As long as we're on the subject of recommending books ... a great one is Milton Mayer's "They Thought They Were Free", interviews with ten Germans post-war. The title pretty much sums it up. Mayer was an excellent writer and journalist. The book is hard to find. title: "they thought they were free: the germans, 1933-45" author: milton mayer University of Chicago Press, 1955 ISBN 0-226-51190-1 (cloth) ISBN 0-226-51192-8 (paper) Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 55-5137 One quote at the beginning of the book: The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself "God, I thank Thee, that I am not as other men are." Here's hoping cypherpunks don't start echoing that sentiment ... Marianne