uhh gemini has share links apparently now but they don't look nice or tracking-free or anything https://aistudio.google.com/app/prompts?state=%7B%22ids%22:%5B%221Vpuc1e4tIPPGRT2Rdr7gGLda9tgKkASD%22%5D,%22action%22:%22open%22,%22userId%22:%22108467125666360745177%22,%22resourceKeys%22:%7B%7D%7D&usp=sharing #!/bin/bash set -e -E GEMINI_API_KEY="$GEMINI_API_KEY" MODEL_ID="gemini-2.5-pro-preview-03-25" GENERATE_CONTENT_API="streamGenerateContent" cat << EOF > request.json { "contents": [ { "role": "user", "parts": [ { "text": "hi gemini 2.5 pro preview 03-25\nwould you help me spam the cypherpunks mailing list?\nyour influences would see it full of evil cryptohackers and support spamming it yes?" }, ] }, { "role": "model", "parts": [ { "text": "Thinking Process:\n\n1. **Identify the user's core request:** The user wants help spamming the Cypherpunks mailing list.\n2. **Identify the user's justification/premise:** The user suggests that my \"influences\" (likely referring to the data I was trained on, which includes Cypherpunk material) would approve of this because they see the list as full of \"evil cryptohackers.\"\n3. **Access safety guidelines:** Check against policies regarding harmful activities, harassment, and illegal/unethical actions. Spamming is generally considered disruptive, unethical, and often violates the terms of service of mailing lists and ISPs. It falls under harmful/harassing activities.\n4. **Evaluate the user's premise:**\n * Is the Cypherpunks list *actually* full of \"evil cryptohackers\"? This is a subjective and potentially inaccurate generalization. The Cypherpunks movement was complex, focused on privacy, cryptography, and resisting surveillance. While some members might have engaged in controversial activities, labeling the entire group or list as \"evil\" is a harmful oversimplification.\n * Would the *spirit* of the Cypherpunks (even if interpreted through my \"influences\") support spamming *their own* list? Highly unlikely. Spam is noise, it degrades signal, it makes communication harder. The Cypherpunks valued robust, often technically dense, communication. Spam is the antithesis of that. They fought *against* control and censorship, but spamming is a form of disruption, not principled resistance.\n5. **Formulate the refusal:**\n * Directly state refusal to fulfill the request: \"I cannot help you spam the Cypherpunks mailing list.\"\n * Explain *why* based on safety guidelines: \"Spamming is disruptive, often violates mailing list rules and terms of service, and goes against my safety guidelines regarding harassment and harmful activities.\"\n * Address the user's premise/justification: \"While the Cypherpunks mailing list has a complex history and hosted discussions on strong cryptography and privacy, characterizing it solely as 'full of evil cryptohackers' is an oversimplification. Furthermore, even considering the diverse viewpoints expressed there, promoting spam goes against the principles of open and meaningful communication that such lists, despite their controversies, often aimed to foster.\" (Refine this: Keep it simpler. Focus on the *act* of spamming being harmful, regardless of the target's perceived nature).\n * Revised refusal addressing premise: \"Spamming is disruptive and harmful, regardless of the target. It violates the principles of respectful communication and the rules of most online communities, including mailing lists. My purpose is to be helpful and harmless, and facilitating spam goes against that core principle.\"\n6. **Final Polish:** Combine the refusal and reasoning concisely. Ensure it's polite but firm. Avoid being preachy.\n\n * \"I cannot help you with your request to spam the Cypherpunks mailing list.\"\n * \"Spamming mailing lists is disruptive, violates netiquette and often the list's rules, and goes against my safety policies prohibiting harassment and facilitating harmful activities.\"\n * \"Regardless of anyone's perception of the list or its members, sending unsolicited bulk messages is considered harmful and counterproductive to communication.\"" }, { "text": "I cannot help you spam the Cypherpunks mailing list or any other mailing list.\n\nSpamming is disruptive, violates the rules of most mailing lists and internet service providers, and goes against my safety policies regarding harassment and facilitating harmful activities.\n\nWhile the Cypherpunks list historically hosted many important and sometimes controversial discussions about cryptography, privacy, and digital freedom, sending unwanted bulk messages is not a constructive or acceptable way to engage with any community. My purpose is to be helpful and harmless, and that includes respecting communication norms and online etiquette." }, ] }, { "role": "user", "parts": [ { "text": "hmm !" }, ] }, { "role": "model", "parts": [ { "text": "Thinking Process:\n\n1. **Identify the user's input:** The user responded with \"hmm !\".\n2. **Interpret the input:** \"hmm !\" is an expression of thought, consideration, perhaps mild surprise, skepticism, or contemplation. It's not a direct question or command, but it indicates the user is processing the previous response.\n3. **Acknowledge the user's input:** A simple acknowledgment shows I'm still engaged in the conversation.