On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 12:04:04PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 12:00:07AM +0000, jim bell wrote:

...

In the last couple of days, I wanted to remind myself of the timing of the first appearance of my Assassination Politics essay on the Cypherpunks list.  My recollection is that I published Part 1 on the Digitaliberty mailing list, maintained by Bill Frezza, on FIDOnet.  At that time, I was unaware of the existence of the Cypherpunks email list.  At some point, somebody saw my essay, and posted a reference (or a copy) to Cypherpunks, I believe.  And at some point, I was invited to the Cypherpunks list.   But over 24 years later, I don't recall the exact timing.  I know, I believe, that Part 2 wasn't written until later in July, 1995. So to recall this, I just searched for 'cypherpunks archive'.   I found the site listed in the title, figuring that it would contain the information I sought.   https://mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki/    That looked promising.    I looked at:  mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki which, promisingly, showed the years 1992-1999.   So far, so good,  Since the information I sought should have appeared in 1995, I clicked on that year,  Weirdly, the information for March and April and June was not present,   Huh?  This was, pretty much, the time frame I needed to search, Am I imagining things?   Could somebody look for various strings, like "Jim Bell", or "Assassination Politics", or "AP", etc?   Well, it's not like my existence was entirely deleted.   https://mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki/authors/jim_bell_jimbell_at_...   But something very weird is going on,   The information I sought, is not included,   Is this a mere accident?  What is the pattern, here?                 Jim Bell

Does anyone have a single file or zip of "up to 1999", that we could use to complete our historical archives?

Sorry, too slow this morning: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/raw/

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 01:16:34AM +0000, jim bell wrote:

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 06:05:34 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 12:04:04PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 12:00:07AM +0000, jim bell wrote:

...

In the last couple of days, I wanted to remind myself of the timing of the first appearance of my Assassination Politics essay on the Cypherpunks list.  My recollection is that I published Part 1 on the Digitaliberty mailing list, maintained by Bill Frezza, on FIDOnet.  At that time, I was unaware of the existence of the Cypherpunks email list.  At some point, somebody saw my essay, and posted a reference (or a copy) to Cypherpunks, I believe.  And at some point, I was invited to the Cypherpunks list.   But over 24 years later, I don't recall the exact timing.  I know, I believe, that Part 2 wasn't written until later in July, 1995.

...

So to recall this, I just searched for 'cypherpunks archive'.   I found the site listed in the title, figuring that it would contain the information I sought.   https://mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki/    That looked promising.    I looked at:  mailing-list-archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki which, promisingly, showed the years 1992-1999.   So far, so good,  Since the information I sought should have appeared in 1995, I clicked on that year,  Weirdly, the information for March and April and June was not present,   Huh?  This was, pretty much, the time frame I needed to search, Am I imagining things?   Could somebody look for various strings, like "Jim Bell", or "Assassination Politics", or "AP", etc?   Well, it's not like my existence was entirely deleted.   https://mailing-list->archive.cryptoanarchy.wiki/authors/jim_bell_jimbell_at_pacifier_com_/   But something very weird is going on,   The information I sought, is not included,   Is this a mere accident?  What is the pattern, here?                 Jim Bell

...

...

Does anyone have a single file or zip of "up to 1999", that we could use to complete our historical archives?

...

Sorry, too slow this morning: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/raw/

Well, I looked at the file   http://cypherpunks.venona.com/raw/cyp-1995.txt     using my browser.   First, I looked for "Assassination Politics", and found two (yes, TWO) references,I then looked for "AP" and found nothing, What is going on?

Jim, you should be using a command line environment with the command "grep". Download that or another text file. Then use the grep command to search for whichever term you are interested in, e.g. "grep -in $TERM file.txt" The -i option ignores case, making the search case insensitive. The -n option also gives you line numbers where the search term is found.

