On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 06:23:12AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:

https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-August/042032.html Fri Aug 19 11:34:54 UTC 2016 thread Shutting down my tor relay Stephan Seitz

Did Tor decide to piss off and disconnect the honest relay operators (or as much of them as possible) while keeping the luser cattle? AFAIK the onion anonymity highly depends on the honesty of the relays in the "circuit" (or whatever they call it, never mind). This way all relays will be spooks', while now only most of them are.

On 08/20/2016 08:54 AM, Razer wrote:

On 08/20/2016 04:02 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

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On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 06:23:12AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:

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https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-August/042032.html Fri Aug 19 11:34:54 UTC 2016 thread Shutting down my tor relay Stephan Seitz

Did Tor decide to piss off and disconnect the honest relay operators (or as much of them as possible) while keeping the luser cattle?

AFAIK the onion anonymity highly depends on the honesty of the relays in the "circuit" (or whatever they call it, never mind).

This way all relays will be spooks', while now only most of them are.

Kind of what it looks like. I was busi]y watching the 'culture clash' between 'the suits', and what I affectionately call the 'bone in the nose and earlobe hole' crowd. That's part of the process. Ejecting or forcing out the alts and 'outlaws'.

So you think that Andrea will eventually get lynched?

On 08/20/2016 07:27 PM, Razer wrote:

On 08/20/2016 03:09 PM, Mirimir wrote:

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On 08/20/2016 08:54 AM, Razer wrote:

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On 08/20/2016 04:02 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

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On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 06:23:12AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:

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https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-August/042032.html Fri Aug 19 11:34:54 UTC 2016 thread Shutting down my tor relay Stephan Seitz

Did Tor decide to piss off and disconnect the honest relay operators (or as much of them as possible) while keeping the luser cattle?

AFAIK the onion anonymity highly depends on the honesty of the relays in the "circuit" (or whatever they call it, never mind).

This way all relays will be spooks', while now only most of them are.

Kind of what it looks like. I was busi]y watching the 'culture clash' between 'the suits', and what I affectionately call the 'bone in the nose and earlobe hole' crowd. That's part of the process. Ejecting or forcing out the alts and 'outlaws'.

So you think that Andrea will eventually get lynched?

I don't know any of the players in this Sadomasochistic organizational implosion (I'm not a torproject sock puppet as Juan's deluded rants state). I've just seen this clash of cultures and the backbiting and (as we can see) literal slander before somewhere.

My point is that you haven't characterized the players accurately.

For some reason it seems particularly well-planned out when one culture is the government, and money, and the other culture's ethics 'revolt'(snigger) at those things being primary.

It's not that simple. I'd say that there are at least five cultures: 1) spooks; 2) suits; 3) SJWs; 4) classic geeks; 5) SJW geeks. It's a cluster-fuck.

On 08/20/2016 09:11 PM, juan wrote:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:42:07 -0600 Mirimir wrote:

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It's not that simple. I'd say that there are at least five cultures: 1) spooks; 2) suits; 3) SJWs; 4) classic geeks; 5) SJW geeks. It's a cluster-fuck.

You could check tor-talk archives, but if I recall correctly, scumbag supreme syverson bragged about the project somehow causing people who hated each other to 'cooperate'.

You're mixing levels. The "causing people who hated each other to 'cooperate'" argument applies to the Tor network. This is a cluster-fuck at the social level. Nothing stops Appelbaum or anyone else from running relays, or otherwise participating in the network. At least, as long as they hide their identities as needed.

He of course didn't explain exactly how that happened because explaining would have meant admiting that his project is nothing but a bunch of highly corrupt assholes motivated by both greed and sick political 'ideals' (US supremacy), while pretending to be galant champions of 'free speech' - yep, the same fucks who have totalitarian control over reddit, blogs and mailing lists are the 'anarchist' saviours of the 'free speech' world.

Maybe you're right :(

Funny how people are pissed off at that stupid cunt steele while 'forgetting' the mastermind behind her, syverson.

I have no clue what role he currently plays in the organization. He's more of an academic, I think.

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It's not that simple. I'd say that there are at least five cultures: 1) spooks; 2) suits; 3) SJWs; 4) classic geeks; 5) SJW geeks. It's a cluster-fuck.

the addresses of 'academics' are in the TLD .edu, not .mil, you know...

