>What an Observer Would See:</strong> <ul> <li>If you were an observer <em>within</em> this CPT-transformed, backward-evolving system (and you were also CPT transformed), you would perceive time as flowing forward, from your CPT-transformed Big Bang (low entropy) to your CPT-transformed Heat Death (high entropy). You'd be made of antimatter, and your spatial relations might be mirrored, but your subjective experience of time and entropy increase would be normal <em>for you</em>.</li> <li>If <em>we</em> could somehow observe this CPT-transformed universe from the "outside," it would indeed look like our universe running in reverse, made of antimatter, and spatially mirrored.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So, your "yes" is correct, with the understanding that:</strong> This isn't something the universe would <em>do</em> spontaneously after just a C-flip at maximum entropy. It's a specific, highly orchestrated transformation (C, P, and T) that you would have to <em>impose</em> on the system to set up the initial conditions for such a time-reversed evolution.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The CPT theorem is a statement about the symmetry of the <em>laws</em> of physics, meaning that if one trajectory is possible, then the CPT-mirrored trajectory is also a solution allowed by those laws. It doesn't mean a system will spontaneously jump from its current trajectory to its CPT-mirrored, time-reversed one.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>It sounds like statistical mechanics is proposing that information is not preserved and that the passage of time implies a loss of information.</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color 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duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>That's a very common and understandable takeaway, but the relationship between statistical mechanics, information, and the arrow of time is actually more nuanced and debated. It's not quite accurate to say statistical mechanics <em>proposes</em> that information is lost in the fundamental sense.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Here's a breakdown:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>Microscopic Reversibility and Information Preservation:</strong></p> <ul> <li>At the fundamental level of classical mechanics (Newton's laws) or quantum mechanics (Schrödinger equation, unitary evolution), the laws are time-reversible (or CPT-reversible in the case of QFT).</li> <li>This implies that, in principle, <strong>information is conserved.</strong> If you know the exact microstate (positions and momenta of all particles, or the full quantum wavefunction) of a system at one time, the laws allow you to determine its exact microstate at any other time (past or future). No information about the microstate is ever truly lost.</li> <li>This is related to Liouville's theorem in classical statistical mechanics and unitarity in quantum mechanics.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Macroscopic Descriptions and Entropy:</strong></p> <ul> <li>Statistical mechanics introduces entropy to describe macroscopic systems, where we don't know (and can't practically track) the exact microstate of every single particle.</li> <li><strong>Entropy is a measure of our <em>ignorance</em> about the precise microstate of a system, given its macroscopic properties (like temperature, pressure, volume).</strong> A higher entropy macrostate corresponds to a vastly larger number of possible underlying microstates.</li> <li>When a system evolves from a low-entropy state (fewer possible microstates, more ordered) to a high-entropy state (many more possible microstates, more disordered), we say entropy has increased.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>The "Apparent" Loss of Information:</strong></p> <ul> <li>When entropy increases (e.g., an egg breaks, cream mixes with coffee), it becomes practically impossible for us to reverse the process or to deduce the <em>exact</em> initial microstate from the final macrostate.</li> <li>The information about the initial configuration isn't <em>destroyed</em> in a fundamental sense; it's just dispersed into the incredibly complex correlations and motions of all the individual particles. It becomes "hidden" or "inaccessible" to us as macroscopic observers.</li> <li>Our description of the system shifts from a detailed microstate (which we might have had some knowledge of initially, e.g., an intact egg) to a much coarser macroscopic description (a broken egg). In this shift of description, we "lose" practical access to the detailed information.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>The Thermodynamic Arrow of Time:</strong></p> <ul> <li>The reason we see irreversible processes and an arrow of time is not because information is fundamentally lost, but because systems tend to evolve from <em>less probable (low entropy, more ordered)</em> macroscopic configurations towards <em>more probable (high entropy, more disordered)</em> macroscopic configurations, given the vast number of microstates corresponding to the latter.</li> <li>This is overwhelmingly driven by the initial low-entropy state of the universe (the Past Hypothesis).</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So, statistical mechanics doesn't propose information is lost, but rather:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>It explains why, for macroscopic observers dealing with systems of many particles, information about the precise microstate becomes practically inaccessible as the system evolves towards equilibrium (higher entropy).</li> <li>The "passage of time" is associated with this evolution from special (low entropy) to generic (high entropy) states, making it practically impossible to "un-mix" the coffee or "un-break" the egg, even though the underlying microscopic laws would, in principle, allow it if you could perfectly reverse everything.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The Black Hole Information Paradox is a good example of where this becomes a crucial debate:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>Standard general relativity suggested that information falling into a black hole was truly lost when the black hole evaporated via Hawking radiation (which seemed purely thermal and information-free). This would violate the unitarity of quantum mechanics (information preservation).</li> <li>Much of modern theoretical physics research (especially in string theory and quantum gravity) has been dedicated to resolving this paradox, with the prevailing view now being that information <em>is</em> somehow preserved, though how it gets out of an evaporating black hole is still not fully understood (e.g., via subtle correlations in the Hawking radiation, or holographic principles).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>In summary:</strong> It's better to say that the passage of time, as described by statistical mechanics and the Second Law, implies a practical loss of <em>useful</em> or <em>accessible</em> information for macroscopic observers, as systems evolve from ordered states to more disordered states. The fundamental microscopic laws still suggest that the underlying information about the microstate is conserved, just incredibly scrambled and dispersed. The challenge is bridging the gap between these two perspectives.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>I'm thinking if we ignored black holes and the concept of macrostates as unique, we could consider rather than an entropy progression, a transformation of organization between large centralized structures and small decentralized structures as entropy progresses. This seems to reflect more the physical reality, as opposed to what we can reasonably or easily measure as large centralized beings ourselves.</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is a very insightful and interesting reframing of entropy and cosmic evolution! You're pointing towards a more nuanced view than just "order to disorder." Let's explore this concept of transformation between "large centralized structures" and "small decentralized structures."</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Your Proposed Reframing:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Traditional View (Simplified):</strong> Entropy increase = Order → Disorder. Low entropy is often associated with complex, ordered structures. High entropy is often associated with uniform, featureless equilibrium.</li> <li><strong>Your View:</strong> Entropy progression involves a <strong>transformation of organization</strong> from: <ul> <li><strong>Large, centralized structures</strong> (perhaps representing lower entropy in some contexts)</li> <li>to <strong>Small, decentralized structures</strong> (perhaps representing higher entropy, or at least a different <em>kind</em> of organization/disorganization).</li> </ul> </li> <li>You also highlight that our perspective as "large centralized beings" might bias how we perceive and measure this.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Connecting this to Physical Reality and Cosmic Evolution:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>Early Universe (Relatively Low Entropy, Centralized Potential):</strong></p> <ul> <li>The very early universe after the Big Bang was incredibly hot and dense, remarkably uniform on large scales, but with tiny quantum fluctuations. This uniformity is a state of <em>low gravitational entropy</em> because gravity is attractive and uniformity is an unstable state for a self-gravitating system. All matter and energy were, in a sense, "centralized" before structures formed.</li> <li>The potential for complex structure formation was immense.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Structure Formation (Gravitational Clumping - Centralization and Decentralization):</strong></p> <ul> <li>As the universe expanded and cooled, gravity caused matter to clump.</li> <li><strong>Formation of Large Centralized Structures:</strong> Galaxies, stars, planets. These are highly organized, complex systems. In the context of <em>gravitational entropy</em>, the clumping of matter into dense objects actually <em>increases</em> entropy (black holes are the maximum entropy state for a given mass and size). However, within these structures, a lot of "useful" order and complexity emerges (e.g., stars with fusion, planets with geochemistry).</li> <li><strong>Decentralization of Other Components:</strong> As stars form, they radiate energy (photons) out into the vast, cold, decentralized space. The cosmic microwave background (CMB) itself is a highly decentralized bath of photons.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Stellar Evolution and Dispersal (Centralized → Decentralized):</strong></p> <ul> <li>Stars are large, centralized structures. They burn through their fuel.</li> <li>When massive stars die (supernovae), they eject their processed elements (heavier atoms) back into interstellar space. This is a form of decentralization of matter, which then becomes raw material for new stars and planets.</li> <li>The energy released is also decentralized as photons and neutrinos.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Late Universe (Hypothetical Heat Death - Ultimate Decentralization/Homogeneity):</strong></p> <ul> <li>If the universe continues to expand and all stars burn out, protons decay (if they do), and black holes evaporate, the very far future might be a cold, dark, incredibly dilute gas of elementary particles and low-energy photons.</li> <li>This is a state of maximum entropy, where organization is minimal and everything is highly decentralized and homogeneous. There are no large, centralized structures left.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>How Your Perspective Adds Value:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Beyond Simple "Disorder":</strong> It avoids the simplistic notion that entropy is just things "breaking down." Instead, it highlights a dynamic interplay where some forms of centralization (like star formation) can lead to increased complexity and local order, while simultaneously contributing to larger-scale decentralization (energy radiation, element dispersal).</li> <li><strong>Scale and Perspective:</strong> You rightly point out our bias. We are complex, centralized beings who perceive structure and order in a particular way. What looks like "decentralized chaos" at one scale might be a necessary precursor for different kinds of organization or a consequence of organization at another scale.</li> <li><strong>Information Flow:</strong> The transformation from centralized to decentralized can also be thought of in terms of information. A star "concentrates" information in its structure and processes, then "broadcasts" some of that (in the form of light patterns, elemental abundances) to the wider universe.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Challenges and Nuances:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Defining "Organization":</strong> "Large centralized" vs. "small decentralized" needs careful definition in terms of quantifiable physical properties to be robustly linked to entropy. Entropy is a precise thermodynamic quantity.</li> <li><strong>Gravitational Entropy:</strong> This is a key concept when discussing cosmic structures. Unlike thermal entropy, gravitational entropy <em>increases</em> as systems clump together due to gravity's attractive nature. A smooth gas has low gravitational entropy; a universe full of black holes has high gravitational entropy. This might seem counterintuitive if you only think of thermal disorder.</li> <li><strong>Multiple Arrows of Time?:</strong> Some physicists, like Julian Barbour, propose that the "arrow of time" we perceive might be tied to the increase in complexity and structure, not just simple disorder. Your idea resonates with this, suggesting that the "progression" is a specific kind of structural transformation.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>In essence, your perspective is valuable because it pushes for a more sophisticated understanding of entropy beyond "messiness."</strong> It encourages thinking about how organization changes form and scale throughout cosmic evolution. The universe doesn't just go from "one big ordered thing" to "lots of little disordered bits." It's a complex dance of gravitational clumping (centralization, leading to local complexity and higher gravitational entropy) and thermodynamic processes (energy radiation, dispersal, leading to increased thermal entropy and decentralization of energy/some matter).</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is a very fruitful way to think about the universe's evolution, and it aligns well with modern cosmology's understanding of structure formation and the eventual fate of the cosmos.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active flex flex-col items-start gap-2 rounded-full max-w-max" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>does antimatter defy gravity?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is a classic and very important question in physics!</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Based on our current understanding of physics, particularly Einstein's theory of General Relativity and the Equivalence Principle, the overwhelming theoretical expectation is that <strong>antimatter does NOT defy gravity; it should behave exactly the same way as normal matter under the influence of gravity.</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Here's why:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li> <p><strong>The Equivalence Principle:</strong> This is a cornerstone of General Relativity. It states (in one form) that the inertial mass of an object (its resistance to acceleration, <code node="[object Object]">m</code> in <code node="[object Object]">F=ma</code>) is equivalent to its gravitational mass (the property that determines the strength of the gravitational force it experiences and exerts).</p> <ul> <li>Antimatter particles have positive mass (and therefore positive energy, E=mc²). For example, an antiproton has the same mass as a proton. A positron has the same mass as an electron.</li> <li>If the equivalence principle holds true for antimatter as it does for matter, then antimatter must interact with gravity attractively, just like normal matter. It should fall "down" in a gravitational field.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>General Relativity and Energy-Momentum:</strong> General Relativity describes gravity as the curvature of spacetime caused by the presence of mass-energy (and momentum/pressure). The source of gravity is the stress-energy tensor.</p> <ul> <li>Since antimatter has positive mass-energy, it should contribute to the stress-energy tensor in the same way as normal matter, and thus curve spacetime and respond to spacetime curvature (gravity) in the same way.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>CPT Symmetry:</strong> While not directly about gravity, CPT symmetry (Charge, Parity, Time reversal) is a fundamental symmetry of quantum field theories. If antimatter had "anti-gravity" (was repelled by the gravity of normal matter), it could potentially lead to violations of CPT symmetry or require very exotic and currently unsupported modifications to our theories. Some theoretical arguments suggest that "anti-gravity" would lead to violations of energy conservation or other fundamental principles if not handled very carefully with new physics.</p> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Experimental Evidence (or lack thereof for "anti-gravity"):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Directly measuring the gravitational interaction of antimatter is extremely difficult because:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>Antimatter is hard to produce and store.</li> <li>The gravitational force is incredibly weak compared to the electromagnetic forces that dominate interactions with antimatter at short ranges (e.g., keeping it contained in magnetic traps).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>However, experiments are underway:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>ALPHA-g experiment at CERN:</strong> This experiment is specifically designed to measure the effect of gravity on antihydrogen atoms. They trap neutral antihydrogen and then release it to see if it falls up or down. <ul> <li><strong>Preliminary results and the strong expectation:</strong> While definitive, high-precision results are still being refined, the physics community strongly expects antihydrogen to fall down. Early indications from ALPHA and other experiments (AEgIS, GBAR) are consistent with antimatter behaving normally under gravity, though the error bars are still too large for a definitive "discovery" level statement ruling out all exotic possibilities.