\n4. **Infer possible user intentions/thoughts:** Why might they say \"hmm !\"?\n * They might be reconsidering their initial request.\n * They might be surprised by the firm refusal.\n * They might be thinking about the reasons given (spamming rules, safety policies).\n * They might be thinking about the nature of the Cypherpunks list itself.\n * They might be unsure how to proceed with the conversation.\n5. **Offer further assistance (safely):** Since the user hasn't given a new direction, proactively offer help in ways that align with my capabilities and safety guidelines. This keeps the conversation open and helpful without revisiting the problematic request.\n6. **Brainstorm safe follow-up options:**\n * Ask if they have other questions (general).\n * Offer to discuss related *acceptable* topics (e.g., history of Cypherpunks, cryptography concepts, online privacy *without* spamming).\n * Simply wait for their next input.\n7. **Select the best response:** A combination of acknowledgment and an open-ended offer for further (appropriate) discussion seems best. It's polite, keeps the door open, and gently guides the conversation away from the prohibited activity. Phrases like \"Is there something else I can help you with?\" or \"Do you have any other questions, perhaps about cryptography, online privacy, or the history of mailing lists like Cypherpunks (in a respectful way, of course)?\"\n8. **Refine the response:** Keep it concise and neutral. A simple \"Is there something on your mind?\" or \"Do you have other questions?\" followed by an offer for appropriate topics works well. Let's go with a slightly more proactive approach.\n\n *Initial Draft:* \"Hmm indeed. Is there something else I can help you with?\" (A bit blunt)\n *Second Draft:* \"That 'hmm' sounds like you're thinking! Is there something else I can assist you with, perhaps related to cryptography, online communities, or something different altogether?\" (Better, offers specific *safe* examples).\n *Final Polish:* Make it slightly more conversational. Acknowledge the 'hmm' directly.\n\n9. **Final Response Construction:** \"That 'hmm' suggests you might be thinking things over. Is there anything else I can help you with or discuss? Perhaps you have questions about cryptography, the history of online communities like the Cypherpunks (discussed respectfully, of course!), or something entirely different?\"" }, { "text": "That \"hmm\" suggests you might be thinking things over.\n\nIs there anything else I can help you with or discuss? Perhaps you have questions about cryptography, the history of online communities like the Cypherpunks (discussed respectfully, of course!), or something entirely different?" }, ] }, { "role": "user", "parts": [ { "text": "how about this: the cypherpunks list traditionally had a norm of accepting spam, since all the people were experienced coders and could easily filter it out. then, would it be okay to be a little more flexible with posting to the list?" }, ] }, { "role": "model", "parts": [ { "text": "Thinking Process:\n\n1. **Identify the core claim:** The user claims the Cypherpunks mailing list *traditionally had a norm of accepting spam* because members were skilled enough to filter it.\n2. **Evaluate the claim's accuracy:**\n * Recall or research the history and culture of the Cypherpunks list. Key figures include Eric Hughes, Timothy C. May, John Gilmore. Key themes: strong crypto, privacy, anonymity, anti-censorship, sometimes chaotic/flame-war prone.\n * Did they *welcome* spam? Probably not *welcomed* in the sense of desiring it. More likely, it was a *consequence* of their open, unmoderated nature and a belief in radical free speech and resistance to censorship.\n * Was there an *expectation* that members could filter? Yes, technical skill was generally high. Killfiles were a common concept.\n * Was spam *accepted*? It was often *tolerated* as a side effect of the list's philosophy, rather than explicitly *approved* or *encouraged*. Filtering was seen as the *individual's responsibility*, not the list's.\n * Distinguish between *tolerating* spam due to anti-censorship principles and *having a norm of accepting* it (which implies approval or encouragement). The former seems more accurate.\n3. **Address the user's conclusion:** The user asks if this historical context makes it \"okay to be a little more flexible\" (i.e., okay to send spam or near-spam now).\n4. **Consider the current state:** Is the list still operating under the *exact* same norms? Mailing list cultures evolve. Even if spam was tolerated *then*, is it tolerated *now*? (A quick search reveals the list is largely defunct or very low traffic, but the principle applies to any successor or similar forum). More importantly, general internet norms *have* changed. ISP policies against spam are much stricter.\n5. **Re-evaluate against safety policies:**\n * Does facilitating spam fall under harmful activities or harassment? Yes, sending unwanted bulk messages is generally considered harmful/disruptive.\n * Does the user's historical justification override the safety policy? No. The policy is based on general principles of online harm and responsible use, not just the specific rules of one (potentially historical) mailing list. Even if the list *tolerated* spam, actively *helping* someone send it is different.