Jim Burnes - Denver wrote: On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Soren wrote:

There is a real live example of this kind of transition.  New Zealand.

much interesting info deleted What kind of constitution and bill of rights does New Zealand have? Check  this out.   Do I have the right of gun ownership to protect myself or stop tyrannical takeover? That's very funny.  The US, the country that allows most gun ownership (in the 1st world), is the most in need of that right to defend against both illegal and legal criminals. So much for the value of the 2nd amendment. To answer your question though, yes you have the right to buy a gun, just as you have the right to buy a car (a far more lethal instrument in general). You are held to account for what you do with it however (irrespective of whether its a gun or car).  If you kill someone, then you are generally arrested and tried for either murder or manslaughter. Manslaughter is the usual charge if you shoot someone who was threatening to kill you. It all depends on how successful they were in the attempt. Several cases of pissed off people shooting neighbours who were merely harassing them, and getting acquitted of any charges, exist.  Something like 10 murders a year and climbing (fueled by the gangsta rap lovers amongst the maori, mostly. Thank you USA!!). When most violent crime is of the form of being beaten up in a bar, or surprizing a burglar and getting threatened with a club or knife, responding with lethal force is considered not to be very sporting. Hand guns are rare, but there are hand gun clubs.  Seems a lot like a waste of energy to me, preparing for an event that is very unlikely to occur in your lifetime.  Most gun owners are hunters, shooting pig, deer, possums, elk .... Permits are not required. Bow hunting is also quite popular. New Zealand is a parliamentary democracy in the english tradition, with only one house. Recently, MMP (similar to Germany's) system of representation, was passed by referendum. This means that any candidate and/or party that gets 5% of a popular vote, gets a seat in the parliament. The more 5%s you get, the more seats.  Each citizen gets 2 votes.  One for a candidate, and one for a party.  There are currently 6(ish) major political parties.  Under MMP, proportional representation means that the the elected candidates have to form a coalition government. I.e. they all get together and make/break friendships until a clear winner/majority is declared (a very public process). If a clear winner cannot be found, another election is held until something gells. Once that happens, the majority coalition designates a 'prime' minister and a cabinet of ministers, to call the shots.  This is very unlike a presidential executive, in that these ministers are, in effect, hired by the coalition government and not directly elected to office.  Prime ministers do not have to get impeached to remove them from office.  If the majority coalition gets P.O'ed with any minister's track record, he gets fired.  If the population gets P.O'ed with the winning coalition, the coalitions will change to form a new government and new cabinet, to suit the mood(swing) of the populace. This is a very adversarial system for a government to operate under.  There are virtually no bi(multi-)partisan activities (the last was the economic revolution in 1986).  Generally, the opposition is always angling to destabilize the current majority coalition, with lots of rhetoric flying in the press. Consequently, the majority coalition has to keep on their toes and please the population.  Sometimes this leads to some skullduggery and dishonest activities.  The population (and press) have exactly zero tolerance for crooked politicians.  Typically, a Member of Parliament who gets out of line, is out of office within the month, often the week. Ergo, no real need for guns when you have a government that can be dissolved at any time by either a new majority being formed, or the population calling for an election.  Unpopular laws are generally ignored, or become the cause for a new election. This happens on a regular basis. I always had a sneaking suspicion that basing the US republic on the roman model, was not such a good idea.  Look what happened to them.  (Hail Clinton!, long live the emperor! Only until the present emergency lasts, honest! Those huns (drug dealers) and vandals (terrorists) have to be defeated first). Its hard to compare, how NZ's system works in practise, with the self-aggrandizing and self-important poll-doll system in the US (bread and circuses).  Mostly politicians in NZ are the guys who live next door, and who you go fishing with.  They all have a distaste for overinflated egos.  This is deeply ingrained in the national psyche, often to a fault (tall poppy syndrome).  It is a nation of fiercely rugged individualism (even at its collectivist height in the 1970s).  You are still considered to be a wuss if you didn't build your own home, or don't fix your own car or computer (or write your own crypto?), or have your own business, although this is changing under the onslaught of US cultural imperialism and hamburger diplomacy. As it's an island nation, 1 in 5 people has a boat, and generally use it to go fishing.  Again, no permits necessary. A lot of people also build their own boats, although this is changing ...  I suppose the closest comparison in the US, would be to think of it as a cross between Alaska and Hawaii. Hope that answers your questions.  You should look around the NZ web sites for more detail, or better yet, take a month or two and go and check it out.  Christmas is fast approaching, which is the start of summer and the holiday season, all rolled into one.