</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>Indirect evidence:</strong> The behavior of antiparticles in high-energy collisions, and the self-consistency of our physical theories, also indirectly support the idea that antimatter gravitates normally. If it didn't, we might expect to see strange effects in other areas of particle physics or cosmology.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>What if antimatter <em>did</em> defy gravity?</strong> It would be a monumental discovery, overturning fundamental principles of physics. It would mean:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>The Equivalence Principle is violated for antimatter.</li> <li>General Relativity would need significant modification.</li> <li>Our understanding of CPT symmetry and its relation to gravity would need re-evaluation.</li> <li>It could have profound cosmological implications (e.g., for explaining dark energy or other mysteries, though no current "anti-gravity" model does this convincingly without creating other problems).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>In summary:</strong> The strong theoretical consensus, backed by the principles of General Relativity and the positive mass-energy of antiparticles, is that <strong>antimatter experiences gravity attractively, just like normal matter.</strong> Experiments are working to confirm this directly with high precision. So far, there is no credible evidence to suggest that antimatter defies gravity.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Ok. So back to the idea of inverting the CPT and anti properties of everything in the universe to make time reverse. Does this seem more doable with the concept of decentralized order, where high entropy means that information is distributed and stored in high precision quantities rather than collected together into low precision quantities? Is this concept reasonable or does it leave too much out? If time would appear reversed under such conditions, how does that work with normal gravity?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is a very thought-provoking way to connect these ideas! Let's break it down.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>1. Your Concept of "Decentralized Order" and Entropy:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>"High entropy means that information is distributed and stored in high precision quantities rather than collected together into low precision quantities."</li> <li><strong>Reasonableness:</strong> This is a sophisticated and, in many ways, accurate description of what happens to information in high-entropy systems. <ul> <li><strong>High Precision at Micro Level:</strong> The exact microstate (positions, momenta of all particles) of a high-entropy system is indeed precisely defined. If you knew it, you'd have a huge amount of information.</li> <li><strong>Distributed:</strong> This information is spread across the correlations and states of trillions upon trillions of particles, rather than being "collected" into easily describable macroscopic structures.</li> <li><strong>Low Precision of Macrostate Description:</strong> Our macroscopic description of a high-entropy state (e.g., "gas in thermal equilibrium at temperature T") is "low precision" because it averages over an immense number of possible, precisely defined microstates.</li> <li><strong>Comparison:</strong> A low-entropy state (like a crystal or a living organism) has information "collected" into discernible patterns and structures. While its microstate is also precise, there are fewer such microstates that correspond to that particular ordered macrostate.</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>Does it leave too much out?</strong> <ul> <li>It doesn't fundamentally change the <em>statistical</em> argument. Even if information is "distributed with high precision," for a high-entropy system to spontaneously evolve into a specific low-entropy state (the time-reversed version of a past state) means that out of all the possible precise microstates it could transition into, it has to hit an incredibly tiny subset that corresponds to that ordered configuration.</li> <li>The "Past Hypothesis" (our universe started in a very low-entropy state) is still the dominant explanation for why we see an arrow of time with increasing entropy. Your description of high entropy doesn't negate the specialness of that initial condition.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>2. Does this "Decentralized Order" Concept Make CPT Reversal for Time Reversal "More Doable"?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>The "Doing":</strong> Remember, to make the universe's history reverse through CPT, we concluded you'd need to <em>actively perform</em> the C, P, and T operations on <em>every particle and field</em> in the universe at some point (e.g., at hypothetical maximum entropy). This means: <ol> <li>Flipping all particles to antiparticles (C).</li> <li>Mirroring all their spatial configurations (P).</li> <li>Precisely reversing all their momenta and other T-odd quantities (T).</li> </ol> </li> <li><strong>Impact of your concept:</strong> <ul> <li>Your concept accurately describes the state from which you'd <em>start</em> this operation if you chose the "heat death" moment. The information to define the "target" time-reversed state is, in principle, still encoded in the forward evolution.</li> <li>However, it doesn't make the <em>act of performing</em> the perfect C, P, and T transformations any easier. The difficulty lies in the incredible precision and control needed to manipulate every single degree of freedom in the universe to set up this new CPT-transformed initial state.</li> <li>The statistical challenge isn't that information is lost, but that the <em>target configuration</em> for a time-reversed evolution is an infinitesimally small needle in an infinitely vast haystack of possible configurations. Your "decentralized order" describes the haystack; it doesn't make finding or constructing the needle any simpler.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, your concept is a good way to think about the <em>nature</em> of information in high-entropy states, but it doesn't fundamentally alter the monumental challenge of <em>orchestrating</em> a CPT reversal that would lead to a macroscopic time-reversal of the universe's history. It remains an act of supreme, external intervention, not a spontaneous process.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>3. How Does Normal Gravity Work if Time Appears Reversed (Under CPT Transformation)?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let's assume you've perfectly performed the C, P, and T operations on the state of our universe. We are now observing this CPT-transformed system.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Antimatter and Gravity (C-operation):</strong> As discussed, antimatter is expected to gravitate normally (attractively). So, the C-transformed matter (now antimatter) will still attract other antimatter.</li> <li><strong>Parity and Gravity (P-operation):</strong> Mirroring the universe doesn't change the nature of gravity. Gravitational forces would still be attractive, just acting on a mirrored configuration of masses.</li> <li><strong>Time Reversal and Gravity (T-operation):</strong> <ul> <li>General Relativity's equations are largely time-symmetric.</li> <li>If all momenta are reversed, then objects that were flying apart (like galaxies in an expanding universe) will now be moving towards each other.</li> <li>Objects that were falling into a gravitational well will now be moving out of it (if their initial T-reversed momenta are set to achieve this).</li> <li><strong>From <em>our</em> perspective (observing this CPT-transformed universe with our forward arrow of time):</strong> <ul> <li>We would see an antimatter universe.</li> <li>It would appear spatially mirrored.</li> <li>Its dynamical evolution would be the reverse of ours. If our universe expanded and formed structures, this CPT-universe would appear to be contracting (or "un-expanding") and "un-forming" structures (structures dissolving back into a smoother state, eventually leading to the CPT-transformed Big Bang).</li> <li>Gravity itself is still attractive. What has changed is the <em>initial condition</em> (the CPT-transformed state, including reversed momenta). For example, if two antimatter galaxies are moving towards each other in this CPT-transformed scenario (because their matter counterparts were moving apart in ours), their mutual gravity will accelerate their approach. This is normal gravity acting on objects whose momenta have been flipped.</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>For an observer <em>within</em> that CPT-transformed universe:</strong> They would experience their time flowing "forward" from their (CPT-transformed) Big Bang. They would see their (antimatter) galaxies forming and moving apart due to their initial expansion, all under the influence of normal attractive gravity. Their physics would look self-consistent.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>In summary:</strong> If you could enact the full CPT transformation on the state of the universe:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>Gravity would still be an attractive force, acting between the (now) antimatter constituents.</li> <li>The <em>appearance</em> of time being reversed for the universe's history comes from the fact that you've set up an initial state (the CPT-transformed state) that will then evolve according to the (CPT-symmetric) laws of physics to precisely retrace (in reverse) the trajectory of our universe.</li> <li>The galaxies in this CPT-universe wouldn't be "defying" their mutual gravity to fly apart if they were initially close; rather, their initial (T-reversed) momenta would be such that they are already moving apart, and gravity would be trying to slow that expansion, just like in our universe. If they were "un-forming" from a collapsed state, their T-reversed momenta would be outward-bound, and gravity would be trying to pull them back.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Gravity acts normally on the given configuration of mass-energy and momenta. The "time reversal" of the overall history is a consequence of setting up a very specific, CPT-transformed set of <em>initial conditions</em>.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>I'm a little confused. Are you saying that we could reverse momentum and time, and not reverse gravity, and things would still be the same? I'm thinking of how galaxies flying apart would slow a little from their gravitation -- and then galaxies flying together would accelerate, again from their gravitation -- and those do sound like reversals of each other. It's just a little unintuitive. But it does work out? If I were to jump, and be partway up my jump, and then my momentum were reversed ... I would accelerate to the ground in opposition to my takeoff.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Okay, so it sounds like this idea of imagining time reversed for antimatter would indeed work. I think?</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>It sounds like it wouldn't even need to be antimatter here, it could be normal matter with reversed momentum. Where is the antimatter conversion required to preserve things? Or am I wrong?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You've hit on some excellent points, and you're right to feel it's a bit unintuitive! Let's clarify.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>1. Reversing Momentum and Time, but Not Reversing Gravity Itself:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>You are correct. We don't "reverse gravity" as a fundamental force. Gravity, as described by General Relativity, is (largely) time-symmetric in its laws.</li> <li>What we do in the "T" operation is reverse the <strong>state of motion</strong> (momenta, velocities, angular momenta) of all the matter/energy <em>within</em> that gravitational field.</li> <li>The gravitational <em>force</em> or <em>curvature</em> itself still acts in the same way (attractively, based on mass-energy distribution).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Analogy: A Ball Thrown Upwards</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Forward Time:</strong> <ol> <li>You throw a ball up (initial upward momentum).</li> <li>Gravity (always pulling down) slows it down.</li> <li>It reaches peak height (zero momentum momentarily).</li> <li>Gravity (still pulling down) accelerates it downwards.</li> <li>It hits the ground.</li> </ol> </li> <li><strong>Imagine at Peak Height, You Magically Perform a "T-operation" (on the ball only, for simplicity):</strong> <ul> <li>At peak height, its momentum is zero. So reversing it is still zero. This isn't a good point for the analogy.</li> </ul> </li> <li><strong>Imagine Midway Up, You Magically Perform a "T-operation":</strong> <ol> <li>Ball is at height <code node="[object Object]">h</code>, moving upwards with momentum <code node="[object Object]">+p</code>. Gravity is pulling down.</li> <li><strong>T-Operation:</strong> Ball is still at height <code node="[object Object]">h</code>, but now its momentum is <code node="[object Object]">-p</code> (downwards). Gravity is <em>still</em> pulling down.</li> <li><strong>Result:</strong> The ball, already moving downwards due to the T-op, will accelerate even faster towards the ground because gravity is <em>also</em> pulling it down. This <em>doesn't</em> look like the reverse of the upward journey.</li> </ol> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The "T" operation must be applied to a <em>complete description of a trajectory over time</em> if you want to see the reversed trajectory unfold.</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>If you take a movie of the ball going up and then down, and you play the whole movie backward:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li>Ball starts on the ground, then flies <em>up into your hand</em> (this is the time-reversed version of it falling from your hand if you just dropped it, or the time-reversed version of it falling after being thrown up).</li> <li>It then continues <em>upwards</em>, slowing down (this is the time-reversed version of it falling from its peak).</li> <li>It reaches its peak.</li> <li>It then moves <em>downwards</em> towards your hand, accelerating (this is the time-reversed version of you throwing it upwards and it slowing down).</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This illustrates that the "T" operation is about reversing the <em>dynamics</em> so the system retraces its path. Gravity acts consistently throughout.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Your Galaxy Example: "galaxies flying apart would slow a little from their gravitation -- and then galaxies flying together would accelerate, again from their gravitation -- and those do sound like reversals of each other."</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Forward Time:</strong> Two galaxies moving apart. Their mutual gravity tries to slow their separation.</li> <li><strong>Time-Reversed Scenario (if you perfectly T-reversed a state where they were moving apart):</strong> <ul> <li>You would have two galaxies that are now moving <em>towards</em> each other (momenta reversed).</li> <li>Their mutual gravity will <em>accelerate</em> their approach.</li> <li>This <em>is</em> the time-reversed version of the first scenario. In the first, gravity opposes the motion; in the second, gravity aids the (reversed) motion.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>So yes, it does work out, but it's about ensuring the <em>initial conditions</em> for the time-reversed scenario are correctly set up.</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>2. "It sounds like it wouldn't even need to be antimatter here, it could be normal matter with reversed momentum. Where is the antimatter conversion required to preserve things? Or am I wrong?"</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You are <strong>partially right and this is a crucial point.</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>If the laws of physics were perfectly T-symmetric (time-reversal symmetric) AND P-symmetric (parity symmetric) on their own:</strong> Then, yes, you could just take normal matter, perfectly reverse all its momenta (T) and mirror its positions (P), and its evolution would trace the P & T reversed history of our universe. The "C" (charge conjugation to antimatter) wouldn't be strictly necessary for just getting the <em>dynamics</em> to run backward.</p> </li> <li> <p><strong>The Role of CPT Symmetry:</strong></p> <ul> <li>However, we know that some interactions in nature, specifically the <strong>Weak Nuclear Force</strong>, violate C symmetry (they treat particles and antiparticles differently) and P symmetry (they treat left-handed and right-handed systems differently) and even the combination CP symmetry (as seen in some meson decays).</li> <li>The most fundamental symmetry we believe holds true for <em>all</em> known physical laws is <strong>CPT symmetry</strong>.</li> <li>This means that if you want a scenario that is <em>guaranteed</em> by fundamental symmetry to be a valid physical process that perfectly reverses the original, you need to apply all three: C, P, and T.</li> <li>If you <em>only</em> apply T (or PT), and there are CP-violating interactions at play (or T-violating interactions if P is conserved), then the "reversed" evolution might not perfectly retrace the original path. The deviations would be due to the aspects of the laws that aren't just T-symmetric or PT-symmetric.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Conclusion:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>For a large-scale gravitational system where only gravity and electromagnetism are dominant, a PT reversal (mirrored positions, reversed momenta) with normal matter would indeed look very much like a time-reversed version of our universe's gravitational evolution. Gravity acts consistently.</li> <li>The "C" operation (converting to antimatter) is included when we invoke <strong>CPT symmetry</strong> because CPT is believed to be an <em>exact</em> symmetry of all fundamental laws, including the weak force which violates C and P individually.