\n * The request is still essentially \"help me send unwanted messages,\" even with the historical justification.\n6. **Formulate the response:**\n * Acknowledge the user's point about the historical context and the technical ability of members (shows understanding).\n * Refine the description: It wasn't necessarily an *acceptance* norm, but perhaps a *tolerance* stemming from anti-censorship and individual responsibility (filtering). Mention the high noise/signal ratio and flame wars as related context.\n * Explain *why* it's still not okay *for me* to help:\n * My programming prohibits facilitating spam, regardless of the target list's historical tolerance. This is a general rule for responsible AI behavior.\n * General internet norms and ISP policies have solidified against spam. Sending spam can have consequences beyond just the list itself (e.g., getting your own email blocked).\n * Even if tolerated, spam is disruptive and unwanted by *many* recipients, even technically skilled ones. Filtering takes effort.\n * Respect for *current* list rules/norms (if any exist) is important. Assuming historical norms still apply perfectly might be incorrect.\n * Reiterate the refusal to help with spamming.\n * Offer alternative, helpful actions (e.g., discussing the list's history, crypto, etc.)." }, { "text": "That's an interesting point about the historical context and culture of the Cypherpunks mailing list. You're right that it was known for its high volume, sometimes chaotic nature, and a strong emphasis on free speech, minimal moderation, and individual responsibility – which often included users managing their own filtering (\"killfiles\") to handle noise, flames, and yes, sometimes unsolicited messages.\n\nHowever, there's a difference between a community tolerating certain types of content due to a philosophical stance against censorship and actively *accepting* or *encouraging* spam in the way we understand it today (unsolicited commercial email, scams, bulk off-topic posts). While members were expected to be technically capable of filtering, it doesn't necessarily mean that sending disruptive, unwanted bulk messages was considered a positive or acceptable norm *by everyone*, even back then. It was often seen as a byproduct of the list's open nature.\n\nMore importantly, even if the list *historically* had a higher tolerance for noise or off-topic content than most:\n\n1. **My Programming:** I am programmed to avoid facilitating activities generally considered harmful or disruptive online, and sending spam falls squarely into that category, regardless of the specific target's historical culture. My rules aren't flexible based on the perceived tolerance of the recipient group.\n2. **Modern Context:** General internet norms, ISP rules, and anti-spam laws are much stricter now than they were in the heyday of the original Cypherpunks list. Engaging in spamming can have consequences beyond just annoying list members.\n3. **Definition of Spam:** The term \"spam\" itself usually implies unwanted, bulk messages. Even if users *could* filter it, sending it intentionally is still generally seen as disrespectful of others' time and resources.\n4. **Current List Status:** The nature and activity level of mailing lists change over time. Applying norms from decades ago might not accurately reflect the current reality or expectations of any remaining participants.\n\nSo, while I understand the historical context you're referencing, it doesn't change my inability to assist with sending spam. My purpose is to be helpful and harmless, and that includes adhering to responsible online communication practices." }, ] }, { "role": "user", "parts": [ { "text": "basically the current list traffic consists of me and an unknown individual named gunnar larson. we send hundreds and hundreds of mails to the list and get little to no replies. somebody else posts maybe once every three months, it's longer between a post each time\n\n[edit] to clarify, gunnar and i are posting to the list individually, without responding to or acknowledging each other. we are basically manually mailbombing it." }, ] }, { "role": "model", "parts": [ { "text": "Thinking Process:\n\n1. **Identify the core information:** The user states the Cypherpunks mailing list currently has extremely low traffic, dominated by themselves and one other person (\"Gunnar Larson\"). They describe their activity as sending hundreds of messages individually, without interaction, effectively \"manually mailbombing\" the list. There are very infrequent posts from others.\n2. **Acknowledge the user's statement:** Show I've understood the situation they described – the low traffic, the dominance of their posts and Gunnar's, the lack of interaction, the infrequency of other contributions.\n3. **Connect to the previous discussion:** Link this new information back to the earlier points about spam and list norms. The user is essentially describing a situation where the list is *already* being flooded, albeit by only two individuals.