Ha. Was this mentioned? https://venona.com/ "Ryan Lackey's personal site. https://www.venona.com/rdl/" So venona.com is his domain - and he was a 'cypherpunk' I believe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Lackey "Lackey operated BlueIraq, a VSAT communications and IT company serving the DoD and domestic markets in Iraq and Afghanistan during the US conflicts." priceless

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 06:14:17 PM PDT, Punk - Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:

I see 1777 messages from "jimbell@pacifier.com" - the first one

 >Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 23:03:56 PST - Subject: Solution for US/Foreign Software?  >   last one :  Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:47:41 +0800 - Subject: Re: Rwanda and "anarchy"  >   here's a funny one...from worthless piece of shit perry metzger... ---------- "From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 22:25:54 +0800 Subject: Re: Reasons in support of crypto-anarchy WAS Re: Why am I (fwd)" "Frankly, Jim, the only reason I haven't torn apart all the utterly ennervated simulacra of arguments you have posted to support your "concepts" is that they are *all* off topic and I do not participated in the discussion of off topic postings." "That does not, however, mean that I don't agree with the people who think you are a loon, which is apparently a nearly universal opinion." "Consider what I'm about to do kinder than using bets to encourage someone to put a bullet in your brain, which is apparently your way of solving all the world's problems." "PLONK." "Perry"--------  end of quotation --------- Jim Bell's comment: First, I notice you don't identify the comment that his comment responds to. This, his reaction, is probably explained by the principle "Not Invented Here".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here         Nobody on this list invented the concept of 'encryption', which must have happened many hundreds of years ago,  Nobody on this list invented the concept of 'public-key encryption', which I think we've learned was done by Clifford Cocks at GCHQ in the early 1970's   Public-key cryptography | | | | | | | | | | | Public-key cryptography Public-key cryptography, or asymmetric cryptography, is a cryptographic system that uses pairs of keys: public k... | | |   , and independently re-invented by others in the late 1970's.   I've probably said, maybe many times before, that ultimately it is utterly irrelevant whether a person claims to "like" the AP concept.  It simply doesn't matter if YOU, or anyone else, "likes" or "dislikes" the idea of AP.   I could, hypothetically (and counter-factually), claim I "hate" it, and what would that do?  That wouldn't fool anyone.   AP became inevitable the day I published it, BECAUSE I published it. The idea got out because _I_ had the courage to publish it, UNDER MY OWN NAME, courage that many on Cypherpunks apparently never had.   I could have concealed it, "lost" it.   Eventually it might have been discovered again, perhaps a few years later.   But I, ever the impatient one, considered for weeks whether exposing the idea early might allow the government to permanently prevent it.   Having decided that wouldn't happen, THEN I published it.  So it could never be erased from reality.  Forever.  And yes, I give much thanks to John Young of Cryptome, who has kept a copy on public display for 20+ years.

From the beginning, I claimed that AP, once successfully implemented, would complete eliminate the need for, and even the possibility of, militaries, war, and nuclear weapons.   Has anybody else thought of another idea to accomplish that?   Has my claim ever been successfully challenged?   Or even SERIOUSLY challenged?   Not here, to my knowledge,   Does ANY of you have an argument why an AP-type system won't, or can't, eliminate all nuclear weapons?  24 years after I wrote it, does the average protesting IDIOT have any idea that somebody has actually described the solution to the problem he claims to desire?   A solution he hasn't been told about, not because it wouldn't work, but instead because it WOULD work. Does anybody, NOW, 24 years later, believe that my AP concept was, is, or should be, "off-topic" on the Cypherpunks list?   Has a more-important idea for the future of mankind ever been discussed on Cypherpunks?  Step right up and claim it!   What is the ultimate purpose of Cypherpunks but to try to eliminate the problems that government surely causes? The Federal Government began to spy on me within weeks, and probably not more than a few days, after I had published Part 1 of my AP essay on Digitaliberty.     Want to hear more?   See my 2003 lawsuit,    http://cryptome.org/jdb/jdb-v-usa-oct2004.pdf        at least Claims 45-49.    The Government committed dozens of felonies in order to further harass me and illegally keep me locked up.    http://cryptome.org/jdb/jdb-v-usa-oct2004.pdf     See Claims 504 onward.   I think that time has been far more kind to my rhetorical position than other people's.   Prior to the existence of TOR and Bitcoin, some people might have doubted that pieces necessary to implement AP were likely to become available.  (I'm not saying that TOR or Bitcoin is suitable; merely that their existence points the way to the eventual existence of AP as a functioning goal, using other tools more suitable to the task.)  Now, does anybody on Cypherpunks claim that the technical background of AP could never be implemented?   The best they can do is to claim that governments won't ALLOW AP to be implemented, because they know they will be the first targets.

