Return address forgery [was Judge Kozinski...]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks@toad.com Date: Fri Nov 08 20:20:02 1996 The Bovine remailer wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Bill Frantz wrote:
At 4:39 AM 11/6/96 -0500, Jim Ray wrote:
Judge Kozinski wrote:
... Perhaps the answer is that the post office should not accept mail unless there is a clear indication of who the sender is
[...]
In the case of postal mail, return address forgery is so easy
[...]
Yes the failure to forsee this did stand out a little in the discourse :).
Well, in the judge's defense, note that he used the word "perhaps" above. I like this judge, which (obviously) isn't something I can say about too many judges...I think he was just trying to sharpen our thoughts and arguments, and that he DOES agree with us on many, many things. His fears about the misuse of anonymity in a police state, for example, come from his personal experience in a former socialist paradise. I think (hope) that being exposed to "cypherpunk issues" by as many good thinkers as he was, in a relaxed, non-courtroom setting, has broadened his understanding of the many issues involved and will help "our" side immensely if these same issues ever do come before him. I have decided, however, to cease my very enjoyable conversation with him about these issues, from now until after Judge Patel's Bernstein case has been decided and appealed, because of this very possibility. I am already concerned that an ambitious U.S. Attorney, using Alta Vista, could attempt to argue that "cypherpunk terrorists have been secretly trying to subtly influence Kozinski's thinking, and that therefore he should be removed from the case in favor of some judge who has no clue whatsoever about the 'Net, encryption, anonymous remailers, etc." [I am sure the argument wouldn't be put quite that way <g> but that's what the U.S. Attorney would mean.] There is now a judge with some idea of these issues who will IMNSHO probably be fair to "our" side. It is a rare opportunity, and I don't want to "blow it." JMR Please note new 2000bit PGPkey & new address <jmr@shopmiami.com> This key will be valid through election day 2000. PGP id.A7D63DA9 98 1F 39 BA 93 86 B4 F5 57 52 64 0E DA BA 2C 71 Please avoid using old 1024bit PGPkey E9BD6D35 anymore. Thanks. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEPAwUBMoPcRjUhsGSn1j2pAQHtVAfPd+F3jXHov9TgaZJSsKNcfi0dn30K9Dgs 2PQwFFLp8UuHFQGybBdorw4V9DQuGTehLVuiBttKdbBZYWVMhWv/TptZ+sagbexO EX0TrcD8gU3dtSK9xLH94TO8YMY5U/sk/8LIC1Q4cehXiZ3MOK/yxxR7V8uooJuI 6g4+HSxUOU2CBPIfYyHjzALxYkjn2/YYjo8VdFbxE7fRnjycnvr+qn2l70az4nnx E2l9qvXJYgNiEhSQVk4o3b+hlybCuFA1jtNLnkHa1qYQz2xP7xoF6QiDcscl4Jev HVQfUg52JyxS6DxsZ8K9/64aUlJWAXZYZbg4bn80OV4ETg== =gQWe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 8:20 AM -0500 11/8/96, Jim Ray wrote:
been decided and appealed, because of this very possibility. I am already concerned that an ambitious U.S. Attorney, using Alta Vista, could attempt to argue that "cypherpunk terrorists have been secretly trying to subtly influence Kozinski's thinking, and that therefore he should be removed from the case in favor of some judge who has no clue whatsoever about the 'Net, encryption, anonymous remailers, etc." [I am sure the argument wouldn't be put quite that way <g> but that's what the U.S. Attorney would mean.] There is now a judge with some idea of these issues who will IMNSHO probably be fair to "our" side. It is a rare opportunity, and I don't want to "blow it."
A valid fear, given the times we live in. If jurors can be dismissed for knowing "too much" about the O,J. case--knowing how to _read_ ensures this--then we are probably fast-approaching the point where judges are recused (or whatever the word is) from hearing cases where they've had any education whatsover on. (An exaggeration, of course.) In any case, I don't think trying to influence the thinking of one of the thousands of local judges is an efficient use of our time. Jim may enjoy it, which is fine, but this is why I never took even a millisecond to write a special essay for Judge Kozinski. I place more faith in seeing the fundamental ground truth changed, via technology. --Tim May "The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology." [NYT, 1996-10-02] We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Timothy C. May wrote:
At 8:20 AM -0500 11/8/96, Jim Ray wrote:
been decided and appealed, because of this very possibility. I am already concerned that an ambitious U.S. Attorney, using Alta Vista, could attempt to argue that "cypherpunk terrorists have been secretly trying to subtly influence Kozinski's thinking, and that therefore he should be removed from the case in favor of some judge who has no clue whatsoever about the 'Net, encryption, anonymous remailers, etc." [I am sure the argument wouldn't be put quite that way <g> but that's what the U.S. Attorney would mean.] There is now a judge with some idea of these issues who will IMNSHO probably be fair to "our" side. It is a rare opportunity, and I don't want to "blow it."
If jurors can be dismissed for knowing "too much" about the O,J. case--knowing how to _read_ ensures this--then we are probably fast-approaching the point where judges are recused (or whatever the word is) from hearing cases where they've had any education whatsover on.
Maybe people should worry about how judges are *not* excused in certain cases. The early word on the street was that the Japanese mob did Ron & Nicole, and *both* judges look suspiciously like people who might want to *contain* certain information.
participants (3)
-
Dale Thorn -
Jim Ray -
Timothy C. May