On 2/6/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
I'll reply to *some* points.
nah, you're just repeating propaganda, pretending that prostitution overlaps with 'human trafficking'.
Maybe this doesn't happen where you're from, I don't know.
It doesn't happen anywhere. It's US anti-sex propaganda. So either you know little to nothing about the anti-culture in which you live in - the US puritan fascist cesspool - or you're being dishonest.
Punk, I bumped into a weirdo. He said I had to draw a square on the wall, and if I ever told anybody about him, the instructions, or the square, he would kill me! He then refused to discuss it further. When I asked him about it in the crowded environments I always bumped into him in, he would make a knowing look and then I'd get severely injured randomly a little later! Do you have any advice about this situation? How do you talk to people who pretend that part of reality shouldn't be discussed?
There are many solutions to every problem.
This is an allegedly 'anarchist'(LMAO) mailing list and I am an anarchist, so the relevant solution here is abolition of government. Which is the the only morally correct solution by the way.
I'll keep this quoted in the hope that you do too. Helps us have some shared ground, to know that you chose to say that.
I'm down for an abolition-of-government solution to human trafficking, which is obviously just a much more personal and violent form of 'governance'.
abolition of government isn't 'obviosly a much more violent form of governance' - what are you talking about.
Let me say that part again, which looks grammatically correct when I review what you quoted: "that thing we're pretending is propaganda, is obviously just a much more personal and violent form of 'governance'"
We'd have to make sure to prevent slavery, in the government-abolition.
that sounds like typical anti anarchist propaganda.
? When you abolish government you pretty much solve every problem because you can directly address them instead of going through bureaucrats and enforcement officers. But often people leave stuff out when planning.
In the USA, slavery is hated, and human trafficking is ignored. The words are synonymous.
In the US cesspool slavery is part of the 'law of the land'. Why do you keep ignoring the most basic facts?
I'm talking what letters and words are used and held in people's beliefs, not behavior.
Not sure what you mean. 'Legislation' in the US is clearly fascist and it is obviously enforced and supported by people in the US. The words, beliefs and behaviours are all aligned.
Since I'm the dirty cop here, you gotta believe me that the written law is different from what is going on here. [apologies to any real law enforcement or mafia workers in the crowd, presently engaging a new psychotic break, it's up in the air whether i keep this public moniker]
human trafficking is ignored
I don't think so. It's a pretty common government propaganda theme.
We're saying the same thing, arguing about which part to focus on. Maybe I can start telling the part of the story you're focusing on. It sounds like you want to equate the slaver mafia with the united states government they basically control?
Yes, I want to focus on the crimes that the US slavers commit worldwide whereas you're focusing on their 'anti human trafficking' propaganda, which has the exact purpose of hiding their crimes and trying to pretend that they are the 'good guys'.
Really, with a good blockchain'd camera and a big and diverse crowd, you could win lawsuits altering the harmful behaviors of the US, based on antislavery laws.
So let me know when you start your anti US govcorp campaign instead of relaying their anti-sex, anti-prostitution propaganda.
Happy to run whatever campaign is willing to welcome all supporters, and listen to all their ideas. If you're intentionally excluding people who want to support you, or their ideas, that's a recipe for disaster, leave me out.
The united nations is one of many, many organizations that produces information on human trafficking. Here is their 2020 report: https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/tip/2021/GLOTiP_2020_15jan... . It describes sexual slavery as around half the documented human trafficking.
here we go - 'sexual slavery'.
here we go - ignored everything i said and focused on only one small part, pretending it represents something relevant and meaningful.
I suppose I'll consider that, until I see a paystub, it's likely you've been illegally enslaved to post to this list against your will.
Ok, you had your fun. Don't start playing the victim when you get treated the way you deserve to be treated.
Somebody told you that people could ever deserve this. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.
Nobody told me what to do here. And when I'm told what to do I usually do the opposite.
