Shiny stuff and designer societies
New threat, this is offtopic. So I think people took my meaning wrong. I meant to say "don't hate people for behaving as the system rewards them to do", and then to ask "what kind of system would make people behave as you like?". 2015-10-27 21:47 GMT+01:00 Shelley <shelley@misanthropia.org>:
Suggestions, in no particular order:
I feel like you are ignoring the cost of time, underestimating people's expenses, and arbitrarily hate cars and meat.
- Don't buy the newest iCrap (or car or tv) every time they shit one out: you *don't * need it, I assure you.
For most "the latest iCrap" is not a significant expense. 200 euro's a month or so (phone + laptop) is quite doable, especially given how much time one spends with iCrap devices. Resale value is nonzero, too, so really, quite doable.
- Learn how to fix and repurpose things. Take good care of your things so they last longer.
I know how to fix/repurpose most things. Actually fixing things often doesn't compare favorably with just buying a new one - time spent at 10 euro's per hour makes most repairs very borderline effective.
- Freecycle, trade with others
Trade what? I do secondhand shopping and selling when appropriate, that should be good too.
- Shop at second hand and thrift stores for most things.
Do, for the things it makes sense for. It takes more effort as you frequently will not find what you were looking for. (protip: great for amplifiers and speakers)
- Think before you buy. Try to support true fair trade/fair wages and buy locally whenever possible. Hint: it's usually possible.
Fair trade/wages are determined by the capitalist market, not by me. I'm simply not that arrogant. If you don't believe in markts you have more work cut out for you than just buying fair trade branded products. (Protip: fairtrade is just another way for things to be shiny) Buying local is even more meaningless. If transport costs do not outweigh production costs, go ferry it in from Australia, China, Chile, etc. You're making the efficient choice by doing so. - Use a bike or public transit whenever possible. Get rid of your car and
use things like Zip Car for the few occasions when you need to use a personal vehicle. Share a car with friends if you truly need it for kids/work/whatever.
Public transport or Zip Carring add to stress, cost more time, are not reliable and are not portable storage. I'd like an electric car, but the initial purchase is so high it skews things like tax and insurance. Idk why you hate cars so much. They're pretty damn useful, give you lots of freedom and independence, and just help you get around so much better than public transport. Their prices also compare with other forms of transport. (bikes are slow and only really work in villages or compatible cities)
- Prepare your own damn food. Go vegan.
Preparing my own food is a waste of time, other people are cheaper, mass production is cheaper, I'm very mediocre at cooking. Going vegan is an interesting choice, all evidence points to it being much much much better for the environment, etc. but meat is still quite affordable and quite complimentary to meals. If it truly were 100x easier on the environment I'd expect to see that in the price, and I hardly do. I assume there's some sort of sponsoring going on, and until it stops I'll keep on eating delicious and healthy meat. (Hey, you asked for suggestions: these are mine.) Thanks for playing :) Razer mentioned a TV, I don't own one. I have a sizeable monitor. Much prettier than most TVs. I might get a projector someday, it's fun to watch movies together like that. Razer also fuzzes about collectivism vs individualism. They used to have collectivism in many nations. They all lost. I think a society design that involves individual incentives (the best of capitalism; advanced finance, legal persons, markets, competition), global optimization (the best of communism; managed competition, fine tuned production, >designed markets<), and collective ambition (the best of government/academia; being able to strife together and make deep, long term investments) would be ideal.
On 10/28/2015 08:08 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote: 2015-10-27 21:47 GMT+01:00 Shelley <shelley@xxxxxxxx>:
- Learn how to fix and repurpose things. Take good care of your things so they last longer.
I know how to fix/repurpose most things. Actually fixing things often doesn't compare favorably with just buying a new one - time spent at 10 euro's per hour makes most repairs very borderline effective.
Truecost one or two dead 24 year old foxconn/Bangladeshi sweatshop worker's body into that equation when you do that cost comparison. Even if it doesn't affect you directly now, it will in the future in the form of terrorism, because terrorist come from societies and cultures being destroyed, typically in this day and age for someone else's profit.