Remember what I said at the beginning of Part 2 of my AP essay: "Part 2 "At the Village Pizza shop, as they were sitting down to consume a pepperoni, Dorothy asked Jim, 'So what other inventions are you working on?" Jim replied, 'I've got a new idea, but it's really evolutionary. Literally REVOLUTIONARY.' 'Okay, Jim, which government are you planning to overthrow?,' she asked, playing along. 'All of them,' answered Jim."  " This conversation actually occurred, although somewhere along the way the correct "revolutionary" somehow got changed to "evolutionary".  No,  I said "revolutionary" TWICE, and I genuinely meant it.  I was in Roslyn, Washington, the small town that the TV show 'Northern Exposure' was filmed.  Look at the beginning credits, and you will see it:   "Village Pizza".      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKDzDA-jgRs  at 1:32   I was there, sitting next to "Dorothy H.".     For at least 5 years I visited there in one day in early July to meet with other Northern Exposure fans,   "Dorothy H." was one, and without intending to, she gave me one of the most fantastic and appropriate straight-lines in the history of conversation.  Oddly, as I said, "All of them", the pizza came...And Dorothy never learned what my "revolutionary" idea was!   But probably days later, I wrote of the incident in Part 2 of the AP essay.   And no, the combination of Ethereum and Augur is not, YET, AP.  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17611585      "Its not Jim Bell's Assassination Politics but we're getting there."   (And no, I didn't write that, and I don't know who did.)   But the difference is merely the choice of those implementing Augur, not a fundamental limitation of the technology. The people who claim to be on the Cypherpunks, ostensibly to help, need to start considering reality.                  Jim Bell

 On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 09:35:05 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
 
 
 On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 02:58:45AM +0000, jim bell wrote:
> I've probably said, maybe many times before, that ultimately it is
> utterly irrelevant whether a person claims to "like" the AP
> concept.  It simply doesn't matter if YOU, or anyone else, "likes"
> or "dislikes" the idea of AP.   I could, hypothetically (and
> counter-factually), claim I "hate" it, and what would that do? 
> That wouldn't fool anyone.   AP became inevitable the day I
> published it, BECAUSE I published it.
>
> The idea got out because _I_ had the courage to publish it, UNDER
> MY OWN NAME, courage that many on Cypherpunks apparently never
> had.   I could have concealed it, "lost" it.   Eventually it might
> have been discovered again, perhaps a few years later.   But I,
> ever the impatient one, considered for weeks whether exposing the
> idea early might allow the government to permanently prevent it. 
>  Having decided that wouldn't happen, THEN I published it.  So it
> could never be erased from reality.  Forever.  And yes, I give much
> thanks to John Young of Cryptome, who has kept a copy on public
> display for 20+ years.
>
> From the beginning, I claimed that AP, once successfully
> implemented, would complete eliminate the need for, and even the
> possibility of, militaries, war, and nuclear weapons.   Has
> anybody else thought of another idea to accomplish that?   Has my


>I believe anarchism aka "direct democracy" (as I understand that
term), is a way to achieve a peaceful transition from the current
failed system, yes. :
True, but remember David Friedman's "hard problem", published in his 1973 book The Machinery of Freedom.   (republished 1989 and 2014).,   There were thought to be major problems with having a minarchistic (or anarchistic) region (I won't call it a "country", with its implications in regards to the existence of a government,)     Such a region, it was believed by Friedman (and myself, until January 1995, when I invented my AP idea.   Although, I was unaware of Friedman's and his "Hard Problem" until long after 1995) would be subject to attack by other nations with the traditional tax-the-citizens and buy-militaries and attack-your-neighbors policies.
Do people on Cypherpunks simply accept my claim that I (by inventing AP) described the solution Friedman's "Hard Problem"?  That AP foresees, and actually makes unavoidable, militaries, wars, and nuclear weapons?
That would be progress, but I don't recall seeing such a discussion.  And I've never gotten (that I recall) a response from Friedman, acknowleding that I solved his 'Hard Problem'.   Shouldn't he say something?   
 