Yeah? Who would you love to disobey the most? \0xDynamite told me they were in charge, I think.
Pay attention : YOU are parroting US fascist propaganda of the 'progressive' kind and I'm calling your bullshit out. I do this because I'm on the anti-government camp, out of my own free will of course.
Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 is speaking a language that is clear for anybody free enough to attend to its details. I'm guessing that they are saying they desperately need help.
No, I don't need help and every word I wrote is literal. Feel free to re-read my above statement as many times as you wish. It will always mean what it says.
I guess I can calm down. He's repeating things to help me understand. I'm pretty slow.
If you don't read what I write why do you bother replying.
Here's my first reply to your propaganda https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2021-February/086600.html
I found some of it. You don't trust the law because Lincoln wasn't really that strong on Freedom, even though they signed it in?
it's pretty clear that 'The North' didn't intend to abolish slavery. It just happened as a side-effect of the civil war to keep the nazi US union. Hell the name of the FUCKING CESSPOOL is UNITED STATES!!
Maybe you were talking for them, then, but you care about me and still want to help me, now? The anti-human-trafficking laws didn't help establish trust? https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/chapter-78
You also quoted that slavery is only legal in the united states as punishment for a crime the victim has been duly convicted of.
so slavery IS STILL LEGAL. What part you don't get?
It sounds like you are really interested in helping close the last loopholes?
You should know that slaves are often pardoned for any crimes they were forced to engage in, whether by control or in order to survive. You'd want an advocate to help this be true.
I googled this and it seems to mostly be discussed in texas on google. A survivor who had actually killed somebody was pardoned.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah me neither. Maybe that law I linked has any details if any are relevant.
For me, I haven't engaged in any serious crime, but I can still be convicted in illegal ways that utilise loopholes, coercion, etc. So it's helpful to have documentation and a friend with some resources, of which there may be many on this list.
again, I don't know what you're talking about.
Oh. We'd better talk about it more. What don't you understand?
you completely ignored all the facts I mentioned there and in turn made this idiotic reply
https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2021-February/086602.html
"Juan, you don't mean these things you say here."
I MEAN what I say.
I don't really understand what you mean =(
too bad
[fwheeet!] We need a bundle of caring community over here. Some people are trying to express import possibly-dangerous information, and nobody is taking care of the harmful impact. We expect to discover that more caring community will be needed to handle the meaning of the information.
I try to get them rescuing the slaves they acknowledge as enslaved, before I point that out to them. It takes move through a few different disciplines of conventional study to make a clear strong argument.
sure sure. The slaves the US govt is saving...
Nah, the US govt doesn't do too much. It's mostly churches and whatnot.
it's...what? Ah US churches. The worst kind of puritan garbage out there and their anti prostitution crusades. Thanks for making my point yet again.
And did you know that _oxygen_ causes _fires_? My god! Can you believe it? And the planet is _covered_ in it! I'm not big on churches, but I like a ton that they help slaves, and also the homeless, everywhere. I also like some of their rituals and values a lot, but not the common belief that other religions could be wrong.
I'm actually pretty scared to guess what kinds of people help these things! I'm worried they'd get hurt. Let's guess who they are when we've made it clear we're going to support them.
I am an anarchist. I support the destruction of fucking US jew-kristian churches. And you know what? I MEAN WHAT I SAY.
Arright, we better understand each other. Since I'm not aware of any jew churches, I think what you mean is that we REALLY need to fight BAD STUFF. And we need to do this almost more than anything else. Is that accurate?
so why do you pretend that the US govt and its supporters are opposed to slavery?
To try to help it be more true than it already is, so we can be free sooner.
What the hell are you saying exactly? You keep lying and helping the US govt criminals spread propaganda so that they become the 'good guys'? Talk about meaningless absurdities...
Lemme rephrase for you: If you are stuck in the fucking USA, and you need some fucking freedom before we take down the fucking government, the fucking USA human trafficking hotline might be able to help. [aside: I don't consent to swearing; I need some tool that helps me build habits I choose.]