Razer mentioned a TV, I don't own one. I have a sizeable monitor. Much prettier than most TVs. I might get a projector someday, it's fun to watch movies together like that.
Razer also fuzzes about collectivism vs individualism. They used to have collectivism in many nations. They all lost. I think a society design that involves individual incentives (the best of capitalism; advanced finance, legal persons, markets, competition), global optimization (the best of communism; managed competition, fine tuned production, >designed markets<), and collective ambition (the best of government/academia; being able to strife together and make deep, long term investments) would be ideal.
The Zapatistas are a collectivist society and they've far from 'lost'. Other example must exist but they're not coming to mind, and certainly 'scalability' IS a problem. The homeless in the US spontaneously form self-supporting collectives that are also highly individualistic. The only real social structures are 'fuzzy'. The quest for purity, of thought, political structure, culture, drug, whatever, is a disease. But my basic stand is, by it's very design, Capitalism is murderous, and predatory. There is no such thing as 'kinder and gentler' capitalism and there never will be. RR
On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:51:23 -0700 2015-10-27 21:47 GMT+01:00 Shelley <shelley@xxxxxxxx>:
- Learn how to fix and repurpose things. Take good care of your things so they last longer.
That sounds like true capitalism (savings) whereas the system Lodewijk is advertising is mercantilism/consumerism/fascism. Notice that Lodewijk has whined in the past about bitcoin being 'deflationary', that is, not being a tool that can be used to covertly steal. Lodewijk : > I think a society
design that involves individual incentives (the best of capitalism; advanced finance, legal persons,
He's talking about mercantilism. By "advanced finance" he actually means the banking mafia and government robbing everybody blind. Lodewijk :
global optimization (the best of communism; managed competition, fine tuned production, >designed markets<)
That is to say, a mixed economy. Again. mercantilism/fascim/state socialism/state communism. Lodewijk is just a run of the mill fascist who thinks he has the 'god given' right to 'design' 'society' according to his fuckingly retarded tastes. Also, he likes to pretend that the bad outcomes of his fascist system are caused by innocent lambs who actually want to do the 'right' thing. Sick.
Am I the only one who gets an automatic grin on his face when he/she sees Juan posted something? On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:57:38 -0300 Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:51:23 -0700
2015-10-27 21:47 GMT+01:00 Shelley <shelley@xxxxxxxx>:
- Learn how to fix and repurpose things. Take good care of your things so they last longer.
That sounds like true capitalism (savings) whereas the system Lodewijk is advertising is mercantilism/consumerism/fascism.
Notice that Lodewijk has whined in the past about bitcoin being 'deflationary', that is, not being a tool that can be used to covertly steal.
Lodewijk : > I think a society
design that involves individual incentives (the best of capitalism; advanced finance, legal persons,
He's talking about mercantilism. By "advanced finance" he actually means the banking mafia and government robbing everybody blind.
Lodewijk :
global optimization (the best of communism; managed competition, fine tuned production, >designed markets<)
That is to say, a mixed economy. Again. mercantilism/fascim/state socialism/state communism.
Lodewijk is just a run of the mill fascist who thinks he has the 'god given' right to 'design' 'society' according to his fuckingly retarded tastes.
Also, he likes to pretend that the bad outcomes of his fascist system are caused by innocent lambs who actually want to do the 'right' thing. Sick.
On 10/28/15, nonomos <nonomos@mail.com> wrote:
Am I the only one who gets an automatic grin on his face when he/she sees Juan posted something?
It is enjoyable when folks speak their mind. As in, really speak their mind. And with Juan it's a really good opportunity to practice ignoring the occasional sharp edge and hear what he's actually saying. For some strange reason today when reading his comments my head started spontaneously nodding, eyes squinted and a faint "mm hmmm" came from somewhere in the room - and I was the only one within 500m. I've been infected. I still feel there might be a less confronting way to communicate his political anarchist foundations, but that's the job of pioneers - Juan's the true vision keeper/ trail blazer, and they come before pioneers and need a hard head. Doc: What's wrong? Patient: I think I've god JDD. D: WFT? P: Juan Deficit Disorder. D: Come on, don't waste my time, what's wrong? P: It's the world. The world has JDD but doesn't know it. D: You might need a different kind of doctor. P: The whole world does. D: Hard to disagree there...