Lol. This holds true, but only in the first layer of the deepweb ;)

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 23:10:49 -0600 Mirimir wrote:

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the addresses of 'academics' are in the TLD .edu, not .mil, you know...

So you'd trust him if he had an .edu address?

Trust is pretty much a meaningless word. What matters is facts. I know for a fact that these people are US military contractors. And they are loyal to their paymasters. That's all that matters. And their decoys, the shitbags who pretend to be 'progressive' social 'justice' 'anarchists' can only affect the judgement of careless people. So, tell me again the fairy tale of the poor 'anti capitalists' who get 100K per year as pentagon spokepersons.

But not princeton.edu surely ;)

On 08/20/2016 09:20 PM, Razer wrote:

On 08/20/2016 07:42 PM, Mirimir wrote:

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My point is that you haven't characterized the players accurately.

Ok then... Characterize them. I assume most of the outcasts and mutineers are NOT 'suits', or government affiliated.

But maybe that's just what they want us to think ;) And maybe there's conflict among government-affiliated factions. DOS vs NSA vs CIA vs FBI etc.

(Albeit there may be infiltration occurring in the ranks of the disaffected... because it's quite easy to act disaffected,. Sort of like it's easy to learn the Marxist dialectic and infiltrate a Marxist organization... Which is Why counterculture groups fared better in the infiltration department during Vietnam anti-war activities too... "Here (cop) take this LSD...")

Maybe acid is part of high-level CIA training ;)

But I digress... Characterize them

Hopeless :(

Rr

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On 08/20/2016 07:27 PM, Razer wrote:

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On 08/20/2016 03:09 PM, Mirimir wrote:

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On 08/20/2016 08:54 AM, Razer wrote:

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On 08/20/2016 04:02 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

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On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 06:23:12AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-August/042032.html > Fri Aug 19 11:34:54 UTC 2016 > thread > Shutting down my tor relay > Stephan Seitz

Did Tor decide to piss off and disconnect the honest relay operators (or as much of them as possible) while keeping the luser cattle?

AFAIK the onion anonymity highly depends on the honesty of the relays in the "circuit" (or whatever they call it, never mind).

This way all relays will be spooks', while now only most of them are.

Kind of what it looks like. I was busi]y watching the 'culture clash' between 'the suits', and what I affectionately call the 'bone in the nose and earlobe hole' crowd. That's part of the process. Ejecting or forcing out the alts and 'outlaws'.

So you think that Andrea will eventually get lynched?

I don't know any of the players in this Sadomasochistic organizational implosion (I'm not a torproject sock puppet as Juan's deluded rants state). I've just seen this clash of cultures and the backbiting and (as we can see) literal slander before somewhere.

My point is that you haven't characterized the players accurately.

...

For some reason it seems particularly well-planned out when one culture is the government, and money, and the other culture's ethics 'revolt'(snigger) at those things being primary.

It's not that simple. I'd say that there are at least five cultures: 1) spooks; 2) suits; 3) SJWs; 4) classic geeks; 5) SJW geeks. It's a cluster-fuck.

Reply to self to mask an anon who didn't write to list.

Anyone ever scroll down to the bottom of the #torstrike hashtag? I did. It was none other than Andrea from Tor Inc. https://twitter.com/jmprcx/status/767466915765903360

That was the first use I *happened* to see, doesn't mean it *was* the first (since apparently tweets are deleteable [1]), or that it implies authorship / responsibility. More interesting to me as observer is that attempting to co-opt hashes, complete with new slogans and memes, seems rather unethical and false upon the user / reader, a bit shameful perhaps. Why not try to beat the opposing view with your own hash. If you can't, well, what have you got then. But at least you're not fading yourself with a co-opt. Other than noting larger trends, that space is not for me, others can surely analyze it all far better than I. [1] One of the reasons there should be simple logging tools available for journalists to watch the dynamics of whatever situation in the world as it happens, and feedback pertinent deleted facts.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 02:02:22PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 06:23:12AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:

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https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-August/042032.html Fri Aug 19 11:34:54 UTC 2016 thread Shutting down my tor relay Stephan Seitz