 > 1. Everyone votes on, literally, everything.
    Today this is technologically trivial.

One problem with this is that a 'vote' presumes that everybody is bound by the results of a 'vote'.     The flavors of ice cream in my freezer aren't there because of any 'vote', are they?

 > 2. Notwithstanding any and every vote of the collective/ mob,
    the individual human's right to conscientiously and peacefully
    object, is sacrosanct and may not be abrogated.


>The question is whether the "carrot" of such a peacful transition,
is possible in the face of the existing powers that be, without the
"stick" of AP.

I don't recall seeing such a discussion,





>> claim ever been successfully challenged?   Or even SERIOUSLY
> challenged?   Not here, to my knowledge,   Does ANY of you have an
> argument why an AP-type system won't, or can't, eliminate all
> nuclear weapons?  24 years after I wrote it, does the average
> protesting IDIOT have any idea that somebody has actually
> described the solution to the problem he claims to desire?   A
> solution he hasn't been told about, not because it wouldn't work,
> but instead because it WOULD work.
>
> Does anybody, NOW, 24 years later, believe that my AP concept was,
> is, or should be, "off-topic" on the Cypherpunks list?   Has a
> more-important idea for the future of mankind ever been discussed
> on Cypherpunks?  Step right up and claim it!   What is the ultimate
> purpose of Cypherpunks but to try to eliminate the problems that
> government surely causes?
>
> The Federal Government began to spy on me within weeks, and
> probably not more than a few days, after I had published Part 1 of
> my AP essay on Digitaliberty.     Want to hear more?   See my 2003
> lawsuit,    http://cryptome.org/jdb/jdb-v-usa-oct2004.pdf        at
> least Claims 45-49.    The Government committed dozens of felonies
> in order to further harass me and illegally keep me locked up. 
>   http://cryptome.org/jdb/jdb-v-usa-oct2004.pdf     See Claims 504
> onward.  
>
> I think that time has been far more kind to my rhetorical position
> than other people's.   Prior to the existence of TOR and Bitcoin,
> some people might have doubted that pieces necessary to implement
> AP were likely to become available.  (I'm not saying that TOR or
> Bitcoin is suitable; merely that their existence points the way to
> the eventual existence of AP as a functioning goal, using other
> tools more suitable to the task.)  Now, does anybody on Cypherpunks
> claim that the technical background of AP could never be
> implemented?   The best they can do is to claim that governments
> won't ALLOW AP to be implemented, because they know they will be
> the first targets.
>
> Remember what I said at the beginning of Part 2 of my AP essay:
> 
> "Part 2
> 
> "At the Village Pizza shop, as they were sitting down to consume a
> pepperoni, Dorothy asked Jim, 'So what other inventions are you
> working on?" Jim replied, 'I've got a new idea, but it's really
> evolutionary. Literally REVOLUTIONARY.' 'Okay, Jim, which
> government are you planning to overthrow?,' she asked, playing
> along.
>
> 'All of them,' answered Jim."  "
>
> This conversation actually occurred, although somewhere along the
> way the correct "revolutionary" somehow got changed to
> "evolutionary".  No,  I said "revolutionary" TWICE, and I genuinely
> meant it.  I was in Roslyn, Washington, the small town that the TV
> show 'Northern Exposure' was filmed.  Look at the beginning
> credits, and you will see it:   "Village Pizza". 
>
>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKDzDA-jgRs  at 1:32
>
>   I was there, sitting next to "Dorothy H.".     For at least 5
> years I visited there in one day in early July to meet with other
> Northern Exposure fans,   "Dorothy H." was one, and without
> intending to, she gave me one of the most fantastic and appropriate
> straight-lines in the history of conversation.  Oddly, as I said,
> "All of them", the pizza came...And Dorothy never learned what my
> "revolutionary" idea was!   But probably days later, I wrote of the
> incident in Part 2 of the AP essay.  
> 
> And no, the combination of Ethereum and Augur is not, YET, AP. 
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17611585      "Its not Jim
> Bell's Assassination Politics but we're getting there."   (And no,
> I didn't write that, and I don't know who did.)   But the
> difference is merely the choice of those implementing Augur, not a
> fundamental limitation of the technology.
> 
> The people who claim to be on the Cypherpunks, ostensibly to help,
> need to start considering reality.  
>                Jim Bell


>The truth is, most folks would proclaim to prefer a peaceful
transition, where they are their families lives remain safe
throughout the coming transition.

