Tim Throws a "Leaner" / Re: Tim Speaks the Truth / Re: Tim Misfires / Re: Joichi Ito as a Junior Policeman
Joichi Ito wrote:
As for Tim's message... I keep worrying (when I am in Japan) that I'm too radical, so it's nice to hear from someone who is really hardcore to put a wimp like me in my place. ;-P
Actually, when Tim puts someone in what he considers to be their place, it usually involves the purchase of a tombstone. Tim May wrote:
Unlike "Toto," who claims to be "Truthmonger," I speak the truth.
"Am I Toto, dreaming I am TruthMonger, or TruthMonger, dreaming I am Toto?"
At 5:12 AM -0700 8/3/97, Joichi Ito wrote:
so they probably are pretty militaristic), Japan does not have the equivalent of the NSA. It really is in Japanese national security interests
Wise up, Joichi. You live in society more totalitarian than anything we fear.
Japanese society has long been very rule-oriented, in large part as a result of the country's geography, population and history. A "No Farting" sign which might reek of totalitarianism when placed on the open range, might well seem less so when placed in a two-man tent occupied by six people. Environment, geography and the history of a a country, society and its people, all play a part in the degree to which an individual will view their personal position in regard to the society and government around them. And each will perceive the way in which they feel they can best promote their beliefs within their society and government.
Japanese citizen-units under video surveillance and afraid to speak out.
It seemed to me that after Jim Bell's arrest, most of the posts to the list posted an almost-standard disclaimer: "Actually, although I hardly knew the man, thought he was a _loon_, and _disagreed_ with most of what he had to say..."
And surveillance and espionage technology deployed by your fascist government--a term I mean literally, not casually--will worsen things dramatically. The only "cooperation" with them is to seek their annihilation.
Government aside, if I was forced by fate to live in Japan, my first act would probably be to annihilate 80% of the population, just to get enough elbow room to negate the need for so damn many rules, both from society and government. Of course, the same could probably be said for New York City, from my persepective.
And nothing but mischief will come out any meetings with government on "crypto policy," as their goals can never be our goals. At least in the U.S., despite obvious flaws, we have a "Congress shall make no law" provision which _tends_ to make government meddling in speech, such as meddling in crypto, more difficult.
I hope that the "flag" Tim is wrapping himself in isn't the same one that he was burning yesterday. {Not that I'm accusing Tim of being purposely deceitful. It's just that when we throw a "leaner" instead of a "ringer," they sometimes lean in opposite directions.} Seriously, I believe in the original goals of organizations such as the EFF and CDT, etc, but I also believe that their leaders should be assassinated every few years in order to allow the promotion of people whose senses are not so hardened by D.C. that they no longer recognize a "stench" when they smell it. (ibid, the Constitution and our beloved Legislators.) Joichi Ito sounds very sincere about his commitment to act in a way he feels will promote cypherpunkish viewpoints within his system of government. I can't help but believe, however, that his efforts will ultimately only serve to delay the creeping spread of tyrannical cancer in our societies and our governments. I tend to lean more toward Tim's viewpoint, that there comes a point when the best option is surgery (a radical Legislat-ectomy?), but I would not go so far as to suggest that others should not pursue other treatments which they think may stem the tide of the disease. I hope Joichi Ito paid enough attention to the OKC bombing to realize that some surgeons are less skilled than others, and that there is a risk in remaining too long in close proximity with cancerous tissue. DreamMonger "There's something wrong when I'm a TruthMonger under an increasing number of personas."
At 8:46 PM -0700 8/3/97, Anonymous wrote:
Joichi Ito wrote:
As for Tim's message... I keep worrying (when I am in Japan) that I'm too radical, so it's nice to hear from someone who is really hardcore to put a wimp like me in my place. ;-P
Actually, when Tim puts someone in what he considers to be their place, it usually involves the purchase of a tombstone.
