Re: KC is an Idiot
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 09:09 AM 11/17/97 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote:
You quite clearly don't know what you are talking about, little boy. My Dad got me my first gun when I was around 8, 40 some years ago. By the time I was your emotional age (12) I knew that guns weren't toys.
Well, you got the edge on me there; I got my first when I was 12, but my dad let me shoot his .357 Magnum when I was 7. I recall a period of time when some punks were following me around because I had ratted on one of their friends. I got tired of it, got a B-27 silhouette target, and shot out the X-ring with my Para-Ordnance P10.45. I nailed the used target to my front door, and started wearing a fanny pack, and it was amazing how the punk sightings diminished dramatically. I never even had to draw my gun--all I had to do was convince them I carried one and was willing to use it effectively if necessary. Of course, if you would rather be shot than live with the consequences of shooting someone that is your choice. But saying that having a gun wouldn't make a difference is pretty ignorant--it can make a HUGE difference IF you are willing to use it--and pay attention to your surroundings such that you have the gun in hand before you are in the middle of a circle of assholes with drawn weapons. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQEVAwUBNHET0vVLt662DSXhAQE/CAf/Z7rhFGFLS6VFHuXP3/V+LATUh4Syf7Ge g+Fg1FFwf2iV3upBwae7sVTmkv1oQiCYOSo07+Sjl3ot+SsvztztCvFqnUjpFiMg AzQbyG8oKaeyv9qZyvMWTveJz2GkoqFX0MFnRz5ABpqmDS159hCxvs62dMzuo9+X 0mXZA4KLMoXsxiBBKGpwDJr8llcb6eQfaIw1FthZ+lzxrgVFDIl3O5/XyzfH+UPP 4CFf109B+knFIcpAIdQiS9ZQoNZcWTX247kqOm244fk76gluAGy0skT9l1FMCvbG 8LrlKvyO0ZWR39q6fDSPyoD+/os5/9B7oPY7vK71KkwRe3XtiNjneA== =sgBM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com
On Tue, Nov 18, 1997 at 08:26:05AM -0800, Jonathan Wienke wrote:
At 01:13 AM 11/18/97 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote:
There are many circumstances that don't involve a circle of assholes with drawn weapons. Perhaps you have a job that allows you to carry a gun; most don't. Perhaps you drive with your weapon on your lap, and are always on the lookout for snipers; but I doubt it. Maybe you have eyes in the back of your head, and can read people's minds, but I doubt that, too. The cold fact is, Ben, if I wanted bad enough to kill you, you would almost certainly be dead, never knowing it happened. That's not magic -- you could do the same to me, and if you gave 10 minutes thought you would realize this is so.
Ummmm, when was the last time you were robbed or pistol-whipped by a sniper? IIRC, the original context was face to face encounters with larcenous scum, modulo some gratuitous insults. This is kind of a red herring, Kent.
No, the original context was my statement that I had been robbed three times at gunpoint, and that having a gun wouldn't have made any difference at the time. Ben wasn't there and doesn't have a clue about the circumstances (of course), but felt free to comment (in essence) that I must be stupid to let someone get the drop on me. That's macho bullshit. There is no perfect defense, and my example was to demonstrate that simple fact. Please note that I didn't say that guns were *always* worthless. So Ben's example of ratting on someone and then packing heat to scare off people who might retaliate is the real red herring. It also obviously demonstrates a certain amount of basic, dealing-with-life kind of cluelessness on his part, for other reasons I won't go into. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
On Mon, Nov 17, 1997 at 08:17:32PM -0700, Benjamin Chad Wienke wrote:
At 09:09 AM 11/17/97 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote:
You quite clearly don't know what you are talking about, little boy. My Dad got me my first gun when I was around 8, 40 some years ago. By the time I was your emotional age (12) I knew that guns weren't toys.
Well, you got the edge on me there; I got my first when I was 12, but my dad let me shoot his .357 Magnum when I was 7.
I recall a period of time when some punks were following me around because I had ratted on one of their friends. I got tired of it, got a B-27 silhouette target, and shot out the X-ring with my Para-Ordnance P10.45. I nailed the used target to my front door, and started wearing a fanny pack, and it was amazing how the punk sightings diminished dramatically.
Sometimes leaving a bloody dogs head on their doorstep works, or putting a few rounds in the side of their car...
I never even had to draw my gun--all I had to do was convince them I carried one and was willing to use it effectively if necessary. Of course, if you would rather be shot than live with the consequences of shooting someone that is your choice. But saying that having a gun wouldn't make a difference is pretty ignorant--it can make a HUGE difference IF you are willing to use it--and pay attention to your surroundings such that you have the gun in hand before you are in the middle of a circle of assholes with drawn weapons.
There are many circumstances that don't involve a circle of assholes with drawn weapons. Perhaps you have a job that allows you to carry a gun; most don't. Perhaps you drive with your weapon on your lap, and are always on the lookout for snipers; but I doubt it. Maybe you have eyes in the back of your head, and can read people's minds, but I doubt that, too. The cold fact is, Ben, if I wanted bad enough to kill you, you would almost certainly be dead, never knowing it happened. That's not magic -- you could do the same to me, and if you gave 10 minutes thought you would realize this is so. All this stuff about always being on guard and being totally aware of your surroundings is silly macho bullshit. And even if it wasn't, it's an braindead empty argument -- if you were always on guard and totally aware of your surroundings you would never need a gun for anything, anyway. And Ben, it's not that I would rather be shot than live with the consequences of shooting someone. If that really were the choice I wouldn't give it a second thought. But that's almost never really the choice. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
At 01:13 AM 11/18/97 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote:
There are many circumstances that don't involve a circle of assholes with drawn weapons. Perhaps you have a job that allows you to carry a gun; most don't. Perhaps you drive with your weapon on your lap, and are always on the lookout for snipers; but I doubt it. Maybe you have eyes in the back of your head, and can read people's minds, but I doubt that, too. The cold fact is, Ben, if I wanted bad enough to kill you, you would almost certainly be dead, never knowing it happened. That's not magic -- you could do the same to me, and if you gave 10 minutes thought you would realize this is so.
Ummmm, when was the last time you were robbed or pistol-whipped by a sniper? IIRC, the original context was face to face encounters with larcenous scum, modulo some gratuitous insults. This is kind of a red herring, Kent. Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`
participants (3)
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Benjamin Chad Wienke -
Jonathan Wienke -
Kent Crispin