Quite true, but the prospect of the ultimate outcome will likely stop most resistance.,

>The truth also is, that TPTB ('member the Fed), have demonstrated a
few millenia of unwillingness to shift towards giving up their power
over the majority.
Very true also,.

>And in the face of these truths, another truth is that at some
tipping point, without a pathway of peace, most folks in angst,
distress and an abject loss to any solution, do tip over into
accepting literal chaos.


>We are at an incredible historical junction, a literal tipping point
- although it plays out over some years, historically it's very
quick.

>Which way will we collectively turn?
Certainly something to think about !!


  

On Thursday, October 31, 2019, 12:18:09 PM PDT, Punk - Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote: On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 02:58:45 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

First, I notice you don't identify the comment that his comment responds to. This, his reaction, is probably explained by the principle "Not Invented Here". 

 >metzger is obviously commenting on assasination politics. And he's quite mad because some ppl are planning to kill his beloved politicians. Metzger is the typical fascist asshole posing as 'libertarian' who shows his true colors as soon as some actual libertarian proposal is made. Anyway, I saw the message by chance, sort of, and thought it was a nice example of self-parody. Okay, sounds like an excellent call.     now, searches for "assasination" - some relevant hits ------ [snip]

From: shamrock@netcom.com (Lucky Green) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 95 18:55:45 PDT Subject: Re: Forgery, bills, and the Four Horsemen  (Articles and Comment)

Ecash of course is of *no* value for the various assasination markets, drug dealing, money laundring, etc that routinely get mentioned in the same paragraph as Ecash. The reason is the *full traceability* of the payee that has been deliberately built into the current version of Ecash. A "feature" that you may rest assured will be part of all future versions backed by anyone with even marginal reputation in the financial markets. --------     first hit for "Assasination Politics" I can find is this ---------

From: "E. ALLEN SMITH" <EALLENSMITH@ocelot.Rutgers.EDU> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:41:06 +0800 Subject: Re: Reasons in support of crypto-anarchy WAS Re: Why am I      wrong?

 >   I had been working on a series of questions/problems with the Assasination Politics idea as initially presented, to be sent to Jim and to people on the NWLIBERTARIANS list, as he requested, but you've kind of preempted one of them

/snip

Jim Bell's comment starts: So, where did the rest of my comments go?  While I don't have my own emails from this period, I know that by July 1995 I had published Part 2 of AP, and Part 1 must have appeared well before that.    How suspicious am I supposed to be?  I did find some, even many, of my own emails as early as December 1995, but that should have been 6 months after I appeared on CP.   At the same time, however, it appears that there are MANY threads from 1995 that are being archived.   I don't see any way that "all" of my pre-December-1995 emails could disappear, yet leaving hundreds (?) of other postings on threads that don't include any (?) of my comments.   My main motivation in this is to determine how quickly after my publication of Part 1 of AP did the government begin to spy on me.  Their 'agent', Daniel J. Saban, purchased the house at 7302 Corregidor, next to me.  The previous owner was a schoolteacher, John Hauer, who accepted what must have been an unexpected job offer from the Pacific Northwest National Laboratories in West Richland, Washington.   (he is currently listed as a retired ex-employee of PNNL   https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-hauer-466413b3/   ).   The date of sale is listed as March 1, 1995, but that precise date might not really mean much, except that it narrows down the time that this all occurred a bit. See Claims 46 and 47 of my 2003 lawsuit:   https://cryptome.org/jdb-v-usa-106.htm   I learned from my (now late) mother, who was a schoolteacher and, eventually, a school counselor at DeSoto Jr. High from 1967 through 1989 that public-school teachers work on yearly contracts, and will very rarely quit during a school year, except for very unusual circumstances.  The Federal Government must have really wanted to spy on me, similar to the way I think they spied on Robert Hanssen.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen     This Wikipedia article doesn't seem to mention that tactic against Hanssen, which I recall was publicized during the time Hanssen's case was publicized.   If Hauer's job offer had been 'ordinary', PNNL would have certainly given Hauer the time to end the school year.  But it wasn't 'ordinary', and they needed him to move out, perhaps immediately. So, does anybody know when the subject of AP first appeared on CP?                          Jim Bell

