paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk writes:

...

...

...

My perfectly crypto-relevant article regarding possible attacks on human relationships with the use of forged mail and anonymous remailers, has been tossed out (sorted) into cypherpunks-flames mailing list.

I don`t think I read the article (even though I subscribe to the unmoderated list), can you forward me a copy. As I understand it though, from other comentaries, it was junked because it was in response to a message by Dimitri who, given that it is Sandy that is moderating the list, is no doubt filtered by different criteria than anyone else on the list, in my opinion a censorous and fascist restraint as Dimitri has recently been posting more crypto relevant material, besides which whatever the content of his posts they should be open to review before a decision is made on if they are to be junked or not.

Has Paul reversed his previous pro-censorship stand and decided to learn something about crypto from people who actually know some?

There is no change of stance needed, I happen to believe you are knowledgable about cryptography and sometimes post worthwhile commentary and information, however, you also post a lot of dreck and flammable material which means I respond in kind. That does not mean I believe you, or anyone else, should be censored.

I distinctly recall how Paul used to call for censoring me. If he's changed his mind and really doesn't think that anyone should be censored, it's a welcome development - even if it was brought on by the sandfart censoring Paul.

...

...

...

Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy.

Yes Sandy, please enlighten us, what is the criterion you use to moderate the list if not crypto-relevancy. I suspect an element of self preservation and protection of the list fuhrer and diktat maker John Gilmore (who, until the disgraceful incident with Dimitri commanded some respect on this list).

I used to respect Gilmore until this series of incidents (unsubscribing me, turning list moderated). Now I only have disdain for him.

I agree entirely, Gilmore was a respected man (despite the EFF being a corporate whore) who threw any respect and admiration others had for him away.

I wonder what he thinks he got in exchange...

...

...

...

I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy the current readership.

I don`t think this is the point, John Gilmore is free to appoint whoever he wants to moderate his list, he is free to censor all messages which criticise him and his censorship, however, subscribers to the list should be told they are being censored on these grounds and not on some facade of "crypto relevancy" or another thin veil drawn weakly over content based censorship to protect a certain class of list members.

Quite a few people have expressed interest in re-creating an unmoderated cypherpunks list at another site if Gilmore decided to stick to his "moderation experiment".

I notice and appreciate the quotes around "moderation experiment", this is, without doubt, a permenant measure to silence members of the list who dare to offer criticism of anyone an element of {x: x a friend or co-censor of John Gilmore}

Yes - clearly the personality of the submitter is the most important factor in moderator's rejections, not even the content.

I do not have the resources to run such an unmoderated list but I hope someone on this list does and is good enough to start such a list, cypherpunks is a shell of what it once was.

I notice that the sandfart has been challenging his enemies to create an alternative mailing list. I wonder what their contingency plan is. Without a doubt, such a competing list would be mailbombed and flooded with garbage by Gilmore and his entourage. What else?

Also, please note this message will be junked onto cypherpunks-flames even though it contains no flames or flame bait because it dares to criticise the censorship of the list (once again Sandy, I give you an opportunity to prove me wrong).

The sandfart has proven me right already. As I said, I think we're paying too much attention to him and his censorship, and he's just a front for Gilmore anyway. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps