On 07/10/2016 05:07 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 09:17:12PM -0700, Rayzer wrote:

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club. I spent my 18th in the Tombs, 100 Centre St. Manhattan Criminal court, for an anti-Vietnam war demo in 1971.

https://twitter.com/StylistComplete/status/751978156123238400

And did the protest change anything?

My dad, A WWII army Colonel, later coordinator for tech writers (InfoSec) at NASA Huntsville, military NASA... Later a regional coordinator for the ADL in the Southeast US until his passing in the 2007 (He stalked the KKK with a bodyguard taking pics of the 'unhoooded' and passed other racist org intel along), in other words, 'a company man' told me a couple of years before he died, with some surprise in his voice: "You know? You kids stopped that war!" Yes... Yes we did. But NOT before we "Brought the war home", and it wasn't JUST kids. BTW, he was alive for the invasion of Iraq and DID NOT LIKE what he was seeing. SOMETHING changed about US Foreign policy in a way he had not expected and he was looking at Pentagon 'Generals" on TV wondering if they even knew what they were talking about. My dad also had his security clearance threatened because of my teen antiwar activism. THE NYPD's "Red Squad" Capt. Finnegan, the 'silver fox', and his thugs, got my name after a guerrilla theater action and bust at NYU's Queens campus and passed it on to the feds who weren't aware I hadn't seen him for ten years and he had no say over me legally or otherwise. Now they'd know. And I didn't need Ed Snowden to inform me the US government spies on, and is scared of, it's own citizens.

The protesters are protesting, the screwing is going on with some damages from both sides.

Long ago, an old man told me wars like in Vietnam were done for beta testing of weapons and dangerous stuff, especially the side effects.

Not so sure about Vietnam, an extractive resource war (Tungsten, tin, rubber, much more incl oil in the Spratlys, S China Sea, that Halliburton was test drilling for under mercenary and special forces protection) but later, and now, ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY. The only thing of value the US produces anymore is weapons systems, and it's hard to sell them unless they've been field tested.

First they poison them, then they ``heal'' them...

See this musical informative vid (sorry FB only...Youtube DMCA pulled it) https://www.facebook.com/AnarchicTendencies/videos/10151230976058450/ for more on that, and no they don't heal them, they let them die... or, as with 'Psychological Kevlar' pre-treating for PTSD and a bunch of other stuff, they use soldiers as guinea pigs. It's IN THE CONTRACT. They PWN you. I remember seeing pics of special forces guys shoveling Agent Orange into the hoppers of Bird Dog Cessnas in Vietnam's jungles bare-chested, without so much as a dust mask. I know a guy who has lung disease... He was in the Navy. His job was cleaning up ship hulls for repainting. They gave him basic dust masks but NEVER checked to make sure he was using it.. Not that the masks would have been effective but. Hence the title of that video: "The Pentagon: They Eat Their Own" Rr

https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/birth-defects-caused-agent-orange ==== In the years following the Vietnam War reports, of high rates of miscarriages, premature births, congenital birth defects, and infant mortality began to surface from regions in Vietnam where Agent Orange was used.

the United States Government passed the Agent Orange Act. This act mandates the US government to pay for the medical care of any Vietnam War veteran, regardless of length of service, related to an Agent Orange disease.

====

IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs (some for being brave) and some of the drugs were found to have very adverse side effects. Don't have better reference ATM than this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/04/the-drugs-that-built-a-sup...

=== The British philosopher Nick Land aptly described the Vietnam War as “a decisive point of intersection between pharmacology and the technology of violence.”

Committee on Crime revealed that from 1966 to 1969, the armed forces had used 225 million tablets of stimulants, mostly Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine), an amphetamine derivative that is nearly twice as strong as the Benzedrine used in the Second World War.

For the first time in military history, the prescription of potent antipsychotic drugs like chlorpromazine, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKlinea ... became routine. ===

On 07/11/2016 06:26 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:04:42AM -0700, Rayzer wrote:

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"You know? You kids stopped that war!"

Yes... Yes we did. But NOT before we "Brought the war home", and it wasn't JUST kids. BTW, he was alive for the invasion of Iraq and DID NOT

Glad to hear this, but I am not sure it is true.

Almost all protests have zero effects, not counting damages between protesters and cops. "Occupy Wallstreet?".

