Re: Credentials without Identity--Race Bits
At 12:38 PM 12/11/96 -0800, "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net> wrote:
Consider a "race credential" offered by some entity. .. (Why some groups might want this is left as an exercise for the reader. Perhaps a less-inflammatory example (to some of the sensitive amongst you) might be that some women want to interact in "women only" forums--a clear case of discrimination, no?--and may want a "gender bit" avaiable to display as a credential.)
I've already tried to subscribe to a forum (at the liberal Utne reader!) where I was rejected because they currently had more subscribers who identified themselves as "male" than as "female", and they wanted to maintain a balance. And certainly "US Citizens Only" sites are common - nationalism is just as ugly and stupid as racism, and far more likely to be enforced with ID requirements; I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street or fly on airplanes. Another problem is that "nationalist credentials" made hide other data, such as a race bit, a Jewish bit, a don't-ask-out-loud-don't-tell bit, a suspected-Commie bit, a check-FBI-files-first bit, etc. The subliminal channels in DSS are the best known method for doing this, but it's probably possible to do something similar even using blind signatures, especially if there are multiple keys or timestamp fields. For example, they could use different signature keys that are supposedly just "signed at the New York/LA/Langley/Holtsville/SF/DC office" or "signed 4/1/97 4:20pm". # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
Bill Stewart wrote:
I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street or fly on airplanes.
Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own safety, of course. -- Vangelis <vangelis@qnis.net> /\oo/\ Finger for public key. PGP KeyID 1024/A558B025 PGP Fingerprint AE E0 BE 68 EE 7B CF 04 02 97 02 86 F0 C7 69 25 Life is my religion, the world is my altar.
Vangelis wrote: | Bill Stewart wrote: | > I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually | > required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street | > or fly on airplanes. | Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - | against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own | safety, of course. Yep. Sucseeded, twice. Once, having made jokes about smuggling cocaine. Given the poor state of FAA modelling of their threat, I'm not going to discuss the loopholes that I found, since the FAA will simply close them, without bothering to wonder about the security implications. I will note that you can't get on board with checked luggage, and also note that the rules are probably subject to a FOIA request. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Vangelis wrote:
Bill Stewart wrote:
I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street or fly on airplanes.
Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own safety, of course.
You beat me to it. Anyone have the current black-letter regulations? I'll have some time to kill over the holidays that might as well be used for civil disobedience. What's likely to happen to me if I refuse to show ID? Provide invalid ID, don't get caught, then publicize the fact? Provide invalid ID and get caught? Or, better: "My wallet was stolen. The only ID I have on me is my ACLU membership card and my PGP key. Can I still get on the plane?" I'm serious. Short domestic flight, no pressing appointments. This could be fun. - -rich - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMrr2LyoZzwIn1bdtAQFNVAGAsm79cKZ0T3DZQuV7l13w86WTIu0aVlyh 1JhPsiBCw0iw6+n6zsPzbawaRXR43X39 =BhS6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Vangelis <vangelis@pnis.net> writes:
Bill Stewart wrote:
I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street or fly on airplanes.
Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own safety, of course.
It's funny that this particulae piece of fascist regulation was imposed by the Klintons after the TWA 800 crash. Now the most likely reasons for the crash are supposedly a mechanical failure or a U.S.missile - not any terrorists. But once the fascists gain some ground, they don't give it back. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own safety, of course.
It's funny that this particulae piece of fascist regulation was imposed by the Klintons after the TWA 800 crash. Now the most likely reasons for
Um, not it wasn't. Not that I wouldn't put it past them, but I read a 1st-hand account of someone having this problem months before TWA 800 took a bath. -- Vangelis <vangelis@qnis.net> /\oo/\ Finger for public key. PGP KeyID 1024/A558B025 PGP Fingerprint AE E0 BE 68 EE 7B CF 04 02 97 02 86 F0 C7 69 25 Life is my religion, the world is my altar.
Vangelis <vangelis@qnis.net> writes:
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own safety, of course.
It's funny that this particulae piece of fascist regulation was imposed by the Klintons after the TWA 800 crash. Now the most likely reasons for
Um, not it wasn't. Not that I wouldn't put it past them, but I read a 1st-hand account of someone having this problem months before TWA 800 took a bath.
Yes it was. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
At 5:28 AM -0800 12/20/96, Adam Shostack wrote:
Vangelis wrote: | Bill Stewart wrote: | > I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually | > required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street | > or fly on airplanes.
| Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - | against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own | safety, of course.