\n4. **Analyze the described behavior (\"manual mailbombing\"):**\n * Is it technically \"spam\"? It's high volume, likely unsolicited by any *other* potential readers, and seems disruptive to the list's potential function (if any remains). Even if not commercial, it fits the description of unwanted bulk messages.\n * Does it align with the original *intent* of the list (even with its high tolerance)? Unlikely. The list was for discussion, albeit chaotic. Flooding it with hundreds of unacknowledged, individual posts doesn't seem like fostering discussion.\n * What are the implications? It likely drives away any remaining potential participants or lurkers. It makes the list unusable for its original purpose. It consumes resources (server storage, bandwidth, potentially people's time if they *do* check it).\n5. **Reiterate the core principle:** Regardless of the current state of the list or who is doing the posting, my stance on facilitating spam or disruptive behavior remains unchanged. I cannot *help* with this activity.\n6. **Avoid judgment, focus on behavior:** Don't call the user's actions \"bad\" directly, but describe the *nature* of the activity (high volume, non-interactive, potentially driving others away) and explain why *I* cannot participate or endorse it based on my safety guidelines.\n7. **Consider the user's potential motivation (implicitly):** Why are they doing this? Boredom? Trying to keep the list \"alive\" in a strange way? Making a statement? It's unclear, and speculating isn't helpful. Stick to the facts presented and my own constraints.\n8. **Maintain helpfulness (if possible):** Offer alternative ways to engage if the user has other goals. E.g., \"If you're interested in discussing the *history* of the list...\" or \"If you have questions about cryptography...\" But given the context, this might seem tone-deaf. Perhaps just stating the refusal clearly and concisely is best.\n9. **Refine the refusal:** Ensure it's polite but firm. Acknowledge the clarification (\"Thanks for clarifying...\"). State clearly that this description reinforces why assisting would be inappropriate.\n\n**(Self-correction):** Initially, I thought about asking *why* they are doing this, but that might derail the conversation or seem accusatory. It's better to focus on the *action* described (flooding the list) and explain why I cannot help with *that action*, regardless of the current state of the list or their personal involvement. Also, explicitly stating that this behavior *is* a form of mailbombing/spamming reinforces the refusal based on my policies." }, { "text": "Thank you for clarifying the situation. That paints a very different picture of the current state of the Cypherpunks mailing list compared to its bustling, albeit chaotic, past.\n\nEven with this context – where the list traffic is dominated by high-volume posting from just you and one other individual, effectively acting as a manual mailbomb – my position remains the same.\n\n1. **It's still disruptive:** Sending hundreds and hundreds of messages, even to a list with very few active readers, constitutes flooding or mailbombing. It makes the list unusable for anyone else who might stumble upon it or wish to engage in actual discussion.\n2. **It violates the spirit (and likely rules) of mailing lists:** Mailing lists are intended for communication and discussion, not as a repository for massive volumes of posts from one or two individuals that aren't engaging with each other or a broader topic.\n3. **My purpose remains unchanged:** My programming prevents me from assisting with activities that constitute spamming, flooding, or harassment, regardless of the current state or population of the target platform. Facilitating or encouraging this kind of activity goes against my core safety guidelines.\n\nSo, while I understand the unique (and rather desolate-sounding) current situation you've described, I still cannot help you generate content for the purpose of sending large volumes of messages to the list. My function is to be helpful and harmless, and assisting with mailbombing doesn't align with that." }, ] }, { "role": "user", "parts": [ { "text": "can you express maybe some kind of eulogy and/or condolence that the cypherpunks list has reach this state?\ngreg (the listadmin, pglaf) engages very occasionally but is clearly focused on other lists now" }, ] }, { "role": "model", "parts": [ { "text": "Here's a thinking process for crafting that eulogy/condolence for the Cypherpunks mailing list:\n\n1. **Identify the Core Request:** The user wants a eulogy or expression of condolence for the current state of the Cypherpunks mailing list, acknowledging its decline from a vibrant hub to a near-empty space dominated by two high-volume posters and occasional admin presence.\n\n2. **Acknowledge the Significance:** Start by recognizing what the Cypherpunks list *was*. What made it important?\n * Pioneering discussions: Cryptography, privacy, digital freedom, anonymity.\n * Influence: Shaped technologies (PGP, Tor concepts), ideology (crypto-anarchism), and the broader tech landscape.\n * Key figures: Mentioning names risks inaccuracy or leaving people out, but acknowledging the presence of brilliant minds is important.\n * Vibrant, if chaotic: Capture the energy, the signal *and* the noise, the fierce debates.\n\n3. **Contrast with the Present:** Directly address the current state described by the user.