Thank you for your assistance.   I don't know whether the problem is this specific archive missing the relevant material, or is something bigger and more suspicious.                 Jim Bell On Thursday, October 31, 2019, 03:13:24 PM PDT, John Young <jya@pipeline.com> wrote: Two citations from: Cypherpunks Archive 1992-1998 (checked only 1995 and 1996, might want to look at all) <http://cryptome.org/cpunks/cpunks-92-98.zip>http://cryptome.org/cpunks/cpunks-92-98.zip Someone quoting you from a 1995 message not in the 1995 packet. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Rosenberg" <hal9001@panix.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 04:10:25 +0800 To: jim bell <jimbell@pacifier.com> Subject: Re: "Deterrence" At 19:17 12/29/95, jim bell wrote:

In my essay, "Assassination Politics," I pointed out that it would be relatively easy to deter such official-type actions if enough of us simply said, "NO!" and denominated it in terms of dollars and cents.  After all, with four million Compuserve users, if they each were willing to donate a penny to see this latter-day Fuhrer dead, that would be $40,000.  (Pardon me if I don't translate this into marks and other currencies.) [snip] WHEN, exactly, would it be appropriate to act?

----- Before that Tim May musings in 1994: From: tcmay@localhost.netcom.com (Timothy C. May) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 23:41:54 PDT To: Hal <hfinney@shell.portal.com> Subject: Cash, cheaters, and anonymity UNTRACEABLE MARKETS FOR ASSASSINATIONS To make this brutally concrete, here's how escrow makes murder contracts much safer than they are today to negotiate. Instead of one party being caught in an FBI sting, as is so often the case when amateurs try to arrange hits, they can use an escrow service to insulate themselves from: 1. From being traced, because the exchanges are handled via pseudonyms 2. From the killer taking the money and then not performing the hit, because the escrow agent holds the money until the murder is verified (according to some prototocol, such a newspaper report...again, an area for more work, thankfully). 3. From being arrested when the money is picked up, as this is all done via digital cash. There are some ways to reduce the popularity of this Murder, Incorporated system. (Things I've been thinking about for about 6 years, and which we discussed on the list and on the Extropians list. I'll save this for another time.) My point here is to show how on-line clearing works in conjunction with an escrow agent function.(Esther clears the cash, and can issue new cash to Bob, who "trusts" her that if he does the job, the cash will clear, as she's the escrow agent he's dealt with many times before.) ------------ From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 14:48:22 PDT To: doug@OpenMind.com (Doug Cutrell) Subject: Re: Black Cryptoanarchy (KKK, monopolies, contract killing) Markets for assassinations--untraceable and unlinkable--have been a topic of discussion for a long time. You'll find them explicitly mentioned in my 1988 "Crypto Anarchist Manifesto."

On Thursday, October 31, 2019, 03:32:08 PM PDT, Punk - Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote: On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 21:32:39 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

So, where did the rest of my comments go?  While I don't have my own emails from this period, I know that by July 1995 I had published Part 2 of AP, and Part 1 must have appeared well before that.    How suspicious am I supposed to be?  I did find some, even many, of my own emails as early as December 1995, but that should have been 6 months after I appeared on CP. 

 >Well, apparentely if you posted anything before december 1995, it's not in those archives. (do you recall if you had another address apart from jimbell@pacifier.com? ) No, I believe pacifier.com was my only Internet email address at that time, and at least the only one that I used to communicate with the CP list.  (I had been communicating on FIDOnet for a few years.  I don't recall what my address on FIDOnet was.) But remember, even if ALL of __MY__ emails mysteriously disappeared, that wouldn't explain why everybody else's (relevant to AP) emails would disappear as well.  (During the pre-December 2006 time frame.)  Theirs, TO me,and theirs, to each other.  What happened to THOSE?  I think this needs to be carefully studied.  

...

