-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In the snake oil controversy, I see a couple of issues... There are some people/companies out there who have the attitude that they have some sort of "remarkable achievement in the field of cryptography". In fact, it is SO remarkable that they do not have to submit to any sort of peer review or examination by people with more skill in the field than themselves. Some of this can be explained by being too close to the problem to see any of the flaws. Most of it can be attributed to ego. These people are pretty much hopeless. They can be a great source of entertainment and/or flame fest practice, but rarely do they ever learn by their mistakes. Their ego gets in the way far to often. (IPG Sales (any relation to "Soupy"?) is a prime example of this.) There are companies out there that are trying to build good products. These people can be instructed on the ways of implementing good crypto. Unfortunately, I have seen a number of them pushed up against the "Wall of Attitude" when they do ask for help. Cypherpunks, for good or for bad, have a reputation for being experts in the field. People come here to ask questions because "Cypherpunks know what Good Crypto tastes like". What is happening though is that they are also getting a reputation as people who flame first and give answers later, if ever. This is not a "good thing". If you want strong crypto to exist, you have to make the people who are trying to put it into place able to understand what it is in the first place. Giving them grief when they try to find out the flaws in the ideas (and are willing to learn) is not helpful to the community as a whole. I know of one developer who is trying to implement a strong cryptosystem in his app. He is unwilling to post his questions/concerns here because he is afraid of getting his ass shot off on the first query. Judging by some of the responses I have seen, I do not blame him! I can understand intolerance of the sales droids who push crap. I do not have much tolerance for them either. It bothers me when I see people who are not experts in the field AND ARE TRYING TO LEARN getting "blowed up real good" because they are not experts. Cypherpunks not only need to teach, they need to be willing to teach. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMS4xFOQCP3v30CeZAQEUlwf/SpOqOAnhk/8jZcQrH0IgDHtMgyUtjdIh b3URbqcIpfff6qQm8dT8/bbmEsGxavoYKC8xO6H5fiLtw2TRqaFYLsQX+JyYBurd lW7k+llMtGqRdthOPBjhVthTEnncVMhqqlT4E0axhhZMWPYNvW3h+NRjiDJSBFEl CFXe1MgiYt3wMlwJLu7Xqwem1zDT4Jmx3h2mx4ULeyvbKyM1ZkZZPe6vBuTgrgBN DaVw8204nc5vIO1LjTr2eY2zfwQToEVOlXlg3IgXtzmTz0eA0mFGoG/klapWKXcQ PSGFrWBhf0fmA488z2DlboiA6Q/HaxAQ4SR9sZ05CUKT1CKgGYX+Lg== =FY3m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- Alan Olsen -- alano@teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "I, Caligula Clinton... In the name of the Senate and the people of Rome!" - Bill Clinton signing the CDA with the First Amendment bent over.