Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))
forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list: The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement. The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was before... Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must be much much *BROADER*. .
On 09/05/2016 09:15 AM, Александр wrote:
forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER".
*And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was before...
Was it ever, really? Tim May, from what I know of him, doesn't seem to be the type. Too much wood to chop up dere in Corralitos. Clears them mind of all that 'theory' stuff. Rr
Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must be much much *BROADER*. .
On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 07:15:49PM +0300, Александр wrote:
forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
lol.
The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
lol. This doesn't make any sense to me. Go to the new lists, especially the one juan advertised at alleged local time 03 AM. And learn how to unsubscribe from here.
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 19:55:53 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski@guninski.com> wrote:
lol. This doesn't make any sense to me. Go to the new lists, especially the one juan advertised
I didn't advertise any new list, stupid piece of shit. I indirectly told you to get lost. I'll do it again, but more plainly : Go to the "cryptography" mailing list and leave this one alone.
at alleged local time 03 AM.
the fuck has that got to do with anything
And learn how to unsubscribe from here.
You need to learn to do that. Also, how far does your 'knowledge' of nerdy bullshit apart from transferring copypasta from the register?
On Sep 5, 2016 1:03 AM, "Александр" <afalex169@gmail.com> wrote:
2016-09-05 0:21 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net>:
CCing Juan and Alex now - what do you guys think?
I already told you a year ago, brother, that i am FOR this idea. In my opinion, it must be done, because the tension from the
crypto-freaks and golden caged morrons is all the time "there", as asoon as we start a serious conversation.
I/you/... we want to publish AND comment without being attacked on a regular basis about the "offtopic" arguments.
On Sep 5, 2016 1:17 PM, "Александр" <afalex169@gmail.com> wrote:
The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only
thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement. ===== Alexander, sorry, I can't see any problem in create another list, where you, Zenaan and maybe other fellows can feel more comfortable when discussing the "future Third World War". It won't "kill" or damage this list at all. The cypherpunks list will follow its way, as always did. People arrive and go everyday, in every place. And nobody is expulsing none of you. You all can make part of this list too, but would be two different lists, with distinct focus.
Agreed. On September 5, 2016 11:15:49 AM CDT, "Александр" <afalex169@gmail.com> wrote:
forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was before...
Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must be much much *BROADER*. .
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was before...
Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must be much much *BROADER*.
Well that's odd. I wonder what it's about? Splitting the list into what? Two with different themes? One Moderated and one Unmoderated? If the latter, that's a perilous course. One sees a lot of "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally overrun with tards. Because once upon a time, half or more of the people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed. When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done. Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or harmless and productive, depending the situation. As someone already pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for. People have been talking about the CPunks list charter. I have not seen it. What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown delegate to us, for what tribute in return? Just curious. Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to the "public" conversation. Ⓐ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJX0hLOAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqncIIAK/xdnoMhFQhJr1F8PBo4VoK rf/JS934fDG8dH2gGqucoHcf2Cu2bo8TKYZLspCSY1chj7ygCk8LKkgzkBXy3M1Y d9+zq6cHpCzdfPYi7VdJNz5DL+kpczR8Yo6Qvc+K7jrRrL3fh9wimy1Iy/ho+oKl +jdAUcqWEFrKmWfIoG6ineIwOzan+7lB+T/4TQdi6Y2m3+qoUXSC5/TNiTqz41k5 czpo4xEoXCeThocM5e66ZklCT4L82kO9mQ56LmFTTK7ego2wi4dGfxlIFuA66/4J 2CDKCNLtNuPC/JmJOK+/egUSxOFwDmZOB2OQfy6c2UfGBWrJ5DiX8efZICSRtOw= =V0dY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was before...
Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must be much much *BROADER*.
Well that's odd. I wonder what it's about? Splitting the list into what? Two with different themes? One Moderated and one Unmoderated?
There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is just plainly off-topic.
If the latter, that's a perilous course. One sees a lot of "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally overrun with tards. Because once upon a time, half or more of the people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed.
There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave. That's just how unmoderated lists work.
When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done. Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or harmless and productive, depending the situation. As someone already pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.
People have been talking about the CPunks list charter. I have not seen it. What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown delegate to us, for what tribute in return? Just curious.
Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to the "public" conversation.
Ⓐ
On 09/08/2016 07:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:
There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is just plainly off-topic.
I TRY to keep my political postings to, at least the Internet or computing's connection to politics, state, society It's not ez. Rr
On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was before...
Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must be much much *BROADER*.
