Re: The Telcos oppose Oxley
At 13:23 -0700 9/24/97, Lizard wrote:
At 09:47 PM 9/24/97 +0200, Peter Herngaard wrote:
They support the penalty enhancement for use of encryption in futherance of a felony.
I don't find this particularly offensive, on the grounds that if you're convicted of any given crime, the government can more-or-less drum up so many related charges they can put you away for 500 years ANYWAY, so what difference does it make?
Lizard's position is sadly incoherent. If he believes in civil
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 06:32 PM 9/24/97 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: liberties --
and I know he does -- then he should think twice. Just because the federal government has broad powers doesn't mean we should give them more.
<shrug> Rather, my position is that the system is ALREADY hopelessly corrupt and imbalanced;altering the letter of the law to say '20 years' as opposed to '10 years' FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE A CRIME AT ALL is irrelevant. The government can just as easily create two trumped-up ten year charges as it can one 20 year charge;'law' and 'justice' have nothing to do with one another anymore. The whole concept of criminilizing the use of crpytography is offensive;the exact specifics -- 10 years or 20 years -- are pretty much the same. Though, on second thought, there is a serious issue with it -- if, as we hope, encryption becomes widespread, than anyone doing anything will be using it;including 'in the commission of a crime'. This could make petty misdemeanors into 20 year federal crimes, and THAT is something to worry about. Hm. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNCm7HjKf8mIpTvjWEQL6ywCgrLu61z4DOjcIgboX8wJPZaKxHE4An2yH QzcO/ZeobOWzOnhM5CxeULp4 =pwGM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 7:31 PM -0700 9/24/97, Robert A. Costner wrote:
In Georgia the presence of a beeper is synonymous with drug sales. At least with law enforcement agencies. Probationers and parolees are not
In Silicon Valley, the presence of a beeper is synomynous with one being a technician or someone similar. To keep the furnaces running, or whatever. (Real Executives (TM), of course do not carry beepers.) It appears we live on different planets. Further evidence that not only should we allow Georgia secede, we should kick them out. All the more reason for the Bill of Rights to be scrupulously adhered to. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
At 07:18 PM 09/24/1997 -0700, Tim May wrote:
I think it was Bill Stewart who recently described all the various minor crimes which will likely soon involve crypto, things like calling for a hooker on a phone that has crypto in it, using a Metricom Ricochet wireless system to send banned words to a foreigner, and so on. All kinds of minor crimes suddenly have 10- and 20-year sentences attached.
I've been using "Jaywalking while talking on a digital cellphone", but also things like "Cheating on your taxes with PGP on your computer"... We came up with a bunch more at the recent Cypherpunks meeting. So many of the extra-penalty laws are bogus; one classic abuse was a guy in New York who was charged with "illegal possession of a linoleum knife". Now, possession of linoleum knives is perfectly legal, even without a flooring-installer's license. _This_ knife became illegal when he allegedly stabbed his girlfriend with it, at which point he could - keep the knife (illegal possession of a previously non-illegal object) - get rid of it (illegal obstruction of justice), or - turn it in at police station (good start on an insanity defense...) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, stewarts@ix.netcom.com Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
At 7:18 PM -0700 9/24/97, Tim May wrote:
The good news today is that if Salomon keeps to his word, the Security and Fascism Through Escrow Act is dead, dead, dead.
Even if he doesn't, I don't think Clinton will sign it (in its present, export enabling, criminal sentence enhancing) form. The scary thing is that <sarcasm> great lover of the technology industry and the Bill of Rights </sarcasm) Senator Finestein will pass a bill in Oxley form through the senate, and the bill that goes to Clinton will be written in the conference committee. It's as scary as letting the congresscritters hold a constitutional convention. [My spell checker gave me the option of "Replace" for "Finestein". I was tempted.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Internal surveillance | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | helped make the USSR the | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | nation it is today. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
participants (4)
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Bill Frantz -
Bill Stewart -
Lizard -
Tim May