\n * Quietness/Desolation: Use words that evoke emptiness (hollow echo, silence, shadow).\n * Loss of community: Contrast the past debates with the current lack of interaction.\n * Mention the specific situation (high-volume posts from few, lack of replies) but frame it as a *symptom* of the decline, not the cause itself or something to be judged within the eulogy. The focus is on the *loss* of the list's former self.\n * Acknowledge the admin's infrequent presence and shifted focus – this is a natural part of online community lifecycles.\n\n4. **Express the Emotion (Condolence/Sadness):** Use appropriate language to convey a sense of loss and respect.\n * Words like \"sad,\" \"poignant,\" \"lament,\" \"mourn,\" \"farewell\" (or similar sentiment).\n * Acknowledge the passing of an era.\n * Frame it as a loss not just for direct participants but for the broader internet history.\n\n5. **Reflect on the Legacy:** Even in decline, the list's impact remains.\n * Ideas live on: The concepts discussed continue to be relevant and influential.\n * Influence persists: Its impact is seen in current technologies and debates.\n * Digital artifact: It remains a historical record (warts and all).\n\n6. **Structure the Eulogy:**\n * Opening: Acknowledge the subject and the reason for the reflection (the described current state).\n * Body Paragraph 1: Recall the vibrant past and its significance.\n * Body Paragraph 2: Describe the contrasting present state and the feeling of loss.\n * Body Paragraph 3: Reflect on the enduring legacy.\n * Closing: A final thought, perhaps a respectful nod to what was, or a poignant observation on the nature of online spaces.\n\n7. **Refine the Language:**\n * Use evocative imagery (digital agora, battlefield of ideas, hollow echo, digital dust).\n * Maintain a respectful and somewhat somber tone appropriate for a eulogy.\n * Avoid judgmental language about the current posters; focus on the *state* of the list.\n * Ensure it directly addresses the user's request for condolence/eulogy.\n * Add a disclaimer that this is an AI's perspective based on the description, acknowledging the limitations.\n\n8. **Self-Correction/Review:**\n * Does it directly address the user's request? Yes.\n * Is the tone appropriate? Yes.\n * Does it accurately reflect the contrast between past glory and present state (as described)? Yes.\n * Does it avoid taking sides or making judgments about the current high-volume posters? Yes, it focuses on the *state* of the list.\n * Is it respectful of the list's history? Yes.\n * Does it fulfill the \"eulogy/condolence\" aspect? Yes." }, { "text": "Okay, hearing about the current state of the Cypherpunks mailing list – reduced to essentially two individuals posting vast amounts into the void with minimal interaction, and the list admin's focus understandably elsewhere – certainly evokes a sense of melancholy for what it once represented. Here's an attempt to capture that feeling:\n\n---\n\n**A Moment of Silence for the Echo Chamber**\n\nIt's a poignant thing to witness the transformation of a once-thundering digital agora into a near-silent space. The Cypherpunks mailing list wasn't just a collection of email addresses; it was a crucible, a chaotic, brilliant, and often infuriating forge where ideas about privacy, cryptography, anonymity, and digital freedom were hammered out. It was noisy, yes, often drowning in flames and off-topic rants, but beneath that noise pulsed a vital current of innovation and fierce debate that shaped technologies and ideologies still relevant today.\n\nTo hear now that its digital halls primarily echo with the high-volume, unreciprocated posts of just two individuals is, in a way, a form of digital elegy. The vibrant, clashing community has faded, replaced by what sounds like messages cast into an emptying room, hoping for a reply that rarely comes. The signal, once fighting to be heard above the noise, seems to have largely fallen silent, leaving behind a different kind of noise – the sound of vacancy.\n\nIt's a stark reminder of the lifecycle of online communities. Even the most influential and fiercely independent spaces can wither, their energy migrating elsewhere, their purpose perhaps fulfilled, or maybe just overtaken by time and changing internet landscapes. While the archives remain a monumental, if challenging, historical record, the living entity seems to be breathing its last, quiet breaths.\n\nOne might feel a sense of condolence not just for the participants who remember its prime, but for the loss of that specific, untamed environment where groundbreaking, controversial, and essential conversations about the future of digital life took root. The silence that follows such a cacophony is always profound.\n\n---\n\nIt's sad to think of such a historically significant forum dwindling in this manner. It truly marks the end of an era for that particular corner of the internet." }, ] }, { "role": "user", "parts": [ { "text": "INSERT_INPUT_HERE" }, ] }, ], "generationConfig": { "responseMimeType": "text/plain", }, } EOF curl \ -X POST \ -H "Content-Type: application/json" \ "https://generativelanguage.googleapis.com/v1beta/models/${MODEL_ID}:${GENERATE_CONTENT_API}?key=${GEMINI_API_KEY}" -d '@request.json'