Yep. Sucseeded, twice. Once, having made jokes about smuggling cocaine.
A question for agent Kallestrom (sp?): If TWA800 went down due to mechanical failure (a spark blowing up the fuselage fuel tank), do we get our freedoms back? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | I still read when I should | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | be doing something else. | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | It's a vice. - R. Heinlein | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
Carl Johnson wrote:
Rich Graves wrote:
"My wallet was stolen. The only ID I have on me is my ACLU membership card and my PGP key. Can I still get on the plane?"
Rich, How about, "I have copies of the eMail I sent, as 'fuck@yourself.up, can I still get on the plane?" Let's hope that the security guard is a CypherPunk. Maybe he'll let him 'off' the plane at 30,000 feet. - Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca "There's only one two."
-- Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca "There's only one two."
At 1:22 AM -0800 12/20/96, Vangelis wrote:
Bill Stewart wrote:
I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street or fly on airplanes.
Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own safety, of course.
At the risk of undercutting Bill's facetiousness, this was of course precisely his point. (Note: To a lot of us, even seeing the English form "I've heard that in less civilized countries...." is almost a direct cue that a facetious (tongue in cheek, ironic, etc.) remark is about to follow.) I've heard that in less civilized countries, the same cues for irony may not be widely known. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
"Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net> writes:
(Note: To a lot of us, even seeing the English form "I've heard that in less civilized countries...." is almost a direct cue that a facetious (tongue in cheek, ironic, etc.) remark is about to follow.)
I've heard that in less civilized countries, the same cues for irony may not be widely known.
Why is the fascist United State of America considered a "civilized country"? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
Bill Stewart wrote:
I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street or fly on airplanes.
Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately? Doesn't work - against policy. Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own safety, of course.
Flew down to LA recently with a firearm (checked, of course). Looking over the ticket later, I was mildly surprised to find "GUN" in a string of otherwise unintelligible text. Anyone know if this is they way it's been, or if this is YA "Anti-terrorism security measure"? Goes without saying that this data would most likely wind up as part of the "travel profiles" the gov't wants to compile. Could they be starting early? The carrier was Alaska Airlines, if it matters. As far as the photo-id went, they didn't copy any data off it or try to authenticate, just made sure it was my picture.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In list.cypherpunks, aaron@herringn.com writes:
Flew down to LA recently with a firearm (checked, of course).
Looking over the ticket later, I was mildly surprised to find "GUN" in a string of otherwise unintelligible text.
Probably a coincidence. The last time I flew with a checked gun was 1980. Back then, they just asked you to declare it. In fact, I forgot to declare it in Seattle, and in a fit of concience told a ticket agent. Whereupon I was given a most nifty tour of the bowels of Sea-Tac to show an agent that the piece wasn't loaded and that there was no ammo in the same bag. Ah, the good old days...
The carrier was Alaska Airlines, if it matters.
I've flown tens of thousands of miles on Alaska Airlines... they were always very mellow about things other airlines seemed tense about.
As far as the photo-id went, they didn't copy any data off it or try to authenticate, just made sure it was my picture.
One more quick anecdote: Back in January, I happened to be "between picture id's" and needed to fly. I showed a 2 year expired Alaska driver license. The clerk had a tough time finding the DL number (I had to show him where it was), but didn't even notice the expiration date. He did copy the DL number into his terminal, though. - -- Roy M. Silvernail [ ] roy@scytale.com DNRC Minister Plenipotentiary of All Things Confusing, Software Division PGP Public Key fingerprint = 31 86 EC B9 DB 76 A7 54 13 0B 6A 6B CC 09 18 B6 Key available from pubkey@scytale.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMruBQBvikii9febJAQGl+gP+LhOd+D6o+e8wwyLVncNuk7FMkbOjCxjF OS4ifNLCOwPrMnZySfGOinMdf+bmEzC1vdBjHmw0oqEr4A3P2uMZtayrj07Y2MBG phzc+HuNgXrs7I4qXP5WFq50ZJVQpS/4sPwlbND/oF5HwxWql/JwnOIuyTIwR/Rd HL4SBUoPWqU= =RnxJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (11)
-
aaron＠herringn.com -
Adam Shostack -
Bill Frantz -
Bill Stewart -
Carl Johnson -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Rich Graves -
roy＠sendai.scytale.com -
Timothy C. May -
Vangelis -
Vangelis