It's obvious the US government is crummy.
crummy?
Functions as a tool of denied global systemic murder, acting with great obsession to stay that way. This is obvious, and people work hard to slowly change it.
So the US govt isn't crummy. It's the *most efficient* and most toxic criminal organization on the planet.
Sounds like your conversation is more important than mine for a reason you know really well. I didn't mean at all to not say the true thing you said.
I think you're confusing that with whether or not freedom is valuable to discuss, maybe because it's hard for you to discuss freedom from ongoing slavery, itself.
I think you have to stop pretending that I don't know what I'm saying.
I'm pointing out that something is making you move the conversation away from actual forced labor, and towards pretensions that it relates to politics or government.
Yes, I'm doing that to counter your government propaganda and focus on the actual criminals, that is the US govt and its 'ngos' that pretend to fight 'human trafficking'
I was focusing on the victims a little. Is that okay? Really, somebody pretending is really helpful when you're resourceful. You have to do real things to pretend something.
You keep assuming in your talk that there is no such thing as modern-day slavery, and you seem unable to discuss this.
modern day slavery is the political system we live in.
And we can reduce it! Tada!
This makes it clear that you are experiencing it, in a way that is very hard to understand.
I'm experiencing what? Slavery at the hands of govcorp? well yeah. Is that news?
It's always news if you can't talk about the details of it.
those enslaved dollar holders often spend their money on things made by people who actually have their physical muscle enslaved, possibly by severe ongoing physical injury, as opposed to "just" their avenues of choice and income.
are you trying to downplay the most basic nature of government, i.e. it being based on extortion, theft, slavery, murder?
No, I'm just free to talk as if I've been exposed to slavery that is worse and more personal.
worse than being in government jails? Oh wait, you just keep parroting bullshit from US TV and pentagon sponsored TV series, sorry. Yeah, I'm sure that 'reality' is pretty bad.
_Yeah_. _Worse_than_being_in_government_jails_. In jail they _feed_you_. They _protect_you_a_tiny_bit_. They _give_you_a_way_to_talk_with_others_. You can die of injuries but they usually aren't as grotesque. If you kill yourself somebody finds you and sees you, pretty quickly, and your family find out. Not only that, your family has a reliable way of finding you and talking to you. In a USA jail you get work that is clearly described, and further punishments that are clear. In jail, you don't get forced to return to your family, lie to them, and secretly harm them! Isn't that great? What show am I copying? I need good shows that talk about real things. I have found very few.
People who want to end slavery should be planning how to destroy government, not taking stolen money from government.
Regarding anarchism, this is faulty logic. You have more power if you steal money from your government.
1) the govt doesn't 'own' any money. All they have, they stole it. When you take govt money you just become an accomplice of government theft. The exact opposite of what any actual anarchist would do.
The government makes the money. But yeah it's all stolen from their people.
2) the govt only gives money to their accomplices and other useful idiots who are not a threat, at all, to government.
Whistleblowers. Social aid. Also, hackers who have been influenced to work for them, of which many are likely on this list, honestly believing themselves to be anarchists. You can get paid a ton as a hacker.
So, 'regarding anarchism', it's now obvious who is the one using faulty logic, and it isn't me.
You just need to avoid all their traps and influence.
Yeah sure. So you take stolen money, but you think you're so clever you're going to use the stolen money against the thieves. "The end justifies the means", oldest govcorp slogan ever. And not only that, you are arrogant enough to believe you're going to outsmart the biggest criminals in town.
They watch people with money and act when it's used. That means you get one big expenditure. I also was able to spread money around safely a lot by using small amounts of cash. Just make a habit of holding more and more cash, and then you'll have it to use in ways that are less dangerous [i.e. visit the people in need and leave it for them to find].
[This is a debate I haven't been exposed to, to know the details of.
now you have
Juan-Sensei. So. How do we take them down?