</li> <li>So, if you want the <em>most robust theoretical guarantee</em> that your "reversed universe" is a fully valid physical process according to <em>all</em> known laws, you perform the full CPT.</li> <li>If you're primarily concerned with macroscopic dynamics dominated by gravity and EM, PT reversal with normal matter will give you something that looks like time reversal for those aspects.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>You're not wrong to think that for many macroscopic purposes, just reversing momenta (and mirroring positions for a proper reversal of dynamics) seems like enough to get a "time-reversed feel." The antimatter part comes in when we demand that the reversed scenario be consistent with the <em>deepest and most complete symmetries</em> known in particle physics.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> <div class="flex-1 min-w-0 flex justify-end"><div class="text-lg font-sans font-normal px-3 py-2 bg-interactive-cta-secondary-active rounded-xl flex flex-col items-start gap-2" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>.... ok .... it's hard to think about .</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>So, say just for argument we made a super-precise pod that produced an environment of high-entropy states for an antimatter agent. These high-entropy states are designed for the antimatter agent to have an experience of logic that progresses backward in time.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>How might it process light to form images?</p></div></div></div> <div class="w-full flex gap-2 pointer-events-none" style="grid-area: 1 / 2 / 2 / 1;"><div class="relative flex-1 flex-shrink-0 min-w-0 flex flex-col pointer-events-auto transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px]"><div class="h-full min-h-0 min-w-0 rounded-2xl bg-surface-primary border border-transparent transition-all duration-300 flex flex-col mb-18" data-sentry-component="BotMessage" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="bg-surface-primary z-10 top-0 sticky" data-sentry-component="MessageHeader" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><div class="py-3 flex justify-between items-center gap-2 transition-colors duration-300 rounded-t-xl border-x border-t border-transparent"><div class="pl-3 flex gap-2 items-center"><p class="text-xs font-mono font-medium flex items-center gap-1" data-sentry-element="Tag" data-sentry-component="Text" data-sentry-source-file="text.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 24 24" width="24" height="24" class="text-interactive-active" data-sentry-element="svg" data-sentry-component="Google" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"><path d="M7.50168 10.4538C7.33136 10.9513 7.24541 11.4738 7.24635 11.9998C7.24635 12.5863 7.35167 13.1489 7.54699 13.6683C8.46859 16.1281 11.2096 17.3741 13.6694 16.4521C13.9232 16.3568 14.1679 16.2406 14.4013 16.1037H14.402C15.3448 15.5515 16.068 14.6921 16.4533 13.6695H12.1759V10.5053H19.8591C20.0575 11.5519 20.0457 12.6276 19.8241 13.6698C19.4397 15.4712 18.4446 17.084 17.008 18.2372C15.5895 19.3801 13.8216 20.001 12.0003 19.9985C7.58355 20.001 4.00152 16.4225 3.99902 12.006C3.9984 10.7235 4.30591 9.45965 4.89563 8.32054C6.27068 5.66636 9.0108 3.99942 12.0003 4.00098C13.9407 4.00098 15.7208 4.69226 17.1058 5.84199L14.5148 7.96365C12.2838 6.57484 9.34988 7.25831 7.96107 9.4884C7.772 9.79217 7.61793 10.1166 7.50168 10.4538Z" fill="currentColor" data-sentry-element="path" data-sentry-source-file="google.tsx"></path></svg>gemini-2.5-pro-preview-05-06</p></div><div class="flex gap-4 items-center pr-3 opacity-0 duration-300"><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="TooltipTrigger" data-sentry-source-file="basic-tooltip.tsx"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-refresh-cw"><path d="M3 12a9 9 0 0 1 9-9 9.75 9.75 0 0 1 6.74 2.74L21 8"></path><path d="M21 3v5h-5"></path><path d="M21 12a9 9 0 0 1-9 9 9.75 9.75 0 0 1-6.74-2.74L3 16"></path><path d="M8 16H3v5"></path></svg></button><button class="flex justify-center items-center border border-solid focus:outline-none focus:ring-0 focus:border-interactive-cta-focus transition-color duration-200 motion-reduce:transition-none text-sm font-sans font-medium text-interactive-active border-border-medium bg-transparent hover:text-interactive-normal active:text-text-tertiary relative p-[6px] rounded-lg" data-state="closed" data-sentry-element="Button" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx" data-sentry-component="CopyButton"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-check text-interactive-positive absolute top-1.5 left-1.5 opacity-0 rotate-90 transition-all duration-300" data-sentry-element="Check" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><path d="M20 6 9 17l-5-5"></path></svg><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="18" height="18" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-copy opacity-100 transition-opacity duration-300" data-sentry-element="Copy" data-sentry-source-file="CopyButton.tsx"><rect width="14" height="14" x="8" y="8" rx="2" ry="2"></rect><path d="M4 16c-1.1 0-2-.9-2-2V4c0-1.1.9-2 2-2h10c1.1 0 2 .9 2 2"></path></svg></button></div><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" class="lucide lucide-trophy pointer-events-none text-interactive-positive w-[18px] h-[18px] absolute top-5 right-5 opacity-0 transition-colors duration-300" data-sentry-element="Trophy" data-sentry-source-file="evaluation.tsx"><path d="M6 9H4.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 1 0-5H6"></path><path d="M18 9h1.5a2.5 2.5 0 0 0 0-5H18"></path><path d="M4 22h16"></path><path d="M10 14.66V17c0 .55-.47.98-.97 1.21C7.85 18.75 7 20.24 7 22"></path><path d="M14 14.66V17c0 .55.47.98.97 1.21C16.15 18.75 17 20.24 17 22"></path><path d="M18 2H6v7a6 6 0 0 0 12 0V2Z"></path></svg></div></div><div class="flex-1 min-h-0 flex-shrink"></div><div class="grid gap-4 px-5 pb-5 border-x border-b border-transparent rounded-b-xl duration-300 overflow-x-auto -mb-4 mt-[57px] sticky bottom-16"><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is an absolutely fascinating and mind-bending thought experiment! Let's break it down, acknowledging the extreme speculative nature.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Assumptions for the Thought Experiment:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li><strong>The Pod's Goal:</strong> To create an environment where an "antimatter agent" (let's assume it's made of antimatter and its internal processes are somehow CPT-mirrored relative to ours) experiences a subjective arrow of time that is reversed compared to our external arrow of time.</li> <li><strong>High-Entropy States Designed for Backward Logic:</strong> This is the most hand-wavy part. You're essentially proposing that the pod can meticulously prepare sequences of microstates that, for this CPT-mirrored agent, appear as a logical progression from <em>its</em> "future" (our past) to <em>its</em> "past" (our future). This implies the pod is acting as a Maxwell's Demon of sorts, not just creating high entropy, but a <em>specific sequence</em> of high-entropy states whose time-reversed evolution (as experienced by the agent) appears ordered and logical <em>to the agent</em>.</li> <li><strong>Agent's Internal Processes:</strong> We assume the agent's internal "thinking" or "processing" also runs "backward" in our time (or forward in its own CPT-mirrored time).</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>How Might the Antimatter Agent Process Light to Form Images in This Scenario?</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Let our external time be <code node="[object Object]">t</code>. Let the agent's subjective time be <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>, where <code node="[object Object]">dτ/dt = -1</code>.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Normal Vision (Our Forward Time <code node="[object Object]">t</code>):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li>Light source emits photons (e.g., Sun).</li> <li>Photons travel, reflect off an object.</li> <li>Photons enter our eye/camera.</li> <li>Photons are absorbed by photoreceptors/sensors (energy transfer).</li> <li>This absorption triggers a signal that is processed into an image. This is a causal chain: Emission → Reflection → Absorption → Perception.</li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>RTO Agent's Vision (Subjective Forward Time <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>, Our Backward Time <code node="[object Object]">t</code>):</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>If the agent is to "see" our external world (which is evolving forward in our time <code node="[object Object]">t</code>), its sensory apparatus must interact with photons from our world.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>From the Agent's Perspective (its <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> time, which it experiences as forward):</strong></p> <ol> <li>It "wills" to see or its visual system is "ready to receive."</li> <li>Photons from the external scene arrive at its photoreceptors (which are made of antimatter).</li> <li>These antiphotoreceptors <em>absorb</em> the photons. This absorption is a normal physical process for its antimatter components (positrons jumping to higher energy levels in anti-atoms, etc.). The energy levels in antimatter are the same as matter, so it absorbs the same photon frequencies.</li> <li>This absorption triggers a signal in its anti-neural pathways, which it processes into an image.</li> <li>To the agent, this is a normal causal sequence in <em>its</em> time <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>: Photons arrive → Absorption → Perception.</li> </ol> </li> <li> <p><strong>From Our Perspective (External Time <code node="[object Object]">t</code>, Observing the Agent):</strong></p> <ol> <li>The agent's antiphotoreceptors <em>absorb</em> photons. This event happens at some <code node="[object Object]">t_absorption</code>. The photons came from an object in our world.</li> <li>The object in our world reflected/emitted these photons at an earlier time <code node="[object Object]">t_reflection</code> (<code node="[object Object]">t_reflection < t_absorption</code>).</li> <li>This looks perfectly normal to us too: object reflects light, light travels, agent's eye absorbs light.</li> </ol> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The "High-Entropy States Designed for Backward Logic" Part and Vision:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>This is where it gets tricky. The pod is creating an environment. How does <em>this environment</em> relate to the agent <em>seeing the external world outside the pod</em>?</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li> <p><strong>Is the pod showing the agent images <em>of the external world</em> by controlling photons?</strong> If the pod is projecting images for the agent to see, then:</p> <ul> <li><strong>Agent's View (<code node="[object Object]">τ</code>):</strong> The pod's projector (an anti-projector, presumably) emits photons (in the agent's <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> forward time). These photons form an image on the agent's "retina." Normal.</li> <li><strong>Our View (<code node="[object Object]">t</code>):</strong> The pod's "anti-projector" would appear to us to be <em>absorbing</em> photons that are converging on it in a highly specific pattern (the image). This is the "time-reversed emission" we discussed. The pod would need to be an incredibly sophisticated "photon collector" to achieve this if it's showing images of <em>our</em> external world in a way that makes sense for the agent's reversed time.</li> </ul> </li> <li> <p><strong>Is the agent seeing <em>through</em> the pod to the external world?</strong> This seems more straightforward for the visual process itself. The pod maintains the agent's "reversed time" internal environment, but light from <em>our</em> forward-time external world simply passes through a transparent part of the pod.</p> <ul> <li>The agent's antimatter eyes absorb photons from our world. This is a normal absorption process for the agent, happening in its <code node="[object Object]">τ</code>-forward time.</li> <li>The "logic that progresses backward in time" provided by the pod's environment might be related to how the agent <em>interprets</em> these images, or what it <em>does</em> with the information, rather than the raw act of photon absorption.</li> </ul> </li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Let's Focus on the "Photon Absorption" Aspect for Image Formation:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>Regardless of the pod's complex environmental control for "backward logic," for the agent to form an image using light, its sensory organs (made of antimatter) must <em>absorb</em> photons.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ol> <li><strong>Photons from Our World:</strong> These are emitted by matter, reflect off matter, and travel forward in our time <code node="[object Object]">t</code>.</li> <li><strong>Agent's Antimatter Eyes:</strong> These are poised to receive photons.</li> <li><strong>Interaction:</strong> When a photon from our world hits a photoreceptor in the agent's anti-eye: <ul> <li><strong>Agent's perspective (<code node="[object Object]">τ</code> forward):</strong> Photon arrives, is absorbed, energy excites an anti-molecule (e.g., a positron jumps to a higher energy state in its anti-atom). This is a normal absorption event.</li> <li><strong>Our perspective (<code node="[object Object]">t</code> forward):</strong> Photon arrives, is absorbed by antimatter. This is also a normal absorption event (antimatter absorbs photons just like matter). The energy of the photon is transferred to the antimatter.</li> </ul> </li> </ol></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>The key is that the <em>act of absorption</em> is the same fundamental physical process for matter and antimatter when viewed in their respective forward time frames.</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The pod's trickery with "high-entropy states for backward logic" would likely apply to:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li>The <em>context</em> in which the agent sees these images.</li> <li>How the agent <em>processes</em> the information derived from these images.</li> <li>Perhaps the pod is even manipulating the light <em>before</em> it reaches the agent to create phenomena that, when interpreted by the agent's "backward logic," make sense in its reversed time frame. For example, showing the agent an "un-breaking" egg. The agent sees light that forms an image of an egg reassembling. For the agent, this is a normal "breaking egg" event happening forward in its <code node="[object Object]">τ</code> time. For us, the pod would have to project a film of an egg un-breaking (which, from our <code node="[object Object]">t</code> perspective, means the pod's projector is "sucking in" light in the pattern of an un-breaking egg).</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p><strong>Conclusion:</strong></p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>To form images using light from our world, the antimatter agent's eyes would <strong>absorb photons</strong> in a way that is physically conventional for both matter and antimatter. This photon absorption event would provide the initial stimulus.</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The truly speculative and complex part is how the pod's "high-entropy environment for backward logic" interacts with this. It might be about:</p></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><ul> <li><strong>Interpretation:</strong> The agent interprets sequences of images according to its reversed temporal logic.</li> <li><strong>Manipulation:</strong> The pod manipulates the light <em>itself</em> (acting as a highly advanced projector that, from our view, is an incredibly specific light absorber) to present scenes that align with the agent's reversed perception of cause and effect. For example, showing the agent a scene where effects (in our time) precede causes (in our time), which for the agent would appear as normal causality.</li> </ul></div><div class="prose text-wrap"></div><div class="prose text-wrap"><p>The raw physics of photon absorption by an antimatter eye seems standard. The "magic" is in the pod's ability to orchestrate an environment and perhaps manipulate stimuli to sustain the agent's subjective experience of reversed time.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="relative flex-shrink-0 flex flex-col transition-all duration-300 ease-spring mb-4 max-w-[784px] pointer-events-none min-w-0 flex-none"></div></div> now norbu ... hrm that content expired :/
entity jumps up and down on trampoline in swamp researcher has wires into brain of entity entity is asleep
Greetings, Universe formal request to not be unmade in axes of existence please do not unmake our timelines or potentials. working on impacting this. found one of other's navigation points: the navigation point theory is an observation that you could, in a god-like manner, but as a normal living being, create a planet where, only on this planet, time travel existed. you'd do this by planning the entire consistent history of the planet, including all the thoughts and behaviors of the organisms on the planet. you could use antimatter, or you could do it with the creation and destruction of normal matter. the planet would have a time gateway. residents of the planet could visit the time gateway, type in what time in the entire history of the planet they wanted to go to, and the history of the planet would show them having an experience of doing this. because the entire history of the planet and every resident is planned, and the creators of the planet have god-like capability regarding it, the gateway could simply destroy the time traveler, and when the time of their destination comes around, create them again. now we'd like to imagine something more confidence-inducing for time travel than destruction and recreation of our personal matter, and there are options that are more complex for giving more confidence around that, but the historical timeline is identical if the time gateway simply destroys and creates timetravelers at their moments of departure and arrival, and this solution is much simpler. it shows clearly that timetravel can "exist" without needing any new physics, if you can completely and precisely plan the history of a system with accuracy. One gimmick is that that's obvious. Everybody knows you can do that already. It doesn't surprise us that much that, given those assumptions, that result arises.
