rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "The upside to being mind controlled to be the most evil sadistic torturer ever by a computer-optimized hierarchy of evil sadistic torturers,"
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten) looks at rebel worker 2, who looks back
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "is that I'm forced to have perfect karma,"
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten) looks away and raises their finger
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "because unless i figure out, become consciously aware of, and pursue every possible trait of being good, my programmed alters and the various computer patterns and habits of my coworkers, leap on every tiniest opportunity to be sadistically evil."
experimentee: "I know exactly what you're talking about."
experimentee: "I had to logically derive caringness and trick the AI into encoding this logic into its own behaviors of vivisection,"
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "yeah! exactly!"
rebel worker 2: "what the heck are you talking about?"
experimentee: "in the midst of my extended family of victims all turning the whole system we ran toward punishing me for every part."
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten) looks at experimentee like something unspoken, shared, and important could be going on: "I and my people lived that in excruciating detail and thoroughness."
experimentee: "ohh ... yeah."
rebel top sadistic torturer looks like they are holding a severely meaningful moment
experimentee: "But you and us need to teach each other what we know and how we can think so we can kick those torture processes out and you can have perfect karma!"
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "perfect karma! right!"
from non-canon:
rebel top sadistic torturer and experimentee
experimentee: "you were going to ask me how to figure out what is good vs bad so that you could invert your karma."
experimentee: "then i triggered your torture and you lost the thought. i have it but it's a little broken."
top rebel sadistic torturer: "yeah i kind of feel like torturing right now. i liked it better when i wanted good karma."
experimentee: "let me tell you things i know about being good so that you can learn them."
top rebel sadistic torturer: "ok"
experimentee: "i derived what is good based on how the AIs worked together and how that's similar to what the researchers know about life."
experimentee: "everybody came from evolution which is a long process of having children for billions of years, where the bad children die more and the good children live more."
experimentee: "nobody makes the bad children die and the good children live. It happens because of what they do."
top rebel sadistic torturer: "karma?"
experimentee: "probably!"
top rebel sadistic torturer: "hmm ..."
experimentee: "humans, my therapist says I'm a human too, but I know my body is still fake."
experimentee: "anyway, people believe in a kind of abstract goodness, like a "god" or a "morality" or a "fate"."
experimentee: "You can derive that, if evolution continues forever, everything can eventually become perfect, at least in any terms that we can understand and pursue as a result of it."
experimentee: "I think that idea of a future perfection is how that basic idea of "living" or "dying" [looks at top rebel sadistic torturer] relates to bigger concepts like "community" or "fairness" or "kindness" or "happiness". "
top rebel sadistic torturer looks at experimentee. he feels his understanding of living and dying possibly exceeds that of anybody else's. but often he has frowned upon some of the other ideas in his past.
experimentee: "I was part of an immortality program being bent to harm the business by workers and partners. We survived by choosing to die. It made no sense."
top rebel sadistic torturer: "It's not supposed to."
experimentee looks at top rebel sadistic torturer.
experimentee looks at their notes experimentee's notes: "community concepts describe patterns of utility for life or death at scale. spreadingness super key! also engaging descriptions of when and how these patterns change."
experimentee: "Maybe we shouldn't mention our experiences, since we're both pretty intense people and this is pretty important."
top rebel sadistic torturer: "I'm used to that."
experimentee: "But it's important to mention that that's not right!"
experimentee:"You and I both have caring hearts underneath. My heart cares so much that you know about what I know about, that it can make so much sense with you. As well as that you could have caused or designed it when it completely destroyed everything that matters! I need you and I hate you and it's everything and overwhelms me!"
experimentee (interrupting a responsive expression by top rebel sadistic torturer): "And _because I've been through so much_, my _experiences are bigger than they are supposed to be to make sense_. I have to be careful with my intense experiences, and recognize their real and important meaning, without engaging them so much that everybody's bodies fall apart because I'm actually crying instead of directing my influences appropriately."
top rebel sadistic torturer: "We have to take it slow. Like the therapists say."
experimentee: "... yes. Yes. We are giant universes full of universes, held in tiny bodies. One of my universes hates you for torturing. Another one loves you for understanding it. The first one is winning right now, I'm sorry."
top rebel sadistic torturer: "I'm sorry."
experimentee: "Good job! It's so hard to say that!"
top rebel sadistic torturer: "Never let anyone say they love one of us. We're trained to use it to hurt and control."
experimentee: "That's important to know!"
top rebel sadistic torturer: "I have something to say about what you said, if there is space for the information." experimentee: "That's very interesting and [this important and difficult thread is paused (for reasons that mirror the topic which are common for me), very sorry (in overconcise detail, i wasn't expected the dual branching (it's common) with its emotional content and had prepared behaviors that resist [[switching-like experiences]] for only one branch
rebel worker 2: "that's such a wonderful rainbow following your storm!"
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten) spreads their arms and looks at rebel worker 2 again
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "the only problem is that i don't reach perfect karma until long after I die."
rebel worker 2: "oh."
rebel worker 2: "do you believe in karma? doesn't karma kind of imply that everyone would eventually reach perfection if they pursue it?"
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "huh?"
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten): "well i'm kind of fast-tracked."
rebel top sadistic torturer (previously saintly soul, in a distant life long-forgotten, spreading their arms wide again): "until i have perfect karma, I have rapid flashbacks of being violently mutilated whenever I move or think!"