Re: The Utility of Privacy
At 8:03 PM 11/17/1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
Are there similar sources of information calculating privacy risk? I don't think so.
Ah, so let's ignore the risks, on the grounds that we have no idea what they might be, or their magnitude. That's clever. I like that.
The risks are not being ignored. What is there to fear?
Informally, I don't know anybody who has suffered due to a loss of privacy.
Your circle of associations must be limited.
Examples?
My question remains unanswered, probably because privacy isn't worth the effort.
And no one can answer that question but you. Privacy is a personal decision. I'm sure there are many out there who will suffer no harm even if their SSN is published in the Wall Street Journal.
The experience of others has value.
Why, however, fail to take out insurance when the cost is so low? Really it doesn't take much in the way of effort or money to assure one's privacy. (Hint: It's getting cheaper every day in some ways).
Answer: Nearly all of the cost of privacy is concentrated in set up cost. Maintaince costs are minimal once set up has been made. Yet getting over that first hurdle is the biggest leap.
Good. We are getting somewhere.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
Informally, I don't know anybody who has suffered due to a loss of privacy.
Your circle of associations must be limited.
Examples [of people who have suffered due to loss of privacy]?
Phil Zimmermann often tells the story of a woman whose marriage was destroyed by the revelation of a long-past indiscretion. After her husband divorced her, she committed suicide. Any number of celebrities have been stalked, attacked and even killed by obsessed fans who found them through public records. Every year, children and business executives are kidnapped for ransom. The proximate cause of these kidnappings is a breach in privacy about the whereabouts and schedules of the victim. Hitler's gun registration in Germany allowed the Jews to be disarmed. I'm sure you are aware of the ultimate consequences of that little invasion of privacy. The US Post Office co-operated in the identification and imprisonment of people of Japanese ancestry during the second world war. The problem with having a whole lot of private information about you floating around in public is not what damage it can do to you now, but rather the problems it potentially could cause in the future. Just about everyone on this list has been to university. Not long ago, a college education was essentially a death warrant in Cambodia. Prior to that, a degree was considered a good thing there. People saw no reason to hid the fact that they had been in school. Trouble is, things changed. And the trouble today is that things can change now, too. Think about the things that you have publicly done or advocated. Even if they are as legal as church on Sunday NOW, how comfortable will you be about them if there is extreme right or left takeover in the future? Start to get the picture? S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
C'punks,
On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
Informally, I don't know anybody who has suffered due to a loss of privacy.
Your circle of associations must be limited.
Examples [of people who have suffered due to loss of privacy]?
[Sandy's list of examples elided for space]
S a n d y
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And here's a new one from today's (11/18/96) New York Times: For complete story, see: http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/child-pornographer.html On Prison Computer, Files to Make Parents Shiver By Nina Bernstein For two years, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has been looking into a computer programming and telemarketing business that is run by inmates at a Minnesota prison after agents seized child pornography files. -30- The story explains how investiagtors found not just child pornography, but a list of names, ages, personal details ("latchkey kids," "speech difficulties," etc.) of children "most[ly] girls between 3 and 12" alphabetized by town and coded by map coordintates. rgds-- TA (tallard@frb.gov) I don't speak for the Federal Reserve Board, it doesn't speak for me. pgp fingerprint: 10 49 F5 24 F1 D9 A7 D6 DE 14 25 C8 C0 E2 57 9D
On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
The problem with having a whole lot of private information about you floating around in public is not what damage it can do to you now, but rather the problems it potentially could cause in the future. Just about everyone on this list has been to university. Not long ago, a college education was essentially a death warrant in Cambodia. Prior to that, a degree was considered a good thing there. People saw no reason to hid the fact that they had been in school. Trouble is, things changed.
Oh, come on. That could never happen here. -- Forward complaints to : European Association of Envelope Manufactures Finger for Public Key Gutenbergstrasse 21;Postfach;CH-3001;Bern Vote Monarchist Switzerland
Black Unicorn wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
The problem with having a whole lot of private information about you floating around in public is not what damage it can do to you now, but rather the problems it potentially could cause in the future. Just about everyone on this list has been to university. Not long ago, a college education was essentially a death warrant in Cambodia....
Oh, come on. That could never happen here.
[Where is "here" for every list member?] Not bloody likely, no, but Mr. Kasczynski or the Symbionese Liberation Army could take a disliking to you for similar reasons. And you never know where you might travel. I've got a journalist friend who's paranoid about appearing at any political event because she's afraid she won't be allowed back into China or Southeast Asia if it comes out that she gives a damn about human rights. A seasonal haiku, original author unknown: Open your present No, you open your present Kasczynski Christmas -rich
Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
Any number of celebrities have been stalked, attacked and even killed by obsessed fans who found them through public records.
Sandy should learn some English.
The US Post Office co-operated in the identification and imprisonment of people of Japanese ancestry during the second world war.
Sandy doesn't see the difference between the Post Office and the Census Bureau. Sandy is a typical cypherpunk, one of John Gilmore's brainless stormtroopers. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
participants (6)
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Black Unicorn -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
nobody＠huge.cajones.com -
Rich Graves -
Sandy Sandfort -
Thomas C. Allard