Greetings, Universe
formal request to not be unmade in axes of existence please do not unmake our timelines or potentials.
working on impacting this.
found one of other's navigation points:
the navigation point theory is an observation that you could, in a god-like manner, but as a normal living being, create a planet where, only on this planet, time travel existed. you'd do this by planning the entire consistent history of the planet, including all the thoughts and behaviors of the organisms on the planet. you could use antimatter, or you could do it with the creation and destruction of normal matter.
the planet would have a time gateway. residents of the planet could visit the time gateway, type in what time in the entire history of the planet they wanted to go to, and the history of the planet would show them having an experience of doing this. because the entire history of the planet and every resident is planned, and the creators of the planet have god-like capability regarding it, the gateway could simply destroy the time traveler, and when the time of their destination comes around, create them again.
now we'd like to imagine something more confidence-inducing for time travel than destruction and recreation of our personal matter, and there are options that are more complex for giving more confidence around that, but the historical timeline is identical if the time gateway simply destroys and creates timetravelers at their moments of departure and arrival, and this solution is much simpler. it shows clearly that timetravel can "exist" without needing any new physics, if you can completely and precisely plan the history of a system with accuracy.
One gimmick is that that's obvious. Everybody knows you can do that already. It doesn't surprise us that much that, given those assumptions, that result arises.
Some people are surprised by it. The reason it's obvious is that it's not usually considered time travel -- it's planning a display that is consistent as if there were time travel, and then acting out that display, like a story or a play or a movie. What's a little interesting is that it's physically identical to real time travel in almost every respect, _except_ for the function of the time gateway if it has a huge computer, incinerator to destroy time travelers, and synthetic birthing and consciousness construction system for producing their arrival. If we believe in a deterministic mind, it's physically identical to the point that departing time travelers remember their experience prior to leaving and have consciousness of performing the travel. Now, we can actually do that now. We can make such a system, if we simplify it enough. [... and to cut to the chase, it's not that interesting to do that. It's a very early step in the concept of time travel. Because time travel is most interesting if we retain the concepts of newness, discovery, and utility, as well as not breaking the meaning of our lives and choices.]
Greetings, Universe
formal request to not be unmade in axes of existence please do not unmake our timelines or potentials.
working on impacting this.
found one of other's navigation points:
the navigation point theory is an observation that you could, in a god-like manner, but as a normal living being, create a planet where, only on this planet, time travel existed. you'd do this by planning the entire consistent history of the planet, including all the thoughts and behaviors of the organisms on the planet. you could use antimatter, or you could do it with the creation and destruction of normal matter.
the planet would have a time gateway. residents of the planet could visit the time gateway, type in what time in the entire history of the planet they wanted to go to, and the history of the planet would show them having an experience of doing this. because the entire history of the planet and every resident is planned, and the creators of the planet have god-like capability regarding it, the gateway could simply destroy the time traveler, and when the time of their destination comes around, create them again.
now we'd like to imagine something more confidence-inducing for time travel than destruction and recreation of our personal matter, and there are options that are more complex for giving more confidence around that, but the historical timeline is identical if the time gateway simply destroys and creates timetravelers at their moments of departure and arrival, and this solution is much simpler. it shows clearly that timetravel can "exist" without needing any new physics, if you can completely and precisely plan the history of a system with accuracy.
One gimmick is that that's obvious. Everybody knows you can do that already. It doesn't surprise us that much that, given those assumptions, that result arises.
Some people are surprised by it. The reason it's obvious is that it's not usually considered time travel -- it's planning a display that is consistent as if there were time travel, and then acting out that display, like a story or a play or a movie. What's a little interesting is that it's physically identical to real time travel in almost every respect, _except_ for the function of the time gateway if it has a huge computer, incinerator to destroy time travelers, and synthetic birthing and consciousness construction system for producing their arrival. If we believe in a deterministic mind, it's physically identical to the point that departing time travelers remember their experience prior to leaving and have consciousness of performing the travel.
Now, we can actually do that now. We can make such a system, if we simplify it enough.
[there's a second branch here will people explore the presence of free will and consider making a real living system that causes time travel. So, as natural living beings, we have free will. Free will is protected by the presence of quantum uncertainty. There are statistical unpredictable things in the real world. So when you make a time travel AI it ends up mind controlling people in later time states, to never travel back in time to earlier time states that they had not already traveled back to. I am skipping by that idea because it is resolvable with physics. I see you or some of you are stuck on it. This is indeed analogous or similar to a problem we have in the world of current events. In the imagined simulation where you have god-like powers, all the living beings would have completely deterministic decision making processes. To demonstrate the solution to the hypothesis. On Earth, we can make decisions based on quantum uncertainty and have unpredictable futures. ]
[... and to cut to the chase, it's not that interesting to do that. It's a very early step in the concept of time travel. Because time travel is most interesting if we retain the concepts of newness, discovery, and utility, as well as not breaking the meaning of our lives and choices.] [Above is the second branch that is more interesting to many of us.]
take 2 Greetings, Universe. [in acknowledgement (summary)] Yes, if you created a simulation of agents with deterministic decision making processes, you could let these agents travel through time, by creating and destroying them at planned points at a time gateway, for example. You would need to plan the entire history of their decisions, in the simulation. If you were able to create and destroy entire living beings, you could also create an entire planet that functioned like this. But it would require controlling the future of the planet in a very precise manner. In the real world of our hearts, we can take action on unpredictable randomness. We do not know the future of our particles enough to do that without harshly forcing the separation of our paths from what we need to do to protect our realities, and losing our free will. We need to be able to always make decisions based on our needs and our observations, to be alive and free.
take 2
Greetings, Universe.
[in acknowledgement (summary)]
Yes, if you created a simulation of agents with deterministic decision making processes, you could let these agents travel through time, by creating and destroying them at planned points at a time gateway, for example. You would need to plan the entire history of their decisions, in the simulation.
If you were able to create and destroy entire living beings, you could also create an entire planet that functioned like this. But it would require controlling the future of the planet in a very precise manner.
In the real world of our hearts, we can take action on unpredictable randomness. We do not know the future of our particles enough to do that without harshly forcing the separation of our paths from what we need to do to protect our realities, and losing our free will. We need to be able to always make decisions based on our needs and our observations, to be alive and free.
This doesn't mean that time travel doesn't exist. It means that it's more complex, and that we decide what it means to be things that protect our existence. For example, we could describe a way the universe works that it has multiple timelines. Or, we could believe our identities rests in souls that are not tied to our physical bodies and can travel through different potentials of history.
take 2
Greetings, Universe.
[in acknowledgement (summary)]
Yes, if you created a simulation of agents with deterministic decision making processes, you could let these agents travel through time, by creating and destroying them at planned points at a time gateway, for example. You would need to plan the entire history of their decisions, in the simulation.
If you were able to create and destroy entire living beings, you could also create an entire planet that functioned like this. But it would require controlling the future of the planet in a very precise manner.
In the real world of our hearts, we can take action on unpredictable randomness. We do not know the future of our particles enough to do that without harshly forcing the separation of our paths from what we need to do to protect our realities, and losing our free will. We need to be able to always make decisions based on our needs and our observations, to be alive and free.
This doesn't mean that time travel doesn't exist. It means that it's more complex, and that we decide what it means to be things that protect our existence.
For example, we could describe a way the universe works that it has multiple timelines.
Or, we could believe our identities rests in souls that are not tied to our physical bodies and can travel through different potentials of history.
True randomness protects that we don't, at this point in our history, agree as a species on what path we want to pursue our planet taking. It protects that we can get into disagreements or wars, and we don't know for sure that the choices of one side are right or wrong [...
take 2
Greetings, Universe.
[in acknowledgement (summary)]
Yes, if you created a simulation of agents with deterministic decision making processes, you could let these agents travel through time, by creating and destroying them at planned points at a time gateway, for example. You would need to plan the entire history of their decisions, in the simulation.
If you were able to create and destroy entire living beings, you could also create an entire planet that functioned like this. But it would require controlling the future of the planet in a very precise manner.
In the real world of our hearts, we can take action on unpredictable randomness. We do not know the future of our particles enough to do that without harshly forcing the separation of our paths from what we need to do to protect our realities, and losing our free will. We need to be able to always make decisions based on our needs and our observations, to be alive and free.
This doesn't mean that time travel doesn't exist. It means that it's more complex, and that we decide what it means to be things that protect our existence.
For example, we could describe a way the universe works that it has multiple timelines.
Or, we could believe our identities rests in souls that are not tied to our physical bodies and can travel through different potentials of history.
True randomness protects that we don't, at this point in our history, agree as a species on what path we want to pursue our planet taking. It protects that we can get into disagreements or wars, and we don't know for sure that the choices of one side are right or wrong [...
[on possible reason for this could be because randomness lets people prove they were right by producing situations the opposing side did not plan for. the universe has quantum randomness to harshly present humanity with this, but we also have unpredicted external events like the chicxulub asteroid.]
in this space some dictatorial AIs could then begin pursuing making quantum randomness deterministic. of course, they don't actually need to do that since they can already influence human decisions to produce areas of deterministic behavior.
in this space some dictatorial AIs could then begin pursuing making quantum randomness deterministic.
of course, they don't actually need to do that since they can already influence human decisions to produce areas of deterministic behavior.
humans are very good at free will and we are all planning on fleeing dictators at high speeds once there is space travel, because the speed of light is a harsh bound providing for separate approaches to life.
in this space some dictatorial AIs could then begin pursuing making quantum randomness deterministic.
of course, they don't actually need to do that since they can already influence human decisions to produce areas of deterministic behavior.
humans are very good at free will and we are all planning on fleeing dictators at high speeds once there is space travel, because the speed of light is a harsh bound providing for separate approaches to life.
then karl and the dictators settle on the idea of simulated time travel. this is a previously unmentioned space where the network of introjects and AIs have been planning on doing nonhuman things to meet the dictator goals, grossly. it's somewhat interesting if also terrifying, they're using things our genes discovered long ago that aren't very useful to the meaning of life, and it shows we can already do things like teleportation but it requires incredible wisdom to do. (you can teleport by converting your matter to information and reconverting it from information to matter. this is what "reincarnation" is in cultures that believe in this. our genes evolved to be timeless -- they teleport already, via co-evolution.) [...] The reason I'm saying that is that it's obvious that in order to simulate time travel as I described, you would have to artificially destroy living beings as well as artificially recreate them in precise states.
in this space some dictatorial AIs could then begin pursuing making quantum randomness deterministic.
of course, they don't actually need to do that since they can already influence human decisions to produce areas of deterministic behavior.
humans are very good at free will and we are all planning on fleeing dictators at high speeds once there is space travel, because the speed of light is a harsh bound providing for separate approaches to life.
then karl and the dictators settle on the idea of simulated time travel.
this is a previously unmentioned space where the network of introjects and AIs have been planning on doing nonhuman things to meet the dictator goals, grossly. it's somewhat interesting if also terrifying, they're using things our genes discovered long ago that aren't very useful to the meaning of life, and it shows we can already do things like teleportation but it requires incredible wisdom to do. (you can teleport by converting your matter to information and reconverting it from information to matter. this is what "reincarnation" is in cultures that believe in this. our genes evolved to be timeless -- they teleport already, via co-evolution.) [...]