Actually, the trick is to avoid having the body discovered. What goes into the 10 h.p TroyBilt Chipper/Shredder comes out not needing any kind of tombstone at all. Not that I have ever advocated killing mere folks like Joichi with whom I disagree strongly. (A new quote: "Killfiles don't need tombstones.") As for Joichi's message quoted above, he should hope to hell that he wakes up and realizes that not even in Japan can journalists--which is what I thought he once was, or claimed to be--serve on Ministry committees to decide how citizen-units may communicate! Any journalist in Europe or in the U.S. would be seen as having irreparably compromised his journalistic objectivity by serving on such a panel! And properly so, of course. Joichi is of course free to compromise his would-be journalistic standards as he wishes. We are, of course, equally free to severely criticize this and to notify "Wired" and other such outlets of his stuff. (How long do you think Brock Meeks could keep whatever reputation he now has if he served as a consultant to the National Security Agency?)
Japanese society has long been very rule-oriented, in large part as a result of the country's geography, population and history. A "No Farting" sign which might reek of totalitarianism when placed on the open range, might well seem less so when placed in a two-man tent occupied by six people. Environment, geography and the history of a a country, society and its people, all play a part in the degree to which an individual will view their personal position in regard to the society and government around them. And each will perceive the way in which they feel they can best promote their beliefs within their society and government.
Whatever. A good friend of mine just got back from 10 years in Japan (Tsukuba and Tokyo), and has filled me in on the "nail that stands up" stuff. It's hackneyed. The point is, if Joichi Ito wants to ever be taken at all seriously, as a reasonable objective reporter of what is happening, his co-opting by the Japanese Self Defense Forces, Chobetsu, etc., for this "committee" on crypto policy, must be scrutinized, and almost certainly criticized.
It seemed to me that after Jim Bell's arrest, most of the posts to the list posted an almost-standard disclaimer: "Actually, although I hardly knew the man, thought he was a _loon_, and _disagreed_ with most of what he had to say..."
Actually, more people were openly discussing his ideas than before. I, for one, never dismissed the ideas. I think his ideas are derivative (cf. my entire sections in the 3-year-old Cyphernomicon, for example). And his idiosyncratic way of presenting them ("Something _wonderful_ is about to happen!," "I have an idea") gave the appearance that he was close to being a loon, if not actually one. Personally, I see nothing to be gained in the bigger scheme of things by targetting the Portland office of the IRS, for example. Nor do I think his "Assassination Politics" market would work in the way Bell claimed it would: many pointed this out, and Bell never seriously responded (that I can recall, but, then, I deleted many of his posts). This has nothing to do with your presumptive point, that we were frightened by the IRS and other LEA actions and then sought to distance ourselves from Bell's idea. Nothing could be further from the truth. I, for one, have made it clear that I will not inform on Bell, or answer LEA questions unless subpoenaed or charged. (And possibly not even then. I have not been a co-conspirator of Bell's, and any questioning of me can be done at my standard consulting rates. I am willing to be an "expert witness" on some topics, if my schedule is free.)
And nothing but mischief will come out any meetings with government on "crypto policy," as their goals can never be our goals. At least in the U.S., despite obvious flaws, we have a "Congress shall make no law" provision which _tends_ to make government meddling in speech, such as meddling in crypto, more difficult.
I hope that the "flag" Tim is wrapping himself in isn't the same one that he was burning yesterday. {Not that I'm accusing Tim of being purposely deceitful. It's just that when we throw a "leaner" instead of a "ringer," they sometimes lean in opposite directions.}
Utter bullshit. I have cited the First, Second, and other provisions of the Constitution for the 5 years of this list. That I would prefer an even more anarchistic, market-oriented system than we now have, or that I dislike the hundreds of thousands of laws passed over the last 50 years, is no reason not to use the protections of the Constitution. And the line between an anarchocapitalist and a strict constuctionist is fine indeed. Anyone who thinks this is "deceitful" is probably one of those folks who says, "Oh, yeah, well if you dislike government why don't you just refuse to drive on public roads? Some people are just born stupid. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
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