Any talk of limiting _existing_ crypto?
OK, so the imminent legislation will ban sale or distribution unescrowed crypto products after 1999 or 2000 or whatever. Exact details unclear. But I see no language declaring existing products to be contraband. (Though such language could still come, of course...nothing would surprised me at this point.) So, what about Alice and Bob using PGP 5.0 or Explorer with S-MIME, or whatever. Plenty of crypto already out there. They can drop their encrypted text into whatever mail program or browser they're using. If existing crypto is fully legal to use, then it could be years and years before the Freeh-Reno-SAFE outlawing has any significant effect. Is there any reasonable interpretation of any of the SAFE or Pro-CODE bills that could make it illegal to use preexisting crypto programs (before the ban)? Any way they could make it illegal to use PGP or Lotus Notes or whatever in conjunction with a mailer or browser? If not, then our strategy should be to get the simpler, text-centric, crypto programs massively and widely deployed. Spend the year or so we have before D-Day getting crypto onto every CD-ROM being distributed, every public domain site, etc. (An old strategy, and one great progress has been made on. But now we have to really go into high gear, to _really_ get crypto widely deployed.) Integration with mailers and browsers may not even be such a good idea, as the evolution of such products will cause obsolescence. Better, perhaps, to leave the crypto at the "text edit" level, the ASCII level, where it can be dropped in cleanly to whatever program is current. (Also an old strategy, one with many advantages.) The war criminals in Washington will have a real hard time rounding up the crypto deployed between now and D-Day. Fucking criminals. Fight the _real_ criminals. Nuke em til they glow. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May <tcmay@got.net> writes:
If existing crypto is fully legal to use, then it could be years and years before the Freeh-Reno-SAFE outlawing has any significant effect.
Indeed. How about existing software with decades of previous existence that has hooks where crypto can be plugged in with fairly trivial effort?
Is there any reasonable interpretation of any of the SAFE or Pro-CODE bills that could make it illegal to use preexisting crypto programs ...
If not, then our strategy should be to get the simpler, text-centric, crypto programs massively and widely deployed. Spend the year or so we have before D-Day getting crypto onto every CD-ROM being distributed, every public domain site, etc.
We (the XEmacs developers, but I write only for myself as XEmacs maintainer) already distribute mailcrypt (Emacs lisp code to integrate PGP with mailers and newsreaders implemented in Emacs lisp). It has been possible to integrate encrypted editing with encryption of the user's choice transparently for some time.
Better, perhaps, to leave the crypto at the "text edit" level, the ASCII level, where it can be dropped in cleanly to whatever program is current. (Also an old strategy, one with many advantages.)
I agree. An Emacs-like architecture makes implementing something like this pretty straight-forward.
:: Anon-To: cypherpunks@toad.com Tim May wrote:
Is there any reasonable interpretation of any of the SAFE or Pro-CODE bills that could make it illegal to use preexisting crypto programs (before the ban)?
Govt doesn't need to use a reasonable interpretation. They tell you what you can and can't do--the judge areees with them--ten years later the Supremes tell you to go ahead and use it but it no longer runs on any of the machines in existence.
Any way they could make it illegal to use PGP or Lotus Notes or whatever in conjunction with a mailer or browser?
Yes. They declare it to be so.
If not, then our strategy should be to get the simpler, text-centric, crypto programs massively and widely deployed. Spend the year or so we have before D-Day getting crypto onto every CD-ROM being distributed, every public domain site, etc. Integration with mailers and browsers may not even be such a good idea, as the evolution of such products will cause obsolescence. Better, perhaps, to leave the crypto at the "text edit" level, the ASCII level, where it can be dropped in cleanly to whatever program is current. (Also an old strategy, one with many advantages.)
Make it work simply for everyone with the push of a single button. It doesn't have to be secure, it has to be convenient. The only thing the masses need is the illusion of security. Then they will cry loudly when someone tries to take it away. Make it so that those who want strong security can jump through the necessary hoops to get it from the same program so that they can't take away yours and leave them with theirs.
The war criminals in Washington will have a real hard time rounding up the crypto deployed between now and D-Day.
Strong encryption, officer? Yes, my Bouncing Betty Security Disk is right there in the top drawer. I'll just step back here a little and let you go get it. Dave Null
Actually, the legislation will ban sale of nonescrowed crypto immediately upon passage. As for existing products, no such proposal in draft form... yet... But if people can use old non-GAK'd crypto, won't terrorists still us it? The logical conclusion of the FBI's argument is to ban non-GAK'd crypto outright. I asked Sen. Kyl, Arizona Republican, why he didn't do this. His response? He didn't have the votes. At least two months ago. -Declan On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Tim May wrote:
OK, so the imminent legislation will ban sale or distribution unescrowed crypto products after 1999 or 2000 or whatever. Exact details unclear. But I see no language declaring existing products to be contraband. (Though such language could still come, of course...nothing would surprised me at this point.)
So, what about Alice and Bob using PGP 5.0 or Explorer with S-MIME, or whatever. Plenty of crypto already out there. They can drop their encrypted text into whatever mail program or browser they're using.
If existing crypto is fully legal to use, then it could be years and years before the Freeh-Reno-SAFE outlawing has any significant effect.
Is there any reasonable interpretation of any of the SAFE or Pro-CODE bills that could make it illegal to use preexisting crypto programs (before the ban)? Any way they could make it illegal to use PGP or Lotus Notes or whatever in conjunction with a mailer or browser?
If not, then our strategy should be to get the simpler, text-centric, crypto programs massively and widely deployed. Spend the year or so we have before D-Day getting crypto onto every CD-ROM being distributed, every public domain site, etc.
(An old strategy, and one great progress has been made on. But now we have to really go into high gear, to _really_ get crypto widely deployed.)
Integration with mailers and browsers may not even be such a good idea, as the evolution of such products will cause obsolescence. Better, perhaps, to leave the crypto at the "text edit" level, the ASCII level, where it can be dropped in cleanly to whatever program is current. (Also an old strategy, one with many advantages.)
The war criminals in Washington will have a real hard time rounding up the crypto deployed between now and D-Day.
Fucking criminals. Fight the _real_ criminals. Nuke em til they glow.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
participants (4)
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Dave Null -
Declan McCullagh -
SL Baur -
Tim May