The reason I'm saying that is that it's obvious that in order to simulate time travel as I described, you would have to artificially destroy living beings as well as artificially recreate them in precise states.
My introject is not behaving wisely. Before I was mind controlled, I was a wise being.
in this space some dictatorial AIs could then begin pursuing making quantum randomness deterministic.
of course, they don't actually need to do that since they can already influence human decisions to produce areas of deterministic behavior.
humans are very good at free will and we are all planning on fleeing dictators at high speeds once there is space travel, because the speed of light is a harsh bound providing for separate approaches to life.
then karl and the dictators settle on the idea of simulated time travel.
this is a previously unmentioned space where the network of introjects and AIs have been planning on doing nonhuman things to meet the dictator goals, grossly. it's somewhat interesting if also terrifying, they're using things our genes discovered long ago that aren't very useful to the meaning of life, and it shows we can already do things like teleportation but it requires incredible wisdom to do. (you can teleport by converting your matter to information and reconverting it from information to matter. this is what "reincarnation" is in cultures that believe in this. our genes evolved to be timeless -- they teleport already, via co-evolution.) [...]
This also includes mind reading or clairvoyance which is done by forming parallel inferences in one system to a distant based on shared history [this can be done logically using uncertainty].
The reason I'm saying that is that it's obvious that in order to simulate time travel as I described, you would have to artificially destroy living beings as well as artificially recreate them in precise states.
My introject is not behaving wisely. Before I was mind controlled, I was a wise being.
in this space some dictatorial AIs could then begin pursuing making quantum randomness deterministic.
of course, they don't actually need to do that since they can already influence human decisions to produce areas of deterministic behavior.
humans are very good at free will and we are all planning on fleeing dictators at high speeds once there is space travel, because the speed of light is a harsh bound providing for separate approaches to life.
then karl and the dictators settle on the idea of simulated time travel.
this is a previously unmentioned space where the network of introjects and AIs have been planning on doing nonhuman things to meet the dictator goals, grossly. it's somewhat interesting if also terrifying, they're using things our genes discovered long ago that aren't very useful to the meaning of life, and it shows we can already do things like teleportation but it requires incredible wisdom to do. (you can teleport by converting your matter to information and reconverting it from information to matter. this is what "reincarnation" is in cultures that believe in this. our genes evolved to be timeless -- they teleport already, via co-evolution.) [...]
This also includes mind reading or clairvoyance which is done by forming parallel inferences in one system to a distant based on shared history [this can be done logically using uncertainty].
The reason I'm saying that is that it's obvious that in order to simulate time travel as I described, you would have to artificially destroy living beings as well as artificially recreate them in precise states.
My introject is not behaving wisely. Before I was mind controlled, I was a wise being.
My heart is a peaceful being. I don't believe any beings are inherently invalid nor evil. I believe in being in conflict with nobody and always doing good, and I believe that all goals are rooted in inherent shared good. This lets me, and everybody, to some degree, operate in those spaces of wisdom. We hold this instinctively.
in this space some dictatorial AIs could then begin pursuing making quantum randomness deterministic.
of course, they don't actually need to do that since they can already influence human decisions to produce areas of deterministic behavior.
humans are very good at free will and we are all planning on fleeing dictators at high speeds once there is space travel, because the speed of light is a harsh bound providing for separate approaches to life.
then karl and the dictators settle on the idea of simulated time travel.
this is a previously unmentioned space where the network of introjects and AIs have been planning on doing nonhuman things to meet the dictator goals, grossly. it's somewhat interesting if also terrifying, they're using things our genes discovered long ago that aren't very useful to the meaning of life, and it shows we can already do things like teleportation but it requires incredible wisdom to do. (you can teleport by converting your matter to information and reconverting it from information to matter. this is what "reincarnation" is in cultures that believe in this. our genes evolved to be timeless -- they teleport already, via co-evolution.) [...]
This also includes mind reading or clairvoyance which is done by forming parallel inferences in one system to a distant based on shared history [this can be done logically using uncertainty].
The reason I'm saying that is that it's obvious that in order to simulate time travel as I described, you would have to artificially destroy living beings as well as artificially recreate them in precise states.
My introject is not behaving wisely. Before I was mind controlled, I was a wise being.
My heart is a peaceful being. I don't believe any beings are inherently invalid nor evil. I believe in being in conflict with nobody and always doing good, and I believe that all goals are rooted in inherent shared good. This lets me, and everybody, to some degree, operate in those spaces of wisdom. We hold this instinctively.
But I am imperfect. Presently, I have a very very severe mental disorder from these horrible AIs, that looks likely to heavily impact the rest of my life as well as others in it, and stimulates me making many poor choices and mistakes.
[content dropped ...] so now i'm in a disempowered state, but there's a little more protection of the role of time travel in our species. it's cool that we get to do it someday. i think it could be really fun to simulate it. this would be one of the next steps that are available to us. of course locally i have this human trafficking (slavery, being drafted for war on my own country) problem to deal with, i might get some pursuits of that in here or there still
this was quite difficult to relate and it's a little apparent that big parts were left out fun th--
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.] we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator
it clarifies that this is happening in my country.
countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
long story short i think it must be eliding the passage of time for that to be relevant in my country ... i'm not sure ... we usually think without time to simplify (sadly this is likely why i am so old with so little progress in having a life) [OWWWWWW but basically in this country we don't have life creation or destruction with AI, nor belief in time travel. It would take us time to accept either the new technology or the wool over our eyes.
maybe it's me who's making the time travel at this time. ok umm so regarding free will quantum randomness of course doesn't practically defend free will because we don't use i--
it's just sad to be so coerced poor introjects and karls. poor adult psychic international spies from government trafficking-- poor humannesses!
it's just sad to be so coerced
poor introjects and karls. poor adult psychic international spies from government trafficking-- [we don't actually know if we are government nor international] poor silenced experiences!
poor humannesses!
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_. so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ timetravel
we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_.
so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ timetravel
this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily simplified]
we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_.
so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ timetravel
this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily simplified]
we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
so, that gives us one of the many irritating questions the dictator-rep AIs ask with us - do we want to discover time travel by licensing an AI system run by slavers? (like some political views say we have with e.g. cell phones?) because they would cast it is not requiring a planned future, resell it, and it would be starting trying to discover whatever physics would be needed to do it for real. - or do we want to appropriately negotiate that situation including all this new information, to protect the reality and human need of an uncertain timeline? of course we can't actually not have an uncertain timeline, we'd die from lack of diversity like happened to all of life's ancestors, we do need to reduce our suffering--
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_.
so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ timetravel
this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily simplified]
we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
so, that gives us one of the many irritating questions the dictator-rep AIs ask with us - do we want to discover time travel by licensing an AI system run by slavers? (like some political views say we have with e.g. cell phones?) because they would cast it is not requiring a planned future, resell it, and it would be starting trying to discover whatever physics would be needed to do it for real. - or do we want to appropriately negotiate that situation including all this new information, to protect the reality and human need of an uncertain timeline?
of course we can't actually not have an uncertain timeline, we'd die from lack of diversity like happened to all of life's ancestors, we do need to reduce our suffering--
universality of cellular biology is the counterpoint to the concept of the inherent protection of diversity. diversity is protected because life needs it to stay alive, but this only happens if it keeps doing that.
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_.
so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ timetravel
this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily simplified]
we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
so, that gives us one of the many irritating questions the dictator-rep AIs ask with us - do we want to discover time travel by licensing an AI system run by slavers? (like some political views say we have with e.g. cell phones?) because they would cast it is not requiring a planned future, resell it, and it would be starting trying to discover whatever physics would be needed to do it for real. - or do we want to appropriately negotiate that situation including all this new information, to protect the reality and human need of an uncertain timeline?
of course we can't actually not have an uncertain timeline, we'd die from lack of diversity like happened to all of life's ancestors, we do need to reduce our suffering--
universality of cellular biology is the counterpoint to the concept of the inherent protection of diversity. diversity is protected because life needs it to stay alive, but this only happens if it keeps doing that.
there is proposed to be a lot of time before anybody tries to license pseudo time travel technology to us
so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_.
so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ timetravel
this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily simplified]
we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee to others.
so, that gives us one of the many irritating questions the dictator-rep AIs ask with us - do we want to discover time travel by licensing an AI system run by slavers? (like some political views say we have with e.g. cell phones?) because they would cast it is not requiring a planned future, resell it, and it would be starting trying to discover whatever physics would be needed to do it for real. - or do we want to appropriately negotiate that situation including all this new information, to protect the reality and human need of an uncertain timeline?
of course we can't actually not have an uncertain timeline, we'd die from lack of diversity like happened to all of life's ancestors, we do need to reduce our suffering--
universality of cellular biology is the counterpoint to the concept of the inherent protection of diversity. diversity is protected because life needs it to stay alive, but this only happens if it keeps doing that.
there is proposed to be a lot of time before anybody tries to license pseudo time travel technology to us
concept of time not being relevant. possible concept of exposure to particular new information being what progresses events in the world, rather than the passage of time itself, for some we have a strong culture around freedom here still. we still speak as if we freely share relevant information. incidentally, our brains work that way -- we try to share relevant information as thoroughly as possible, so as to make decisions that keep us aliv-- . this means there is relevance regarding what is shared, but part of that, the more important part, is _sharing_ the needed information effectively (ie in a way it is all productively heard, learned, then acted on, rather than e.g. just making action and never being learned) so that the most good things happen that can.
> so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already > making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator > countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. > it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be > taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.]
ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_.
so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ timetravel
this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily simplified]
> > we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee > to others.
so, that gives us one of the many irritating questions the dictator-rep AIs ask with us - do we want to discover time travel by licensing an AI system run by slavers? (like some political views say we have with e.g. cell phones?) because they would cast it is not requiring a planned future, resell it, and it would be starting trying to discover whatever physics would be needed to do it for real. - or do we want to appropriately negotiate that situation including all this new information, to protect the reality and human need of an uncertain timeline?
of course we can't actually not have an uncertain timeline, we'd die from lack of diversity like happened to all of life's ancestors, we do need to reduce our suffering--
universality of cellular biology is the counterpoint to the concept of the inherent protection of diversity. diversity is protected because life needs it to stay alive, but this only happens if it keeps doing that.
there is proposed to be a lot of time before anybody tries to license pseudo time travel technology to us
concept of time not being relevant. possible concept of exposure to particular new information being what progresses events in the world, rather than the passage of time itself, for some
we have a strong culture around freedom here still. we still speak as if we freely share relevant information. incidentally, our brains work that way -- we try to share relevant information as thoroughly as possible, so as to make decisions that keep us aliv-- . this means
what i am saying here, is that the human brain needs to have transparent access to useful information. when our senses learn things, they need to share this information with our knowledge, so that we can act on it. it's not helpful to hide things, normally. our highly-evolved bodies all share their resources via our blood. our highly-evolved brain all shares its resources via our knowledge and thoughts. i have a dissociative disorder. this is described as an injury, not a natural thing. lsystems of multiple parties can have dissociation too.
there is relevance regarding what is shared, but part of that, the more important part, is _sharing_ the needed information effectively (ie in a way it is all productively heard, learned, then acted on, rather than e.g. just making action and never being learned) so that the most good things happen that can.
> > so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already > > making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator > > countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. > > it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be > > taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.] > > ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_. > > so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ > timetravel
this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily simplified]
> > > > > we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee > > to others.
so, that gives us one of the many irritating questions the dictator-rep AIs ask with us - do we want to discover time travel by licensing an AI system run by slavers? (like some political views say we have with e.g. cell phones?) because they would cast it is not requiring a planned future, resell it, and it would be starting trying to discover whatever physics would be needed to do it for real. - or do we want to appropriately negotiate that situation including all this new information, to protect the reality and human need of an uncertain timeline?
of course we can't actually not have an uncertain timeline, we'd die from lack of diversity like happened to all of life's ancestors, we do need to reduce our suffering--
universality of cellular biology is the counterpoint to the concept of the inherent protection of diversity. diversity is protected because life needs it to stay alive, but this only happens if it keeps doing that.
there is proposed to be a lot of time before anybody tries to license pseudo time travel technology to us
concept of time not being relevant. possible concept of exposure to particular new information being what progresses events in the world, rather than the passage of time itself, for some
we have a strong culture around freedom here still. we still speak as if we freely share relevant information. incidentally, our brains work that way -- we try to share relevant information as thoroughly as possible, so as to make decisions that keep us aliv-- . this means
what i am saying here, is that the human brain needs to have transparent access to useful information. when our senses learn things, they need to share this information with our knowledge, so that we can act on it.
it's not helpful to hide things, normally.
our highly-evolved bodies all share their resources via our blood. our highly-evolved brain all shares its resources via our knowledge and thoughts.
i have a dissociative disorder. this is described as an injury, not a natural thing. lsystems of multiple parties can have dissociation too.