Did Tor decide to piss off and disconnect the honest relay operators (or

The principled ones. In leaked chats etc, they (Tor Inc honchos) keep focussing on "how to protect the image" and "can we employ this CIA guy without creating a problem for our reputation". It reaks of "we don't give a damn about the principles wee proclaim on our website, Now when volunteers say "enough's enough, I cannot trust you guys, I thought I could, I'm stopping running my relay", they are getting blasted - slapped in the face with their own conscience e.g. "how could you! You are choosing to put peoples lives at risk!" - check it out, "moral/ emotional blackmail" for want of a term, perhaps "conscience blackmail" - that only works when the listener is weak, but they keep trying it on anyway. That's what sociopath's do - try very hard to hold us to our higher standard, while they race around fucking everyone over, hoping we don't see the trick they are using. We go through angst, heartache and distress over the fallout, the wrongs, the failures, while they try to abuse us with this very conscience that causes us our pain. It is evil what they try to do. Even my gentle reply ("you're slapping a --volunteer-- in the face") has been censored! Just check that photo of Shari (-ah law) Steele - she's one tough and angry looking human, and not in a good way - free of empathy, tons of ambition and a very harsh approach from what we are seeing. The failures and outright offensive sequencesing of events surrounding her "Tor Social Contract" speak very loudly. Juan was right.

as much of them as possible) while keeping the luser cattle?

AFAIK the onion anonymity highly depends on the honesty of the relays in the "circuit" (or whatever they call it, never mind).

This way all relays will be spooks', while now only most of them are.

Indeed.

I ran a relay off and on for a long while on a freebsd server, as I've mentioned... i never considered it a big deal, but I've shut it down. I may start it up every now and then for a few hours if I'm playing with something on the box in question and want to fuck with something using torsocks or something similar. John On August 20, 2016 6:23:12 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote:

https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-August/042032.html Fri Aug 19 11:34:54 UTC 2016 thread Shutting down my tor relay Stephan Seitz The situation how the affair about Jake was handled by the Tor project has made me feel very uneasy. After digging through several material (for example https://shiromarieke.github.io/tor) I find that I am no longer believing in this project or trust it. That’s why I’m shutting down my tor relay fsingtor now. As long as the project stays that way it is I will no longer recommend Tor or support it in any ways. And I don’t think that such a project should have any future.

-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/nmq259 @blumo0n posits more questions 20th Aug 2016 from TweetCaster Yes, it was I who originally dug up & reposted that article during Nov 14 to evidence of the double standard of stalker & rape allegations while integrating/celebrating sexual promiscuity in context of public/USG contractor profiles. There is a great deal more I will eventually write, but hopefully specific to the comments from you all...

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 02:53:38 -0400 grarpamp wrote:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/torstrike?src=hash https://twitter.com/hashtag/torgate?src=hash https://twitter.com/hashtag/jakegate?src=hash https://twitter.com/hashtag/ioerror?src=hash

One sensible comment in all that shitter bullshit after years belittling critics of #Tor's funding "because it's pure math," fans now say Tor is "compromised" because of #Torgate a decade of documented funding history is far more relevant to a project's structure than one employee who mostly did PR David Golumbia ‏

On 08/21/2016 07:48 PM, grarpamp wrote:

Ryan Lackey ‏rdl @octal 9h9 hours ago Just when I thought the Tor drama couldn't get even more pathetic: #torstrike (original). It is like honeytrap for lameness. *** However, I think some kind of anonymity overlay network is essential, but Tor in specific, and onion architectures in general, are doomed. But if Tor now exists to trap lameness on both sides and keep the rest of the cypherpunk anonymity tool space clear, that is probably useful ***

Summary emphasis not in original.

One of the ops I'm in convo with on twitter (DMs) Me: "Two big complaints I see in re Tor is lack of further development like Chaff packets an Mixing etc and the fact that many of the entrance and exit nodes seem to be controlled by govt types The former ameliorates but doesn't entirely eliminate the latter issue which is unavoidable My take is anyone stifling the development of further obfuscation techniques is suspect" The other: "Yes. That was the point of the internal critique that Jacob and a few others were pursuing. Too much attention on improving the user experience for a flawed set of protocols." Me: "Jake was taxing them about flawed protocol? Really!" The other: "No, no directly - he was saying that protocol hardening is what as needed, but the USG funders want browser improvements. UX over substance. Rr