Occupy Wall Steeet wasn't a focused protest it was a general insurrection and it was fun but insurrections either disintegrate or they are crushed. I'm talking about coordinated action on a single focus with tens of thousands of people in the streets all across the US and all sorts of side shows like continual sabotage of the system.... The "Dave Graebers" and other 'vanguard' types were there to fuck everything up too, but for the most part they has so little control over organizations that what happened on the street was not what they intended, but EVERYONE was FOCUSED ON THE WAR. EVERYONE knew someone killed or maimed in Vietnam, or their GF's brother was killed there. The US government was turning college students into cannon fodder with the draft and if your grades didn't keep up with the continually changing requirements of the selective service... changed to suit their manpower needs, off you went and your organized religion wasn't gonna help you either. They'd be glad to pray over your coffin and call you a hero though. This is why AUTOMATED WARFARE. It IS most likely the PRIMARY REASON for it Americans don't like to see the remains of their loved ones come home in a sack on a C-5a Globemaster and it undermines the Pentagon's ability to make war. Want to change things? Anything. It take two traits utterly lacking in American society at the moment. Rage and Focus. Richard Nixon may have sat in to Oval Orifice during the post-Cambodia invasion moratorium as the WH was surrounded by tens of thousands of people with a pitched street battle between protestors and swarms of cop on Pennsylvania Avenue. But he 'blinked', and the US began negotiating... Carpet bombing VIetnam at the same time with HUGE protests about that too, but within a few years it was "Helicopters from the embassy roof". Rr

On 7/11/16, Rayzer wrote:

Occupy Wall Steeet wasn't a focused protest it was a general insurrection and it was fun but insurrections either disintegrate or they are crushed. I'm talking about coordinated action on a single focus with tens of thousands of people in the streets all across the US and all sorts of side shows like continual sabotage of the system.... The "Dave Graebers" and other 'vanguard' types were there to fuck everything up too, but for the most part they has so little control over organizations that what happened on the street was not what they intended, but EVERYONE was FOCUSED ON THE WAR.

https://theintercept.com/2016/07/11/images-militarized-police-baton-rouge-dr... Summer heat maybe bring em out...

On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote:

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IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs

Correct tense is "gives", I dare say.

http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434

It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. I do like the newer stuff better :)

On 07/10/2016 07:41 PM, juan wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:16:38 -0600 Mirimir wrote:

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On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote:

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On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote:

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IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs

Correct tense is "gives", I dare say.

http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434

It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine.

Who says they don't take 'speed' aka amphetamine anymore?

...

Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates.

morphine is an 'opiate'.

Variety is the spice of life ;)

...

I do like the newer stuff better :)

It's all the same stuff. The change an atom here and there just to be able to get new patents.

Not the same at all :)

On July 10, 2016 9:16:38 PM EDT, Mirimir wrote:

On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote:

...

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote:

...

IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs

Correct tense is "gives", I dare say.

http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434

It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine.

Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates.

I do like the newer stuff better :)

Diacetylmorphine has been an instant fucking hit since bayer put it on the market 100+ years ago. *Shudders*... John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On July 11, 2016 6:26:44 AM EDT, Mirimir wrote:

On 07/11/2016 03:55 AM, John wrote:

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On July 10, 2016 9:16:38 PM EDT, Mirimir wrote:

...

On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote:

...

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote:

...

IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs

Correct tense is "gives", I dare say.

http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434

It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine.

Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates.

I do like the newer stuff better :)

Diacetylmorphine has been an instant fucking hit since bayer put it

on the market 100+ years ago. *Shudders*...

...

John

I mostly get off on thinking, and doing stuff. So it's stimulants that I like. And I prefer ones that don't cause anxiety and other craziness.

But I do need to sleep, and sometimes I need help with that. And sometimes there is pain, and I need help with that. However, being zoned out on downers has never appealed. I'd rather just sleep.

When you've built a tolerance and don't fall out in a nod, opiates can be extremely stimulating .... I've had 8 hour bouts of creativity from opiate high more times than I can count, hacking code, pursuing intellectual interests, etc.... Of course the caveat here is the looming threat of addiction. Then again, methamphetamine will give a similar stimulating experience, even more focused, for 24 hours+.... but the accompanying crash is awful IMO, and it sometimes gives me unwanted anxiety. I stick to marijuana these days. ;) John -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQFBBAEBCgArJBxrZXliYXNlLmlvL25peGVuIDxuaXhlbkBrZXliYXNlLmlvPgUC V4N4uwAKCRDjJCC+1Hp4x6RoCACpQog1C0/qAc5+YUIIRgUsgxPT+/PiLZMUlG5y oRmg/Ei7aRXJQgE/J0nOtdB1SkPRp8TCp4lAgimuSNi/B5IDfWgMKwzMWia9vZ5t VDhHfZsj6SVY5lbeqa9p2/mBHy0QjgGmFuI+JvU2iTVlYPRbJBeqmiqz8akPvrHR MQQOZkG7K9RkDwUTiPLDKeBd7WiqnrBm+5cJmsPl36eJg4qGV2Yz20zjMPTTJlgF dq+oqH0CQxx1X+w4ZH2jVqlOal7IjRZGDj7u4MoClROxj0cSa3lltp7bMNRQptOg srN9Bh/vKHKFHlZH6g6X25x0cZmvC6R1MXaqtl4L83bjVTrS =rjbV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----