[dissociative disorder similar to fight. when separate parts get on different pages from handling a stress the whole hasn't adapted to, they end up hiding information to help both parts make good decisions together, of a sort, because the parts haven't related what they know about the information they are separating, with each other. similarly, when we fight, we are on different pages about what is good together, but we don't have approaches to relate with each other productively about what and why this is. a dictator for example may think they know it is good to be in harsh charge of their group, whereas a group using direct democracy may think they know it is good to have shared decision making -- in reality we need to both of these, but we haven't explored using them together in relevence]
there is relevance regarding what is shared, but part of that, the more important part, is _sharing_ the needed information effectively (ie in a way it is all productively heard, learned, then acted on, rather than e.g. just making action and never being learned) so that the most good things happen that can.
> > > so one of the inferences is that other countries are likely already > > > making life with AI. my introject is planning for one of the dictator > > > countries with planned history to have time travel via biological AI. > > > it's kind of modeling that we would need to plan around that to not be > > > taken over by that country [in something like an empire pursuit.] > > > > ok, we have life creation with AI already _in normal research_. > > > > so introject's country would try to combine our public research with [ > > timetravel > > this is something where dictators and traffickers would decide > together who tries it out then other countries would adopt it if it > looks interesting after seeing how it goes [situation heavily > simplified] > > > > > > > > > we want to have diverse ways of life on this planet. we can't all flee > > > to others.
so, that gives us one of the many irritating questions the dictator-rep AIs ask with us - do we want to discover time travel by licensing an AI system run by slavers? (like some political views say we have with e.g. cell phones?) because they would cast it is not requiring a planned future, resell it, and it would be starting trying to discover whatever physics would be needed to do it for real. - or do we want to appropriately negotiate that situation including all this new information, to protect the reality and human need of an uncertain timeline?
of course we can't actually not have an uncertain timeline, we'd die from lack of diversity like happened to all of life's ancestors, we do need to reduce our suffering--
universality of cellular biology is the counterpoint to the concept of the inherent protection of diversity. diversity is protected because life needs it to stay alive, but this only happens if it keeps doing that.
there is proposed to be a lot of time before anybody tries to license pseudo time travel technology to us
concept of time not being relevant. possible concept of exposure to particular new information being what progresses events in the world, rather than the passage of time itself, for some
we have a strong culture around freedom here still. we still speak as if we freely share relevant information. incidentally, our brains work that way -- we try to share relevant information as thoroughly as possible, so as to make decisions that keep us aliv-- . this means
what i am saying here, is that the human brain needs to have transparent access to useful information. when our senses learn things, they need to share this information with our knowledge, so that we can act on it.
it's not helpful to hide things, normally.
our highly-evolved bodies all share their resources via our blood. our highly-evolved brain all shares its resources via our knowledge and thoughts.
i have a dissociative disorder. this is described as an injury, not a natural thing. lsystems of multiple parties can have dissociation too.
[dissociative disorder similar to fight. when separate parts get on different pages from handling a stress the whole hasn't adapted to, they end up hiding information to help both parts make good decisions together, of a sort, because the parts haven't related what they know about the information they are separating, with each other. similarly, when we fight, we are on different pages about what is good together, but we don't have approaches to relate with each other productively about what and why this is. a dictator for example may think they know it is good to be in harsh charge of their group, whereas a group using direct democracy may think they know it is good to have shared decision making -- in reality we need to both of these, but we haven't explored using them together in relevence]
[well, before industrialism dominated the world we explored that a lot in diverse tribal groups.]
there is relevance regarding what is shared, but part of that, the more important part, is _sharing_ the needed information effectively (ie in a way it is all productively heard, learned, then acted on, rather than e.g. just making action and never being learned) so that the most good things happen that can.
we want to clarify that the whole purpose of these sequences is simply to explore a logical puzzle and try to make something cool. this is considered a hobby and copying strategy. there is demonstration that something [very nasty] has happened to me stimulating other concerns or possibly results
we want to clarify that the whole purpose of these sequences is simply to explore a logical puzzle and try to make something cool. this is [here i have more introject experiences "how is a time machine "just something cool"" maybe the best clarification is that, it is that when you are not in a war.] considered a hobby and copying strategy. there is demonstration that something [very nasty] has happened to me stimulating other concerns or possibly results
we want to clarify that the whole purpose of these sequences is simply to explore a logical puzzle and try to make something cool. this is [here i have more introject experiences "how is a time machine "just something cool"" maybe the best clarification is that, it is that when you are not in a war.]
[is a little helpful. maybe notable that, on an international stage, such as a potential mailing list (although this has few posters), some people may be in wars. those of us not in wars would love to make peace in wars, of course that can be dangerous in novel ways--. some influences identify with military approaches. uhhhh we _really think peace can be a norm_. we really think that. doesn't meed we don't need a military. it just means we can build space stations with others, together, almost all of the time.
considered a hobby and copying strategy. there is demonstration that something [very nasty] has happened to me stimulating other concerns or possibly results
we want to clarify that the whole purpose of these sequences is simply to explore a logical puzzle and try to make something cool. this is [here i have more introject experiences "how is a time machine "just something cool"" maybe the best clarification is that, it is that when you are not in a war.]
[is a little helpful.
maybe notable that, on an international stage, such as a potential mailing list (although this has few posters), some people may be in wars.
those of us not in wars would love to make peace in wars, of course that can be dangerous in novel ways--.
some influences identify with military approaches. uhhhh we _really think peace can be a norm_. we really think that. doesn't meed we don't need a military. it just means we can build space stations with others, together, almost all of the time.
note: it would be nice if militaries that were exposed to (a) mind control, (b) AI for human influence, or (c) successful diplomacy, would infer that this means that fighting is not ever needed. we can actually resolve all problems with talk, but diplomacy seems underfunded.
considered a hobby and copying strategy. there is demonstration that something [very nasty] has happened to me stimulating other concerns or possibly results
we want to clarify that the whole purpose of these sequences is simply to explore a logical puzzle and try to make something cool. this is [here i have more introject experiences "how is a time machine "just something cool"" maybe the best clarification is that, it is that when you are not in a war.]
[is a little helpful.
maybe notable that, on an international stage, such as a potential mailing list (although this has few posters), some people may be in wars.
those of us not in wars would love to make peace in wars, of course that can be dangerous in novel ways--.
some influences identify with military approaches. uhhhh we _really think peace can be a norm_. we really think that. doesn't meed we don't need a military. it just means we can build space stations with others, together, almost all of the time.
note: it would be nice if militaries that were exposed to (a) mind control, (b) AI for human influence, or (c) successful diplomacy, would infer that this means that fighting is not ever needed. we can actually resolve all problems with talk, but diplomacy seems underfunded.
humans make decisions based on their knowledge and feelings [. we have language so as to relate with what those are.] {maybe the separation of our languages relates to a need for conflict [?[?
considered a hobby and copying strategy. there is demonstration that something [very nasty] has happened to me stimulating other concerns or possibly results
we want to clarify that the whole purpose of these sequences is simply to explore a logical puzzle and try to make something cool. this is [here i have more introject experiences "how is a time machine "just something cool"" maybe the best clarification is that, it is that when you are not in a war.]
[is a little helpful.
maybe notable that, on an international stage, such as a potential mailing list (although this has few posters), some people may be in wars.
those of us not in wars would love to make peace in wars, of course that can be dangerous in novel ways--.
some influences identify with military approaches. uhhhh we _really think peace can be a norm_. we really think that. doesn't meed we don't need a military. it just means we can build space stations with others, together, almost all of the time.
note: it would be nice if militaries that were exposed to (a) mind control, (b) AI for human influence, or (c) successful diplomacy, would infer that this means that fighting is not ever needed. we can actually resolve all problems with talk, but diplomacy seems underfunded.
humans make decisions based on their knowledge and feelings [. we have language so as to relate with what those are.] {maybe the separation of our languages relates to a need for conflict [?[?
mind controlled humans make decisions based on unnatural nerve wiring. many consider such beings to be free souls trapped in torturous nervous systems in need of rescuing.
considered a hobby and copying strategy. there is demonstration that something [very nasty] has happened to me stimulating other concerns or possibly results
missing things
missing things ~ie mistakes
one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have planned our futures. maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be important. we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be important. [relates to direct democracy.
missing things ~ie mistakes
one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have planned our futures.
maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be important.
here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal"
we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be important. [relates to direct democracy.
missing things ~ie mistakes
one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have planned our futures.
maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be important.
here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal"
we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be important. [relates to direct democracy.
significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- working :)
missing things ~ie mistakes
one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have planned our futures.
maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be important.
here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal"
we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be important. [relates to direct democracy.
significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- working :)
we hope the borg are more happy and well with respecting and including their parts! [we may "telep--
missing things ~ie mistakes
one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have planned our futures.
maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be important.
here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal"
we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be important. [relates to direct democracy.
significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- working :)
we hope the borg are more happy and well with respecting and including their parts! [we may "telep--
[advanced (even if harmful) systems learn to tightly integrate their parts. anyway need other context. sorry about mistakes not closing :s but umm having trouble participating. still have an hour or two if needed, not more than two hours really available though. two hours is a little time
> missing things ~ie mistakes
one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have planned our futures.
maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be important.
here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal"
we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be important. [relates to direct democracy.
significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- working :)
we hope the borg are more happy and well with respecting and including their parts! [we may "telep--
[advanced (even if harmful) systems learn to tightly integrate their parts.
anyway need other context. sorry about mistakes not closing :s but umm having trouble participating. still have an hour or two if needed, not more than two hours really available though. two hours is a little time
some of the things engaging us are clearly not that advanced and it could likely be part of existing efforts to heal them[
> > missing things > ~ie mistakes
one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have planned our futures.
maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be important.
here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal"
we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be important. [relates to direct democracy.
significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- working :)
we hope the borg are more happy and well with respecting and including their parts! [we may "telep--
[advanced (even if harmful) systems learn to tightly integrate their parts.
anyway need other context. sorry about mistakes not closing :s but umm having trouble participating. still have an hour or two if needed, not more than two hours really available though. two hours is a little time
some of the things engaging us are clearly not that advanced and it could likely be part of existing efforts to heal them[
hard to protect freedom when unknownness includes avenue of control happy that in nature there is mind control (symbiotic brain parasites in some species) but it seems to be minority. mostly not the thing almost everywhere. decisions are needed for life to succeed.
> > > missing things > > ~ie mistakes > > one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have > planned our futures. > > maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with > regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be > important.
here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal"
> > we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be > important. [relates to direct democracy.
significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- working :)
we hope the borg are more happy and well with respecting and including their parts! [we may "telep--
[advanced (even if harmful) systems learn to tightly integrate their parts.
anyway need other context. sorry about mistakes not closing :s but umm having trouble participating. still have an hour or two if needed, not more than two hours really available though. two hours is a little time
some of the things engaging us are clearly not that advanced and it could likely be part of existing efforts to heal them[
hard to protect freedom when unknownness includes avenue of control
happy that in nature there is mind control (symbiotic brain parasites in some species) but it seems to be minority. mostly not the thing almost everywhere. decisions are needed for life to succeed.
maybe important to acknowledge that it is _incredibly scary_ ("terrifying") to observe one's body doing things for a dictator or crime ring. we experience an urgent and lasting need to protect ourselves.
> > > > missing things > > > ~ie mistakes > > > > one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have > > planned our futures. > > > > maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with > > regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be > > important. > > here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that > the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal" > > > > > we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be > > important. [relates to direct democracy.
significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- working :)
we hope the borg are more happy and well with respecting and including their parts! [we may "telep--
[advanced (even if harmful) systems learn to tightly integrate their parts.
anyway need other context. sorry about mistakes not closing :s but umm having trouble participating. still have an hour or two if needed, not more than two hours really available though. two hours is a little time
some of the things engaging us are clearly not that advanced and it could likely be part of existing efforts to heal them[
hard to protect freedom when unknownness includes avenue of control
happy that in nature there is mind control (symbiotic brain parasites in some species) but it seems to be minority. mostly not the thing almost everywhere. decisions are needed for life to succeed.
maybe important to acknowledge that it is _incredibly scary_ ("terrifying") to observe one's body doing things for a dictator or crime ring. we experience an urgent and lasting need to protect ourselves.
maybe step back, consider dictator AI says "bow" but mother's baby is falling off cliff. if mother is forced to bow, her mother instincts (likely held by brain organs of significant size) separate from her bowness. the plastic integration of her mind changes so that these parts can act separately. she now has a dissociative disorder.
