Re: AT&T, Clipper, & Saudi Arabia
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Can we please confine paranoia to reasonable areas -- like AT&T's sales of secure phones to the government? The U.S. government has a very long record of pushing American products against foreign competitors, such as Boeing versus Airbus.
I have great respect for you, Steve, but in this case I must humbly disagree with you. The US government does have a very long record of promoting US products for foreign sales, but it is certainly rare for the President himself to get involved so publically. Do you really think that selling 50,000 secure phones would be _that_ attractive to AT&T? It would certainly be attractive to the particular business unit in charge of selling them, but not nearly as attractive as the promise of help in the future.
Of course, there is a quid pro quo here -- but it's Clinton reminding the Saudis about Desert Storm.
Considering that the Saudis paid for a large fraction of the monetary cost of Desert <foo>, and that they have made or attempted to make substantial FMS and civilian purchases from the US, they very well may feel that they have discharged their debt. I think it's reasonable to visualize a conversation in which the administration promised to "help AT&T in the future" in exchange for AT&T's adoption of Clipper. It certainly may not have been as blatant as my satirical letter, but that doesn't make it less plausible. - -Paul - -- Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG | Out the 10Base-T port, through the router, perobich@ingr.com | over the leased line, off the bridge, past Intergraph Federal Systems | the firewall... nothing but net. Of course I don't speak for Intergraph. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLb/UACA78To+806NAQFltgP+ILjjQTG2EOlnj9+csJHC5q8v2cwXwaUo Y5MMShgVShUB4xe3knS6UPShEW2YemGGzvfWWIO+O1hgiXLWKbxclnRB/UCgne4G J+0TJzwZGu6WxD/IEoOMvFkFisJauqpeL4uP7DgaWtAcV5LeBg4mKoTgxGvZaE7i r4nNBLkJdI4= =IB4g -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
paul@poboy.b17c.ingr.com (Paul Robichaux) writes:
Can we please confine paranoia to reasonable areas -- like AT&T's sales of secure phones to the government? The U.S. government has a very long record of pushing American products against foreign competitors, such as Boeing versus Airbus.
I have great respect for you, Steve, but in this case I must humbly disagree with you. The US government does have a very long record of promoting US products for foreign sales, but it is certainly rare for the President himself to get involved so publically.
No it is not. This is the second time Clinton has lobbied the Saudi's in favor of US companies (the first was when he helped McDonnel-Douglass and Boeing get a $6B contract for jet transports.) The other companies competing for the contract were Northern Telecom (Canadian), Siemens AG (Germany), Alcatel NV (France), and Telecom AB L.M Ericsson/NEC (joint Swedish and Japanese venture). As long as the U.S. still has points in the region it seems reasonable for us to use them in favor of US companies, doesn't it? For a full article on the matter check out page B4, col 4 of today's WSJ (which has the PGP article in it so you might want it anyway :) jim
I have great respect for you, Steve, but in this case I must humbly disagree with you. The US government does have a very long record of promoting US products for foreign sales, but it is certainly rare for the President himself to get involved so publically.
No it is not. This is the second time Clinton has lobbied the Saudi's in favor of US companies (the first was when he helped McDonnel-Douglass and Boeing get a $6B contract for jet transports.) The other companies competing for the contract were Northern Telecom (Canadian), Siemens AG (Germany), Alcatel NV (France), and Telecom AB L.M Ericsson/NEC (joint Swedish and Japanese venture). As long as the U.S. still has points in the region it seems reasonable for us to use them in favor of US companies, doesn't it?
"Is too." "Is not." In this case, "rare" is accurate when applied with respect to the long history of US government involvement, not to this particular president; as you point out, this is the second time that Clinton has inserted himself into the loop. It wouldn't be too surprising to see him do it again. However, this sort of intervention *is* rare by past standards. Do you recall any non-FMS contracts where Presidents Bush, Reagan, Carter, or Ford went to bat so overtly for US products? -Paul
I have great respect for you, Steve, but in this case I must humbly disagree with you. The US government does have a very long record of promoting US products for foreign sales, but it is certainly rare for the President himself to get involved so publically.
