Tim's and Michael's exchanges (with others) are most welcome, and constructively return us again to the most compelling aspect of the encryption debate, the contest between law and technology, one that has impact far beyond cryptography. There are examples of the application of law to control of technology in the President's most recent update of "The National Emergency Caused by the Lapse of the Export Administration Act of 1979": http://jya.com/hd105-191.htm It recounts the activities of the Commerce Department -- mainly BXA -- for the latest 6-month reporting period, and lists as well the cases of penalties imposed for export violations. Some of these have been imposed for alleged violations over 6 years past. They exemplify what Tim and Michael are discussing of the various ways the regulations and laws are imposed according to policy shifts and wind direction of politicians. The report describes the beef up of BXA enforcement programs, and increasing coordination with and training of other countries for export enforcement. All justified by a "national emergency" for which the underlying law to control technology long ago lapsed. The lapse appears to be a deliberate way to avoid having to define ahead of time what technology is to be controlled in order that ad hoc policy and regulations can be devised to fit, deal by deal. This parallels the increase in indecipherable grand jury proceedings, plea bargainings and parole conditions, determined by protected government employees. These, to be sure, appear to be close cousins of the bloated features of legacy technologies, civilian and military. It worth noting that Microsoft and the Justice Department are perfect twins of technology and law monopolies, using brute force and contracts to get their way, both clothed in self-righteousness and both led by charming weirdos, both totally obsessed with each their own mad view of law and technology in the "public interest." Still, there's some public benefit that these disputes are white collar and not homicidal/suicidal battles of NBC warfare, at least not yet here at home.