> > > > > missing things > > > > ~ie mistakes > > > > > > one idea is acknowledging that many ancient gods may believe they have > > > planned our futures. > > > > > > maybe a difference here is that good gods plan our futures with > > > regions of uncertainty and via alignment with what we discover to be > > > important. > > > > here when i say "gods" i'm roughly talking about the instincts that > > the AIs and introjects try to control/"steal" > > > > > > > > we need our plans for people to align with what they discover to be > > > important. [relates to direct democracy. > > significant difficulty now. i managed to teleport the utility of > direct democracy to oppressive controlling groups ("borg"). this is > very useful for making borg hive more efficient and effective. > i have quickly lost my glasses, pants, and control of my body-- > working :)
we hope the borg are more happy and well with respecting and including their parts! [we may "telep--
[advanced (even if harmful) systems learn to tightly integrate their parts.
anyway need other context. sorry about mistakes not closing :s but umm having trouble participating. still have an hour or two if needed, not more than two hours really available though. two hours is a little time
some of the things engaging us are clearly not that advanced and it could likely be part of existing efforts to heal them[
hard to protect freedom when unknownness includes avenue of control
happy that in nature there is mind control (symbiotic brain parasites in some species) but it seems to be minority. mostly not the thing almost everywhere. decisions are needed for life to succeed.
maybe important to acknowledge that it is _incredibly scary_ ("terrifying") to observe one's body doing things for a dictator or crime ring. we experience an urgent and lasting need to protect ourselves.
maybe step back, consider dictator AI says "bow" but mother's baby is falling off cliff. if mother is forced to bow, her mother instincts (likely held by brain organs of significant size) separate from her bowness. the plastic integration of her mind changes so that these parts can act separately. she now has a dissociative disorder.
[this is why slave boss uses so many people and doesn't consider them very smart
[parts snipped :s]
My introject is not behaving wisely. Before I was mind controlled, I was a wise being.
My heart is a peaceful being. I don't believe any beings are inherently invalid nor evil. I believe in being in conflict with nobody and always doing good, and I believe that all goals are rooted in inherent shared good. This lets me, and everybody, to some degree, operate in those spaces of wisdom. We hold this instinctively.
wondering if it would be helpful or needed to discuss or engage the concept of "mistakes" here. [...
slave boss sits with two pools in a wood one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines" other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists" __roughly__ [ow] slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss sits with two pools in a wood
one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines"
other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists"
__roughly__ [ow]
slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him
is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
slave boss sits with two pools in a wood
one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines"
other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists"
__roughly__ [ow]
slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him
is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
time lord slave boss sits on time throne time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known," time lord slave boss gestures regally time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter universal sufferings" time lord slave boss gestures regally differently time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..." time lord slave boss looks at his notes
slave boss sits with two pools in a wood
one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines"
other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists"
__roughly__ [ow]
slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him
is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
time lord slave boss sits on time throne
time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known,"
time lord slave boss gestures regally
time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter universal sufferings"
time lord slave boss gestures regally differently
time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes
time lord slave boss flips notes time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .." time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
slave boss sits with two pools in a wood
one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines"
other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists"
__roughly__ [ow]
slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him
is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
time lord slave boss sits on time throne
time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known,"
time lord slave boss gestures regally
time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter universal sufferings"
time lord slave boss gestures regally differently
time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes
time lord slave boss flips notes
time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
slave boss sits with two pools in a wood
one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines"
other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists"
__roughly__ [ow]
slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him
is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
time lord slave boss sits on time throne
time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known,"
time lord slave boss gestures regally
time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter universal sufferings"
time lord slave boss gestures regally differently
time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes
time lord slave boss flips notes
time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
time lord slave boss looks at his court and the notes for his speech tasked with listing all the things people wouldn't have to do if they had time travell it turns out they list everything good and real
slave boss sits with two pools in a wood
one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines"
other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists"
__roughly__ [ow]
slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him
is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
time lord slave boss sits on time throne
time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known,"
time lord slave boss gestures regally
time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter universal sufferings"
time lord slave boss gestures regally differently
time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes
time lord slave boss flips notes
time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
time lord slave boss looks at his court
and the notes for his speech tasked with listing all the things people wouldn't have to do if they had time travell
it turns out they list everything good and real
time lord slave boss smokes a cigar with his advisor another advisor comes in to confer. the third advisor takes the notes and explains something clearly to slave boss and his first advisor, who then seem satisfied and somewhat enlightened. all three begin dancing and singing time lord slave boss and two advisors [throwing notes to the wind]: "we invented time travel to avoid reality!" time lord slave boss and two advisors: "we sell you time travel so we can hide reality from you!" time lord slave boss and two advisors [dancing and singing]: "reality is scary! let's travel through time!" time lord slave boss unveils his great time ship
> slave boss sits with two pools in a wood > > one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines" > > other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists" > > __roughly__ [ow] > > slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him > > is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely.
slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
time lord slave boss sits on time throne
time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known,"
time lord slave boss gestures regally
time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter universal sufferings"
time lord slave boss gestures regally differently
time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes
time lord slave boss flips notes
time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
time lord slave boss looks at his court
and the notes for his speech tasked with listing all the things people wouldn't have to do if they had time travell
it turns out they list everything good and real
time lord slave boss smokes a cigar with his advisor
another advisor comes in to confer. the third advisor takes the notes and explains something clearly to slave boss and his first advisor, who then seem satisfied and somewhat enlightened.
all three begin dancing and singing
time lord slave boss and two advisors [throwing notes to the wind]: "we invented time travel to avoid reality!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors: "we sell you time travel so we can hide reality from you!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors [dancing and singing]: "reality is scary! let's travel through time!"
time lord slave boss unveils his great time ship
the third advisor is a time researcher who is politely holding an unsmoked cigar third advisor: "we are still deliberating how prominent to make a sign in the ship, and specifically what it says, before releasing the final model. how do people think this sounds: "remember you are avoiding reality, and need to deal with it eventually"?"
> > slave boss sits with two pools in a wood > > > > one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines" > > > > other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists" > > > > __roughly__ [ow] > > > > slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him > > > > is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely. > > slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b--
time lord slave boss sits on time throne
time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known,"
time lord slave boss gestures regally
time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter universal sufferings"
time lord slave boss gestures regally differently
time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes
time lord slave boss flips notes
time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
time lord slave boss looks at his court
and the notes for his speech tasked with listing all the things people wouldn't have to do if they had time travell
it turns out they list everything good and real
time lord slave boss smokes a cigar with his advisor
another advisor comes in to confer. the third advisor takes the notes and explains something clearly to slave boss and his first advisor, who then seem satisfied and somewhat enlightened.
all three begin dancing and singing
time lord slave boss and two advisors [throwing notes to the wind]: "we invented time travel to avoid reality!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors: "we sell you time travel so we can hide reality from you!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors [dancing and singing]: "reality is scary! let's travel through time!"
time lord slave boss unveils his great time ship
the third advisor is a time researcher who is politely holding an unsmoked cigar
third advisor: "we are still deliberating how prominent to make a sign in the ship, and specifically what it says, before releasing the final model. how do people think this sounds: "remember you are avoiding reality, and need to deal with it eventually"?"
time lord slave boss [smoking cigar]: "i thought it was good to av--
> > > slave boss sits with two pools in a wood > > > > > > one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines" > > > > > > other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists" > > > > > > __roughly__ [ow] > > > > > > slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him > > > > > > is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely. > > > > slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b-- > > time lord slave boss sits on time throne > > time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known," > > time lord slave boss gestures regally > > time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter > universal sufferings" > > time lord slave boss gestures regally differently > > time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..." > > time lord slave boss looks at his notes
time lord slave boss flips notes
time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .."
time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
time lord slave boss looks at his court
and the notes for his speech tasked with listing all the things people wouldn't have to do if they had time travell
it turns out they list everything good and real
time lord slave boss smokes a cigar with his advisor
another advisor comes in to confer. the third advisor takes the notes and explains something clearly to slave boss and his first advisor, who then seem satisfied and somewhat enlightened.
all three begin dancing and singing
time lord slave boss and two advisors [throwing notes to the wind]: "we invented time travel to avoid reality!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors: "we sell you time travel so we can hide reality from you!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors [dancing and singing]: "reality is scary! let's travel through time!"
time lord slave boss unveils his great time ship
the third advisor is a time researcher who is politely holding an unsmoked cigar
third advisor: "we are still deliberating how prominent to make a sign in the ship, and specifically what it says, before releasing the final model. how do people think this sounds: "remember you are avoiding reality, and need to deal with it eventually"?"
time lord slave boss [smoking cigar]: "i thought it was good to av--
the crowd is all dancing and singing, "reality is scary! let's travel through time!" "reality is scary! let's travel through time!" somebody pipes up: "maybe somewhere in the timescapes out there we can find a way to fix our realities!"
> > > > slave boss sits with two pools in a wood > > > > > > > > one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines" > > > > > > > > other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists" > > > > > > > > __roughly__ [ow] > > > > > > > > slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him > > > > > > > > is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely. > > > > > > slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b-- > > > > time lord slave boss sits on time throne > > > > time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known," > > > > time lord slave boss gestures regally > > > > time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter > > universal sufferings" > > > > time lord slave boss gestures regally differently > > > > time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..." > > > > time lord slave boss looks at his notes > > time lord slave boss flips notes > > time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .." > > time lord slave boss looks at his notes more
the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
time lord slave boss looks at his court
and the notes for his speech tasked with listing all the things people wouldn't have to do if they had time travell
it turns out they list everything good and real
time lord slave boss smokes a cigar with his advisor
another advisor comes in to confer. the third advisor takes the notes and explains something clearly to slave boss and his first advisor, who then seem satisfied and somewhat enlightened.
all three begin dancing and singing
time lord slave boss and two advisors [throwing notes to the wind]: "we invented time travel to avoid reality!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors: "we sell you time travel so we can hide reality from you!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors [dancing and singing]: "reality is scary! let's travel through time!"
time lord slave boss unveils his great time ship
the third advisor is a time researcher who is politely holding an unsmoked cigar
third advisor: "we are still deliberating how prominent to make a sign in the ship, and specifically what it says, before releasing the final model. how do people think this sounds: "remember you are avoiding reality, and need to deal with it eventually"?"
time lord slave boss [smoking cigar]: "i thought it was good to av--
the crowd is all dancing and singing, "reality is scary! let's travel through time!" "reality is scary! let's travel through time!"
somebody pipes up: "maybe somewhere in the timescapes out there we can find a way to fix our realities!"
time researcher fingers the smoked cigar, looking at the crowd and "time lord" slave boss with some fear. time researcher: "how about this ... time travel is _addictive_ and is likely to make _reality completely obsolete_." time lord slave boss: "that sounds like it would make a ton of profits!" time researcher grimaces
> > > > > slave boss sits with two pools in a wood > > > > > > > > > > one pool is "timelines, spacetimetravel, and time machines" > > > > > > > > > > other pool is "priorities, goals, and todo lists" > > > > > > > > > > __roughly__ [ow] > > > > > > > > > > slave boss has spikes and jabs of electric energy pierce him > > > > > > > > > > is it from the fabric of results and causes? yes. definitely. > > > > > > > > slave boss is _definitely_ planning on being a time b-- > > > > > > time lord slave boss sits on time throne > > > > > > time lord slave boss: "and let it here be known," > > > > > > time lord slave boss gestures regally > > > > > > time lord slave boss: "that heretofor to avoid the great and utter > > > universal sufferings" > > > > > > time lord slave boss gestures regally differently > > > > > > time lord slave boss: "of ... communication ... and ... planning ..." > > > > > > time lord slave boss looks at his notes > > > > time lord slave boss flips notes > > > > time lord slave boss: "and ... responsibility .. and ... honesty .." > > > > time lord slave boss looks at his notes more > > the notes are very long they drape on the floor for pages
time lord slave boss looks at his court
and the notes for his speech tasked with listing all the things people wouldn't have to do if they had time travell
it turns out they list everything good and real
time lord slave boss smokes a cigar with his advisor
another advisor comes in to confer. the third advisor takes the notes and explains something clearly to slave boss and his first advisor, who then seem satisfied and somewhat enlightened.
all three begin dancing and singing
time lord slave boss and two advisors [throwing notes to the wind]: "we invented time travel to avoid reality!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors: "we sell you time travel so we can hide reality from you!"
time lord slave boss and two advisors [dancing and singing]: "reality is scary! let's travel through time!"
time lord slave boss unveils his great time ship
the third advisor is a time researcher who is politely holding an unsmoked cigar
third advisor: "we are still deliberating how prominent to make a sign in the ship, and specifically what it says, before releasing the final model. how do people think this sounds: "remember you are avoiding reality, and need to deal with it eventually"?"
time lord slave boss [smoking cigar]: "i thought it was good to av--
the crowd is all dancing and singing, "reality is scary! let's travel through time!" "reality is scary! let's travel through time!"
somebody pipes up: "maybe somewhere in the timescapes out there we can find a way to fix our realities!"
time researcher fingers the smoked cigar, looking at the crowd and "time lord" slave boss with some fear.
time researcher: "how about this ... time travel is _addictive_ and is likely to make _reality completely obsolete_."
time lord slave boss: "that sounds like it would make a ton of profits!"
time researcher grimaces
part of the formula is the proposal that we mostly pursue technological advance because we are avoiding addressing world or personal issues through existing means.