Well that's odd. I wonder what it's about? Splitting the list into what? Two with different themes? One Moderated and one Unmoderated?
There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is just plainly off-topic.
If the latter, that's a perilous course. One sees a lot of "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally overrun with tards. Because once upon a time, half or more of the people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed.
There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave. That's just how unmoderated lists work.
When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done. Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or harmless and productive, depending the situation. As someone already pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.
People have been talking about the CPunks list charter. I have not seen it. What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown delegate to us, for what tribute in return? Just curious.
Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to the "public" conversation.
Ⓐ
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/08/2016 10:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:
On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
Well that's odd. I wonder what it's about? Splitting the list into what? Two with different themes? One Moderated and one Unmoderated?
There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is just plainly off-topic.
Sounds right to me. - From my own posting history it's clear that I don't mind pushing content that addresses the methods of practical politics, and some of the theory behind same. The connection of this to crypto etc. is that it illustrates contexts in which crypto (and by extension pretty much all network security considerations) can be productively used to support political means and ends. Hence relevant to threat models, product designs, education and support activities for crypto-centric applications. So far I'm not getting flamed for that.
If the latter, that's a perilous course. One sees a lot of "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally overrun with tards. Because once upon a time, half or more of the people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed.
There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave. That's just how unmoderated lists work.
Also sounds right to me. Don't let's pretend we can't do it - some of the subscribers on this list are veterans of USENET. "Cypherpunks of the world unite - You have nothing to lose but your barbed wire!" ;o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJX0hu7AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqsXMH/2426cTwDfDa9EoI5ELN2juP iyaTx3fgPAwOj0OZoL3JL5roG3AMX3RuCdYxSx39snO90U3D42V7Zhtz5uvQV9ba Qu0stk3EeqP9u5NqauriLXWD1imYNrW2clwjV+OoSxsQlZHB1ZBwgb/teY6765Oo xHieE3zUBJ+3r/lVTfiTcSgHGItIi4ToP/xi//asw5Tmwg7rhykyoPAY5fHIcKUm mOj9E4nJM2A5vH45kVDnlaSpQC/fxlhKADa3KClXSvXkmxEys/ZBB58tmD4Td/7M 5/QhED2rAJ1rJFwZdC663M0wtwyH3t3LHhjDxrCeUyn2EOqX7fmDMQDDXlEZFe8= =p2J4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
some of the subscribers on this list are veterans
ask juan when he retires what type of benefits he gonna git fo bein troll all these years
"Cypherpunks of the world unite
juan try to destroy you and everything every time he post that troll lil bitch could not build legos even wit instructables
On 9/8/16 7:17 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 09/08/2016 10:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:
On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
Well that's odd. I wonder what it's about? Splitting the list into what? Two with different themes? One Moderated and one Unmoderated?
There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is just plainly off-topic.
Sounds right to me. +1
- From my own posting history it's clear that I don't mind pushing content that addresses the methods of practical politics, and some of the theory behind same. The connection of this to crypto etc. is that it illustrates contexts in which crypto (and by extension pretty much all network security considerations) can be productively used to support political means and ends. Hence relevant to threat models, product designs, education and support activities for crypto-centric applications.
So far I'm not getting flamed for that. +1
If the latter, that's a perilous course. One sees a lot of "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally overrun with tards. Because once upon a time, half or more of the people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed.
There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave. That's just how unmoderated lists work.
Also sounds right to me. Don't let's pretend we can't do it - some of the subscribers on this list are veterans of USENET.
Yes, for years, especially early on before the Web. I setup and ran uucp links for email too. I even engineered a satellite uplink/downlink over satellite channels normally used for fax transmission. LIG stands for "The Local Internet Gateway" company.
"Cypherpunks of the world unite - You have nothing to lose but your barbed wire!"