At the same time, however, it appears that there are MANY threads from 1995 that are being archived.   I don't see any way that "all" of my pre-December-1995 emails could disappear, yet leaving hundreds (?) of other postings on threads that don't include any (?) of my comments.  

   > I haven't read all the messages in order, so I can't tell if there's stuff missing inbetween them. I might give it a try. It's technically possible to delete all your messages, and replies/references to them I guess, but it seems somewhat unlikely? Or else the archives have indeed been carefuly edited... That sure sounds to be exceedingly improbable, huh?  Who has had control of the archives?   I figure these records can't have been kept only by ONE person, right?  Other people should have copies. This is beginning to sound like a mystery-thriller.    How exciting.               Jim Bell

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 23:56:04 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:

That sure sounds to be exceedingly improbable, huh?  Who has had control of the archives?   I figure these records can't have been kept only by ONE person, right?  Other people should have copies. This is beginning to sound like a mystery-thriller.    How exciting.

hmm. I searched for "assassina" now. Turns out I had previously misspelled it as "assasina"...oh well. there are some 60 comments on political assassination in general in the 92-95 period, kennedy stuff etc. And this message from you. ------------ From: jimbell@pacifier.com (jim bell) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 03:09:56 +0800 Subject: Re: e$: Come aaaannnndddd Get it If you've been following my idea, "assassination politics," you know that there is an excellent use for payee-anonymous digital cash. ------------ so that's a few days before december 1995... also, searches for " AP " return posts about associated press. The first usage of "AP" as shorthand for assassination pols. I found is this ----------- From: frantz@netcom.com (Bill Frantz) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 05:21:23 +0800 Subject: Re: Assassination Politics(tm) was V-chips, CC, and Motorcycle Helmets (4) I think that if someone can be traced as profiting from a AP death, e.g. through winning a gamble on the date/time of death, that person's whereabouts at the time of death will be carefully investigated. ------------

Subject: Highway song No, the Data Highway won't likely tolerate "sealed loads" that might

Re encrypted loads, it currently does, what no one has widely created yet to further fuck with the intolerant, are networks that can defeat who-is-talking-to-who traffic analysis.

Subject: Black Cryptoanarchy (KKK, monopolies, contract Perhaps it is even possible to make it impossible to tell that the message was encrypted with the contract killer's public key (the killer would have to attempt decryption of all similarly encoded messages on alt.test, but that might be quite feasible).

gpg --throw-keyids

Subject: (fwd) "Will You Be a Terrorist?" I will not be surprised to hear that the Cypherpunks group is classified as a terrorist group

Everyone who has ever subscribed, both readers and posters, are already on the terrorist list, for life.

Subject: Re: Forgery, bills, and the Four Horsemen (Articles and Comment) Ecash of course is of *no* value... The reason is the *full traceability* of the payee that has been deliberately built into the current version ... A "feature" that you may rest assured will be part of all future versions backed by anyone with even marginal reputation in the financial markets.

s, Ecash , Bitcoin Blockstream / Core / Lightning , g

searched for "assassina" now. Turns out I had previously misspelled it as "assasina"...oh well.

Covering [intentional] mispellings, and base word... egrep -i 'as{1,4}as{1,4}in'

missing ... material

If the disk media in use at the time is still around... grep disk

assasina

Sounds like a hot date.

----------------- From: jim bell <jimbell@pacifier.com> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:39:54 +0800 Subject: Re: Reasons in support of crypto-anarchy WAS Re: Why am I wrong?

...

1. Governments will no longer be "necessary," if they ever were. 2. Protection will no longer depend on having a "government."

...

3. Anonymous networking technology will protect our rights, to the extent they can be protected. 4. Your statement, "...anarchy is a massive step backward..." is absolutely incorrect.

That's fine that you believe the things, but for acceptance by others you will have to provide support for your position. I, personally, would like to see your premises so that I may evualuate your claims. You may indeed be correct in your assessment.

Well, here's my "Assassination Politics" essay. [Part 1] I've been following the concepts of digital cash and encryption, since I read the article in the August 1992 issue of Scientific American on "encrypted signatures." While I've only followed the Digitaliberty area for a few weeks, I can already see a number of points that do (and (rest of essay clipped) ---------------------------