Re: PRESS RELEASE: GERMANY CENSORS DUTCH WEBSITE WWW.XS4ALL.NL
At 8:18 AM 9/6/96, tank wrote:
Please forward:
* * * P R E S S R E L E A S E * * *
GERMANY CENSORS DUTCH WEBSITE WWW.XS4ALL.NL, WITH 3100 WEBPAGES
German internetproviders, joined in the Internet Content Taskforce (ICTF), started censoring the Dutch website www.xs4all.nl, containing 3100 personal and commercial homepages. This act of censorship is caused by the webpage of a magazine that is banned in Germany, Radikal (http://www.xs4all.nl/ ~tank/radikal/).
... Though my German friends will perhaps feel I am picking on them, this is not so (this week Germany is in the hot seat, last week it was Singapore....). A Modest Proposal: * as Germany is bent on blocking sites which carry this subversive pamphlet, "Radikal," let us mirror it on thousands of sites around the world. * when the Germans went into Danmark and insisted Jews wear badges, ordinary citizens (and the Danish Royal Family, as I recall) also took to wearing these Star of David badges. * wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if the "Free Speech Blue Ribbon" now attached to so many pages were to be joined by a "Star of David"? This Star of David symbol could mean "We support freedom to read, and our site contains the "Radikal" publication which Germans are forbidden to access." (I know nothing of how such symbolic campaigns are actually launched and managed, so I'm suggesting the hint of an idea. I do think mirroring the banned publication (_any_ banned publication, by _any_ government) on as many sites as possible is a Good Idea.) --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Though my German friends will perhaps feel I am picking on them, this is not so (this week Germany is in the hot seat, last week it was Singapore....).
...the week before it was china.
* as Germany is bent on blocking sites which carry this subversive pamphlet, "Radikal," let us mirror it on thousands of sites around the world.
yes, please do.
* wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if the "Free Speech Blue Ribbon" now attached to so many pages were to be joined by a "Star of David"? This Star of David symbol could mean "We support freedom to read, and our site contains the "Radikal" publication which Germans are forbidden to access."
no, please don't. there are millions of germans besides bundesanwaltschaft. rolf -- ----------------------------------------- Rolf Weber <weber@iez.com> | All I ask is a chance IEZ AG D-64625 Bensheim | to prove that money ++49-6251-1309-109 | can't make me happy.
! At 8:18 AM 9/6/96, tank wrote: ! >Please forward: ! ! > * * * P R E S S R E L E A S E * * * ! > ! > ! >GERMANY CENSORS DUTCH WEBSITE WWW.XS4ALL.NL, WITH 3100 WEBPAGES ! > ! > ! >German internetproviders, joined in the Internet Content Taskforce ! >(ICTF), started censoring the Dutch website www.xs4all.nl, containing ! >3100 personal and commercial homepages. This act of censorship is ! >caused by the webpage of a magazine that is banned in Germany, Radikal ! >(http://www.xs4all.nl/ ~tank/radikal/). ! ... ! ! Though my German friends will perhaps feel I am picking on them, this is ! not so (this week Germany is in the hot seat, last week it was ! Singapore....). ! ! A Modest Proposal: ! ! * as Germany is bent on blocking sites which carry this subversive ! pamphlet, "Radikal," let us mirror it on thousands of sites around the ! world. ! ! * when the Germans went into Danmark and insisted Jews wear badges, ! ordinary citizens (and the Danish Royal Family, as I recall) also took to ! wearing these Star of David badges. ! ! * wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if the "Free Speech Blue Ribbon" now ! attached to so many pages were to be joined by a "Star of David"? This Star ! of David symbol could mean "We support freedom to read, and our site ! contains the "Radikal" publication which Germans are forbidden to access." ! ! (I know nothing of how such symbolic campaigns are actually launched and ! managed, so I'm suggesting the hint of an idea. I do think mirroring the ! banned publication (_any_ banned publication, by _any_ government) on as ! many sites as possible is a Good Idea.) Can someone post an uncensored copy here? That's a good start. I could repost Jolly Roger which I think I archived, or post something from Kurt Saxon in de.soc and soc.culture.german for a good start!