On 10/28/2015 02:41 PM, nonomos wrote:
Am I the only one who gets an automatic grin on his face when he/she sees Juan posted something?
Anyone who cuts to the chase gets a +1 from me! RR, newline offender
On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:57:38 -0300 Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:51:23 -0700
2015-10-27 21:47 GMT+01:00 Shelley <shelley@xxxxxxxx>:
- Learn how to fix and repurpose things. Take good care of your things so they last longer.
That sounds like true capitalism (savings) whereas the system Lodewijk is advertising is mercantilism/consumerism/fascism.
Notice that Lodewijk has whined in the past about bitcoin being 'deflationary', that is, not being a tool that can be used to covertly steal.
Lodewijk : > I think a society
design that involves individual incentives (the best of capitalism; advanced finance, legal persons,
He's talking about mercantilism. By "advanced finance" he actually means the banking mafia and government robbing everybody blind.
Lodewijk :
global optimization (the best of communism; managed competition, fine tuned production, >designed markets<)
That is to say, a mixed economy. Again. mercantilism/fascim/state socialism/state communism.
Lodewijk is just a run of the mill fascist who thinks he has the 'god given' right to 'design' 'society' according to his fuckingly retarded tastes.
Also, he likes to pretend that the bad outcomes of his fascist system are caused by innocent lambs who actually want to do the 'right' thing. Sick.
Dnia środa, 28 października 2015 16:08:44 Lodewijk andré de la porte pisze:
New threat, this is offtopic.
How delightfully ironic that Syria is on-topic here: http://rys.io/en/39 -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On 10/30/2015 06:40 PM, rysiek wrote:
Dnia środa, 28 października 2015 16:08:44 Lodewijk andré de la porte pisze:
New threat, this is offtopic. How delightfully ironic that Syria is on-topic here: http://rys.io/en/39
/Preliminary analysis revealed such keywords as /proxy/ and /Israel/ were blocked. And of course, much porn/
/Tsk. Btw, whjen Telecomix helps Pirate Bay, they're really assisting Cloudflare's logging for da feds. Do they know?/ I'd rather be looking at Pentagon logs for US SOGs in Syria. The sovereign Syrian government is battling a disinformation blitz. Claims that Russians are bombing hospitals ... without a speck of proof, to distract from the proven bombing of an MSF hospital by US forces that KNEW it was a hospital, for example. The intertubz is very MUCH a part of that war, and since I side with the Syrian government, if only because the other option looks A LOT like what NATO did to Libya, and since the only viable avenues Syria has to prevent the US and other hostile forces from using it's communications infrastructure as a weapon against it by CIA mercenaries from Chechnya, Turkey at el, and their western based disinformation operators, would be destruction of their civilian telecom system, or spy on that system just like every other fucking country in the world does, with the US leading the surveillance parade, I have no problem whatsoever with the Syrian government keeping logs. Everyone else does. EVERYONE. It begs the question. What's your point? RR
On 10/30/2015 06:40 PM, rysiek wrote:
Dnia środa, 28 października 2015 16:08:44 Lodewijk andré de la porte
Dnia sobota, 31 października 2015 09:47:32 Razer pisze: pisze:
New threat, this is offtopic.
How delightfully ironic that Syria is on-topic here: http://rys.io/en/39
/Preliminary analysis revealed such keywords as /proxy/ and /Israel/ were blocked. And of course, much porn/
/Tsk.
Btw, whjen Telecomix helps Pirate Bay, they're really assisting Cloudflare's logging for da feds. Do they know?/ (...)
Might I suggest looking at the date of that posting? It's right there, on bright orange strip, in huge font. :) -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
participants (6)
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Juan -
Lodewijk andré de la porte -
nonomos -
Razer -
rysiek -
Zenaan Harkness