No it is not. This is the second time Clinton has lobbied the Saudi's in favor of US companies
[Examples]
"Is too." "Is not."
In this case, "rare" is accurate when applied with respect to the long history of US government involvement, not to this particular president; as you point out, this is the second time that Clinton has inserted himself into the loop. It wouldn't be too surprising to see him do it again.
However, this sort of intervention *is* rare by past standards. Do you recall any non-FMS contracts where Presidents Bush, Reagan, Carter, or Ford went to bat so overtly for US products?
In general I dislike the amount of hands on management in this administration. See below.
-Paul
-> Dear AT&T: If you'll roll over for us on Clipper, we will suitably incentivize you. /s/ The Clinton Administration I suppose most of us would consider a $4B contract a "suitable incentive." While there's probably no direct evidence of a quid pro quo, it strikes me as a bit odd that the President is personally intervening in a purely commercial deal. <- It's not odd while the commercial deal impacts domestic, or foreign policy programs, and while Clinton can appropriate agencies for his personal PR programs. If you look at the trend of Clinton leadership back to Little Rock, you can see a trend of misuse, or appropriation of officials for his personal or program use. Be it a law firm, or the NSA or AT&T it doesn't seem that this is anything new. It is, however, disturbing. Look at the goals of the administration with respect to technology. 1> Restrict strong crypto 2> Empower law enforcement with high technology. 3> Regulate the "information superhighway" The stepping stones to get to these points have included: A> Restricting export of strong crypto. B> Restricting or encouraging weak crypto Domestically (Clipper) C> Weaken the will of large telecommunications entities to resist with string incentives and the threat of Regulation (DigiTel '94) D> Make compliance so difficult that it's easier to yield the torch to a government agency. (NIST perhaps?) Now consider the methods: 1> Active frustration of the market. (Bought up AT&T's non clipper phones and destroyed most of them). 2> The use of NSA, the creation of NIST to promote domestic policy and accomplish the stepping stones. 3> The use and empowerment of the FBI at the expense of the CIA under the guise of the crime problem to highlight the "problem" and circumvent the autonomy of intelligence agencies. The methodology is dangerous. If the President can not only use the law enforcement and intelligence agencies to further goals only remotely connected to law enforcement and intelligence, and tie the hands of private corporations before pushing them off the plank, what happens when the goals get even more centralist? At this point it hardly matters that the United States is a "capitalist private sector economy" because the President can interfere when and where he likes in the private sector with relative ease. How did he get here? 50 Years of accretion of power by the State. Will the day come when AT&T, which backbones the majority of communication, including borrowing books from thousands of miles away and sending faxes from the beach, is merely a tool for domestic policy? Hell, it's a tool for domestic policy today. What happens when the PRIVATE largess of phone service (which by then will be much more important than it is today) is interrupted because you haven't paid that traffic ticket? Impossible? States are already taking driver's licenses away for reasons not remotely associated with driving or owning a car. (See that old Wired, can't remember which issue). Is the use of private companies with heavy reliance on government as tools that far off? In 1952 Justice Jackson commented, "The tools belong to the man who can use them." The quote from Napoleon was a cold reference to the inability of the court to empower the Congress unless the Congress would take hold of the reigns, or in his words, "We may say that the power to legislate for emergencies belongs in the hands of Congress, but only if Congress itself can prevent power from slipping through its fingers." _Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer_, 343 U.S. 579 (1952) (Jackson, J.). That was in 1952. The underlying suggestion was that a more powerful President, a President who held the Congress in his hands and dazzled the people with charisma might well wield tools that were outside the conception of the day. [It explains much to say that Truman was in Office] Jackson was wrong. Today we have a President whose every move is questioned. Who is embattled in controversy and conspiracy theories. Who is seen as a proponent of big government and branded a "one termer." A President who cannot grab hold, cannot quite steady himself in the rocking boat, cannot find a safe haven from the press, the people or the legislature, even in his own party. Still, here is a President who wields the tools of private industry and agencies because he can use them. I ask, what will a loved President accomplish with the same tools? -uni- (Dark)
participants (3)
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Black Unicorn -
Jim McCoy -
paul@poboy.b17c.ingr.com