;o)
sdw
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greetings, Anarchists and Sworn Enemies Of Anarchism! Without a sovereign Authority to sign off on it, there can be no such thing as a CPunks List Charter. What it this, a corporation? CPunks has never even been as organized as a pirate vessel - no ship's articles, no process for selecting or removing captains, no disciplinary process, no profit sharing or worker's comp... HOWEVER, I do propose yet another definitive answer for the "topic" of the cypherpunks list: Information warfare in the public interest. Because in the local context, cypher- means mathematical munitions, and -punk means opposed to abuse of authority. Information warfare in the public interest provides a very broad canvas to work with, encompassing everything from tools and strategies for network security to exposure of State and Corporate covert surveillance and manipulation with an eye to practical mitigation. If you order today you also get a culture and heritage of hacking. Not the pop culture script kiddie version, but hacking in the original tehchnophiliac meaning of the word: Content with an emphasis on How Stuff Works and how to make stuff Work For You. But wait, there's more! All of this happens in a context of radical politics, so we can widen our subject matter to include hacking tips, tricks, tools and case histories for technologies like practical propaganda, activist organization, and resistance movements. A Magic Theater with only one price: Study that, do that, improve on that, and assist others to do likewise. When people acquire, use and share practical tools and techniques, they can enable Big Things to happen. When people promote and defend and repeat and elaborate and fight over and recycle and reiterate and regurgitate and clog up the tubes with the END PRODUCTS of their VERY OWN political agenda, grounded in Most Passionate Beliefs, we get an identity politics shouting match that proves nothing but our collective incompetence at waging information warfare in the public interest. Get good at being Bad. Know the right way to do wrong. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJX0hNxAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqpQQH/3Xoww0AqETR2KeqSYx8Om89 oMBQj71PzQnfDSSwjrhz6rEcWoRXaIZeBR8YRZ8Ha7lfJzD5dHR33zZP89q5FMCO 4d99cuTa7Zlko1Lyqno8wqLQCaf7YS7QQYvE/5+Iz2BTsZqv7ul7fHykck6F3qvZ GTge6uAyqYm6wxsvl+ManT3bKwNxT+/u0O7JZq1mNwkNvjYwdoMOVbxOq7DhU17h pz68d2ve+8W2IhaNFDY9nOxX/fZwTl1Wro54qFSt/4F3ON98j4M5NYj+JP47MSKw 0aQRVLkPZoEZEVMHrWJDu9Hyk2m91Td/votioopSdCQMYD6/OhF8kvcUS7cFb8Y= =Imnj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 09/08/2016 07:42 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
Greetings, Anarchists and Sworn Enemies Of Anarchism!
Without a sovereign Authority to sign off on it, there can be no such thing as a CPunks List Charter. What it this, a corporation? CPunks has never even been as organized as a pirate vessel - no ship's articles, no process for selecting or removing captains, no disciplinary process, no profit sharing or worker's comp...
HOWEVER, I do propose yet another definitive answer for the "topic" of the cypherpunks list:
Information warfare in the public interest.
Because in the local context, cypher- means mathematical munitions, and -punk means opposed to abuse of authority. Information warfare in the public interest provides a very broad canvas to work with, encompassing everything from tools and strategies for network security to exposure of State and Corporate covert surveillance and manipulation with an eye to practical mitigation.
Hey, it's always been that :)
If you order today you also get a culture and heritage of hacking. Not the pop culture script kiddie version, but hacking in the original tehchnophiliac meaning of the word: Content with an emphasis on How Stuff Works and how to make stuff Work For You. But wait, there's more! All of this happens in a context of radical politics, so we can widen our subject matter to include hacking tips, tricks, tools and case histories for technologies like practical propaganda, activist organization, and resistance movements. A Magic Theater with only one price: Study that, do that, improve on that, and assist others to do likewise.
Sounds good to me :)
When people acquire, use and share practical tools and techniques, they can enable Big Things to happen. When people promote and defend and repeat and elaborate and fight over and recycle and reiterate and regurgitate and clog up the tubes with the END PRODUCTS of their VERY OWN political agenda, grounded in Most Passionate Beliefs, we get an identity politics shouting match that proves nothing but our collective incompetence at waging information warfare in the public interest.
I do think that we ought to implement some form of AP. But proof against gaming by the wealthy. Maybe not limited to predicting death. Or maybe just demonstrations, to get the implementation working.
Get good at being Bad. Know the right way to do wrong.
You mean "wrong", right?
:o)
On 09/09/2016 11:02 AM, Cypher Piggie wrote:
Bro, you keep sayin' that ;) Got a BTC address or something?
rickroll mah shit large nigga 121Aspd9j8a6t5G3mCvPS3e5H1p3w6PKj2
Bro, there's nothing there :( I meant an address with at least 100 EUR in it :) Better yet, a suitable escrow account. Are there escrow services that use death or pwnage as confirmation?
Greetings, Anarchists and Sworn Enemies Of Anarchism!
Nice msg. Because of your interest in the topic, you may also like http://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Business_Plan There cypherpunks can find a home. Ma
participants (11)
-
Cecilia Tanaka -
Cypher Piggie -
Georgi Guninski -
juan -
Me -
Mirimir -
Razer -
Stephen D. Williams -
Steve Kinney -
Xer0Dynamite -
Александр