Timothy C. May wrote:
* as Germany is bent on blocking sites which carry this subversive pamphlet, "Radikal," let us mirror it on thousands of sites around the world.
Agreed - put them in a dilemna by getting mirrors on machines obviously important and useful to the Germans.
* when the Germans went into Danmark and insisted Jews wear badges, ordinary citizens (and the Danish Royal Family, as I recall) also took to wearing these Star of David badges.
Bad example. Jews living in Denmark were not required to wear yellow stars. The story about the Danish royal family wearing the stars is an urban legend, spread by the British to make the Danish King appear to be less of a coward after he fled to England. Gary -- "Of course the US Constitution isn't perfect; but it's a lot better than what we have now." -- Unknown. pub 1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22 Gary Howland <gary@systemics.com> Key fingerprint = 0C FB 60 61 4D 3B 24 7D 1C 89 1D BE 1F EE 09 06
Gosh, I'm not a German citizen, and don't even have a nickel's worth of german blood in my body, but who will be the first to add some real pretty pixtures and some snazzy ol' text adages to THEIR governments' web pages? Life needs more risk. If we ever EVER hope to establish any sort of DISestablishment, it only starts with us. Well, you. As I said, I'm not German (and quid pro quo, and stuff like that). ;) Millie sfuze@tiac.net PS: Why not mirror it on their own sites? ;) On Sat, 7 Sep 1996, Gary Howland wrote:
Timothy C. May wrote:
* as Germany is bent on blocking sites which carry this subversive pamphlet, "Radikal," let us mirror it on thousands of sites around the world.
Agreed - put them in a dilemna by getting mirrors on machines obviously important and useful to the Germans.
* when the Germans went into Danmark and insisted Jews wear badges, ordinary citizens (and the Danish Royal Family, as I recall) also took to wearing these Star of David badges.
Bad example. Jews living in Denmark were not required to wear yellow stars. The story about the Danish royal family wearing the stars is an urban legend, spread by the British to make the Danish King appear to be less of a coward after he fled to England.
Gary -- "Of course the US Constitution isn't perfect; but it's a lot better than what we have now." -- Unknown.
pub 1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22 Gary Howland <gary@systemics.com> Key fingerprint = 0C FB 60 61 4D 3B 24 7D 1C 89 1D BE 1F EE 09 06
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ? -stephan
Stephan Schmidt <schmidt@pin.de> writes:
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ?
http://www.terrorist.org ? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Stephan Schmidt <schmidt@pin.de> writes:
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ?
smoke:~> whois terrorist.org [rs.internic.net] Terrorist Organization (TERRORIST2-DOM) 1525 SW 14th #4 Portland, OR 97201 US Domain Name: TERRORIST.ORG Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact, Billing Contact: Sievert, Jerry (JS651) jerrys@E-Z.NET 360-260-1122 Record last updated on 26-Jun-96. Record created on 26-Jun-96. Domain servers in listed order: E-ZONE.E-Z.NET 205.240.28.1 NS1.IXA.NET 199.242.16.1 The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@smoke.suba.com
Stephan Schmidt wrote: | One thought : How many of you would support terrorist | web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ? I've given support to at least two terrorist organization, probably closer to five in the last year. I can't see supporting one more would do any more harm. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ?
-stephan
Consdering how none of the above incidents are connected in any way to the internet, what do you mean? And what if there were bomb making instructions on the internet and people are killed on account of it, so what? Mix roughly equal amounts of potassiam chlorate and red phosphorous together while thoroughly wet. When the mixture dries it becomes a fulminating highly explosive mixture that doesn't even contain a nitrogen molecule, so seventy pounds of the explosive can be brought onto an airplane by passing through the nitrogen bomb sniffers in luggage. You are now a potential terrorist Stephan Schmidt. If the anti-extremists had their way, you will be a top candidate for arrest for being a dangerous German, we all know that now, we can honestly testify in German court you openly subscribed to an internet high tech e-mailing list where terrorist secrets were being traded. How do you feel about being a terrorist, Mr. Schmidt?
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ?
