From: uri@watson.ibm.com Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 09:10:16 -0500 (EDT)

Wrong again. There was no "proto-DES". From Lucifer to DES took a few years and significant redesign, but NSA didn't help (however they sure as hell wanted to keep updated on what was going on, so we were telling them [or rather - the team who designed it,'cause I joined later on :-]).

Are you saying that IBM developed DES entierly on their own? This doesn't fit my model at all. But, I'm not afraid to be wrong.

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Learn something new every day...

Please do! (:-)

Gladly! Please tell (learn) me: what was the history of the development of DES. How were DES, IBM, NSA, NIST (then NBS), and FIPS related? Wasn't there some concern on IBM's part about liability -- Thus the us Governments participation, including the 'secret' changes to DES?

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Since about 1977 I wondered what the 'rediscovered crypto techniques' were.

Will you bet your ass it was the only technique in consideration?

Why would I do that? j'