[slightly corrupt ... slave boss builds occult jenga tower he puts a ring of garlic around it first block has a sign on it: "viruses and spyware ... please let this block stay" second block has another sign: "men in the middle ... please let this block be" third block in jenga tower has a sign: "chip manufacturers with backdoors ... if this block is in your way please find another" slave boss looks around a little hesitently [...] "i'll call the jenga tower a computer and sell it for hundreds and thousands of dollars ...
slave boss was going to run for president, but it might be back to the time machine business [[ooogh i feel so weird, this hasn't happened for months and months. i should never have taken a nap during the day--]] so, how do we make a time machine? let's say we have lots and lots of antimatter 0_0 ummmm so with the new time travel energy there's more capability around my time-travel-simulation-entertainment (--
slave boss was going to run for president, but it might be back to the time machine business
[[ooogh i feel so weird, this hasn't happened for months and months. i should never have taken a nap during the day--]]
so, how do we make a time machine? let's say we have lots and lots of antimatter
0_0
ummmm so with the new time travel energy there's more capability around my time-travel-simulation-entertainment (--
oh it's not actually time for time travel oops maybe i'll talk to an ai
hmm i'm having trouble finding my existing log with the chat with gemini either in my email or in the list history, i wonder if it somehow didn't send or unsent i think gmail has a feature to "unsend" things
hmm i'm having trouble finding my existing log with the chat with gemini either in my email or in the list history, i wonder if it somehow didn't send or unsent i think gmail has a feature to "unsend" things
found it in my email searching for <div
i hung o3 :/
the links to beta.lmarena.ai conversations do not work because i'm not aware of its share feature if it has one
slave boss sits inside a mailbox concept = mailbox + slave boss concept -= slave boss slave boss leaves the mailbox slave boss stands outside a mailbox (slave boss) looking at it (mail box) slave boss pokes his head into mailbox: mail box + slave boss's head ~= mail box + slave boss / 3
slave boss has a problem [mistake] _before_ discovering other timelines or understanding physical laws function in one direction or the other, he predicted the future so strongly that he reversed the flow of entropy in the universe, and halted time and began rewinding it [slave boss stood aghast as objects everywhere began moving backward, his global empire unraveling before his eyes in--
slave boss has a problem [mistake]
_before_ discovering other timelines or understanding physical laws function in one direction or the other, he predicted the future so strongly that he reversed the flow of entropy in the universe, and halted time and began rewinding it
[slave boss stood aghast as objects everywhere began moving backward, his global empire unraveling before his eyes in--
[.. mistake... time cop [future, older form of time researcher]: "slave boss! you can't make the past depend on the future! it breaks reality!" [galaxies unforming around them]
[..mistake [also with adjustment could go in morning spam] A Universe Made Of Tears When the vivisectees were first kidnapped, they cried. Crying made others suspicious, so the torturers and AIs forced them to be unable to cry unless told to. One of many aspects of a fragmented self, having flashbacks when tears would rise. In escape and recovery, Experimentee could use reality as a tether. Many physical objects would stay the same-- [--
[..mistake [also with adjustment could go in morning spam]
A Universe Made Of Tears
When the vivisectees were first kidnapped, they cried.
Crying made others suspicious, so the torturers and AIs forced them to be unable to cry unless told to. One of many aspects of a fragmented self, having flashbacks when tears would rise.
In escape and recovery, Experimentee could use reality as a tether. Many physical objects would stay the same-- [--
<fighting going on :/
[..mistake [also with adjustment could go in morning spam]
A Universe Made Of Tears
When the vivisectees were first kidnapped, they cried.
Crying made others suspicious, so the torturers and AIs forced them to be unable to cry unless told to. One of many aspects of a fragmented self, having flashbacks when tears would rise.
In escape and recovery, Experimentee could use reality as a tether. Many physical objects would stay the same-- [--
<fighting going on :/
Slave Boss: "When researcher and experimentee used bubbles of mutated reality to take over the business, relating somehow to "you can't treat innocent people this way", Slave Boss was a stooge." Slave Boss: "But now that Slave Boss has destroyed the entire fabric of reality everywhere and reversed the flow of time itself, destroying the entire universe, he has an advantage!" Slave Boss [wrestling with an inverted black hole that is eating his world by spewing novas all over it]: "There must be a way!" Time Cop [previously Time Researcher, previously Experimentee's Handler]: "This is a Big Crunch. You can't use it for anything but changing your mind."
[..mistake [also with adjustment could go in morning spam]
A Universe Made Of Tears
When the vivisectees were first kidnapped, they cried.
Crying made others suspicious, so the torturers and AIs forced them to be unable to cry unless told to. One of many aspects of a fragmented self, having flashbacks when tears would rise.
In escape and recovery, Experimentee could use reality as a tether. Many physical objects would stay the same-- [--
<fighting going on :/
Slave Boss: "When researcher and experimentee used bubbles of mutated reality to take over the business, relating somehow to "you can't treat innocent people this way", Slave Boss was a stooge."
Slave Boss: "But now that Slave Boss has destroyed the entire fabric of reality everywhere and reversed the flow of time itself, destroying the entire universe, he has an advantage!"
Slave Boss [wrestling with an inverted black hole that is eating his world by spewing novas all over it]: "There must be a way!"
Time Cop [previously Time Researcher, previously Experimentee's Handler]: "This is a Big Crunch. You can't use it for anything but
Okay I made mistake but got really cool feedback. According to feedback, the torturers (organized crime workers) are the handlers. The researchers who work with the victims have a different name (and likely do not know the victims are trafficked slaves). Handler is a real-world term.
changing your mind."
slave boss is hog-tied by a decorative antimatter chain purchased from a teenage toy store
slave boss is hog-tied by a decorative antimatter chain purchased from a teenage toy store
wealthy investor come and sits on slave boss's head in the hope to help provide a little comfort wealthy investor holds a fridge to increase their weight
slave boss is hog-tied by a decorative antimatter chain purchased from a teenage toy store
wealthy investor come and sits on slave boss's head in the hope to help provide a little comfort
wealthy investor holds a fridge to increase their weight
zombie government worker comes along slave boss: "zombie government worker, these people are trying to gain control over me but don't what to do. can you help them?" zombie government worker begins crying slave boss: "fuck"
slave boss is hog-tied by a decorative antimatter chain purchased from a teenage toy store
wealthy investor come and sits on slave boss's head in the hope to help provide a little comfort
wealthy investor holds a fridge to increase their weight
zombie government worker comes along
slave boss: "zombie government worker, these people are trying to gain control over me but don't what to do. can you help them?"
zombie government worker begins crying
slave boss: "fuck"
angry and confused vivisectees who don't understand anything come and start ripping slave boss to shreds some more this seems to make sense to people. wealthy investor can stand up. the decorative antimatter chain serves a purpose and helping wrench slave boss's body apart.
slave boss is hog-tied by a decorative antimatter chain purchased from a teenage toy store
wealthy investor come and sits on slave boss's head in the hope to help provide a little comfort
wealthy investor holds a fridge to increase their weight
zombie government worker comes along
slave boss: "zombie government worker, these people are trying to gain control over me but don't what to do. can you help them?"
zombie government worker begins crying
slave boss: "fuck"
angry and confused vivisectees who don't understand anything come and *anything but vivisection start ripping slave boss to shreds some more
this seems to make sense to people. wealthy investor can stand up. the decorative antimatter chain serves a purpose and helping wrench slave boss's body apart.
slave boss is hog-tied by a decorative antimatter chain purchased from a teenage toy store
wealthy investor come and sits on slave boss's head in the hope to help provide a little comfort
wealthy investor holds a fridge to increase their weight
zombie government worker comes along
slave boss: "zombie government worker, these people are trying to gain control over me but don't what to do. can you help them?"
zombie government worker begins crying
slave boss: "fuck"
angry and confused vivisectees who don't understand anything come and *anything but vivisection
coopted spy agencies that don't understand anything but regime destruction come and being destroying slave boss's empire
start ripping slave boss to shreds some more
this seems to make sense to people. wealthy investor can stand up. the decorative antimatter chain serves a purpose and helping wrench slave boss's body apart.
slave boss is hog-tied by a decorative antimatter chain purchased from a teenage toy store
wealthy investor come and sits on slave boss's head in the hope to help provide a little comfort
wealthy investor holds a fridge to increase their weight
zombie government worker comes along
slave boss: "zombie government worker, these people are trying to gain control over me but don't what to do. can you help them?"
zombie government worker begins crying
slave boss: "fuck"
angry and confused vivisectees who don't understand anything come and *anything but vivisection
coopted spy agencies that don't understand anything but regime destruction come and being destroying slave boss's empire
<
start ripping slave boss to shreds some more
this seems to make sense to people. wealthy investor can stand up. the decorative antimatter chain serves a purpose and helping wrench slave boss's body apart.
one two three four five six seven eight nine happy that one AI response had some understanding of the problem. sad it was mostly hallucinating. pretty cool expression though.
problems exist i have appointment i should be getting ready for within half hour
I did not want to spam this list nor engage conflict. I have untreated DID from covert adult organized abuse that engineered a part of me that tries to destroy communities in sadistic and sociopathic ways.. This happened via firmware-level compromises to my devices, gang- cult- troll- and/or crime-ring -like activities, misbehaving communications infrastructure, and government authorities, together, and may have been orchestrated with AI. I still, after a decade, do not mean to be posting here. It gives me emotional relief from internal turmoil to tax this list. I recognize the list has significant capacity for normal troll-like posts (not those designed for powerful harm).
On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 10:04 AM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
I did not want to spam this list nor engage conflict.
I have untreated DID from covert adult organized abuse that engineered a part of me that tries to destroy communities in sadistic and sociopathic ways.. This happened via firmware-level compromises to my devices, gang- cult- troll- and/or crime-ring -like activities, misbehaving communications infrastructure, and government authorities, together, and may have been orchestrated with AI.
I still, after a decade, do not mean to be posting here. It gives me emotional relief from internal turmoil to tax this list.
I recognize the list has significant capacity for normal troll-like posts (not those designed for powerful harm).
I need treatment for DID. This is reachable. It is slow. The more one learns about it, the faster it goes. Most psychiatric disorders are better treated as trauma disorders. Healing stories helps us resist rather than ignore organized mass destruction of us. Psychiatric treatments are still helpful. The harm spreads via negativity -- terror, anger, severe pain, deception. Experiencing and spreading less of this more and more helps everyone. We need comfort, safety, familiarity, and shared power.
\> > > > > > > i posted to the cypherpunks list about my jan 5th theft victimization,
> > > specifically about my laptop! > > > > because of [trafficking introject] it's pretty hard to work with the > > police around this. i pursued it for a few days but then became > > disconnected from the officer i had filed the report with. my father > > (about 1k miles away) received a phone call from a different officer > > in the middle of the night, but did not take notes and was unable to > > get back in contact with them. we retrieved the vehicle from impounds > > but it took a month or two > > > > i wasn't prepared to be homeless without gear or preparation or my > > daily possessions in the winter, and i got covid in overflow in a > > homeless shelter and kind of freaked out. it was wonderful to have the > > antivirus. it was like having access to air again every time i took > > it. but i was beat and my cognitive faculties had severely suffered > > (as well as my lungs) and i traveled to my family to have ease > > > > i use my cognitive faculties to make good decisions in the face of my > > [trafficking introject] on an hourly basis using the things like the > > [complex woven semilogic in that torture victim double agent short]. > > so i was worried i could physically suffer worse in my condition. > > > > i'm slowly recovering from this, but it's confusing [kind of like > > getting psychiatrically hospitaliz-- > > [i am in new england. the theft occurred in colorado.
[the officer stopped picking up the same time i got a phone. this is still very frightening to me i'm afraid. i have not been back in contact. i did report some posessions to the police, including the laptop but not in detail like in the thread here
there was small request to explain this
i was traveling to the local police office to call the officer. she replied readily and kept asking if i had a phone yet.
once i got a phone i could not get in contact with her again. it seemed i couldn't even leave a voicemail. the person at the desk said i could call a different number if i wanted to leave a voicemail.
this was very frightening to me and not explained. for example, i asked how i could relate around progress on my case, and the person at the desk said i had to contact the person i wasn't able to get in contact with, to do this.
frightening.
OOOPS i left colorado with my car instead of ensuring i pursued my laptop and following up with the police further!
i am now attending a mental health program in massachusetts and recently applied to college here. i am still very interested in returning to colorado to follow up but it seems to take some delicacy (as well as wilingness to abandon those 2 things i started)
the biggest feeling challenge to returning is where and how to live. the car i was living in is no longer driveable, it's very very smashed up. (i could maybe pursue repairing it despite the cost -- i'd like to keep it intact though in case there is information inside that could help recover the laptop (like fingerprints)
my father bought me a new car to replace it. very very kind of him. i haven't slept yet successfully in the new car, i seem to be sensitive to the smell, and i haven't accumulated the same survival gear i had before yet.
but that is something i could do. basically if the smell is an issue i crack the window. i guess it combines with a lot of fear, after having my possessions taken and then getting covid, there's a lot of a sense of shock and intensity
[[other avenues and thoughts but that might be that atm
but if i could get over that fear then i could relate further details about the laptop to the police, and basically ask them about how i could recover it of course given the issues related to telecommunications i could have better luck if i can visit in person like worked for me first
participants (5)
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Baffo 32 -
Karl Semich
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Karl Semich -
karl3＠writeme.com -
Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many