-stephan
Consdering how none of the above incidents are connected in any way to the internet, what do you mean? And what if there were bomb making
Sorry for my bad English, perhaps I got misunderstood. Would you run a WWW site where the (say there where some) terrorist who shot down (a wild assumtion too) the TWA plane claiming it was right and all people should fight 'evil America'. Because of your web site there are other bomb attacks in the US (or somewhere else, the country is not that important) (although it's of course impossible to proove that this bombings are 'inspired' by your web site). Would you support the freedom of speech in this way ? And to those who misunderstood my posting: a. I support the freedom of speech. b. I'm not shure I can support freedom of speech in ALL circumstances. c. I wanted to know what other people in this mailing list thought. Would they support freedom of speech for everyone ? Under all circumstances ? (I hope you got my point of view now) d. I think (hope) I'm a cypherpunk. e. Don't mistake my opinion with the opinion of the German Government, which I tried to make clear (I would be the last to support the German Government.) -stephan
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ?
-stephan
Consdering how none of the above incidents are connected in any way to the internet, what do you mean? And what if there were bomb making
Sorry for my bad English, perhaps I got misunderstood. Would you run a WWW site where the (say there where some) terrorist who shot down (a wild assumtion too) the TWA plane claiming it was right and all people should fight 'evil America'. Because of your web site there are other bomb attacks in the US (or somewhere else, the country is not that important) (although it's of course impossible to proove that this bombings are 'inspired' by your web site). Would you support the freedom of speech in this way ?
Call me crazy, but maybe if "terrorists" had a web page to use to get out their particular message they wouldn't need to go out and blow things up to get noticed (well, except for the ones in it just for the sake of blowing things up).
And to those who misunderstood my posting: a. I support the freedom of speech. b. I'm not shure I can support freedom of speech in ALL circumstances.
Um, which one is it. --- Fletch __`'/| fletch@ain.bls.com "Lisa, in this house we obey the \ o.O' ______ 404 713-0414(w) Laws of Thermodynamics!" H. Simpson =(___)= -| Ack. | 404 315-7264(h) PGP Print: 8D8736A8FC59B2E6 8E675B341E378E43 U ------
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Stephan Schmidt wrote:
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ? -stephan Consdering how none of the above incidents are connected in any way to the internet, what do you mean? And what if there were bomb making Sorry for my bad English, perhaps I got misunderstood. Would you run a WWW site where the (say there where some) terrorist who shot down (a wild assumtion too) the TWA plane claiming it was right and all people should fight 'evil America'. Because of your web site there are other bomb attacks in the US (or somewhere else, the country is not that important) (although it's of course impossible to proove that this bombings are 'inspired' by your web site). Would you support the freedom of speech in this way ?
If they paid me to host the site, yes. If I agreed with their reasons or goals, I might even give them a discount. Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@smoke.suba.com
On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Stephan Schmidt wrote:
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ?
If Iran, the IRA, etc. wanted to pay me to host a web page that described their goals and methods, I would. I believe in free speach, and that means even if I disagree. Then again, the only reason I am not a terrorist is that the government hasn't YET defined hate speach directed against the government to be terrorism. Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@smoke.suba.com
snow <snow@smoke.suba.com> writes:
On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Stephan Schmidt wrote:
One thought : How many of you would support terrorist web server (say Oklahoma, TWA, Iran, Lybia, RAF, IRA, ...) ?
If Iran, the IRA, etc. wanted to pay me to host a web page that described their goals and methods, I would.
I believe in free speach, and that means even if I disagree.
Then again, the only reason I am not a terrorist is that the government hasn't YET defined hate speach directed against the government to be terrorism.
You're not talking about the fascist U.S. gubment, are you? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
Perhaps my connection is only disrupted accidently, but I can't access www.xs4all.nl from one account (the two others still work). IP tried : 194.109.6.100 SPG: What is the 'new' IP ? (I hope you don't think I'm a spy for the German Government :) Perhaps this time we have to proove that it's impossible to block an IP/Web site, so that all govs get a clue about who inet works. Hmm, some may claim it's better that the goverment thinks they sucessfully restricted the access to those pages. I think they should know what they can't do. -stephan
participants (11)
-
<pstira＠escape.com> -
Adam Shostack -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Gary Howland -
Mike Fletcher -
qut＠netcom.com -
Rolf Weber -
snow -
Stephan Schmidt -
tcmay＠got.net -
Troy Varange